DIGNITY AND WEALTH IN ADMINISTRATION (3)
DIGNITY AND WEALTH IN ADMINISTRATION (3)
SMcC Just as the assembly occupies a great place in the mind of Christ at the present time, so all the features of administration that we have been considering would subserve the great thought of the house, the assembly as we speak of it as typified in the house that Solomon built. And great extensive operations come into view which would remind us of the Lord operating mediately through Paul by the Spirit, in relation to the extensiveness of the work, the assembly as developed in Paul’s ministry. So that Paul in the 15th of Romans speaks of the extensive scope of labour in relation to his service as he says, that he would not speak of the things that Christ wrought by him in the power of the Spirit from Jerusalem round to Illyricum where he had fully preached the gospel of Christ. That was quite an extensive sphere in those days and this links on with the extensive side of the operations here in relation to the house and especially should we see how the foundational side comes into view. The house being exceeding magnifical as the Spirit of God calls our attention to it through David. Much enters into the foundational side. I think the Lord is seeking to help us in regard to the foundational side; so that we don’t build a tremendous superstructure, as it were, without the foundations right in our souls. Foundations are a very important matter and ministry which bears on that side of the truth. So the bringing in of the sea and the conveyance of the timber by sea refers to one side in relation to the foundations and then the stonemasons in the mountains and the great stones and costly stones and hewn stones all lay stress in this chapter on the foundational side of the truth. I think we might get help in seeing the greatness of the house as it is in mind and the foundations linked with it. Because 1 Kings presents the truth of Christianity, of the assembly from the standpoint of heavenly greatness. It is a vast system of things marked by dignity and greatness. We need to get great thoughts into our minds. We need to be enlarged; not to be narrowed up. We need to see what the Lord has in mind. He has nothing less than the whole assembly in mind as He speaks to Philadelphia. In speaking to Philadelphia He has got the whole assembly in mind. We must not take pretentious ground publicly and say that we are Philadelphia. We must beware of sectarianism, beware of crediting ourselves only with something that the Lord credits to the whole assembly. And the greatness of the house in 1 Kings would remind us of that. Yet in Philadelphia the promises are to those faithful to the truth.
CAI When you speak of the foundational side are you thinking of these trees, cedar trees and the cypress, timber of cedar and timber of cypress, and then the stones?
SMcC Yes, and the processes, that is, the conveyance by sea in regard to the timber and the hewing. Great stones, costly stones and hewn stones, all allude to what enters into the foundational side.
CAI Would you say a little more as to what you have in mind as to the foundational side?
SMcC Well, the Lord would bring us back to the teaching of the glad tidings as to where we are in our souls as to the very foundational features of the truth, both in our links with God and in our links with one another; the epistle to Romans and the epistle to Corinthians all entering into the foundational side.
WHW Do you think in regard to the great thought in our minds that the Lord may have had that in His mind in speaking to the Father in John 17, “The men whom Thou gavest me,” how He stresses that? And it was in their hearing.
SMcC Yes, you mean in the thought of the men.
WHW Yes, and their gathering the great thoughts that were in the Lord’s mind.
SMcC Yes, so that the Lord utters what He says in John 17 in their hearing. How He would elevate them in their minds and thoughts in what He says to the Father, and His great outlook in relation to divine thoughts.
LI Can we see the foundations too as Paul would speak of them in the beginning of the epistle to the Corinthians? He says, “I have laid the foundations.” Would there be something in that epistle that would help us as to the foundations?
SMcC I thought so, “For other foundation can no man lay besides that which is laid which is Jesus Christ.” That is that order of man. He refused the features linked with the first order of man. He aimed in his ministry and in his service at what was linked with the new order of man in Jesus Christ.
GWB Had you in mind to say anything about the cutting of timber by the Zidonians, none being like them?
SMcC Well, the matter of experience at cutting shows that it would reflect the care that enters into the preparation of the material for the house. Think of the Lord’s care in regard to the disciples, the amount of time and service He spent on them. What a tribute to His work in the second of the Acts when the Spirit comes in and the assembly is thus formed. The nucleus of the assembly was the product of the work of Christ in preparing the material for the reception of the Spirit.
GAA Is it noticeable that the building proceeds under restful conditions as we see in this chapter?
SMcC It is very important, because there is the side of conflict linked with the Davidic side of the truth which is important, but on the Solomonic side, the thought of rest and peace is stressed. And it is very striking that all the wealth of the greatness of divine thoughts in regard to Christ and the assembly has come out from that side of things. Colossians and Ephesians were written in the prison where Paul was laid aside from all his labours and had time and opportunity to go over the truth, restfully.
CAI Peace is a great feature in both those epistles, is it not?
SMcC It is. Both in Colossians and in Ephesians a good deal is made of peace.
GW Does the gospel bring to light in the soul, foundations for the house of God?
SMcC Well, it does. The gospel of God concerning His Son, brings into our minds and into our souls the elevation on which God is operating even in the glad tidings, having in mind the house from this viewpoint, the assembly in all its greatness as a divine abode.
AI Paul twice in the second chapter to the Galatians refers to the truth of the glad tidings.
SMcC Exactly, the truth of the glad tidings.
AI I was thinking that perhaps that would be foundational.
SMcC Well, it is, very foundational, entering into our understanding of the glory of redemption. The great foundations that are linked with the way that God has approached men in view of men being liberated from sin and Satan, set up in relation to Himself and His own great thoughts.
TRH Is the end of the epistle to the Romans in just that line, “To him who is able to establish you according to my glad tidings and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery,” and so on? Is that in keeping with what you are suggesting to us?
SMcC Showing how the truth of the glad tidings is leading to this great thought of the assembly.
AM Would you say that the glad tidings in their foundational bearing are set forth in the work in the quarries? Afterwards we find that in the actual building there is neither axe nor hammer. Would that answer more to Ephesians and Colossians?
SMcC I suppose it would. The fitting corresponds with Ephesians 2, where it says, “In whom all the building fitted together increases to a holy temple in the Lord.” That would correspond to the latter part you referred to. The epistle to the Romans enters into the thought of the sea. We want to see the water, the need of the water. How it is needed, the water. Romans stresses the water in regard to baptism. It involves the administration of death in a basic way.
GWB Is there something for us in the thought of rafts, by sea in rafts?
SMcC Well, there might be. I don’t know just what might be conveyed in it. We have to work out the truth with others. We find that even in relation to the foundational side that we are set together with others in the working out of the truth.
LI In referring to the sea, you are thinking of Romans 6, are you? But the process is different with the stones. Would that be the seventh? What did you have in mind in the two processes?
SMcC Well, the sixth of Romans would enter into the teaching in relation to the sea, because the water comes in there in baptism, the death of Christ bearing on our deliverance from the world. All that enters into the preparation of the material for the house of God.
ARG You had in mind the conveying of the materials, did you not? What is the thought in that? You mentioned it in your brief outline, did you not?
SMcC Well, the stress on the water. 1 Kings makes a lot of the water and we need to make a lot of the water. We need to make a lot of the water side of the teaching in the truth of the glad tidings. It is one thing to know the side linked with the blood. That is an important side, the expiation of guilt. John insists in his epistle in relation to the truth of the glad tidings on the water and the blood. He says, “This is he that came by water and blood ... not by water only but by water and blood.” So that we are to keep both sides in mind. But this here is not stressing the side of the blood but stressing the side of the water, involving purification through death. It involves the administration of death.
WHW Would that correspond with the early chapters of the Acts where baptism comes into view and is stressed?
SMcC It shows that as the truth of the assembly was established and proceeding in relation to the apostles’ doctrine and teaching, much was made of baptism in the early chapters of the Acts.
AM To Saul it was said, “Arise and get baptised and have thy sins washed away.”
SMcC We might say, “Well, only God can wash away sins.” But there is the word to Paul to arise and wash away his sins, baptism being the means, the “modus operandi” in the matter.
DRT Is it interesting to see that the beloved apostle mentions names, persons in whom the foundations would be seen, in Corinthians 1? He says a good deal as to baptism in that chapter.
SMcC He does. There is not so much difficulty in our time as to the ordinance of baptism. There are two ordinances in Christianity and only two; the ordinance of baptism and the ordinance of the Lord’s supper. And there is not much difficulty in regard to the ordinance. The difficulty is, I suppose, in the teaching of the glad tidings in relation to baptism; separation from the world, from the great sin system. We can never be rightly in the assembly unless the truth of the water from that standpoint is fully made room for in our souls.
WHU Is there any suggestion in being brought from Lebanon by sea, the timber I was speaking of?
SMcC Well, the sea is stressing the water side. We must keep in mind that the cedars have in mind the dignity of the saints from this viewpoint, as set up in the house of God. The house of God is marked by the cedar on the inside. It is the suggestion of spiritual dignity, the dignity of those who are in mind, but then the sea suggests the water process.
CAI It is remarkable, would you think, that it is in such an extensive form, the idea of the sea?
SMcC Well, it is. One was saying that 1 Kings makes a good deal of the water. You get the formal administration of cleansing suggested in the sea which held two thousand baths of water, then you get the ten lavers which contained additional supplies of water. Why all this stress on the water in 1 Kings? I believe it is to help us to see that we can only reach the great thoughts as to the assembly in the light of the type here, as much is made of the water. That is, the death of Christ in its separating and purifying aspect.
EJW Would you say why Hiram makes the proposal to use the sea, rather than Solomon?
SMcC You are alluding to verse 9. Well, Hiram comes into the subject. We have been going a little bit ahead without taking account of Hiram. He is a remarkable person, this Hiram. It says in verse 1 “And Hiram king of Tyre sent his servants to Solomon for he had heard that they had anointed him king in the place of his father, for Hiram always loved David.” Now, he represents a feature that we have to be on the lookout for. There are different features that appear in different ways like Moses’ father-in-law, and others like him. Rahab is another one. How they come on to view in relation to the truth, suggesting, I think, that in regard to the immensity of the scope of divine operations, we are to be on the outlook in regard to where God is working and operating. Because Hiram does not belong to Israel.
RC Would you say that this is no secret love but it is practical and active?
SMcC It is a great matter that our love should be practical and active. It says, “For Hiram always loved David.” He represents a certain mysterious feature connected with the work of God.
CAI Persons that we generally may not expect much from, but they come into view as moving toward Solomon in this great matter.
SMcC Yes, like the man whom he sends out of Tyre to help in the forming of the vessels of brass. It says, “King Solomon sent and fetched Hiram out of Tyre.” He was a widow’s son of the tribe of Naphtali and his father was a man of Tyre, a worker in brass. These are peculiar elements that come to light in the building of the house in relation to Solomon. We are to be on the outlook for this kind of thing.
WHW Would it be too much to say that Hiram really, in what he does, brings out what is in Solomon’s mind? I was wondering whether he does not provide a link between all that God established in the reign of David with what He is going to establish in the reign of Solomon.
SMcC Well, I think he does. Just like Rahab sets on certain matters with the spies in regard to their service. And just like Reuel or Jethro sets on certain matters with Moses in Exodus 18. These elements are remarkable in that way, that they bring out certain things which are taken on. You will remember, Jethro brought out the matter as to administration and Moses took it on.
EBr Do you think that the feature of spiritual expectancy might provide the opportunity for God to bring this into the testimony at any time. Peter, also, on the housetop getting ready for Cornelius to be brought in.
SMcC Exactly, so that as we have been saying, we are to be on the outlook for what God may be doing in a mysterious kind of way, in others.
DRT Timothy coming on the scene, with a good genealogy on his mother’s side, his father a Greek. Paul finds him.
SMcC Timothy comes on to the scene as one who has a good testimony of the brethren. Apparently he was known among the brethren.
ARG Would you make it a little clearer as to how far this outlook is to extend? Have you in mind the brethren that we thankfully walk with, or have you something a little beyond that?
SMcC We should always have in mind what God may be doing at large. The work of God is remarkable and we are not to be narrowed in our view but we are to think of what God may be doing and what God may be bringing in, in relation to His thoughts. John speaks of the great fish in the 21st chapter.
ARG You sometimes find a great lover of Christ, would you say? Would it be a fellow believer that might not be walking with us? Is it going too far to say that?
SMcC Well, there may be those who love Christ; they do not go all the way. Because Hiram does not belong to Jerusalem. He does not appear in Jerusalem, apparently. He comes up to see the cities that Solomon gave him and he does not seem to appreciate them fully. So we cannot make too much of him, except to say that there is something there. There is a link with the testimony, there is a love for Christ in type in his love for David.
GAA Would that fit in with what we have in John 6, in connection with Andrew? He knows what is going on in connection with the little lad.
SMcC Well, that little lad appeared. He has got something that the Lord takes on and makes something of it.
RN Solomon seems to realise that this element you are speaking of, of love for Christ, is essential. A little later on he says, verse 6, “And my servants shall be with thy servants.” He recognizes that that element is necessary in the labour.
SMcC So we are to take account of how the testimony, as in David, had affected others. We want to think of the bearing of the truth on others, even the bearing of the truth of Christianity on the powers that be in Christian areas. We have to give thanks for whatever influence the truth has on such around us.
CM I was going to ask in relation to the water; the eunuch in Acts 8 saw the necessity of it.
SMcC Yes. So we are to see the importance of this kind of element in Hiram. Not that we can make too much of him. But he is there as always being a lover of David. And he is linking on with Solomon, that is, he is linking on with Solomon in the sense of what he appreciated in David.
TPM Has that to do with the foundation work in a particular way?
SMcC Well, it has. Think of how the Lord could speak of the centurion in the early chapters of Luke. He says He had not found so great faith in Israel. He felt that it was not right that the Lord should come under his roof. He was a remarkable man,
showing that God might be doing outside of the realm of Israel.
AM The Lord said in His address to Sardis there were those who had not defiled their garments, even in that system.
SMcC Our brethren are there and we are to think of our brethren in these systems, these circumstances. And we have to pray for them, for their emancipation and deliverance.
RN I was just enquiring as to the end of verse 6, whether there is any weakness in Solomon having to own, “There is not among us any experienced in cutting timber like to the Zidonians.” I was only wondering as to our weakness in the preaching of the gospel and securing material. Much of what is built into the house now comes from other directions.
SMcC Well, there may be something of that in it. I had not thought of that. We are dealing with a type. We cannot put too much into it and the question is as to the character of the house and the kind of material that is needed for it. It is not ordinary material. It is material of a specific kind and character requiring a specific kind and character of processing, and I think especially stresses the dignity of the assembly, the personnel of the assembly from this viewpoint, that so much work, so much service is expended on the preparation of it.
WRS Would the stress on service here link with the idea of bondmen in Romans 6, that you were referring to? Would that be a foundational thought relative to the assembly?
SMcC Yes, it is to stress that in Solomon’s system we have those that are available to carry on whatever is necessary to be carried on, the work. It all involves the work. The work has to be carried on and there are those that are at hand to carry it on, just as in Luke 15, the father speaks to the bondmen. There are those who are willing to do the work as it has to be done.
Ques Solomon had a great valuation of the cedars, did he not? He spoke of them in the previous chapter. Would that help us to value the material that is to come forward in the building of the house?
SMcC Well, I am sure it should, because it brings out the greatness of the saints, of the assembly in the type, that so much work and labour is expended on them in preparation for the house.
CAI Basically they are great. The cedar would give that idea, would it, the timber?
SMcC It would, so that we are to remember the basic side in the truth and the great need, especially in view of the generation coming on to fill out their part and place in the testimony, the great need that the basic side should be right, the foundation should be right.
CAI Do we need to think of each one in preaching or seeking after souls, to have in our view the sons of God? “Ye are all God’s sons by faith in Christ Jesus.” That would be the basic side to commence with, would it?
SMcC Yes, the preaching of the glad tidings would have in mind the securing of the personnel, the material for the house. From this viewpoint the glad tidings is not just a matter of relieving persons. It involves that, but the securing of material for the great and dignified thought of the assembly in the light of 1 Kings, a heavenly system of things.
DAI Is that the idea in Matthew? The disciples were sent out to make disciples of all nations. The idea of making disciples.
SMcC Making them. That enters into what we are saying that it is the process, the work expended on the material.
SL There is much material today that really is not available to the Lord. Have you in mind that some of this material, so to speak, may be secured for the pleasure of the Lord in the present day?
SMcC I am sure the Lord is securing it. We hear constantly of results in relation to the greatness of divine activities, in the way that souls are coming into the truth as the dispensation is about to be completed.
SL One was thinking of how much is unavailable to the Lord and we should carry exercise of heart as to it, should we not, feelingly?
SMcC Well, exactly. We are to be in line with divine Persons and what they are doing in view of the greatness of the assembly. The assembly is a great matter and the securing of the material for the assembly is a great matter. They are no ordinary persons, we might say. It is no ordinary material.
GWB Is there encouragement in the fact that in the securing of this material, while the Zidonians were outstanding, Solomon is able to provide thirty thousand, ten thousand in their courses?
SMcC Well, it all suggests that there are plenty to carry on the work and we should see that. We are all to be in the work, the carrying on of the work in relation to the great divine thoughts as to the assembly. There is room for all of us.
WHW Does the thought of hire, in verse 6, show the consideration of Christ for all those who are helping in this work?
SMcC Yes, it would. He says, “And now command that they hew me cedar trees out of Lebanon and my servants shall be with thy servants and I will give thee hire for thy servants according to all that thou shalt say, for thou knowest that there is not amongst us any that are experienced in cutting timber like to the Zidonians.” That is, this work requires a special character of processing. That is stressed in this verse, and the Lord is entering into the matter in type in Solomon.
EJW Do you think that was lacking in the twelve men in Ephesus in the 19th of Acts? Did Paul bring in his gospel to rectify the position? I was wondering whether the foundations were lacking, with the twelve men? They were only baptised to John’s baptism.
SMcC Exactly. There was something wrong in the teaching.
WHW Would the Lord, in the working out of the type here, be recognizing the gifts that He was given, in Solomon speaking of the Zidonians in this way, in connection with this processing you are speaking of?
SMcC The system would be under his hand, and he is drawing upon it in regard to this matter, operating through this means, in verse 6. The Lord has the means of operating in this way in view of the preparation of the material for the house.
WHW So that in the 13th of Acts the Spirit says, “Separate me now Barnabas and Saul.” He chose those two out of those that were mentioned, did He not?
SMcC The feature of experience and what is best fitted for the work, is a great matter. You will remember that in 2 Samuel 18, the Cushite was to run with the news and another man comes into view as wanting to run, but he is brought to an ignominious end. He is told to stand aside, that he did not have the message. That is, it is a question of what is suitable for the work, the ones that are fitted for the work.
TRH The Lord says in Matthew, “First, Peter.” Does He operate in Peter’s soul so that he fills out the position that He had in His mind for him, in the assembly?
SMcC Well, exactly, and the importance of experience,
workmen that need not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. That is the great important matter. In what we were discussing yesterday, where difficulties enter is in not rightly dividing the word of truth. There is the abstract side and there is the concrete side as to the truth.
TPMc And would you think applying the truth in that way would become experience?
SMcC Therefore the experience of Paul in 1 Corinthians 11, the skill of Paul in the way he applies the truth as in 1 Corinthians 5, for instance. He says, in verse 6, “Your boasting is not good. Do ye not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? Purge out the old leaven that ye may be a new lump according as ye are unleavened.” Now think of the skill of Paul, in the way that he brings the truth in in this first letter. How, even, despite what marked them concretely, with all the sin among them, he stressed the abstract side, as he says, “According as ye are unleavened.” That shows the skill of Paul in his manner of operation in the ministry.
HB Is it similar to where in writing to the Galatians he says, “Because ye are sons.”
SMcC Exactly. That is, that we are sons before we get the Spirit. We are not constituted sons by the gift of the Spirit. It is because we are sons that God has sent out the Spirit of His Son into our hearts.
ATS Would it be diverting you, to say a little more about what is meant by the straight line, cutting in a straight line the word of truth?
SMcC We might read that verse in 2 Timothy 2:15. It says, “Strive diligently to present thyself approved to God, a workman that has not to be ashamed, cutting in a straight line the word of truth.” And then he says, “But profane and vain babblings shun for they will advance to greater impiety and their word will spread as a gangrene.” The cutting in a straight line the word of truth involves our knowledge of the truth. And we do not mix things together, we do not run one truth into the other in a mixed kind of way, but we keep the lines of the truth straight in our minds. Perhaps you would say something about it. You have been thinking about it.
ATS I was enquiring whether what is foundational would underlie it. If we were grounded in what is foundational, would it underlie the ability to cut in a straight line?
SMcC Well, it would. That is where the importance comes in, that in our knowledge of the truth foundationally and our being built up in the truth we learn how to cut in a straight line the word of truth. We all know what apprenticeship is. We know how we have to learn at trades before we become journeymen. We have the same principle seen in the levites of old who had to serve under others before they came into full fledged levitical service. And in that they learned how to operate and to work levitically. The book of Numbers shows this.
EB Can you explain further what you were starting to say about testimony?
SMcC Well, the assembly is the pillar and base of the truth. And all testimony would rightly work out from the assembly. The assembly is the base of all divine operations according to the teaching in the New Testament. And the testimony is particularly centred in the assembly, the house of God at the present time.
JR Would the cutting in the straight line be seen in connection with things we can remember ourselves in regard to the Lord’s Sonship? You know what was commonly held in regard to the Lord’s Sonship and it was brought out about the year 1929, was it not, as to the Lord’s Sonship referring to Him in manhood?
Would that be cutting in a straight line the word of truth?
SMcC Well, it is, showing that the truth as to our Lord’s Sonship did not belong to a past eternity. Our Lord’s Sonship belongs to His position in manhood. That was cutting in a straight line the word of truth where men were operating the truth to suit the human way of thinking in regard of the matter.
JR So in that way Aquila and Priscilla helped Apollos.
SMcC You refer to Acts 18. Yes, they took him aside and helped him in what they said to him as to the truth, a great service to be rendered.
JR I thought they had companied with Paul and consequently were able to adjust him in relation to the truth according to Paul.
SMcC Yes.
JR Do you think it is important that family feelings and instincts should be prominent in those who serve? They appear to be prominent in the early part of this chapter we read.
SMcC Yes, the stress on the love side in Hiram to begin with and then in verse 3, “Thou knowest that David my father could not build a house unto the name of Jehovah his God, because of the wars which were about him on every side, until Jehovah put them under the soles of his feet. But now Jehovah my God has given me rest on every side, there is neither adversary nor evil event. And behold, I purpose to build a house unto the name of Jehovah my God as Jehovah spoke to David my father saying, Thy son whom I will set upon thy throne in thy stead, he shall build a house unto my name.” That is, the realm of sonship is impressed on our minds in relation to the house, it is not the militant side as in David, but the side of sonship as in Solomon, that is linked with the house in 1 Kings.
NW So the idea of a house necessarily involves that there are to be those who inhabit it. The ones who inhabit it are going to be the sons.
SMcC Well, of course, in Kings the house is God’s habitation, not our habitation. It is God’s habitation and the saints compose that habitation.
WHW I was wondering in connection with what you are saying, if verse 8 does not bring in an important feature in the willingness of Hiram to do all that Solomon says, “I will do all thy desire concerning timber of cedar ... “ etc. Is that not an important feature in the working of these things out amongst brethren?
SMcC It is a very important thing to see how the work goes forward and the willingness that enters into it. And what he says, “I will do all thy desire concerning timber of cedar and concerning timber of cypress.” Now we know that the cedar had to do with the inside and the cypress had to do with the outside. The cedar alludes to the side of privilege and the cypress more to the outward side of responsibility. Or as the word has been used, if you want to use it, the testimonial side.
AI Does God take account of where there are desires in relation to His house and the furthering of that side? Does He grant those desires and bring things to pass in relation to it?
SMcC Well. He does, so that we find how Paul is concerned in regard to the heavenly side of the truth, how much labour and service he spends in prayer, and God no doubt brought about Paul’s desires in relation to the conditions at Ephesus in regard to all his exercises.
RC Would the cypress suggest then as taking up responsibility as being a fir, that you are ever ready, not green one day and dry the next?
SMcC That is it. The cedar suggests the side of dignity but the cypress suggests the side of freshness. And we need freshness in regard to maintaining of things.
RC Does sonship in that way bring in freshness as you think of Jesus saying, “I ought to be occupied in my Father’s business.”
SMcC Luke stresses the side of freshness in the Lord Jesus under the eye of God, in humanity here.
ARG Are we to labour then to furnish that amongst the saints, these two sides, do you think, dignity and freshness; the interior and the exterior?
SMcC Yes, so that the whole thought is provided for. We can see the greatness of what is in mind here. It is not just one little corner but the whole position is in mind in regard to the assembly. The Lord would like to bring great thoughts into our minds. That is the whole point in Philadelphia. He has got nothing less than the whole assembly in His mind. Not a particular section where the truth is working out but the whole position is in His mind as to the assembly.
ARG So that we do well to keep acquainted with the universal side of the assembly and all the movements relative to it.
SMcC Exactly. What the Lord is doing everywhere.
CAI Do you think the Lord has nothing less than all the saints in Nelson in His mind in these matters, locally?
SMcC Well, He has. He would like to have them all in it, but they are not available. And we would like to have them all in it, but they are not available to us.
NW Was this the outlook of Peter and John in Acts 4? I was thinking of the lame man who was outside. They took him by the hand and he entered in with them. He was found there as really part of the system, was he not?
SMcC He is on the way and he represents a good result, but the assembly is not stressed so much in that chapter.
DRT Is there a beautiful cluster of cedars and cypresses in the last chapter of Romans? I was thinking too of the way labour is mentioned so much in that chapter.
SMcC Yes. Romans 16, shows us the kind of personnel, the kind of material that has been secured through the truth of the glad tidings, the operating of the truth of the glad tidings. What personnel they are!
WHW Does verse 9 bear on the intelligent preaching of the glad tidings, in that a soul is brought to a definite point? I mean that the gospel has been so presented that he is brought to a definite place.
SMcC A very important thing in regard to service in the gospel is that we do not leave souls at loose ends with difficulties in their minds as to just what is the divine intent. All this would signify in our minds the service linked with the securing of the material, how effective it is and how divine objectives are in mind.
WHW Is there a grading of service there as well? “My servants shall bring them down ... “ etc. Then, “I will convey them by sea.” Hiram takes the matter on at a certain point. Was it because he knows more of Solomon than his servants do?
SMcC The whole operation involving the securing of the material is interesting in that light, where the material reaches its final place.
WC After the action of the sea in verse 9, it says, “And will cause them to be broken up there.” Have you anything in mind about that?
SMcC Well, just the fact that another process comes on to view. It says, “And thou shalt receive them. And thou shalt accomplish my desire in giving food for my household.” That is, brought to a certain position and then something else comes about. “I will convey them by sea in rafts to the place that thou shalt appoint me and will cause them to be broken up there and thou shalt receive them.” That is, they are coming under the hand of Christ now, typified in Solomon.
WC I was thinking of persons who receive baptism in its true light. How easily they are available, are they not? How they work in so easily in the building.
SMcC Well, where you get the water having its proper place with us there will not be too much difficulty with the material. The difficulty with us is that the water side of the death of Christ has not got the place that it should have, therefore, we perhaps, make more room for the world or the man after the flesh than we should, in our souls. The water would negate the man after the flesh in me.
ARG It seems indispensable here, does it not? There is no getting the material to the appointed place without the water.
SMcC That is right. That is, we cannot ignore the water.
GWB Does that not help in relation to what you were speaking of earlier, the cutting in a straight line? The knowledge of that is inflexible, is it not, it does not alter, what is involved in the water? The principle you are speaking of in relation to the water, negating everything that is of the first man.
SMcC John’s ministry would stress in our minds the importance of the water, that we cannot work out the truth of Christ and the assembly without the water, without a purified state of soul. It is emphasized in John’s ministry, both in the gospel and in the epistles.
LI So John does not speak of the assembly formally but is very concerned about the personnel, we have often been told, or in other words about the material.
SMcC He stresses the kind of material, the greatness of the material that forms the assembly, and each one having so much expended on him in relation to fitting him for his part, you might say, in the system. You take John 4, John 9, it is all to impress us with that, is it not?
LI Yes, and I was thinking of the service of the Spirit, too, right at the outset, born of water and the Spirit. Would that give an indication of what divine Persons have in mind as to the water?
SMcC All stressing the cleansing and purifying side. The water would meet that state in my soul.
CM Do you think we should get the gain of the present service of the Lord Jesus as mentioned in Ephesians 5: 26 in relation to the assembly, the washing of the water by the word?
SMcC Well, there is another side of the water that is mentioned. You might say all the ministry carries the element of it, a purifying, cleansing effect. So that we are free from the man according to the flesh, free from the world with all that is attached to it, in view of our part in divine things. We might finish with just a word as to the 17th verse as to, “The king commanded and they brought great stones, costly stones, hewn stones to lay the foundation of the house.” We are reminded in this of another side, not the timber side but the greatness of the stones. As we have been referring to it, John’s ministry would impress us with the greatness of the saints, individually, before they are set together in relation to the house, the hewing suggesting the moral side; the great stones suggesting, no doubt, what the saints are in the divine mind; the costly side; the side of purchase; and the hewn stones, the moral exercises that enter into the preparation.
LI Why does Peter refer to these stones as coming to the living stone? Here there is a great deal of service to get them there. Is it two sides of the same matter?
SMcC I think so. Peter refers to what is living. There is an affinity between the stones and the Stone; between the saints and Christ.
GAA Do the hewn stones take us back to the foundational side again?
SMcC Yes, all this is bearing on the foundational side. It is a great thing to keep it in mind in our part in the work, that the work involves this; the great stones, the costly stones, the hewn stones. If we got this into our souls we would be very careful about writing off any of the brethren, because look at the value they have in the divine mind.
GAA Peter speaks of them as living stones.
SMcC Yes, stressing the side of life in them.
HB So it says we are to remember the Rock whence we have been hewn. If each stone has been hewn from the Rock we would have respect for each and would not think of writing any off, would we?
SMcC The Lord has been helping us to balance the great truth as to the assembly so that in making much of the assembly as an entity, we do not forget what enters into the composition of the assembly, the great components of the assembly in the personnel who form it; the great stones, the costly stones, and the hewn stones. Think of all the labour that has been spent on the saints as they form the house of God.
LI Would the costliness of the stone be suggested in “The weak brother for whose sake Christ died?” He was not to be set aside, was he?
SMcC No, a costly stone, and if we knew that how it would promote priestly and shepherdly activities in helping one another. Because we have been secured at such a great cost, and the persons of the assembly are great persons, and we would serve in view of their being held in relation to these great thoughts.
GWB So that is, there is some suggestion to us in the 80,000 stonemasons and 70,000 that bore burdens? Would the bearing of burdens come into that?
SMcC Well, exactly. We want to bear burdens. We are very much inclined to leave others to bear the burdens, but each one should take up his share in burden bearing. We would maybe all like to shape the saints our way, but thank God, the work of shaping them is not exactly left to us, it is under Solomon’s hand, Solomon had them. Solomon is over the whole matter.
WHW Would you say the Lord draws that out in Luke 21 in reference to the widow that cast in the two mites? He has quite something to say about her, has He not?
SMcC He has, and the same with the unnamed woman who anoints Him in Bethany. What others would write off, the Lord is making something of, is He not?
JR Do you think the thought of suffering would come with the costly stones?
SMcC Well, it does. That is, there is the side of redemption. You get it in the thought of the assembly itself. Paul says (and the thought is in his mind) to the elders, “Shepherd the assembly of God which he has purchased with the blood of his own.” That is to remind us of the cost and the shepherding would involve the members. It says, “Take heed, therefore, to yourselves and to all the flock wherein the Holy Spirit has set you as overseers, to shepherd the assembly of God which he has purchased with the blood of his own.” If we viewed that side and valued that side more, what care we would be prepared to expend on one another, when persons get down in their souls, to help them in view of their part in the divine system.
WHW Would that thought of the great stones be set out in Matthew 16, when the Lord says to Peter, “Thou art Peter”?
SMcC Exactly. What a stone he was and what a place he had in the assembly.