PRESERVATION IN CIRCUMSTANCES OF PRESSURE (4)
[p. 376] PRESERVATION IN CIRCUMSTANCES OF PRESSURE (4)
Psalm 60:1 - 12; Psalm 68:1 - 18
JT The idea of conflict and territory acquired through it victoriously is in mind in this group of psalms. It is thought that this will be seen as applicable to our dispensation, for it involves territory acquired morally, not militarily in the ordinary sense, but in a moral sense by conquest through the Scriptures, as the word, through the gospel. The book leads on into the millennium, which we shall see, God willing, tomorrow, for the remaining psalms after 68 lead directly to the millennial day. Indeed these psalms do too, only their peculiar application is on moral lines, the name God being used, not Jehovah. Now this runs through the whole of the second book: Jehovah sometimes comes in, but God is more definitely before us in this section and God is before us of course in the present dispensation. We have “God’s glad tidings, ... concerning his Son ... Jesus Christ our Lord”, Romans 1:1 - 4.
So what is to be observed in this first psalm read is that it records historically a great triumph for David, and that thought enters into the psalms we have immediately before us. It was a triumph for David, not when he was driven out as we had earlier, although that enters into these first verses too, but it is a triumph during his reign and territory is acquired, not for the sake of acquiring it, but because it was usable. There is not much in territory unless it can be used. It is only a name. So that we have here in verses 6 to 8, “God hath spoken in his holiness: I will exult, I will divide Shechem, and mete out the valley of Succoth. Gilead is mine, and Manasseh is mine, and Ephraim is the strength of [p. 377] my head; Judah is my law-giver; Moab is my washpot; upon Edom will I cast my sandal; Philistia, shout aloud because of me”. That is, the shout really refers to God. His is the triumph, as another section teaches us. Now this psalm affords a good opportunity to consider the idea of territory as acquired for present use by God: “The earth is Jehovah’s, and the fulness thereof”, Psalm 24:1. Universally it is His and it is acquired through redemption. That is what has come up now. The moral right expresses redemption. God is only acquiring territory for what is usable in it, which leads up to the saints being taken on by God for usefulness, for service; this culminates in Psalm 68, where we have the great thought of headship which is quoted in the book of Ephesians. So that we have a direct application to Christianity in the present period in these psalms.
Ques Would the apostle Paul himself be a great evidence of what God has secured for His own use in that way?
JT I think he represents what we are speaking of. He is called a vessel by the Lord. That is, he is acquired not merely for heaven but for usefulness in service here below and he it is that tells us about journeyings, and about labours, and about territory. “I, from Jerusalem, and in a circuit round to Illyricum, have fully preached”, Romans 15:19. What an immense territory he had to do with! He indicates he had Rome in mind. That was the western extremity of the then known world.
ANW In John 4 the Lord seems to secure more from Samaria than He does from Israel. “Jesus therefore, being wearied with the way he had come”(John 4:6).
JT That is a good suggestion. “Being wearied” with His journey, He not only acquired drink but two days’ lodging. He was entertained; another good suggestion. The great idea of entertaining, hospitality, is included in what we are speaking of. We are [p. 378] not to be forgetful of it. The levites are not a burden to be pushed off at any time as soon as we are through with them. They are to be regarded “exceedingly in love on account of their work”, 1 Thessalonians 5:13.
Ques Does the territory taken, beginning with verse 6, suggest that in the recovery in the power of Christianity and the gospel it extends to both sides of the Jordan? Some of this territory is on the east of Jordan, and therefore involves the light and glory of God getting into the households and business relationships, all our private lives, as well as our ecclesiastical lives.
JT Quite so. The territory here is easily traceable and can be applied any time by way of extension. God was not pleased to extend Himself through the gospel towards the East. The Euphrates was not passed. David makes much of that; he establishes his dominion by the Euphrates in 1 Chronicles 18:3, but the gospel does not seem to have worked in that direction. The modern effort does not seem to be a success. The successful or fruitful territory is in the West.
Ques Are you referring to the scripture in Acts 16:6, 7: “Having been forbidden by the Holy Spirit to speak the word in Asia, ... and the Spirit of Jesus did not allow them”?
JT That is good. That comes in, showing how the Spirit was operating in the vessels. Paul was a vessel and he was amenable to the suggestions of the Spirit. He was not suffered by the Spirit to do so and so. The word “Asia” there is the province, not the continent, and was much used in gospel service, but still the point was made at that time that Paul was to proceed into the West. Hence, the man of Macedonia comes in a vision to him and says, “Pass over into Macedonia” (the idea of territory is specially mentioned) “and help us”. Acts 16:9. It was [p. 379] not a matter of military conquest; the point is a moral conquest. Paul would be the helper.
RWS How do you understand the first five verses, where it speaks of scattering and bewilderment and displeasure?
JT That is in keeping with the teaching of the book. We never lose sight of Israel being scattered and driven out. That is not all Israel, not the apostate or disobedient Israel, but the remnant, those who were subject. The book always keeps that in mind, and it fits in here. The writer, David, contemplates in the very presence of a great victory that the saints should suffer. “O, God, thou hast cast us off, thou hast scattered us, thou hast been displeased: restore us again”. That is a prayer, a petition. You may wonder why it is brought in where he has got a great victory. “Thou hast made the earth to tremble, thou hast rent it; heal the breaches thereof; for it shaketh. Thou hast shewn thy people hard things; thou hast made us to drink the wine of bewilderment”. Well, as remarked, it seems incongruous that it should be brought in in the very presence of victory but it is in keeping with the second book of Psalms where the people are driven away from their proper settings and their privileges, but where their minds keep clearly the great things of God, His purposes and prophetic intentions.
RWS Is not that a moral victory in itself, the people acknowledging that?
JT It is. That is the point now whether those who are much spoken of amongst us, in our meetings, are able to use such things, able to use such language, being able to use their minds to refresh, to carry with them what they once enjoyed. In speaking of our dear young brethren we must not think it is all for them, because the Spirit of God has ourselves who are gathered here in mind. Are we [p. 380] learning and able to use such language when we are not passing through these things actually?
HGH Does it suggest that territory can only be obtained as a result of pressure in circumstances, as in the opening verses?
JT Just so. Why should we escape? “In pressure thou hast enlarged me”, Psalm 4:1. But all the saints are involved, and if this territory is immune, and it is more or less, it is territory governed of God that is in view. Well, are we to be immune from the proper exercises that affect the brethren elsewhere? Are we not to share in them?
JTJr The idea of striving comes in in the heading of the psalm. It says, “when he strove”; the teaching must strive to overcome what may be in some of us.
JT The Syrians of Mesopotamia had to be met in the early part of Judges, Othniel the son of Kenaz, Caleb’s younger brother, led in that triumph. Mesopotamia refers to the land of the two rivers. “Syrians of Zobah”, it is noticeable the place the Syrians have. It is a well-known conflict and a successful one. These exercises in the early verses are proper to us even though we are not passing through them directly in our experiences.
CAM I wondered if the fact that the Syrians are made prominent in the heading, would connect with the commencement of the apostle’s career at Damascus when “he preached Jesus that he is the Son of God”, and when the king of the place was against him.
JT That is a good suggestion. We have already touched on Paul as entering into the whole position here. The Lord at that particular time calls him, “an elect vessel to me”, Acts 9:15. That is, he is laid hold of for service. Now he has to learn how to serve in Syria. We know how the gospel was introduced in connection with Syria in the time of [p. 381] Naaman, and how we have it in Saul of Tarsus, the inhabitant of the street called Straight, and how he had to learn to go into the Syrian city and be told what to do. He has to learn to be obedient, for he is to be a vessel, usable, and to have others, not superior officers, but ordinary persons, telling him what to do. The Lord Himself could have told him what to do better than any, but he is to be told what to do by ordinary brethren.
Ques Would the word, “testimony”, in the heading refer to that?
JT No doubt.
CAM He expresses it to the Galatians, “God ... was pleased to reveal his Son in me” (Galatians 1:15,16). I was thinking about this matter of learning to do what he was told. What a great matter that must have been for him!
JT So one has to be like a wash-pot, a very degraded sort of occupation for most of us: “Moab is my wash-pot”. Moab is said to be very proud in its historic characteristics. Paul was very proud and he had to become a wash-pot.
JHJr Does John Mark have to come this way before he can be called serviceable and take up teaching on this line?
JT He had to learn it over again. He represents a journeyman who fails in his novitiate. The Levites had a novitiate which was five years. John Mark failed; he returned from the work. The idea in the Levite is work (Numbers 8:24). “Cursed be he that doeth the work of Jehovah negligently”, Jeremiah 48:10. We must not make it a side line. It is a real thing to addict ourselves to and he failed in that. John Mark had to learn over again and he became an excellent worker. There may have to be second lessons like Peter’s recovery or conversion. We get the word ‘made’ applied to Peter: “I will make you”. It is a question of the Maker taking advantage of the [p. 382] circumstances to work, making the vessel what it is needed for.
Ques Is this something prior to the idea of gift that comes out in the other psalm suggested? Is this moral formation that qualifies for the flow of what comes from Christ in headship?
JT That is what we hope to reach, Ephesian ground. Gift and the ability to serve come from heaven. The Lord Jesus “ascended up above all the heavens”, Ephesians 4:10. We have the exalted character of the service there and verse 8 is a citation from this Psalm 68. So the Lord would help us as we are subject together. What strikes one here is that if one is to be usable, one has to be subject first, to learn from others who are perhaps inferior. Take your orders from a corporal instead of a colonel, so long as he gives you the right ones; we have to be subject and take them and work them out.
HB So Paul in reciting his conversion does not leave out that Ananias said, “Why lingerest thou?”, Acts 22:16.
JT That is so.
SRMcC “Arise and get baptised, ... calling on his name”. Is that the idea of the wash-pot there?
JT Just so. The word is applicable, Ananias spoke about that. “Why lingerest thou?”. Why do you hold back from what humbles you? Baptism would humble a Jew particularly. It meant he was giving up his religion, Judaism.
TS Is the matter of the striving and meeting the Syrian element in the city met by Paul as let down through the wall in a basket at Damascus?
JT Yes, it was a very humiliating thing that it should happen to him. He records it himself and calls God as witness (2 Corinthians 11:31 - 33). It is most important that he did go through such humiliating circumstances, and that at Damascus.
RA Psalm 60 is headed “Michtam of David”, the word means golden; is that a moral quality of David working out as he strove against these Syrians, and in going forth to Goliath? David was ruddy, and of a beautiful countenance.
JT Just so. It refers to the character of the instrument used in the service. It is used several times, beginning in Psalm 16, I think, showing what suggestions there are in the use of the word. We cannot afford to leave out any of these words of the headings. But the vessel had to be usable. It is the language of a victorious warrior, but it is used by the remnant in these circumstances of being cast out, showing that their minds are clear; they are not forgetting old victories and possibly anticipating new ones, in view of the millennium. So, “God hath spoken in his holiness: I will exult”, Psalm 60:6. It is a question of God’s triumph. It is God here, not the Messiah.
HGH Does the “banner” in verse 4 suggest the thought of support in these circumstances?
JT That is the next thing. “Thou hast given a banner to them that fear thee, that it may be displayed because of the truth”. That is the verse that enters into the whole section. Some one, but it is one that fears God, gets a banner.. We may pursue the thought of Paul in this. How faithful he was! He had grace to be faithful to hold to the truth. The epistle to the Galatians perhaps sets out more distinctively than any of the others how he contended for the truth.
Ques “God hath spoken”, would that be in connection with Paul’s experience, his secret relations? How would that come to him, this opening out of the mind of God in regard to striving and acquiring new territory?
JT In Paul’s own case you mean? Well, he laid himself out for things. He went to Damascus; he [p. 384] was led in. He was really blind, but still the work was started and he was found in the house of one called Judas, by the direction of the Lord. The Lord takes the matter on because He is in charge in Saul’s case peculiarly. Paul got the Spirit, of course. There is no possibility of making any headway in a conflict without the Spirit. Paul got the Spirit and then preached in the synagogue, “Jesus that he is the Son of God”, Acts 9:20. That was the point. We might say, Peter should have done that because he was with Jesus, but he does not do it — neither in his first address nor in any subsequent ones that we know of. Paul says, “God ... was pleased to reveal his Son in me, that I may announce him as glad tidings among the nations”, Galatians 1:15,16. So revelations come by the Spirit.
CAM He says, “God, who set me apart even from my mother’s womb, and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me”. Do you think that he was “called” when he was converted?
JT Well, I suppose so; we know in our own souls how much is done at one time, but I think the apostle is reviewing his history to the Galatians. It was a critical time, it was a question of conflict, an effort of the devil to wrench from the Galatian believers the truth of the gospel, to cause them to return to the beggarly elements from whence they had been taken. So the apostle, as it were, girds himself for conflict. Anyone who remembers the epistle will recall how he girded himself as facing the whole matter, and saying, ‘It is a serious matter and all the brethren are with me in it’. It is important to get the brethren with you if it is a real issue. Then he proceeds gradually and steadily to show how he contended and how he was victorious.
Ques “To whom we yielded in subjection not even for an hour”, Galatians 2:5. I was wondering about that hour. How would you view it?
JT “Not ... an hour”, well it is negative. There is no time of yielding. Is not that it?
You mention the idea of time: it comes into this whole inquiry. That is we have territory in mind and time in mind. Time is a great item. It is the scarcest thing we have in the service. We shall find in this section how God is occupied with time so that when we come, for instance to Psalm 65, the whole year is alluded to. It enters into Paul’s service; he did not find time to do all the things he wanted to. It was scarce with him. Psalm 65 is a beautiful tribute to how God uses the year. As it says, “Thou crownest the year with thy goodness, and thy paths drop fatness” (verse 11). That is one passage that enters into this inquiry, how the year, the present time, is “the acceptable year of the Lord”, Luke 4:19. We have the idea of an hour; John uses it and Paul uses it. We have the months too, and we have weeks and we have days, all leading up to the great period of time called the millennium. We shall have to look at that later. I am only referring now to time and how it was used. What a period that will be for God working out His pleasure in men in flesh and blood, not heavenly, not yet changed, and of course if it can be worked out for one thousand years with men in that condition, it can be worked out now. Christians are all men in flesh and blood and God is working in us, therefore time is scarce. We are to redeem it by ample opportunities and not waste any of it, because we will not have another opportunity. If we do not grow now, when shall we grow? Therefore let us be in the habitable part, in rich soil such as a time like this where there is fruitfulness and where the year is finished. He crowns the year with His goodness. Our young people are apt to waste time, to find time on their hands, but no real servant of God finds time on his hands. He has not enough. God is showing us how it is to be used.
[p. 386] He began to use it first Himself, and how much God did on the first, second and third days, indeed the whole six days!
CAM It is remarkable how much comes into the spiritual year, how complete it all is!
JT It came put in Israel. God used the agricultural year and the ecclesiastical year, of course there is the lunar year and that year is in that way usable, and it has to be understood. I am just referring to it now so that we might have it in our minds in the inquiry. So we return to Psalm 60 where we get the territory acquired because it is usable. God would show His ability to take any country, even the whole continent of Asia, but He did not wish to. He has left it, you may say; it is still lying fallow in heathendom, but He has taken America. It was not known in apostolic times as far as we know, but the time came when it was needed and we can thank Him now that He did take it, because it is in view of the present crisis.
AAT This is in keeping with the thought of the Western movement.
JT It is Japheth territory and God has taken it because He needs it provisionally, not because of rebellion against the British.
ANW I think you have mentioned in regard of the East that for the moment God has left it and has it in reserve for use in another day.
JT Quite so. Yes, to use it in a quick time. We have time mentioned in Revelation 12:6,14: “A thousand two hundred and sixty days” and “a time, and times, and half a time”. The latter is simply time abbreviated so as to abbreviate experience. It is to show how experience enters into it. I think this is all very interesting, and the brethren ought to be all in it too because we are in the last days and it is a question of territory, of the testimony; the war is about it but God is saying something and these [p. 387] psalms show that He can take any part of it He wishes. He could look at these items that can extend to any territory. “I will divide Shechem, and mete out the valley of Succoth. Gilead is mine, and Manasseh is mine, and Ephraim is the strength of my head; Judah is my law-giver”. God, as it were, is saying, It is Mine anyway without conflict. “Moab is my wash-pot; upon Edom will I cast my sandal; Philistia, shout aloud because of me”. So God can take this continent, the whole continent of Australia, or any other country or island as He pleases at any time, and we are to learn that and be content under divine shelter. “Be still, and know that I am God”, Psalm 46:10.
JTJr When Paul took Corinth it was a question of time; he served there eighteen months, and then later on three years at Ephesus, and at Rome two years. While these territories are not on the map in that way yet, they are held, are they not?
JT He was there, and while he was there the thing was held; he was two years in Rome as a prisoner, under Caesar.
ABP Would it be right to say, with so many of the young brethren being taken away from their localities, there should be exercise that the territory should not be given up?
JT That is the point; so we should make way for headship, keep the door open for it, not clericalism but headship.
GD “Thou hast given a banner to them that fear thee, that it may be displayed because of the truth” (verse 4). Is truth the essential and underlying thing in the taking of this territory?
JT That is the verse that we have already called attention to. It runs through the whole inquiry, the whole section. “Thou hast given a banner to them that fear thee, that it may be displayed because of the truth”. It is not the person who is trained and [p. 388] who has titles but those who fear God; that thought runs through scripture. Joseph spoke about it.
RWS “God hath spoken in his holiness: I will exult, I will divide Shechem, and mete out the valley of Succoth. Gilead is mine, and Manasseh is mine, and Ephraim is the strength of my head; Judah is my law-giver; Moab is my wash-pot; upon Edom will I cast my sandal; Philistia, shout aloud because of me”. Is there anything distinctive in what God is doing in different territories?
JT Well, He may work it out that way. “Ephraim is the strength of my head” would point to the place Ephraim had in the distribution of the territory. It was Joseph — Ephraim and Manasseh. Ephraim is the chosen one of the two, representing the sovereignty of God.
ANW I think your reference to Moab as being proud and being used as a wash-pot, is a clue to it.
CAM Referring to the matter of headship, a prominent instance of headship is in the case of Jephthah in Judges 11. He came from Gilead. I was wondering whether that would have any connection?
JT It is remarkable that in Jephthah there should be the idea showing that God can take up such a man and develop it in him. Undoubtedly it is in Paul that it is worked out. He goes right through. We have him in Psalm 68:27; we did not read about it; “There is little Benjamin, their ruler; the princes of Judah, their company”. Benjamin had been greatly reduced but he became the ruler, and where could you find it any better exhibited than in Paul, in the epistle to the Corinthians?
CAM The laying hold of headship would include all territory.
JT That is the idea, I think. Tomorrow we shall have the 69th and then the last psalm of this book, which is Solomon’s and then, “The prayers of David the son of Jesse are ended”, a good finish for tomorrow, the first day of the week. But now it is headship, but it is preceded by what we have just been speaking of, the acquiring of territory on military lines. It is how the gospel has acquired territory and how God is working out His thoughts. Although men are maintaining the territory, God says it is His.
Ques When there has been the acquiring of the territory answering to the last verse of Psalm 60, we can be assured that there has been the full entering into the moral issues preceding. When we see territories coming under the glory of the gospel and under headship it means there has been the meeting of moral issues in some one who has brought God in. Is that right?
JT That is very good. This same portion of the psalm (verses 6 - 12) appears later in the last book, showing how the Spirit of God can use the same thing in different circumstances. It appears in Psalm 108 in connection with the subject of the last book which leads up to the millennium, universal praise. Here it is used in a more limited way to lead up to headship in the assembly.
JTJr When the territory is taken I suppose it requires a lot of regulation to set it right, which would come out in the idea of the law-giver and headship. The wash-pot would be an essential thing, taking up things, having everything in order, that morally we are clean all the time.
JT Well, that is all very good. I think we may apply it to territory that we have, for instance this country which, for long enough in my own experience, was under reproach spiritually. A man would be warned not to come to America for he would not get on spiritually. That was true maybe, but it would deny what God can do. Even although it might be true, yet God in due course could do something in a country like this. He did something at Crete. Crete [p. 390] was a small island in the Mediterranean but it was enough to yield the principle that certain territories are affected by local conditions. That is “Cretans are always liars”, Titus 1:12. Well, that could be extended to any country. There is some particular feature, characteristic of every country, that is likely to damage the brethren, and that feature in this country is independence and other such things.
Rem The point is to see that there is entire clearance and self-judgment in our souls so that the Spirit is not hampered. Even though I may say wonderful things in the gospel, if I am lacking in the matter of self-judgment, power is not there.
JT So this matter of the wash-pot means there is something that must be cleaned up. The things that have to be cleaned up are usually specific, that is they develop out of the character of the country in which we may be, or the local town or city. The washing is to take place. Hence it is, “Unless I wash thee, thou hast not part with me”, John 13:8. That is an important thing; I am left out if I am not washed. Then again if one wishes to have fellowship with the brethren, does he wash his robes? “Blessed are they that wash their robes, that they may have right to the tree of life, and that they should go in by the gates into the city”. Revelation 22:14. Well, there is the wash-pot again. “Through the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit”, Titus 3:5. It was all characteristic of the Cretans; they needed washing in a peculiar way, deliverance from the characteristic of the place.
Ques Do you see anything hopeful in America in any particular way right now?
JT Not spiritually. It is just a provisional state of things.
Rem I have heard that you said that church conditions are more or less generally Corinthian in this territory.
[p. 391] JT That is true. Hence the wash-pot was needed. Baptism is brought in there although Paul says, “For Christ has not sent me to baptise” (1 Corinthians 1:17); though he brought it in, he baptised certain persons. They were influential persons. So that he kept the matter in mind. As you are suggesting, the general situation is Corinthian, and hence you hardly have a meeting where Corinthians does not enter into it. Earlier it was Romans 7, but now it is Corinthians.
ABP “The valley of Achor for a door of hope” (Hosea 2:15) would suggest the value of a particular piece of territory, something that is worked out in it to be regulatory and of benefit to the saints.
JT That is the idea of territory. It may suggest a principle. Crete suggests a principle and the valley of Achor suggests a principle; God is going to turn it into hope. It is in that way that I would avoid attaching any special privilege to any territory, because if anything is of God in any territory the thing that is characteristic of that territory has been judged; there is no glory in that.
JWD In regard to this idea of Corinthian conditions, most of our morning meetings, anyway as to light, are clothed by the glory of sonship. Is it hypocrisy — the sense of liberty in the light of sonship?
JT Well, I do not know that I see. Some one said that I had made the remark that this continent was marked by the characteristics of Corinth, but I said once that it was general, that it included all the countries of the world, all the meetings we have. I have been in most parts of the world now and I find this characteristic, the epistle to the Corinthians. You hardly ever miss it in a meeting. It refers to assembly procedure in the main.
JWD You are referring now to the teaching of Corinthians, not to the evil [p. 392] conditions that prevailed in Corinth?
JT That is meant too. The conditions that prevailed in Corinth enter into all the gatherings. It will be constant. We have to keep at it all the time, washing all the time. It is not those who have washed but those who wash, a continuous thing: “Blessed are they that wash”.
JWD I see that matter; but the feeling I have in this is that on the side of privilege and purpose we seem to be getting on so well, with light and liberty and joy on the lines of sonship, moving in heavenly territory. It does not seem quite in keeping with a general Corinthian state amongst us.
JT Perhaps you are taking what I said too literally, but the ministry that God gives indicates the state where it is given. And what I have observed is that there is a constant necessity for bringing in the truth of Corinthians. It is not being laid hold of and acted upon, the truth of fellowship, for instance. There is hardly a meeting you go to where some one is not proposing getting married to some one not in fellowship, and people think nothing of having a radio although they know it is contrary to the truth of the fellowship.
CAM A number of years ago there was a crisis and the thing headed up in England. When you were asked whether you would apply the truth of Corinthians or that of 2 Timothy 2, the wonderful answer you gave was that you would apply both. That was the real thing that caused the victory in the crisis.
JT So it is a question of how you bring the truth in at any given time; I believe the Corinthian epistles are the ones that contain the truth especially applicable because they are on assembly order. The conflict has turned on church order for many years, since, I should say, 1908, involving the Lord’s supper. You find it still. There is more clarification as to [p. 393] it.
ANW I think the remarkable thing about that answer is that one cannot see how rightly there could have been any other answer.
JT Because scripture is scripture.
Ques Do you think in looking at the idea of Corinthian conditions that we may look too much at the grossness of what occurred in the first instance, lawsuits and so on, and forget there was something really that was ecclesiastically worse than that? They were refusing the ministry and the great vessel of the testimony at the time.
JT Yes, the first thing mentioned to be condemned was that they were not of one mind. They were not in unity; divisions among them are mentioned in chapter one of the epistle.
WL I was wondering if you also had in mind that we can never dispense with the wash-pot idea.
JT That has been in mind in what has been said. You feel it comes up at every care meeting. Some places have them once a week and they are needed. You find the wash-pot has to be there every time.
AAT You were speaking of the characteristic of America being independency. Is that feature introduced in any way in the assembly in America?
JT It is seen in America more than anywhere. Of course, Australia has taken on American characteristics, a feature of all the colonies.
JWD Would you say that along with these Corinthian conditions there are those of whom it can be said, Two of the assembly, according to Matthew 18?
JT That is the point, “two of you”. God is maintaining it even if it be only in two.
JTJr “According as ye are unleavened” (1 Corinthians 5:7) should be held in our thoughts at all times.
JT That is another point. The abstract idea is never to be given up. The local position must never [p. 394] be given up. In that chapter which deals with the licentious person, the terrible wickedness there, it says, “According as ye are unleavened”. That is a principle that has to be learned if we are to go on at all. That is to say, the abstract idea is there in the saints, the truth that was set there in the eighteen months of Paul’s service. He laid it down, we are told, “opening and laying down” (Acts 17:3); that was at Thessalonica. So it was continued at Corinth and it took eighteen months to do it, but the truth was laid down in a foundational way. The whole assembly had not apostatised; they had gone on with the truth of the gospel, at least outwardly, and the Holy Spirit was still with them. “Do ye not know that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?” 1 Corinthians 3:16. Therefore the assembly at Corinth was on assembly ground and there was power there to deal with evil.
AHP Does the first verse of Psalm 68 link on with what we have already had in connection with the wash-pot? Is this condition promoted by the bringing in of these features: “Let God arise, let his enemies be scattered, and let them that hate him flee before him”?
JT That is the ground of the psalm. It is a good length, thirty-five verses. It is called a psalm and a song, showing that victory is in it as well as experience. “Wherefore he says, Having ascended up on high, he has led captivity captive, and has given gifts to men” (verse 18 as quoted in Ephesians 4:8). Now we get the word, the divine title, “Jah” here. The brethren will notice it is said in the note to occur ‘43 times from Psalm 68 to 150 and only 7 times elsewhere’. The meaning of it, as far as can be ascertained is, ‘The existing One, objectively’. It can only be ascertained by spiritual persons, and the spiritual person is Mr. Darby, and then even he only conjectured it. It may be only an abbreviation of [p. 395] the title Jehovah, but more likely to be an allusion to God abstractly, if that could be, that is to say if the creature could apprehend Him as apart from all else. And it comes into this section of the book of Psalms, and it is not without interest that it has come out very peculiarly during the past ten years or so amongst us, the idea of God in the abstract, that divine Persons have to be regarded in that way; we cannot penetrate that, but we know it is there. God has to be regarded because of who He is, before He did anything as far as record shows. He has to be regarded as by Himself, so to speak, to be apprehended by Himself, and it appears here. It is used, as has been remarked, forty-three times in the book of Psalms from this psalm onwards. It is used also in the song of Moses in Exodus 15 and in the Song of Songs, but it is especially used in this section of this book, from here to the end.
CAM It is a remarkable thing that after it speaks of the delineation in 1 Timothy 1:16, “But for this reason mercy was shewn me, that in me, the first, Jesus Christ might display the whole long-suffering, for a delineation of those about to believe on him to life eternal”, the next expression is, “Now to the King of the ages, the incorruptible, invisible, only God, honour and glory to the ages of ages. Amen”. It seems remarkable that before we actually leave the present time this is being clarified to the saints.
JT Is it not suggestive that the Lord is leading us into the real truth of the Deity before the assembly leaves here? He is giving it the truth of the Deity, that the truth of sonship is not in abstract Deity; sonship refers to manhood in Christ. Abstract Deity is beyond us. The Lord Himself says, “God is a spirit”, John 4:24. Well, we cannot define that, but it is there to be apprehended and to enter into our worship.
[p. 396] Ques Why does the suggestion of what is rebellious come into such a marvellous setting out of things as the gifts, this wonderful reference to Jah, and so on?
JT Well, it is, to finish up this great matter, in this group of psalms, of how headship is reached. That it is not simply for those who are subject. The Corinthians were not subject. They were converted and had the Spirit, but Paul said he had to wait for their subjection generally, so that he could deal with other wickedness in the assembly. “And having in readiness to avenge all disobedience when your obedience shall have been fulfilled”, 2 Corinthians 10:6.
ANW Does it not also have such an one as Paul in mind, an insolent and overbearing man?
JT Just so, for the rebellious also. It is a general thought, but it is not simply for those who are subdued. There is power in Christ viewed here as having ascended, it is a question of Christ as Man. God is the great theme of the book here but the manhood of Christ is in mind in this. He has ascended there and received gifts in Man. The note says, ‘i.e. as man (Adam), in connection with mankind’. So it is a question of Christ, involving His sonship as Man, and what He is doing for man and how His power is equal to anything that may arise in man. It did not succeed in Judas, nor will it succeed in the man of sin, but nevertheless it is intended for rebellious people. Saul of Tarsus was brought down, and everyone of us has been. Who here would not admit his rebelliousness? and yet headship has wrought to bring him down.
Ques It is like bringing the saints to Numbers 10. I notice the footnote refers to that. The tabernacle had been set up and the encampment around it, and then they begin to move in that chapter towards the inheritance. Is that the [p. 397] idea?
JT Just so. Well, we have just arrived at one of the most important matters, and it is one of the greatest things that have come out in the revival. The leading thought is that Christ is in heaven and the Spirit is on earth, and the gifts are on earth. The headship of Christ is therefore effective everywhere because the Spirit is here in a subjective way, and there is no power that can cope with the Spirit. Those who operate in the assembly ought to bear that in mind that the power is sufficient to deal with anything.
AHP Does verse 13 suggest general characteristics as marking the saints taking on Ephesian character and linking on with verse 18 that you have just read, “Though ye have lain among the sheepfolds, ye shall be as wings of a dove covered with silver, and her feathers with green gold” (verse 13)? Does that suggest the saints being brought into correspondence to Christ?
JT It is a highly spiritual, symbolic reference alluding to the Spirit undoubtedly: “Ye shall be as wings of a dove covered with silver, and her feathers with green gold”, and enters into what we are saying. Verse 18 is the power: “Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts in Man”; that is Man in relation to men, the manhood of Christ. The whole point in these psalms is God, and here, Jah Elohim, the abstract, and yet operational, thought of God. Elohim is God operating. It is God in His supremacy as in the first of Genesis. So now we are in the presence of what God is doing, but doing through Man, as in Christ, but Christ in the supreme place. Hence you have it and the results enlarged upon by the apostle Paul in Ephesians 4:7. Now we are here to carry forward the idea of the usability of the saints; and they are being skilled in it, not simply as wash-pots, but for other things, headship, ruling, and [p. 398] so forth. So the apostle goes on to say, quoting Psalm 68, “Wherefore he says, Having ascended up on high, he has led captivity captive, and has given gifts to men. But that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended into the lower parts of the earth”. That is, he would have us touched with what was involved in the ascension, that is Christ entered into death. And then he says, “He that descended is the same who has also ascended up above all the heavens” — not simply into the heavens, it is above them — “that he might fill all things; and he has given some apostles, and some prophets, and some evangelists, and some shepherds and teachers, for the perfecting of the saints; with a view to the work of the ministry, with a view to the edifying of the body of Christ; until we all arrive at the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, at the full-grown man, at the measure of the stature of the fulness of the Christ”. That is Paul enlarging on Psalm 68 and showing how it works out amongst ourselves for the “work of the ministry”. So we should all be affected and conformed to Christ; that is the end in mind; headship therefore is seen operating.
JTJr Do you think that Joshua staying close to Moses would help in the matter of development of gift in young men and ourselves? He remained in the tent of meeting with Moses a great deal.
JT Very good. Of course the first reference to him is in Exodus 17, where the Holy Spirit is seen as coming in through sufferings, just as we have here; the Lord Jesus going down into the depths. That is the first mention of Joshua, and he is seen in the great conflict at Rephidim. We can readily see how the young brothers surely are in mind, that they can learn something about gift in all their pressure, how the Lord went down to the lowest parts of the earth and how He was exalted, and as up there He is thinking [p. 399] about the saints and the assembly, and about its perfecting. Let them think about the assembly, not only the spiritual welfare but even as to the collections. It will be very helpful if they do. Let them have them in their mind, that they do not forget the collection. It would be very wholesome in their mind. Paul did not forget it. He would have the scattered ones share in the collections; that is, in the glory of Christ in giving.