HEADSHIP (2)
HEADSHIP (2)
GN Your thought was to connect this chapter with Luke 24?
JT Yes; it gives the other side, the normal side. In it we have the headship of Christ more positively presented, as connected with the heavenly position and Christ’s ascension. It presents to us light, and guidance from Christ ascended. I suggested that we should read the earlier part of the chapter, as it furnishes us with degrees of appreciation of Christ, in order to bring into greater relief the excess of affection in Mary, showing how she exceeded all the others. It is to be remembered that although we may not be far away in our souls, yet, whilst having light and believing, we may miss the gain of headship. Peter and John are examples of this: they loved the Lord, and ran to the sepulchre, but they were content with seeing an empty sepulchre, and did not go beyond that; they went home from the grave of Christ. We ought to go beyond the grave of Christ. It is wonderful that we should be privileged to look into His grave, or to enter it; the two disciples did both, but they returned home afterwards, and thus missed the gain of Christ risen, and the light He was prepared to give. Mary corresponds with the Ephesian side of the truth. She loved the Lord, and would not be content with less than the Lord Himself. It was said in Luke 24:24, “him they saw not”. We often go away like that from meetings; there may be a good deal of light and edification, but Him we “see not”. In missing that we miss the gain of His headship.
GN Affection is never satisfied till one is in touch with [p. 309] the Person.
RD Mary recognised the Lord and the company in the upper room.
JT Yes she recognised the Lord when He called her by name.
JF What do you mean by saying that souls are content with an open sepulchre?
JT Peter and John “saw and believed”, but “him they saw not”. They believed He was risen, but they missed Himself. It illustrates how things are pretty much amongst the Lord’s people. They have the light of resurrection and all that goes with that. Paul in Romans 4:25 teaches us that Christ was “raised again for our justification”. We shall be raised too, but we have to go to Colossians for the thought of “with him”. You do get with in Romans as regards baptism, but if you stop there you do not get “risen with Christ”. Peter and John were in association with Christ so far, as in the sepulchre, but they did not reach Him in resurrection, for they went home. The moral thought is that you are “buried with him”; the principle of association begins in the grave, but it goes on to resurrection, risen with Him, and then quickened with Him.
GN Is that the way baptism is presented in Romans and in Colossians?
JT Colossians gives the full thought. Romans simply takes you out of Egypt into the wilderness, buried, but not risen; whereas Colossians overlooks the wilderness, and goes on to say, “in which ye have been also raised with him” (chapter 2:12). The Red Sea and the Jordan coalesce in Colossians. It is out of Egypt into Canaan in Colossians; but the moral thought is with, “with Christ”. Now Peter and John necessarily missed that, for the reason that they did not see Him; He was not there; whereas Mary lingered at the spot, and saw Him. In her mind the idea of with was in the garden, but the [p. 310] Lord would not have it there. He says, “Touch me not”. The idea of with goes on to heaven.
WS Would going into the grave be different from looking in?
JT I think there is a difference. In going in you disappear altogether. Baptism is burial. The idea of it is, the man disappears, he goes out of sight. In 2 Kings 13:20, it is said, that the Moabites invaded the land at the beginning of the year, and the people were in the act of burying a man. Elisha had died, but they were not burying him; they were burying a man; it does not say who it was, but as they were doing it, a band of men came and “they cast the man into the sepulchre of Elisha; and when the man was let down and touched the bones of Elisha, he revived and stood upon his feet”. Now, it seems to me that that is a crucial point in our histories, the burial of the man. A party arises, a band of Moabites; they are proud people, and invade the land. We often see such invasions. What meets that is that saints are in the attitude of burying the man. You do not meet a party by a party; the man that is in the way has to be buried. There is a man in the way, and that is yourself.
AN How do we bury the man?
JT Of course one cannot bury oneself, but there is one exercise that corresponds to it. Mortifying your members which are on the earth is the answering responsibility of being buried and risen with Christ. In Paul’s ministry to the Corinthians he insists that he had announced the gospel to them, that “Christ died for our sins, ... and that he was buried; and that he was raised the third day” (1 Corinthians 15:3,4). “He was buried”; there is a moral thought in that. Burial must take place; not only death, but burial. One has the sense that one would rather disappear wholly from view. What met the band of men in 2 Kings, you might say, was a risen man; he “stood on his feet”.
AN Paul says, “the weapons of our warfare are not carnal” (2 Corinthians 10:4). Would this answer to it? All the principles by which a fleshly conflict could be carried on were put aside.
JT Yes. “Risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead” (Colossians 2:12). That is not the arm of flesh. The man stands on his feet. The Moabites have to contend with him. If you want to experience life-giving virtue it is through the grave of the prophet. Of course I speak of all this as typical, typically it is the grave of Christ.
AN If you want to go on to the sphere of headship, it is only by leaving the man (yourself) behind.
JT Mary may be regarded as having reached “risen with Christ”. She is first seen as seeking Him. She would gladly have shared His tomb, like Ruth who said “Where thou diest will I die, and there will I be buried” (Ruth 1:17). But instead of sharing His tomb, Mary is to share His company among the saints, to know Him risen. But that was not in the garden. She takes Him to be the gardener, a great mistake! He was the gardener in one sense, and will yet be, but not then. He says, “Touch me not, for I am not yet ascended to my Father”.
JS Does ascension go beyond the garden? What is the thought of the garden?
JT It might be England, or any spot specially favoured by God in His government. Christ is not in any garden now. Faith in Christ Jesus and love to all the saints takes one out of any such garden now.
JS The tendency would be to bring in Christ here to make things better.
JT Yes; especially connecting Him with things here. In the future Israel will be the garden of God.
PL “In the garden was a sepulchre”; the death of Christ changed [p. 312] everything.
JT The garden alludes to any special spot on earth. It began with Eden. A garden with a sepulchre is incongruous. Adam was driven out of the garden; he did not die in it. It is a terrible reflection that all that is left now, for Christ sent Mary out of it, and He Himself left it. He is ascending to the Father, so the thought is not tilling a garden now; but He is supreme in the universe. He is Head over all things to the assembly. And however little Mary may have understood it, she was to have her part in it.
Rem Israel’s part will yet be with the Lord in the garden, but the assembly will have part with Him in His place as supreme over the universe.
JT Yes. How John 20 would deliver us, if we accept it, from nationalism!
JS There is a danger of corruption setting in, in anything short of full assembly position.
CAP The sepulchre was empty.
JT The sepulchre of Christ was there, and that desolates everything for the Christian.
RD Does that produce an orphan spirit?
JT Yes. “He is not there”. All is desolate in the garden now.
RD What we see in Mary would answer to that.
JT She represents the desolation, and the Lord reveals Himself to her, but there is no association there. “Touch me not”. The renewal of their links with Him would be in the company.
CAP The message to Mary would give the thought of a new position and new relationship.
GM Is the woman brought in to show that spiritual state is necessary?
JT The feminine side usually indicates the subjective side of things. Peter and John represent the male side. I doubt not they had more light than Mary, but it did not hold them. Her affection held [p. 313] her, hence the importance of affection. It secures us though we may be deficient in intelligence.
AN The way to the sphere of headship is where the affections go after Christ.
RD Has Luke 24 more to do with the mind than with the affections? Is it mind there and affection here?
JT Yes. Love capacitates us for the message. Mary is sent out of the garden to the company. It is all designed by the Spirit to emphasise, on the one hand, the great importance of love for Christ, and on the other, the greatness of His brethren to Him. They are a class, and have to be distinguished from “my brethren” in Matthew 12, Mark 3 and Luke 8. In 1 John 3:14 we get the expression, “because we love the brethren”; there is only one class of brethren really, and the article indicates that there is only one “the brethren”. In Matthew what marks them is, that they do the will of God. In Mark 3:34, they are sitting in a circle around Christ. The Lord is discoursing, and they are sitting around Him, and it is said, “he looked around in a circuit”. It is the best expression to describe a circle. They are quietly listening to Christ, and He says, “Behold my mother and my brethren”. Luke’s view is that they “hear the word of God and do it” (chapter 8:31). They do the word. Luke does not point them out; Matthew does, and Mark does. Luke speaks in the abstract: “these which hear the word of God and do it”. But the divine thought holds good in Luke. It is a question of our coming up to the divine thought. In Mark we get hearing, but the point of doing does not come in, as they are simply listening.
CAP How do you distinguish between those three gospels and John 20?
JT In John they are believers; they took in all the light available. A believer in John’s gospel does [p. 314] not take in a partial measure of light; he takes in all the light presented. It is said, “they saw and believed”. It evidenced the fact that they believed Christ was risen; that was the utmost limit of the light they had at that moment.
GN Believing, in John’s gospel, is characteristic.
CAP How do you understand verse 9, “as yet they knew not the Scripture that he must rise from the dead”? The previous verse says “they saw and believed”.
JT Up to this time they had not understood that Scripture, I think; but now they did. They had looked into the sepulchre. The sepulchre afforded light for them. They took account of all the circumstances in connection with the tomb.
PL One cannot take that light home exactly. That light is for the assembly.
JT That is where the two disciples missed it.
RD How do you distinguish between “the brethren” and “My brethren”?
JT “The brethren” refers to the same class as “My brethren”, but the former expression indicates their character, what they were as formed by the influence and teaching of Christ. The designation is based on certain traits in the other gospels; whereas “my brethren” in John 20 gives their dignity. It suggests to us the counsels of the Father and the Son.
TRD I thought so, and it anticipates the new relationship.
JT It gives them a status, and qualifies them for the new position. The Lord sent the message so that they might be ennobled, as it were, qualified to receive Him from on high, for the message conveys that He was ascending.
Ques Would it cover Ephesian ground?
JT Yes, it corresponds with Ephesians.
CAP The Lord had not actually ascended.
JT No, but He says, “I ascend”. The question of time does not come in. The ascending One sends the message.
GN Why is the message communicated to a woman?
JT It is characteristic of John. He makes a point of passing by the official class, as if to show that if it were not available the Lord could proceed with His work without it. Chapter 4 illustrates this. The disciples had gone to buy bread and the Lord is left alone at the well; but though they were absent the Lord’s work proceeds. In John 20 the woman takes the message to the assembly, and in chapter 4 the woman goes to the city with testimony of Christ. In both cases the Lord honours the woman.
GN Love is the only thing of account in the assembly.
JT Yes, it is love that the Lord honours.
AN A new situation had arisen, as Christ was no longer where He had been, and the question is, Are there any prepared to adjust themselves in relation to the new position? Light comes in for such as are prepared. It is not a question of what Christ has done merely, but of affection for Christ. You adjust your position in relation to Him, and light follows.
JT Mary was in keeping with the light. She was at the sepulchre. She had no light, beyond that, but she was there. So if we go on these lines, we shall get light. A manifestation involves a fresh feature of Christ. Compare Mary’s contribution with that of the two who went to Emmaus. They did bring a contribution to the company, but Mary’s was much greater, enormously greater.
JF “The Lord is risen indeed!”
JT The company said that. The two related what had taken place by the way, but that was not [p. 316] new. It was wonderful to have the unfolding, but it was not new. The Lord had been made known to them in the breaking of bread but Mary brings in the heavenly light, the light of the heavenly position. That was a marvellous contribution to the company.
RD It illustrates the range of all that comes in under Christ as head.
JT Yes, the message indicates that.
RG Any gain communicated to an individual is for the company.
JT Yes, and you would like to be a good contributor. The Lord says, “Go to my brethren and say unto them, I ascend to my Father and your Father”. We see the position He is taking up. In Ephesians He is represented as having passed beyond all heavens; that is, Ephesians shows the extent of the elevation. Here it is rather the Person to whom He has ascended, indicating relationship; and from that point He influences all creation. The word ascend is of importance in this chapter. In chapter 13 it is go, but here it is ascend, pointing to elevation. It is significant.
GN Is it more the thought of association than relationship?
R.G. Is it sonship?
JT That is inferred, though John does not use the word, except once in the book of Revelation.
RG It gives the highest character of relationship with Christ, “my brethren”.
JT That is the point emphasised here.
RG Is it the idea of dignity?
JT Yes, that is the thought. It is not so much what we are to God, but what we are to Christ.
PL That leaves room for headship.
JT “Thine they were, and thou gayest them me” (John 17:6). It is what the company was to Him.
PL He takes us to the Father.
JT Paul’s thought is to bring in [p. 317] man for God;
man presented to God, and glory thus secured for God eternally. John is engaged in bringing God to man, but he gives us here what is unique, a company great enough to be Christ’s associates. After the message is delivered, the Lord proceeds to visit them, and breathes on them. It signifies not merely the gift of the Spirit, but the Spirit of the heavenly Man, so that the company is to be marked by what is heavenly. In principle the Lord came in from heaven so that the One who breathes on them is the heavenly Man, imbued with a heavenly Spirit. That is the spirit in which we are to go out into the world. “As the Father hath sent me, even so send I you:” it is the heavenly spirit on earth.
AN You draw a distinction between the Lord going to the Father in John 13 and here where He says, “I ascend”. The thought of ascension is elevation, is it not? You go to a new place.
JT Yes; and He breathes into them the Spirit of that place. It is significant. The assembly is heavenly and comes out of heaven.
CAP This is not the same as anointing.
JT The anointing was for the head. It is upon you, it is external; you are not anointed inside, it is outside; but think of the Lord breathing into the company! The assembly is heavenly, though here on earth in testimony; that is simply provisional. She is an exotic at all times, in a foreign land; she does not grow here, so to speak; she receives her supplies from heaven, and will return there.
PL “Rooted and grounded in love” (Ephesians 3:17).
WS Exponents of a heavenly sphere before we go there.
JT Not only do we enjoy the privileges of this new sphere, but all is to come out in the way of testimony on earth, so it says after He breathed on them, “Whose soever sins ye remit, [p. 318] they are remitted unto them; whose soever sins ye retain they are retained”.
GN Thomas did not share in the breathing in this way. It would show that the spirit of the heavenly Man was unique to the assembly.
Ques Does headship go beyond “my brethren”?
JT The brethren get the gain of the wisdom of the Head. In receiving of His Spirit there is a means of communication.
Ques Do we get in this chapter what is suggestive of both Colossians and Ephesians?
JT Yes. Colossians, of course, is a corrective epistle; the point being, that Christ should be in the hearts, that the saints should not admit anything additional to Christ. Colossians shows that you need nothing outside of Christ. The Lord came into the circle in John 20. If you had introduced a philosopher at that moment, what place would there have been for him? None. He would have been regarded as an intruder, as utterly unable to contribute anything to that company. Christ was sufficient; He was able to supply all that was needed.
JS The message was not only that they should be His brethren, but that they were to stand in His relationship to His Father.
JT They were never addressed in that way before.
PL They had answered to Colossians, the door was shut for fear of the Jews.
JS The grain of wheat brings to light the brethren. Does this not go beyond the main subject matter of John’s gospel?
JT Yes, but it is essential in order to complete the subject. John’s ministry was to the circumcision in a way, and many expressions in his writings refer to the Jews, but believing Jews. This chapter is [p. 319] essential to his subject, as it gives the heavenly position and relationship of the assembly, qualifying us to come out for Christ on earth.
JS It gives you the things rather than their names.
JT Yes, it is more important to get the thing than the name.
AN We get in this chapter the sphere He leads them to, and their coming out bearing the influence of that sphere.
JT He breathes on them to imbue them with that Spirit.
PL In Revelation, the city comes out in the dignity and liberty of the heavenly position.
WS This is the way of true Christian testimony.
JT Like the sheet in Acts 10, which came down and went up thrice. Not only is man’s need met, but what is heavenly is far in excess of the need, and thus Ephesians is suggested. Ephesians always indicates excess far beyond the need being met — it gives the infiniteness of supply. Heaven is pre-eminent not in an arbitrary way, but on account of its excellence.
RD So it provides a full answer to the shortage here.
GN The Lord says, “Blessed are they that have not seen and yet have believed”.
JT That is an encouragement for ourselves. Our faith is based on the testimony. There is a peculiar blessedness attached to the faith of the saints now, in contrast to the Jews in the future, who believe only when they see.