READING ON COLOSSIANS 2
READING ON COLOSSIANS 2
JT Notice the references to combat. The apostle says, “I would have you know what combat I have for you, and those in Laodicea, and as many as have not seen my face in flesh”. There are other references to combat in the epistle which may help us, especially Epaphras, of whom it is said “Always combating earnestly for you in prayers, to the end that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God”. This brother probably suggested the epistle to be written to the Colossians, as if they needed the instruction that the letter affords. Epaphras combated for them and the apostle did, too.
Ques Why does he say that he would have them to know this? What is particularly in mind when he speaks not only of them but others in Laodicea? Would the others come down to our day?
JT It is a comfort to know that such a one as Paul or even a lesser is thinking of us in this sense, especially as informed as to some local condition.
Rem You think in that connection that we are apt to forget that this combat is going on with those who have this desire to present every man perfect in Christ.
JT That is so; and another thing that comes into that is the fact that we are dealing with an epistle intended for Gentiles, not such as Hebrews or other epistles where the Jews are involved — Jewish Christians. This is a suggestion of the position of Christ typified in Joseph. Joseph was a man of affairs who had much care, whereas Isaac was another type of Christ in relation to the assembly — Isaac was a man of leisure. So this epistle speaks of Christ among the Gentiles from which we could imply that [p. 138] the Lord has much on His hands, the pressure being great and the service being great — the need of serving the saints then this combat. It all involves the Lord’s extreme concern about us. It would be reflected in those who serve Him in the ministry, especially if any information has been given as to any local company, and how that is to be met.
Rem The great concern and exercise is this matter of standing perfect and complete in the will of God.
JT Quite so; “in all the will of God”.
Rem He addresses them as holy and faithful brethren in the first chapter. There was a good state there.
JT Yes — a good meeting with certain dangers attaching to it. It is an advantage to the ministers to know what dangers may be current in any local company.
Ques Is it a good point that he says, “Epaphras, who is one of you”?
JT I suppose he must have informed Paul as to local conditions. Paul had never been there. They had not seen his face in the flesh, but Epaphras would inform the apostle. I suppose the fact that he is mentioned in this way, “Even as ye learned from Epaphras, our beloved fellow-bondman, who is a faithful minister of Christ for you, who has also manifested to us your love in the Spirit”, and then later “Epaphras, who is one of you, the bondman of Christ Jesus, salutes you, always combating earnestly for you in prayers, to the end that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God”, shows that he would be leading personally in the whole position. We can find in the local companies persons who are outstanding and carry things before God — they labour in prayer before God, and then if need be inform others who might be able to help and meet the difficulty.
Rem Combating would go beyond prayer.
JT Yes. It would be a question of Satan’s power having to be faced. “Satan has hindered us”, Paul says to the Thessalonians, and there are men like Epaphras who take the matter up for the Lord and His interests, like a Daniel — persons who can always be counted on. The Lord alludes to persons who are sown — sons of the kingdom. Here and there where the Lord’s interests are, persons are sown; persons whom the Lord can rely on.
Rem He puts them where He wants them by a certain process.
JT A ‘certain process’ is the right word. It might be by a bit of information that reaches one. There are many ways the Lord has of teaching His servants so that they may be sown here and there. When He reaches Gethsemane in the hour of distress He disposed of those that were with Him to the best advantage. They did not act very well, but that was the idea.
Rem I think you have often said that He divided them. There were the three, Peter, James and John, who would suggest in a certain way the assembly, and then the eight would signify the thought of what was eternal, do you think?
JT I believe that is right.
Rem I have an idea that it seems to suggest eternity as reached by the ways of God.
JT What we are told here is clear, that this brother Epaphras is a person known to the Lord. He is a man who will not turn aside if any difficulty arises, he will face it as far as he can. He will be at home when anything is up in the way of conflict. This brother, although he was away at this moment, he was clearly in the position to meet the local situation at Colosse and Laodicea. Paul says he is “a faithful minister of Christ for you”. The word is, a man who would take up a position and meet it at whatever cost. He is a local man acquainting the brethren with the position in Colosse, perhaps in [p. 140] Laodicea, too, but he is a man that carries things and that is the great point in assembly service. The opening of assembly service in the plural is taken from Paul and Barnabas, “Having chosen them elders in each assembly” — men that heaven would reckon on to look after things. This brother is such a one as that, one that would care for this meeting, we will say. He will have in his heart that there are certain conditions in this meeting and would carry them before the Lord, and if needed he will be there if the enemy is attacking, and meet him. Paul tells us elsewhere how to meet the enemy and where he is. It is in heavenly places. Not in wilderness conditions, the position where Satan has power is heaven. He has power in the wilderness, too, but when it is the assembly, it is a heavenly matter which is to be met on heavenly lines. Epaphras is a minister to them. “Who is one of you, the bondman of Christ Jesus, salutes you”. Paul is writing to them, but Epaphras joins in in the letter. “Always combating earnestly for you in prayers, to the end that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God”. It seems to me that this is important to have before us at the present time.
Rem He would be a local brother given over to prayer in an intense way. Would that signify the kind of man he would be? Not necessarily trying to meet these things by his own words — he left that to an abler man. What marks the man is an intense form of prayer.
Rem It seems to be in secret. The apostle tells them that he was praying for them.
JT Quite so. Paul was in thorough accord with Epaphras, showing how the ministry stands at the present time. We have no apostles, but we have those who serve in faithfulness — there are many. They are acquainted with conditions. The many who move about over the whole earth where the brethren are,
[p. 141] are conversant with the situations. They have assembly ears and hear from others what happens. Their services are governed accordingly.
Ques You were referring in prayer to the need for discernment. Is not Epaphras one who discerned what was needed and had the ability to acquaint others?
JT I refer to Abigail who is really a type of the assembly herself. She was the wife of Nabal who was a hard type of man. One of her young men, one of Nabal’s young men actually, was loyal to the truth concerning the matter that Abigail was concerned about, and he lays the matter before her. Meaning that if a brother sees there is something likely to damage the assembly he would lay it before someone who can act. Abigail acts immediately. She furnishes food for David and his men. She came down the hill at the same time as David did and met him on a plain where it could be talked about. In due course David says to her, after considerable mutual discourse, “Blessed be thy discernment, and blessed be thou”. I think that is quite apropos of what we have here in Colossians. It is the Gentile position which was under the range of Paul’s ministry, but he had not had occasion to be there. It is, however, in his diocese, as it were. He is minister of the assembly for the Gentiles. Paul writes to Colosse, not Peter. So it is a question of the responsibility that may attach to any minister and how to meet any local conditions. Apparently Paul had in mind that his combat for them would be encouraging to them when they knew about it. “I would have you know what combat I have for you, and those in Laodicea, and as many as have not seen my face in flesh; to the end that their hearts may be encouraged”.
Ques I wonder if Paul’s desires and prayers merged with those of Epaphras in that way.
[p. 142] JT I would think so. I think the movement began with the local man.
Ques Is it suggested that as the thing is carried in this way it will have this encouraging effect, and then the further thought of uniting them together in love?
JT Quite so. “Unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the full knowledge of the mystery of God”. He had great thoughts as to them. The whole idea of the mystery of God.
Rem “In which are hid all the treasures of wisdom and of knowledge”.
JT Showing how elevated is the position taken on by Paul.
Ques Would the ministry in this epistle be on the lines that we have in the first chapter, “Christ in you the hope of glory”?
JT That is what it is exactly. Referring to the type of Joseph — it is Christ in Egypt. Joseph was in Egypt and was head over the administration of the food, which is a matter about which the Lord would appeal to us all now. It is a question of ministration of food, not actual food but spiritual food. So the Lord says, referring to one who looks after the saints in the sense providing food for them, that when the Lord comes He shall set him over all that He has. He is one who provides a measure of meat for the saints in due season.
Rem In regard to what you are saying as to Joseph, we have been wondering if you get Christ in the Solomonic position in this epistle. It speaks of Solomon’s table and the provision that he should make.
JT Quite so. I think Nehemiah’s table is more suitable in speaking of Colosse. Solomon is more universal — more Ephesian, but Colossians is more limited, so that is “Christ in you the hope of glory”, meaning Christ in the sense of being in us by the [p. 143] Spirit. The apostle is concerned as to the terrible attack that had been made. “I say this to the end that no one may delude you by persuasive speech”. We have to watch — we are in the Greek world in this epistle.
Ques What is philosophy here?
JT It is what the natural mind would evolve by the devil’s power to corrupt the saints.
Rem In your prayer you referred to the appearances of the Lord, how He appeared to those who had been toiling all night and told them to cast on the right side, and they did not discern it was the Lord. On another occasion He says, “Children, have ye any meat?” and provides it.
JT Very good. I am glad you brought that up. The thought is manifestation in John. John bears on the last days, and that chapter is an appendix. Chapter 20 is really the finish of the gospel in the main, but the Lord comes in in chapter 21 on the point of food. There were seven of them, I think, and Peter said . “I go to fish”. (John 21: 3) and they say “We also go with thee”. It was a diversion from the whole position, which has happened many times in the history of the assembly. The Lord does not upbraid them but calls them “Children” — very beautiful He says to them, “Have ye any meat? They answered him, No. And he said unto them, Cast the net on the right side of the ship, and ye shall find”. Earlier He had asked Peter to cast the net out, and Peter did, and they had a great catch and the net brake, but not this time. It is a comfort that what we have now is the Colossian position, we have the power of resurrection to count on. It is “through faith of the working of God who raised him from among the dead”.
Ques Are we all in peculiar danger of diversion?
JT We are always in danger of that. This matter in John 21 comes into what we are saying [p. 144] because it is a question of food. We all know the world is short of food just now, but we are concerned about spiritual food and the world is short of that, too. The question is whether we have enough here. The matter of food bears on our position. We were speaking of a brother who ministers a portion of meat to the household. All the saints are part of Christ’s household. We are providing food for the saints. Our Bible readings have that character. The Lord says to the brethren, instead of reproving them for their unfaithfulness, “Children, have ye any meat?” It brings out the tenderness of His feelings for them.
Rem The word ‘children’ there is a word of peculiar affection.
JT It reminds us of Isaiah 9: “the everlasting Father”. It means He is having that position in the millennium — the Father of the age — the millennial day, He is to act as Father. Washington was the father of his country — Christ is the Father of the millennium. So here, He says “Children”. There was a fire of coals and fish laid thereon and bread. That was the Father’s doing — I mean Christ as the Father. The Lord says, “Cast the net at the right side of the ship and ye will find”, and they did — “great fishes”. We may look for something like that in these last days. Peter came to the land and they found the coals and the fish and bread. Now the Lord says, What you have got, bring that, too. He would graciously connect with what we have got to add to the food. Any one of us might be adding to the food. That is what John 21 brings out, it was the third manifestation of Christ.
Rem They got food as a result of failure in that expedition.
JT The Lord did not upbraid them. At times He passes over things in order to secure us. He secured them fast, for He finally adjusted Peter in that same chapter.
[p. 145] Rem There was no question of Peter being regulated by the will of God. If food is to be brought in for the saints it will be by those who are concerned about being in the will of God.
JT It will be brought by those who are capable of being affected by the grace of God. Their wills were at work. “I go to fish”. (John 21: 3) That was not serious — a root matter. We have to discern as to whether matters are root or superficial. In this case their real state was superficial, therefore He immediately restores them and brings them into what He is doing — connects what they had done with what He is doing. They had food, too, and the Lord credits them with having it. It is very beautiful to see the Lord knows how deep the root is or whether it is a root at all. The Lord saw that His work was really not affected. What He did in His disciples was genuine, it was affected for a moment but the damage was not deep, and He could use them immediately. It is to show His grace.
Ques Do they respond to the title of ‘Children’ in that way? Does it show that that which was effected in them was capable of being resuscitated?
JT The Lord deals with us according to our state. In Mark 16 the whole thing seemed to be hopeless — the women were affrighted and saying nothing. The eleven apostles were in unbelief, but the Lord says to them immediately, “Go into all the world, and preach the glad tidings to all the creation”. It shows the depth of the work of God. The apparent damage done to them was superficial.
Rem He was capable of meeting the conditions.
JT Exactly. John brings out the same point, that the Lord does not upbraid them about anything, although they were acting in self-will. He did not even upbraid Peter when he denied Him. “The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon”. John says, “It is the Lord”. He would say that [p. 146] victoriously. We can rely on the Lord and go on. It would afford more confidence in one another, too.
Ques What do you think was in mind in the great fishes?
JT It is what would happen in the last days. There is a suggestion that we may have many real men in the last days.
Rem As the result of His great ways He puts His flock in the hands of Peter.
JT “Feed my sheep”.
Rem They toiled all night and caught nothing.
JT The Lord knew that, too. Yet it is hopeful, because that fire of coals and the fish and bread meant a dinner. It is a thing the Lord is providing for us in spite of our weakness.
Rem He had everything ready for them. My need — God has supplied everything to meet me.
JT But we are to add to it.
Ques Is it never to be diminished to what was already there?
JT Abstractly the thing is never diminished. The dispensation is set up and goes right on to the end.
Rem We should add what is suitable to what is there.
JT Yes.
Rem The casting over to the right side of the ship would be in view of adding to what He has provided.
JT It would mean we are intelligent persons. That is the ground on which Paul writes to the Corinthians. It results in great increase accumulated and continually accumulating.
Ques “Buried with him in baptism, in which ye have been also raised with him through faith of the working of God who raised him from among the dead”. Could we have a word on that?
JT Perhaps we should proceed a little through the chapter first. “As therefore ye have received the [p. 147] Christ, Jesus the Lord, walk in him”. It is a question of what ye have received. “Rooted and built up in him, and assured in the faith, even as ye have been taught, abounding in it with thanksgiving. See that there be no one who shall lead you away as a prey through philosophy and vain deceit”, meaning that Satan’s work is proceeding, “... according to the elements of the world, and not according to Christ. For in Him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily”. This is one of the greatest statements in the epistle — what is in Christ bodily. In chapter 1 we have what is in Him without using the word ‘bodily’. In verse 18 it says, “And he is the head of the body, the assembly; who is the beginning, firstborn from among the dead, that he might have the first place in all things for in him all the fulness of the Godhead was pleased to dwell”. So we have to understand that verse and then understand this verse. “All the fulness of the Godhead bodily” — it is a question of the incarnation, what He is to us and what we are to Him. “Ye are complete in him, who is the head of all principality and authority, in whom also ye have been circumcised with circumcision not done by hand, in the putting off of the body of the flesh, in the circumcision of the Christ”. This is what has just been referred to, “Buried with him in baptism, in which ye have been also raised with him through faith of the working of God who raised him from among the dead”. It is a faith position. We have faith in the power of the Spirit, and we are enabled to see that faith works in us, too.
Ques Is it true of us that we have died in Christ and are raised again?
JT “Buried with him in baptism”. It says, in which ye have been also raised with him.’’ In Romans we are told that we are buried with Christ, but we are not told that we are raised with Christ in that epistle — we are here, however. It is a question [p. 148] of faith. The force of the word ‘baptism’ with a person who is baptised in Romans is ‘buried’, he is to come out of the water, but he is buried, it is not said that he is raised because it does not agree with Romans. Here, however, the coming out of the water of the person who is baptised is continued as though he were risen.
Ques Why is it not ‘shall be raised’? How does it affect the present?
JT On the principle of faith. It is literally future but it is a scriptural way of speaking.
Rem Abraham had faith in the power of God to raise Isaac, and we have the same kind of faith.
JT Quite so. Time is nothing to God — it is as good as done — we are raised. The apostle is using the thought of a person coming out of the water to represent a person in resurrection. It is faith in our souls that is the point.
Rem I hold that by faith all the time here.
JT It is the ground on which we have part in the service of God. We are intended to take the place of being raised with Christ for the service of God.
Ques Is it seeing where Christ is that maintains our faith?
JT Quite so. There is no water in Jordan. There is no water for us because we have the Spirit — it is power, it is God. We have Him.
Ques “Quickened together with him”. Will you open that up?
JT It is a concrete fact. It may be linked on with what we were saying last night, “Raised us up together, and has made us sit down together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus”. That is the full thought of Ephesians, and the apostle can so record it because it is a question of the power of God.
Rem The apostle in the closing words of the preceding chapter speaks of the working of God in power and then amplifies and expands it.
JT Quite so. “According to the working of the might of his strength, in which he wrought in the Christ in raising him from among the dead, and he set him down at his right hand in the heavenlies, above every principality, and authority, and power”. The whole question is God, and what power He has.
Rem What He effectuates is perfect and delightful to Him.
JT On that ground we carry on the service of God, entitled to view ourselves as raised with Jesus Christ. “Buried with him in baptism, in which ye have been also raised with him through faith of the working of God who raised him from among the dead”. We are raised through faith in the working of God. It is as good as if you were raised actually.
Ques Would this reference to resurrection in type link on with the Jordan and what we have in Romans, “walk in newness of life”, more the Red Sea?
JT That is quite right. The Red Sea takes us into the wilderness, the Jordan takes us into the land which is heavenly. That is important.
Ques Would you give us another word on this momentous statement, “For in him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily”? In chapter 1: 19 all the fulness was pleased to dwell in Him, but here it is a present matter. What would you say is suggested by the thought of all the fulness of the Godhead?
JT It is a reference to His deity — God Himself in manhood. He has not changed His deity, although His condition is changed. The word ‘bodily’ refers to the condition, but the Person we are dealing with is divine, is God Himself. John says, We have handled and seen. The Person we are speaking of is absolute. What we are dealing with refers to God as related to ourselves.
Rem This is not a matter of what He was down here, it is what He is and where He is [p. 150] now.
JT For in Him all the fulness was pleased to dwell. That would refer to man because of the idea of dwelling, but the word ‘bodily’ is to bring out the fulness of the incarnation. All is based on God come in flesh. The word is “Became flesh and dwelt among us”.
Rem This word “with him” comes three times. “Buried with him in baptism, in which ye have been also raised with him through faith of the working of God”, and then “Quickened together with him”. They are very choice words.
JT In each baptism was the figure.
Ques The emphasis is on ‘Him’ — the greatness of Christ?
Ques Is it the consciousness we have by the Spirit of being “with him”?
JT That is what comes out in the Colossians. It is a great fact — the greatest fact next to the resurrection and ascension of Christ, is that the Holy Spirit is down here, permanently in us.