HOW UNITY IN MINISTRY IS SECURED

HOW UNITY IN MINISTRY IS SECURED

Mark 3:13 - 15; Acts 1:4 - 5; 1 Samuel 19:19 - 24; John 16:13,14

JT A simple thought is in mind but one of great importance if there is to be unity, especially unity in the ministry which the Lord gives. The thought is that those who minister are seen as learning together from Christ, coming under His sway and influence together. First in Mark, which is the Gospel for ministers particularly, we are told that the Lord went up into the mountain and called “whom he himself would, and they went to him. And he appointed twelve that they might be with him, and that he might send them to preach, and to have power to heal diseases, and to cast out demons”. The great general thought in mind is there, the Lord’s sovereign selection, but made as on the mountain, that is in moral elevation. Then in Acts 1 the command is given as He was assembled with them, pointing to the need of the Spirit, as He says, “Being assembled with them, commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to await the promise of the Father, which [said he] ye have heard of me. For John indeed baptised with water, but ye shall be baptised with the Holy Spirit after now not many days”, implying in a moral way that their service was to be in the power of the Spirit, not in natural power.

Then in Samuel, in the well-known passage read, the Lord is seen in type in presidency, seen as presiding over the prophets, not instructing them, but prophesying is actually going on, and the effect is to overcome all opposition to Himself in type, that is, all opposition to David is overcome by the sight of this service carried on and the power of it. Saul ^[p. 439] sent messengers to take David and they saw a company of prophets prophesying and Samuel standing as president over them. The full result is seen there as to its public effect, being the service of God from the standpoint of public prophetic ministry. John shows in the verses read that the Spirit “shall guide you into all the truth”. On an occasion like this, one and another speaks but the Spirit alone guides us so that the truth is reached, the object being to guide us into all the truth. This will prevent such a thing as sectarianism, which is usually built up on truth in a partial way.

CHH Is the moral elevation in Mark really a fundamental feature in service?

JT I think it is, as lifting us out of man’s realm, that is the world in its religious aspect. Theology and all the education for the service of God nominally is now on the level of ordinary instruction, just a branch of ordinary education. A man goes through a curriculum for the ministry, as it is called, as for medicine or any other science; in fact, theology is treated as a science, bringing it down to man’s level, whereas the Lord lifts it up to the heavenly platform, a mountain usually denoting that which is above what is current in the world. That is the first point attention is to be called to. He goes up into the mountain, that is a mountain in contrast to the plain; the article indicates that it is a definite thought in the Lord’s mind.

JRF Would you say that going up involves considerable exercise?

JT That is another thing; that is obedience, and would mean not only physical but also spiritual exercise.

EBMcC Would you say all are in this who have heard the voice and have been called by Him? That is, they are called to service, or is it some particular company here that is in view?

JT ^[p. 440] We are not told how many He called, only how many He appointed. It says, “He calls whom he himself would, and they went to him. And he appointed twelve that they might be with him, and that he might send them to preach”. That is the next thing, the sovereign call and the sovereign selection or appointment, and then that the appointed ones should be with Him. That is a very important part of the matter.

CFI Would that be where they would get qualified for service?

JT Being with the Lord we can know His influence. Being with Him is a point of importance; we need to be with each other, too, but that is not the point here, but to be with Him in these circumstances. All the facts mentioned enter into the matter, but you are with the One who calls sovereignly and makes sovereign appointments and would have us in His company.

CHH It says, “They went to him”. Is that important too?

JT Quite so, not simply that they went up but that they went to Him. They might have gone up and looked around, as many do, on an elevation, at the landscape or the scenery, but they went to Him, which is another matter altogether. He is occupied with another world.

EWC In speaking of being together with the Lord, is that where you are focusing our attention, upon the saints in assembly?

JT That is the next thing, as we are told by Luke, “Being assembled together with them”.

WHW Would this be the normal result of the gospel being rightly understood? We would apprehend in our souls that the gospel does not in any way fit us for the world here but is to fit us to be with the ^[p. 441] Lord.

JT If you widen it out that way, but we are dealing with ministers. What you say is true, but we are dealing with persons whom the Lord fits specially to minister. How careful He is as to His position! In Luke, when it is a question of the gospel, He comes down on to the plain, that is, He comes down to where men are, but in ministry He goes up, a question of the exercise of prophets to minister.

CHH Does there not appear to be discrimination in the selection for service?

JT Very great discrimination: “Whom he himself would”. That is the point in the call, and then the appointment is a further discriminating thought. He appointed twelve, that is definite, an administrative thought. The word “appointment” points to administration.

CFI What enters into this matter of sovereign selection — is it something in the vessel?

JT Quite so. If God is going to take one up for the greatest work ever contemplated, the promulgation of the testimony in this world, He certainly has been thinking of him long before he existed. Even Cyrus was thought of long before he was born. Paul says he was separated from his infancy, but God goes a long way back; in fact, He always has had us in His mind in view of these things. God being God is infinite, and He ordains conditions and circumstances for such persons as He will use before He calls them at all. They would be external circumstances, such as parentage, grand-parentage, great grand-parentage, nationality, all these things are in the mind of God. Nothing is accidental so that He has the kind of person He wants. The vessel is to be regarded by itself, and then the moral side affecting it, but the vessel as a creation of God has to be regarded by itself, his capacities, abilities,

^[p. 442] faculties, as well as his external circumstances, then how God affects him morally.

FJF Would you go as far as the point of ascension, so that those who minister should have the full light of His present position?

JT That is what comes out in the gospel of Luke, and in the gospel of Mark, too, also in the Acts. They are witnesses of His resurrection but they are with Him. Acts 1 contemplates the forty days in which He was with them as risen. “Being assembled with them” doubtless alludes to what Luke speaks of in more detail in his last chapter, so that they get the instructions needed, particularly as to the Spirit instead of His companionship and what He taught them. They must not attempt to serve without the Holy Spirit and that is one of the most important things to take note of, that service must be in the power of the Spirit and not be mere human training.

JRF That would involve great dependence.

JT That is the point He makes as assembled with them, as it is a fresh position. In assembly with Him was to involve His peculiar influence: “Being assembled with them, commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to await the promise of the Father”. He brings the Father into it on the line of promise.

ESH Would the Spirit involve our merging assembly-wise?

JT In this way we are told: “To whom also he presented himself living, after he had suffered, with many proofs; being seen by them during forty days, and speaking of the things which concern the kingdom of God; and, being assembled with them, commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to await the promise of the Father, which [said he] ye have heard of me. For John indeed baptised with water, but ye shall be baptised with the Holy Spirit after now not many days”, Acts 1:^[p. 443] 3 - 5.

EBMcC The scripture in Mark would make it clear that they must first be with Him that He might send them forth. They would drink of His Spirit, and they must have the Holy Spirit.

JT They would have His influence and commandments in that peculiar setting. It was an assembly matter which is altogether ignored in popular ordinations of ministers and it is given in the strictest and most accurate way and stressed too in the gospel and in the Acts and the Epistles.

FW Is that to make us understand the true power of the minister, that the source is divine and, therefore, authoritative. The previous incident in Mark refers to unclean spirits falling down and crying, “Thou art the Son of God”. Mark 3:11. I was thinking of what is said here, that the twelve were appointed that they might be with the Lord and that He might send them out to preach, so that all would proceed from Him. The passage in the Acts recognizes the power of the Spirit.

JT It is all beautifully linked together. The preposition used in Acts 1:5 is a preposition of power and means that the baptism is in real power, no mere ready-made thing as we often regard it, but in power. “Ye shall be baptised with the Holy Spirit after now not many days”. It is a question of time and days, but not many. So that they would look for a real thing, power coming upon them.

LDM Would the recognition of divine appointment and selection help those who serve? They would be with God as to what He was doing. Gifts are set in the assembly sovereignly by God (1 Corinthians 12:28).

JT Those who serve ought to be able to recognise gift in others and make way for it. The passage you refer to is the first thought of God setting gifts in the, assembly; they are for His own use. The Lord had been much concerned, as these passages show,

^[p. 444] that there should be unity amongst them, that they should be one. They were to have a fellowship. John says, “Our fellowship is indeed with the Father and with His Son, Jesus Christ”, 1 John 1:3 meaning the apostles’, and the saints were to have fellowship with them. That cannot be so now, of course. Ministering brothers have not a fellowship of their own, but what John says about the apostles helps as showing the distinctive place that ministers have in the mind of God and how there should be unity in their ministry.

CHH Do we see that exemplified in Peter: “According as our beloved brother Paul also has written to you according to the wisdom given to him, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things”, 2 Peter 3:15,16?

JT Peter came to that at the end. One of the best things he says as he is about to put off his tabernacle is that he was thoroughly with Paul regarding his writings of scripture.

FW Is your thought to help us to rise to think of the ministry above what is expository in regard of the scriptures, and take account of the source from which it comes so that it will have power in our souls?

JT That is very good. All these scriptures read would bear this out. Everything issues from Christ. He makes the calls, He chooses the position from which He calls and to which He calls, and those called go to Him there. He makes the appointment “that they might be with him, and that he might send them to preach, and to have power to heal diseases, and to cast out demons”. There are three things: preaching, power for healing diseases and casting out demons. What a great matter it is and how needful it is to follow the directions given here!

SHB Is the call and appointment something apart from the exercises of the person called and appointed.

^[p. 445] I was thinking as to why Judas was called and appointed.

JT Another matter comes up there. That involves the fulfilment of scripture and another line of thought enters into it. It comes into the category of why God allows sin at all. We have to deal with what is. Judas was selected, in fact, was used, and there is no doubt he had power, yet he failed. At least, I suppose the Lord’s remark in John 13 would mean he had power, as he represented Him so far: “He who receives whomsoever I shall send receives me” John 13:20.

FJF Paul was very careful as to what he did.

JT Just so, and that is said by an apostle. This opens up the line of thought that Mr. B.’s remark brings in, but we cannot enter into that now, but it is there, why these things happen. Is it not a dark negative warning for all ministers that one may preach and teach and yet himself be a castaway? It is a very solemn searching thing.

AMH Would the thought of baptism help us in that? The baptism of water is referred to here as freeing us from the external, and would the idea of being baptised by the Spirit meet what is within so that the man is held in the power of the Spirit?

JT Very good. ‘In’ would imply the operation, the Spirit active, not merely come in as we say in a theoretic way, but active and you are conscious that you are affected inwardly.

JRF Would you say that Judas never reached that?

JT You cannot say much. It says in Hebrews 6:4, “Have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit”. A most remarkable word, yet there is falling away. That does not mean that such are really sealed by the Holy Spirit, but it may go as far as the anointing, the public effect on a person who had part in christianity. Many did this at the beginning, coming into it because of the signs, so that they are said to “have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God, and the works of power of the age to come, and have fallen away”. Hebrews 6:4 - 6.

^[p. 446] It alludes to the public power and action of the Spirit that anyone might come into, as actively subject but not born again, and hence would fall away.

AMH Is Saul an instance of that in the scripture read, Saul the king, falling down?

JT Saul is one who was anointed, and David recognises that, yet he fell under the judgment of God.

CFI What is the thought of being maintained in power and service? The Lord gave them power. Would the baptism of the Holy Spirit ensure a continuance of it?

JT It opens up the question of the doctrine of the Spirit which Romans 8 gives us, showing what power the Spirit has as He has place in us. The subject is based really on the statement of the apostle, “So then I myself with the mind serve God’s law”, Romans 7:25. That is a resolution made by a man who is thoroughly subject to the word of God. He has come to it and has resolved that it should dominate his mind; note that he serves God’s law with the mind. It is not a case of if I can, but a definite resolve. The Spirit comes in in chapter 8 and supports him. That is the way the truth works out in every believer, but particularly in those who serve, because our minds are so treacherous. Unless we arrive at that in our souls, that we will serve nothing but God’s law, we shall be easily turned aside.

Rem “Ezra had directed his heart to seek the law of Jehovah and to do it, and to teach in Israel the statutes and the ordinances”, Ezra 7:10.

JT Seeking God’s law, doing it and teaching it. Therefore, Luke says to Theophilus, “Concerning all things which Jesus began both to do and to teach”, Acts 1:1 meaning that the minister does the things himself, in ^[p. 447] principle at least, and then teaches, to do and to teach.

CFI Is power dependent on subjective and moral state in the minister?

JT Quite so. “I myself” is a fine phrase. It is one finding his consciousness through the remarkable analysis spoken of in Romans 7. He has arrived at a solid footing on the moral line, “I myself with the mind serve God’s law”. That is a great moral victory and the Holy Spirit supports the man who comes to it, according to chapter 8.

EBMcC What would bring in the authority for the service as being together? They would be subject one to another and subject to the Lord’s selection. He gives their names here.

JT Brethren ought to know each other in that sense, specially the sense of ability given and selection made, hence the names. No doubt the names given here would point to what each one was. This was written long after the twelve had been in active service by the power of the Spirit. He gave to Simon the surname of Peter, and to James and John the surname of Boanerges, Sons of thunder. The thought is that the ministers are to know each other. Any one of them going over the list would say, I remember the Lord giving those names, but did not understand then because of not having the Spirit. It is doubtful if they understood anything rightly before having the Spirit, but they could then see why Peter’s name was changed.

FF This would seem to be peculiar to Mark, would it not? Further on in the gospel the Lord says, “In my name they shall cast out demons” Mark 16:17. Is that connected with the special power spoken of here?

JT I should not confine it to Mark, but it is stressed. The seventy had power to cast out demons “through thy name” Luke 10:17, but it is very much stressed in Mark 16:20, “The Lord working with them, and confirming the word by the signs following upon it”. So that they themselves should have power to cast out demons.

FJF Would the result of being with Him be seen in the five stones David chose? Is that an illustration of the finish of the ministry that they would know how to choose, and the character of the stones would be smooth?

JT You would know how to select a scripture for an address and know how to use it. There is such a thing as finding it in a valley or a stream where the action of the water came on the stones. The matter of disease here should be noticed. It is more defined, it is current — things cropping up. We have power to deal with them in the meetings, healing diseases and casting out demons.

SHB Do we understand that in the calling and the appointing the moral state of the vessel is taken account of, or is that done afterwards to maintain the vessel in that line?

JT The moral state, of course, cannot be omitted, but certainly it was not dealt with in each case as they were called. Much had to be accomplished afterwards. A vessel is really taken up potentially, but the matter of Judas has to be treated by itself, that such a man was taken up. What is the lesson? I think it has been stated already in measure, and it is a very solemn thing. It is a shadow over the whole dispensation that a man may have gift and ability, even represent the Lord, and yet be a castaway. There may be a hidden allusion to the way the truth has come down to us. We have to admit that the truth has come down publicly through Rome, but that does not justify Rome or the whole profession either. The testimony is the testimony. The Bible has been preserved in Rome for ages, and the doctrine of it in some sense, but they are still what they are. The Lord’s supper came down in some public way greatly beclouded, but still it is the Lord’s supper.

GW Is this set out in Peter when he speaks of being with Him on the holy mountain?

JT That is confirmatory of what we are saying; it is a further thought. The twelve are here, but only three are taken up to the holy mount, Peter, James and John, which would mean that there was still a further selection, so that the principle of invitation and selection runs right through and you have the very best for all purposes. If the Lord were to develop the truth in a collective way amongst His people He would select certain ones so as to get the truth, not so much for edification, but to get the truth; that is, the greatest measure of spiritual intelligence and hence the greatest result, in that sense. Peter, James and John are taken up to the mount of transfiguration, and later were fitted for services that others were not fitted for. The Lord commanded them to bring out the truth in a refined way, hence their epistles.

EBMcC Do we see how they all embody the spirit; of Christ, all being with Him when coming to the upper room in Acts? They were abiding there, showing that they had drunk in of His spirit and mind.

JT That is one of the first evidences that they were moving in the light of His instructions before the Holy Spirit came.

The gospel has the assembly in mind, but has also the patience of God with Israel in mind, so as to present a final testimony to Israel. The Acts also has the assembly in mind, and instead of telling us that the disciples went to the temple and praised God — they were there daily — Luke says they went to the upper room. The Lord was received up into heaven, showing that the more refined thought was taking effect already, looking towards the assembly. That ^[p. 450] goes right through, because Paul was taken up to the third heaven, which is a further thought, and all that would enter into the final process, so that we should have the truth fully. The Holy Spirit is said in John 16 to guide us into all the truth, but these are being fitted for the purpose, hence Paul was fitted for the mystery. No one else had the ministry of that.

CFI What had you in mind in the power to heal diseases?

JT Power to heal in local difficulties is, I think, in mind now. It is a general thought here. Spiritual disease is often very prolonged.

JRF Would it include dealing with an individual person and helping him to judge the condition that is manifest?

JT It would deal with an individual case, as in James. He gave the apostles power over all demons. “And having called together the twelve, he gave them power and authority over all demons, and to heal diseases, and sent them to proclaim the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick”, Luke 9:1,2. There is a difference between sickness and disease. Sickness may not be so severe as disease.

LDM The word for power is interesting. It is not only ability but the right to exercise the power.

JT It is a question of the authority given. There is much made of the authority in the governing bodies of persons in the systems, but here it is directly from the Lord.

LDM It would seem to be connected with demons particularly.

JT It says, “Power to heal diseases, and to cast out demons”. “To heal diseases” Luke 9:1 may not be there but it is certainly elsewhere. The principal matter here is demons, as you say.

AMH Do you think the apostle Paul’s letter to the Corinthians was on the line of healing diseases, something that ^[p. 451] spreads?

JT I think so. It seems to have been deep in the meetings. The one outstanding case is dealt with according to chapter 5, but there were others of similar kind.

CFI Would this be in the way of bringing in positive ministry to meet a situation in the local meeting, or might it go so far as touching the details?

JT I think it would go as far as touching details. It is a medical case, and we have to make a diagnosis of disease.

CHH Is it not of some importance that the healing comes before the casting out in the wording of the scripture?

JT There is a good deal of this sort of thing cropping up everywhere. The power to heal is of great importance. James speaks of it in a literal sense. Paul speaks of persons sick in a literal sense, and coming under the discipline of God. Many fall asleep, but then there is the idea of healing, too. Rather let it be healed. Is there any balm in Gilead? Is there any physician there? is a good suggestion. Jeremiah 8:21.

CHH Does it suggest that all power of the Spirit is to be exerted first on this principle of healing?

JT It is available and there is power for it.

FWW Would you say there need not be any chronically sick?

JT There need not be. James says that the sick man is to call the elders of the assembly. Sins are likely to be involved, so they pray over him and the prayer of faith heals the sick. God does it actually, but by the prayer of faith.

WHW Brethren in a locality where there is disease would not just accept the position, but be concerned about it in view of the power available to meet ^[p. 452] it.

JT Especially would they pray about it and anoint with oil, so that if the sick is to be raised up, he will be for the testimony.

WHW Would the exercise of prayer in regard to a local difficulty find its expression in the local meetings for ministry?

JT There is usually the laying on of hands with it and the anointing with oil. Power comes out in connection with state amongst us, God honouring a certain state, but the assembly is brought into it, according to James, where it says, “Let him call to him the elders of the assembly” James 5:14. We cannot say we have them now, but there is the thought of the prayer of faith, and the anointing with oil taken spiritually would mean that faith and prayer would raise up a man. It would act that way and they would be more useful, as a brother or sister, in the testimony afterwards.

WHW In many cases we have to admit sorrowfully that one is taken note of as going this way. The prayers of the brethren do not seem to be answered, and the case will go the full course.

JT Paul says it went the full course at Corinth. It does not seem as if they exercised much prayer, because many were weak and sick amongst them, and many fell asleep, but the Lord would encourage us as to the state required for the healing of disease. Persons who have the assembly at heart, and who can pray to God, have nothing else in view but the testimony. The prayer of faith will heal the sick.

This matter of prophecy is now well under our notice, and it is really a very concrete expression of the power of ministry of that kind, under the presidency of Christ. It is brought in here to show how effective it is when there is special opposition to Christ, as in the messengers of Saul, who were murderers, Saul having murder in his heart. “They saw a company of prophets prophesying, and Samuel standing as president over them”.

^[p. 453] That is the first thing to see, that sort of thing where it exists, for that is unified ministry carried on under the influence of Christ, who is in the place of authority over them.

JRF Is Samuel in this position typical of Christ?

JT Clearly.

CHH Is this to show how effective a powerful prophetic ministry is by the Spirit under the presidency of the Lord?

JT That is clearly, I think, something to be seen. The apostle speaks of seeing, and here prophecy is being carried on under the influence of the Lord. It is a fine sight. That is the first thing they saw, then they came under the influence of the Spirit, confirming what we have been saying that the Spirit may extend to persons who are not subjects of the work of God. The Spirit of God came upon the messengers of Saul and they also prophesied. We know from Balaam’s case how this can happen, a thoroughly wicked man prophesying — that is God bringing out what is possible.

EWC Is this state seen here like the spiritual system functioning under the Lord?

JT Quite so. The word “president” would mean that, but it points clearly to the ministry being under His direct guidance and influence. What we get in 1 Corinthians 14 illustrates it. If one is prophesying, and another sitting by has received something, the one speaking would sit down, showing that he is subject. The Spirit is there and it confines the evidence under one authority — they are not divided. “It was told Saul, and he sent other messengers, and they also prophesied. And Saul sent messengers again the third time, and they also prophesied”. Then he himself comes, and he prophesied, but he is exposed in ^[p. 454] doing it.

FWW Would this be an evidence of God being indeed among you (1 Corinthians 14:25)?

JT I think very much so. You can see how Satan in this chapter was attacking David, Saul aiming at his destruction. Jonathan saved him temporarily, Michal saved him temporarily, but the ministry of prophecy saves him finally. That shows what the thing is.

FWW The prophetic word in that way brings God in.

JT Exactly. One of the most remarkable things in scripture is this passage, and I think it bears on the present time in regard to unity in the ministry, brethren moving in unity and in subjection to Christ, and He having His part in it in presidency.

WHW Would the help of Jonathan and Michal be like Nicodemus, who quoted the law in the synagogue to try and save Christ? That lacks elevation.

JT The great thing here is to see the presidency of Samuel. He is no longer officially a prophet, no longer ruling Israel; he is himself rejected, which is the position of Christ in the religious world. Although rejected, Samuel still has some place, which even Saul recognises, but not sufficiently to turn away his murderous attitude towards David.

CHH How would that work out at the present time? Is it in the acknowledgment and movement under the headship of Christ?

JT We are trying to show that you accept rejection of Christ, not now the Jewish rejection but the religious rejection of today. Samuel has some place with Saul but not enough to turn away his murderous opposition to David. Samuel had to do with the governing of the kingdom, but he is not doing it now; Saul is in that place, and Samuel is retired in that sense, but not really retired, as a more important service is going on, the service of prophecy, and he has got the others in it; he has brought the others into it. That is what ^[p. 455] the Lord is endeavouring to do, to bring us into this matter of prophecy, so that we are actually doing it, not ministry, but prophecy.

So the word is that the messengers of Saul saw a company of prophets prophesying; they were doing the thing with Samuel as president over them. They were not doing it as they might have done it at Corinth, where there was much rivalry over gift; the point is prophecy, and that is what they are doing here. They are under Samuel’s direction and influence, and the persons who come, although representing evil, are themselves overcome by it. It is the surest way of meeting evil.

CFI What do you mean when saying that it is not merely a matter of ministry?

JT You might minister otherwise than by prophecy. Here the prophets were doing the thing, like Philip’s four daughters who prophesied, not simply that they were prophetesses, but they were prophesying.

FF Would prophecy in these saints overcome the voice of rebellion?

JT That is what comes out. The superior power of God would bring it out as they prophesied. It is the superior power that operates in brethren in overcoming evil.

DR Do we see unity here in Samuel and the prophets together with David?

JT That is the point. They are prophesying under Samuel’s presidency; so in Corinth the apostle assumes that this is going on, that they are prophesying in the meetings there, and a man comes in who may be unconverted and the secrets of his heart are made manifest. If he went in and out without being affected, he might say there is not much in that meeting. I may go to the synagogue or any other so-called church, but the prophetic ministry affects me. The secrets of his heart are made manifest, not externally as in this case,

^[p. 456] but he is affected inwardly and convicted of all, and falls down and worships God, and reports that “God is indeed amongst you”. 1 Corinthians 14:25.

FJF Would this character of ministry be seen in every meeting, because generally we have only a meeting of that character, for ministry, once a month?

JT Not that often in some places. Some localities have not got it at all.

FJF Then he would get nothing.

JT Just so; not that the idea of God being felt in the meeting is restricted to such meetings as described in 1 Corinthians 14, but certainly the chapter is of great value from the point of view we are taking now. The brethren should have recourse to it and God will honour faith.

WHW Is your thought that there is something to be seen here? If the enemy is opposing, the Lord would have something to counteract that opposition amongst His people?

JT That is right. They saw that here, and there is manifest power to deal with the matter.

RJS It speaks of the whole assembly coming together in one place. Is unity emphasised there?

JT Quite so: not come together in assembly, but the whole assembly together in one place to bring out what God has in the place, and that is the power of subjective ministry. There is ability for it. God makes a great deal of a town and what He has in it. The Lord said to Paul, “I have much people in this city”. Acts 18:10. But that was not all; these people were to be converted and formed into an assembly, the full thought of God’s power in the place. It is a question now of what God has in this city, and whether the city gets the benefit depends on whether there is power.

LDM The scripture suggests what is for the saints universally, in the Lord’s mind. The Lord is supporting ^[p. 457] that.

JT It is the sort of thing that enters in; all the assemblies should be characterised by the same thing.

FJF Is a word of such character as here contemplated given as we are together, or is it in a sense carried there? Or does the Lord give it as here? They seem to come into the current of it, and they take it up.

JT The whole assembly coming together in one place certainly would carry something. The confirmation is there, but then the question is what one has. One has a psalm, another a teaching, a tongue, a revelation, an interpretation, but then as to this matter of a person sitting by, if something is revealed to him on the spot, that is one of the greatest things, it is revelation, because the Spirit given to us is the Spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of God. It is something coming to you at the moment. (1 Corinthians 14:30). These things may seem merely theoretic now, but I believe the Lord would honour every meeting that takes them on while giving Him His place, and if we humbly wait the Spirit will act. How ready to act He would be in one of the brethren who is subject! He acted in an unsaved person in Numbers, Balaam.

FWW What have you to say as to the great well?

JT I suppose it has a place as all wells have.

“Then went he also to Ramah, and came to the great well that is in Sechu”. That would be a reminder of the wealth that there is where the Holy Spirit is. We have already commented on the passage in the Acts, where the Lord spoke of the promise of the Father, but He had also spoken of the well, too, the Spirit as a well in the saints.

FWW You spoke just now of some place with no meeting of this character. Do you think that this great well would encourage such a meeting?

JT I think so. “The whole assembly come together” would be the character of the well, that is the Holy Spirit in the assembly. It is a very great thought. The prophets are gifts, universal in thought, and the ^[p. 458] great well would bring in all the saints, brothers and sisters alike, because of our being indwelt by the Spirit; the well should have that character.

FWW Even the smallest meeting would have some spiritual wealth in the meeting.

JT Quite so; that brings every one into the matter, the whole assembly in one place. They bring something; they have the Holy Spirit and the character He gives to us, subjection and singleness of affection for one another. All that enters into the idea of the well. That is what Saul came to. Then he prophesied, but he is exposed in doing it. God is not letting him off.

FJF So the prophet might himself feel his own word most.

JT Quite so; there were many at Corinth not let off. They might have had part in the service, but were exposed in the end, being false apostles.

EBMcC Would you say that one should not rise to his feet unless he had a word? And should anyone sitting by and listening rise without receiving something?

JT Certainly it would be a courageous matter to rise when another brother was speaking; but it is remarkable, it is the organism that is alluded to. Such sensitiveness would be in the assembly that if a brother sitting received something from the Lord in the meeting, the one speaking would sit down, and the other would rise up.

AMH Does that make room for three words on different subjects? There is an idea that they should be on the same subject.

JT I do not think it is so, or we should be apt to get suggestive meetings. I think that something revealed to the one sitting by would be different.

AMH I had thought that.