THE ASSEMBLY IN RELATION TO DIVINE ADMINISTRATION (5)
THE ASSEMBLY IN RELATION TO DIVINE ADMINISTRATION (5)
JT For those who were not present this morning, it may be necessary to remark that we read chapter 17, from which we gathered that there is a special education needed in order that we should correspond with our being made partakers of the heavenly calling, so that we should come out here in the assembly after a heavenly fashion. The Lord selected three of His disciples, Peter, James, and John, and took them up into an high mountain, and was transfigured before them; His face shone as the sun, and His garments became white as the light, all to the end that they might be impressed with what He is as in the heavens. It was, in principle, ascension. We also saw, at the end of the chapter, that the Lord is pleased to associate us with Himself in our position here, saying to Peter, “that we may not be an offence unto them ... take that and give it to them for me and thee”.
EJMcB Perhaps you would add a word as to the reference made to Ephesians; it would help.
JT It was thought that Ephesians corresponded with this, for that epistle presents what is special in view of bringing in the heavenly feature practically with us. It speaks about the blessings with which we are blessed, saying that they are in the heavenlies; that is special. This cannot be said of all the families who are blessed: it is said of us, and furthermore we are said to be raised up and seated in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus, so that we are fitted to come out here, not only in righteousness, but in heavenly lustre, and therefore, in taking part in the administration of the assembly, we are not to become affected by fleshly feeling. Stephen was spoken of as the [p. 402] example of a heavenly man; his face shone and he was in that way like Christ in the midst of the most adverse circumstances. He maintained a right spirit; yea, the spirit of Christ marked him throughout, even having liberty to kneel down and pray, asking for forgiveness for those who stoned him. A wonderful model for us in a man of like passions to us. So it is well to have chapter 17 in view in order to understand the position in chapter 18, where the assembly is formally referred to as, so to say, a court of appeal. How essential that those who form it should be heavenly, for it is only in that way that the heavens rule now. In chapter 18 the assembly is brought in only in an incidental way; the subject is the kingdom, but the assembly is there to be appealed to.
RB Do you draw a distinction between “my assembly” in chapter 16, and “the assembly” here?
JT I think that “my assembly” refers to what is wholly spiritual; the saints are taken account of in the light of the work of God in them. Whilst we recognise the work of God in the saints, the stones that form the building refer to the saints themselves. Scripture takes account of us abstractly as identified wholly with the work of God in us, but it also takes account of us as we are in our mixed state, and having the flesh in us; it is in the latter sense that we are said to be “the assembly of God”; men and women are taken account of in it; it is what we are here before men; (1 Corinthians 1: 2).
RD In that way you can speak of it as a court of appeal. “Tell it to the assembly”.
JT Yes, but obviously chapter 16 is the inner, and gives its character to the outer. “My assembly” is what we are spiritually in relation to Christ; “the assembly” is what we are here before men. Scripture speaks of “the Jews the Gentiles and the assembly of God”, the latter being the aggregate of all the saints in any given city or place. Matthew 18:17, refers to a local company. Scripture does not contemplate the whole assembly on earth acting in matters of discipline. Matthew 16 refers not to a local company, but to the whole assembly, viewed as built by Christ of material wholly according to Himself.
EM Why does this chapter begin with a little child being brought forward?
JT Because the Lord is treating of the kingdom. He had been instructing them as to the heavenly side of things in chapter 17; then chapter 18 begins, “In that hour the disciples came to Jesus saying, Who then is the greatest in the kingdom of the heavens?” This furnishes the Lord with an opportunity of pointing out what the kingdom of the heavens really is as seen in the present time. We have in the previous chapter the Son of man coming in His kingdom; we have no thought of a little child there; the little child is in connection with what is here at the present time. He called a little child to Him, and then set it in the midst of them. The little child called to Him would be fitted to represent what the Lord had in His mind.
Ques Would “the assembly” correspond with the body of Christ on earth at the present moment, and “my assembly” refer to the whole of the redeemed from Pentecost onwards?
JT The epistles to the Corinthians, generally and Matthew 18, refer to the local company, “the assembly”. Colossians 1:18, would include all the saints from Pentecost; 1 Corinthians 12:28, and 1 Timothy 3:15, refer to what existed when these letters were written.
JPW The spirit of the little child sets forth what is heavenly down [p. 404] here.
JT It forms the heavenly texture in one’s demeanour. A little child is not self-assertive.
EJMcB It would correspond with “meek and lowly in heart”. (Matthew 11:29).
JT “As this little child”; it was that little child, the one whom Jesus had called to Him. I suppose it was a special one.
JPW What is the difference between the kingdom of God and the kingdom of the heavens?
JT In this gospel it is almost invariably the kingdom of the heavens, referring, I judge, to Genesis 1, and the book of Daniel, that “the heavens do rule”. (Daniel 4:26). The kingdom of God is the exercise of grace in power, and is connected with the Holy Spirit here: “If I by the Spirit of God cast out demons then indeed the kingdom of God is come upon you”. (Matthew 12:28). The kingdom of the heavens is the rule of Christ as in heaven.
JM Would it be the result of the education in the earlier chapters?
JT I think so; but we do well to occupy ourselves with the little child whom the Lord called to Him. He called it first and then set it in the midst, so that it would rightly represent His thought. The Lord knew the little child He called; He had others in His mind for He says, “Whosoever shall offend one of these little ones”. You are not to offend them, or despise them, because “their angels do always behold the face of my Father”.
EJMcB And He refers to “one such little child”.
HH What is the force of “unless ye are converted”?
JT That is a general statement, assuming that men had turned away from God. First they had to be converted, and then to become as little children. Many are converted, but do not become as little children. It is very beautiful what follows; “whosoever [p. 405] therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven”.
EJMcB In Mark’s gospel the Lord took up little children and put His hands upon them. He does not do that here.
RD We become like that little child through humbling ourselves. It is open to us, is it not?
JT Yes, in order to have an entrance into the kingdom of heaven.
EM And yet you say this is in view of administration?
JT The kingdom is in view here. We should always remember that the subject in Matthew 18 is the kingdom. As in the kingdom you are a subject, and the instruction is for the subject; how you are to conduct yourself towards a fellow-subject, “thy brother”.
HH You would bear in mind that the teaching of chapters 16 and 17 comes before this. It is the kingdom in the light of what has gone before.
JT Certainly. The heavenly man is to have the character of a little child. I have no doubt that the little child would represent one in the light of the previous chapters.
JHL Would the child answer to one of those who heard Him?
JT The Lord calls the child to Him, and the little child comes; he is regulated by the Lord’s word.
EM What might become an offence? Why is it so serious to offend a little one?
JT Because he is of such value in the eyes of the Lord.
Rem Samuel was another child whom God called, and he heard Him.
GWW Is your thought, that something morally analogous to this little child is to mark us if we are to take our place properly in the kingdom. There [p. 406] has been a preparation and a call from the Lord, and we are to be found here marked by the spirit of a little child, taking our place in the midst of the saints.
JT I think so. The question is, can the Lord point to you or to me as a model?
GWW I was wondering whether it is a model of the spirit that is to mark everyone of us before we reach the place that the assembly is to occupy.
JT Yes; it is brought about by the Lord bringing in a model, so that the saints learn what Christianity is in such an one. The apostle Paul speaks of himself in that way; he was pre-eminently a model for Christians.
RD It is remarkable how in Philippians 3:17 he is spoken of in that way; he is a man in the good of what is heavenly.
JT You will remember how Barnabas went to Tarsus to seek out Saul, and he brought him to Antioch. Paul was in Antioch for a year with Barnabas. He taught the assembly for a “whole year”, (Acts 11:26) and then it is added that the disciples were first called Christians at Antioch. The inference to my mind is perfectly clear; Christ was expressed in that man and the effect of his ministry there was that the saints were like Christ. In the next chapter it is said of him, “Saul, who also is called Paul” (Acts 13:9); that is, little. He had no thought of himself; he was little in his own eyes, and he conveyed by that the true idea of Christianity; what the kingdom of God is. It is composed of those who accept littleness publicly, and are content in it.
JHL What was said of the first one who was anointed king in Israel was, “When thou wast little in thine own sight”. (1 Samuel 15:17).
JT Yes, but he did not remain little.
RD He never had his name changed.
JT That is a very good remark; whereas Saul [p. 407] of Tarsus had his name changed; so in appealing to others he says, “I myself, Paul, beseech you, by the meekness and gentleness of Christ”. (2 Corinthians 10:1).
EJMcB Then your idea is that the Lord would have the model that He could call to Himself in this way?
JT I think that any movement on the part of the Lord among His people is marked by that, and brings out some who are descriptive of Him; not only in their teaching, but in their manner of life. It is in the manner of life that a man is seen, what he is.
HH The apostle says, “Thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life”. (2 Timothy 3:10). Timothy would suggest the model.
JT I think Timothy was timid to a fault, but he was Paul’s child, so Paul sends him to the Corinthians, and says of him, “who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ”, (1 Corinthians 4:17). The letter would be supported by the spirit and ways of Paul, as seen in his child.
HH He is the suitable man for the last days.
JT A man who could come “with the brethren” (1 Corinthians 16:11) not assuming to be special amongst them. The saints were to see that he should be amongst them without fear, because he worked the work of the Lord, even as the apostle did; not to the same extent, of course, but after the same manner.
Rem When it says, “Saul, who also is called Paul”, it adds that he was filled with the Holy Spirit; that is the first time that the change of name is mentioned. The opposer was “full of all subtilty” and Paul was full of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 13:9,10).
ENH Perhaps we get an example in the woman of Luke 7:44, the Lord said to Simon, “Seest thou this woman?”
JT She appreciated Christ and is a model in that respect. Now when you come to the question [p. 408] of trespass we are introduced into the jurisdiction of the court of appeal; that is what I think the Lord might help us on at this time; “Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee”.
EJMcB Would you say a word on offending one of these little ones before going on to that.
JT I think it is in the way of setting a snare before him. Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe unto him by whom they come. The Lord is thinking of Christians, and how the world would in time influence and ensnare them. Offence is in the sense of a fall-trap being set, something that would occasion stumbling.
EM Stumbling so as to hinder movement toward God?
JT Yes, like Gideon’s ephod in Ophrah, (Judges 8:27). The same became a snare to the people, and a very great blemish in Gideon’s history.
HH Were you going to say a word as to offending oneself?
JT The Lord turns to that in verses 9, 10. One has to watch that one does not allow one’s hand or foot to offend oneself. Better be without hand or foot than not to enter into life. The hand would be work, and the foot would be walk; something we might allow that would in time turn us away. Others might turn us away, but one might do it oneself. Our foot might lead us into paths that would ultimately ensnare us.
RD Is it that we should be at liberty from every influence, to be available to the Lord? You were going to say something about the next part.
JT I was thinking of what leads us on to assembly discipline. I am speaking of how things worked at the outset, so that we might see how things should be now.
RD It is important to see that at the outset [p. 409] there was assembly authority. Is it involved in that expression in 1 Corinthians 1:2, “the assembly of God at Corinth?”
JT I think it is. That expression implies that there was something at Corinth which would represent God. With this passage we can see how it stands in relation to the kingdom.
RB How does that work out now, telling it to the assembly?
JT We see clearly that it worked at the beginning, because there was a company formally designated as the assembly of God. Then we have to inquire whether we can carry it out literally today since there is no company that we can see and call the assembly of God. Hence as Christians we have to wait on the Lord to find out how to act in these altered circumstances. Therefore 2 Timothy comes into evidence as that which is given subsequently in view of the breakdown, in order to guide the saints.
SL Would you say that the assembly of God is as much in Belfast today as it was at Corinth, but that it cannot be taken account of?
JT It is not available in a concrete way.
Ques What do you mean by available?
JT The aggregate of saints in Belfast never meet in one place; they never take counsel together, so we have to accept the ruin.
EJMcB If you could get the assembly of God in one place, its voice must be final.
JT That is what is said here.
GN Do you make any distinction between authority to act and power to act?
JT I think power is the ability to act, whilst authority is something delegated to us by another, by Christ.
RD You could not speak of delegated power.
JT No; authority is delegated. The power is in the Spirit, and that I hold to exist today, as [p. 410] always, only it is to some extent hampered by the outward conditions. To take it up in a public way would be very presumptuous, for the reason that we have not got all the saints in one place.
ENH Whereas at Corinth they had?
JT Yes. “Tell it to the assembly”, wherever it might be, in whatever locality; there was that which could be spoken of as the assembly of God. We see from this passage that there was a company formally designated as the assembly of God, that could be appealed to. The question is, What am I to do now? I cannot give up this precious light; I must hold to that.
EM And if a brother trespass against you, the matter must be put right.
JT Yes, you must gain your brother; that is another thing that is imperative, and therefore you would turn to those available to you in the light of this.
TMG Principles never alter?
JT Quite: the principles are unalterable, so that you would tell it to those who are available, clothing them with divine thoughts too, but avoid clothing them with authority as the assembly of God in any public way; that would be unbecoming, and indeed could be very easily detected by others as very pretentious and unwarrantable.
Ques Supposing there were only one or two in a place?
JT Then you could not go very much further, because you require them all to see the brother; yet you might humbly convoke those two or three together and communicate your exercises to them, and the Lord will be with you in it, but it will not do to clothe them with assembly authority.
GN When you say walking or acting in the light of this, it does not mean that you give up [p. 411] the commandment?
JT Far from it; you love it.
JM You could not walk in the light of it if you gave it up!
JT I do not know anything that is so precious as the truth of the assembly. When you look at it in Corinthians you see something that God has, in which He can make His mind known, in which He can express His authority against evil, and deal with evil.
HH In making those remarks I presume you are thinking of 2 Timothy. Would you say a little as to how you understand 2 Timothy in relation to the thought of the assembly.
JT Well, I would like to put myself in Timothy’s position when he received the second letter, because he had received one before, and he would have to put the two together. In the first one the apostle said, “These things write I unto thee ... that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God”. (1 Timothy 3:14,15). Timothy would compare the two, and he would see that in the second the apostle does not say anything about the house of God or the assembly of the living God, but he does speak of “a great house”. Timothy would no doubt, say, Things have changed!
JM The principles given in the first letter are not cancelled in the second letter.
JT Far from it; Timothy would have them in his mind, and would cherish them as he loved the Lord. Compare John 14:21.
JMcG You distinguish between the “great house” and the real house?
JT Certainly. At one time the spiritual and the official were commensurate, they were equal, but the official, the public assembly, has outgrown in dimensions the spiritual structure; in fact, we may say the addresses to the seven assemblies disclose complete break, so that the Lord had to say, “Unto you [p. 412] I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira ... . I will put Upon you none other burden”. (Revelation 2:24) The Lord is not putting the onus of dealing with things on the remnant so He speaks about the kingdom; that would be the only remedy. But the Lord was already dealing with evil without the remnant: He said, “I will cast her into a bed”. (Revelation 2:22). He was doing it.
HH Attention has been drawn to the importance of divine principles; these cannot be set aside, but there is a peculiar exercise as to how in a day of ruin like this they can be carried out. Would you agree with that?
JT Yes, certainly. The second letter to Timothy indicates how it is to be done. He would cherish in his soul the light of the first letter; “the things that thou hast heard of me”. (2 Timothy 2:2). These included the first letter and many other things, and they were to be committed to faithful men who would teach others also, so that nothing is given up. It is only a question of acting becomingly because of the ruin, in the light of the things indicated.
HH-y I suppose you would say that Timothy knew the great change that had come over the assembly; “this thou knowest, that all which are in Asia be turned away from me”. (2 Timothy 1:15).
JT I am sure he did; that would enable him to understand why the apostle added further instructions. Throughout the letter generally the thought is that God deals with public evil.
JM And along with that you would say Timothy puts himself right?
JT That is what the second chapter means, how Timothy was to regulate himself in regard to those new conditions, Timothy or anyone that names the name of the Lord.
JPW Does the state of things in second Timothy [p. 413] result from not being in accord with the spirit of a little child?
JT I think so; they had turned away from Paul. He not only mentions that, but he says, in a great house there are vessels to honour and to dishonour; thus in the plainest way pointing to certain things in the public body that were entirely inconsistent with the truth of the assembly. The apostle had spoken, in writing to the Corinthians, about different kinds of material, wood, hay, and stubble, being built in, but these were extraneous and foreign, the things of man. Alas! They have found a place in the outward thing, but they are not of God. All vessels, great and small, were according to Isaiah 22:24, to hang on Christ, but vessels to dishonour would not be hung on Christ, still they are in the house, and a Christian has to adjust himself in regard of them, but he cannot get outside the professing sphere which has now the character of “a great house”, 2 Timothy 2:20.
WK Have you light from Scripture as to how adjust oneself?
JT Well, it goes on to say, “If a man therefore purge himself from these”. (verse 21). “Purge” means that he is clear; he has separated himself from vessels to dishonour so that he may be a vessel unto honour. It is a serious thing to have to say formally to this one or that one, ‘I can no longer walk with you’. We are speaking now of Timothy, to see how the instruction to Timothy helps us.
WCG In Matthew 18, is it not adjusting matters between brethren rather than discipline?
JT We were speaking of 2 Timothy to see how we are helped by 1 Corinthians, or Matthew 18 now. “If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified and meet for the master’s use”. He is therefore a vessel that the Lord can take up and use in the light of all these [p. 414] chapters; he comes back to the principle of “my assembly”; he is fit for the Master’s use. But that is not all; he is to “follow righteousness, faith, love, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart”. (verse 22). Note, it does not say, ‘If you find them there’, because it supposes that they are there. The Lord never intimates that the number should be reduced to one, He had in His mind that there should be others.
WK Your associations lie inside that company?
JT That is right. All those following righteousness would have the first epistle in their hearts; they would have the things that Paul had ministered to Timothy and others.
WK That is, the order of the house of God?
JT Yes, so that in regard of our relations with one another, we are not on individual ground at all, we are on collective ground. As soon as we find one following righteousness, we know he has the Spirit, and having the Spirit, he is a member of the body of Christ, and so are you, hence we take up that great truth, as being linked together in the Spirit.
JM Along with that, there might be a danger of assuming to be something that is not true of all the saints in a place. I understand from what you have been saying, that we reach this individually and by the teaching of the Spirit in our souls; and as having found each other in this way, being of one mind and one spirit, we can act together collectively without the assumption of being anything.
JT Publicly the ground taken is that we are following righteousness.
WK We are doing it together; that is the important point. There is necessarily a difference between those who have purged themselves and those who have not.
JT So that whilst the public ground is that [p. 415] we are following righteousness together, privately we are walking in the light of the assembly.
RD I think it is good what you say about what is private and what is public; that needs to be sharply defined.
JT If we stop simply with the fact that there is a company of persons following righteousness, we do not go far enough, because we can clothe these persons with assembly thoughts, but in doing that we are not excluding any other persons belonging to the assembly. The twelve tribes were always in view with those who acted in faith in the Old Testament.
JS Discipline was always connected with the whole of the local assembly?
JT The church economy was carried out locally. We must not, in seeking to be humble in regard to our public position, lose our great privilege as having part in the house of God; for having the Holy Spirit, and having a few Christians to walk with, we have the thing in principle, and we want to make the most of it. The Lord helps us in that way.
EM Why do you come down to two in Matthew 18?
JT That was to remind them of the resource they had; it is not exactly for a day of declension. The Lord was putting before them, first of all, the advantage of having the assembly, that you can go and tell the assembly. “If also he will not listen to the assembly, let him be to thee one of the nations and a tax-gatherer”. You are done with him; but if you introduce 1 Corinthians, you know the assembly has not done with him. Then He says, “Whatsoever ye shall bind”. The Lord intimates the great resource that the saints had in having the assembly to look to; they could deal with a man, and heaven would ratify what they did. Then He says, “If two of you shall agree”. There is another resource, prayer,
[p. 416] on the ground of spiritual unity. Then “where two or three are gathered together in my name there am I in the midst of them”. He is there to help them.
EM Can we have that privilege now?
JT Certainly.
SMcC What about binding on earth? Would you take that ground today?
JT I would not take that ground publicly today, but I believe that the thing is done.
HH Would you say the Lord takes account of the exercises of the saints now in regard of difficulties amongst them?
JT He helps them in their difficulties, and in time things are adjusted amongst the saints. All the conflicts we pass through are waged in the consciences of the saints, and in due course God brings the saints to a right judgment. The need of patience is therefore evident.
RD You mean that in all simplicity, as governed by the light of this, we may pursue these lines, and we shall have the Lord’s support.
JT I think so; in fact, I know it is so, and I reckon on it.
RB Are not assembly exercises in the way of education for the time when the saints will judge the world?
JT No doubt.
GN Does following righteousness involve the necessity of dealing with evil?
JT Yes; it is involved in the pursuit of righteousness. It would not be righteous to go on with a wicked person.
WAW You still think that Matthew 18:18, can be acted upon at the present day?
JT It is acted on in principle. We do not act formally as if we were the assembly, but God helps His people as they have to deal with evil and confirms [p. 417] what they do as they act in the light of the principles given to govern the assembly.
WK It supposes that they have done it, and have done it in such a way that heaven can ratify it.
RD That is important; it is done in such a way that heaven can ratify it.
JT It is a question of how you do it. I believe that God carries on discipline as ever.
WK What would become of us if there were not discipline?
JT I do not think that brethren with whom we are walking have the least thought of giving up discipline; it is a question of the modus operandi; 2 Timothy indicates that. Privately we know that God maintains discipline; we are not only relieved of the person, but God deals with him, and restores him as of old.
JM Do you not think that the education indicated in these chapters and the spirit that is suggested in them, in spite of the altered condition of things, would be a great help to us?
JT I am sure of it. I believe the Lord has a distinct voice to us, and it will have an effect that will abide to the end, because the Lord is bringing about assembly affections, so that the saints should be prepared to meet Him.
EJMcB Would you say a word in regard to having 1 Corinthians 5 in one’s heart when dealing with evil in 2 Timothy days?
JT Well, we have the law of the house; the law governing that particular circumstance; hence, in dealing with a wicked person, we have that before us; but we have to keep before us too that conditions have altered. The discipline however, is as effective as ever; God has the person in view that he may be restored.
GWW Heaven takes account of altered conditions, and it will not do to violate the truth as regards [p. 418] how heaven looks at things on earth now; and therefore, if an action is to command the approval of heaven, there must be a taking account of the change that has come in according to the mind of heaven. 2 Timothy is, so to speak, heaven’s recognition of the altered conditions. One might ask oneself how far we have all been in real distress of soul over the altered conditions? When Timothy had the second epistle in his hands, it must have been real distress to him to take account of them. If that is lacking, we are not in the mind of heaven about things.
JT I am sure the Lord is very jealous as to those whom He would support. The Old Testament abounds with evidence that He cannot be with us except under certain conditions.
Rem Timothy’s tears suggest the state that our brother refers to.
JT That is a very important word.
JM “Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things”. (2 Timothy 2:7).
Ques Does “yourselves” in 1 Corinthians 5 include the whole assembly, “all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord”; as well as the assembly at Corinth?
JT “Yourselves” there would be the company at Corinth. Discipline is always exercised locally, never by the whole assembly. When things declined Christians adopted general councils, and decisions were rendered, but the original constitution, the economy of the assembly, required that things should be decided locally. The assembly at Jerusalem is the only one that is referred to without mentioning the locality. Paul went up and “saluted the assembly”, (Acts 18:22); meaning the assembly at Jerusalem. It had a peculiar place; no other assembly had that place.