READING (3)
READING (3)
JT Attention was called yesterday to the down line in chapter 2 and how it leads to the reduction of our size, preparing for expansion on the other side. And although the unleavened bread is not really the subject of the passage, in a way nothing could be more important than that the feast should be kept during the seven days. That is, that in having to say directly to what pertains to Christ in the heavenlies, there is room for expansion, God looks for expansion, because it is a very large place and requires great largeness of mind and affection; but in regard to things here, and what one is or may be in regard of the world, there is a standing necessity to feed on unleavened bread. As remarked in prayer, without the reducing process there is no possibility of apprehending the point of view of this chapter, because it is expansion. And there seems great advantage in that we have given to us in this chapter the exercises of a man like the apostle, not as an apostle, but as a Christian, his inward exercises in regard to Christ and in regard to the calling. He had other exercises which are also a model for us, such as levitical exercises. He is compelled in the epistle to the Corinthians to record his levitical exercises because of their envy and folly, though he would have preferred to have left those for the day of Christ to bring to light. But he is not compelled here, he delights to express his exercises in regard to Christ and the calling.
FHB What you speak of as the reduction had already taken place in the case of the apostle: “What things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ”.
JT The Lord gave him a good start in that way. From Jerusalem he set out as a very great man according to man’s estimate, and would have had a very fine reception in Damascus as the emissary of the high priest, but instead of that he was led in blind, but he opens his eyes, as someone has said, on a brother, a brother in whom the Lord had confidence. And finally he is let down from the wall in a basket, that is reduction. But in order to maintain that reduction we have to keep the feast, and that is by the food we eat. He further went into Arabia, which had a very reducing effect on him.
SH You were referring to the Bridegroom yesterday. It is very interesting that when the Bridegroom is taken from them they fast. We see here a man who in the absence of the Bridegroom is fasting.
JT Quite, while the Bridegroom is present you can eat and drink.
SH Now he is taken from them, then shall they fast.
WHB Is it not important to keep before us the immensity of the revelation which leads one to enter into the assembly?
JT The reduction of the man is a necessity; you cannot stand the reduction without the revelation; the revelation becomes a leverage in the soul.
SH It began with the first word of this chapter; he rejoices in the Lord.
WHB And that is maintained in the soul.
JT I think that the impressions we get of Christ ought to be expanded at the Lord’s supper. There is room for it there, the effect and the intention of it is to expand the heart, but that involves that you feel the littleness of the flesh. It is as they entered Canaan that they had to make sharp knives. It is in the light of the glory of Christ. It is not so easy; it requires severe handling. They had to sharpen the knives; it was the urgency of the thing [p. 110] in the light of the glory; it is urgent that flesh be got rid of, so the Lord told them to make sharp knives, for He knew better than they how difficult the thing was.
FHB The fasting would serve to keep up the reduction.
JT I was going to add that the first day of the week ought to be a sort of beginning with us, and after the Supper the unleavened bread ought to be kept up. As you return to things here there are things which give you a status, and there the unleavened bread is a necessity.
FHB That is practically fasting.
EAP Can you have a fast of unleavened bread?
FHB Well, from a natural point of view it would be fasting, you would not think you had much of a feast if you had only unleavened bread.
JT The difficulty, I think, with most of us is that we do not keep a supply of this bread. It is a very noticeable word with regard to Lot that he had it even in such circumstances as his.
PRM “That righteous man vexed his soul”.
JT That shows that he had it.
Ques Would you say a little as to what unleavened bread is?
JT Sincerity and truth; you are transparent and sincere with everybody. It is food for the soul, a thing man naturally does not feast on; he feasts on insincerity and lust.
JSG Must we not remember that in the feast of unleavened bread, it says, Ye are unleavened? Now fasting is more on the other line in regard to what is legitimate.
JT In fasting you deny yourself what is lawful.
EB In Corinthians is it not more in contrast to leaven; whilst in Philippians it is more what is positive?
JT I did not suggest that the thought was [p. 111] in Philippians exactly, but I suggested it in connection with the down-stooping of Christ.
WJ Did you say that the Lord’s supper helps you to keep up the feast of unleavened bread?
JT I think the Supper is expansion to draw you into Christ’s things. We can all lay aside our personal dignity when we come together; but when you return to your individual position in the world, there the necessity of unleavened bread comes in.
WJ Does the Supper help you thus to take it up?
JT Well, it enlarges your heart, and gives you power to eat the unleavened bread.
EJMcB Would it not be the case that if one is in the good of the unleavened bread you would be ready for enlargement when we come together?
JT It is what you are when the brethren are not looking at you.
THR I think it is very interesting and a most important point that we do not get the circumcision until you have had the positive things; that is, you worship God in the Spirit, the whole man is, so to speak, prostrated before God, and then you have no confidence in the flesh. It does not say that we have no confidence in the flesh and then worship; and I believe it is thoroughly true, that we cannot accept the putting to death of the flesh except in the power of life.
JT It is the “second time” (Joshua 5:2). They were circumcised the second time. In the light of the glory and of the new position, it is not now simply the legal requirement, it is an urgent necessity. The more you are in the light of the new position the more you see the urgency of circumcision.
SH It is the only way the position is maintained, if we have once touched it.
JT The idea of healing comes in, circumcision required healing, they could do nothing till they [p. 112] were made whole. The process is necessarily a trying one; now in the healing you are conformed to the new place; it really is in the apprehension of the resurrection of Christ one is whole, as one has it in one’s soul. He says here, “we are the circumcision”, there is not another. Christianity is really the circumcision.
WHB Besides “the circumcision” there were only dogs and concision.
JT Yes, now.
FHB I suppose that is what he refers to in Colossians 2:11.
JT It is more positive here, because he proceeds to show that there is activity Godward. We “who worship by God’s Spirit”. It is not a ceremonial system of worship. A spiritually circumcised man would utterly repudiate a ceremonial system of worship, it is a worship by the Spirit of God, it shows that the flesh is utterly repudiated as regards our activities Godward.
SH It is very interesting that the circumcision and the covenant are put together in the institution of it; it was the token of the covenant. I suppose if we have not that token in the soul, we do not enter into the truth of the covenant.
HD'AC It is spoken of as the work of Joshua and of Jehovah. It says, “Joshua ... circumcised the children of Israel” (chapter 5:3); and “Jehovah said to Joshua, This day have I rolled away the reproach of Egypt” (verse 9).
JT Anything of the flesh that attaches to a man in the assembly is a reproach.
HD'AC I think it is noteworthy that it was Joshua who circumcised them.
THR When circumcision is first brought in, God puts Abraham on a new platform; he is lifted on to a new platform before God, and then he fell on his face at once and worshipped. Then he [p. 113] gets circumcision which separates him from all the nations around.
JT And another point there, which I think is very essential, is, “I am the Almighty God” (Genesis 17:1). It is the Almighty God which stands over against circumcision. It comes in after the contrivance to bring in something on the line of flesh. Ishmael was a product of the flesh but now the almightiness of God is to be regarded.
THR It is important what we are looking at; they were on new ground in God’s land, and God brought them in by Joshua, and the Ark of the covenant of the Lord of all the earth had gone before them.
JT In that way circumcision makes room for the almightiness of God, so that instead of the flesh, here they worship by the Spirit of God. In the activities of one’s affections Godward the flesh is utterly disregarded. But then it is a question of what you might boast in when you return to what we may call your position in the world.
WJ In that connection you would get “Walk before me, and be thou perfect”.
JT It is perfection that is in view here, and a perfect man in Christianity is one who boasts in Christ Jesus; he has all his five senses in exercise, and he appraises things aright.
THR A perfect man is one who has one object, that is, Christ.
JT If a man is defective in his hearing or any of the other senses he is not perfect. It is by the exercise of our senses that things become manifest, so that if a thing is presented, you appraise it rightly. I think it is in returning to one’s circumstances in the world that the test comes. The two and a half tribes go over the Jordan, and pass for good brethren, good fighters, in the land; but their affections and all their interests were the other side of Jordan.
[p. 114] WJ Does not the Supper teach us on both sides? On the one there is expansion, but if true to the Supper we accept the reduction.
JT I think so. You cannot think of Paul whilst in the third heavens becoming inflated: it was when he came back to his natural position on the earth that the danger would arise.
WJ Do you not think that is where we are tested — in the expansion and all that is so blessed, and then coming out we are taken unawares?
JT So that you make post haste for Gilgal.
WHB It is a great thing that the heart should be prepared to take the sharp knives.
JT It is after the wilderness the tenacity of the flesh comes out; how tenacious it is in clinging to its own rights, how it sticks up for itself.
PRM “Knives of flints” flint is inexorable.
EAP The apostle’s prayer for these saints is that they might judge of, and approve of things that were excellent; not good or better.
JT That is a very fine suggestion.
EAP And you get his idea of excellence, Christ Jesus.
JT You have a good judge here, a man’s senses all exercised; he says, Now if ever there was a man that had a title to confidence in the flesh I am that man, and the sweepingness of the thing; all these things put on to the dunghill. One has to feel how very far away one is. He speaks of things we never had; but here is a man who did have them, everything that a man could have to boast in, and he puts them all on the dungheap. He is speaking of what he had. It is easy for us to apply this to what others had, but here was a man who had these things.
PRM Why does he not include his Roman citizenship?
JT “What things were gain to me”, it [p. 115] was included there: but a spiritual man talks about what is excellent.
THR No one will ever give up things without they are in the truth of the calling. If you have not Christ bringing you into the new ground, you will never mortify the flesh, you must do it in the power of life.
JT Whatever gave Paul an advantage in the world, all was cast on the dungheap.
WJ The apostle had these sensibilities they made him feel what these things were.
JT And then he begins with Christ; it is what Christ is to the heart. He is the beginning of things.
ASL Is not that a very important point? Christ is presented in Colossians as the beginning; Christ Himself, and Christ in resurrection; and that involves removal. We have not begun at all unless we have begun in resurrection.
THR Then again in Colossians 3:3 you have “your life is hid with Christ in God”. You realise where your life is.
JT In beginning with Paul the Lord spoke to him out of heaven. It was such a revelation that he got the idea into his soul, there is a Man in whom all moral worth is. So that he counts these things loss and filth on account of Christ.
THR If you had not Christ, it would be mere monkishness.
JT The thing is to be happy in the denial; you do not want any regrets to follow it.
WHB It is a wonderful thing to see that Man in resurrection. God has a Man in whom all that God wanted was complete and full, all the love of God, all the holiness and majesty, and Paul’s eyes were opened on One in whom God was glorified.
JT Paul’s light of Christ is in heaven. It was out of heaven the light shone, and the end of his aim is, “that I may know him, and the power of his resurrection”; that is, his desire is not simply to know that Christ is in resurrection, but to know the power of His resurrection, to arrive at it from his own side; because you must arrive at it in your soul before you can ascend.
WJ There was an increasing apprehension of the light he had seen.
JRK Would you say that the first five verses give the position, and then what follows how Paul reached it?
JT Yes, but he had not reached it yet. He states definitely that they were the circumcision, they were that. They worshipped by the Spirit of God. The worship of the Father is in spirit and in truth. To be classified as a worshipper is not saying you are a circumcised worshipper. It is a question of the kind of worship; circumcised worshippers worship by the Spirit of God. But later on the apostle speaks of what he had not reached.
JRK But when he says, “not as though I had already attained”, was he not on the road?
JT Yes, on the road surely; but the chapter shows to us what were the exercises of the most spiritual man who had ever been on the earth besides the Lord Jesus, and he had not reached perfection; he was on the road to it. It keeps you constantly on the qui vive. A brother used the expression in prayer, not that there might be an increased appreciation of Christ but an increasing one. If it is increased you have stopped, but it is increasing.
WJ Paul is perfect as to object, but not perfect as to attainment.
JT Quite; perfect as to exercise, but not as to attainment.
WJ You cannot turn away from your glory here until you see your glory there.
THR The glory laid hold of him from the first [p. 117] moment, a glory shining in the face of Jesus. Then the great thought is to reach it in resurrection.
JT The Lord took possession of him.
THR And he coins a word, the out-resurrection; which immediately shows that it was the resurrection of Christ he wanted to attain unto.
DLH I should like to ask, particularly in view of present difficulties, what is to be said as to Paul’s having three times fallen back on his Roman citizenship? One was at Philippi, “Let them come themselves” (Acts 16:37), another on the steps of the castle at Jerusalem; and the third when he appealed to Caesar.
JT Well, there is what may be called in the language of Scripture “the present necessity”. At Corinth there were necessities, certain difficulties confronted the saints; and undoubtedly there is at this moment a great deal of concern as to our course in view of conditions that have arisen, which believers that have gone before have not had to deal with. The antichristian tide has flowed, has risen, and especially in this country; and certainly there is a present necessity arising out of it, and it is a question as to what citizenship one is to take up.
WJ Is it not a question of what measure of light you have? Paul started from this point, but practically we may not have reached it.
DLH But the apostle reached it. Now then the question is, how it comes to pass that a man who had reached it in an exceptional way three times over in the course of his history fell back upon his Roman citizenship. What I have in my mind is the young people who are taken a certain stand, and they are confronted with what Paul did. How is it to be viewed? Was it defective in any sense in the apostle?
JT I would say unhesitatingly, without in any degree saying anything uncomely as to the apostle, that he had [p. 118] undoubtedly dropped.
HD'AC But in this epistle he puts everything right as to the question of citizenship.
JT One of the most damaging things one knows of is to lower the standard, because you cannot maintain yourself equal to it. Now, though you cannot maintain yourself up to it you must not lower the standard.
THR It is important in every way to see that you belong to another country.
JT Quite. I believe nationalism has almost entirely obliterated the testimony on the Continent. They are so national. The house of God is a wider idea; it is universal.
HD'AC That was a good word from saints abroad, saying though the nations are at war brethren are at peace.
JT Very happy if it is so.
Rem As a natural man Paul was born a Roman citizen, and he was that when he wrote.
FHB But do you take account of yourself as a natural man or a spiritual man?
EJMcB You pay your taxes because you desire to conform to the laws of the country where you reside.
HD'AC The Lord said to Paul at the time of his conversion, “taking thee out from among the people, and the nations” (Acts 26:17). That was never to be forgotten by him.
JSG Unless in my own soul I have apprehended that the Lord has taken me out, so that I do not belong to the system that I am surrounded with, I am sure to make a mistake right through.
THR Yours is only a tent, you are not a dweller here.
HD'AC It ought not to surprise the world when the saints go up on high, they ought to say, “Well, they never did belong to us”.
JSG When you pay your taxes you do it as serving God.
JT It is very striking as regards the young. Take Hebrews 11, Abraham is the father of all the believers, and he shows us in his manner of life what a believer should be. It says, he was a stranger in the land, and dwelt in tents, with Isaac and Jacob; in that way he brought before them the idea of a stranger and a pilgrim.
SH We have had the altar, and now we are coming to the tent. It is a question how deep are the tent pegs. In starting from the standpoint of circumcision, on the negative side of it the reproach of Egypt is rolled away; have we felt it a reproach? And are we going to take it up again?
ASL One has heard you say, Mr. C., that the reproach of Egypt is all that I ever was as a man in the flesh.
GWW Abraham would not receive a place to bury his dead, he would buy it.
JT What I was remarking about lowering the standard is, I think, of supreme importance. We are apt to accommodate the standard to our state, and that is a most serious thing. It is very like the teaching of the doctrine of Balaam, it leads to that. Christendom is really the product of accommodating the standard to the state, so that it becomes ultimately the legalising of evil.
ER You hear the expression used, it is a question of the light you have.
JT Well, there is something in this, that one has to act according to one’s own faith.
HD'AC Jeremiah sought the protection of Zedekiah; it helped him for a moment, but the king soon failed him, and he got into a worse condition, into the dungeon and the mire; and but for Ebedmelech, a black man, he would have [p. 120] perished.
JT Now the end of the chapter shows us what our citizenship is, but how advantageous to have the exercises of a spiritual man! And then he turns back to call attention to the kind of walk that marked him, because he is a model, so that it would be well for a Christian to ask what would Paul do now, not what he did at Jerusalem, or at Philippi, but what would he do now.
ER What is the standard?
JT You have it here: “Fix your eyes on those walking thus as you have us for a model”. This suggests that we act as he did. Paul had the light of the assembly and the calling long before this, but it had to be wrought out in him. This chapter supposes that all that process had been gone through, and he has the light in his soul, so that in that way he is a model for us.
FHB As he says to Timothy, “thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life”.
JSG I suppose we must bear in mind that the standard is not my apprehension of the light, but the will of God.
JT Ignorance of the laws of a country does not excuse you for breaking them.
JSG I think many are hindered because they, say, Have I faith? Have I love? But the question is, What is the will of God?
JT The Jewish remnant put us to shame, because they will not have the beast’s name, they will only have the Father’s name.
ER But what would you say is our light?
JT Our light is Paul’s doctrine and example. “Arise, shine; for thy light is come”
(Isaiah 60:1). It would be a poor thing in the future if we do not afford some light to the remnant; if we have not set them an example.
THR There is another thing besides faith and light, do not lag behind [p. 121] your conscience.
FHB It is important that the conscience should be an enlightened conscience.
ST It all comes back to what Mr. T. started with, where have we been, which side of Jordan, and what have you seen, and what have you heard?
HD'AC It does not appear that there will be any mercy shown to anyone who receives the mark of the beast; he is to drink the wrath of God (Revelation 14:10). We are getting rather near to that line of things.
JT I think God is giving us a taste of it. No doubt Israel’s light will come through the assembly; and it is a very poor thing as in similar circumstances now, only in a modified degree, if we cannot set them some example.
WJ Do you not think that the position applies to us in many ways?
JT I was only thinking of the apostle’s expression, “the present necessity”; only we ought to be occupied with the general scope of the truth. There is particular pressure at the moment.
WJ The difficulty lies in this, that there are so few models. Mr. R. spoke about his young days this morning, that there were models; they were not holding truth in the abstract.
JT That is coming to the point, I am sure.
WJ We have to look at things all round.
JT We have it here, “Ye have us for a model”. But where are the others who walked thus?
SH Then, I suppose, we have to look at the thing in principle, how it applies to the whole company.
HD'AC How far does “Render to Caesar” go?
JT The question now is whether you are Caesar’s. I think it is very simple that I am not Caesar’s, I am Christ’s. Caesar may take my property, but he cannot [p. 122] take me.
PRM Romans 13:7 shows how far it goes. “Render therefore to all their dues”, tribute, custom, fear, honour.
JT In chapter 12 it is, what have you done with your body? You cannot give it away, it is God’s; you have given it to God.
SH I think that distinction will help us. He can take my property; and the Lord admitted that claim when He was here.
HD'AC Is there not a passage where the Jews speak of their bodies as under the dominion of kings?
SH That is in Nehemiah 9:37, but they were captives.
EAP But on the other hand, Joseph went to Pilate to beg the body of Jesus.
Ques In what way are we to obey the powers that be?
PRM Tribute, custom, fear, honour.
JT Government is good in itself, and you respect it.
SH Would not the attitude of a sojourner help us?
JSG Does it not make it very simple if we take Scripture? We are brought into God’s kingdom, and I cannot do anything that violates the principles of that kingdom.
EJMcB I think if one did one’s duty one would give one’s body to God as a living sacrifice.
SH And that intelligently.
EJMcB And then you do not get wisdom and light from the Lord for circumstances like a judge has a book; you get light as occasion arises.
JT I think that is wise, because there is a good deal of attempt to meet circumstances halfway.
ASL At the present moment the position is perfectly simple.
JT So that what we are saying now is in view of a position which we may never have to face. As the Lord says, “Sufficient to the day is its own evil” (Matthew 6:34); you are not to prepare for difficulties which have not arisen. Still, if the Lord allows an exercise, it is important that we should get the good of it.
GWW It is important that we should get the principles.
SH And I think that is the importance of the moment, to ascertain the principles that are to govern God’s house.
EAP I was thinking of the principles which are necessary to govern us. There is a kind of settled idea that I am not ready until I have more light and more power, but in obedience you get the power.
JT As we had it yesterday, “it is God who works in you both the willing and the working” (chapter 2:13), if the disposition is there.
DLH Then it is of great importance that we should know what the divine principles are upon which we are to act.
JT I think that what has been remarked as regards the body is very helpful. One’s body is not one’s own, it is for the Lord, but it is under one’s own hand. I think in this passage the body is in view, “Who shall transform our body of humiliation”, so that the body becomes exceedingly important as to how you hold it.
PRM And God will make men to acknowledge it. I do not think anything can be more encouraging that Nebuchadnezzar’s testimony in Daniel 3:28. The body is for the Lord.
SH “Let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good” (Ephesians 4:28).
JT To “have to give to him that needeth”.
SH But “the thing which is good”.
JT We are exercised that there should be a right standard.
WHB And it is a great thing to have a conscience exercised under that [p. 124] standard.
JT If we were to make the standard a test of fellowship, there would hardly be anyone in fellowship. Some of us were saying today that if Caleb and Joshua had made their light a standard of fellowship they would have had to put everyone in Israel out of fellowship. It calls for patience. You must go on with people so long as they are not apostate. And when I say apostate, I have in mind that the deliberate refusal of any truth is apostasy. Well, our brethren are not apostate.