THE WILDERNESS
THE WILDERNESS
JT This section is very interesting for young Christians. God does not disguise from us as young Christians that it is wilderness. We have the wilderness in chapter 15:22, and then several times here, the wilderness of Sin. And then the manna was on it. It is God, I think, reminding us at the outset, that He knows that it is wilderness, and even although we may murmur, He will not discipline us because of it immediately. They murmured every moment. They murmured in the wilderness of Shur at Marah. And when they were led into the wilderness of Sin they murmured again. In the next chapter they are led to move again to Rephidim, and they murmured.
RS Still the Lord did not give them up.
JT No, nor would He even discipline them there yet. It is to remind us that He is very patient with us at the very beginning.
RS What would be the idea of leaving Elim and the seventy palm trees and twelve springs of water and going into the wilderness? There was perfect provision there for them. Would that be the test?
JT That is the idea. The wilderness is the place of testing, so that it was one movement to another. Numbers 33 tells us the number of movements. God writes them down after they are all over, showing how interested He is in every movement; He is taking notice of it. It is a question of how we take it. When God moves, it is a question of how we take it, whether we murmur, or if we take it and see His love in it. There is something in it for us, if we submit to it.
HH Do you think that there is the tendency to get settled down when we get the twelve springs of [p. 75] water and seventy palm trees? Very nice provision, but then that is not God’s objective, is it?
JT It is one of the encampments. There are a great many encampments and each one has some phase of the character of God to be learned. It is important, therefore, to be subject. God may move suddenly, He may order a sudden movement, and if we are not ready we are sure to murmur. Some phase of the truth may be called attention to, and we are not ready for it. If we had been walking with God, we would be ready. We have in Malachi that the Lord will suddenly come to His temple, and we do not want to be taken by surprise.
HH So that all our wilderness circumstances call forth constant exercises and preparation for movement and adjustment.
JT That is the idea of it. That is the point in the wilderness. It is God showing at the end that He takes account of every movement. It is His love, taking account of every movement. So God takes account of what we might have thought a very commonplace thing. So that you have in the Canticles the idea of the footsteps of the flock. That shows they are moving. They were stationary, of course; they delayed. In some encampments they were a long time, but the general thought is movement. They were all taught that the furniture of the tabernacle was not to be permanently resting in the wilderness. It was to be carried. Notice here, they came into the wilderness of Sin, which is between Elim and Sinai, two remarkable positions: the one where God provides refreshment, and the other where He opens up His mind. The encampment at Sinai was a great one, there God opened up His mind. It was the mountain of Jehovah, although in the wilderness; it was God’s mountain, that is, Horeb, therefore a wonderful place of learning. But their position here was between the two. They had not as yet come to [p. 76] Sinai. We get the position at Sinai later. It says in chapter 19, “The same day came they into the wilderness of Sinai” (verse 1). That is an important point, but here they are between Elim and Sinai. It is an intermediate position, between two very important ones; how are we going to behave in it?
FC Is that why the Spirit of God records the time — the fifteenth day of the second month?
JT Well, I think it is just as we have been saying, that it is His love taking notice of the movement and the actual time of it. So that not only our names, but our very movements, day by day, are all written in His book. If we kept a diary, we could not do it any better. Very often there enters into diaries the big “I”. Self always enters into diaries, but when God is keeping the diary, it is His love. What happened on this day? Job cursed his day. Think of a man cursing his day, when you think of all that God could be to you on that day. Every day marks something in God’s calendar. His calendar is full of precious records; records of His work of grace towards us, operations in us, that the divine nature may be in us. So that we do not want to curse any day, or think any day worse than any other. If it is not better for me, it is better for somebody else. Every day is better. God is operating in a wide field.
HH Is it from this point, between Elim and Sinai, that all the grace and love and care of God comes out towards them, in spite of their murmurings and breakdowns? He does not raise a question with them, does He?
JT No, it is the children’s period. I mean, not the period in the sense of being dwarfed, but as they begin. He alludes to it in Hosea — “When Israel was a child, then I loved him”, Hosea 11: 1. This is the time of childhood, when the children are always attractive. “I it was that taught Ephraim to walk, — [p. 77] He took them upon his arms, — but they knew not that I healed them. I drew them with bands of a man, with cords of love; and I was to them as they that take off the yoke on their jaws, and I gently caused them to eat”, Hosea 11: 3, 4. I think that is this chapter. There is gentleness, there is nothing harsh. “I caused them to eat”. They ate flesh in the evening and bread in the morning.
HH He never forgets the first movements of love towards Him.
JT No, that is the point, I think. He does not forget. So, as we were saying, even although we do not read His diary, so to speak, He reads it. He goes over the ground. It is the working out of His own nature in us. We have here the mediatorial service of both Moses and Aaron. We shall come to that in the middle of the chapter, where Aaron speaks to them. They look towards the wilderness. That is the voice of a man. They know Aaron’s voice; Moses does not speak. They were going back into Egypt, but Aaron spoke to them and then they looked towards the wilderness. That is, we will accept God’s mind. That is the bands of a man typically, the sympathies of Christ, the voice of Christ, that diverts us towards the wilderness, from going back into the world.
AG It is a good thing to be in line with the mind of God for the moment. If that is not so, we begin to murmur at any move following fresh light.
JT Exactly, that is what you get here.
JS So your thought is, that as the people take their journeyings up to Elim and then to Sinai, with all the grace that God has upon His people, this should be the way of instructing them and teaching them, that they might answer to His mind in Sinai.
JT That is right. They become accustomed to His grace, and in chapter 19 He proposes, ‘Will you enter into a covenant with Me’ — with such a God [p. 78] the God thou hast found. That is chapter 19, the relation when God would betroth them to Himself in love. In the meantime they were learning Him in grace. “I have ... brought you to myself”.
RS You would say it would have a very sobering effect upon us if we took account of the fact that God was to keep in His diary every action we do, every word we speak, every movement we make? He is taking account of it all, in the way of education.
JT Quite. Then He later records these in the prophets and in the Psalms; you have the indication of how God goes back over the ground. Think of Him teaching them of His nature, gently causing them to eat; there is no harshness. They are not forced here as in Numbers. There is discipline in this connection, but not here; there is no discipline here.
HH Would this food build up the constitution in view of the wilderness exercises?
JT Well, I thought that; and God begins to deal with us on the principle of measure, that although we are in the younger stage here, He has got His own mind. There is only one measure for every person. The children are not taken account of as such, they get the same amount as a man. That is the mind of God for us. Children do not want to remain children; you will notice how a child wants to reckon up his years. Well, God says, if you want to be a man, that is My mind for you, “That we may be no longer babes”, Ephesians 4:14. The measure is an omer. The measure for Moses is the same as for the child; the same measure laid up before the testimony. It is the mind of God, showing that He has got great thoughts about us. We are not going to be babes, we are going to be men, and great men, no less than Christ, because He is before the testimony.
HH I was just thinking that all His thoughts for us were set out in Christ for us in that way.
[p. 79] Nothing short of what is in the mind of God is set out in Christ.
JT Yes. He has got no less a thought for us or any young brother or sister here. God says, if you want to be a man, that is My mind for you, and too, I am going to feed you; you are going to have an omer every day, an omer for a person, even though that person is a month old. That is His mind.
WC There would be no growth by the flesh-pots of Egypt. He says, “I ... caused them to eat”. Here, they wanted to go back to the flesh-pots of Egypt.
JT Quite. God had better food for them than that. That is what the flesh lives on. It will never develop a man according to God. The world dishes up varied things, strong smelling, tasty things; theatres and things like that. That is not going to make a man of us according to God.
JS God believes in giving in abundance. It is the abundance of His grace towards His people, in order that their hearts might be attracted to Himself. Manna was raining down from heaven. I suppose as we eat manna, we become like heaven.
JT Yes, that is the idea. Raining denotes abundance, and yet it all went away if you did not get it in the morning; there is nothing afterwards. If you gather a ton of it, you will only have an omer after you are finished. “He that gathered much had nothing over”. That is the idea of it. It is a mysterious thing. No matter how much you gather, you have nothing over, and you gather only what you eat. You cannot have Christ in that sense and lay Him up on your bookshelf.
GT Would one appropriate more than another?
JT That might be.
GT They gathered every man according to the measure of his eating.
JT Yes, that would be his house, but an omer [p. 80] for a person. As was said in chapter 12, the head of the house would gather, but if he gathered much, he had nothing over.
PM So that your measure is according as you feed on Christ.
JT That is your measure. You know you have not anything more than what you eat.
HH It is interesting that you gather in the morning. Do you think there is a principle underlying that?
JT I think there is. It is a question of the clearness of your mind, I mean spiritually. You get this food when you are at your best, you know, not when you are fagged out with your daily toil. It is before you enter on your daily toil. That is when you will take in Christ, in the clearness of your mind and affections.
HH It is because we are tested, are we not, all through the day? I have often thought we are governed by how we take up the commencement of the day. If it is a gathering of the manna, feeding upon Christ in that way, and desiring to come out in His features, we must start that way. It is no use starting it overnight.
JT No. It is a remarkable kind of lesson. It is intensely spiritual. When we begin really to get spiritual understanding, then we come to God as a God of measure. He has definite thoughts about us. Because He is a God of measure, His counsels are all on that principle. So that this chapter teaches us that if we have to do with God, He causes us to eat gently, but He has His own thoughts, His own lessons, and He is going to bring me to that.
GT What is indicated by the breeding of worms if it was left over?
JT It is just the efforts of will and disregarding the mind of God. It is corruption. “For he that sows to his own flesh, shall reap corruption”, Galatians 6: 8.
[p. 81] When they gathered it on the sixth day it did not. It is a question of the will of God.
JS As we feed upon the manna, how does it affect us?
JT Well, I think it is to do the will of God; it is that kind of food. It is a question of the will displaced. There are three great features of food: the passover, the manna and the old corn. These are the three great features for the people. In addition to that there is the shewbread for the priests, but the manna for the wilderness. It falls in the morning after the passover; that shows it is only for the wilderness. It applies to that phase of my position. The passover is a question of my getting out of the world. It does not finish; we have it in the wilderness, too. It is the sufferings of Christ, the unmitigated sufferings of Christ. There is no suffering in the manna. It is Christ here where I am, a Man in the flesh in His everyday life. We forget that He had an everyday life. If there was something to be built, the Lord would do it, the One who serves, though He was in the middle of the twelve, He would do anything that might have to be done. He did not speak as a sacerdotal kind of person, He did the thing.
RS He never moved outside the will of God. He was a perfect Man in that way. So I suppose if we begin to feed on the perfect Man in the morning, it has an effect upon us, and gives us the impression that we cannot do what we like. If we feed on Him, we will be like Him.
JT Quite so. What would you see if you were living in Capernaum next door to the Lord? It says He was living in Capernaum; I do not know whether it was in a hired house or not, but it says He dwelt there. That is the way to get the spiritual thought; what would you see in the morning? You would note what He did too. He might go for water. We [p. 82] must get into our minds a real Man down here, in everyday circumstances. He was wearied at one time. So that if you saw Him in Capernaum, how would He act? I heard of a servant of the Lord who got up and read his Bible very early in the morning. A maid in the house opposite noticed him at the window; she got up early, too. It led to her conversion.
WM That was good. I was thinking, that in learning of Christ in the morning, Christ once humbled here, we would be something like Him, moving on through the day.
JT That is the idea. How would He do things? We learn by the Spirit, because the Spirit brings to the remembrance. Christ was here as Man. They were acquainted with His mother Mary. John took her to his own home, and think of the treasure he had in his home! Think how much she could tell about Jesus! What Mary had belonged to the assembly. What treasure there was in the knowledge she had of Jesus!
AG Is that the home he took her to?
JT Oh no, it was his own home. I think he had a home of his own. Scripture is very simple. Peter had a wife, Scripture tells us. “The Son of Man has come eating and drinking”, Matthew 11: 19; Jesus was found in figure as a Man; He was as an ordinary man. It is not anything spectacular; He was found as a man, just a man, that is the wonderful thing to get at, the life of Jesus.
HH His disciples were not always together with Him, because there is a point when Jesus went to the mount of Olives, and the disciples went to their own homes.
JT The first disciple’s home He came into is characteristic. Mark tells us it was the house of Simon and Andrew. Simon was married, and his wife’s mother was in the house. That is to say, there were two brothers and one was married, and his mother-in-law was living with them. That was the situation in that house. It was a difficult situation, but the Lord entered into that house and put it right. The houses must be right if the service is to go on.
JS And as we are feeding upon the manna so gathered, just as you were saying, speaking about the Lord Jesus, every day we see something fresh in His movements. Every day there is something more attractive about that Person. So, as we feed upon the manna, those features of Christ will be seen in every one of us expressly.
JT And that is the reason that the Lord’s mother has such a place, because she was so conversant with His ordinary movements. She “kept all these things in her heart”. Just as Jacob of old kept the saying of Joseph; perhaps he did not understand it, but he kept it.
FC What is the import of eating flesh in the evening?
JT Well, it may be a sort of general allusion to the wilderness position. The flesh in the evening would be perhaps the death of Christ. We take it as a sort of figure. The bread in the morning would be what we have every day. In building up a constitution there is a penalty attached to the flesh; it comes in here.
AG One would prepare for the other, would it, as one would appropriate the death of Christ?
JT Well, yes, if you say it in that way, I think so.
JS Would you just tell us how the eating of the flesh in the evening and the bread in the morning would affect us? How would it work out?
JT Well, it would remind us of the passover; they had the passover that way, in the evening. They would understand something of that. The [p. 84] passover had its place in the wilderness, but I think the lesson learned would point to our appropriation of Christ in His death; the manna is that which sustains us in the wilderness.
AG What is the idea of the dew? The dew fell first, before the manna.
JT Well, I think it is the influence of grace upon your spirit, preparing us for this great thing. We would not value it otherwise. Those who do not appreciate grace, do not value the life of Jesus. This section is full of the influence of grace.
AG One brother has said that if you waken up in the morning and your first thoughts are about the Lord, it is evident that the Lord has been watering you with the dew. Is that right?
JT Yes, that is right. It is the effect of grace, something that comes down without any action on your part.
GT I suppose we must know Him as a living Man, where He is with the heavenly grace, before we can appropriate Him here.
JT Quite so. John says, “grace and truth subsists through Jesus Christ”, John 1: 17. It is the volume. “Of his fulness we all have received, and grace upon grace” (verse 16). One wave after another comes into your soul, and I believe it is that that prepares for the manna in your soul.
JS It only fell on the camp. Does that suggest divine territory?
JT What does it say? “In the morning the dew lay round the camp. And when the dew that lay round it was gone up, behold, on the face of the wilderness there was something fine, granular, fine as hoar-frost, on the ground”. That is the idea, I think, divine territory, as you say.
WM It is very sweet to wake up in the morning with thoughts of the Lord in your heart, and then you begin to meditate upon Him; that is, the [p. 85] thoughts put there are like the dew; they are not of your own choosing; you wake up with them fresh.
RS So the dew has a great meaning in the divine system. “As the dew of Hermon that descendeth on the mountains of Zion; for there hath Jehovah commanded the blessing, life for evermore”, Psalm 133: 3.
JT Yes, a great meaning. It is something that comes down. There is a beautiful touch in it, I think. It comes down without any action on your part; it is wonderful. It comes down quietly and refreshes; without your power, “round the camp”. Then the idea of the manna seems wider than that, it was on “the face of the wilderness”.
FH In regard to the measure, would you say that God’s thought would be equality? We get in 2 Corinthians 8, that there would be equality.
JT Yes, quite so. That equality is that Christ is the standard of it. It is not a democratic thing. It is a very elevated thought.
HH Does it suggest too, a constant appreciation of Christ in this way, on our side? So that if we are to get the dew in the morning, and if our thoughts are to be of Him at the commencement, there must be that formation as a result, of feeding on Christ, on the manna, in that way.
JT Quite, this is alluding to the Jews. It is very interesting and important; it is the sense of grace. We should look for a sense of grace and maintain it. The Scripture abounds with the idea of maintaining the sense of grace, and John, in recording the advent of Christ here, enlarges upon it. “Grace and truth subsists through Jesus Christ”. The verb is in the singular, it is “subsists”. Really the two ideas are combined into one. It also says, “Of his fulness we all have received, and grace upon grace”. One wave after another comes into the soul.
HH One has often been touched with Psalm 45 [p. 86] and Luke 4, in that, in the Psalms, “Grace is poured into thy lips”, but in Luke 4, it flows from His lips “they wondered at the words of grace”.
JT Quite.
JS Do you see the effect of dew in John 1: 37 The two disciples saw Jesus as He walked. The de was there, do you think?
JT Yes. Their attention was called to it; the were ready for it. I suppose the words of John would have an effect upon their souls, and would have conveyed something more than the words. He was evidently very affected because it was the outpouring of a filled soul.
JW So it says here, that the manna was round like hoar-frost. Have you any thought as to that?
JT It refers to the life of Jesus. It is not exactly like fine flour. There is something, I think, for the eye in it, in the roundness, the seed. It is granular. It was larger than flour, round, some translate it scaly. It is not something to be baked. It could be, no doubt, but the idea is that it is something that you can eat without any cooking or baking.
JS Does it give you the thought of completeness Nothing needed to be added to it.
JT Possibly — the roundness, yes. The more you looked at it, the more it suggested something to you. As you look at a small round thing, it has a peculiar effect upon the eye.
RS Would the dew set forth preparedness for the manna? There is no contamination when the dew is there before the manna.
JT Well, that is the idea, that it does not come in on you naturally. You would not gather it at all. You would not value it. The dew must come first. It is a sense of grace acting, and so it fits in with this chapter. What I think we must notice is the place Aaron has in it; then it is the first mention of Sabbath by name, and spiritually it is of great importance.
[p. 87] Although the wilderness is a place of movement, there is the idea of rest and enjoyment. The teaching of it is linked on here with the manna, that is to say, as I appreciate the manna, I value Christ.
I find rest in Christ. And then the place Aaron has is in verse 10. Moses said, “In the morning, then shall ye see the glory of Jehovah”. (verse 7). And then in verse 9 Moses spoke to Aaron, “Say to all the assembly of the children of Israel, Come near into the presence of Jehovah; for he has heard your murmurings. And it came to pass, when Aaron spoke to the whole assembly of the children of Israel, that they turned toward the wilderness, and behold, the glory of Jehovah appeared in the cloud”. Now, that is one of the most interesting things in the chapter, in fact, in the whole book, because it is a question of how God “drew them with bands of a man”. It is the voice of Aaron, not Moses. Aaron is typically Christ in His feelings and affection for us. They are thinking of Egypt. What will turn a young brother or sister away from Egypt? The voice of Jesus — listen to the voice of Jesus! It says, “It came to pass, when Aaron spoke to the whole assembly of the children of Israel, that they turned toward the wilderness”, as if the voice of Aaron directed them that way. It is not a command. It is the influence of that voice. He says, ‘I will go anywhere with that voice, under the influence of that voice, because the wilderness is not attractive, you know, it is the opposite’. Why should I turn towards it then? It is because of the voice.
HH Do you think that the Ethiopian eunuch’s movements would be very different after Philip began at the same scripture and preached unto him Jesus?
JT That is right. He went on his way rejoicing. That is the idea of it.
WS What does Moses represent?
JT Well, I thought that it is the side of authority.
[p. 88] But how beautiful is the voice of Jesus! What a Powerful, mighty voice! As the hymn puts it, ‘Calling me from earth’. Well, that is the idea, that they turned toward the wilderness. If you had asked them why, perhaps they could not have told you, but there was a power in that voice, and that was directing them in that way. So that it says, “Behold, the glory of Jehovah appeared in the cloud”. As if to say it is God who had turned them — “The glory of Jehovah appeared in the cloud”. It seems to quote it consequent on their turning to the wilderness.
HH You would not find the glory of Jehovah in Egypt, would you? Man’s glory shines there.
JT Oh no, it is God luring you in this direction.
PM So that if you draw nigh to God, He draws nigh to you.
JT Just so. And the glory is so attractive. Moses had promised it to them in verse 7; but in verse 10, as they turned, God appears. Moses had promised it the day before, but now they see it.
WM That would be a very great incentive to them to keep their eyes in that direction.
JT Well, that is the idea, I think, in Hosea, “I drew them with bands of a man” — the influence of Christ as a Man.
HH You remember some years ago in Glasgow, you touched on Romans 5, and this is running through my mind tonight as you suggest it; you get grace there, and then you get the rejoicing in the hope of the glory, and then you get the love of God shed abroad in your heart. All that comes in in connection with young christians, as well as the old.
JT Quite so. I think that corresponds to this.
Rem Mr. Darby speaks about the God they found in the wilderness — ‘Patient, gracious, powerful, holy’.
JT Yes. We have to notice the idea of a man in the wilderness, that is Christ typified in Aaron. His authority is Moses, but Aaron was God’s man for affections. God says to Moses, “when he seeth thee he will be glad in his heart”, Exodus 4: 14. The man of affection typifies Christ in that way.
FC The glory is in the cloud. What is the significance there?
JT Well, that was the divine dwelling, the symbol of divine presence. God was there in the cloud. It signified His presence there. It was a manifestation. God is always here with us in the Spirit, but sometimes He gives a manifestation — something that is special, that shines out. We should look for that manifestation, the appearing of the glory.
AG It is true today as much as it was in Israel’s day.
JT And that is the test of where God is, you know. There are those who go on and talk of having God with them, but where is the presence of the Lord? Where is the power of the Spirit of God? You want some evidence of the presence of God, some indication, if He is with us. At times He shows Himself specially to us.
JS This would hold the people. The glory of the Lord would hold them in their affections for the Lord, would it not? They would see the beauty and the patience that was in Himself. In contrast, they see what is in the wilderness, the darkness of everything that is around.
JT Quite. I am sure you have realised in meetings, that at times God shines out in a special way. Very often in a crisis God comes in and settles the matter by some act of His. He does something, and the matter is settled if anyone has eyes to see.
AG Do you not think it is important to listen to the voice of Jesus, not only to eat the manna, but to listen to the voice?
JT The sympathy there is in it, you know. Of course Moses’ voice would be His voice too. It would be authority, but Aaron’s is marked by sympathy.
WS Would this come with going forth “to him without the camp, bearing his reproach”?
JT Well, exactly,”Go forth to him”. “Jesus … suffered without the gate”.
HH It is often a test, as you said, that when we go through it with the Lord, He comes in in the most manifest way, and signifies approval. It is owing to their murmurings that the glory is here, is it not?
JT Yes. The glory covered the whole tabernacle, that is the idea. God said, I will take care of the testimony. He covered it all. Whatever people may do, God will cover the testimony, and take care of it.
PM Does verse 12 show us how we grow in grace and in the knowledge of God? “I have heard the murmurings of the children of Israel: speak to them, saying, Between the two evenings ye shall eat flesh, and in the morning ye shall be filled with bread; and ye shall know that I am Jehovah your God”.
JT That is right. It would be a distinct mark. There would be progress at this point. Israel would grow in it, you know, it would mark progress.
RS Does not that verse show the magnificence of the provision that God had for them? He says, “Between the two evenings ye shall eat flesh, and in the morning ye shall be filled with bread” — no lack — “and ye shall know that I am Jehovah your God”.
JT Quite. That is right.
HH The light of God’s ways or purpose is one thing, but the experimental knowledge is another, that is how we come into it — “Ye shall know”.
JT That is the idea. As our brother was just remarking, this marks progress. “And ye shall know that I am Jehovah your God”, for the wilderness is the place of learning. ‘What the God that thou hast found’. You learn God [p. 91] there.
RS It is fine to hear that they are filled with bread in the morning.
JT Yes, so that in the evening, the eating of the flesh is one side of His provision, and the bread is the other.
JS Say a little about the baking of the manna. When they gathered on the sixth day, they gathered two omers and the instructions were they could bake it (verse 23).
JT Well, “Tomorrow is the rest, the holy sabbath, of Jehovah: bake what ye will bake, and cook what ye will cook”. That is, it is a question of liberty, that at this point you have learned how to grow in the knowledge of God, and God says, I will have confidence in you, and on the sixth day whatever you wish to bake, do it. It is God giving you liberty; do as you will do, not baking a certain thing, but baking what you will bake.
JS That is to say, you have learned how to use grace.
JT That is right, that God can trust you. He can trust you that much, on the sixth day, because the sixth day is to mark progress. The sabbath is confirmatory of all the previous experience of the six days that were before. Now you are gathering more, twice as much as you gathered before. What are you going to do with it? Can He trust you for two days? “Bake what ye will bake”, the point is, you are not to bake on the sabbath. It is a beautiful thought. God has confidence in us. He has called us to liberty but not licence. “Bake what ye will bake”. It is beautiful, I think, how you will advance in the knowledge of God — “Perfect love casts out fear”, 1 John 4: 18. He would teach us in this way, to be at liberty with Him.
JS Just before we close, say a little word upon the omer being placed before the testimony.
JT Well that, I think, is what we were saying;
[p. 92] it would be the measure of a man — the heavenly city is the measure of a man. It is a finite idea, I think; that is, it is Christ, but not as regards His eternal personality, but Christ as measure for us to grow to, as in manhood. I think that is the idea of it. It is the measure of a man that God keeps before Him for ever.
PM Is it God’s standard?
JT Yes, God’s standard, and He has given you food to build you up for that.
GT We must be near God to see that standard as before the testimony.
JT Well, exactly, that is one of the things mentioned in Hebrews — the pot that had the manna.
FC It is a golden pot there in Hebrews. Is there any thought in that? We are not told of the kind of pot here, we have to go to the New Testament for that.
JT Well, it would be, I suppose, everything inside was gold. It would be, I think, gold. Gold in the tabernacle is what God is towards us, it is the testimony of God. His thought is not man as a measure for us, the ark of the testimony is not that, it is the divine ark, measureless and divine. That is never a measure for us. But the omer is a measure, not an omer and a half, a half means there is something more, but an even measure is finite, and that is the idea of the heavenly city. It is finite measurement, great and glorious, but finite.
WM Would the seventh day be given so that they might meditate, that we might meditate more fully upon this precious manna that we have been feeding on every morning?
JT That is the idea. How much rest do I know?
You know we are getting so restless. The idea, I think, is very beautiful, that in the wilderness we begin to learn to rest. It is there that [p. 93] you are confirmed in everything, and everything is confirmed in you in restfulness.
PM Would the golden pot of manna speak of the fulness that is in Christ?
JT Yes, I think it is God’s standard for us, what He would have.
Rem Would there be any thought of measure in Philippians? The last thing he says, “I am full, having received of Epaphroditus”; there is the thought of measure (Philippians 4: 18).
JT Well, I suppose there may be an allusion. He was full, just so, very likely it is an allusion to it. He did not want anything over, all he needed was fulness.
WS Does that come in at all for every one of us?
JT Well, the apostle’s remark in Philippians alludes to the manna. I suppose it does. You do not need anything more than that. The day’s meat is sufficient for the day, you know, for its needs. It will be noticed that the actual amount of an omer is the tenth part of an ephah, so there is one standard. It is a question of measure made very explicit; that is the last word in the chapter. It is according to the measure of the gift of the Christ. I think that leads on to the idea of growing — “until we all arrive ... at the measure of the stature of the fulness of the Christ”, Ephesians 4: 13.
WM What is the thought in it being the tenth part of an ephah?
JT Oh, I do not know. There may be an element of responsibility in the tenth. It is a measure much used, a subdivision much used. Where you get a subdivision there is always something. Why should there be a subdivision of anything? I think the idea would be that I am not all. I am a subdivision. There are others. Ten is responsibility, but it is divided.
HH Could you tell us why in verse 31, after they [p. 94] rested on the seventh day, the house of Israel designate the thing? Now it is manna — before that, what is it? Do you think they had come into the thing intelligently now as a result of the seventh day?
JT Yes. I suppose that is what they called it but I think what they called it left the question open.
The word signifies a question. It is disputable, the meaning is difficult, but I think it is wonderful what sort of a man is this, still you have the names. It is more the measure of a man, of Christ. There is always something underneath. I think He is always divine; there never was a Man like this. The word ‘man’ is given in the margin, but it is not the word for ‘man’, for ‘human’. It is a different root entirely. It denotes a question, I think, and it is well that we should never think that we know all about Christ.
RS You can only express what you know, like the woman in John 4; she says, “Come, see a man who told me all things I had ever done”, John 4: 29.
JT Yes, that is right. The man in chapter 9 was quite right, too, “I know”. He could speak of what he knew.
JS Would you help us in the distinction between Numbers and here? It says in Numbers, the taste of it was as the taste of fresh oil; but the taste of it here was like wafers made with honey.
JT The taste is a question of their change. It is a change in their taste rather than a change in the manna. Fresh oil is not quite so nice as honey, consequently they got tired of it. The manna had not altered. That is where the judgment comes in. They thought they would change it by a certain process but God gave it as it was. That is the best way to take it, as God gives it.
RS I suppose that as we feed on Christ, we will find there is no variation in Him; He is “the same [p. 95] yesterday, and today, and to the ages to come”, Hebrews 13: 8. He never alters, but we may alter.
JT The taste grows, valued more and more.
WM Would the sweetness imply the freshness of first love?
JT I suppose so. The Lord promises the hidden manna.
GT What would the hidden manna be?
JT It refers to what we have, the knowledge outside the knowledge of the religious world, that is the idea. But the Lord gives you something that the religious world does not know anything about, it is a question of what is hidden, what is secret; it is a privilege. In reading the Lord’s address to the assemblies, it is well to bear in mind that it has a historical setting, that what you have alludes to current things, so that if, as in Pergamos, or any of the assemblies, anything is current publicly among religious circles, you do not want that. The Lord says, I know you do not want that, you want something different, and I will give you something different. You do not want publicity, you want something that He will value, and that is secret. So that you have a white stone, and the name on it that no one knows but yourself. That helps us in reading the addresses to the assemblies.