CHRIST COMING TO THE ASSEMBLY
[p. 229] CHRIST COMING TO THE ASSEMBLY
Genesis 22:19 - 24; John 20: 16 - 23
JT It is thought that we might arrive at the truth concerning Christ and the assembly, and particularly now as to the Lord’s coming to us. Genesis 22 as a type contemplates the death and resurrection of Christ, but there is the additional fact that Isaac did not come down from the mount when he, as Christ in type, had been offered up, and from this it may be deduced that the Lord in His incoming to the assembly on earth in this period of testimony does not come physically, when we do, nor even in a spiritual sense, but He comes by Himself. Isaac not coming down with Abraham and his young men would intimate that the Lord is to be regarded in that section as in John 20 as coming from heaven, coming from above, and hence we have to see in the book of the Acts that we ourselves assemble by ourselves first, then He comes. We come from our ordinary affairs and assemble, as Acts 20 says, “we being assembled”. We assemble without Him, but He comes according to John 14, “I will not leave you orphans, I am coming to you”. The Spirit remains with us, even in assembly He is with us, and He is the power for all that we do, but the Lord comes. Therefore if there be assembling with Him it is as He comes in, and John 20 shows that He does come and comes in spite of closed doors, that is to say, physical conditions do not affect His coming, so that it is said, “the doors shut”, and again it is said that He came eight days after, to indicate the periodic character of His coming and how the facts indicate that we are in a certain position. The disciples were within in verse 19, “When therefore it was evening on that day, which was the first day of the week, and the doors shut [p. 230] where the disciples were through fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst”, and then it is said, “the disciples rejoiced therefore, having seen the Lord”. Then He says again to them, “Peace be to you: as the Father sent me forth, I also send you” — so that evidently the facts related in John 20 linked on with the passage in Genesis would indicate that the outlook is ultimately testimony on earth, for He says in verse 21, “As the Father sent me forth, I also send you. And having said this, he breathed into them, and says to them, Receive the Holy Spirit: whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted to them; whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained”, so that the outlook is ultimately for testimony on earth, whatever may ensue earlier as the Lord comes in. Hence the period of testimony as it proceeds affords opportunity for the Lord to come in, on the one hand, to conduct us into heavenly places; but, on the other hand, to fit us for testimony on earth.
Ques In Luke 24 the idea of the Lord’s coming is omitted. “As they were saying these things, he himself stood in their midst”. Will you say a word as to that?
JT I am glad you mention that, for it indicates the difference in the two passages. In Luke it does not say He came, it just says He stood in the midst, as if He is ready for serving as needed, and there was much need. But in John 20, He came and He says, “Peace be to you” twice, and then He speaks about His sending them and the Father sending Him and that they would have power to remit sins, so that the testimonial outlook is clearer in John, as if they were ready for it, whereas in Luke they were not ready, much had to be done, and hence He was there to do it.
Ques Does the reference to Beer-sheba in Genesis 22 enter into what you are speaking of?
JT Well, it is a place of promise and Abraham [p. 231] went there and dwelt there. Romans 11 shows that all Israel shall be saved, it is only a question of time, so I would say the position of Abraham and his young men would be awaiting that; whereas the assembly’s place is in heaven, which is not the place of fulfilment of promise; she comes down out of heaven from God, but her own place is up there. Hence Isaac did not come down with his father according to the passage, he is above, and so Rebecca is just brought into view at the end of that chapter. So Mary would represent the assembly in John 20, although it is not mentioned, but she is made much of, she was in the Lord’s mind — He calls her Mary and she calls Him Rabboni. She was useful and in fact was used as a messenger to the assembly.
Ques What would be the link between His word to Mary and what He says to the disciples as coming into the midst?
JT Well, Mary is just used, not officially; she is a sister, but I think she is more than a messenger, for she is an instructed person, which is in keeping with John’s ministry. The whole of John’s gospel is linked up with the idea of teaching. First, two disciples who came to Jesus from John the baptist enquire as to Him and as to the place of His teaching, “Where abidest thou?” They regarded Him as a teacher and the idea runs right through John’s gospel, and I think at the present time it is culminating in the much instruction we are receiving and the ear for it, too. But then there is the official side and that is He is commissioning them as He was commissioned, and that commission extends to the forgiveness of sins, which would contemplate the gospel period.
PL Would that involve finally Rebecca gracing the tent as united to Isaac?
JT Quite so, she is just mentioned in chapter 22. Her genealogy is given so as to make way for chapter 24.
[p. 232] Sarah died in chapter 23, hence the vacancy, but that is to be filled up by Rebecca, that is the assembly.
Ques I would like to get a little clearer as to Abraham going back to his young men. Is that to emphasise the present position of the Lord, and then to bring into view subsequently the assembly? Is that what you have in mind?
JT Yes, they go to the place of promise. The verse read (verse 19) says that Abraham returned to his young men, saying nothing about Isaac, but the facts show that Isaac had gone up and been offered up, he is viewed as dead and risen, but with the omission of what happened to him afterwards. There is a suggestion that he remained up there in keeping with what Abraham says in chapter 24, that he is not to be brought back to where Abraham came from; the wife, the spouse, would be found there, but he was not to be taken back there. So chapter 24 fits in with the position here. Rebecca is seen in chapter 22: 23, she is there. Abraham would have in mind that the chief servant of his house should go and find her and he brings her back and Isaac is in the field coming from the well at which God appeared to Hagar. Isaac is seen there, and he is meditating in the fields coming and going, as we might say, from that well, as if his mind is on the Spirit in the type. Then he is looking for the camels, as if to suggest that he is thinking of what power is carrying the assembly and all that enters into the present moment as to the assembly’s position, the power by which she is carried to Isaac, the power by which she is maintained in testimony.
Ques If we link the testimony with John 20, should we have this in our minds?
JT Well, it is a great matter to clear people, who would seek their place in fellowship, from all thought of responsibility as to sin, and, if they have [p. 233] any, that that should be removed so that they should be free to enter into the assembly and its privileges. The thought enters into the assembly. If there be any who are not clear on account of past history, they should be set free so as to take up their place in the assembly.
Rem So we do not carry in our minds, when they are released, their past history as against them.
JT No. For remission of sins comes first, so that they should be free. Why should they not be? Why should we be without these persons? Why should the Lord be without them on account of their sins? He has bought them. The power of forgiveness is not only with the Lord but with the brethren.
PL The past a closed book, as with David, so that he is free for the service of God.
AM As in John 4, our past is all dealt with and in chapter 9 we are free.
JT That is good.
Ques If we understood the way the Lord would visit us would that help us on this line of remission?
JT Yes, the power of remission is in the assembly. John does not mention the word ‘assembly’ as we know, but we are entitled to speak of it, for the teaching of remission, and all that enters into it as to redemption, has been current in the assembly from the very outset. John has a prophetic character and the idea of teaching comes in, for there is so much need of it. Thousands of people are suffering from the want of teaching; the teaching implies that the assembly has power to remit sins.
Ques What sins would that refer to, those of unconverted people?
JT I think it would be the conviction that would be current where the Lord was working, for all subsequent workings are by the Spirit, even new birth is by Him. That would make way for material for the assembly, but there are hindrances because of the want of teaching. So it says, “He breathed into them, and says to them, Receive the Holy Spirit”, meaning that they were empowered in themselves to do it — “whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted to them; whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained”. But remission is first, remission to set the saints free that they should not be hindered by sins.
Rem You have in mind that a mandate is given and they will use it discreetly, according to the persons in view.
JT Yes. Luke would show that forgiveness is preached, but John is saying forgiveness is with the brethren as in the upper room, qualified as breathed into by the Lord and having the Spirit and in the upper room and in power to release any of their own kind. It is not a question of the gospel exactly but of persons belonging to the assembly being released to have part in it.
PL So they come from the upper room in Acts 1, and in Peter’s preaching there is the remission of sins, and then what follows is they persevered in the teaching, and then they became material for the assembly.
JT Quite so. We are in the last days, of course, and though John’s gospel was written at the beginning, it contemplates the last days. So the Lord said to Peter as to John, “If I will that he abide until I come, what is that to thee? Follow thou me”. If there is one that is detained by sins committed, well, there is power in the assembly itself to release them. Not power in the sense in which the gospel is announced, remission of sins is preached in the gospel, according to Luke, but John is dealing with the persons who form the assembly and the question of relieving any of them who are bound by their past history.
Ques Is there a difference between the binding and loosing in Matthew 18, and this?
JT [p. 235] Well, Matthew 18 is assembly authority, so the question of transgression is mentioned. It is on lower ground, I would say, and yet not, for it is the official position of the assembly in Matthew, whereas John is dealing with the persons who form the assembly and their privileges and the fact that they are breathed into by Christ and brought into the most intimate relations with Christ.
Rem You have in mind persons who are hampered in their spirits, not wilful persons.
JT Yes.
WW Would the woman in John 4 come in, where the Lord says, “Go, call thy husband”, and she says, “Is not this the Christ?”
JT I would make an allowance for the difference between chapters 4 and 20. In chapter 20 you have to do with Mary, a wonderful person, she had been relieved of seven demons — not a question of sin but of the power of Satan — and the Lord cast them out Himself. But chapter 4 is a Samaritan and she has her questions and the Lord has to meet those questions. John 20 is on a higher level. At the same time we are dealing with John and we might as well touch what might help us. John 20 is the highest level in that gospel.
Ques Is that why the woman is presented as having no past history in chapter 20?
JT Yes, her past history is not mentioned.
Ques Do you mean that this links on with Rebecca and Abraham — it is “my land” and “my kindred” — is that John 20?
JT Well, Rebecca is to be brought to where Isaac is, not the idea of where his kindred were. Rebecca, of course, belonged to his kindred, but she has to be brought to him, not he to her. That is a long way, Mesopotamia is a long way from the land of Israel, so it is that the Lord, as it were, remains where He is seen as risen from the dead, and we might [p. 236] say He has gone up, for if we look into Luke we would think He went up the day He rose. There is nothing said about the forty days in Luke, nor is there indeed in John, although there, I believe, it is contemplated, but anyway the idea is that He has gone up, hence He says, “I ascend”, which would be the character of the thing with a view to what is presented in testimony.
PL Would your allusion to Luke 24 fit into Ecclesiastes 1: 5, the sun hastening to its place where it ariseth?
JT Quite so. It is a remarkable thing, as if the Lord was in haste, speaking reverently, to go to heaven, for heaven would be the place of administrative power. The commission in Luke 24 implies that forgiveness of sins should be preached and the Lord was in haste to go there, but the second treatise of Luke suggests a further thought, as if heaven had felt concern in consultation, so to speak, so that this present dispensation should be completed in the full thought of it and its wonderful effect on the race become active and operative. I believe many of us need to reconsider the first chapter of Acts to see what was needed to be effected before the Spirit could come. It is a question of what is needed on earth for those who were to form the administrative part of the assembly.
Ques Should the attitude with regard to remitting characterise all our meetings and particularly the care meeting?
JT Just so. Not that we should be detained, but not to be unmindful that some of our number may be held in bondage because of sins, that they should be released, for the assembly has a sort of provisional power to do it.
Ques Why is that preceded by His breathing into them and saying, “Receive the Holy Spirits”?
JT It is all a question of conditions that needed [p. 237] to be brought about to make circumstances suitable for any given situation. John 20 is more the inward and heavenly side of the assembly.
Ques You have in mind the assembly dealing with its own personnel, what is within the assembly as such?
JT Yes, they belonged to the assembly because the new birth, which is the subject in John, implies that there is much going on to effect conditions so that the Holy Spirit should come in. It is going on all the time and many have not come to an understanding of the position of the Spirit or His activities. John 20 is unique; it deals with something by itself.
PL In Genesis 22, there are the appellations, “sons to thy brother” and then “his firstborn” and then “his brother”, and then the reference to Abraham’s brother. Do you think Rebecca is introduced as in a family environment?
JT Yes, and what an environment! I mean to say, the possibilities of it, and we have to think of them for later scriptures will unfold them to us, for we are proceeding on a certain principle. In the generations from Abraham to Christ, forty-two generations, how much would be unfolded. But chapters 22 and 24 open up the relations of Rebecca, and chapter 28 the relations of Jacob.
Ques Is the word ‘also’ in verse 20 (chapter 22) important as an additional thought to Isaac?
JT So that we are in the midst of relations, as has been remarked, and what possibilities there are in these relations. We have to wait for the unfolding under God of what comes out of these relations, but in the meantime, Isaac and Rebecca are in mind, and then Sarah dies and Rebecca comes into view under the direction of Abraham himself.
Ques Is John’s gospel the great unfolding of these features of relationship? I was thinking of the way in which the relations of the Father and the Son are set out, the pattern of those relations affects everything.
JT [p. 238] Well, the early part of John is that the Father loves the Son and has given all things to be in His hand. The “all things” are things to be administered, hence the Samaritan woman comes in at once to show how the administration proceeds and how she becomes part of it. She is not hindered by sin, that matter is settled; she leaves her waterpot and goes to the city and says to the men, “... Is not he the Christ?” I think it is important to see that John contemplates the administrative position of Christ, and so the woman comes into it, and the woman in John 20 comes into it on a higher level and becomes a messenger to the assembly herself and what she says is comely, certainly she is taught. The woman of Samaria could not be said to be taught, though she was afterwards, but Mary is taught and she says, “Rabboni”. I think the trouble is now that so many are not taught, they do not understand the truth, yet they are affected, they are subjects of the work of God, but they are not delivered.
Ques The Lord speaks to Mary of certain relations, what is the connection between that and the assembly?
JT They are the greatest things we can think of. He is ascending to the Father and the brethren are to understand that they are His brethren — the message implies that. Mary’s message instructed them so far, but then the Lord tells her He is going up to His Father and their Father and that they are His brethren.
Rem One would like help as to the great lines of truth we have had before us — sonship and the assembly.
JT Well, it is not simply, as in Acts 1, that He has ascended, but John presents a deeper thought, meaning that He is ascending, He has power to do it, and He is ascending to His Father and their Father, His God and their God. There could be no higher [p. 239] relation than that, and then the commission given them is the same as He had received. He sends them out as He had been sent out and He breathes on them and gives them His own Spirit and then gives them the power to remit sins.
Ques The Lord has given much light in teaching, what is needed at the present moment to set the saints in liberty?
JT I would say correct teaching, much correct teaching. I believe there is a great deal of incorrect teaching, and the incorrectness implies that the converts are not free in their members, they are not wholly free, because the members of the saints are to be in mind in view of the assembly. There is much decrepitude amongst Christians, I would say; and especially among the sects, how very few there are who have the Spirit and who know they have Him, and hence they are deformed, but we need the release in our members, both personally and in a general way.
Ques Would the Philippian company shine in this service of liberation? Paul was concerned that the sisters might be of the same mind.
JT Quite so, and Epaphroditus who was sick. Philippians would work on those lines. I wonder if we are all clear as to this matter of teaching, for all the creeds in a sense are in the way of the truth, those who hold them are hindered by them, and all the systems of teaching that are current are standing in the way of the liberation of the saints.
Ques One comes across a great many that are interested and we feel incompetent to lead them; what would you suggest?
JT Referring to the sects, they are prejudiced. The clerical idea, the notion of the clergyman, being dispensationally the sin against the Holy Spirit (see the Collected Writings, Volume 1), the whole current system of Christendom is standing in the way of the liberation of the saints. I think the [p. 240] Lord is helping the brethren and they are on right lines and the Lord attaches great importance to this.
AM May we ourselves be greatly hampered by Jewish ideas clinging to us?
JT Yes, and brethrenistic ideas, all that has been held for the past hundred years. There is still much to be given up that hampers us and makes us unable to help our brethren outside.
PL Nehemiah discovered there was much rubbish to be removed.
WW You were saying the Lord’s supper was the great central thought in the recovery of the truth.
JT Just so, and in Paul’s hands it was abridged, so to speak, that is, made simple, and it is intelligible as applying to Christianity and nothing else. The Lord’s supper will not be taken by the millennial saints; it is “my body, which is for you”, that is the assembly. So the terms are to be noted and we are to see how they react upon us so as to liberate us for the service of God.
Rem It says, “the disciples rejoiced therefore, having seen the Lord”; then it says, “Jesus said therefore again to them, Peace be to you”.
JT That would show they were progressing.
WW Is not the great trouble generally in Christendom that the Person of Christ is not sufficient for the hearts of people?
JT Yes; what they need is teaching, if they will only listen. It is remarkable how the Lord is helping the brethren, the number of meetings of this kind the brethren are having. The proportion of meetings in which there is teaching in which the idea of the pillar and base of the truth is set out, is very large in comparison with what it was.
Rem When Paul wrote his second letter to Timothy he had to say, “Thou knowest this, that all who are in Asia ... have turned away from me”.
JT Yes, they were really turning away from Christ. In Paul’s own letter to the Ephesians he lays great stress on what he knew, “Ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ” (Ephesians 3: 4); the Lord had one man, anyway, who knew.
Ques As to the Supper according to Paul, are you free to say a little as to the omission of the word ‘given’ in regard to the loaf?
JT I think Paul’s account is right: “for you” is better — Luke says “given”whereas Paul does not. The fact that much has been made of the Lord’s supper in recent years, I think, is very striking, liberating the brethren in regard to assembly service.
Ques Does that explain the omission in 1 Corinthians 11 of “poured out for you”?
JT Quite so, and then the addition of the thought of memorial in relation to the cup in 1 Corinthians 11.
AM Does the action of Thomas imply anything special? You called attention to unbelief as a very serious state of soul in view of the light that was shining.
JT Yes, he was missing the truth because he was absent. What the Lord points out to him later is just to make way for the Jews who will be in the millennium. I think the Lord is using the second appearing in John 20 to show He is making way for the Jews. There were three manifestations: the first in chapter 20:19, 20; the second the case of Thomas, and the third the draft of fishes at Tiberias, in chapter 21.
WW The Lord spoke to Paul of the much people He had in the city and it says he remained there a certain time teaching the word of God. Has that a bearing on what you are saying, the need of teaching?
JT Quite so, the word of God, too. Hence Paul says in 2 Timothy, “Preach the word”, not so much the glad tidings, but the word.