CHILDREN OF GOD (5)
[p. 291] CHILDREN OF GOD (5)
Philippians 2:12 - 16; Ephesians 5:1 - 21
JT The reference to our subject in these two epistles should afford a fitting close to our meetings. We cannot but include the respective characters of the two epistles in our conversation. They are the most heavenly in their teaching and bearing of all the epistles. Ephesians contemplates our heavenly place, God “has raised us up together, and has made us sit down together in the heavenlies” (Ephesians 2:6), and then “we are ... created ... for good works, which God has before prepared that we should walk in them” (Ephesians 2:10). Philippians corresponds with this in experience down here, so that we are to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling, God working in us, that we may be “harmless and simple, irreproachable children of God in the midst of a crooked and perverted generation”, Philippians 2:15. Ephesians speaks in the passage read of our being “beloved children” of God. What is in mind in Ephesians is our most exalted relation with God as down here as children, and our walk in His ways is to afford pleasure to Him. In Philippians, immediately before what we read, we have the passage relating to the down-stooping of Christ, His obedience even unto death. It is said of Him, “who, subsisting in the form of God, did not esteem it an object of rapine to be on an equality with God; but emptied himself, taking a bondman’s form, taking his place in the likeness of men; and having been found in figure as a man, humbled himself, becoming obedient even unto death, and that the death of the cross”. This surely enters into what is before us because of the question of the mind of Christ being in us, the descending mind of Christ. If we are to [p. 292] correspond with Him we must be irreproachable children, harmless and simple children of God.
Well, that is what is in mind; it is clearly applicable to these latter days. The apostles have been here and have gone, our great leaders that have been used of God to provide the truth have gone, but we are to continue individually to work out our own salvation. Theirs has been worked out, and ours remains to be worked out; it is how we appear in the working out that is the point. We should be “harmless and simple, irreproachable children of God”.
HH Philippians has Ephesians behind it. You cannot be a Philippian unless you have some real sense of what the upper springs are in the heights.
JT Philippians seems to be a complement of Ephesians. Ephesians contemplates our place, our heavenly place, as we are already raised up and set down together in the heavenlies, and Philippians would be a working out of all that. The apostles have gone and we are to work out our own salvation: it is our own; we are to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling, whether it be a whole position on earth or a local position in this city; the salvation has to be worked out.
HH It would be an assembly salvation, so to speak, if it is governed by Ephesian light, would it not?
JT Just so. That is most difficult because we are to carry the brethren with us, and in many local companies or in the saints as a whole the states of soul are really graded, as John’s epistle tells us, into fathers, young men and little children. The little children have to be carried along with us in salvation, and one of the most important things for them is the recognition of leadership, and the recognition of experience in elder brethren whom God would regard as leaders, whether local or [p. 293] general.
HH The young are able to take account of that; the brethren who take part regularly in the meetings leave an impression on the minds of the young. One does not know who is listening, some of the young men and young women have ears to hear; the Lord is encouraging them to listen and to take it in.
JT The hope is that the word of God in what you are saying will affect them in spite of their youthfulness. Youthfulness in itself is a hardship but it suggests what is teachable, and the great point in applying the truth to the young is therefore that there should be in them subjection and confidence in their leaders. In Hebrews we have it brought in that we are to remember our leaders who have spoken the word of God to us, but the present ones do not need to be remembered, they are to be obeyed: “Obey your leaders, and be submissive” (Hebrews 13:7, 17). Aside from being submissive there is no hope at all.
CJ Obedience seems to have a great place in connection with working out our own salvation; it appears at the beginning of an exhortation, then the apostle interrupts himself, but he finishes the exhortation, “My beloved, even as ye have always obeyed ... work out your own salvation”.
JT Obedience is the essential thing for the reception of the Holy Spirit. God gives the Holy Spirit to those who obey Him. There is no hope at all unless there is unqualified obedience, and of course that works out in leadership here, and involves the ordered service in the assembly, because if the assembly is involved all that pertains to it is involved. Whatever the Spirit says in the way of guiding us in assembly service should be listened to: “He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies”; whatever is given in that sense is universal. What one sees in moving about among the saints is that there is disregard for positive truth [p. 294] which should govern us in our service to God in the assembly. The order is that the Lord’s supper refers to the Lord; it is not God’s supper, nor the saints’ supper, but it involves Christ’s marital relations with the assembly. The relationship acts between Him and the assembly, and then the Spirit works in us, the Spirit of sonship, so that we are able to join with Christ Godward as sons. The service proceeds upward on these lines so that we go out through the opposite door to that through which we came in. There is liberty and power available to carry out these obligations such as we have here, the working out of our own salvation amidst contrariety; but as one moves about one senses great incongruity in the service in those who take part, and at times great heaviness; sometimes undue activity, and sometimes lack of regard for the order of the assembly in the hymns that are given out. I mention all this because it really enters into this question of salvation, that we are to work out our own salvation. This morning we had in one of the meetings a prayer for the sick in the midst of the period in which we were speaking to God in a most exalted way. That is not working out our salvation. It is what we are to be saved from, and in order to save ourselves and work out our own salvation in these matters there should be correction given in all long-suffering.
CT The footnote to verse 12 says, ‘to work out into result’; so in the working out you would expect results.
JT These two epistles are intended to show what the working out is in the midst of contrariety. The tabernacle was in that sense a type of how the assembly behaves in contrariety.
EMc Is the “fear and trembling” that I might not interfere with God in His working in me?
JT I am sure that is important, because I cannot say what I please. This enters into many [p. 295] things such as care meetings; there should be the fear and trembling in regard to transgressing. Brethren may say just what comes into their minds unless there is the fear and trembling.
CT Does not the apostle speak of fear and trembling to those in Corinth (2 Corinthians 7:15); is that not on the same line?
JT Well, that would be quite right in regard of God and what He was doing. There is a danger of Satan having part in things; it is a solemn consideration; when the sons of God appeared, Satan also came. If I am in the flesh in any way and have my own welfare or thoughts before me, he will have me for a vessel or instrument.
Rem The passage in Ecclesiastes 5:1,2 might have a bearing, “Keep thy foot when thou goest to the house of God, and draw near to hear, rather than to give the sacrifice of fools: for they know not that they do evil. Be not rash with thy mouth, and let not thy heart be hasty to utter anything before God: for God is in the heavens, and thou upon earth; therefore let thy words be few”.
JT Quite so, it has a very great bearing. We are to work out our salvation at this moment; it is a very critical time and there must be subjection.
PW One would covet spiritual sensitiveness so that the service in the morning meeting might move onward in the proper order.
JT That is what I am thinking of. The Lord has been helping us very much and it involves our salvation, because assembly salvation enters into this matter and that involves the service of God. Then the increasing contrariety in the wilderness is in view here, so it is, “Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling”. That is, we must make room for God whether it be in the local position or the general position, and if we are insubject we are making room for the devil. We have our part in the week,
[p. 296] but these experiences with God go on from Saturday evening to Tuesday morning. The service of God begins on Saturday afternoon in the Far East, in Australia and New Zealand, and then works around to us in Europe and America, ending in prayer on Monday evening. Now if the prayers go up, and they are all taken account of in Christ’s name, then the next thing is the answers. The answers require the subjection of the saints, that they are available to God; and if we are not in subjection we are not usable.
EMc Would the offering of strange fire by Aaron’s two sons come in in connection with this? They acted independently of God.
JT That is a very appropriate reference. The service was halted for the moment as Aaron came under the power of that act, but it was to go on. Aaron failed to eat the sin-offering and Moses rebuked that, but still the service went on; but we can see what confusion there was. How solemn a thing it is, because God is very much more severe with will operating in the assembly than He is as to its working in the wilderness outside. These men were smitten down at once.
HH That was connected with the inauguration of the priesthood, was it not?
JT It was like the sin of Ananias and Sapphira. It was an attempt of the devil against what God was setting up.
JK You are putting obedience on a high level.
JT I am rather treating of the reference to the assembly that Mr. H. made, the ‘assembly salvation’ which is a good phrase. We must go through together. In type the tabernacle represented the whole thought of God in the wilderness. It is most important that it should go through; the attack of Aaron’s two sons in offering strange fire was to defeat the purpose of God going through, but the tabernacle [p. 297] was to go into the land. We are told by Stephen that our fathers brought it into the land. Well, it is to go through, and we must have the order of the service; anything else would be, in character, like the offering of the two sons of Aaron.
EMc It is a very serious matter.
JT It comes out in Corinthians. The apostle in chapter 11 had been speaking about the relation of men and women, and of Christ, as to headship. The Head of every man is Christ, and the head of every woman is man, and the Head of Christ is God. Verse 16 says, “If any one think to be contentious, we have no such custom”(1 Corinthians 11:16); any debating in the assembly is simply acting for the devil, because things can be proved, as by the Bereans who searched the Scriptures to see if these things were so; we certainly should not refuse anything unless we search the Scriptures about it. The apostle disclosed a most distressing situation: that they were eating and drinking in party groups. How can the assembly go through to the land of Canaan like that? That is the point made in the chapter, “Let a man prove himself, and thus eat ... On this account many among you are weak and infirm, and a good many are fallen asleep” (1 Corinthians 11:28,30).
JF Submitting ourselves to one another in the fear of Christ would save us from that.
JT In the presence of submission the devil is shut out; we must go through. The teaching in the main refers to the assembly, that is the divine thought, so that we must keep the directions that are given, as the apostle says, I praise you because ye keep the directions; he makes a point of that in 1 Corinthians 11. If we do not keep the directions given in regard to the assembly we can never be carried through.
CT The directions are carried by all, is that [p. 298] the thought?
JT All were to be brought into it.
AA You spoke of state; I suppose working out our salvation would promote a good state.
JT Quite so. Our individual salvation is one thing but to carry the whole collective idea through is what God has in mind: “Work out your own”, not each his own, but “your own salvation with fear and trembling”. God is with you, He “works in you both the willing and the working according to his good pleasure”.
JF “Our salvation” would involve the exercise of adjusting matters, seeking to adjust one another in relation to the order.
JT That is all in our meetings including our care meetings. Eldership is very scarce; the care meetings have largely to take the place of eldership and in them we take counsel together about matters to the end that we should go through; the assembly thought should go through, should be saved: therefore the importance of subjection one to another.
CT Would you say a little about the passage, “according to his good pleasure”; what is the thought in these words?
JT The thought is that God is pleased with our care meetings and with every meeting as we are all set for the one thing involving “the willing and the working”. The idea of “the willing” would be, I suppose, our subjection; “the willing and the working”, God is in both, it is a continuous thing; the assembly here is a continual pleasure, and God is in it. The first day of the week is the beginning of things, it is inaugurated by the Father. Glory is carried through, “from glory to glory”, in assembly service; then the prayer meeting comes in rightly on the Monday, and on Tuesday would be the question of whether we are available to God in the carrying out of the answers to our prayers. Why should they not be carried out? If we forget the prayers, why do [p. 299] we make them? We should be available for the fulfilment of them, that is the procedure. Then we follow with the reading of the Scriptures, ministry meetings and the like; all is bent toward the one purpose of working out our own salvation.
RQ Obedience is a military idea, is it not, the thought of the will of the commander-in-chief being carried out, and obedience attained?
JT I think that is good. “If any one thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him recognise the things that I write to you, that it is the Lord’s commandment”, 1 Corinthians 14:37. If there is insubjection in the household, it will be in the meeting also; very often the insubjection develops in the sisters, and then brothers are brought under their influence. I would not be unfair to the sisters, but the principle is that Eve was in the transgression, then Adam was brought into it. A sister’s influence in the home very often leads to insubjection in the care meetings.
PW Would the care meeting be the most likely meeting to expose us as to our own salvation?
JT I think so. It ought to be a spiritual matter. The Lord says, “Behold, I am with you all the days” (Matthew 28:20); and, “Where two or three are gathered together unto my name, there am I in the midst of them”. Matthew 18:20. Fear and trembling certainly belong to that matter of salvation, and subjection one to another.
HH The care meeting is to be in power and obedience to the Lord, having the welfare of the assembly in mind. We learn the character of our brethren, they measure us and we measure them; the measure comes out largely in the care meeting and the local assembly gets the result of it. The idea of a man having a lot to say in a care meeting and nothing to say in the assembly is out of balance.
JT As we were saying yesterday in regard to John’s writings, personalities in the assembly greatly [p. 300] help in this matter; the elect lady, for instance, in John’s second epistle, is a person who has a house under her control; her husband is not mentioned; it is no doubt an allusion to the assembly itself. Then in the third epistle there is a brother called Demetrius, who has witness borne to him by all. The elect lady is an excellent example; there is love for her and for her children as walking in truth. It is a remarkable thing that the apostle addresses her; he had spiritual dignity in mind. Peter alludes to someone in Babylon in the same way. Then Paul says that a widow whose name is to be put on the list should be not less than sixty years old, “borne witness to in good works, if she have brought up children, if she have exercised hospitality, if she have washed saints’ feet, ...”, 1 Timothy 5:9, 10. Sisterhood is in mind in all these examples as needful for the ordering of the house of God, indirect influence. A sister is to ask her husband at home, and in asking him and in what he says to her she would answer him and help him and that would be indirect influence.
HH I would say a word on that line of things in regard to the sisters and their husbands. Sisters are likely to make a mistake in putting themselves before the claims of the Lord. God is to be first, and then the husband, but trouble occurs when a woman puts herself in front of her husband. The influence of sisters over their husbands is a very serious thing. The service of God comes before the relation of a wife to her husband.
CJ Is there not often a tendency with our wives to instruct instead of asking their husbands?
JT That is true. But the wife is to be subject in hearing, and in asking him as to what happened in any meeting where she is not present; she is to enquire further what is meant. He says certain things and she also says certain things and what she says might be a help to the husband, enriching him on those lines. Peter spoke about “fellow-heirs of the grace of life”(1 Peter 3:7). “The grace of life” is a beautiful expression. It would include the morning readings in the family, and the husband would certainly be helped in the assembly relations on those lines. Take such persons as Aquila and Priscilla: we have noted that Priscilla’s name is mentioned first exactly the same number of times as Aquila’s; that would mean that heaven’s pleasure is equal in these two persons. When Apollos goes to be instructed, Priscilla is available to have part in the matter, showing that she would help her husband, joining in as her husband presents matters to him; they talk to him together. They are set down as examples of how wives may help their husbands, each developing to equal value in the eyes of heaven.
JK Does headship enter into what you are saying?
JT I am sure that is it. So the point is to learn that the woman was in the transgression; I do not know how many minutes she was in it before Adam, but she brought him into it.
EMc Do you think that a sister should speak in the presence of a brother?
JT I think she would just join in. It says of Apollos that “being fervent in his spirit, he spoke and taught exactly the things concerning Jesus, knowing only the baptism of John. And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue. And Aquila and Priscilla, having heard him, took him to them and unfolded to him the way of God more exactly”, Acts 18:25,26. Well, that would be just opening up a thing; why should not a sister do that? How comely that would be for her to enter into! It is all in view of salvation, the working out of it, we cannot leave any of the saints behind; they will all go when we are translated to heaven. Apollos was [p. 302] a man characteristically exact, but they made him more exact.
EMc In speaking to a sister, the elect lady, John says, “I rejoiced greatly that I have found of thy children walking in truth”. They would be good assembly material.
JT Very good.
CT I suppose we lack in our households as husbands and wives in not praying together as to things of the assembly. I am not thinking of the family prayer but a man and his wife praying alone as to things in the assembly.
JT Do you carry that out?
CT Yes.
JT As “fellow-heirs of the grace of life”.
Rem As fellow-heirs of the grace of life, is it right for the sisters to know all the important things that are taken up in the care meetings?
JT I think they should. They should ask, and even if they do not ask they should be told. That is the way, as I understand it, that the wife should know everything. Peter says, “That your prayers be not hindered”.
EMc When a brother is praying in the home how can she say ‘Amen’ if she knows nothing about it?
CT What about the single sisters, how are they going to know?
JT The single sister ought to be free to ask any brother as to anything, and many do, too. It is ‘men and women’, not ‘husband and wife’. It seems to me that these things are needful for children of God: “Do all things without murmurings and reasonings, that ye may be harmless and simple, irreproachable children of God”. That is the intent of our position, to be “as lights in the world, holding forth the word of life”. You see the need of persons being guides, “holding forth the word of life”. It is a remarkable expression, “the word of life”: how [p. 303] people are to be saved completely out of the realm of death.
EMc Would the thought in this passage link up with the Lord’s intentions for the children of Israel, that they should walk through the wilderness in perfect order?
JT That is what Balaam saw, and how they were to move always on the principle of leadership, Judah head of the first group; all is on the principle of divine counsel and leadership. It is a beautiful sight from the divine point of view. It is interesting that the ark went before them first to find out a place for them; if we do not see that the collective position has to be carried through, we miss all that we have been saying.
JF It is sad if we are unable to submit to leadership.
JT There is then no possibility of carrying through the collective thought.
JF Submission would do away with murmurings and disputings.
JT One of the principal things that marked Israel was murmuring.
HH There is not only the matter of obedience on the part of the saints generally, but the exercise of the older brethren should be that they may be able to lead. If an officer takes his men on the wrong road and into the very camp of the enemy, that is not good leadership. Those of us who are older have a responsibility as to what example we are setting our brethren.
JB Would “holding forth the word of life” be over against “a crooked and perverted generation”?
JT That is what Paul calls “a boast for me in Christ’s day”. Then as regards Ephesians, it is, “Be ye therefore imitators of God, as beloved children”, Ephesians 5:1. That is a beautiful touch, “imitators of God”! How expressive of God Christ was, “a sweet-smelling savour” to God. Now He is not here, but we are.
JF The subjects of love and of walking are quite prominent in Ephesians, how we are to walk in love and how things are to be done in love.
JT I was calling attention to that very point in the second chapter: “For we are his workmanship, having been created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God has before prepared that we should walk in them” (verse 10). He does not leave it to us as to what we are to do.
JF “Ye were once darkness, but now light in the Lord; walk as children of light” (chapter 5:8); it is all through the epistle — walking as children of light.
CT “Even as Christ loved us”; would that be the pattern?
JT It is to bring out how we are to take His place, “an offering and sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling savour”.
EMc It really suggests laying down our lives for the brethren.
JT That is “a sweet-smelling savour”. The things that the apostle alludes to in the following verses are not out of place, because we are living in such filthy surroundings, in the awful, unclean conditions that exist; so that it is quite in keeping with what we are saying to note the things that the apostle mentions, that certain things are not to be even named among us, they should not even be known, down to the “foolish talking, or jesting, which are not convenient”. In the military camps there is hardly anything else but that sort of thing, and our young brethren are exposed to that.
EMc And perhaps indecent talk; we are reminded that this is unbecoming to the children [p. 305] of God.
JT God is taking account of what we shall have to contend with, so that His thoughts may go through.
CT The apostle brings before the Ephesians in verse 8 that we were once darkness, but now light in the Lord.
JT “Ye were once darkness, but now light in the Lord; walk as children of light, (for the fruit of the light is in all goodness and righteousness and truth), proving what is agreeable to the Lord; and do not have fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather also reprove them, for the things that are done by them in secret it is shameful even to say. But all things having their true character exposed by the light are made manifest; for that which makes everything manifest is light. Wherefore he says. Wake up, thou that sleepest, and arise up from among the dead, and the Christ shall shine upon thee”. It would look as though a person asleep is like a person dead. Christ does shine and He shines on the living.
Rem In Romans 12, dealing with the question of offering our bodies, they are not offered in death but are given over to God as a kind of burnt-offering, and that results in a sweet-smelling savour.
JT The presenting of our bodies is an intelligent service; it is a present act, a living sacrifice. That would be the beginning of this; but this is corresponding with Christ as beloved children, imitators of God, it is a question of setting out what God is.
EMc Would this be the result of current ministry in these days?
JT That is what the ministry is for, God’s gracious provision for the brethren to help us through in this terrible crisis.
JF Do you think “imitators of God” would refer back to “compassionate, forgiving one another”, in the previous chapter?
[p. 306] JT Just so.
HH That would work out in the Philippians, would it not?
JT So that these epistles are the most exalted in their bearing, and work out in what is heavenly expressing itself in the midst of these circumstances that are described here, the most dreadful circumstances, how we are to escape them by refusing even to name them. Then he goes on to say, “For this reason be not foolish, but understanding what is the will of the Lord. And be not drunk with wine, in which is debauchery; but be filled with the Spirit, speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and chanting with your heart to the Lord”, Ephesians 5:17 - 19. The allusion is to our ordinary circumstances in the assembly, to maintain holy buoyancy in our circumstances, because singing has that effect, “Singing and chanting with your heart to the Lord”. We have the Lord in mind in it; it is not merely singing tunes that we like, the tune having more place than the words, but the words having direct reference to the Lord.
HH In addition to the family reading, is it not well to sing a hymn in the morning?
JT It does promote holy joy as you enter the day. We do. We are apt to get under things, but we should be kept above the circumstances. We sing not simply for the tune but the words.
EMc How would you classify these three: “psalms and hymns and spiritual songs”?
JT Psalms would refer to our experience, hymns to the Father, and spiritual songs to the Lord Jesus. A hymn is a settled thing having reference to God or the Father.
EMc Are spiritual songs as high as hymns?
JT Hardly; hymns are on a higher level. The first song is spoken of in Exodus 15; it is a celebration; there is leadership in it; but the first actual [p. 307] singing is mentioned in the book of Job, and there is no leadership there: “When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy” (Job 38:7). Singing in the assembly is through leadership. ‘Father, Thy sovereign love has sought’, would be a hymn: ‘Sing without ceasing, sing the Saviour’s present grace’ (12:1), is a beautiful song.
EMc You would not sing a spiritual song in the morning meeting?
JT I think a song is a celebration; a spiritual song might be sung as we sit down together. The real position is that we have come together to break bread. It is not the thing to do it just at once perhaps, so someone would say, so to speak, Let us celebrate! It is to the Lord above.
CT When Paul and Silas praised God with singing, would that be a spiritual song?
JT Very likely. They were praising God in prayer, showing that there was power developed on a high level, and the prisoners heard.
CT It was a sign of joy.
PW You have said a great deal about singing; would you say something about how to sing?
JT The Lord said, “In the midst of the assembly will I sing thy praises”, Hebrews 2:12. When He prayed one of the disciples heard Him and he asked Him to teach them to pray; they learned how to pray from the Lord. We should learn how to sing from the Lord. Sometimes you get beautiful touches, the Spirit of God is there, and you learn there; you get the highest thoughts in the assembly; you do not get anything like it anywhere else. I think that is it. The psalmist says, “One thing have I asked of Jehovah, that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of Jehovah all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of Jehovah, and to inquire of him in his temple”, Psalm 27:4. That is the high place, the high [p. 308] instruments, and then to dwell in the house of the Lord for ever.
Rem We ought to desire to qualify for the way of addressing that the apostle gives in this chapter.
JT Just so. We are delightful to the Father as imitators of Him and like Christ, so that what we do is fragrant to God, a sweet-smelling savour.
EMc Would you say something about, “Submitting yourselves to one another in the fear of Christ”?
JT I think ‘Christ’ is a more appealing term and title than ‘Lord’, ‘the Lord’ would suggest authority; Christ involves grace, the anointed One, producing submission, so that we are submitting ourselves to one another in His fear; you submit to any brother that is right, submitting to one another without preference. Why not attend to what that brother says? There may be something in what he says that will help, and that will regulate the whole position.