THE SPIRIT IN RELATION TO OUR RESPONSIBILITY
[p. 171] THE SPIRIT IN RELATION TO OUR RESPONSIBILITY
Genesis 21:14 - 21; Genesis 26:23 - 33; Romans 8: 1 - 5
JT It is desired to show how the Spirit of God is seen in relation to the responsibility of christians. Hagar is thought to present those who are in responsibility, she is responsible for her son. She failed in her responsibility, as we are told: “She cast the child under one of the shrubs. And she went, and sat her down over against him a good way off, as it were a bow shot; for she said, Let me not see the death of the child. And she sat over against him, and lifted up her voice, and wept. And God heard the voice of the lad; and the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her, What aileth thee, Hagar? fear not; for God hath heard the voice of the lad where he is”, Genesis 21:15 - 17. She was giving up, casting her son under a shrub to die, that is failing in responsibility. The word is, “Arise, lift up the lad, and hold him in thine hand; for I will make him a great nation. And God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she went and filled the bottle with water, and gave the lad drink”, Genesis 21: 18, 19.
Then in Genesis 26 Isaac, the type of a believer in the position of testimony, is concerned about wells as it is essential to him in testimony, and we see how, although there was contention for the wells, he found one for which there was no contention. Then he comes to Beer-sheba and his servants came and told him they had found water; “And he called it Shebah therefore the name of the city is Beer-sheba unto this day” (Genesis 26: 33), which would mean the place of God’s faithfulness.
[p. 172] Then Romans shows how these types point us to the Spirit as the power for the righteous requirements of the law: “That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit”, Romans 8: 4.
Hagar is an outcast, hardly representing a believer in the full position of testimony, but responsible and not cast off by God, but her continuance in salvation would depend on the Spirit, she is to accept responsibility, to take up the lad who is in her charge and hold him in her hand. Her responsibility is there and the well is there to support her; responsibility does not cease with a person under discipline, she is still responsible and she is directed to take up the child and hold him in her hand. God had thoughts about him, great thoughts, and He was ready to aid him, ready to help him and her, but there must be the acceptance of the responsibility.
AH What do you take the lad to represent? Is it a question of what is potential?
JT Well, just for the moment, whatever one’s responsibility is, whatever the obligation resting upon one. Were Hagar to be challenged she would probably say much against Sarah and Abraham, too, but the point was to look after this child, which she was not doing, she cast him under a shrub and left him to die, she was not unfeeling, but still she was wanting in the acceptance of responsibility.
FI Does that correspond with the “righteous requirement of the law”? Is that our responsibility being fulfilled in the Spirit?
JT Yes, that is what I thought, the righteous requirement, not the letter of the law, but the spirit of it. Christians are exponents of it, that in which Israel failed, they must take up, because they have the power to do so in the Spirit, but this power is only realised as we accept the particular responsibility attaching to us.
ESH “I myself with the mind serve God’s law”, Romans 7: 25. Does that come into taking up your responsibility, whatever that may be?
JT Well, that is exactly what governs this passage in Romans, the believer has arrived at that point during exercise and the process of chapter 7; whatever God’s law may be bearing upon him, he serves it — a very great moral triumph.
Ques Would the woman in 2 Kings 4 be one who was exercised to fulfil her responsibility?
JT Yes, she knew where to go, she went to the right man and he told her what to do and she accepted the responsibility, she was not putting it on others. The prophet did not give her anything, the light referred to was in her own soul. The believer must see what the Holy Spirit is, how He may use me, we are to get blessings not a few and the more scope we give the Spirit, the more power there will be.
AH So it says, “God opened her eyes ... and she went and filled the flask” (verse 19).
JT Yes, and gave the lad drink.
JTM Is that why the thought of God comes in? In taking note of the position, is it to encourage us in taking up responsibility — “God heard the voice of the lad: ... And God opened her eyes ... . And God was with the lad”. Is that all encouragement God would give us to take up responsibility?
JT Very, very striking how heaven is brought in, too; she and her son were persecuting Isaac, Ishmael was mocking. It is generally the case when there has been disregard of Christ, not now in heaven, not now personally; we may speak well of Him there, but we may persecute Him in His people, the Spirit of Christ in His people may draw out our despisal and yet it is on account of that Person whom we are despising in that sense that heaven intervenes. Saul of Tarsus was persecuting Christ in His people, “Why persecutest thou me?” (Acts 9: 4); it was not Christ [p. 174] personally in heaven but Christ in His people, and that is what Ishmael was doing and yet his very life and salvation depended upon Isaac typically, for heaven is only active here in the light of Isaac having been born, Christ typically already on the scene and heaven is acting because of that. Both Hagar and Ishmael depended upon Isaac, in that sense our salvation depends upon the Christ that we are persecuting in His people. We may speak well of Christ as in heaven and yet be persecuting Him in His people and refusing to recognise Him in His people.
AH God sees to it that our eyes should be opened by the voice from heaven as to what is there.
JT That is what happens afterwards, the first thing is to take up the lad. “Arise, lift up the lad, and hold him in thine hand; for I will make him a great nation” (verse 18). God had good things in mind for him and He had heard the voice of the lad, He has His eye on the matter, but it is Hagar’s responsibility.
NKM It does not say that He heard the voice of Hagar.
JT The lad was the point, I suppose, he was Abraham’s son and he would come in for the promise because he was Abraham’s son, it is all in connection with Abraham. She was not without concern about the lad, but she left him to die; that is what happens today, do you not think, especially where people are under discipline, they go away and put the blame on others and never take it home to themselves?
NKM Reference has been made to 2 Kings 4; the woman there was very concerned about her two sons, she was accepting responsibility for them, was she not?
JT She becomes great, moving in the direction given, she pays her debts and lives on the rest, that is to say, such a one could fulfil every righteous [p. 175] obligation and the woman of Shunem continues on that, she is a great person and provides for the prophet, she is able to discern that the prophet is an holy man of God; not speaking against the saints, she values them.
Ques Would the woman of Shunem be one who saw the features of Christ in others but had no features in herself? The servant of the prophet pointed out that she had no son. “And he said, about this season, ... thou shalt embrace a son”, 2 Kings 4: 16.
JT Well, so far she had moved, you may say, in the light of Romans. She views the continuance of the widow, she becomes great spiritually through the selling of oil, that is making room for the Spirit, making use of the Spirit. She certainly has progressed and she makes room for the prophet in her house and regards him as an holy man of God, but as you say, she had no child of her own, not that she asked for one but it would seem as if that would be the normal result — as if God would grant such a feature.
Ques Is acceptance of responsibility incumbent on each one in a local company?
JT Well, each one certainly has it. Even if one is under discipline he is not relieved of his responsibility, in fact it is accentuated, and if there is that which is the object of his affection and he or she is suffering, well, it is a responsibility. Still the thing is to take on that before God and He will not fail us, even if we are under discipline and rightly under discipline. God will not fail us and it is well that Hagar was in the vicinity of Beer-sheba; it says, “she ... wandered in the wilderness” (verse 14), but still she was in the vicinity of divine faithfulness, that is what Beersheba means, whether she understood it or not, she was in that position. If one is under discipline, he comes under the faithfulness of God, the discipline may be the very expression of God’s faithfulness and it will do him good. The point is you are in the [p. 176] region of it in the wilderness of Beer-sheba, the thing is therefore to accept responsibility, not put it on others.
NKM Is that why Paul refers to the faithfulness of God on two occasions in 1 Corinthians?
JT I think so, also in the second. God is faithful at all times, wherever we are, whatever our circumstances, even if we are under discipline, God is God, especially the God of Abraham.
Rem “If we are unfaithful, he abides faithful”, 2 Timothy 2: 13.
JT Quite so.
Ques What is the connection between the faithfulness of God and the Spirit?
JT The Spirit is the means by which God carries it out, the Spirit is down here, actually, of course, God is here by the Spirit. So that I suppose it is the means whereby God carries out His faithfulness. If you are in the wilderness as Hagar was, what is more needed than water? Because the bottle had become spent. Abraham had made some provision but it was soon spent, now the well is provision. I think the thing is for all of us to make room for the Spirit, whatever the circumstances the Spirit is here and will not fail, “The Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered”, Romans 8: 26. But what is in view in the well is refreshment.
AH Do you think that God might open eyes in a meeting like this and now it becomes a question whether I am prepared to go and fill the flask?
JT Yes, that is it. Turn to God and get support in your soul; Hagar is mocking or persecuting the people of God, you may be sure where there is anything like that, that the Spirit of God is not operating in me at all, He is grieved.
AH-s Do you think the exercises of Romans 7 are alongside the wandering idea, the soul arrives at the thought that “For to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not”, Romans 7: 18?
JT Yes, the man in Romans 7 is accepting the responsibility, he has arrived at that point definitely. Hagar is not doing that, she has put Ishmael under a shrub, she is not going to die, she thought she could manage by herself.
AH-s She did not want to see him die.
JT No.
AHB Why does God answer the lad? It does not say in regard of Hagar, God heard her.
JT I think it is because he was Abraham’s son, the link is with Abraham. The promise made to Abraham stands in that relation, she is in that setting, where the promise attaches.
AHB Did God show her the well to meet the condition she was in?
JT Exactly, to meet the condition righteously. God is thinking about the lad, she is going to rob God, she is going to let him die and he was connected with Abraham. No doubt if you were to talk to Hagar she would blame it on to Abraham, she did that before when she fled from Sarah.
AHB She had not come to self-judgment.
JT That is the idea. Romans 7 is to teach us how to come to that, “For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh), dwelleth no good thing” (verse 18). It is a real test — “in my flesh”.
AH-s So that God Himself would open her eyes to see the well and all that is available.
JT Quite so.
JTM Is there any analogy between this and the woman in John 4, one who had failed in her responsibility?
JT Just so, it is the same principle running through this matter of the well, it is a very important line of thought, God’s provision for them. Typically [p. 178] it is the teaching of Acts, the Holy Spirit came down — this is their provision.
FI God came in because of what He had for Himself; Ishmael, being a mocker, comes under discipline, and as the discipline is effective God comes in. We may get out of the way and not come under the discipline of the Lord and not know what is available, and not have sufficient intelligence to know where we stand in relation to the things of the Spirit.
JT Just so. We will never come into the gain of the Spirit unless we judge ourselves, so the word is “For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit”, Romans 8: 3, 4. God has dealt with the flesh and it is for us to deal with it, we come into the gain of the Spirit as we do.
FI It seems to me to make it simple for us to understand that there is that which is required of us, the fulfilment of these things, and we can only fulfil them as under the hand of the Spirit and that would lead to the spirit of self-judgment in us, so that we may have the Spirit as available to us.
JT He can help us much better than the brethren, we may appeal to the brethren to help us, but the Holy Spirit is the real help; only there must be self-judgment, the Spirit is not going to support me in the flesh.
AH-s Why does it speak of the “law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus”, Romans 8: 2?
JT It is transferring us to a new position — in Christ Jesus, not through Christ Jesus, but in; it is a new position that we are in, it is a principle working in us. Romans speaks of the “law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus”, it is a subtle thought, it is the [p. 179] Spirit, of course, but working on the principle of law, it must be so — the Spirit is true to Himself.
AHB Is that what governs us, the principle?
JT That is the idea, it sets us free from the law of sin and death, it is the principle working inside of us.
AH It seems that where there is a refusal to accept responsibility affections become lacking, she cast him under the bush. Do you think coming into the recognition of the Spirit that affections become produced?
JT They would be. Romans 8 is to show the great result of the Spirit; it is very like Beer-sheba because it is the Holy Spirit of promise and I think that is why the idea of a well is so much connected with Beer-sheba. What would man ever be aside from the promise of the Spirit? Beer-sheba is the promise, it is the well of the oath, and so in the case of Isaac we have the thing carried through, he is concerned about the digging, about the wells, his father had them and he would unstop his father’s and dig new ones himself, but particularly this one at Beer-sheba; it says, “Isaac’s servants came, and told him concerning the well which they had digged, and said unto him, We have found water” (verse 32). An actual thing, not a potential thought, the water itself was there. Hagar is a person under discipline, but still an object of divine faithfulness, and the same provision made for her is made for Isaac; and there is only one provision in that sense and that is the Spirit, everyone has the same provision. Isaac respected the well afterwards, as Rebekah is coming on the scene, he is seen coming from this well in chapter 24. The same power that Hagar could have had Rebekah is to have. It is the only power for the assembly, indeed for the whole universe, it is the power for bringing about conditions answering to the death [p. 180] of Christ.
JTM Does not that make it very solemn that it is said of these wells “for the Philistines had stopped them” (verse 18)? Is that what has happened historically in the church’s history?
JT Just so. Isaac is Christ typically, not only in heaven, but in the assembly here, Christ in relation to the assembly as seen to be in the testimony, that is Rebekah is seen to be in the position of Sarah’s tent; she has left there according to chapter 26. The well that Hagar had to do with is there, it is enough to maintain even Rebekah, it is Christ in the assembly in testimony, it is the same power as there was for Hagar. So every christian has the same power as the whole assembly, the whole universe is dependent upon it. Well, why should I not avail myself of it, how great a thing it is! Hagar was not thinking of a well, she is a person under discipline, with a will acting. God had made promises to Abraham in relation to that boy and this well is at her disposal for him.
Now we come to Isaac. He understands the thought; typically, of course, it is Christ and Christ is operating through the Spirit down here, so as Rebekah comes upon the scene Isaac is seen coming from the well, according to chapter 24. Isaac understands it, the position is very great and every servant of the Lord should understand it, that the Spirit is the alone power for the testimony, and if the Spirit is stopped there is no testimony, and so Isaac is very concerned about these wells, he grows greater and greater through it.
ESH They are digging in chapter 26: 18, that is an advance on Hagar, is it not? “Isaac digged again the wells of water” (verse 18). Then his servants dug a well and water is found.
JT Digging refers to self-judgment — self-judgment is the accompanying element. Romans 7 is that you arrive at this, “That is, in my flesh, dwelleth no good thing” (verse 18). Making room for the Spirit, that is the idea of the digging, dealing with oneself, the believer is himself the well, according to John 4.
Ques Is that the way that you arrive at the good of the position that is ever available to you?
JT Quite so, the Spirit is the alone power for that; that is what Romans 8 teaches.
AH-s Could we count upon an appearing as we move towards the well?
JT “And he removed from thence, and digged another well” (verse 22). These others had been contended for but they did not strive for this one, the enemy has come up, we are to persevere in our digging, in our self-judgment. The enemy comes up but it is when we do not judge ourselves that the enemy gets success. He calls the name of the well Rehoboth, which means ‘room’, plenty of room. He says, “For now the Lord hath made room for us, and we shall be fruitful in the land” (verse 22). It is a great point; Romans 7 shows that I have reached the point of control of my mind, “So then with the mind I myself ...” (verse 25). I do not let my mind control me any more, I am going to control it and that makes room for the Spirit, so in chapter 8 one has plenty of room for the Spirit’s activity and that is what Isaac’s position now depends upon. Romans 8 makes room for the believer, he can now become out and out a testimony man.
So in verse 23, we come to another movement, he went to Beer-sheba, he is to rest now as having come into the region of divine promise, so that I am fortified now for ever, I can go on in the testimony. Why should any believer be outside of the testimony? God has made provision that I should be in it, not to judge other people but myself.
NKM Is it a great point you have referred to when the enemy comes up and there is room, everything is attributed to Jehovah: “For now the Lord hath made room for us” (verse 22)?
JT Quite so. The next thing at Beer-sheba, is that the enemy would come. On the line of self-judgment Isaac has judged himself, he has plenty of scope spiritually now, the only way the enemy can overcome him now is on the social line so that he should become worldly. The Philistine came with his friend and with his military man, his visit to Abraham was with the military man as much as to impress him with his military power, but this time it is his friend and he will overcome Isaac on the social line, so if Satan ceases to attack us on the line of self-judgment, he will next attack us with wily things, so that we are not to go on with the world or the things in it.
NKM This is a more settled thing, is it not?
JT It is, indeed. Some neighbour comes in for a cup of tea and introduces the young people and your young people and so forth, and presently Satan gets influence, that is the section we have read. It says, “Let us make a covenant with thee ...” (verse 28). Then we see, “He made them a feast, and they did eat and drink ... and Isaac sent them away”
(verses 30, 31). That is the finish of that, he is not going to make conditions with them, the point is now God is with me, I have come to Beer-sheba, that is, I am under divine promise, and I am trusting in the faithfulness of God which never fails. “God is faithful”; He is faithful and He never fails, that is the position of this section, God is with you, God is with me. If I am in the company of the Philistine, God will not be with me; better be with God and God with me than with the captain of the army or the king himself, they are not equal to God.
AH-s Would what he does at Beer-sheba all make him sensitive on this line: “And called upon the name of the Lord, and pitched his tent there” (verse 25)?
JT [p. 183] The position is really very fine, impregnable really, he is under the wing of Jehovah’s provision and now he can afford to be gracious to the Philistine. You do not want to make social links, that is the danger.
NKM It says, “he made them a feast” (verse 30).
JT He made them a feast and sent them away, he has power.
ETE Does he state the truth of the position in verse 27, they really hated him?
JT Just so, they really hated him. If this thing carries on, God says, ‘I will not be with you, Isaac’; but he did not, he worships God. Now the well in verse 32 is, in a way, God’s answer to all that, he found water, not a potential thing but the thing itself; the Holy Spirit is active — the water.
AH So as we are governed by the Spirit we are not deceived by the world.
JT Well, exactly, the Colossian danger was the world.
AH-s Would the world come in principally on the line of patronage?
JT Well, that is the idea of the three men coming, why did not the king come himself? No, he must make a show, they support this, the world will always do that. If the next-door neighbour comes in to tell you about the car, what they paid for the carpets on the floor and this and that, all to make a show and you begin to say the same thing, well, you are on the same line and God does not like that.
AH Do we not have to be careful about that amongst the people of God?
JT Yes, comparing ourselves with ourselves, because you may develop a social condition in the meeting.
NKM Overcoming that, it says, “he called it Shebah: therefore the name of the city is Beer sheba unto this day” (verse 33). It is an established position, is [p. 184] it not?
JT An established position now; in chapter 21: 33, it was just a place, it is only the place, there is no city, but now we come to the centre and, of course, for a believer that would be the assembly or the spirit of it.
HAH Would these exercises often have to be worked out in a meeting, first the quarrelling spirit to be faced, then opposition until there is room?
JT I am sure there is often this sort of thing, the working of the flesh against the Spirit and finally you arrive at plenty of room. Room for the Spirit, that is what is meant and from that point you come up to Beer-sheba, which is a city, that is the assembly becomes a sphere of order and government. Is that what you thought?
HAH Yes, there may be a new meeting and the brethren have to go through these exercises before there is room for the Spirit in freedom.
JT Quite so, I suppose they may have to go through it here and one would hope this meeting would help. It is spiritual room we need and Rehoboth is spiritual room — wide spaces — plenty of room.
AH Do you think the main conflict in this regard is to be in ourselves?
JT Yes, exactly, the Philistine element in ourselves contending with the spiritual.
ESH Isaac was not a quarrelsome man, he just went on digging wells. Is that the way in our local meetings if there is the quarrelsome element, those who are on the line of the Spirit would just go on digging?
JT That means you go on judging yourself. Some of us were looking at 1 Corinthians and noting the number of times the word ‘judgment’ occurs in this epistle and so as to bring out that every person in the assembly should be judging, the apostle says, “If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church”, 1 Corinthians 6: 4. He may not be the least, the brother who is called the least may be more than is apparent, so that we are delivered from the world, from the law courts.
FI This last thought in Beer-sheba brings in a collective idea, does it not, the servants dug it and they said, “We have found water” (verse 32)?
JT Quite so. I suppose the idea is that Isaac is a man of affairs, he is typically Christ, but I think he is more typically a believer here. He is in the very height of his testimony here, he fails in the next chapter; he is seen here at Beer-sheba, the well of water to support him in the city. We have to face all these elements of chapter 26, the spirit of contention and the secret of success; and in these circumstances go on judging yourself, see to yourself, do not blame anybody but yourself, that is what digging means, making room for the Spirit and it is as sure as possible we shall arrive at plenty of water and the city. The city means we can deal with evil, it is a place of order and light and government.
AH It says in verse 18, “Isaac digged again the wells of water”, as if he were the only one. If there is one in the locality exercised like this, let him take it on.
JT Yes, quite so. I suppose you can see that at Corinth, take a woman like Chloe, she must have been a person who judged herself; the house of Stephanas would be another case, too.
WHJP There is an association between Isaac and his servants, they say, We have found water.
JT Quite so, it would show that he represents the governing principle in this situation, it is Christ, of course, in heaven who governs. There is the element here who governs in your meeting, for instance, the element in persons, that is what Isaac represents, he is dealing with the matter of the Philistines, the servants are digging and they are [p. 186] successful, so that we arrive at plenty of water and the city; the city means that we can deal with evil; Isaac has already dealt with it, because he sent the Philistines away.
Ques Would Beer-sheba suggest that you arrive at a position where you have the whole scope of the land before you? It is a southern point.
JT That is it, you are under the protection of God’s faithfulness, the Spirit is God’s faithfulness, the Spirit is the promise.
AH-s When it says “the mind of the Spirit” (Romans 8: 6), is that still in me?
JT “The mind of the Spirit life and peace”, that is in you, of course.
NKM What is the significance of the last two verses, coming in after what you have referred to?
JT You mean Esau — “Esau was forty years old when he took to wife Judith the daughter of Beeri the Hittite, and Bashemath the daughter of Elon the Hittite: which were a grief of mind unto Isaac and to Rebekah” (verses 34, 35). That is an element that is apt to spring up in spite of these wonderful conditions under Isaac, he is Isaac’s son. A brother in the meeting may spring up like that, that is one of the great troubles that I see among the brethren — mixed marriages — and also radios, trade unionism and, of course, general worldly links. These are the main things that we have to contend with. This is an out-and-out bare-faced mixed marriage and in the presence of such a word, too.
NKM Hence the necessity of arriving at the water you have referred to and the city so that conditions may come to light.
JT That is the idea, and it is a hard struggle to contend with these evils.
JTM Does the digging dignify us? The princes digged the wells in Numbers.
JT [p. 187] Quite so, that would bring in personal dignity among us.
AH Would all this lead on to sonship being known as seen in Romans 8?
JT That is one of the great features of Romans 8, the Spirit of adoption. You see what wealth there is here in Beer-sheba.