DIVINE ENDS REACHED AS THE LORD COMES IN
[p. 82] DIVINE ENDS REACHED AS THE LORD COMES IN
Luke 1:8 - 13; Luke 24:36 - 49
JT Other scriptures will need to be looked into about our subject. The leading thought in mind is that Luke would show that divine ends, especially assembly service, can only be reached as the Lord comes in and takes part. We have noticed that Zacharias was occupied with his service, which was, according to the order of his course, to burn incense; it says, “All the multitude of the people were praying without at the hour of incense”, as if the great thought of the altar and prayer could only become effective as the angel came in, “standing on the right of the altar of incense”. He came in in regard of what was there, he appeared to Zacharias, but at the right of the altar of incense, that is, in relation to what was going on; and the Lord, in the last chapter, is seen standing in their midst. The saints had been gathered and were speaking; they had begun, but obviously from the verses read they could not reach an end according to God had not the Lord stood in their midst. It does not say in this particular case that He came — John says He came, “Then came Jesus” John 20:26; that is, the condition, well known to the Lord, hardly warranted the thought of His coming; His place is standing in their midst. The word ‘came’ in John involves certain conditions to be more in keeping with the Lord. Brethren will remember the wording in John 20:19 - 21, “When therefore it was evening on that day, which was the first day of the week, and the doors shut where the disciples were, through fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and says to them, Peace be to you”. There is nothing said of any activity or speaking on their part; the Lord evidently came in relation to the state that was there, which would mean the [p. 83] condition was suitable. Here it would seem that it is the concrete condition He had in mind; they had already begun speaking, and, although what was being said was suitable so far, their state did not agree wholly with what they were saying, so that the word ‘came’ is omitted and the Lord is just said to stand there Himself and it is in their midst — the persons that were present: whereas in John it is the midst, having a wider bearing evidently. It is as if we cannot go on to the wider thought, the universal spiritual side of the assembly condition, apart from the local concrete condition, the state of the saints — “As they were saying these things”, it says, “he himself stood in their midst”: in John’s account it is “Jesus came”.
Ques Do you get the same principle in John 12? It says Jesus came to Bethany; but in Matthew it is, “Being in Bethany, in Simon the leper’s house”. Matthew 26:6 Is that the same thing in another setting?
JT I think that is good. It is very likely Luke and John record the same events, and so do John and Matthew record the same events. It is very likely that it was what Matthew records without mentioning Mary’s anointing, and that it occurred at the same time; but anyway John gives you the state that was evidently agreeable and wholly suitable to the Lord.
PL Does the coming suggest attraction, that there is affinity of mind with the Lord as with Mary of Bethany; and does the other suggest the Lord condescending in compassionate service on His own initiative to meet conditions?
JT Yes, as if there can be nothing at all if He does not. It reminds us that, although we may be saying the right things, the divine end cannot be reached without the Lord.
PL Would the first thought be priesthood, what John speaks of — the minister of the [p. 84] sanctuary?
JT It would be more that perhaps. It is a wider thought in John, I think: “the midst” is spiritually a wider thought than “their midst”. It is “their midst” in Luke, as if the Lord would say, I am not ignoring local conditions. They were not restful.
WC Would the principle be in Joshua 5, where it says, “There stood a man over against him”, Joshua 5:13 and then the Lord says, “As captain of the host of the Lord am I now come” Joshua 5 :14 — that is in conflict, but would the principle be there?
JT I think it would, “Am I now come”, the allusion, I suppose, would be to what had preceded as to the requirements in the land, circumcision and so on. “Am I now come” — He would take charge of such a host; it would now be recognised as Jehovah’s host.
WC Would you say a little as to how we might discern the Lord’s arrival in this way as we are together?
JT We have first the thought mentioned in regard to Gabriel in chapter 1; then we see it more clearly in chapter 24. Zacharias was carrying on; the order was right. He had already prayed and the angel alludes to the fact that his supplications had been heard, but he was unbelieving. The angel stands at the right of the altar of incense; prayer is going on. It says, “All the multitude of the people were praying without at the hour of incense”, and the angel of the Lord appears to him standing on the right of the altar of incense; as much as to say, ‘The prayers will be effective and can only be effective by my being here’. And Zacharias was troubled, but the angel said to him, “Fear not, Zacharias, because thy supplication has been heard”, and so on; and he questions what the angel says, and the angel says, “I am Gabriel” — he announces who it is that has come, “who stand before God, and I have been sent to speak to thee, and to bring these glad tidings to thee; and behold, thou shalt be silent and not able to speak, till the day in which these things shall take place, because thou hast not believed my words, the which shall be fulfilled in their time”. Luke 1:19,20.
[p. 85] It seems to me that the point is that there had been prayers and there were prayers, and that the angel standing at the right in regard of what is on hand is to make all effective, that there might be real results, but the state forbade it; at least the state was not in keeping with the opportunity, and so discipline had to come in in the case of Zacharias. Now in chapter 24 the Lord stood there too, the service was going on, so to say, they were saying the right things so far, but the state was not right; and not only that, but the Lord was intimating that He is taking account of the service so far, that what they were doing and saying was quite right, but he says, ‘You must have Me, and I am here to serve’, because He is standing, not that He came and stood, but He Himself stood there in their midst, among them, to do what was needful.
CH Had you in mind that the service must go on, and so with the saints together in chapter 24 the service was beyond the state?
JT Well, they were saying right things in both cases; outwardly they were right, and it would seem as if the Lord is honouring what they are saying; indeed the angel too coming in chapter 1 is honouring what was there, for it is a question of the altar of incense, that is to say, a question of real results being reached according to God, and he is at the right of the altar of incense. The Lord standing, according to chapter 24, was in the same sense; He was there to make effective according to God all that entered into the position — He stood there. It is not that He came complacently, that is not the point; He stood in their midst, as if to say, ‘I am there in relation to you. There is a great deal enters into this, but I am in your midst knowing every one of you abstractly’. In John it is the abstract thought, the saints, as having the Spirit and gathered according to God are abstractly according to His mind, but then the local concrete condition cannot be passed over, and there is no use in proceeding unless we accept the actual local condition.
Rem So that in Luke we find them confounded and frightened when they see the Lord.
JT Yes, they were not really equal to the position. The position itself is right, and the two that left Emmaus and found the eleven and those with them were right. In fact they confirmed the position that it was right, the saints there were the ones that should be there and what they were saying, so far, was right; but they were not equal to the position and all that entered into it.
Rem In John the disciples rejoiced when they saw the Lord.
JT Yes, that is the abstract thought, which we may come to later. Our position, the position of the brethren today, coming together to break bread, is right, it is as right as the position was at Troas, and, being right, all the divine mind enters into it as to the assembly; it is God’s assembly, in that sense, and the mind of God enters into it; and the Lord is ready; He comes in in relation to what we are abstractly according to John and as complacent in it from that point of view. But, according to Luke, He cannot pass over the local condition, and He does not come, as it were complacently; He just stands there: “He himself stood in their midst”, Luke 24:36 that is the local position.
PL Is it the difference between the glory appearing at the door of the tabernacle in various crises, often where the state was unsuitable, and the glory filling the house, where all is complacent?
JT That is good, I am sure. The glory did appear and left immediately; it appeared too to correct,
[p. 87] but in the end of Exodus and 2 Chronicles 5, it came in complacently to take the whole position over in each case. We have to wait and see now. If the Lord is just standing there Himself and says, Peace, He has nothing else in His mind for us but peace; still, His presence will bring out what is there; it is sure to bring out what is there.
Rem Not in view of our being hindered from going forward, but that we might be helped to go on to God’s end.
JT That is the thought. He is ready to do what is necessary, but the divine end is in His mind. In chapter 22 He condescends to have preparations made for His coming. They eat the passover; He does not come to them as they begin but as they proceed. But the ground is changed at that point, He institutes the Supper and that is their matter; they are to come together to break bread; that is their matter, so that He comes in as they are proceeding, not at the beginning.
Ques Will you say a word as to the Lord’s question, “Why are thoughts rising in your hearts?” Luke 24:38. What kind of thoughts would they be?
JT They would not be like the living water springing up into everlasting life.
Ques Something out of the control of the Spirit, you mean?
JT Yes, just so, adverse or extraneous things. Why are they arising? If these thoughts are arising you will not make a way for the Lord. John the baptist’s ministry was to make a way for the Lord, and when Abraham set the pieces over against each other he intended to make a way for the Lord to come in. He put piece against piece of the creatures he slew under the Lord’s direction in Genesis 15 and the fowls of the air came down; they would hinder all that, and Abraham scares them away. There was not that power here. These thoughts are loose lawless [p. 88] kinds of things without control, arising in our hearts, and it is very common with us that these foreign thoughts become rampant instead of being under control. The apostle says, “I myself with the mind serve God’s law” Romans 7:25 — these thoughts are not according to God’s law.
HB Would it be a matter of faith, even if the condition is low, to recognise that the Lord is with us and to seek to hear His voice and prove His power?
JT I think so. Why are these thoughts arising in your heart? Romans 7 would teach us to control ourselves. This thought cannot be right, you say, I disallow it, it is like a fowl coming down, foreign elements disturbing the conditions; they prevent the Lord coming in. These thoughts must not be allowed scope. The thing is to make a way for the Lord, He is on the way, He is not sitting but standing and these thoughts arising block His way.
WC Do these thoughts reflect back on what we may have been occupied with during the six days of the week?
JT I think so. We ought to habituate ourselves to control. “If, by the Spirit, ye put to death the deeds of the body” Romans 8:13 — that is the principle. The point reached at the end of Romans 7 is that I resolve with the mind to keep God’s law, whatever it may be; it is not specified there. If I accustom myself to that, when sitting down in assembly I will not allow these foreign thoughts to be rampant, blocking the Lord’s way. It says here, “But they, being confounded and being frightened, supposed they beheld a spirit. And he said to them, Why are ye troubled? and why are; thoughts rising in your hearts?”
WC You were alluding to birds just now; would it be illustrated in the raven and the dove in the ark? It is a question which bird, so to speak, we are identified with, whether we are identified with the Holy Spirit. It says, “The mind of the flesh is death” — that would be the raven, I suppose — “but the mind of the Spirit life and peace”. Romans 8:6.
JT I think that is good. There is a beautiful link between the dove and Noah; he took her unto him into the ark. She found no resting-place for her foot and came back to Noah. These thoughts the Lord alludes to here, I am sure, and they hinder our meetings if they are allowed; they are not to be allowed, they are to be under control. Why are they arising in our hearts?
Ques Is the principle exemplified in Exodus 34, when Jehovah instructed Moses to be ready for the morning, to hew for himself two tables? He seems to be ready for divine communications, and it says Jehovah came down and stood before him there. Is that the principle of a man serving the law of God, being under divine control and ready for a divine manifestation?
JT I think that is good, he is in entire keeping with the position, the Lord passing before him announced who and what He is; that is, there was a way for the Lord. John the baptist made a way for the Lord, so that, if He came in, the point, I suppose, would be here that there should be a way for Him; instead of that, He finds confusion, they are troubled and these unbelieving thoughts are rampant.
CH John 20 says, “The doors being shut”. John 20:26 Does that come in in this connection? You are speaking of the mind and control of what is inward.
JT It does indeed; they took care of that. The doors would be the doors of our hearts, as has often been pointed out. It is not ‘door’, it is not the idea of a room entrance through which each of us comes; the idea is a spiritual one, the doors of our hearts are in mind; that is, the disciples are viewed there abstractly, I believe, in the light of the message the [p. 90] Lord had sent to them; Mary had come and told them these things, she said she had seen the Lord and that He had spoken these things to her. It would seem as if their hearts treasured the message and they did not want Him disturbed. It was where the disciples were, and then it says, “Jesus came and stood in the midst”. John 20:26.
CH I wondered if the allusion to the Jews would suggest the concern that was with them lest that which was merely outward should be a hindrance.
JT Yes, if the Jews got in they would block the Lord’s way; that is the idea of legality, to block the divine way. The Jewish element shuts the Lord out; it is incompatible with the heavenly calling, so that, if the Lord came in as He did there, it would be in relation to the heavenly call, the message He sent before.
AB Is it very like John 14, “Let not your heart be troubled” John 14:27,28 and then, “I am coming to you”?
JT Yes, one might suggest reading a verse from John 14, for it enters into this matter. The Lord said, “I will not leave you orphans, I am coming to you” John 14:18 — that follows the announcement that He would send the Spirit; it is contingent on the presence of the Spirit here. It is the Spirit that is needed to make a way for the Lord; the Spirit is the medium through which He comes, and John 14 contemplates that the Spirit would be there, and consequent upon that, He would come.
Ques I would like to ask, in regard of these verses, how the Lord waits on the saints, whether it would suggest we should give time to conserve the actual impression the Lord may give us at the Supper, and not be in too much of a hurry to move away from it?
JT I think that is good. Room should be given to Him too to adjust our thoughts as to what enters into the Supper, the idea of the assembly in its relation [p. 91] to Him and His relation to it. So, after the Supper is finished, I believe the Lord would take occasion to enlarge our view as to the assembly’s relation to Him and His to her. I was thinking today that in Exodus, before the actual service of God is entered upon, Moses’ wife returns to him; she had been away and her father brings her back with the children. I believe that there is a touch in it as to the service of God, that Christ and the assembly are in mind in a pre-eminent way. The idea of the bride really, as you might say, originated with the Father; that is, this condition is the relation which He had in mind, and it is not only for the satisfaction of Christ, but for the satisfaction of God. It was God that said, “It is not good that Man should be alone” Genesis 2:18, and He evidently had pleasure in the relation formed between Adam and Eve. Then in the next great type of the assembly, that is Rebecca, we find the same thing, that the father is concerned about the son having his bride; he is seen as alone in the field meditating, but Sarah’s tent is unoccupied; that would be Israel’s position, involving the service of God. So Abraham is greatly concerned as to the bride Isaac is to have and that the nuptials should be in relation to the heavenly side of the position — Isaac does not come down from the mount, according to the facts mentioned. Abraham’s servant came down from Beer-sheba, as if it is a heavenly matter now, and then there is concern that the wife should be of his order, of his family, so that the scene is filled out in that way as originating with the Father. And now, in Moses’ case, when the service is about to be inaugurated, we have the wife brought back by her father in Exodus 18; the Spirit is seen typically in chapter 17. We have indeed Joshua introduced in chapter 17 and then Zipporah is brought back in chapter 18, and chapter 19 begins the service of God, because it was to be on that mountain, that is [p. 92] where the service was to begin. We ought to make room for Christ in the assembly, ample room, because it involves union, and it involves our most intimate relations with Christ and gives Him scope as to material in answering to the Father, in answering to God in His service. What do you say about that?
PL Your point is that what is obviously in union with Christ would be sensitive to His quickening power as Head in relation to the service of God?
JT I think it enriches it, speaking reverently; the Lord is capable of being affected Himself: “Jesus rejoiced in spirit”, Luke 10:21 we are told, at a certain time, and it was in relation to the saints. He had already said, “Your names are written in heaven”, Luke 10:20 and He rejoiced in spirit, and proceeded to speak to them about the Father and about Himself. “No one knows who the Son is but the Father, and who the Father is but the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son is pleased to reveal him”, Luke 10:22. And then He turns to His disciples, as if they were now in His mind. It seems to me that, unless we make full room for the assembly, we have incompleteness in the position. The completion of the divine mind is the wife, the divine mind in man is the wife; we see that in Genesis.
PL John 12 emphasises that; He has something for His own heart in Bethany.
JT You can see how He reached something. I suppose it is the Jewish position in the beginning of chapter 12 in Bethany, but still He reached a definite end, so that there is completion there so far. Then there is something more in chapter 13, because He says, “Unless I wash thee, thou hast not part with me”, John 13:8 but He wants to carry the saints along with Him, and we know that Paul’s ministry coming in adds the great divine thought, it was the full bringing out of the divine mind; Christ is “head over all things to the assembly, which is his body, the fulness of him who fills all in all”. Ephesians 1:22.
[p. 93] It is the bringing out of the divine mind, and Paul introduces the Lord’s supper as he does, receiving it directly from the Lord in heaven. These facts would convey to us that we must make full room for Christ in the assembly, the assembly viewed as His bride.
Ques Would you say that, whilst the nuptials belong to the heavenly side, Exodus 18 suggests the wilderness at the moment?
JT That would be the thought of the Lord’s supper — sitting down in that way.
Rem Yes. I was thinking of that, for it mentions definitely that Moses took his sons and his wife into the wilderness, as if that was a great incentive to move to the heavenly side.
JT Then in the Song of Songs we have, “Who is this that cometh up from the wilderness, leaning upon her beloved?”. Song of Songs 8:5 It is Christ and the assembly, and now there is moving forward both in Christ and in the saints, speaking reverently. I believe there is great perfection and glory shining in affection.
WC Would the allusion in Exodus 2 to Moses being forgotten by the daughters of Reuel after serving them indicate the tendency with us to forget the Lord? Reuel says, “Where is he? why then have ye left the man behind?” Exodus 2:20.
JT Quite so, they had not considered for him.
WC Is there in your allusion to chapter 18 the thought of recovery? Apparently Zipporah is subject now; we do not hear more of her.
JT I think Jethro is remarkable — carrying forward the thought. Moses is content to dwell with the man. You might say, Because he was going to marry his daughter, but that is not the point. It is the kind of man Moses was; he was content to dwell in circumstances unpleasant naturally, he was a subject man, subject to God, and that finds its full answer [p. 94] in Christ, what He accepted here. Now, the deliverance of the people having come about, her father brings her to Moses in the wilderness, as if to fill out the position before he enters on the service of God which had been spoken of earlier. That was the great thought in the mind of God, “Ye shall serve God upon this mountain” Exodus 3:12 — but before the service begins the wife is brought to him.
PL So you have what you have alluded to as personality, “I, thy father-in-law Jethro, am come to thee”. Exodus 18:6.
JT That is very good. It brings out the position of Jethro and his advice to Moses, too. There is the complete filling out of the position of Moses that he is not alone in the thing; he has his wife now and his children too. All that enters, I think, into the Lord’s supper.
Ques Would you say, in the Song of Songs, that what is in mind earlier is what the bridegroom says to the bride, “The voice of the turtle is heard in our land ...”, Song of Songs 2:12 but at the end of the book, she moves leaning on her beloved? Is that the heavenly side?
JT Yes, quite so. The main thought, I think, is the Lord. After the emblems are all finished with, restfulness before the Lord would lead to reciprocation of affection between Him and ourselves in the light in which we are now speaking of ourselves, namely, as of the assembly. There are many hymns that speak of the saints in that light that do not make room for the relation between Christ and the assembly, but, if we are able to speak to the Lord on these lines, I believe there will be great enrichment and confirmation too as to the assembly’s place, filling out the position, because the assembly is always the fulness of Christ.
Ques Is it illustrated in Hosea where we get two sections placed together; the end of one is, “Thou shalt call me, My husband” Hosea 2:16, and the next section is, “Thou art my people; and they shall say, My God” Hosea 2:23. Is that in keeping with the same position?
JT I think it is.
AB In connection with being to Another, it is in view that we should bring forth fruit to God.
JT That fits nicely, “To be to another, who has been raised up from among the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God”, Romans 7:4 and then it goes on to say, “That we should serve in newness of spirit”; Romans 7:6 it seems the two thoughts are put together there in Romans.
HL Will you say a word as to the way in which the Lord calls attention to Himself in Luke, “It is I myself”?
JT He is there in assembly and is to be distinguished from the Spirit. It is the Lord we are dealing with and He is to be spoken to, as amongst us in an objective way.
H Does this passage in Luke suggest that the Lord is able to overcome defective conditions in ourselves?
JT Yes, the facts show He is not going past these conditions; He will not proceed merely on abstract lines to reach the end He desires; He must take account of the actual concrete conditions in the company. Otherwise we should be just going on objectively without regard to the actual state of the brethren.
PS Would you say a word as to the introduction of the principle of resurrection as set out in the bones; how it would help us in the matter?
JT You mean the Lord says, “Handle me and see, for a spirit has not flesh and bones as ye see me having”. “Flesh and bones” does involve resurrection; that raises the whole point as to the fact that not a bone of the passover lamb was to be broken,
[p. 96] and immediately you have, in that connection, Joseph’s bones. The Lord here alludes to a raised state, for it is not “flesh and blood”, but “flesh and bones”; bones carry forward more the identity of the person, the whole idea.