RADIATION OF DIVINE AFFECTIONS IN JOHN'S GOSPEL (3)

RADIATION OF DIVINE AFFECTIONS IN JOHN’S GOSPEL (3)

John 14: 19 - 23; John 16: 26 - 27; John 17: 20 - 26; John 20: 17 - 18

SMcC The section in John’s Gospel from the 14th to the 17th chapters, is a unique section in the teaching of the Gospel - a section that is replete with references to divine affections. The Lord is going to heaven, and all that He says is in view of that. He is going there to establish and set up a new and heavenly order of things, linked with His presence there and the Holy Spirit’s presence here in the assembly. In view of His leaving them the teaching bears upon the coming of the Spirit, and John 14 in the latter part of it, beginning with the 15th verse, is particularly contemplating the time of the assembly and the day of breakdown when things would be different from what they were in the beginning; but even in the midst of that, divine thoughts are viewed as workable, even in the reduction to the smallest possible extent, as seen in the Lord’s word in verse 23, “If anyone love me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him.” And in verse 21, “He that has my commandments and keeps them he it is that loves me, but he that loves me shall be loved by my Father and I will love him and will manifest myself to him.” All this supposes the presence of the Spirit in the light of verse 16, as with us and in us, and the Father and the Son moving towards us as loving Christ and as keeping His commandments. So that it is important that we should understand the divine affections radiating in these particular circumstances. Because what is provided in these circumstances is the possibility of divine Persons going on with us when everything publicly may be broken up. It throws into relief the greatness of the believer, the greatness of those that belong to the assembly as being the objects of divine Persons, not One, but all Three, as having to do with the believer as loving Christ and keeping the commandments of Christ. The believer thus becomes the object of the concentrated activity and interest of all three Persons of the Godhead - love entering into it and affecting the position.

GB So that we are not orphans, we are not left as orphans here.

SMcC No, exactly. The Lord says, “I am coming to you.” He is alluding to the disciples, when He says “I will not leave you orphans,” as having companied with Him, and their hearts and affections had become attached to Jesus, and now He was going to leave them, and the Lord in using the word orphans, is taking account of what filled their hearts at the thought of His going.

JSC Could we not put ourselves there abstractly?

SMcC On the public side the Lord is not here, so that publicly we stand in that position; but inwardly we know, as we have done this morning, the preciousness of what is linked with His promise here, “I am coming to you.”

REH What would His commandments be in this present dispensation?

SMcC It is whatever light He may have given to regulate us, that becomes the commandment of Christ to us. You will remember how Paul referred the Corinthians to the Lord’s commandment, referring to the general bearing of the Epistle. He says, “Recognise the things that I write to you, that it is the Lord’s commandment.” 1 Corinthians 14: 37.

RGC Is verse 12 of chapter 15 included in the commandments?

SMcC It would be one of the commandments. The Lord does not leave it optional with us. It is a matter of what is imperative, that we should love one another. It is a very interesting thing both in John’s Gospel and John’s Epistle, that loving one another is not optional. It is not left to our choice. It is a matter of being regulated by the commandment of Christ that we love one another.

JW Would you draw a parallel between that and Joseph where it says “According to Thy commandment shall all my people regulate themselves.” Genesis 41: 40.

SMcC Very good. In the type that would amplify what we have here, that the solution of the whole position in Egypt lay in regulation by the commandment of Joseph. What I think is so important here, and what we should see is, that the believer as regulated by the commandments of Christ becomes the object of the concentrated interest of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. It is marvellous when you think of it, that three divine Persons should have their interest centring in one believer as John would draw attention to it - a believer on an assembly footing as we have been taught. It is not just a believer in isolation going on in his own way according to his own thoughts; it represents those who are regulated by the commandments of Christ and who are on an assembly footing, even in a difficult day.

RGC Does he emphasise the privileges and advantages of such believers in the two references to “in that day.” “In that day ye shall know” and “in that day ye shall demand”?

SMcC Exactly, that is what calls out the activity of the love of Christ. We might say, does He not love all of us, does He not love all the saints? But here it is put on the basis of “He that has my commandments and keeps them, he it is that loves me, but he that loves me shall be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will manifest myself to him.” We are to understand the radiation of divine affections in this light, that it is not just on the basis of what we are as born again, but on the basis of what we are as keeping the commandments of Christ and loving Him.

Rem Do divine Persons then, love what is lovable in the believer?

SMcC Exactly, so that the believer as on this footing that John 14 contemplates, becomes attractive to divine Persons.

REH Is this then an added reason for the outgoings of divine love, that we in responsibility would furnish?

SMcC Exactly; the Lord in this Gospel gives as it were the occasion for the Father’s love to express itself. “On this account the Father loves me because I lay down my life, that I may take it again.” And here the believer is giving an occasion for divine love to express itself.

HW When He says “keep my commandments,” does not that link with what is written on the fleshly tables of the heart?

SMcC Well, that is another feature of the truth. That is a question of what divine Persons do, as to the ministry, the new covenant ministry that is alluded to there. Here it is more the expression of the mind of Christ in the way of controlling us in a world where lawlessness is in expression.

GHR Are the words “Yet a little while and the world sees me no longer, but ye see me” calculated to indicate to us how divine Persons are now concentrating upon the period of the assembly?

SMcC Well, exactly, it is the faith period, it is the time of the assembly, and the Holy Spirit is contemplated as taking His place in the assembly, forming the assembly. The world does not see Him nor know Him, and the faith period is contemplated as the Lord says “Yet a little while and the world sees me no longer but ye see me; because I live ye also shall live.” John 14: 19. That is life in the highest aspect that we have in John’s Gospel. It is life that is bound up with Christ as He is and where He is in the glory.

SR So is this a choice product of the Lord’s own service we may say, in persons having affection for Him, the Lord having secured this in a peculiar way?

SMcC Yes. His service is all directed towards us that we might be helped on to this line, and it is a wonderful thing to look upon any of the saints and think of the possibilities with the saints individually, in this light.

PB So in view of the break-up, He says, “He that has my commandments and keeps them he it is that loves me,” the Lord emphasises the keeping them.

SMcC That is the point, “Keeps them.” It is not just having them that is important, but “He that has my commandments and keeps them, he it is that loves me.” Persons say that they love Christ, but if they do not keep His commandments, we have a right to challenge their love for Christ. All these young people here that have never committed themselves to the Lord’s supper, we have a right to challenge whether they love Christ. They might say, “Yes, I love the Lord,” but do they love the Lord? Why were they sitting behind this morning? If they love Christ then what will be manifest is, they will keep His commandments.

RFH So that this position is to be seen and taken account of, in contrast to the statement in 2 Timothy 2:19 “The Lord knows those that are His.”

SMcC Exactly, this is something concrete. It is not something just abstract, it is something working out concretely in a day of brokenness, that there are those that are known as loving Christ, having His commandments and keeping them.

JRF That word, “having my commandments” is precious, isn’t it? Does it mean treasured in our hearts? It speaks also of the word and the keeping of it.

SMcC “He that has my commandments” is a delightful reference to what we have. There are many things that we do not have, but this is one of the things that we do have. If we have the commandments of Christ, then the keeping of them is something more.

ARG As to these dear young people that you refer to, they are nearly always present at the preaching of the word. Do you think that those who serve in that should strive to keep the commandments of the Lord well under their notice, to stimulate them towards the breaking of bread?

SMcC The preachers will always seek to help them all they can. The brethren, too, generally. It is a great thing to see that, if we profess to love Christ, John would say, well, the proof of it would be in keeping His commandments. The Lord says “He that has my commandments and keeps them, he it is that loves me.”

EBMc What is the difference between that and the words in verse 23, “If anyone love me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him.” Is the word greater than the commandment?

SMcC The word is fuller than the commandments; the commandments are regulating, the word is enriching. That is, the word opens up to us the mind of Christ, opens up to us what is linked with His own precious thoughts. So that the reference to the word follows. The first is the regulating thought, and if we are subject to that and keep the commandments, then we will get this other thought as to keeping His word, meaning that we are enriched in divine thoughts.

DB “If ye shall keep my commandments ye shall abide in my love, as I have kept my Father’s commandments and abide in His love.” I was thinking how touching it is that the Lord kept his Father’s commandments and abode in His love. He did not just give himself without having commandment from the Father.

SMcC So that He has left us a model for that, amongst other things.

RGC Is the word best known by one who is nearest to Christ, as John on His bosom?

SMcC Yes, what an understanding John would have of the mind of Christ; that would be in the keeping of His word. Colossians says, “Let the word of the Christ dwell in you richly,” a remarkable suggestion, so that the position is not impoverished. The word would bring in what is substantial, the commandment more the authoritative side, the word more the inward enriching side.

REH So you are emphasising that we must recognise this moral order, the commandment coming before we have the thought of the word?

SMcC Exactly, I think it is an important principle to see in the way of God that as persons act on the line of obedience in faith, they will get further light as to what is before them. We often attempt to reverse the position and expect to get light before we act, but when the truth is presented to us, and we act on it, we get more light.

LI In relation to the word that Paul uses as to the Lord’s supper (1 Corinthians 11: 17) I notice the note says, charging or commanding. Would that be important in relation to what you have said regarding the Lord’s supper; we have a right to challenge those who are not remembering the Lord?

SMcC Exactly, we have a right to ask why they are not remembering the Lord if they profess to love Him; because this would involve that the commandments are kept, and in the keeping of His commandments, we have the proof of love for Christ.

GA May it not be possible for such to be looking for light instead of realising that they need to come under the regulation of His commandments.

SMcC They need to be subject, obedient; the Gospel is preached first of all for the obedience of faith; and as we are regulated in that way, subject to the commandments, then we get help and light as to what may be before us.

GB Is that seen in the 9th chapter of John where the blind man receives sight? It says, “He went and came seeing.” Is that in line with what you mean?

SMcC Yes, he was subject to the word of Christ, and as subject to the word of Christ his eyes were opened, he got sight. He was able to see.

GB It is noteworthy that it says here in verse 19, “Because I live ye also shall live,” that is really life operative, is it not?

SMcC Yes, because life, as we are referring to it, is always subjective. Eternal life involves what is objective, a sphere into which we are brought in the knowledge of divine Persons among the saints in the assembly, but life as we have it in this 19th verse involves what is operative, what affects us subjectively, that is life in contact with Christ, “because I live, ye also shall live.” That is, our living hinges on His living, because He lives we live, because all that we are and have is bound up with this glorious Person.

GB That brings us within the range of the knowledge of the love of the Father. Is that not a feature of what we enjoy?

SMcC Well, as keeping the commandments of Christ, we come under the notice of the Father. As it says, “He that loves me shall be loved by my Father and I will love him.” Now I think we should see before we leave this passage that it is throwing into relief the personnel, those that form the assembly. We walk in the light of the assembly in a difficult day, and think of the greatness of those that form it, as suggested here, that as keeping the commandments of Christ and loving Christ they become the objects of divine affection, expressed toward us by the Father and the Son.

PB “And we will make our abode with him.” Does that involve the radiation of love as residing in persons, the personnel of the assembly?

SMcC Yes, it points to the greatness of what is present in the persons who form the assembly. What do we know and what can we say about it, about enjoying the abiding of the Father and the Son, the Holy Spirit being with us provides the basis for the Father and the Son making their abode with us?

MM Is this something of the reciprocity you spoke of yesterday, of love’s movements, the workability of it?

SMcC Yes, exactly, love operating in me towards a divine Person draws out love from a divine Person towards me. It is a remarkable thing, when you take account of it in that light. So that, as having to do with one another it would help to see the dignity of one another. If I have to do with a believer in whom the Father and the Son are abiding, what an important thing it is. I would regard him or her with the dignity that is becoming to such a position.

EBMc “The Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all the things which I have said to you.” That is, the Spirit is here, and there is no excuse for us not knowing.

SMcC There is not, and there is no excuse for us not loving either, because the Holy Spirit is with us and in us, and we have every encouragement to love Christ, to keep His commandments and love Him.

REH Are there two thoughts emphasised herein, first the power of what is found in the Spirit, and secondly the position of being orphans, that we have no other reserves or resources?

SMcC That would be the point in mind, that the Spirit is the secret of power in the position, as with and in the saints of the assembly. However broken up things may become in the dispensation, the Spirit does not leave the saints. The Spirit came here to abide with the saints forever.

Rem Will the thought of enrichment, as you have been drawing our attention to, be seen in Philadelphia, as marked by keeping the word of Christ?

SMcC Yes, Philadelphia means “brotherly love,” as if we are reminded that in that choice phase of assembly history love has free and unhindered movement, and the Lord loves to go over the features that are there, even to the extent of saying that He would cause those that opposed to come and do homage at the feet of the saints.

AP With regard to what the Lord says, “I will manifest myself to him,” this seems to come consequent on our accepting what you have said as to the thought of commandments, as coming under the authority of the Lord in obedience.

SMcC Exactly, so this morning what we were looking for was a manifestation of Christ. That is what we normally look for, even in a day of brokenness. The supper opens up the way for Christ to manifest Himself to those that are regulated by His commandments.

PB So that we are either in the flow of divine love or we are not there.

SMcC Well, that would be the point in John 14.

It is a great matter to be in it, to be in this current and flow of divine affections.

Rem A constitution built up in love, would manifest itself on their part, in keeping His commandments? The Lord’s word to His saints is an evidence of His love to them.

SMcC So that John 14 onwards contemplates an assembly constitution. It involves what we have in the realm where the light of the assembly is, that is what John 14 onwards has in mind, the collective position, what the saints are as left here, in the absence of Christ, the Holy Spirit, among them, and the greatness of this assembly period. So that we should all value what there is among the saints.

JC Does verse 31 give us a lead? The Lord Jesus Himself says, “That the world may know that I love the Father and as the Father has commanded me, thus I do.” There is a positive evidence of His love for the Father in what He does.

SMcC He always moved in relation to the Father in the Gospel. More than once does He refer to His relations with the Father in this light. And He says at one time, speaking of the Father, “I know His commandment is life eternal.” A remarkable thing that the commandment, as we are speaking of it, involves the radiation of divine affection. We are so accustomed to think of the commandments as arbitrary matters, whereas the commandments here are the basis for the radiation of divine love, the love of the Father, the love of the Son, and we may say, the love of the Spirit too, for that is entering into it.

PB So it says, “I give my peace to you.” Is that the result of it?

SMcC Well, exactly.

Rem They are really commandments of love, are they not?

SMcC Yes, love is the great subject matter in these closing chapters. And now when we come to chapter 16, the Lord says, verse 26, “in that day ye shall ask in my name; and I say not to you that I will demand of the Father for you, for the Father himself has affection for you, because ye have had affection for me and have believed that I came out from God.” Now the Lord is pointing to the fact that in going on high, He would no longer have demanded for them, as in the 16th verse of the 14th chapter, he begs the Father to give them another Comforter; but now he says “In that day ye shall ask in my name” pointing to their liberty as set up in the power of the Spirit in living relations with the Father. It shows the greatness of the present moment now that Christ is gone on high, that the Father is, by reason of the Spirit present with us, moving towards us in the radiation of His affections.

REH Is that connected with “He shall do greater than these?”

SMcC Well, I think it is touching the way the Lord says in connection with that day, that is the Spirit’s day, or the assembly day, the “Father Himself has affection for you.” They knew the affection that Christ had for them, but now He is seeking to inculcate into their minds the Father’s system of things, a system of things in which the Father’s affections were active towards them because of their love for Christ.

RGC Why do you think He attaches this thought of believing with this thought of affection? Before, it was knowing and keeping.

SMcC Now it is the activity of faith, in relation to the testimony presented. It says, “And have believed that I came out from God.” He is referring to the particular activity of faith on their part in regard to the teaching that He had brought forward in the ministry. That He “had come out from God” and was “going to God.”

SR Does the feet washing that we had yesterday,

lie behind this in the mind of the Lord? In going out from, and going back to God.

SMcC Yes, He refers there to the fact that He came out from God and was going to God, and they believed it. It says “And have believed that I came out from God.” This shows the importance of faith taking on the truth, that we come under the Father’s observation, and the activity of His affection towards us on the one hand, first because we have affection for Christ, and secondly because we believe and accept the truth and take it on.

JW Is that not what divine Persons are longing and waiting for, for that moment that we might really believe the truth?

SMcC Yes, they have in mind that we should take on the truth in whatever way the truth may come to us. The Father seems to have great pleasure in the saints because they believe the testimony presented.

JW I just wondered there. It seems from that very point the Lord Jesus says, “The hour is come,” and turns to the Father, as much as to say what He has waited for He has reached.

SMcC Yes, and He says, “And have believed that I came out from God.” It really means “from the God.” Hidden in that expression is His place in the deity. As it says “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God;” the preposition ‘from’ in this verse, means with, from with God, alongside God in communicative associations, which the preposition denotes.

ATS Then in the next verse it says, “I came out from the Father.” Would you say something as to that, in relation to the previous word “I came out from God?”

SMcC Well, it is very interesting, how He alludes to that following this expression, “and have believed that I came out from God.” He says, “I have come out from the Father and have come into the world.” Notice that, the first statement is just the statement that He came out from God, having in mind the scope of mediatorial operations, but then it says, “I came out from the Father and have come into the world.” That would allude to the particular way in which He appeared in public testimony in the world. The world is always presented in John’s writings in contrast to the Father, as if the revelation of God in this light becomes a peculiar means that the enemy operates against through the system referred to as the world.

AW That would be when He began to be about 30 years?

SMcC Well, I suppose it would enter into that. His baptism, the Holy Spirit coming upon Him, the way He went out and came into the world, it would have in mind His public service. He says, “Again I leave the world and go to the Father.”

Ques Is there any difference in this “coming out” here and in John 6 where He speaks of “coming down?”

SMcC Yes, John 6 is administrative. The whole chapter is filled with the administrative line, “The bread of God is he who comes down out of heaven and gives his life to the world.” It is the administrative chapter there.

RN Would you say a little as to knowing the Father? You were speaking just now of the Lord coming out in testimony. Is it worked out with us in the way He had peculiar links with the Father every day? I would like some help.

SMcC I would think so. I think it alludes to what we have in the first chapter, “we have contemplated His glory, the glory as of an only begotten with a father, full of grace and truth,” although it is not the stressing of my Father “I came out from the Father.” That is, it is God known in that name of grace.

RN So that we are to learn to go to the Father not only in privilege, but in matters of testimony too, are we?

SMcC Well, exactly. And I think we should understand and enjoy more intimacy with divine Persons, as these chapters of John’s Gospel impress us with, intimacy with the Father and the Son and with the Spirit. Divine Persons, as it were, are not at a distance. Their company, reverently speaking, is to be known and enjoyed.

REH So that this is a link then with the 1st chapter and a transitional period, we might say, the Lord educating them into it?

SMcC He is about to leave them, and He is impressing their minds and hearts with the Father’s realm, the Father’s world, God known in that name.

SR Is the climax reached in the disciples when they say further down, “By this we believe that thou art come from God?” Is that a climax that the Lord was seeking to reach in them?

SMcC It says, “Now we know that thou knowest all things and hast not need that anyone should demand of thee. By this we believe that thou has come from God.” That is, the things are taking effect with them, they are progressing in the truth. Progress in the truth, progressive knowledge is a great matter. There is the idea of revelation, as with Peter in one sense, as in Matthew 16, but then the matter of progressive knowledge is another side, and this is progressive knowledge here. He says, in verse 27, “And have believed that I came out from God.” And then, they say, “By this we believe that thou art come from God.” They are progressing in their knowledge.

JW In view of progressing, is it the desire of the Lord that we might ask the Father in His name, so that our joy might be increased too, along with the knowledge?

SMcC Yes, the Lord is seeking to help them as to the liberty that they had, direct liberty with the Father. He would impress them with the fact that the Father’s affection is for them. The Father Himself, the stress is on Himself, that Person, not exactly through the Spirit or through the Son, although we have to do with the Father by the Spirit and through the Son, but the Lord is, stressing the immediate intimacy. “The Father himself has affection for you, because ye have had affection for me.” Showing that every bit of affection for Christ comes under divine notice.

GB That should enrich and enlarge our capacity to worship the Father in the service of God.

SMcC All these experiences would lead on to that. John 17 would have in mind the service of God. John 16 is the public position where the demonstration of the Spirit is brought in, and where there is opposition to the truth. It is a great thing that we should understand, that as loving Christ we come in for the radiation of divine affection. The fact of our having affection for Christ draws out the affection of the Father Himself, not the affections of the Spirit, not the affections of the Son, but the affections of the Father Himself.

SR It would stand out in contrast, would it not, to the reference earlier to the position of orphans.

SMcC It would, it is to throw us into immediate and intimate contact with divine Persons. So that we are not just depending on what is external, in the way of ministry and the like, while all that enters into the position, and has its place and should be valued accordingly, but the importance of immediate and intimate links with divine Persons, that is what gives substantiality to our enjoyment of the truth.

MM Was that seen, we may say, livingly in the apostles in the Acts, where there was so much set against the assembly?

SMcC Exactly.

REH I was going to ask if the intimate knowledge of divine Persons as you have suggested to us, would help us in the understanding of the ministry, and what is the mind of the Lord for us at any moment, and we would never be at a disadvantage if we knew divine Persons better.

SMcC Well, that is the point exactly. The reason why we get defective in regard to the truth, is because our links with divine Persons are really interfered with. Something comes in that hinders for the moment our relations with divine Persons themselves, so that we do not see the truth as it comes at the moment.

GHR Does this draw attention to the harmony and unity of divine love in its radiation, so that their faith should not break down? The Lord felt for them, and understood how they would feel.

SMcC Exactly. It shows the greatness of Christianity, the greatness of things in the assembly, that the believer should be the object of divine Persons in this way.

GHR So that would it help us to hold the truth in affection? I was thinking of that expression, “I came out from God.” I suppose the Lord was bringing out the thoughts of God that He had for men.

SMcC Yes, exactly, the coming out from God would have in mind the whole scope of mediatorial operations.

GHR And I wondered if it was not calculated to exalt in our thoughts the greatness of the revelation.

SMcC Exactly, because it is great. The Lord Jesus Himself, is set before us in His personal greatness, as the One in whom the revelation comes to us. “In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.” The Word refers to Christ as One who was apprehended in that way by the disciples. He was able to express God to them.

REH Would this give us equal liberty in addressing the three divine Persons in revelation?

SMcC Why should we not address Them as we know Them? We are challenged as to our knowledge of Them. We are challenged as to our discernment as to each divine Person. What can we say about it? Can we discern the Father abiding with us, and can we discern the Son alongside of that and the Spirit too, personally with us and in us.

AC The Lord stresses speaking to the Father in His name, three times.

SMcC Well, exactly. That is because His absence is contemplated; the name points to the time of His absence. Now in John 17 we should see the dignified setting of things in this closing section, that is looking on to the Lord’s present position in the assembly in the closing verses of that chapter, that “The love with which thou hast loved me may be in them and I in them.” That would look on to the great position of Christ in the midst of the assembly. Divine affections come into this section, as He says in verse 23 “They may be perfected into one, and the world may know that thou hast sent me, and that thou hast loved them as thou has loved me. Father, as to those whom thou hast given me, I desire that where I am they also may be with me, for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. Righteous Father, and the world has not known thee, but I have known thee, and these have known that thou has sent me. And I have made known to them thy name, and will make it known; that the love with which thou hast loved me may be in them and I in them.” All this is to stress in our minds the great radiation of divine affections in the assembly. That is what is contemplated.

EBMc He has a company here that receives His words and keeps His words. Would that lead up to this? That is, He gives them credit for all that. I suppose abstractly, but still He says that of them.

SMcC It is remarkable how He speaks about the disciples in this chapter, and how He refers to their capacity, as in that verse “The words which thou hast given me I have given them, and they have received them.” And then He says, “The glory which thou hast given me I have given them,” and then He says, “The love with which thou hast loved me may be in them and I in them,” all stressing the greatness of the capacity that there is, in the saints.

SR The same kind of love is it in this last verse that you refer to?

SMcC It is the quality of the love that is stressed. “That the love with which thou hast loved me may be in them.” That is, the quality of that love is among the saints. It is a wonderful reference to the dignity of the position in the assembly. The Lord is in immediate link with the Father, as He says, “And now I come to Thee,” and He is contemplating His position in the assembly in the service of God, “That the love with which thou hast loved me may be in them and I in them.” He is in the assembly as the Leader of the praises, and the quality of the love is there in the assembly.

Rem “And will make it known.” Is that to the assembly?

SMcC That is John 20, the verse that we read; that is why we read that verse, that the activity of divine affections involves that God should be known in the fullest way. “I ascend to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God.” “Go to my brethren and say unto them, I have made known unto them thy name,” is past, “and will make it known” looks forward to John 20.

JW Could you say something as to the Lord’s desires that they might behold His glory? “My glory which thou hast given me,” verse 24. In Manhood, is it not, in glorious Manhood?

SMcC Yes, it would be that. It is acquired glory. It is “the glory which thou hast given me.” We are to note the difference between the glory in verse 24 and the glory in verse 22, that the glory in verse 22 is a glory that we share in, but the glory in verse 24 is a glory that we do not share in, but we are privileged to contemplate.

AP So that verse 22 I think we have been taught is the glory of sonship. Would you say something as to that?

SMcC It is what is conferred. Well, the radiation which the glory suggests, in regard to this matter of sonship, is an important thing. It involves our liberty with divine Persons and our liberty with one another.

ATS Yesterday you were remarking on love being the link between what belongs to absoluteness and what is relative, does this verse 24 connect with that? “Thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.”

SMcC It shows that love is the great link. Love was there, and love is here, and love is the great link. It is important to see love as John presents it in this unique way.

REH Would this help us in our view of the saints, to take account of their capacity, and what has been referred to here?

SMcC Exactly, so that we should have greater capacity for the enjoyment of divine love. I think that is the whole bearing of the teaching in these latter chapters, and that the capacity of the saints should be enlarged to enjoy divine love as it is known in this the Spirit’s day.

PB Does love for divine Persons, and love for one another help us as to this oneness the Lord has in mind?

SMcC Yes, look at the high standard; he says “The glory which thou hast given me, I have given them, that they may be one, as we are one.” “I in them, and thou in me.” What does this refer to when we think of it in relation to divine Persons? It involves a perfect state of love. And then He says, “That they may be perfected into one and that the world may know that thou hast sent me and that thou hast loved them as thou has loved me.” The Lord stresses unity, oneness, throughout in this chapter.

EBMcC I suppose this glory was at Antioch, where the disciples were first called Christians. It is the same glory, isn’t it, and it rests on the saints now. The saints are different from anyone else in the world. A certain glory rests on them.

SMcC Well, it does. It would work out I suppose in testimony, although I suppose the great thought is the service of God here in verse 22, “The glory which thou hast given me I have given them that they may be one as we are one; I in them, and thou in me that they may be perfected into one and that the world may know that thou has sent me.” And then in verse 24, “Father, as to those whom thou has given me I desire that where I am they also may be with me, that they may behold my glory which thou hast given me.” The working out of divine affections involves that we should be with Christ and alongside of Christ where He is, in contemplation of His glory.

RGC With regard to the world, why is that brought in? Is it that love may be practical and public with us?

SMcC Well, I think the expression “that the world may know,” conveys a general testimony of the oneness and unity among the brethren; it is not that the world accepts the testimony, but the testimony is there.

I suppose the full answer will be in the world to come, when the saints will be displayed as God’s righteousness in Christ.

GB “That the world may believe that thou has sent me.” Is not that prominent there? Isn’t that what the world will know as a result of the sending?

SMcC Yes, “And that thou hast loved them as thou hast loved me.” It is really a Philadelphian touch there.

MM Could we reach the height of privilege, without that preceding publicly, do you think - without this testimony, “That the world may know that thou has sent me?” That is the fruit of the saints loving one another, and then we can reach the highest privilege assemblywise, can we?

SMcC Well, I think in the way it is put, “that the world may,” looks on in full result of the millennium when the saints will be displayed as God’s righteousness in Christ.

GB Is this the complete answer contemplated to all the enemy has sought to bring in. “What hath God wrought,” would that be the answer?

SMcC Well, it is, and so in Philadelphia the Lord says, “and they shall know that I have loved thee.” That is, there is a testimony to those that have opposed. When it will be we cannot define, we are just left with the suggestion, that the Lord will cause them to know that He has loved them. Wonderful thing that the saints are marked out as the object of divine affection.

DB In Ephesians it says “That he might also display in the coming ages the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness towards us in Christ Jesus.” Would that be a similar thought?

SMcC Well, that looks on to the day of display.

PB Would you say in relation to the 24th verse that the glory which the Father gives to the Son,

which He does not communicate to the assembly, is something unique to Him and the Son becomes an Object of worship in that?

SMcC Well. He does, and it shows the great desire that a divine Person has that we should know and contemplate this kind of glory, what one divine Person gives to another. Because the Lord receives the glory here from the Father, “The glory which thou hast given me.”

AR We would seek to make room for that in the service, while enjoying our sonship, would we look on His as distinctive in the Father’s affections in that way?

SMcC Exactly, that however great our privileges are, however unique the privileges of the saints of the assembly are, and what we are as in association with Christ, there is always a uniqueness about Him that is to be maintained. He does not say Our Father and Our God, he says, “My Father and your Father, My God and your God.” I think that is the full result of verse 26.

JC So that the Lord Jesus Himself stands out as excellent amongst dignified persons? Verse 26 I am thinking of, the same love that was in Him is in the saints, dignified persons.

SMcC Yes, exactly, we need to understand the dignity of the saints as belonging to the assembly, more and more. That is what the Lord is helping us to see, all the time, the great dignity that attaches to them. And so John 20 verse 17 gives the most wonderful light ever communicated to man in regard to the privileges of the people of God. “I ascend to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God.” That is the activity of divine affections involves that we should understand and know our part and place with Christ in this exalted way, linked with His Father and our Father, with His God and our God.

RGC Is that the full answer then, to “I will not leave you orphans?” We have the Lord coming to us, and the Spirit come to us, and the Father’s love.

SMcC Yes. He comes to us and takes His place amongst us and leads us out in association with Himself in relation to this realm where God is known in this remarkable way.

GA This glory that has been given the saints, we need to take account of that side of things in the saints, it is a question of looking for that.

SMcC Well, exactly. We want to enjoy one another in the light of what we are according to what has been conferred upon us. That is the dignity of sonship. It is a wonderful thing to get a view of the saints in the light of sonship, what they are as having that conferred glory. It is not something that they work up to, nor something that is connected with the development of a state in them, it is something divinely given, belonging to everyone of the assembly, as having the Spirit.