THE LORD'S COMING IN AND GOING OUT
THE LORD’S COMING IN AND GOING OUT
JT Some of us have been noticing the reference made by Peter, when speaking in the upper room, as to the Lord coming in and going out among them: “All the time in which the Lord Jesus came in and went out among us”. Acts 1:21. We were noting that, and that the qualification of a nominee for the vacant apostleship was that such an one had assembled with the others during that time: “It is necessary therefore that of the men who have assembled with us all the time in which the Lord Jesus came in and went out among us, beginning from the baptism of John until the day in which he was taken up from us, one of these should be a witness with us of his resurrection”, Acts 1:21,22. It occurred to me that the Lord in the house from that point of view becomes peculiarly interesting, for the coming in and going out would apply to His being in the house; and in connection with that, the unfolding of what is spoken outside is in the house. I think it would be of interest for us to look at this subject, connecting it with the house of God, where only His coming in and going out are to be known now.
Ques Have you in your mind such a meeting as this, as well as at the Supper?
JT Well, the house of God is a general thought; it is that over which the Lord is as having built it. He is Son over it, and He is a great Priest over it.
PL Would this connect with Timothy: “Great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit”, etc.? 1 Timothy 3:16. What is in mystery is now made known to the [p. 163] initiated.
JT Quite so. To apprehend these movements one has to understand the house and to be in it intelligently, which is wholly a spiritual matter. Whilst the saints are said to be the house of God in a provisional way, yet it is a spiritual house, and it has to be apprehended spiritually; one has to begin at the foundation, and take account of the material, as well as of the architecture. I refer to it particularly as corresponding with what the disciples had in the days of His flesh and after He rose from the dead, for the period was from the time of His baptism until He ascended. It says, “beginning from the baptism of John until the day in which he was taken up from us”. Acts 1:22. The house today is that which corresponds with what they had when the Lord Jesus came in and went out among them between these two events.
ASL How do you speak of the coming in and going out now?
JT The Lord has the door open to come in here; He has arranged for that. It ties in the fact that He said, “The world seeth me no more; but ye see me”, John 14:19. It is a spiritual matter. Judas wanted to know how it was that He would manifest Himself to them and not to the world, and the Lord began in His explanation with love. “If a man love me”. The door is left open in that way so that He comes in and goes out; that is, He is free. It depends on the Holy Spirit being here in the assembly.
ASL Yes, He is free. Have you in your mind the thought of saints gathered together?
JT No, it is more extended than that.
ASL Because the house of God could not be gathered together exactly; it is too vast, it is all over the earth.
JT The house is never connected with a local company. It is always a catholic thought and one has often connected it with Psalm 113:3: “From the rising of the sun unto the going down of the same the Lord’s name is to be praised”. On the first day of the week, the morning meetings, as we speak of them, start literally on our Saturday night, because they begin in New Zealand and extend westward to the Pacific coast. I refer to that, not to be geographical or literal, but to show that the house of God is a wide thought, and the Lord has all that; from the rising of the sun to the going down of it His name is praised.
ASL Yes. Is not the house of God, perhaps, the widest thought of all as presented in Scripture; it embraces everything?
JT It does. “He that built all things is God”, Hebrews 3:4. The “all things” are referred to as the house.
ASL So in full result the whole universe will be God’s house, but we are provisionally the house.
JT Yes, provisionally.
FI Do you mean that we can only be in the value of administration in the house of God as we are able to apprehend the Lord’s present movements in relation to the house?
JT I think so; we have to apprehend His movements, His coming in and going out.
Ques Do you mean His movements in the way of ministry or bringing about exercises in regard of an issue?
JT All of these.
ASL Would you include in your thought manifestations of His love to individuals?
JT Yes, I would. That is what John 14 expressly states. Then Hebrews 12:14 comes in, because it is a question of seeing the Lord: “holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord”. Hebrews 12:14. You see what He is doing; you are not misled in any way; you know where He is.
ASL Seeing the Lord in that sense indicates that you discern [p. 165] His actual presence.
JT Exactly; it is a question of spiritual apprehension.
PL The house in John is linked up with an open door in the hearts of the saints. It matters little what happens here so long as an open door is kept for Christ.
JT He has got access here. The Holy Spirit maintains things livingly for Him. The Holy Spirit is here abidingly; the Lord comes.
Ques Would it embrace what you get in Hebrews as to divine service? You get the house spoken of there in the beginning of the book.
JT Yes, quite. He is recognised as Son over it, and the Spirit speaks in it in chapter 3. He is a great Priest over it in chapter 10, so that you can “draw near”; it is available in that way.
PL Would you connect His movements in Matthew with power and support, and in John with love?
JT Well, I think that is just. In Matthew He is with us always in the way of support, mainly, I apprehend, in connection with the maintenance of the government of God here, so that in seeing His movements — His coming in and going out — you learn how things are in the house of God. Everything has to be learned from Him; He built it and He is over it.
ASL So that the coming in and going out is not over, it is continuous.
JT Yes, it makes the house of God a most wonderful place; one needs to be spiritual and holy so as to be there, and to see what goes on there.
ASL One peculiar feature in regard of the house of God is its being catholic. But it is open to even two or three who are in the truth of God to taste something of the fatness of it. The fact of our being reduced numerically to a very small number does not [p. 166] in any way preclude the enjoyment of the proper portion of the whole house.
JT Is not that the point of John 14? First He comes to one who loves Him, knowing His commandments and keeping them, and then to one who keeps His word the Father and the Son come, and make their abode with him. See verses 21, 23. John 14:21,23.
ASL These verses 21 and 23 of chapter 14 are very wonderful; they are intensely individual. The whole of the chapter otherwise is collective; it is the whole company.
JT Yes; in Matthew the wise men find the Lord in the house; the star did not guide them to Jerusalem, because the Lord was not there, but the star, “went before them until it came and stood over the place where the little child was”, Matthew 2:9. They went to the house, that is where the little child was, it was not in a manger in Matthew. See verse 11. I refer to that as significant. So here it says, “having dismissed the crowds, he went into the house”. Then the next thing is, “his disciples came to him”, and that suggests that the opportunity is open to us to come to Him there.
ASL And there He speaks quite differently from the way He does by the sea-shore.
JT Yes.
Rem In the history of our souls we have to reach Christ for ourselves. No one can do that for us, we each have to move in that direction so as to have spiritual perceptions and sensibilities.
ASL In connection with what has been said, I suppose the practical difficulty with regard to the truth of the house of God is that it is purely and entirely spiritual, so that it is only as we are controlled and taught of the Spirit that we can conceive the thing at all.
JT Yes. In Acts, in speaking of the Lord’s ascension, the fact is recorded that those who saw [p. 167] Him go up went to the upper room. That is a spiritual movement, because that place had been discovered earlier to them on spiritual lines. They did not need the man bearing a pitcher of water to direct them to the temple. At the end of the gospel of Luke when He was carried up into heaven they returned to Jerusalem and went to the temple, that is, they were there as witnesses — they were God’s witnesses there; but in the Acts after they saw Him go up they go to the upper room, meaning, I apprehend, that that had been discovered to them earlier on spiritual lines; they had found the upper room by following the man who had the pitcher of water, according to the Lord’s own directions.
Ques Would that suggest the Spirit?
JT I think the ministry of the Spirit. It seems to be a spiritual reference in the Acts as leading up to the great truth of the house, the assembly, because it is discovered on spiritual lines.
PL That spot would become fragrant to them in the unfolding of the desires of the heart of Christ for them. And we are safe, are we not, only as we pursue what engages His heart, that is, the whole assembly?
JT The Lord said, “There shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house”, Luke 22:10. It is a word for anyone spiritually desirous of knowing the place. It is a divine provision. That preceded this, and so did the institution of the Lord’s supper, and these precious memories of that place had the effect, according to the Acts, that they sought it out after He ascended, “where were staying both Peter and John, and James, and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James son of Alphaeus, and Simon the zealot, and Jude the brother of James. These gave themselves all with one accord to continual prayer, with several women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren”. Acts 1:13,14. They really, as we might say, went into the house where the rights of Christ, at any rate where those who represented the rights of Christ, were.
Ques Would you say a little more as to Matthew 2, where the Lord is found in the house?
JT Well, I thought it is in keeping with Matthew’s account; it is the dignity of the King. In Luke He is in the manger. I quite recognise that Matthew is later historically, nevertheless there is a distinction to be made between the manger and the house. We are on the line of the government of God in Matthew, and so it is the little child and its mother there; the mother was a divine provision for Him. But it was in the house that the wise men found Him and brought forth the evidence of their regard and reverence for Him.
Rem You said that the Lord’s coming in and going out suggested His having liberty. I suppose you would say that He must be allowed to exercise His rights?
JT Well, that enters into it. It should exercise us as to whether the conditions of John 14 exist amongst us.
Rem We get His service — the benefits of His service — but as Son over God’s house His rights must be recognised.
JT Yes, in referring to those who were in the upper room, the apostles, I had that in mind. The apostles represented His authority, and that is where they went.
Rem Speaking generally that is why His services are missed today in Christendom, because His rights are not acknowledged.
Ques Will you say how you view the upper room in relation to the house?
JT Well, it is what is discovered on spiritual lines. The Lord could have easily given them the [p. 169] exact street and number, as we may say, but He did not do that. He knew well enough where the house was. He knew where Saul was; He told Ananias where to go to find him. He did not tell the man bearing the pitcher of water to show them the way, and He did not tell them the number of the room, as we speak; He simply says, “a man shall meet you ... follow him into the house”, Luke 22:10.
Ques Do I understand that in the movements in the opening of the Acts they were governed by spiritual instinct?
JT That is what I was thinking.
Ques Their spiritual instincts were in exercise to find it. Is it not the same today?
JT Yes; that is how the house is to be found out, it is a spiritual institution.
Ques You view the saints in connection with the house of God and you discover them on spiritual lines, would you say?
JT Well, I would have more the thought of the house abstractly first; I should have the idea of a spiritual house, and I think John helps us in regard of that, in that when the disciples asked the Lord where He dwelt He did not tell them.
Rem I was thinking of “whose house are we”. Hebrews 3:6.
JT Well, saints are the house of God provisionally. The thought of the house of God is a very wide one. Peter calls it a spiritual house, that is the thing to take in at the moment. When the two disciples had followed the Lord, according to John’s record, and desired to know where He dwelt, He did not tell them; that is intended to throw us on our spiritual understanding; He says, “Come and see”. Now, what do I make of that? I have got to look at it and see what it means. It is not recorded merely as of historical interest, it is something for us; and “they came and saw where he dwelt”, John 1:38,39. He did not say to them. “Come and see”
[p. 170] until He turned round and saw them following Him; they had been moved already by the ministry of John, they were touched by it and they followed Jesus, and He turned round and saw them following. It is one thing after another. He says to them, “What seek ye?” And they say, “Rabbi, where dwellest thou? He saith unto them, Come and see”. John 1:38, 39. That is the principle of John 1, it lays a spiritual basis in your soul. The house must be taken up first of all abstractly, and then you come to it that the saints are it now. You come to it in that way and you begin to look at the saints as spiritual, because Peter will have it so, “Ye also as lively [living] stones”. You never heard of such a thing in the whole realm of creation; it is not in keeping with nature that a stone should be living. Well, I have to take hold of that; hence he says, “Yourselves also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house”, 1 Peter 2:5.
HFN You have alluded to the first reference to the house in Matthew; the last reference is in relation to the house of Simon the leper; it says the Lord went into the house and there the woman anoints him. Is Matthew 2 the beginning of the instruction, and would the completion of the thought be reached in chapter 26?
JT I think that is very good; she anointed His head, too.
Ques What do you refer particularly to in His head being anointed in Matthew?
JT Well, it is so in Mark also, whereas in John it is His feet. I think in the anointing of His head the Lord is recognised in His official dignity. In anointing His feet He is recognised in His love; those feet were going to carry Him out through death, “Six days before the passover” John 12:1. Mary anointed Him for His burial. It was as if she said, These feet are going to carry you into death for me.
[p. 171] I think the woman in Luke 7 anointed His feet because she had learned grace, He had carried the grace of God to her, “How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace”, Romans 10:15; Isaiah 52:7. It was not for His burial there, whereas the anointing inside in Bethany by Mary had reference to the Lord going the full length; it was for His burial; she knew He was going to die; but I understand Matthew and Mark have in view the official dignity of Christ, and so the anointing is on the head. But your reference is very interesting because it is the end of the thought of the house; He is owned fully.
HFN What Matthew gives us, as you were saying, is the rights of God in government, and the anointing would indicate the full recognition of that.
JT Yes. There is the full recognition of His official rights. The fact that it occurs in the house is instructive, and ought to have an effect upon us as to how we regard the Lord in the assembly.
HFN So the wise men give us the first movements in regard of the house; they brought out of their treasures gold, and frankincense and myrrh; and the woman represents in that way the development of the education that Matthew brings about.
JT In reference to the Lord in the house, I think we see in chapter 13 how you get the unfolding of the mind of God there; those who know the house, and the Lord in it, are never puzzled.
Exposition is the first thing, and then He adds to that. First it says that His disciples came to Him, saying, “Expound to us the parable of the darnel of the field”, Matthew 13:36. Well, He expounds that, but He does not stop there. That is a thing we might note. We may desire to know certain things, but the Lord knows more than what we ask about, and He will add more than we ask; the unfolding of the truth of the assembly comes out first in verse 44:
“[p. 172] A treasure hid in the field ... goes and sells all whatever he has, and buys that field”. That is a further thought, it is more than the exposition they asked for; it is a new thought — a thought which should be taken note of, because it indicates that the Lord has acquired rights of the whole world through redemption. This gives great room for movement in service in the gospel. He has bought the field because of the treasure that was in it. There is nothing in the way; He moves to get the treasure. First we get the purchase of the field because of what was in it, and then the purchase of the pearl itself. There are the two thoughts. And then He adds another thing, that is, the net; of these three things He gives instruction in the house, as suggestive of what He may do for us where there is inquiry.
PWD Why is it called the kingdom of the heavens — in the plural — and not the kingdom of heaven?
JT I think it is because all the ordinances of the heavens have got part in the rule of the heavens, as some of us were noticing. Jehovah speaks of these in Job 38:31 - 33; they all have their part in the rule.
Ques In suggesting that the house is a provisional thought, have you in mind that it is in view of the education of the saints?
JT Well, it is; so wonderful things will be opened up to us. The house is that over which Christ is as having built it as the Son. The Son is over the house, and the Son sets us free in it, that is, He gives us to understand that as being sons we have liberty in it and we see His comings in and goings out; then we have here opened up to us the mind of God. There is the full answer to the inquiry of the disciples and more; we need not inquire elsewhere.
ASL It is important practically to see that the assembly is the house of God only provisionally. It keeps in view the other families that are to be introduced [p. 173] in their various places in relationship in the house. You often hear the expression that God has secured for Himself a company that can worship in His presence; that is very true, but He has secured for Himself a variety of companies. We want to get hold of that. It is not simply and only the assembly, blessed as it is above all families.
JT The Father names every family. The assembly is the house now, pending Israel’s reinstatement; then God’s house will be in Jerusalem again. The assembly will be the tabernacle of God in the eternal state of things; Revelation 21. In the light that the Lord is pleased to vouchsafe here we get more than we ask for; we have the light of the assembly opened up. We get the principle of it in Acts 1. One thing we should notice is the room there is in regard of service — testimony. The Lord has clear rights, universal rights. He has bought the field for the sake of the treasure in it, so that He has the right of way everywhere. Abraham bought the field; he secured it, and the cave and the trees that were in the field. And so, too, David bought the site for the house; he gave so much for the place. I think it is a principle with God that there must be ample scope, a free hand in the service; and He discloses that here in speaking about the intrinsic value of the assembly, the field and the treasure in it.
ASL He buys the field, and then the net is cast into the sea; that is a universal thought. There is plenty of room there for service in the gospel; the sea is the whole vast expanse.
JT I think the sitting down and selecting the good is a present feature of the kingdom of the heavens, for certainly a mixed lot has been drawn in in the net, and it tests us as to whether we can discern the good. David said to Abigail, “Blessed be thy discernment”, 1 Samuel 25:33. “Every scribe discipled to the kingdom of the heavens is like ... a householder”. We are to be on that line. The thing is to be a householder, one who can bring out of his treasure things new and old. He has got things new and old, and he brings them out of his treasure.
PL Nothing would make us more discriminative and contributive than to be near Christ in His feelings of love for the assembly.
JT And then to be a householder. It is a remarkable place that the house has in Scripture; and the responsibility in the house, whether it is your own house or God’s house, is to learn to be a householder.
PL You move householdly as a son in Matthew.
JT And then you have a treasure and out of it you bring things new and old. As discipled into the kingdom of the heavens you see how God has been moving in government from the very beginning; that is, you have the things old, but you have the new ones as well. Things are not old in the sense of being effete or useless, but more as being antique; they are valuable for their very age. Some of the things we now learn in Christ had been spoken of and exemplified indeed from the outset. To be instructed in the kingdom of the heavens means that we see the principles of rule from the very outset. God set the great lights in heaven at the beginning.
Ques Do you not think that we sometimes look at the expression “rule” as something harsh? It is really the rule of divine love; there is love in connection with all God’s governmental ways.
JT I think the ordinances of heaven, as some of us were seeing, are most beneficial, even physically. Everything in the world, we might say, depends on the ordinances of the heavens physically — the existence of life, and guidance for men moving about. God has mercifully provided for the human race. All these things depend on the ordinances of the [p. 175] heavens; how could men traverse the seas without them?
Rem “Seek him that maketh the seven stars and Orion”. Amos 5:8. There is order there.
JT Quite. Job refers perhaps more than any book to the testimony of creation — the heavens and the earth and all the living creatures of the earth and the sea. Everything depends on the ordinances God mercifully placed in the heavens. They are not harsh; they are merciful.
ASL The reason why we think them harsh is because we have got away from God; we are lawless. But what a terrible thing if there were no rule; we could not live without rule: “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth”. Genesis 1:1. That is the order.
JT Yes, that is the order; and He has set ordinances in the heavens and they have application to the earth. There are ordinances governing heaven itself for its own maintenance, and there are ordinances which have application to the earth. They are not arbitrary, they are benign, even physically; how much more so spiritually. The old things here which the householder has in his treasure are what he has seen in creation; and there are things, too, that God had already communicated, but now, he says, I see them all in Christ; they are connected with the new things.
Ques What were the old things?
JT I think the things of the Old Testament; the beginning of Genesis 1 for instance, and we view them in the light of the new. We begin with new things. The householder brings out of his treasure things new. He shows them first, but now, he says, this is something one thousand years old, look how beautiful it is! You see it now as it referred to Christ.
PL So the Lord is filling their treasures at the end of Luke: “Beginning at Moses and an the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself”. Luke 24:27. And then Peter in Acts 1 brings them out of his treasure.
Ques Would you say a little more as to the scribe being discipled? What does that mean; is it that he has to be instructed, disciplined?
JT It means “taught”. You are subject to the person who teaches you.
Ques Is the thought of the house that you are governed by divine principles?
JT That is one thought of it; you recognise “the law of the house”. Ezekiel 43:12.
Ques You referred to David buying the threshing-floor of Ornan. In one place it speaks of fifty pieces of silver and in the other of six hundred shekels of gold being paid. What is the difference?
JT The writer of Chronicles refers to what David gave for the place.
Rem I was thinking of the silver in contrast to the gold.
JT I think the silver would have reference to redemption, and possibly have regard to the price Oman would have put on the threshing-floor, but Chronicles would record the larger view of what David gave for it; he would have the place. We are not told how much territory he secured, but you may depend upon it he had in view that there should be no claim on the house of God afterwards. No one would have any right to say, I own that property, or part of it. He purchased it with gold. He gave gold for it because it is a question of the intrinsic value of the purchase by Christ.