THE LORD'S SERVANTS LEARNING TOGETHER
THE LORD’S SERVANTS LEARNING TOGETHER
Mark 3:13 - 19; Mark 6: 30 - 32; 1 Samuel 19: 19 - 24
JT These scriptures speak of the Lord’s servants learning together — learning under His influence. Firstly it is the formal selection in the mountain. It is said of them He appointed twelve that they might be with Him and that He might send them to preach with power to heal diseases and to cast out demons. Then in chapter 6 we have them as servants returning. It is said the apostles are gathered to Jesus, and He would have them to depart into a desert place to rest a little. That is, that they might be with Him and it is that they might rest with Him in a desert place. Then finally the actual service of prophesying carried on typically under Christ, for it is said that there was a company of prophets prophesying and Samuel standing as president over them. That is what is in mind.
FI You mean that the servant is presented here as not taken on exactly in an individual way, but taken on as moving in relation to others under the Lord.
JT Yes, that is the thought, no doubt, in Mark. We only find them in this company in Mark. The Lord intends that there should be unity of the faith in serving in this way. They serve unitedly understanding the truth. There would be no diversity. Servants should take on the character of Christ. They should be with Him, and with Him they take on His spirit. There should be no independency amongst those who serve. If there is cleavage among them, there will soon be cleavage amongst the brethren as a whole; so that in a locality such as this, with the brethren in subdivisions, it is important to observe the whole and to come under the influence of Christ.
[p. 158] Subdivisions should not make for independency or cleavage.
The position is morally elevated — that would be the thought in the mountain. He goes up into the mountain and calls whom He Himself would. They went to Him, it says, and He appointed twelve so that they might be with Him that He might send them to preach and to have power to heal diseases and to cast out demons.
FI What you have in mind is that although there may be three subdivisions the thought is that they should move as a whole.
JT That is the thought — whether those who lead amongst them or the saints as a whole. Those who lead, in general, give character to the saints.
The Lord prayed to His Father that they might be one, as He and the Father are one. The great thought of oneness proceeds from God the Father. There is perfect unity in the divine Persons — the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Unless those who are leading are united, the saints will not be.
M So that recognition of divine sovereignty would help us to move together as one?
JT You are honouring Christ if you are honouring His selection in moving with others He has called.
It all refers back to God. There is no divergence as referring to God and to Christ and the Spirit. The unity of the Godhead works out in us by the Spirit, so we are enjoined to keep the unity of the Spirit and also to keep the unity of the faith. The unity of the Spirit is to do with the affections. The unity of the faith has to do with what we hold as teaching.
EH Would the unity of the faith work out in all saying the same thing?
JT That is good. It is a remarkable statement in Philippians 2 — united spirit and mind. So known to each other that we discern each other’s [p. 159] minds — thinking the same thing — not only saying but thinking.
AH Do you think that Mark presents this with a view to helping in the service?
JT I think he intends to show the ground upon which we are. All are called at the same time and have the same advantages. All had been there with Christ upon the mountain and all are sent out by Him, knowing each other and under the influence of Christ. We are like each other in the service, each having his own distinction, of course. The distinctions here are brought out — Peter and Boanerges. There are distinctions, but all coming out from under the influence of Christ together.
AB Is there any reason why the Lord chose twelve?
JT It is a numeral that has a great place in Scripture. It is the most divisible of all numbers. It would allude to what we are saying, the prevalence of love as under the influence of Christ. We are to love one another, and as thus divisible we see how the Lord can link us for service according to His thought without any danger of rivalry. I think that is the thought in the twelve. So the Lord can use us together or singly without any danger of envy or rivalry.
G Is that a reflection when Paul says, “Are ye not men?”?
JT Yes, it is what marks the world — partisan associations. So we always want to read Scripture in its context. In that scripture it is what marks men commonly in the world, whereas later on Paul says, “Quit yourselves like men”. There it is developed christianity.
EH That they might be with Him. That would bring us under His influence?
JT That is what is in mind — companionship with Him. He would take care to [p. 160] influence them as with Him in this exalted position on the mountain.
AHH So that they all take on His ways. Is that the thought?
JT You can see how it would be, how they would observe the Lord. Every moment would bring out some new feature in Him, and He would show Himself. We have in the beginning of Acts how He showed Himself or presented Himself. It would mean that He intended to be known. So that on the mountain He would disclose Himself according to what He intended to produce in them. They would be impressionable and He would appear before them so as to impress them. Hence the importance of being observant when in spiritual surroundings, for He expresses Himself in His people now. A large company or a small company of spiritual persons engaged in this way, the Lord shows Himself to. He has means of expressing Himself to those who are spiritually together.
P These apostles would see what was in the Lord’s mind in having them with Him? He called them and they went to Him.
JT I think that. How the apostles, particularly James and John when speaking together with one another would say, ‘We had a good time today’. The Lord would make a point of showing Himself in some particular way. He wished to convey some particular thought that He intended ultimately to be set out in testimony in them. They would say to each other, ‘I never saw the Lord like this before’. This would be needed for them in their service. It was the making time for them.
HL Would the power of the call be seen in the united movement to Him?
JT Very good. They had Him before them.
M It would suggest that they would be detached in that way from all that was current and [p. 161] recognised?
JT Quite so. What was current at the bottom of the mountain did not hold them.
AL Is there the thought of gift as associated with Christ as the ascended Man?
JT Quite so. According to the Psalm He received gifts in Man. They were in Him first so as to be expressed and then given. The Lord would have them all in Himself. He received gifts in Man for men, so as to distribute them for men, but He would express every gift.
AHH So that He would have us with Him first and then distribute.
JT That is right. The first thing is to get to know the Lord. I must get to know the Lord so as to use the gift. It would seem from Ephesians that whilst He appointed the apostles here according to this chapter, yet they were all, as it were, confirmed from heaven by Him as ascended. All power comes down from above but the important thing is the vessel in which the gift is to be. In Ephesians the gifts are in men. That is, the gift is the vessel. Elsewhere the gift is in him. So that the vessel must be brought under the care of Christ. Otherwise there would be great discrepancy between the power of the gift and the vessel and therefore the vessel is not a model.
The idea is that the vessel should be a model.
AH Is the Lord stressing that in chapter 9, when the disciples ask why they could not cast him out and He says, “This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting”?
JT That is the vessel — prayer and fasting is what belongs to the vessel. On the mount here the Lord was not ministering, it was a question of personal touch, to see the kind of Man He was. We are linked together and therefore in all our meetings we move together and we are able to maintain practical unity in the Spirit and in the faith, and the saints are kept in [p. 162] unity.
AG Is there anything to be learned from the reference about Judas?
JT He is never to be allowed to escape. When there is an unruly person the Lord will never let him off. It is remarkable what hints there are as to Judas from the outset.
FI It appears here there is preaching with power. Does the power depend to a great extent on being together as a whole? We often do a lot of preaching without success or little result in evidence. Is that because we are not together?
JT It may be. Success in preaching depends upon the unity of the local brethren, not only on the preacher but the state of the brethren. Power should be there and if a good condition exists you will have support in preaching, power to heal diseases and to cast out demons. Diseases would be moral conditions amongst the brethren. Only with power can you meet this, not simply in what you say.
Ques Peter could say, Look on us, in the beginning of Acts. Is that the thought?
JT Exactly; not so much the gift — they were personally united. As contrasted with the Beautiful gate, here was something more beautiful.
AHH Preaching is a question of gift?
JT Quite so; of course there is power in preaching but there is the additional power of healing diseases and casting out demons. These conditions might exist in the locality.
AH What you are implying is that if we do not get good results, we should all take it to heart.
JT Very good. Diseases are common in localities. Diseases would imply that they are catching — infectious things brethren catch on and suffer from.
Ques What is the thought in some getting a surname?
JT I think it is the mind of the Lord to distinguish [p. 163] them, because there are distinctions — so that Peter is always first.
G What is the thought in the sons of thunder?
JT It is remarkable that John should be called one. Some take it to be objectionable, but I do not think it would be mentioned in this way if it were.
I think it must be spiritual power. Elihu speaks of the thunder of God’s power.
AH Do you think John’s ministry in Revelation would have a bearing like that?
JT It might. Thunder is a very overwhelming thing.
AH Might it mean the very definite assertion of the mind of the Lord?
JT It might. In Job 37 Elihu says, “my heart trembleth at this also”, and he speaks of lightning and “God thundereth marvellously with his voice; great things doeth he, which we cannot comprehend”.
So that evidently thunder has a place in testimony.
AH Would the word in Joel have any bearing on it? It says, “Jehovah will roar from Zion”.
JT The Lord comes down in Revelation 10 and roars as a lion roars.
We have had, I think, the general thought in the first scripture. Then the second scripture refers to the return of the servants. It says they are gathered together to Jesus — a very beautiful touch — and related to Him all things. They rightly put the doing before the teaching. It says in the Acts that “Jesus began both to do and to teach”. Doing would be more general and the teaching would confirm what was done, because if there is no practice, the teaching cannot be effective.
HL Would the thought of the word ‘apostles’ here suggest that they had been qualified?
JT This is very clear. They are not called apostles in John at all. Paul says, “Am I not an apostle?” but they are not ministering here. They [p. 164] are gathered together to Jesus and have the sense of need of coming to Him and telling Him what they are doing. It is a good thing after an address to go to the Lord and tell Him what you have done and said. You will be sure, if you are honest, to say what a poor effort and you would like to do better and He would make you do better next time. That is how progress is made.
Rem It is a remarkable thing that, although they went out two by two, there is nothing to adjust between them as they come back together to Jesus.
JT They were separated in their service but they related all that they had done to the Lord, and they would all be there. He probably would have to correct them and they would all get the gain of it, but here it is to bring out how true they were to their commission.
FI Each gets the benefit of the adjustment of each as being together.
JT That is it. You can understand He would not send them all out on one day. There is careful deliberation. Mark says He is sitting at the right hand of God. It is a deliberate position. So that these were sent out two by two, but as they come back to Jesus, it would be very interesting to hear them tell what they had done and how they had done it. They would learn from one another for the Lord would not let anything pass.
AHH Would they return in the gain of the companionship of Christ?
JT Yes, and then they would have the companionship of one another. That is important also, although we may go out one by one — but we are told two are better than one.
AH Do you think that great importance should be attached to the desert place?
JT Quite so. There is nothing of the world there. The service of the Lord precludes all sightseeing [p. 165] and that sort of thing. It is not a sideline. The work of the Lord is exclusive of all, never a sideline. It is to be carried out by itself. I have to earn my living — that is another thing.
FI It is not to be part levite, part tourist.
JT You can see that here. It says they went away into a desert place by ship and many saw them going and recognised them. Part-tourist would almost disguise a levite. If you had tourist clothes on you would be hardly recognised as a minister of Christ.
LM Would this show that we are to have sympathy in one another’s service?
JT I think that. It would be a learning time. There is nothing to divert you at all in the desert. There might be hardship in a desert, but apparently there was not here. It is a resting place. In telling the Lord you would get good, and if anything is not just right I would get the benefit of your adjustment.
LM Peter related in Acts 12 how the Lord had been operative and he asked them to relate it to others also. Is there not a necessity for affectionate sympathy among the Lord’s servants in view of all that which the Lord is doing?
JT In Acts 4 it was more evident. Peter and John return after the sufferings. The early chapters of Acts are like Peter and John chapters but in chapter 4 they come to their own company and relate the things that have happened to them and then there is prayer, and the apostles have increased power after the prayer. The prayer shows how subject they were.
HL Is there any particular reason why Mark refers to this after the beheading and burial of John the baptist?
JT It suggests suffering. Something very solemn indeed had happened to John the forerunner of Christ. I suppose that would enter into the moment. If anything happens in this way — anything of a [p. 166] solemn nature happening to one of the Lord’s servants, it should sober us, especially if we may have known him.
M Is this being called apart and resting in view of maintaining the tone in the service?
JT I feel it is. We get jaded and fagged spiritually if we do not get some rest. We have to lie fallow in the presence of great things and absorb them. The environment is full of rich thoughts for us to absorb and become more fruitful. The Lord does not say ‘go and rest’. He says “come”. They would have a very interesting time.
R Is there any link with Matthew 11, “Take my yoke upon you”?
JT There is. “Learn from me” — that is as a Model and He is teaching all that He is Himself: “I am meek and lowly in heart”.
WL He says, “Give ye them to eat”.
JT They are scarcely ready for that service.
They should be, but it is very touching that the Lord thinks of us in that way. Perhaps we forget too often and do too much and become stale in our ministry.
Finally the passage in 1 Samuel shows in type how the Lord is over us in the work — as President, as Samuel is called. It is a unique passage in this sense and the great effectiveness of the service is seen.
How powerful the prophesying was! It was told Saul that David was at Naioth and he sent messengers to take David and they saw the company of the prophets and Samuel as president over them and the Spirit of God came upon the messengers of Saul and they also prophesied, so that the enemy’s messengers have been absorbed, themselves taking part in the service — there is remarkable power under the presidency of Samuel.
AH Is this like the power to heal diseases?
JT Well, it is. The enemy’s messengers are taken on in the service and are actually in it. It is a [p. 167] great triumph. Jehu said to the messengers of the king of Israel, “Turn thee behind me”. The enemy’s servants became part of Jehu’s cavalcade, God taking over the enemy’s workers. It is a great matter because you will bring down the enemy’s power in that way.
AH This all depends upon the presidency of Christ?
JT That is what I was thinking. He intends to be in the way in which He has them on the mountain and then in the desert to rest awhile. This is all unifying. Now they are all working under His control and it is most successful. They want the enemy’s messengers absorbed in this system of things and even the enemy himself is overpowered. We are under the influence of Christ.
FI I was wondering if we could not apply this to our meetings for prophetic ministry. You would be under the presidency of the Lord and there might be that amongst us which needs adjustment, and this would be overcome by the ministry.
JT Yes, take the thought of the first one mentioned in 1 Corinthians 14. If an unbeliever comes in he is convicted and judged and falls down and worships God. He is renouncing the enemy and recognising God amongst His people.
EH Things are secured in each of our localities if these things are worked out. We would desire this to be worked out in each locality so that the whole locality is affected.
JT So that cases which we have to deal with are not left. Of course there are incurables. We read of Homes for incurables — very humbling. There is power to heal diseases; why cannot I get it in a spiritual sense?
HL Are you suggesting that this kind of presidency would entail the truth of a system that will never come [p. 168] down?
JT I think that is it. You can see the most murderous man, after all his servants coming, he comes himself — not to get under the power of it but to take David, but he comes under the power of it.
This is the system we are brought into.
HL We used to be afraid of the word ‘system’, but we have come into a system; Christ is the Head of the system.
P God has been working that He might undo the works of the devil.
JT That is it, so that it is very humbling if we cannot deal with cases.
M Is that why it says in 1 Corinthians 13, “Love never fails”, and in chapter 14, “Follow after love, and be emulous ... that ye may prophesy”?
AH It is very exercising what you say about incurables.
JT Very exercising for those classed as such.
AH Would Saul be one of them?
JT I think so. It is said of him, Is Saul also amongst the prophets? But it is a derision — he is the same as ever. He is not in it in a spiritual way.
It is terrible not to be curable. It is because my will is working. Why have the physicians no balm?
It may be in them and it may be in me. In all probability in me.
Ques The enemy is very persistent — he sends three times.
JT God is more persistent. Christ is in heaven and the Holy Spirit down here — there is infinite power.
SK Does Paul fit in here — persecuting the assembly and then being overcome by the power of it?
JT A very good illustration of what we are saying. Saul was breathing out threatenings and slaughter but the Lord brought him down. He did not destroy him, He cured [p. 169] him.
AL Stephen says he saw Jesus standing at the right hand of God.
JT There He is ready for service. We have spoken of Him as sitting, which would be more permanency or careful consideration, but when Stephen sees Him He is standing, and at the end of the scripture He is ready to serve. He brings Saul down. Paul says later on to the Lord, ‘When Thy martyr Stephen was stoned I was holding the clothes’. He calls Stephen a martyr in speaking to the Lord Jesus — a very touching matter.
C What are we to learn from the great well?
JT I suppose it suggests the Spirit. It is used in this way from the outset. Hagar is the first reference. It was the Spirit of God in freshness. It is mentioned several times — Hagar, and Isaac himself is seen coming from the well when Rebecca is coming to him and Saul should have been reminded. If he had read the Scriptures he would know. I think it is remarkable about this well. With Hagar it was not that God had not provided for her. She had not seen the well but it was God’s provision. Isaac is seen in relation to it later, showing it is the Spirit, so that we as saints in the assembly are supported by this refreshment. Saul is incapable of taking it in.
EH There is grace for recovery in the saints, but if a person is not recovered, would you say that God is not granting repentance for some reason?
JT It may be. It does not seem that Hagar is ever restored yet God is certainly looking after her and her son and the well is very strikingly connected with faith. Saul is a similar case.
G In connection with sin unto death it is said that request should not be made for that.
JT Very good. John saying request is not to be made for him shows the attitude towards such a one, but James says, If any one is sick, let him call the elders of the assembly and they shall pray for him [p. 170] and the prayer of faith shall heal the sick; and if he have committed sins they shall be forgiven. That is the other side. There is power in the assembly. James gives us the gracious side and the residence of power in the elders.
AH Does that show some movement on the part of the one who sins?
JT That is it. The thing is how to get right. If he has a disease, how is he to get cured, not that we do not need cures from the divine side, but James says let him send for the elders of the assembly.
AL Do you think these two elements are necessary in all our meetings? I thought that David and Samuel would supply power in our companies — David in the way of the kingdom and Samuel, it says, judged Israel all the days of his life.
JT I think David would represent the kingdom of Christ and Samuel would be prophet here. So that Christ is Prophet, Priest and King.
G What is the connection between the sick man asking for the elders of the assembly in his faith and the faith of those who bore the paralytic man to Jesus?
JT One is individual but the other is the saints having sympathy to pray for him. We carry to Christ now as praying for persons. Not only that some have sympathy but it is universal.
HL Is this typically the Lord’s own house?
JT Just so. He dwelt in Capernaum so that it represents the house of service.