PRESERVATION IN CIRCUMSTANCES OF PRESSURE (5)
[p. 400] PRESERVATION IN CIRCUMSTANCES OF PRESSURE (5)
Psalm 69:1 - 36; Psalm 72:18 - 20
JT It seems fitting that we should close our session in the second book of Psalms with the sufferings of Christ as a subject by itself. We have had varied features of the truth as they are seen in the book, and now it seems we should give our minds to the sufferings of Christ. This 69th Psalm is one of the suffering psalms, especially the psalm of sorrow. There are four outstanding psalms which may be thus regarded, the 22nd, 40th, this one and the 102nd. This one is the longest and it will be noted how it stresses hatred of Christ, fixed hatred manifested against the Lord. Remember, the word “hate” is not used in this connection in any of the others; it is used in this special psalm once, standing over against lovers of Christ. In looking through the book, there is the thought of those who are lovers of Christ, especially in the circumstances which the book contemplates, those driven out from the privileges of their homes and local meetings and so on. Now it is a wholesome thing that we should consider together the hatred that there is; that is, whatever external appearance may exist, there is hatred of Christ working out in apostasy. The book contemplates that and, therefore, we have more imprecation than in any of the others, resentment, pointing to the apostate conditions that we have entered upon and which are about to increase. It is the finish and this psalm has in mind how heaven feels about it, how Christ is regarded, how He is hated.
So that what we have in the opening verses is remarkable: “They that hate me without a cause [p. 401] are more than the hairs of my head; they that would destroy me, being mine enemies wrongfully, are mighty: then I restored that which I took not away” (verse 4). After that, we come to the experience on the cross: “Yea, they gave me gall for my food, and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink” (verse 21). After that we have the resentment and the judgment really called for: “Let their table become a snare before them, and their very welfare a trap; let their eyes be darkened, that they see not, and make their loins continually to shake” (verses 22, 23). There is no suggestion that we have yet come to the time of retribution, for we are still in the period of grace, the gospel period, grace is still reigning, but it is clear we should become conversant with the Spirit of Christ as set out in punitive judgments that are soon to come when the assembly is removed. We are not to be behind in our judgment; God will judge “your judgment”, it is what the judgment of the assembly arrives at, if we are going out as the dispensation finishes, that we have a true judgment of what is coming.
Ques Is there a sense in which God is free to step aside from the general characteristics of the dispensation to this kind of thing? I was thinking of Judas; Peter quotes this as applying to Judas. I wondered if he represented a certain system of things which might be in our minds as anticipating what is punitive, even in the midst of the dispensation of grace.
JT One thing is to be pointed out: Romans, which is the great gospel epistle, tells us, “For there is revealed wrath of God from heaven upon all impiety, and unrighteousness of men holding the truth in unrighteousness”, Romans 1:18. There is overwhelming wrath revealed. Besides that, we have illustrations of wrath even now in our dispensation, Judas and Jerusalem becoming the subject of wrath:
“[p. 402] But wrath has come upon them to the uttermost”, 1 Thessalonians 2:16. Not yet the final wrath or judgment, but still the thing is there so as to be understood. It is there exemplified. Paul too, in dealing with the sin in the assembly itself says, “If any one love not the Lord Jesus Christ let him be Anathema Maranatha”, 1 Corinthians 16:22. But it is still “Anathema”, and the Christian is not to be a stranger to that.
CAM Would you say the gospel of John assumes this line especially as to the hatred of the Lord as an off-set against the lovers of the Lord?
JT I think he does. John’s writings are severe. He is more severe on Judas than any one. A person in the enjoyment of love cannot abide hatred of Christ: the very thought is an abomination.
Ques “He that hates me hates also my Father”, John 15:23. How would you illustrate that?
JT He said, “But now they have both seen and hated both me and my Father” (verse 24). That would show how in John the Lord as Son lives of the Father. “He that has seen me has seen the Father”, John 14:9.
Our psalm is a matter of opposition to Christ, hatred of Christ, and how it already began when He was here; in fact. His presence is contemplated in the psalm, but the bearing of the psalm is evidently on the last days; it is the end of the book. As we were saying, Paul in dealing with the Corinthians mentions Anathema Maranatha. The curse is not yet, but ready to be executed against non-lovers of Christ. It may take a long time, but it is there. In speaking to the Galatians, he does not defer the judgment, “If any one announce to you as glad tidings anything besides what ye have received, let him be accursed”. Galatians 1:9. It is not deferred, so that wrath in that sense is exemplified, even in this dispensation, so that members of the assembly are not strangers [p. 403] to it.
RWS It says in Psalm 55:12, “For it is not an enemy that hath reproached me — then could I have borne it; neither is it he that hateth me that hath magnified himself against me — then would I have hidden myself from him”. Is that the other side to the picture of Judas?
JT The other side? What is your point?
RWS I mean, is God not gracious in connection with the city, forgiveness being preached there by Peter in Acts? Would it suggest how God gave Judas every opportunity to be true to Him? He is not imputing hatred to him in that psalm.
JT It would be difficult to prove that Judas did hate the Lord. It does not seem he had any feeling about it; he was so absorbed with the love of money. He hanged himself when he found the Lord was condemned to be crucified; he was full of remorse, but still that thought enters in it, the divine wrath on him, the son of perdition.
HGH Do verses 1 to 3 of this psalm suggest general opposition to the Lord, and the thought you have referred to in verse 4, the specific hatred of mankind?
JT The first three verses, of course, would indicate the general subject, how dependent He was, “Save me, O God; for the waters are come in unto my soul. I sink in deep mire, where there is no standing; I am come into the depths of waters, and the flood overfloweth me. I am weary with my crying, my throat is parched; mine eyes fail while I wait for my God”. That is the general plaint, which has the whole psalm in mind. Then the 4th verse is the charge, so to speak, “They that hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of my head; they that would destroy me, being mine enemies wrongfully, are mighty: then I restored that which I took not away”. Now you have in mind that verse 4 is the hatred of mankind?
HGH [p. 404] Yes, I thought it was more specific than the opening verses. The first verses show the general hatred, the condition of the world.
JT The opening verses depict what the Lord was experiencing, His plaint, as it were, but verse 4 refers to known persons, persons known to Him, who hated Him without cause. And how numerous they were! I would say that it is the local position that is in mind, what the Lord was enduring at that time. If we extend and enlarge upon it and bring it into our own dispensation, the punishment that will come about as the church is removed; then, of course, it would refer to Christendom. It is a known Christ that is in mind, the Lord contemplating Himself as a known Person. He is dealing with known facts.
Ques Is it the sense of the necessity for displacement that engenders this hatred? Do you think John’s gospel is in mind; as the baptist speaks of the necessity of Christ’s increasing and his decreasing, the Pharisaical hatred for Christ would be engendered in that sense?
JT No doubt, especially chapter 8. How hand to hand the conflict was between the Lord and the Jews! It was a hand to hand matter, and He brings forward finally who He is. His deity is asserted, as if it were the final bulwark that could not be overcome, but the hatred was there.
JHSr That is not really a case for hatred without a cause. Displacement of self in favour of Christ is blessing.
JT Quite so. From the Lord’s point of view, what cause could there be in view of God coming in? Another psalm says, God “humbleth himself to look on the heavens and on the earth”, Psalm 113:6. He came down, what cause was there? John says, “They have both seen and hated both me and my Father”, John 15:24. What was the cause? The [p. 405] revelation of God was in Christ. The Father is the great feature of John, and the Father is active in Christ. He does not judge anybody, therefore the hatred is inexcusable.
TS Does the hatred only apply to where the gospel is being spread?
JT If we extend the thought here from the circumstances of the Lord’s death, as recorded in the ends of the gospels, it is extended from that into Christendom. It is a question now of God here, as it was then. God here by His Spirit, but here everything carried on in a name. Even as to life, we “have life in his name”, John 20:31. Hence, it is hostility to Christ, it is anti-Christ, not anti-God. John says, “Ye have heard that antichrist comes”, 1 John 2:18. Antichrist points to hatred of Christ.
JTJr Was it specially developed in Edom and characteristic of Edom’s whole line?
JT God says of him that He hated him. That would point to opposition. The prophets say much of Edom’s conduct.
ANW Is it set out in type in the hatred of Joseph’s brethren, because of the special love of his father to him?
JT That is where you get these features. What cause was there? The hatred began and then went on. It will develop full-blown among the Jews presently. Judaism is in mind. Judaism is Christendom, but the devil had Judaism in mind to restore it. It has taken form in the Romish system. You may say of that system that it is to restore what has been set aside by the power of the gospel, so that Anathema, the curse, is there because it is pronounced at the end of the first epistle to the Corinthians (chapter 16:22), where we have the corruption of the temple, the temple of God: “If any one corrupt the temple of God, him shall God destroy”, 1 Corinthians [p. 406] 3:17.
RWS If our young men were hostile to the government, that would be a cause for hatred. Beneath the veneer, is the hatred there because as having the Spirit, we are prepared to go to the wall?
JT That is so. The Spirit, of course, is life; but then the comfort is that there is some one there in the Boards and representatives of the authorities who does like it, so that we are not yet in full anti-christian times, we are still in the period of grace, and some one is representing the Spirit of Christ, even on the Boards; there is some representation even in the government. There is hardly a government that can be regarded as openly antichristian, I mean in Christendom. God is keeping the thing going. Christendom is kept going; that implies something is there.
Rem You credit them with that, even though it is more or less a matter of a young brother.
JT Certainly I credit them with that. All these things are operating now under the government of God, and that is why they are becoming favourable to Christianity and the Bible. Why are the Roman Catholics issuing a revision of the New Testament? Why are they doing it? There is something going on to check the thing, but the hatred is there, it is only a question of God lifting His hand; it is for us to learn to judge the thing, not to be deceived by it.
HB In Ezekiel it says, “Because the Philistines have dealt by revenge, and have taken vengeance with despite of soul, to destroy, from old hatred ...” (Ezekiel 25:15).
JT That is the ancient thing, the old root. They get in the land without going through the Red Sea. That is the idea in Christendom; they have not come through death.
CAM It is very interesting what you say about recognizing everything God is securing, though the hatred is increasing. Would you say that, [p. 407] from John 5 on, the lovers are really more distinguished?
JT Indeed, and the Lord would say and is saying today, the Spirit is saying, Jesus “having loved his own who were in the world, loved them to the end”, John 13:1. It means not to the end of the dispensation but to the end of all contrariety. Nothing can overcome it. He will stand by us; that is very comforting; those who love the Lord shelter in it. John’s gospel brings out the love side, the Father, the Son and the Spirit. The Father loves the Son, and the Son loves His own that are in the world, not those just gathered here now, but in the world where the hatred is, and He loves them right through.
ABP The sufferings here seem to be apart from the consciousness of such a love.
JT We have just come down to that; we are dealing with the initial side now. We have the hatred as stated in verse 4: “They that hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of my head; they that would destroy me, being mine enemies wrongfully, are mighty: then I restored that which I took not away”. This shows how prevalent the idea of hatred was, because the actual position of the Lord here was, in fact, about to be on the cross. How many lovers had He? That is the next thing. They are contemplated as there and John represents himself as the one who knew it; that is, he is the disciple whom Jesus loved and he dwelt in His bosom and leaned on His breast. He is a reserve man, and that reserve man is peculiarly taken up with love and keeping it going.
JTJr Those who stood around the cross would be like the thought of “lilies”, Shoshannim, in the introduction to the psalm here.
JT Why is that there? That is the point. Like the headings of other psalms, it is the result of the emotion of Christ at the time, like the heading of Psalm 22, ‘According to the hind of the morning’. But it is the result that He has in mind. So in this heading, the Lord had results in mind; the lilies were there. “He feedeth his flock among the lilies”, Song of Songs 2:16. He found something, He found Bethany, and so, as extended to ourselves, little places here and there where the Lord feeds, but the hatred is around us.
Ques In the next psalm it says, “Let them turn back because of their shame that say, Aha! Aha!” Psalm 70:3. When Christ was on the cross “they that passed by reviled him, shaking their heads, and saying, Aha, thou that destroyest the temple and buildest it in three days, save thyself, and descend from the cross. In like manner the chief priests also, with the scribes, mocking with one another, said, He saved others; himself he cannot save. Let the Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and may believe”, Mark 15: 29 - 32. Does that link on with this hatred, “Aha, Aha”,?
JT These are extensions of the New Testament, which the Lord would help us to clarify as we proceed.
Q Does the love side you refer to bring into contrast the hatred in John 8:44? “Ye are of the devil, as your father, and ye desire to do the lusts of your father”.
JT Just so. John 8 brings out His own thoughts about it.
GD The more we enter into these feelings and are made to suffer in company with the Lord, the more we shall seek our own company as those in Acts 4 did. It says of them, “And having been let go, they came to their own company” (verse 23).
JT The Acts opens up to us how the hatred continued. Satan having Sadducees in power instead of Pharisees, the Lord had said of him, “For [p. 409] the ruler of the world comes, and in me he has nothing”, John 14:30. But he carried on with hatred, and particularly after the Spirit came down; so in the Acts, the thing is carried forward. The epistles carry the thing forward too, and the addresses to the assemblies carry it forward. Satan is seen right through. Paul says, “Wherefore we have desired to come to you, even I Paul, both once and twice, and Satan has hindered us”, 1 Thessalonians 2:18. He says to the Corinthians, “That we might not have Satan get an advantage against us”, 2 Corinthians 2:11.
SJH Would you say this condition of purity, or lilies, is brought about by understanding a psalm like this? We love and we hate, and we hate all that hates Him.
JT I think that raises a question of shallowness. If we are shallow in love, we shall be shallow in hate. One psalm says, “I hate them with perfect hatred; I account them mine enemies”, Psalm 139:22. God hates an empty vessel; “God loves a cheerful giver”, 2 Corinthians 9:7. We have the thing all around us and in us. If we are shallow in love, we shall be shallow in hatred: we shall make excuses for looseness.
Ques Would you say a word at this point in connection with another part of the heading? Why should a psalm like this be submitted to the chief Musician? In what way does a psalm like this harmonise music?
JT It is a question of what hatred is. The designation “Jah” in the Song of Songs is used in this connection. “Jealousy is cruel as Sheol: the flashes thereof are flashes of fire, flames of Jah” (Song of Songs 8:6). We have already had a word about Jah yesterday, as mentioned so often in the Psalms, forty-three times from Psalm 68 to the end of the Psalms, more than in all the rest of the Bible. As [p. 410] remarked yesterday, it alludes to God in the abstract, but is to be viewed objectively in our hearts, but it is God essentially, and with hatred also; that is, God’s name is Jealous; that is another of His names. Jealousy is cruel as Sheol. It shows what God is as against evil, and so, as the question has just been raised, how such a psalm as this fits into the service of God; well, it is in the result of it, it is no reproach on God that He is jealous, that He has kindled the lake of fire; by His breath it is kindled. It is no reproach on God. He is essentially, infinitely against sin, so that this comes into the service of God, and it is for us not to be shallow, for we are to judge ourselves for shallowness. Whether in love or hate, shallowness is to be dealt with in us, so that the service of God involves these thoughts, the thoughts of this psalm, especially in the result that we get in verses 34 to 36. “Let heavens and earth praise him; the seas, and everything that moveth therein. For God will save Zion, and will build the cities of Judah; and they shall dwell there, and possess it: And the seed of his servants shall inherit it, and they that love his name shall dwell therein”. We can understand, I think, how this psalm enters into the service of God. It is addressed to the chief Musician, and the word “lilies” follows.
Rem It means if I am to be well grounded in ability to contribute to the service of God, I must know God in all His attributes, not only that He loves grace, and rightly too, but His absolute hatred and jealousy.
JT So that He accompanies this dispensation with the thought of the revelation of wrath of God from heaven.
HB Does Revelation 11:16 - 18 fit in? “And the twenty-four elders, who sit on their thrones before God, fell upon their faces, and worshipped [p. 411] God, saying, We give thee thanks, Lord God Almighty, He who is, and who was, that thou hast taken thy great power and hast reigned. And the nations have been full of wrath, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead to be judged, and to give the recompense to thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and to those who fear thy name, small and great; and to destroy those that destroy the earth”.
JT Just so.
ANW Whereas with Laodicea the obnoxiousness of it was “that thou art neither cold nor hot”, Revelation 3:15.
JT That is the thing to be abominated, the shallowness of current Christendom.
ABP There is a verse which says, “Let none of you suffer indeed as murderer, or thief, or evildoer, or as overseer of other people’s matters; but if as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but glorify God in this name. For the time of having the judgment begin from the house of God is come; but if first from us, what shall be the end of those who obey not the glad tidings of God?”. 1 Peter 4:15 - 17. Does that bear on what you say?
JT Very much. The house of God is where God is operating. Therefore the epistle to the Romans was to the assembly in Rome, and they have it there; they are supposed to have it there. Where did they keep it? Where was the ark kept, when it was put with Abinadab? (1 Samuel 7:1). Where was the epistle to the Romans kept? Was it treasured there? Doubtless it was, and I have no doubt it was read in the hearing of Phoebe too; no doubt she was present. Well, that epistle would say, “For there is revealed wrath of God from heaven” right in the middle of Rome. That would be sounded out accompanying the gospel, alongside of the revelation of righteousness; the same word is used for [p. 412] both the revelation of wrath and the revelation of righteousness.
SJH If this hatred was developed as a consequence of love, there would not be much difficulty in getting rid of so many things you have so often mentioned among us. We would hate them without hindering the flow of love.
JT How often after our care meetings we have better assembly meetings and the first Lord’s Day after, I have noticed we have better songs in the assembly, because judgment has been indicated by pronouncement against evil.
JHJr Did Enoch’s prophecy on this line have some bearing on his being translated?
JT There is no doubt about that. That is another point in the New Testament, also the names of the opposers of Moses and Aaron are brought into the New Testament. Why are they brought in? Why are they not mentioned in Exodus? It is because these things are brought into the judgment of the assembly, so that Enoch prophesied, the seventh from Adam, as much as to say, Why should that be? He is a learner, he is a man who has learned by observation, coming down from Adam, and he prophesied about these wicked persons.
CAM Referring again to the care meeting, it is remarkable the feelings it brings out. I was struck with your remark about the house being the place where God operates. The reason for such intense feeling is because there is zeal for that house.
JT That is verse 9: “For the zeal of thy house hath devoured me, and the reproaches of them that reproach thee have fallen upon me”. It is the zeal of God’s house, so we have just been reminded that “the time of having the judgment begin from the house of God is come”, the zeal for which must be there to keep it pure. This verse is quoted in John 2:17, “The zeal of thy house devours me”, where [p. 413] the Lord is driving out the sellers of oxen, sheep and doves. The thing is to be kept pure. The care meeting helps us to keep it pure. God is taking account of us, our feebleness. For the last thirty-five years there has been no general division among the brethren, and I believe the Lord has His mercy on us. We could hardly stand a general scattering, but instead of that, He has sent two great wars. The meaning is that God is preserving the testimony, the brethren, and saving us from the wolf. If this pressure is lifted, we may look out; God may send us something else. We should make the most of pressure for the moment, God is using it to restrain evil.
Rem The fear we might have in regard to bringing forward our judgment as to evil, is traceable, no doubt, to a desire to escape the reproach that may follow. I suppose the Lord here is lending Himself to the full burden and weight of whatever may come upon Him in the way, in zeal for the house of God.
JT That came out in a striking way in the early days, just about one hundred years from now, in 1845 and 1848. This great issue arose, neutrality. First clericalism in a small way, but in a wider sense where shallowness existed. The truth was not given up verbally, but the wickedness was condoned in a sort of hushed-up way, hence the scattering. But it was to preserve the truth. If neutrality called Bethesda had been allowed to remain, the truth would have gone; God gave a standard for some one to preserve the truth, the zeal of the house. The order of the house came out from all that.
Ques Was not controversy centred around this psalm we are now considering?
JT This more particularly came out in 1866, when the truth of the sufferings of Christ came up. The Sufferings of Christ, every brother and sister ought to read that book prayerfully, ought to understand what the Lord went through and acquire love [p. 414] for Christ. If any one does not love Him, as Paul says, “Let him be Anathema Maranatha”.
TS Ezekiel 9 brings forward the matter of slaughter weapons. Six men came forward at the cry with slaughter weapons in their hands to do the work.
JT Very good. Slaughter weapons are an essential thing. An awful verse, but it was there. The man clothed in linen had a writer’s ink-horn by his side.
SJH They stood by the altar before they went out.
Ques In Hebrews 12 God is known as a consuming fire. Does that fit in?
JT It does. “For also our God is a consuming fire” (Hebrews 12:29).
ABP “Do ye not know that we shall judge angels?” 1 Corinthians 6:3. What is the moral basis that their judgment has been reserved for the saints?
JT They are sent out as servants, custodians of things. We know that Satan was the anointed cherub who covered. That would mean that he had a great place in the order of God. Peter speaks about him as having fallen. There must be some basis that the saints have knowledge of, although there is not so much made of that; we are not to intrude into things we have not seen. We do not know as much about angels as we do of men; they are God’s spirits. We must be careful and not put that down by John 4, which says, “God is a spirit” (verse 24). They are called spirits. How much do we know of them? They are a different order from us in nature. It seems as if we are given to understand that we do not know much about them; we do know some have been unfaithful. They have great opportunities and advantages; at least the leader had, and was cast down. He was lifted up because of his beauty, which is an allusion to the devil and the devil has fallen. We are not to be lifted up and fall under the domination of the [p. 415] devil, he was lifted up with pride and fell. I think, as learning that, we judge ourselves as being proud. Lifted up through pride, that was Satan’s condemnation, he was lifted up because of his beauty. I do not know if that is enough to say, but I think it is enough to suggest how the thing may be arrived at. We cannot sit in judgment upon creatures unless we have some means of knowing their condemnation.
JW Would Stephen in his address in Acts 7 bring home the guilt of Israel? “O stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers, ye also” (Acts 7:51).
JT That is the crime written up, as it were; they are indictments. There must be indictments of the devils too, and therefore we have to sit in judgment; we must know.
HB Do you think Jude gives indictments? “And angels who had not kept their own original state, but had abandoned their own dwelling, he keeps in eternal chains under gloomy darkness, to the judgment of the great day” (Jude 6).
JT That is the idea. The indictment is there for the judges to act upon. And then we are to judge the world as well. Perhaps we are in a better position to do that than to judge angels.
AHP Do you regard these two thoughts as two root ideas, love and hatred — hatred marking the children of the devil and love as marking the children of God?
JT Just so. So that as we run down these verses as the Lord speaks in them, and we come down to verse 21, it says, “Yea, they gave me gall for my food, and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink”. And then He proceeds, “Let their table become a snare before them, and their very welfare a trap; let their eyes be darkened, that they see not, and make their loins continually to shake. Pour out [p. 416] thine indignation upon them, and let the fierceness of thine anger take hold of them. Let their habitation be desolate; let there be no dweller in their tents. For they persecute him whom thou hast smitten, and they talk for the sorrow of those whom thou hast wounded” (verses 22 - 26). So that the Lord is associating others with Himself in the attack, enduring the hatred of the opposition. “And they talk for the sorrow of those whom thou hast wounded”. What a word that is! How often we cause sorrow to our brethren through our talk! And we mean it often. It is not love, but hatred. No one is accusing the brethren, but how easily we do it. We “talk for the sorrow of those whom thou hast wounded”. God is dealing with the saints, no doubt, in many ways, and others join in and talk for their sorrow, add to their sorrow.
CAM Perhaps it is because we seem to have an idea that we can judge as to the government of God. We are not able to do that very much, are we? God’s governmental hand rests upon one; we are not often able to diagnose that thing.
JT Because the providence of God involved in His government is really a veil. You cannot always penetrate through it. A brother has sorrow in his family; who has not? We ought to be slow to pass judgment upon it. God is doing it.
GD We want to guard against being the three friends of Job.
JT That is an illustration of how they talked for the grief of one with whom God was dealing in love. “For whom the Lord loves he chastens”, Hebrews 12:6. There may not be guilt there. There may be something God would correct. Here are three friends, they talked for the grief of Job.
Ques Is the antidote to them in verse 5? It is most remarkable language; if you put it into the mouth of the Lord, you can hardly understand how the Lord could use it. “Thou, O God, knowest my foolishness, and my trespasses are not hidden from thee”.
JT That would only bring out what He was vicariously. You cannot attribute anything like that to Him unless it is vicarious, so we can regard this psalm as a trespass offering.
Ques I was wondering if it would be a safeguard to me against speaking “for the sorrow of those whom thou hast wounded” to take the thing upon myself, to look upon the sorrows of the saints as my foolishness, my wounds, my trespasses?
JT That is the idea. It is a suffering psalm. It is not atonement exactly. Atonement does enter into it vicariously. You cannot think of the Lord using the language in verse 5 save in a vicarious sense. Whom is He suffering for? His very persecutors, the Jews, extended to Christendom. The government of God is extended to it, and the Lord is feeling it, and the saints, as He felt it actually in Himself here as to the Jews. All that He suffered Himself He regarded as sins that He had to atone for. He was the King and representative of all and tasted suffering; therefore, in Psalm 40, He speaks of His iniquities, how numerous they were; “They are more than the hairs of my head” (verse 12). That was vicarious, we have vicariousness in this psalm, but then, the Lord is thinking undoubtedly of the trespass offering; for the adversaries talk against men, especially against Him, but against one another. “They talk for the sorrow of those whom thou hast wounded”. That is trespass, and the Lord feels that. If I am speaking against the brethren, I am trespassing against the brethren, and the Lord feels that.
JasP Did Obadiah take that matter up in relation to Edom? God said through him that Edom had laughed when Israel was under the disciplinary hand of God, and thus Edom [p. 418] was suffering.
JT Quite so. The prophet was dealing with that sort of thing. I have heard people say that God has prophesied about the Jews that they would suffer, and therefore it is right for certain ones to persecute them, but it is not right; God will deal with them Himself. He says, No one else can touch them with impunity, so that if I talk for the sorrow of those the Lord has wounded, the Lord feels it, He brings it up. The Lord is Himself suffering from God; that is atoning suffering, “For they persecute him whom thou hast smitten”; that was Himself, “and they talk for the sorrow of those whom thou hast wounded”; that is His people.
ANW In that way does Psalm 22 underlie this one in our souls? The Lord has no sharers in His sorrows there; He is alone in His sorrows, consequently there is no retribution in that psalm, that probably explains it.
JT That is the foundation of the psalm — no retribution there. It is all blessing flowing from it, but in this latter one, there is retribution, nevertheless vicarious sufferings too, so that the saints themselves might be suffering as Christ was suffering under the hand of God. The Lord suffered governmentally and vicariously, that is, for others. The guilt for which He was suffering was a trespass. I believe it is the trespass offering. Psalm 22 is the sin offering; Psalm 40 is the burnt offering; this one would be the trespass offering; the Lord took all on Himself; but then we must watch for trespassing. Matthew 18 brings the whole matter into the assembly; it is a matter of trespass.
ABP Would the Lord’s words, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do” (Luke 23:34), be in virtue of the trespass offering?
JT You mean, He regarded it as trespass?
ABP Or would you call it a sin [p. 419] offering?
JT It would be a trespass offering in that sense; what they were doing was wickedness, but He gives them credit for ignorance, so that it was a sin of ignorance, and that comes under the heading of sin offering (Leviticus 4). When a sin of ignorance comes to your knowledge you are guilty and have to settle it.
JTJr Zacchaeus brought in that side. “Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor, and if I have taken anything from any man by false accusation, I return him fourfold”, Luke 19:8.
JT Just so. That is a good sign; the Lord says, “He also is a son of Abraham”. Persons who offer trespass offerings are sons of Abraham.
ANW I think you spoke of another psalm as the burnt offering.
JT The 40th Psalm. The burnt offering is alluded to there. “Behold, I come, in the volume of the book it is written of me — To do thy good pleasure, my God” (verses 7, 8).
TS What difference would you make in Paul saying, “On this account many among you are weak and infirm, and a good many are fallen asleep” (1 Corinthians 11:30), in the light of that matter?
JT That would underlie the government of God. They are not lost people any more than Ananias and Sapphira, but they suffer for their guilt, in government. “On this account many among you are weak ...” For what cause? Not for murder, nor as evil people, but as people who do not know how to conduct themselves before God in the assembly.
SJH Would you suggest that this works out in regard of the young men in their position in the army and scattered?
JT It is a time for them to learn the sufferings of Christ; they will have plenty of this, for they have to do with all kinds of men, some lovers of Christ may be, some haters, and Satan uses these circumstances;
[p. 420] it is for them to be lovers in them. He speaks of retribution here, but in Psalm 22 He does not; and even here He says, “Then I restored that which I took not away”. That is the spirit of grace, but the idea of the punitive suffering from God runs throughout this dispensation into the next, more suitably in the next. The people will be earthly saints, more qualified to be vessels and instruments of God’s judgment effectively. All this comes under that.
RWS “For Jehovah heareth the needy, and despiseth not his prisoners”, Psalm 69:33. Would there be something in that? Paul said, “I, the prisoner in the Lord”, Ephesians 4:1. Could our young men view themselves in that way?
JT I think what we said at the beginning of our meetings runs through. Our young men are driven out, not in a formal way by the government, but by force of circumstances; the devil is in it, and God is in it too governmentally, but the devil would use it to damage them. Satan would produce resentment, to speak against the authorities. That all enters into what we are saying, so our brethren should be preserved and should come out under the pressure more useful to the assembly. If it is not contributory to the assembly, it has failed in its end. It defeats its own end.
CAM In speaking of the sin offering you are thinking of the holy nature of God. In speaking of the trespass offering you are thinking of the line of God’s government.
JT Matthew brings that out. Luke confirms it. “How often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? until seven times? Jesus says to him, I say not to thee until seven times, but until seventy times seven”, Matthew 18:21, 22. If you do that, he may be led to bring his trespass offering and, of course, that would reach the service of God. Matthew had that in [p. 421] his mind.
JHSr Would you say that Psalm 102 is the meat offering?
JT I would not venture there. Maybe it is. It is a beautiful psalm, because it contemplates the Lord in suffering, and ultimately it says, “Take me not away in the midst of my days!” and then the answer, “Thy years are from generation to generation” (Psalm 102: 24). His deity comes to light.
TS Is it not so, in the letters from the young men, we do not find any complaint against even the officers or the government, compared to what you hear men in the shops saying?
JT I am sure you are right. One is greatly encouraged with the visits too. We get a good many visits in the East, when they are about to leave for the front. We are very much encouraged by what we see. I am sure heaven is too. This psalm contemplates those that are not in Jerusalem, as it refers to what they have left behind them; they have left Jerusalem.
HP Would that be seen in David? It says, “Saul eyed David from that day and forward” (1 Samuel 18:9); he sought to smite him, “but David turned away from him twice” (verse 11).
JT The experience of David being driven out lays the basis for all these psalms.
Rem You can understand why he is called the sweet psalmist. All this penetrates into your moral being.
JT But the psalm runs on, and we might notice the results in verses 29 to 35. “But I am afflicted and sorrowful: let thy salvation, O God, set me secure on high. I will praise the name of God with a song, and will magnify him with thanksgiving; and it shall please Jehovah more than an ox, a bullock with horns and cloven hoofs. The meek shall see it, they shall be glad; ye that seek God, your heart shall live. For Jehovah heareth the needy, and despiseth not [p. 422] his prisoners. Let heavens and earth praise him; the seas, and everything that moveth therein. For God will save Zion, and will build the cities of Judah; and they shall dwell there, and possess it”. The cities of Judah, so to speak, are being reduced; many small meetings are hardly able to keep going; it is a real exercise. It would be a help to the young men if they were to keep in mind that their places are empty. We read of David’s seat being empty — their places are empty and, of course, their prayers must take the place of their presence in the localities from whence they have come.
SJH David remembered them in his absence and sent presents after his victory.
JT Quite so.
Rem Psalm 72:19 suggests a certain richness that some brethren take on now as you suggest: “And blessed be his glorious name for ever! and let the whole earth be filled with his glory! Amen, and Amen”. It fills the whole earth, not only the cities of Judah.
JT It seems as if we should not close without an allusion to Solomon, because the recent help that the assembly has received from God by the Spirit refers to Solomon largely. It refers to sonship. The last psalm in the book is “For Solomon”. It is headed in that way. It commences, “O God, give the king thy judgments, and thy righteousness unto the king’s son”. So it is one continuous tribute to Solomon. It would seem as if it enters into this psalm; it enters into what Peter says, “Testifying before of the sufferings which belonged to Christ, and the glories after these”, 1 Peter 1:11. They are coming in quickly now, Christ in the Spirit (Psalm 69). Solomon is the close of the book; it is for Solomon. We see the king and the king’s son; that is, the Father and the Son, but especially the Son, as if the Spirit of God would give Him a place that perhaps He has not had in assembly service.
[p. 423] He is an object of worship in assembly service and the way the truth has come to us is intended to move us in that way. The hymn book, of course, helps in it. The three closing verses are, you may say, added to complete the whole matter, as it is a principle of God to finish a thing. “Blessed be Jehovah Elohim, the God of Israel, who alone doeth wondrous things! And blessed be his glorious name for ever! and let the whole earth be filled with his glory! Amen, and Amen. The prayers of David the son of Jesse are ended”. The combined title of Jehovah Elohim refers back to Genesis 2 and 3, and it comes in here in connection with the prayers of David and all his exercises, and it looks as if the sorrows of what has happened during the last 130 years must be in mind, but now there is this great truth of the sonship of Christ and His being charged with the service, in charge of everything in it, sitting on the Father’s throne — because that is the position in 1 Chronicles — the whole service of God coming in there. Well, that is the point to finish with, “The prayers of David ... are ended”, the finish of the thing; his prayers went right on to the finish.
CAM Would you say there is an attack by the enemy to destroy sonship in that very matter at the present time? God is securing something especially beautiful in these young men.
JT I tell the Lord about them taking them up in an abstract way as the nazarites of Zion, taking the words up from Lamentations. Our prayers will have that in mind, that they may come home better men in the service of God than they were.
Rem “Know that our brother Timotheus is set at liberty; with whom, if he should come soon, I will see you”, Hebrews 13:23. I suppose that is what we are looking for. “I will see you”; that is, these nazarites like Timothy.
JT I suppose we should be free to say Paul was the writer of the Hebrews. He would be like the Spirit [p. 424] of prophecy, we get His personal voice in the prophets, but here I think the writer would mean what he represented, he would come with Timotheus. When he comes the thing will be resumed, set free. It would be a resumption of the ministry accentuated in some little way.
RWS “Amen, and Amen” is a very buoyant finish.
JT The double Amen is fixity, I should think. It is something like “Verily, verily”; the Lord uses that term or phrase twenty-four times but only in John’s gospel, which is very significant; things are verified.
JTJr “The whole earth ... filled with his glory” is carried forward from Numbers 14:21.