CHILDREN OF GOD (4)
CHILDREN OF GOD (4)
JT What is in mind at this session is that we should see the connection of the Spirit with the children of God. Heretofore we have been stressing ‘born of God’, that children are born of God. Sons are not said to be born of God, except the Lord Jesus who is said to be a begotten Son; Jehovah says in Psalm 2:7, “Thou art my Son; I this day have begotten thee”. Thus sonship for us is that we are adopted, and in that connection the Spirit is immediately brought in, “Because ye are sons, God has sent out the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, Abba, Father”, Galatians 4:6. Sonship properly belongs to heaven. The relationship of children views us as on the earth, but in this section of scripture we have the Spirit connected with children, the most important part of our subject, so that we might see a little more how the Spirit serves us. The Spirit is the great subject of chapter 8; chapter 7 in the latter part of it treats of our state and gives an analysis enabling us to determine the motives of our members, of our automatic members; the Spirit operates in them sometimes without affecting our minds. There is the principle of springing up attached to the Spirit in us, and we become intelligent as to His movements and as to the movements of our members, our automatic organs which the Spirit acts upon; we are enabled to determine what they are. Through the analysis the Spirit helps us so that we are told here that “the Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit, that we are children of God” (verse 16). The chapter speaks of the Spirit in me, relations with Him involving that we are free through the analysis of chapter 7, where we arrive at a point where the speaker alludes to his ego, “I myself with the mind serve God’s law; but with the flesh sin’s law”(Romans 7:25). The believer is thus able to determine what law is being served in his movements and he repudiates the flesh, so that we read, “There is then now no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the law of sin and of death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, having sent His own Son, in likeness of flesh of sin, and for sin, has condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law should be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to flesh but according to Spirit”. We are now set out on the highway in spiritual power, with Canaan, heavenly places, in view. The corresponding section in the type is Numbers 21 where the Spirit is recognised, and from that point the children of Israel moved forward toward the land unhinderedly. It is said here that “as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. For ye have not received a spirit of bondage again for fear, but ye have received a spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father”, so that we are now in happy relation with the Father. Then we are told that “the Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit, that we are children of God”; this is different from the statement of the Spirit [p. 280] that we are children of God; it is the Spirit bearing witness with our spirit that we are.
EMc Why is it necessary for the Spirit to bear witness that we are children of God? Because of our surroundings?
JT I think it is to liberate us so that we can go on to heavenly places; the Spirit sees to it that we know we are children of God. You will remember how in Numbers 21 it is stated that they went forward from one point to another toward the land. The Spirit would aid us inwardly so that we are not [p. 278] hampered but have the assurance that we are children of God.
HH This is what we would call a wilderness setting; the Spirit finds us while we are here.
JT The allusion would be to the Lord’s own life: the Lord’s own pathway here was in the wilderness; that was the principle of it. He came in on Deuteronomy ground telling the devil that man should not live by bread alone, but by every word of God should man live. Luke says He was “led by the Spirit in the wilderness”, not ‘into’, but “in the wilderness” (Luke 4:1). Here it says, “As many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God” (verse 14), so it is that we are in the wilderness too; and the point is to be led by the Spirit as sons of God. Then the Spirit shows us at the same time that we are children under the care and protection of the Father. I think it is a very comforting matter.
HH I was thinking of it in connection with what we had about “the right to be children of God”, John 1:12. God has the saints in the wilderness setting where He would be everything to them. In the wilderness there is nothing but death, but God takes up His right with the saints by the Spirit first of all in the wilderness setting, do you not think?
JT We are on the highway to glory in Romans 8. John in his treatment of the subject stresses our position here, “Now are we children of God”, 1 John 3:2. It is always a question of God here with John; if it is a question of God’s children they are conformed to Christ so that they give pleasure to God, so that His love toward them is the same love wherewith He loves Christ. Paul takes the ground of the highway into heaven, so that the glory of the children of God is in mind. It says, verse 20, “For the creature has been made subject to vanity, not of its will, but by reason of him who has subjected the same, in hope that the creature itself also shall be [p. 279] set free from the bondage [p. 281] of corruption into the liberty of the glory of the children of God”. As the Spirit witnesses with our spirits that we are children of God it is said that we are heirs of God too. So that it is heavenly places and glory that are in prospect from this point of view, and the Spirit is aiding our spirits; thus the analysis enables us to understand so that we may go on.
HH I think you have said elsewhere that Ephesians gives us the upper springs — that would be the Spirit in relation to the heights — but here you have the Spirit in relation to the wilderness setting.
JT It is a question of going through. John rather contemplates us in a general way here as having a right to be children of God.
HH John brings heaven down here. Paul moves us up toward Him.
CT Is that why we get the thought of suffering with Him, this being the wilderness side?
JT “Heirs of God, and Christ’s joint heirs”; the suffering is to denote that the glory is in view. We are not to shrink from it, it is appointed to us, “if indeed we suffer with him, that we may also be glorified with him”, Romans 8:17. Glory is brought in here in connection with suffering, it belongs to the children in the children’s position.
HH It was true of the Lord; He was here in suffering and the saints are here in suffering.
JT The children are morally like the Father, morally like God and therefore like Christ. We are heirs of God, joint heirs with Christ; God is the Source of all but we are the joint heirs of Christ, so that the suffering comes in; as He suffered so we suffer. Christ has given us the right to take the place of children, the Father bestows the love upon us, and then the Spirit instructs us, reminding us continually that we are children of God. It keeps things fresh in our souls.
RQ Enoch had the testimony that he pleased God.
JT Very good; I think God is clearly stressing that we are just on the eve of translation and that He would translate what pleases Him.
HH I would like to ask how you regard it that God allows the creature itself, the beast of the field, to come into this?
JT It is a fact stated, “him who has subjected the same” (verse 20); that is “the creature has been made subject to vanity, not of its will, but by reason of him who has subjected the same, in hope”. I suppose the subjection of the creature was through Adam. Well, there is hope in the matter: “In hope that the creature itself also shall be set free from the bondage of corruption”. This word ‘hope’ is to be noted; the thought comes up earlier in this paragraph: “The anxious looking out of the creature” (that is the hope) “expects the revelation of the sons of God” (verse 19). Then we have suggested: “In hope that the creature itself also shall be set free from the bondage of corruption into the liberty of the glory of the children of God”. These are two remarkable expressions, “the revelation of the sons of God”, and “the liberty of the glory of the children of God”. It is interesting to determine what “the revelation of the sons of God” alludes to, and what “the liberty of the glory of the children of God” alludes to, both affecting the creature.
HH It looks on to the millennial scene.
JT There must be some subjective conditions involved in that there is hope. Where there is hope, who has it? The creature expects first, expects “the revelation of the sons of God”, there is hope for it somewhere. And then, “In hope that the creature itself also shall be set free from the bondage of corruption into the liberty of the glory of the children of God”.
EMc Twice in this chapter we get reference to the sons of God, and we get children of God also.
JT I think it is a combination that is divinely intended on the highway. Sons of God really belong to the land, that is the prospect; but in the meantime what we have actually is that we are children: “The Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit, that we are children of God”.
JF What is referred to here as ‘the creature’?
JT The general animate creation.
JF Is the thought that they are consciously looking for something?
JT There is some hope in the lower creation because the gospel is preached in relation to it. The gospel is preached to all the creation (Mark 16:15), and that means more than man. It is not that you preach to the cattle, for they would not understand you, but you preach to the owner and if he is receptive there would be some change in his care of them; he would alter his attitude.
CT When the children of Israel went out of Egypt they took their cattle with them.
JT The righteous man takes care for the life of his beast, and he does not take his gun and go out hunting for sport; he must respect the creation.
Rem The note to verse 21 in Mr. Darby’s translation says, “’Glorious liberty’ does not give the sense: the creature has no part in the liberty of grace; but it will have in that which glory gives”.
JT That will be in the millennial day when the glory of the children of God will be shining out in sonship. This passage would tell you that we are awaiting something; that is sonship or redemption, “and not only that, but even we ourselves, who have the first-fruits of the Spirit, we also ourselves groan [p. 282] in ourselves, awaiting adoption, that is the redemption of our body”. Our present condition is not in accord with sonship, the redemption of our body is necessary for that so that we are awaiting sonship; the word ‘adoption’ is ‘sonship’, our bodies are not yet changed in suitability to it.
EMc The revelation of the sons of God waits upon the liberty of the glory of the children of God, and the redemption of our bodies?
JT That is the outlook on the highway. It is a wonderful outlook even connecting up the animate creation, that all is coming into the effect of these relations.
CT Verse 18 says, “For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the coming glory to be revealed to us”. Would you say that is moving in the highway with the coming glory revealed to us at the end?
JT That is the thing that is to be kept before us, the coming glory to be revealed to us. Then there is also the glory of the children of God. We are not to lag here but to go forward, Paul is keeping you moving; you do not settle down anywhere.
HH Paul kept moving himself.
JT Quite so. In Philippians he is pursuing, “looking towards the goal, for the prize of the calling on high of God in Christ Jesus” (Philippians 3:14).
JF Would you say that the creature coming into this place is dependent, as we might say, on a subjective work?
JT They await the revelation of the sons, they are anxious; the looking out of the creature expects the revelation of the sons of God. It must be in some representative way, for a cow or a goat does not expect; it must be as linked up with those who are intelligent. We have the first-fruits of the Spirit; “We ourselves, who have the first-fruits of the Spirit,
we also ourselves groan in ourselves”; we groan with the groaning creation; I think the intelligence must be in ourselves as part of the creation. That is what is meant in the living creatures in the book of Revelation. We are connected with creation, we must be viewed as associated with the intelligent part of it, so that we carry with us the idea of the creation which God never gives up.
JF Would you say that the living creatures are representative of the whole creation?
JT They are not as great as the elders, but they say a great deal about the “Lord God Almighty, who was, and who is, and who is to come”, Revelation 4:8. All that intelligence is somewhere in the creation, and where would it be but in ourselves? The living creatures are symbolic of the whole creation, whereas the elders represent experience with God; their tithe would indicate that. We have part in both.
HH I think what you just said about God having rights as Creator is the foundation of everything. Job was defective in his knowledge of God as Creator.
JT That is one great trend running through the book of Job. God spoke to Job about thirty different creatures, each one of them witnessing to God, whether it was an ostrich, or a war-horse, or leviathan. Leviathan would allude to the devil, and what we are speaking of now includes the devil. God uses Satan too, not indeed as a creature awaiting the revelation of the sons of God, but as an instrument. So that Job comes into what we are speaking about, into the idea of the “living creatures”; they refer to that element of creation which is delivered.
RQ The bringing in of the creatures would be instructive; we look forward to what God has in His mind on the basis of our intelligence.
JT We groan in ourselves awaiting adoption; adoption here is sonship and we are awaiting that;
[p. 284] our bodies are not yet conformed to it. We have pains and we need food and medicine and other things as they also do; there is a positive link. So God says to Job, I made that creature; it is the same structure of creation as you. So that we are linked up with them by redemption. We have the spirit of sonship already, but our bodies are not ready for sonship yet. God will see that everything that has breath shall praise Him. The principle of leadership is in this; He has brought in leadership in man. So God says to Job, When the foundations of the earth were laid, did you know? Were you born? When the morning stars sang together, were you born then? Did you know what happened? But Job did not know what happened. God would have intelligent leadership in His creation.
HH The book of Revelation would show God putting forth His claim to everything, that is, “Thou hast created all things, and for thy will they were, and they have been created”, Revelation 4:11.
JT Reference to the four living creatures comes in chapter 4, and see the intelligence they have! You have the lion and the calf and the man and the eagle, showing that the lower creation is in mind, but man has the leadership in it. God would say, I made these creatures with you; so that man has a link with the animal creation. The Lord is taking account of them all in relation to their Owner. I hope the brethren agree with what we are saying about the creation, and the living creatures having intelligence, and that the creation groans and we groan with it. All this is instinctively working for the revelation of the sons of God and for the appearing of the liberty of the glory of the children of God.
EMc This thought of being led by the Spirit indicates that I am one of the sons of God; then in verse 26 the Spirit helps, making intercession with groanings that cannot be [p. 285] uttered.
JT God is bringing all this to our attention now so that we should be on the highway. We are conscious that we are linked with the lower creation in our bodies; we represent the looking out, the anxiety. The note to verse 21 that has been read shows that the lower creation has no part really in the liberty which we have, nor in what we have in redemption, for they have not the Spirit of God. But in the meantime they are living creatures and we are linked up with them.
Rem But they will have part in that which glory gives.
JT In the millennium the whole scene will be lighted up by the glory, and the lower creatures will have part in this. We read of the wolf lying down with the lamb and other such things; God will show His great triumph even in the lower creatures.
JF It is a question of liberation with the creatures; they are changed, they are brought into liberty.
JT The wolf and other animals will be changed, God will act in them to change their ferocity.
CT It says in verse 19 that the creature expects the revelation of the sons of God. Is that during the time of groanings?
JT That is the attitude for us now, the creature is looking out for it anxiously. It is not so easy to define that, but I believe it is through the intelligence of the saints viewed as creatures, and as we go about every day we have this outlook.
HH It is interesting to consider things in their right connection and to see how Paul alternates between the thought of sons and the thought of children.
JT I think the types help us. When the children of Israel came to Numbers 21 suggestive of the Spirit, they had the outlook of the land before them and they began to move; they were going there. As [p. 286] children we have needs in the wilderness and we may see in the types how God provides for those needs. For instance, Esau or Edom would not allow them to pass through his land. Moses asked Edom if they could pass through his land but he refused. Edom did not like them. The idea is that the world knew them not; although Israel was related to him, Esau did not recognise any sympathetic link with him at all. God took account of that and provided for Israel Himself. Think of the care that He had for them in the wilderness! He provided water for them, too, out of the rock.
HH What Esau represents would block the way morally in the last days; he would block the way for those going into the land.
JT That is why such severe judgment is pronounced against Edom. It is he that is born after the flesh persecuting him that is born after the Spirit. All that comes out in the wilderness journey on the way to glory.
Ques Do you think that having the Holy Spirit enables us to enter sympathetically into all that is in the creation?
JT I think we look at things as God looks at them, and the Spirit enables us to see all things clearly. The man whom the Lord led out of Bethsaida had to have a second touch; at first he saw men as trees, as too great; he did not see the animals or the landscape. That is the idea now in modernism. He saw men as trees walking, he did not see anything else, but there were many other things to see; what we are speaking of now involves these things. It will appear in the millennium that God has triumphed. God will change the animals, but He changes us in the sense of being begotten of Him. A cow is God’s creature, a domestic creature; God made it with man. If man would see things aright there would not be the same cruelty towards animals. The beast of Revelation 13 is called “the beast” because he has taken on the character of the lower creation.
HH In Ephesians 3 we have “The Father ... of whom every family in the heavens and on earth is named” (Ephesians 3:14,15). How would you speak of the family? Would you connect it with children or with sons?
JT Ephesians 3 contemplates the purpose of God, and children do not enter into that save as we are viewed in that way provisionally now; but the counsels of God would refer to sonship.
HH Would sonship stand in connection with every family in heaven and on earth?
JT I would think so. That is what I am in the presence of God; if He is impressing me with His counsels He is telling me that I am a son. The outlook here is sonship as we already remarked, and we are awaiting it, that is, adoption. Then it says, “Because whom he has foreknown, he has also predestinated to be conformed to the image of his Son, so that he should be the firstborn among many brethren” (verse 29). That line of thought is never connected with children. We are to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He should be the Firstborn among many brethren: that is the outlook on the highway — to connect it with the type — because God has still to care for us in our natural bodies; but the same care will not be needed when our bodies are changed in conformity with sonship; we shall then no longer need care as down here.
EMc It is really the marvellous outlook of the land in Numbers 21, and it is for us to look forward to it in the same manner.
JT It ought to stimulate us because we are drawing near to the time of translation. It is said of Enoch that he was “not found”(Hebrews 11:5). Who was looking for him? Was the military army looking for him?
[p. 288] He was not found. God knew where he was for God took him.
CT The Son really has His place here as the Firstborn, Christ, and we are to be “conformed to the image of His Son”.
JT That is the very purpose of God; you will never get the idea of Christ being the firstborn among children. Children would suggest care down here, but it stops when we are in glory.
CJ Is being “conformed to the image of his Son” really future?
JT Quite so, we must have our bodies of glory. We are awaiting adoption, to be conformed to the image of His Son.
HH Christ is not Son by adoption, but we are.
JT Quite so. It is true that we have bodies of humiliation but God is going to change them into conformity to Christ’s body of glory, and He will be Firstborn among us. Meanwhile we are cared for as children but we also have a link with the lower creation.
JB It says in regard to the rapture, “We shall not all fall asleep, but we shall all be changed”, 1 Corinthians 15:51.
JT The change in the animals from what they are is the victory of God. God will have rescued everything and brought in the glory, brought in the liberty of the glory of children of God.
EMc You referred to the animals being changed back to the way God created them. God said to the serpent, “On thy belly shalt thou go, and eat dust all the days of thy life”. Genesis 3:14.
JT It means that he is living on death. It is a remarkable thing that in this particular setting in Genesis it is one of the lower creatures that God has taken to be His instrument. Satan appears as a serpent; God calls him a name as though he belonged [p. 289] to the animal or lower kingdom and He speaks to him and says, You are to go flat, you are not to stand up, “On thy belly shalt thou go, and eat dust all the days of thy life”. That was a judgment on him. Then God says to him, “I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; he shall crush thy head, and thou shalt crush his heel”. I think God is saying that that is the end of him, his leadership is gone, his head is crushed by the seed of the woman. In Revelation 20:2 he is called “the ancient serpent who is the devil”, and one angel binds him and puts him into the abyss for a thousand years; that is a provision so that he shall not interfere with the liberty of the glory of the children of God. He is certainly interfering now! But after the thousand years he is released. He is feeding on death, but the children of God have the manna that comes down from heaven; we have food from heaven for building up a constitution. We have to eat ordinary things but our food is properly heavenly.
JF As representing Satan the serpent evidently does not represent an element that will be delivered from bondage.
JT The serpent is being used. For instance, if a brother is withdrawn from, the principle is that he is delivered to Satan for the destruction of the flesh; but Satan is not to have any part in the liberty of the glory of the children of God.
HH What is meant by the destruction of the flesh?
JT Destruction of the flesh means that he judges himself. Romans 7 and 8, the flesh is gone.
EMc The serpent as representing the power of Satan never was released from the position into which he was put.
HH It is wonderful how God recovers things for Himself, as Mr. Coates says in his hymn, ‘In the very [p. 290] place of sin we see His glory most’ (431:5). Things are recovered; they are put right.
JT So that the intelligent creature carries everything forward in his forward look, seeing it head up in victory, Satan not interfering any more. The right hope is in us and it is reached. We carry something forward. We belong, of course, to the assembly, but we know something about Israel and we carry that forward in affection. Looking down from heaven we shall see the lion and the tiger change, but that order of things is not going to continue; God will have families, but all will merge into a spiritual condition; but the animals will not merge, they will not continue, they are just provisional. So that what is victorious will eventually merge into what is spiritual. God can make man in flesh and blood condition live indefinitely as shown in the millennium. It is a wonderful triumph! Every little boy and girl will be playing on the streets; that is what God is going to display just to show what He can do. We ought to have all these things in our hearts.
JF So that at the end the tabernacle of God is with men.
JT The heavens and the earth will be entirely new, they will not carry over. But the millennium is not that; there is a possibility of sin there, but it is to show what God can do in defeating the devil. It is wonderful that he should be defeated on moral lines, not by almighty power which God could have used at the beginning; it is all on moral lines. It is the taking away of the first and the establishing of the second as shown in the book of Job.