PETER'S FIRST EPISTLE AS BEARING ON THE PRESENT MOMENT (3)
PETER’S FIRST EPISTLE AS BEARING ON THE PRESENT MOMENT (3)
JT I think the brethren will observe that this epistle is marked by certain salient subjects, some of lesser importance but the leading ones have been in mind throughout these readings. It is thought that we should continue on that principle. One thing that has not been observed in our remarks is the use of the article. It is not much employed, so that the things are characteristic rather than specific. As regards the present chapter it may be remarked that the subject at the outset is the family, or rather the household, although Peter does not enlarge on the word ‘household’ as to a man’s house; but he speaks of the personnel of a household, those who occupy the house or serve in it under God. The wife is first mentioned: “Likewise, wives, be subject to your own husbands” 1 Peter 3:1. No doubt the word “own” is not put in without a reason, so as to preclude any special influence of other husbands.
JRH Have you in mind what the Lord Jesus said to the woman in John 4:18, “he whom now thou hast is not thy husband”?
JT Quite so, he was not her own; and that helps greatly as to the subjects that John selects in connection with which the truth is made to stand. Here the household is brought in, involving the wife, lest she should become influenced by other husbands or in any way be diverted. She is to be attached to her own husband and be subject to him.
AR You have said in connection with that chapter (John 4) that moral matters must be settled first before you get the Spirit. She said to the Lord, “Give me this water, that I may not thirst nor come here to draw. Jesus says to her, Go, call thy husband, and come here” John 4:15,16.
JT Yes, “Go, call thy husband, and come here”; that is to be noticed. The Lord opened the subject with her involving the moral side of it by calling attention to the one whom she then had, who was not her husband.
AR Is that what is in mind in this chapter, that moral matters must be settled in the household?
JT That is the point at the beginning of the chapter, but the husbands, of course, are also mentioned.
Ques Would the reference to unconverted husbands apply also to unconverted wives?
JT I think whichever they may be, husbands or wives, they are in mind here; but of course these verses might be conveniently and instructively read in connection with the same truth as treated by Paul in the epistle to the Corinthians. He enlarges on the subject more than Peter does.
SMcC Would you say that, looking at the subject in a general way in regard to the dispensation, the feminine side has been largely lost sight of in the assembly because of other husbands which may have come up in the public setting of things?
JT Very good, a very searching remark. Of course another thing that has to be borne in mind is that in the larger part of the human race polygamy has a place; whereas in the realm of Japheth, that is to say in the western part of the world centering in the main in Rome, one man and one wife present the idea of marriage. Polygamy is not allowed in the West generally; but then there is, alas, much that is morally wrong that may be found even amongst the saints. That is the undue influence of husbands over other wives than their own.
Ques Is it noteworthy that in Luke’s gospel before Peter is chosen the Lord had touch with him in his household and in his business?
JT Yes; his wife’s mother was sick of a fever, which would mean that he was tested in the house, because the fever would tend to irritability. Then he was tested in his business too, and happily the truth is stated that he left all, a very fine statement as to persons in regard to their businesses, that one is ready to leave all, whatever it may be, and follow Jesus.
AR Was polygamy in principle working at Corinth? Paul says, “Each of you says I am of Paul, and I of Apollos, and I of Cephas, and I of Christ” 1 Corinthians 1:12. Men, other than Christ were engaging them at Corinth. Paul says, “I have espoused you unto one man, to present you a chaste virgin to Christ” 2 Corinthians 11:2. He transfers the affection all to Christ in the second epistle.
JT He does indeed: they were espoused spiritually, not literally in the ordinary sense; they were espoused spiritually to one Man, that is, to Christ, as a chaste virgin. But I do not just see why you bring in the many. The point was that he had espoused them to one Man and that, of course, would include not only the wives but the husbands too; that is to say the whole of the saints at Corinth were espoused spiritually to one Man, that is to Christ.
Ques Is this Peter’s way of doing what Paul was doing in 1 Corinthians, setting household matters right in view of assembly service?
JT I think that is the important point to begin with in this chapter, setting the household matters right; we have so much trouble among the saints because of these matters that are not adjusted.
FHL Would it be right to suggest that this great principle goes back to Genesis 3 where the lack of headship and lordship came to light in Eve? Eve failed in not referring to her husband when the test [p. 42] came.
JT She listened to the devil, you mean. Of course that is a very strong ease to bring forward because there were no other husbands at the time. It was a question of the devil; Satan came in to deceive her; “as the serpent deceived Eve”, the apostle says in 2 Corinthians 11:3. So that the whole of the saints were included in his remarks, that is to say, both husbands and wives; it was a question of their being espoused to one Man. It is a great point, but it really does not touch what we are dealing with here.
JHE Priscilla and Aquila filled this out perfectly.
JT Quite so, they are equally mentioned, showing that they were both right in their relations one to the other.
RWS The economic conditions under which we live sometimes involve husband and wife both working.
JT That is a great source of weakness. Of course it is common in the world; many wives take up employment. But it is a great weakness amongst the saints and if the wives do not need to work it really amounts to sin. If you have enough to support your family and you allow your wife to take on employment it amounts to sin, because it is exposing the woman to the devil.
Rem It leads to all kinds of other things.
Ques Does not the idea of independence sometimes underlie that position?
JT You mean the wife wanting money for herself? Quite so. Normally the husband ought to supply what is needed in the house.
WWM Titus says, “The young women to be attached to their husbands, to be attached to their children, discreet, chaste, diligent in home work, good, subject to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be evil spoken of” Titus 2:4,[p. 43] 5.
JT That is a good scripture to bring in at this point, because home work is used. That is not simply the work of a child going to school in learning his lessons, it is the work of the home. The woman’s responsibility in looking after the home is in mind, and attachment to her husband and her children.
CT Would Abraham and Sarah fit in with this thought? Sarah was inside but Abraham was on the outside.
JT Quite so. She has her place and she is mentioned here as an example for us.
ANW Is it not of value to see that the principle operates, or is expected to operate, even when there is poverty in the marital link, even with a disobedient husband or wife?
JT The chapter in 1 Corinthians ought to be read with this. It would help us. If we want to take on the subject more fully we should read 1 Corinthians 7, where we are told by the apostle as to what is better; so that we should be guided even by Paul’s own experience, his counsel as competent to speak even where he has no command from the Lord, as if God were to give importance to the experience of a brother in these matters. So that in such matters an elder brother ought to be consulted where he is available, because he is intended of God to help by his experience.
AAT If a sister has assembly exercises, should she consult her own husband or some other brother?
JT Her own husband first, by all means; but if there be one with greater experience, which Paul intimates as to himself, she should wisely perhaps consult the one who has the experience if he is an elder brother, because age has a great place in the government of the assembly.
Ques Would she first ask her own husband, and would that be likely to prompt things with [p. 44] him?
JT I think the lesson is given really in the general instruction, “Let them ask their own husbands at home” 1 Corinthians 14:35. That is a comely way to ask things.
AB Would the woman of worth in Proverbs 31 have the ability for filling this out? “The heart of her husband confideth in her” Proverbs 31:11.
JT Quite so, she is an example. Of course she rises to a type of the assembly, but at the same time the passage affords instruction as to ordinary matters too.
JWD If there is piety, will not God control the economic conditions for us?
JT Quite so, we can count on God surely; a very important thing, that we should learn to count on God for economic conditions and not to go outside of what is right in principle for the sake of adding to our capital or income. God may see fit to make it difficult for us, because we learn through such experiences to trust God, a very important lesson for every one of us, to learn to trust God.
Rem In detail.
JT Just so. So we have here, “Likewise, wives, be subject to your own husbands, that, even if any are disobedient to the word” — showing that the husband may be disobedient to the word; he might not even be a christian — “they may be gained without the word” — a remarkable thing — “by the conversation of the wives, having witnessed your pure conversation carried out in fear” 1 Peter 3:1,2. Then we are told as to adornment, as to dress. But it is a very striking thing that the influence of the wife may save the husband; he “may be gained without the word”, it says, as if the Scriptures are just left out and the wife is to take their place to gain the [p. 45] husband.
AR Did not Sarah do that in connection with Ishmael and his mother? God says, “in all that Sarah hath said to thee hearken to her voice” Genesis 21:12.
JT Showing that what the wife is saying might rise to the value of Scripture, as we know from Galatians it did in that case. It is called Scripture.
Rem Generally speaking if the wife is in subjection to her husband according to this passage, the husband would be more likely to listen to her if an occasion of that kind arose.
JT That is the point that Peter makes here. It is a matter that a wife should rightly have in her mind, whether she may gain her husband even without the Scriptures, even if he does not read the Scriptures or pray. She may through her quiet conversation gain him, showing that God has in mind that such a marriage is to be turned to account to the gaining of the husband.
CT Does Mr. Darby’s reference to the word ‘conversation’ — that it means ‘manner of life’ — have something to do with this thought?
JT Quite so, it is the kind of life that characterises such a woman.
Rem God honouring that means rather than the orthodox means of saving, because the ‘word’ would normally be used.
JT As if God is honouring the marriage relation to that effect.
SMcC Difficulties amongst us become drawn out and exercises protracted, by the wife, perhaps, supporting the husband in what is wrong.
JT It often happens. Peter admits of no mistake in what he is saying to the wives and husbands here. If the wife has been formed by the Scriptures, by the truth, her conversation will be all the more valuable.
Rem It says here “pure conversation”.
JT That is a good thought to bring up, because how often it is that wives drop to the level of the world in their conversation! Whereas it is to be pure conversation if it is to be valuable. Peter makes much of the idea of purity, “pure minds”, for instance, “Stir up your pure minds”.
Ques Do you think there is need for the recognition of the Spirit of God in all these matters? It is noticeable in Genesis 24 that there is no mention of adornment with Rebecca — although she is not a wife yet — until after the camels have done drinking. I was wondering whether the watering of the ten camels would not indicate the recognition of the Spirit of God in every department of human responsibility? And when the camels had done drinking the servant took out the ornaments and put them on her. Would that bear on this question of adornment? These adornments really flow out from an inward state, do they not?
JT It would be adornment in the true sense of the word. That passage helps greatly as to the Spirit because Abraham’s servant is called the first servant of his house. His name is never given in that chapter. It is Eliezer of course, but it is not given there; he is Abraham’s servant, which would point to the Spirit of God. And as many of us have been remarking, Rebecca would, no doubt, converse with the servant, who typifies the Spirit of God.
WFW Then you have in mind that at the present time we are to avail ourselves of the Spirit, that He is to serve us?
JT Quite so. The Spirit is available to serve us.
Ques Why is it that wives are addressed first here?
JT Because it is the prominent thought in the apostle’s mind, as we can well understand. As already remarked, the epistle to the Corinthians is [p. 47] parallel, but entering into the subject much more extensively than Peter does. But Peter has his own point of view and we have to take it on because it is a question of the government of God, as we began with yesterday. It is a question of God s government in ordinary life, and how the wife comes into that.
AM Is there not something special in the reference that Peter makes to holy women in this section? Is it not a unique expression in Scripture involving dignity, the wives themselves recognizing their true personality spiritually?
JT Sarah being the example, and rising to the dignity that is in her conversation, that what she says is quoted as Scripture.
SMcC Would the allusion to “carried out in fear” in verse 2 bear on the government of God in these circumstances, that there should be a wholesome fear with us? It says, “having witnessed your pure conversation carried out in fear” 1 Peter 3:2.
JT That is a wholesome attitude of mind, that they are not independent; it is fear as regards the actions of God in His government, as to what might happen in the government of God; one has a certain wholesome fear as to that. But then we have another allusion to fear in verse 6: “Whose children ye have become, doing good, and not fearing with any kind of consternation” 1 Peter 3:6. That is to say the husband is not to cause any undue fear in the wife; there is to be no consternation.
JRH As to this matter of holy women that has been brought forward, you would encourage a wife to hold tenaciously to the thought of the unbelieving husband being sanctified in the wife?
JT I should indeed, and the children too; the children are sanctified. They are relatively holy; the children of a believing parent are holy. But then what you say means that the wife may sanctify the husband, which gives him an [p. 48] advantage.
GMcP Is there something in the fact that when the wives are addressed Peter speaks in verse 4 of the hidden man of the heart?
JT The hidden man of the heart would be Christ. That is to say the wife cherishes that thought; it is not simply a husband, but Christ.
Ques The thought of “knowledge” in verse 7 is very comprehensive, is it not?
JT Yes. It says, “Ye husbands likewise, dwell with them according to knowledge, as with a weaker, even the female, vessel, giving them honour, as also fellow-heirs of the grace of life” 1 Peter 3:7, a beautiful expression; and then, “that your prayers be not hindered”, showing how the prayer meeting may be augmented by the prayers of the wife and husband at home.
SMcC What does “the grace of life” suggest to you?
JT I would think that the force of the word “life” should be learned from the meaning of it in Romans, because Paul brings up the idea of life, spiritual life, very much in Romans, and much develops out of what he says. John of course enlarges on life also, but Paul, I think, has in mind to show how life is worked out in connection with the gospel. The great thought of life — not simply life in the ordinary sense, what men go in for, but the grace of it — is what is in Christ. It would develop into the idea of eternal life, “the end eternal life”, as Romans 6:22 presents it. Life is mentioned here in verse 7 in an instructive sense as to how it works out in the ordinary lives of Christians, as husbands and wives. “The grace of life” belongs to heaven I would say, but it is an element which comes down here to men where they are. It can be seen, it is practical.
Rem And shared together in this relationship.
JT Just so, like Aquila and Priscilla; how they shared it together, and as a matter of fact, brought [p. 49] Paul into it in their house! What beautiful grace must have been there in the house of Aquila and Priscilla!
ANW The showing of honour is beautiful, the wife owning her husband as head and the husband giving honour to the weaker vessel.
JT Very good.
EAL Do we see in all this the natural desire to have control? The wife may be happier to have her own way.
JT Quite so; so that Aquila and Priscilla afford a very good model for us as to this matter, even as to the economic side of it, lest the wife should aspire to have an income of her own in some sense in order to get all she wanted for her own benefit. All that would not work out according to the mind of God in this passage.
FNW Would the word “fellow-heirs” give a heavenly touch to the household setting?
JT A very beautiful expression, “fellow-heirs of the grace of life”!
FNW Would it be a border of blue coming in in those circumstances?
JT Quite so.
RWS Whose prayers are these, the husband’s or inclusive of the wife, “that your prayers be not hindered”?
JT They would be joint, I would think. The husband would be the one to pray if it is a joint prayer, but then she shares in it.
Ques Would you have in Luke 1:6 in Zacharias and Elizabeth a fitting example of the grace of life? It says, “And they were both just before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless”.
JT Very good, only it does not go far enough. They were doing very well but there was something wanting between them, and the dumbness imposed [p. 50] on Zacharias was the government of God. That of course comes into it. But referring to this other thought of the prayers of the saints, the husband’s and the wife’s, what had you in mind?
Rem I had only in mind how the Spirit of God commends them at the beginning of Luke’s gospel. After giving the names of Zacharias and his wife and their genealogy it says, “And they were both just before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless” Luke 1:6.
JT Read further briefly to see what comes out.
Rem “And they had no child, because Elizabeth was barren, and they were both advanced in years” Luke 1:7.
JT That is to say the government of God was there, yet they were not governed by that; they were not influenced by that. Perhaps we should read a little further.
Rem “And it came to pass, as he fulfilled his priestly service before God in the order of his course, it fell to him by lot, according to the custom of the priesthood, to enter into the temple of the Lord to burn incense. And all the multitude of the people were praying without at the hour of incense. And an angel of the Lord appeared to him, standing on the right of the altar of incense. And Zacharias was troubled, seeing him, and fear fell upon him. But the angel said to him, Fear not, Zacharias, because thy supplication has been heard, and thy wife Elizabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John” Luke 1:8 - 13.
JT There is a governmental side to that whole passage. He does not have faith about it, that is the point; he has not faith although he is all right externally. And that may happen to any one of us, that things are all right apparently and yet they are not right, and he has to be stricken dumb for nine months on account of that, a most [p. 51] solemn thing.
JRH In spite of the fact that supplications had been going on.
JT Quite so, we might have things in order externally and not be really in order.
Rem It is encouraging to find that the government of God had its effect in the way he named the child. Do you think he was re-established in his faith and in his place as the head of the house?
JT “John is his name”, he says; there was no question about it. He is not going to be told what to name his child nor is even his wife. “John is his name”, Luke 1:63. He learned that after nine months of dumbness, the most solemn thing that could happen to any of us.
Ques Is the government of God to bring us into accord with the mind of God?
JT Quite so, that is just what it is. The government of God is for good to us.
SMcC What you are saying is important because so often you hear it said in difficulties, ‘I have nothing on my conscience’; but Paul says, “For I am conscious of nothing in myself; but I am not justified by this: but he that examines me is the Lord”, 1 Corinthians 4:4.
JT I had to do with that very thing quite recently. I was pointing out to a brother something about him that was very, very wrong and he said, ‘I have a good conscience in what I am doing’. ‘Well’, I said, ‘a good conscience is not enough. You want more than that; you want righteousness’. You cannot always go by the good conscience a person has because it may not be enlightened, or he may not be governed by the truth that is enlightening.
EAL Where there is conflict for the truth in a locality and we are praying for help, do we not have to be conscious that the Lord can help, and not be [p. 52] like Zacharias who doubted? There is nothing that cannot be repaired and set right by God.
Ques Would it be right for a wife to pray audibly in her house with her husband?
JT So far as I am concerned we have never done it, but I am not saying that that is just right. “I will therefore that the men pray in every place”, it says, “lifting up pious hands, without wrath or reasoning” 1 Timothy 2:8, but I think the wife might pray, if she feels equal to it.
WWM Do you think it is inferred here that where these happy relationships exist between the husband and the wife there will be the sense as they kneel down together that their prayers are heard? It is a great thing to have the sense of acceptance with God, and in anything that may come between us in our families or otherwise there should be short accounts kept so that we may not be hindered in prayer.
JT So that if the husband prays in the family setting what comes up to God is more likely to be acceptable to God, because he is more intelligent in what he is saying.
Ques And if he is dwelling with his wife according to knowledge, he will cover all that is required to be covered. I have heard it said that a wife prays audibly because she fills in the things her husband has riot thought of, but if he is filling his part as head that would hardly be the case, would it?
JT That is the way I would look at it, though I would not be dogmatic as to the wife praying. But now to go on with our chapter; there is something that perhaps ought to be dealt with in verses 8 - 12. There is the word, “Finally, be all of one mind, sympathising, full of brotherly love, tender hearted, humble minded; not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing; but on the contrary, blessing others, because ye have been called to this,
[p. 53] that ye should inherit blessing. For he that will love life and see good days, let him cause his tongue to cease from evil and his lips that they speak no guile. And let him avoid evil, and do good; let him seek peace and pursue it; because the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous, and his ears towards their supplications” 1 Peter 3:8,9. Now this is something the young people ought to pay attention to, as if God were saying, It is quite right to wish to live if you are a young person and have aspirations, but this is the way to get to it — showing according to Peter’s way that you get certain things by other certain things. This is something to encourage young people. If you want to live and to have a wife and family and all that, well, God says, that is quite in order, but then there is a way to it to please Me; and that is as applying yourself, not to getting money, but to living according to these traits mentioned here; and then life and good days will come, which is very encouraging, especially to young people.
Ques That is a continuation of the thought of government is it not?
JT Exactly, it is a question of government, as to how such a condition as described will work out for good, that is, for good days.
JTJr This is a quotation from Psalm 34 where David changed his behaviour, and where he had to change his position because Abimelech drove him out, a governmental action.
JT Very good. Now the other passage that should not be passed over is in 1 Peter 3:15, “Sanctify the Lord the Christ in your hearts, and be always prepared to give an answer to every one that asks you to give an account of the hope that is in you, but with meekness and fear; having a good conscience, that as to that in which they speak against you as evildoers, they may be ashamed who calumniate your good conversation in Christ”. Now that [p. 54] is a remarkable thing, how the testimony is carried on on these lines. Then it goes on, “For it is better, if the will of God should will it, to suffer as well-doers than as evildoers; for Christ indeed has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in flesh but made alive in the Spirit, in which also going he preached to the spirits which are in prison, heretofore disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah while the ark was preparing, into which few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water”. 1 Peter 3:17 - 20. Now I thought that should come before the brethren, this matter of what happened in the days of Noah.
AR Would you explain verse 19, “in which also going he preached to the spirits which are in prison”?
JT Read the preceding passage again, “Christ indeed has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God” 1 Peter 3:18. That is why He suffered. Then it says, “being put to death in flesh, but made alive in the Spirit, in which also going he preached to the spirits which are in prison”. 1 Peter 3:18,19. That is to say, they are in prison now, not at that time; they were at liberty then and the Lord preached to them. But the preaching was not by Himself personally going there, but by Noah. Noah was the vessel of the preaching. I would submit that to the brethren for each to see for himself what is meant.
AR That helps; it is a question of who is doing the preaching. It is Noah.
WFW Would you say that the Spirit of Christ was in Noah?
JT That is right.
Rem Does it not mean also that in any preaching the Spirit of Christ is to be operative in the vessel at the time? And does this bear on the present moment in view of the imminent judgment? I was thinking of what is coming on the world, that whilst [p. 55] there is longsuffering from God, yet as refusing the testimony of grace the situation will parallel that in the days of Noah when the door was shut and the floods came and drowned them all. Would it not introduce a sense of urgency into the preachings at the present time?
JT I think that is very good, because 2 Thessalonians contemplates that the hand of the Lord, or certain means under His hand, is holding back the evil. The apostle’s word is that the day of the Lord will not come until there come an apostasy. The Thessalonians were misled by the thought that the day of the Lord was there, but it was not. Paul is saying that there must be an apostasy first before the day of the Lord comes; but then, when may that not be? How sudden it may be, and how solemn it is that it is sudden and how we should be on the alert to preach the gospel whenever we can, “in season and out of season”! That is, keep on preaching the word of God. God is keeping the door open, “not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance” 2 Peter 3:9. At the same time things are fixed in the mind of God and the apostasy will come, a very terrible thing. But God is holding it back through certain means: “only there is he who restrains now until he be gone, and then the lawless one shall be revealed” 2 Thessalonians 2:7,8. So it is urgent to be on the alert to preach the word of God whenever we can so that men, if possible, should be saved.
Ques Is that why Paul says. “I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory”? 2 Timothy 2:10.
JT Such a salvation as that; that the elect may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. Think of the glory; think of the wonderfulness of that on God’s part!
[p. 56] Rem The only alternative being what Thessalonians mentions, a day of vengeance on those that know not God and have not obeyed the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
GAS Does the reason of the hope that is within us go along with the preaching of the gospel?
JT Quite so. That is just what we get here. We ought to be ready to give an answer to anybody that asks for it, not to push it on them exactly, but to do it in a seemly way; but if a man asks for it, it becomes all the more simple. Give an account of the hope that is in you, the apostle says.
Ques The apostle Paul could say that woe should betide him if he did not preach the gospel. Do you think that we should, in some sense, feel something like that? Is there a responsibility on us?
JT There is indeed.
SMcC Have you anything in mind in connection with the Spirit in relation to this mediatorial service alluded to here? The end of verse 18 says, “but made alive in the Spirit”, and the word “Spirit” is capitalised: “in which also going he preached to the spirits which are in prison” 1 Peter 3:19.
JT That would mean the Spirit of God, would it not? “Made alive in the Spirit”; very remarkable that that should be said even of Christ.
SMcC Does it suggest the kind of backward, retroactive flow in connection with the incarnation, our Lord’s coming into manhood?
JT I have often thought of the word ‘retroactive’, what the Lord did in that sense, but in truth He did it because of His Spirit, the Spirit of Christ. That is to say, the Spirit of Christ was in Noah.
JRH Is this a reference to His resurrection, “made alive in the Spirit”?
JT I think it would be, because the resurrection is spoken of throughout this part as a main thought, a main accomplishment on the part of God.
JRH [p. 57] Is that continued in verse 6 of the following chapter in the saints? “For to this end were the glad tidings preached to the dead also, that they might be judged, as regards men, after the flesh, but live, as regards God, after the Spirit” 1 Peter 4:6.
JT It is a similar thought carried through into chapter 4. That is why the glad tidings were preached in those early days, showing how God in those early days was thinking of men.
FSC Would one say that the water that destroyed the world saved eight souls?
JT Quite so, the water was a means of salvation, a remarkable thing.
Ques Is it not encouraging that in the introduction of baptism the Lord’s place on high is brought in and the power that belongs to it?
JT It is remarkable that the whole matter of redemption is mentioned there. In verse 20 the water is brought in: “When the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah while the ark was preparing, into which few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water” 1 Peter 3:20; that is, it is an instrumentality; and then it goes on to say, “which figure also now saves you, even baptism, not a putting away of the filth of flesh, but the demand as before God of a good conscience” 1 Peter 3:21. Baptism according to Colossians involves that a person comes out of the water; it contains a figure at least of the person coming out of the water; not simply being immersed, but that he comes out.
Rem Here it is spoken of in relation to the resurrection of Jesus Christ and also to His place of power on high.
JT That is glorious I would say — how the apostle Peter is led to run on to all this, “by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who is at the right hand of God, gone into heaven, angels and authorities and powers being subjected to him” 1 Peter 3:21,22. It is glorious!
[p. 58] And all brought in in connection with the eight souls saved through water.
Ques Would it be right to say that persons who answer to what baptism sets forth are found in the ark?
JT Well, found in the assembly; that is what is meant.
JWD Why do you think it tells us there were eight souls, and calls them “few”?
JT Why should it not be so? It is the truth. It is a very small matter outwardly, but it is a great matter on the part of God that there should be some saved at that time. We look back at it now as a glory.
JWD Very few, were they not, compared to our dispensation?
JT Well, it would encourage us to keep on preaching, preaching even to disobedient people; “while the ark was preparing”, the power of the very thing that God prepared to save the eight. While that was preparing there was a means of salvation.
Ques Noah preached for one hundred and twenty years, although, so far as we know, he had not one convert. Is that not an example to us to keep on?
JT Keep on preaching! That is just what I would say. Preach the gospel, preach the word, as it says. Get the thing done; that with which the real power is is the word of God. “The word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart” Hebrews 4:12. Wonderful! So let us preach the word, let us give them the right thing.
JS Are these eight souls saved through God’s governmental [p. 59] dealings?
JT We would attribute it to God anyway, but it was in the days of Noah. He prepared an ark for the saving of his house, we are told — another thing that should come into our thought at this time: “for the saving of his house” — so that we are to have nothing about us that would tend to do anything but save our houses.
Rem And Hebrews 11:7 tells us that in doing so he “condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith”, which is the positive side.
AB There is great expansion of subjection in this chapter. It begins in verse 1 with the wife, which would be individual, but it ends with “angels and authorities and powers being subjected to him” 1 Peter 3:22.
JT How real the means of salvation is, and how extensive, how far reaching! Hence the opportunity afforded to us of continuing on with the preaching right to the end. But let it be remembered that it is the word that has to be preached. Of course the gospel too, but the word, the word of God, as we have quoted from Hebrews.
FW Is baptism referred to here as in regard to the governmental dealings of God?
JT Well, it would look so, But baptism is brought in as a real saving element; not baptism in the mere sense of a person being a christian nominally and not a Jew; it is a saving thing. That is what is in mind.
Ques Would not the place of Christ on high, “angels and authorities and powers being subjected to him” 1 Peter 3:22, be very encouraging to any who would accept the truth of baptism and part company with the world and its affairs?
JT That is what is meant, it is parting company with the world. God is not supporting us in keeping company with the world even although we may accept baptism. Baptism is a saving element from God.