OBJECTIVE AND SUBJECTIVE TRUTH
OBJECTIVE AND SUBJECTIVE TRUTH
JT This psalm furnishes an opportunity to consider what is called objective truth and the corresponding subjective. The first is in verses 1 - 6 and the second from verse 7 to the end. The first obviously is objective because it treats of things that are in heaven, or in the heavens, whereas we are on the earth. From verse 7 on to the end, we have the work of God’s Spirit in us, in the saints, and the working out in the law, that is, in the word of God — the ideas of the law, the testimony, the precepts, the fear and the judgments of God — all point to the word of God which operates in us. It is presented as valued, as appreciated, as occasioning joy; the psalm, therefore, affords a remarkable combination as illustrated in the saints in all times and in all places normally.
GVD There should be a complete correspondence between what is objective and what is subjective; and is not that the present service of the Holy Spirit, to bring that about in the saints?
JT That is what I thought we should see. There is correspondence in the saints with what is above, the Spirit being here. He came down from above knowing everything, and knows how to affect us so as to bring about correspondence.
APT The Lord Jesus in heaven — is that known objectively, the work of the Spirit here making it good in our souls subjectively?
JT That is what is presented in the psalm. We read that He was seen going into heaven: “This Jesus who has been taken up from you into heaven, shall thus come in the manner in which ye have beheld him going into heaven”, Acts 1: 11. In the meantime He is received above, as it is said, “Whom [p. 332] heaven indeed must receive till the times of the restoring of all things”, Acts 3: 21. But then the Spirit is needed here to enable us to know Him. In Luke it is said He was parted from them before He was received up. He was parted from them, but the Holy Spirit had not yet come. But now that He has come, we are linked up with the Lord and, of course, Paul’s doctrine is available to us; but primarily this psalm is Christ in heaven and we here.
CN Would you tell us the difference between the heavens and the expanse? “The heavens declare the glory of God; and the expanse sheweth the work of his hands” (verse 1).
JT If you go back to Genesis 1, we can obviously make a connection there. We are told, “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth”. Not heaven simply, but the heavens. How many there are, we cannot say, but there is nothing said about the expanse in that verse, so that the expanse was something additional. That is, when the creation began to take form, as we have it, in the second day, it is said in verse 6: “And God said, Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it be a division between waters and waters. And God made the expanse, and divided between the waters that are under the expanse and the waters that are above the expanse; and it was so. And God called the expanse Heavens”. The word ‘expanse’ may be ‘firmament’, but ‘expanse’ is more accurate and more expressive. It means something spread out or opened out, but it was additional to the word ‘heavens’ in verse 1; and therefore it would be seen that waters were above it and waters below it; not in the ordinary sense of heaven but what we might call the atmospheric condition. The lights are said to be there, too; therefore, we have in the expanse something adjacent to us in which God is operating in [p. 333] physical relations.
CN That is verse 14.
JT “And God said, Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens”. They are not said here to have been created. The lights were just there. It would be as if they were adapted. They would be there before undoubtedly, but in the new conditions that this chapter contemplates they would be adapted and made to shine, although they are not spoken of at first. God said, “Let there be light. And there was light” (verse 3). We are not told from whence they came, but in the fourth day we have these bodies. It is quite interesting to compare these great things near to us, and then to consider what we go to. Paul went to the third heaven, very different apparently; and Ephesians and Hebrews say Christ went beyond all heavens. So that they evidently open up an immense range of thought; but it is the expanse you have in your mind. We have both here. “The heavens declare the glory of God” (verse 1). That is what is alluded to in Genesis. Then the expanse is what we have already spoken of, created in the second day.
WWM In Solomon’s prayer he speaks of the heaven of heavens. What does he mean by that?
JT That is left indefinite. It is not easy to say, but he speaks of it in a negative way: it cannot contain God. So that God Himself in His infinite Being is outside of that, according to verse 1 of Genesis. He made the heavens and the earth. They were all created, but where God is in His infinite Being is beyond that. We have to leave that. He dwells in light unapproachable.
WWM Would the universe be the whole creation, including heaven and every created thing?
JT Quite so. The word means that. It includes everything but it does not include God or His abode, because it is infinite. He is outside the range of creation. He is the Creator and will come into what [p. 334] is created, but He was before that. Therefore, what can we say? We have to leave that.
WWM Is it proper then to have in your thoughts the universe as the whole created sphere in which God is operating so as to fill it all to His eternal pleasure?
JT That is the way to look at it. So that ‘universe’ is not outside of Scripture. It is not used literally in Scripture, but the thought of it is there, and “all things” is equivalent to ‘universe’. The Son made all things; Colossians 1: 13 - 16. “He who has built all things is God”, Hebrews 3:4. That is a phrase in Scripture. That would mean God made the universe.
FHL Peter speaks of Him who made the new heavens, but this is not that.
JT This is the heavens we are having to do with. We are told the heavens are to be consumed, the whole universe in that physical sense; but then there is that which we can hardly speak of as physical. The higher we get the more attenuated our thought is. The Lord Jesus is said to have passed beyond all the heavens. We cannot include where He is as touchable by anything.
AR You are talking about the created sphere. Is that the idea? What is created is to be removed.
JT Quite so. We are told there is to be a new heaven and a new earth.
VCL Would this represent heaven as it appears to a christian today? If you are capable of taking on impressions, this is what comes before your soul in connection with the link we have with heaven.
JT That is what I hope we shall be able to link on with. “The heavens declare the glory of God; and the expanse sheweth the work of his hands”. We have to go back and think of the Creator — what He had in mind and then how far we can amplify that in view of what has come out since; for the Lord Jesus in coming out from heaven has told us what is there.
So that He says, “The Son of man who is in heaven”, John 3: 13. He said that when He was down here. We, therefore, have to begin to be intelligent in what we are saying, with the primary thought of David here. We have to remember that “by his Spirit the heavens are adorned”, Job 26: 13. We have just to understand whether, in the coming in of Christ and through angelic ministry, the idea of heaven has not been greatly enlarged since Genesis, and even since the Psalms, because the Son of man who is in heaven has come down to tell us about what is there, and now He has gone up there as Man, and the Spirit has come here to tell us about Him up there.
AR Would Luke give us a clue as to what is in heaven?
JT I think he does. He speaks much of it.
AB Would Colossians fit in? “Who is image of the invisible God” (Colossians 1: 15), and Hebrews, “who being the effulgence of his glory and the expression of his substance”, Hebrews 1: 3.
JT Well, He has come down within our range and He said to Nicodemus, “If I have said the earthly things to you, and ye believe not, how, if I say the heavenly things to you, will ye believe? And no one has gone up into heaven, save he who came down out of heaven, the Son of man who is in heaven”, John 3: 12, 13. Well, it is to be hoped that we do not have to be spoken to like that. Having the Holy Spirit as believers, we ought to be able to speak about this psalm, the first part telling us about what is in heaven and the second telling us about what God has effected in our own hearts here below. The first part is connected with God, as the brethren will observe in verse 1. It is connected with God, whereas the remaining part is connected with Jehovah. The word ‘Lord’ (in A.V.) is ‘Jehovah’ from verse 7 onwards. The second part of the psalm involves the covenant that God made with His people, and their [p. 336] enjoyment of it is now what we should enter into; how they value it.
JAP Does Stephen take all this up in his address? He told them what he saw: the Son of man standing in heaven, but then he was in the enjoyment of that himself.
JT Well, he evidently was. His face shone like an angel’s, which would indicate that he had close participation in heavenly things. They saw his face as the face of an angel, which would mean he had been taking on the impress of heaven. It was on his countenance.
GH Nebuchadnezzar acknowledged that the heavens did rule. Is that what the heavens suggest to us — the idea of rule?
JT They do. They represent the idea of rule and Nebuchadnezzar had to learn that. He learned that the heavens rule, and that is what each one of us has to learn and the nations have to learn it, too.
P Do the heavens, apart from revelation, set out some feature of God?
JT I think they do. Just stop to think of what anyone could take in. For instance, the lower creatures — take a sheep or a horse or a dog — what do they know? If they looked up to heaven what would they say about it? What could we say about the heavens by what we see? Of course, we see certain movements and, no doubt, the natural mind of man can take in something of those movements, but what could we take in intelligibly about it without some teaching from God? And, therefore, I would say that God, in forming man, began to teach him. He did not leave him to himself to learn. He began to teach him; so that we are told in the New Testament, quoting from the Old, “they shall be all taught of God”, John 6:45. However clever we might be, what could we say about what is visible in the heavens unless we are somewhat taught of God?
P I was thinking of Romans. “Because, knowing God, they glorified him not as God”, Romans 1: 21. In what sense would the apostle speak of persons knowing God apart from His revelation in Christ?
JT The allusion in Romans is to what came in after Noah; the teaching that was there from Noah onwards. So that they did not like to retain the knowledge of God. They had it, but they did not like to retain it. They had it at Babel. It was there. There was some light and some teaching, but whatever it was, they did not like to retain God in their knowledge and, therefore, He gave them up. So that the knowledge was there and they turned to idolatry. There was no idolatry before the deluge as far as Scripture shows, but there was afterwards. Therefore, I think that as soon as God made man there was something in the way of teaching. There was something in what God placed in man as He made him, and so He would bring out what He had placed in him, because He asked him to name the animals. He told Adam to name them and whatever he named them that was the name of the creature. That would indicate, I suppose, that what was in Adam was capable of taking in things; but then there had to be teaching along with that; so that we find with Enoch that his name indicates a person who is taught.
AR Was not Job converted through the presentation of the creation?
JT Quite so. He was taught; he observed.
WWM In relation to being taught of God, the Lord uses that scripture, I believe, at the time when He spoke of the bread that had come down out of heaven. The idea of heaven would have to come into our minds on the divine side, because they had said, ‘Is not this Joseph’s son?’ But we are taught of God to understand He comes out of heaven.
JT That is just the point for us now; that we [p. 338] are taught of God, and this psalm supposes that they were being taught of God. There can be no doubt that the intelligence God gave man, that is Adam, was that he was capable of taking in things, that is, by observation. But after sin came into Adam and Eve and their posterity, it was a question of whether they would have a right thought of anything unless God taught them; and God did teach them. That is what is meant by God’s first conversation with Adam and Eve, and then by what He did by making them garments. The principle of divine teaching came in at once and it is here. “They shall be all taught of God”, John 6: 45. That is the point for us this afternoon, as to whether we are taught of God or not. “The heavens declare the glory of God; and the expanse sheweth the work of his hands”.
CN So that Abel’s action in the kind of sacrifice he offered to Jehovah would prove that he may have had some teaching which corresponded with what happened in the garden with his parents.
JT It would look that way. It says in chapter 4: 3: “And in process of time it came to pass that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering to Jehovah. And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock, and of their fat”. Well now, where did Cain get this suggestion to bring something, and then where did Abel get the suggestion to bring something?
Cain had some suggestion, but he was defective. He did not do what was right, whereas Abel did. It is said, “Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock, and of their fat. And Jehovah looked upon Abel, and on his offering; and upon Cain, and on his offering, he did not look”. Cain brought of the fruit of the ground, but Abel brought of the firstlings of his flock, which is a nice touch. It does not appear that there was any idea in Cain of possessing anything, but there was in Abel. I would say, therefore, there was some suggestion of teaching in Abel. He did [p. 339] what was right. He observed what he saw in his father and his mother; the kind of clothes they wore and whence they came and how they were made.
WCR Would it appear in Isaiah 28 that God teaches a farmer how to plough and how to sow?
JT I am sure that is all very suggestive, and how wide it must be. If you think of the lower creatures from man down, how much there was to learn in themselves, and how they were to do things; so that God stood by them, I would say, covering that word, “They shall be all taught of God”. So that even a farmer is taught of God and he learns that if he puts a certain grain in the ground it will come up of that kind and God has to do with it, because He gives it a body as it pleases Him.
VCL Is the psalmist in the good of what he writes here, or is he writing prophetically, awaiting the incoming of the Spirit for the real knowledge of this to take hold of our souls?
JT That is the way I would take it. David, of course, was instructed. He had the Spirit himself, indeed. He says, “Take not the spirit of thy holiness from me” (Psalm 51: 11), alluding to the pattern he had of the temple. He said he had all the features of the temple, by the Spirit, so that he was taught himself, and he would look up at the heavens in a different way from what an astronomer would look up at them. I can imagine that David would say in looking at the heavens, God garnished these heavens. He adorned them by His Spirit. He would view them from that point of view.
AR As looking at the sun, it would suggest Christ.
JT That is the thing I thought we might come to, that the first six verses involve the type of Christ. It says, “Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge”. There is no speech and yet their voice is heard. There is a silent voice,
as it were, in the heavens. “There is no speech and there are no words, yet their voice is heard. Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their language to the extremity of the world”. The great line implies where they start, where the thought begins. And they have a language. “In them hath he set a tent for the sun”. Now we come to Christ. “And he is as a bridegroom going forth from his chamber; he rejoiceth as a strong man to run the race. His going forth is from the end of the heavens, and his circuit unto the ends of it; and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof”. That is the end of the objective side, and the end is in Christ in the type. That is, in the sun.
AR Everything is under the influence of the sun.
JT Just so.
FHL One can see the need for the solemn warning about worshipping the heavenly bodies when they are so glorious. We must look beyond the creation to the Creator.
JT Just so. If God were working with a man he would begin to reason that way. There must be more than I see.
E I suppose man in his natural state comes short of all these things.
JT Scientific men know much more than we do in a certain way, but they do not know anything spiritually. That is what we are here for this afternoon, to get a spiritual thought.
AB Would John 1 fit in? “And the light appears in darkness, and the darkness apprehended it not” (verse 5). “But as many as received him, to them gave he the right to be children of God” (verse 12). There are those that take it on objectively.
JT In that passage it says, “He was in the world, and the world had its being through him, and the world knew him not” (verse 10). The word ‘world’ would include the heavens as well as the earth, because [p. 341] it means ornamentation or order. The Lord was the Author of it all, but it did not know Him, meaning morally that darkness had come in and they did not know anything right. They did not know the Creator Himself.
GVD Would you say the magi in Matthew, having seen His star in the east, and coming to worship Him, were moving on spiritual lines?
JT That will help us to reach the next part, because they were on the line of worship, and that is what you get in verse 7 onwards. They did not have the Scriptures as far as we know, but they had seen His star. They knew that it was His star, showing that God was operating in them. The subjective side was there. Take those men — we are not told how many of them there were. They were probably astronomers by profession, but they saw His star. That would be a great objective idea. They saw it; it appeared at a certain time, and it ceased to appear, so that it directed their view, because they had gotten out of the way. They needed the subjective to keep in the way of the star. They represent the second part of the psalm. They went to Jerusalem and the star was not there. The second part is the law or the Scriptures. They might have stayed in their own country and gazed up at the star and enjoyed the thought of it. The word ‘His’ is there: “his star”. They communed together undoubtedly, because something was happening in their souls. How did they know?
The heavens themselves did not tell them. “His star”. It is the Messiah’s star; the star of the King of the Jews. Now, they came a long way, and I think we might fit in from verse 7 to the end of the psalm here with their long journey, because they required the law; they required that principle. “The law of Jehovah is perfect, restoring the soul; the testimony of Jehovah is sure, making wise the simple” (verse 7). There would be something like that going on in their [p. 342] souls; something corresponding with what they saw objectively in the star.
AR In verse 7 you have wise men: “making wise the simple”.
JT Just so. They were becoming wise. That is what I think we might get to here, what corresponds with the subjective side in beginning with verse 7.
TH “Night unto night sheweth knowledge”. You would be impressed with the peculiar grace afforded through the night in order to find knowledge. Our night seasons are often disturbed and we should gain from them in receiving knowledge. There is something God has for us in the night season.
JT That helps us as to the wise men. Had they stayed in their own land and communed about what they saw, there would be a certain amount of enjoyment, but they were not content with that. They came to the west to see the King of the Jews. They wanted to see Him, and they talked about Him on their way. What did they say? And when they came to Jerusalem they made inquiry. I think they would, in principle, begin to see what the psalm means from verse 7 onwards. That is to say, for instance, the word ‘knowledge’. “The law of Jehovah is perfect, restoring the soul; the testimony of Jehovah is sure, making wise the simple; the precepts of Jehovah are right, rejoicing the heart; the commandment of Jehovah is pure, enlightening the eyes; the fear of Jehovah is clean, enduring for ever; the judgments of Jehovah are truth, they are righteous altogether they are more precious than gold, yea, than much fine gold; and sweeter than honey and the dropping of the honeycomb” (verses 7 - 10). Well, it seems to me as if these men from the east would begin to see something of these things. Though they did not give the right names, the Spirit of God was working in their souls and if He is not working in our souls we will not get much help from this psalm, but if He is [p. 343] we will.
WCR The apostle wrote to Corinth and says, “Thus there is not a wise person among you”, 1 Corinthians 6: 5. Is that a strong rebuke?
JT That is good negatively. This thought is that we should be marked by wisdom. As has been already said, “The testimony of Jehovah is sure, making wise the simple”. Why should we be unwise as professing to be christians?
FHL There seem to be six great features shining out there. It would take the day of the Spirit to bring out the perfect seven.
JT It is now a question of what the Spirit works in us, so that the book of Acts is, as it were, a counter part of the gospels and then the epistles. The book of Acts and the epistles correspond to the second part of this psalm. Christ is in heaven according to the first part of it, but the second part involves the Spirit here working these things out in us.
JAP Is that why in Revelation 22 it says, “And the Spirit and the bride say, Come” (verse 17)? Is that an answer to verse 5 of this psalm — the bridegroom? There has been a subjective work in us.
JT Just so. I believe the Spirit enables us to grasp the idea of the bridegroom. John the baptist had it. He had it before Paul brought it out. He says, “He that has the bride is the bridegroom”,
John 3: 29. The bridegroom would be the first part of this psalm, but the bride would be seen in the working out of the second part. John the baptist had the idea of the bride. If there is a bridegroom there must be a bride, and Paul brings in the bride, but John the baptist had the idea.
P How would Acts 27 bear on what you have before you? Paul on his way to Rome experienced a storm on the ship and neither sun nor stars appeared. There were no objective lights, as you were remarking. They had to go by some other means.
JT Paul says, “For an angel of the God, whose [p. 344] I am and whom I serve, stood by me this night” (verse 23). There were neither sun nor stars. There were no objective guides during the storm, but Paul was not without a Guide and that is the second part here. There is a time comes when the believer comes to the idea of the Spirit, walking by the Spirit; not simply by the objective of heaven but by the Spirit, and John’s epistles work that out for us.
AR There are four parts affected by the truth the soul, the heart, the mind and the eye. Wisdom is for the mind.
JT These things help us. The psalmist says, “even in the nights my reins instruct me”, Psalm 16: 7. How can that be explained? They are not the heavens; they are the inwards of a christian in which the Spirit operates and instruction is there; guidance is there. “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God”, Romans 8: 14. That is, the Spirit of God in the person. It is not the Spirit of God in heaven. It is the Spirit of God down here that leads.
AR Verses 7 and 8 are what is going on in the believer.
JT Just so. What guidance you get yourself from your inwards. It must correspond with what is objective, but still we must learn to make way for the Spirit.
CN Referring to the magi, they seem to have made progress after finding out exactly where the Lord was to be born. It says in Matthew 2: 11, “And having come into the house they saw the little child with Mary his mother, and falling down did him homage. And having opened their treasures, they offered to him gifts, gold, and frankincense, and myrrh. And being divinely instructed in a dream ...”
JT They have now not come to the star, although the star was there; it hovered over them; but they [p. 345] came to the Person. That is exactly what the Holy Spirit does to us to lead us to Christ.
CN Our activities thus are suitable, involved in these gifts and their worship of Him.
JT They had them with them. All that fits in with the second part of this psalm, so that when we come to the assembly to carry on and have part in the service of God, the objective must be with us. We look for the Lord to come to us. He comes out of His chamber. That is all objective; and He rejoices as a strong man to run a race. He moves on the first day of the week among the gatherings. All that is objective and that is what is needed. The second part of this psalm is that we have the inward teachings and feelings and affections. These come in directly from heaven, but by the Spirit operating in us. There are nine different fruits of the Spirit mentioned in the epistle to the Galatians, and these do not come directly from heaven. The fruit is here. It is effected by the operation of the Spirit in our hearts, and that is what the Lord comes to, as it were. He knows where that is and it attracts Him. The idea of the Lord as a strong Man coming out of His chamber is all an objective thought.
CN Verse 10 is experience. “They are more precious than gold, yea, than much fine gold; and sweeter than honey and the dropping of the honeycomb”.
JT That is the way it works out; so that the assembly is precious to Christ. He looks for something there. The Spirit has affected her and He comes to where that is. That is how the truth works out in the service of God.
VCL While the first position is objective, would you ever have the sense of the bridegroom in you livingly unless you have been through the second portion of this psalm?
JT That is just what I was thinking. The Lord [p. 346] would help us to look into it more carefully, as to what the Lord comes to as the Bridegroom. What He comes to; what is in His mind. It is all a great objective thought from our side. He is looking for what is in us which we may speak of as the subjective; that is, the fruit of the Spirit. We have room for expressions here; the restoring of the soul and the testimony sure making wise the simple. “The precepts of Jehovah are right, rejoicing the heart”.
These all contemplate richness in us. “The fear of Jehovah is clean, enduring for ever; the judgments of Jehovah are truth, they are righteous altogether they are more precious than gold, yea, than much fine gold; and sweeter than honey and the dropping of the honeycomb”. These are all rich thoughts, and the Lord knows where they are. It is the Spirit of God that effects them in us, and the Lord comes to us in that connection.
APT Are they not positive; not so much corrective but positive operations of the Spirit of God in us?
JT Just so. The precious positiveness of the testimony or the word of God effected and operated on by the Spirit.
APT “He restoreth my soul”, Psalm 23: 3. It is more how the Spirit of God is operating in us.
JT It does not really mean you have gone astray.
It is more the idea of replenishment. We are set up afresh.
Ques Are all these things contemplated in John 14 in connection with what the Lord said about the coming of the Spirit as the result of His ascension?
JT It depends on that. The Lord had all this in mind when He said, “And I will beg the Father, and he will give you another Comforter, that he may be with you for ever, the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see him nor know him; but ye know him, for he abides with [p. 347] you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you orphans, I am coming to you”, John 14: 16 - 18. And then again He says, “Because I live ye also shall live” (verse 19). All these depend on the Spirit’s coming in.
AR He came to where the disciples were. The doors were shut for fear of the Jews.
JT The Lord had in mind just what we are saying. The Lord had that in mind, but how much more so in His ministry and teaching.
AB “We being assembled to break bread”,
Acts 20: 7. They are moving in the Spirit’s power and the understanding of the law of Jehovah.
JT The chapter contemplates the rich state of things at Ephesus; not that the chapter contemplates Ephesus only, but it is full of love, full of affection from the beginning to the end; and that is the idea of the assembly. The Lord comes to that.
TH The first fruit of the Spirit is love and the last fruit is self-control. I was wondering if what lies in between would help us in that way to consider these precious features in our souls so that we see that we have some of them shining out.
JT That explains the admiring language which the Lord uses as to the second person, the feminine person, in the Canticles. What He describes in His admiring language really is the fruit of the Spirit; what the Spirit effects in us.
FHL You spoke of the riches here. Do you think the apostle had something of this in mind in Romans: “O depth of riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God!” chapter 11: 33?
JT You are impressed in Romans with the doxologies. They refer to the richness of the Spirit’s work in the saints. You get one at the beginning of the book and then you get that one which you allude to, and one in the last chapter, too. It is the overflowing of the Spirit in a believer; and, of course, the Lord values that and comes [p. 348] to that.
AR Why is it so difficult to control the tongue?
JT You mean that the speaking is silenced? I would say the speaking is silenced. Control is a necessary thing with us, especially in the assembly, that I do not admit anything that is unsuitable to the assembly. There is much that could be used elsewhere legally, but not in the assembly; it is the power of self-control and enables me to confine myself to what the Lord values.
TEH The psalmist ends up with a wonderful suggestion of self-control: “Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in thy sight, O Jehovah, my rock, and my redeemer” (verse 14), as if he would silence them in the sanctuary.
JT Very good. “Never man spoke thus, as this man speaks”, John 7: 46. The Spirit of God effects that sort of thing with us. We know what to say to the Lord and to the Father, too, in the assembly.
ANW In relation to what you have been saying as to what comes to us by the Spirit, would you say something as to those who have heard the Father Himself? It follows what we referred to earlier in John 6. It is the coming to the Lord.
JT So the Father prepares us really for that. On the other hand, the Son prepares us for the Father, so that there is mutual workmanship in us in that way. The Lord says, “the men whom thou gavest me”, John 17: 6. He says that to His Father and then on the other hand, He brought the men to His Father, too; He brought one after another to the Father.
CN Does the end of the psalm suggest there is ever the need of self-judgment?
JT Just so. Beginning with verse 12 it says, “Who understandeth his errors? Purify me from secret faults. Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be perfect, and I shall be innocent [p. 349] from great transgression. Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in thy sight, O Jehovah, my rock, and my redeemer”. These are all wholesome, as you might say, cogitations in the believer as to what we have had. How great the need for balance and my comparing spiritual with spiritual so that we know where to say things and where not to say them. “Presumptuous sins” are so apt to arise with us. “Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins”.
APT There seems to be the thought of order as we had at Montreal and elsewhere — one, two, three in this chapter.
JT Quite so; learning in order. Paul proceeded on those lines in his letters to Corinth and stressed the idea of directions; and the instructions generally are in the order of one, two, three. So that he said, “For I did not judge it well to know anything among you save Jesus Christ, and him crucified”, 1 Corinthians 2: 2. That would be number one in his mind, so to speak. And then in speaking to the Ephesians he would have them understand his knowledge of the mystery. He kept back nothing from them.
GVD God is not the author of confusion. I was thinking of what is said in Isaiah. We learn line upon line and precept upon precept. Is there not the fulfilling of order in that?
JT Just so.
C Speaking of presumptuous sins, when Peter would discourage the Lord from going to the cross — he said, “This shall in no wise be unto thee”. Would that be presumptuous sin? The Lord says, “Get away behind me, Satan”, Matthew 16: 22, 23.
JT It was presumptuous for him to say to the Lord, “This shall in no wise be unto thee”. It was an implied rebuke to the Lord. Very presumptuous, surely, and sinful; so bad that He called him Satan.
WWM Would the secret faults be more connected [p. 350] with natural aspirations that might not belong to others? The Lord asked them what they were speaking about on the way and they were talking about who should be the greatest. That is something in a person’s mind that has to be rigorously judged.
JT Think of something like that coming up in the assembly! A brother might get up to speak and speak well and I might be jealous of him. So these closing verses are very salutary. “Who understandeth his errors?” They might be there and you do not discern that they are so bad.
JAP Paul says, “I am conscious of nothing in myself; but I am not justified by this: but he that examines me is the Lord”, 1 Corinthians 4: 4.
AR Is it by the Spirit that you discover what is going on in the heart?
JT Quite so.
TEH Would it be right to say that the greatest declaration of love in the Supper discloses the awful ness of what is in my heart? The idea of rivalry may come in at the Supper, and we need to pay attention to the word you have quoted us, to be able to see what is inside and be free from these thoughts.
JT These closing verses are intended to sober us as to our part in the services, so that we do not grieve the Lord, or grieve the Spirit, in the thoughts and meditations of our heart. “Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in thy sight, O Jehovah, my rock, and my redeemer”.
APT Isaac was ready for the subjective side. He was meditating in the field. He was ready for the bride.
JT It presents a beautiful scene as Rebecca was arriving; that is, the assembly typically. He was coming from going to the well at Lahai-roi. He was, as it were, going and coming back, suggestive of the Spirit. That is, it is from the Spirit we get all right thoughts. That is where he was when Rebecca was [p. 351] arriving. And then Rebecca knew what to do, so that at the end of Genesis 24 we have arrived, typically, at a most spiritual scene. How the Lord was seen typically in Isaac meditating in the fields in relation to the well; and then Rebecca, it is said, sprang off the camel, meaning also the Spirit; not for the understanding but for power and freshness.
P At the Supper, the Lord put all of them to self-searching. Why did He not point out Judas from the eleven?
JT That is a good word. Why did He not?
Are you alluding to the end of John 6?
P I was thinking of the time when they were together and the Lord said that one of them would betray Him.
JT That was at the Supper.
P He did not put Judas out then and I was inquiring why He did not.
JT Is it not the principle that we are all searched by a challenge like that? “One of you”. Each one would be challenged inwardly as to whether he might be capable of betraying the Lord; a very wholesome thing, too, because when we consider what such a man as Peter did and a man like David did, we should each of us be challenged as to our capabilities, and hence this prayer: “Who understandeth his errors? Purify me from secret faults. Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me; then shall I be perfect, and I shall be innocent from great transgression”. It seems to me these verses fit in in relation to your question.
P They do.
FHL Peter in Acts 10 would be separate in connection with what was clean and unclean.
JT Just so. He was not equal to the moment. He was not equal to what was presented to him. In fact, he was really judging the gentiles unfairly and [p. 352] no doubt he arrived at that later. But, ‘No’, he said, ‘nothing common or unclean has come into my mouth’; ultimately meaning he abhorred a gentile. He had to learn to judge that. He said to Cornelius later when he came to his house, when he was adjusted, in Acts 10: 34, “Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons, but in every nation he that fears him and works righteousness is acceptable to him”. You can see he is adjusted now, but earlier he would not say that. He would not sit down with a gentile. He would not be damaged by him. But now he says, “I perceive that God is no respecter of persons, but in every nation he that fears him and works righteousness is acceptable to him”. So that there are many instances of that in the Scriptures; how brethren are adjusted even on the spot, and the need of being ready for adjustment as it is needed — to be ready for it.
E I suppose what we see in Peter here is the national barrier being removed.
JT Exactly. It is said in verse 11, “And he beholds the heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending, as a great sheet, bound by the four corners and let down to the earth; in which were all the quadrupeds and creeping things of the earth, and the fowls of the heaven. And there was a voice to him, Rise, Peter, slay and eat”. And Peter said, “In no wise, Lord”. This is the point I was thinking of; how this had to be judged in him. He says, “I have never eaten anything common or unclean. And there was a voice again the second time to him, What God has cleansed, do not thou make common. And this took place thrice”, showing what pains were taken to adjust the servant so that he might open the door gracefully and righteously to the gentiles. And then it is said, “But as Peter continued pondering over the vision, the Spirit said to him, Behold, three men seek thee; but rise up, go down, and go with them, nothing doubting, because I have sent them”. So [p. 353] that God answered the matter in sending these men, and the whole matter is clarified. “Go with them, nothing doubting”.
AR Respect of persons is a very bad thing.
JT I thought this psalm, looking at it as we have done, would help us as to the service of God, and especially as to the Lord coming in amongst us. He is represented as a strong Man to run a race, the idea of the sun extending back to Genesis. God Himself is mentioned as “like a mighty man that shouteth aloud by reason of wine”, Psalm 78: 65. Now we have the strong Man in Jesus; the Bridegroom going out of His chamber to run a race. That is, to be with the assembly, to meet with us. And then the second part of the psalm fits us for the meeting, so that He has nothing to complain about in us but enjoys being with us.
VCL Did you have in mind any thought of falling short? God could use the psalm as a yardstick to find out on which part we have been deficient, whether it be the objective, or the working out of the truth, or the ability to search ourselves inwardly in the power of the Spirit.
JT So that one challenges oneself and discovers whether he is really applying the truth or whether it is merely mental.
APT Paul says, “Let your heart also expand itself”, 2 Corinthians 6: 13. That would be in the full light of love.
JT “But for an answering recompense, (I speak as to children,) let your heart also expand itself”.
GVD It is very salutary to consider what our brother has just said. There is comfort for us in considering that in difficulties the Spirit and the bride will say, “Come”, which would be the complete and final answer to the bridegroom’s coming out of His chamber.
JT It will be the real physical coming of the [p. 354] Lord. This is His spiritual coming. We cannot say He comes corporeally to us in this sense. He comes by the Spirit; the Spirit being the Medium, so that He is really known amongst us.
WWM In regard to the last clause of this prayer, “Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in thy sight” — we have spoken of self-control. Do you not think that it should be a great exercise to every one of us to have our minds under control so that our thoughts when we are alone may be acceptable to God? I believe we get formation in that way.
JT That brings up another matter; that is the matter of Romans 7 that we have often referred to in meetings like this, the analytical process in that section of the chapter which really fits in with this second part of the psalm; how the believer arrives at what is within him and labels, to so speak, every item, names each thing, so that he knows and can say as Mary did, “My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit has rejoiced in God my Saviour”, Luke 1: 46, 47. You are able to say your spirit does this and your heart does that and your soul does that. That is the result of an analysis by the Spirit of what is within. Hence, one says he calls upon all that is within him. There are no impure things; everything is as we get it here.
JAP “For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the law of sin and of death”, Romans 8: 2. That is the idea. We get liberty.
JT Just so. You know now what it is; the liberating element is the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. You say, Why is it not enough to say the Spirit, or just the law? But it is the law of the Spirit of life. It is the full term of the thing.