GOD'S RIGHTS IN GOVERNMENT AND SERVICE
GOD’S RIGHTS IN GOVERNMENT AND SERVICE
JT It was on my mind, as the Lord might help us, to see how matters stood at the beginning, for the gospels were obviously written to confirm what the apostles had witnessed to, introduced and established. There are four features, among others of course, which characterise the revelation and intervention of God in Christ. They are: His rights in government, His rights in service, His rights in grace, and His rights in love. If these four features were understood, it would enable us to be here at the end according to the mind of God. Matthew, giving us the rights of God in government, ends his narrative with the Lord’s commission to the eleven to make disciples of all nations, that is, the nations viewed as the political divisions of the earth. Mark records that they were commissioned to preach “to all the creation”. Luke also mentions the nations, but obviously his gospel has in view the race of mankind, not so much the political divisions; he presents the “one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus”. 1 Timothy 2:5 And then John has in view the testimony to the world.
RB In what way do the rights of God in government affect the present aspect of the testimony here?
JT Well, the recognition of these would enable us to see that the happenings among the nations are under divine control, and can but further the testimony. No one can serve in the gospel in the sense of security without a knowledge of God in [p. 96] government.
JS Is that why Matthew begins with the King, the son of David?
JT Yes.
JS And also why the administrative vessel comes in in Matthew?
JT Well, yes; the assembly.
AMH Would you view all the political divisions on the earth as coming under the hand of Christ in the sense of all power given to Him?
JT That is what I was thinking. “All power has been given me in heaven and upon earth”.
AMH Would you connect Matthew in any way with the Ephesian thought of the assembly as the vessel of administration here, how she influences, and would you look to Ephesians for that to be developed?
JT I think what we need perhaps to cultivate is a little more elevation of thought. Ephesians furnishes us with that in a supreme degree. The Lord is said to have “ascended up above all the heavens”, Ephesians 4:10 and thence He has given the gifts — the evidence of His power. If we think of the temple porch, which was one hundred and twenty cubits high, we see that the elevation dominated the other dimensions. In order to understand the vessel in which the government is set here, we have to apprehend it as having come down. We have to take account of the elevated place it has been given, otherwise in our service we shall not rise above the level of ordinary Christendom around us, which is, alas, what often marks us — we are on the level of men. It is right to be on the level of men if we seek them individually (1 Corinthians 9:19 - 22), but not in our ordinary walk and testimony.
PL Would that go with the thought, “Jesus Christ, who is at the right hand of God, gone into heaven”? 1 Peter 3:22 That is it, “Gone into heaven”. In Luke the Lord comes down (Luke 6:17); the principle is [p. 97] you come down. He spent all night in prayer, appointed the twelve, and then descended with them and stood in the plain in grace.
Ques Why do you go to the end of the gospels for the point of view?
JT Because we want to see how the truth works out, and that is what we get in the end of the gospels. Hence Matthew speaks of one angel whose countenance is as lightning, and he refers to the Lord in Galilee maintaining the dignity that belongs to royalty — He maintains distance — and there is no reference to Jerusalem; that was governmental. We have to see how God deals with men governmentally, and then how He deals with them in grace. Luke in chapter Luke 24:47, begins at Jerusalem, because he gives the side of grace, but Matthew ignores Jerusalem and shows us the Lord in Galilee commissioning His disciples there, saying that all power is given unto Him. Power is no longer vested in Jerusalem; it is vested in Him; and the apostles are to make disciples of all the nations from Galilee. Thus we see how God works governmentally among the nations today.
AH W. Does the repeated reference to the mountain in Matthew give the thought of elevation?
JT It does.
CHW Is that what is in your mind, that movement begins from heaven in Matthew?
JT Yes; the gospel begins with what is seen in heaven. The wise men in the east saw His star; the movement was in heaven. If I am in the light of the government of God, then I see that He discriminates; some nations are much more favoured than others. That is what Matthew teaches.
AMH Do you mean then by government that God follows certain lines suitable to His government, notwithstanding the introduction of the day of grace?
JT Quite. An Asiatic is a man as much as a European, but nevertheless in the light of the government [p. 98] of God one sees that Europe has been much more favoured than Asia. On the other hand, if you are in the light of what Luke presents, one God and one Mediator, you are prepared to speak of Christ to every man and reckon on God to help you in it. Hence you pray for the governments of the world, because you see that God works through them for the furtherance of the testimony.
Ques Then do you link the whole together in 1 Timothy? You pray for governments, and then, too, for all men.
JT Yes; he brings down the governors, those in authority, and merges them all in one class. God will have all men to be saved; so that you reckon on the angel relatively as you reckon on the Spirit of God. It were folly to ignore the angel, for angels are sent out to minister “on account of those who shall inherit salvation”; Hebrews 1:14 their service is on account of us. Whatever that service may be, it is on account of us.
PL But the angel descends out of heaven, does he not?
JT He does. I think it is very important to take note of that, that the angel is here. He has come down from heaven, and he is here on account of us. “Are they not all ministering spirits [every one of them] sent out for service?” Hebrews 1:14 Sent out — they are all under commission.
AHW Are you suggesting that they are here in support of the testimony?
JT They are here on account of us, and on account of the testimony, but they are “sent out”.
Ques Do you bring in the angel in connection with the government of God?
JT Yes, and all is in view of the saints.
Ques Do the angels serve in a circumstantial way?
JT Well, they are providential, as we speak, but they are actually here in service, under commission.
[p. 99] They are here in their relative place as the Holy Spirit is here, hence you get this one angel sitting on the stone, his countenance as lightning.
WCG Is your thought that the saints get the advantage of the providential happenings of God in that way?
JT Certainly. Angels are all under Christ, all subject to Christ (1 Peter 3:22), but sent out. So you get both the angel and the Spirit acting in connection with the Ethiopian eunuch. Angelic service had much to do with the subdivisions of the earth, but now the angel is interested in the eunuch, in this man going down from Jerusalem to Gaza.
HFN What is the connection in the last chapter of Revelation, “I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify these things to you in the assemblies”? Revelation 22:16 How would that link on with what you are saying?
JT The Revelation contemplates distance, which the failure of the assembly has occasioned, so that the Lord is dealing through a representative. It is, so to say, indirect. I think that there the angel is a representative of the Lord. The Roman seal had been put on the stone of the sepulchre, and it was as if God were to say, “One angel is enough to deal with that”.
RB Then what do the myriads of angels refer to?
JT The universal gathering. It is a reference, I understand, to the states of Greece, as you might say, the Congress. The angels, I suppose, would have been widely dispersed in their service, but they are seen together-the universal gathering. We have come to that; we see the myriads of angels, occupied as they have been in the government of God, a united company, witnessing to the foundations of the earth being laid, and following sympathetically since that time all the movements of God. We may be assured they represent an enormous company.
[p. 100] They represent wonderful wisdom and above all they represent subjection to the will of God (Psalm 103:20); not like a modern parliament, where every man has his own opinion, but all in subjection to God. We have come to that. Manna was the food of the mighty, “angels’ food”. The universal gathering of angels is of wonderful interest to those who know God.
RB You mean the object lesson would be a great help in government?
JT Well, quite; and it would help us too in our comings together — a company who know God and are in subjection to God seen together. We read in the book of Job, which affords considerable insight into angelic feelings, “The morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy”. Job 38:7 There we get an insight into their affections and feelings, and their interest in what God is doing. Then there was a time, too, when the sons of God came up before God.
JS You mean we should learn from that?
JT Yes; we have come to that. It is a great thing to learn subjection.
Ques What is the thought in Matthew 18, where it says, “See that ye do not despise one of these little ones; for I say unto you that their angels in the heavens continually behold the face of my Father who is in the heavens”? Matthew 18:10 It is representation.
Ques You have spoken of the rights of God in love coming out in John. You get the angels there too. Why are they there?
JT Their presence there is to indicate the dignity of the Person. They are not there to announce the power of God against all opposition, but to denote the dignity of the Person who lay there.
ER Is not one important point there that they are sitting, they were not standing; they are seen.
[p. 101] so to speak, in divine repose? I thought that was the greatest of all in John.
JT “Sitting ... one at the head and one at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain”. John 20:12 I think sometimes we have passed that by.
JT The angels are available to God for His will. It is a great thing to have the sense that the government of God is running collaterally with the work of the Spirit; they go together.
PL Would you say that government in that way relieves of burdens externally and makes way for the assembly, while the Spirit of God would work in priestly hearts to place there the burden of the testimony? If in providence burdens are lifted, it is that we may carry burdens in a priestly way.
JT “Who art thou, O great mountain 1 before Zerubbabel thou dost become a plain”. Zechariah 4:7. That makes room for him to “bring forth the headstone with shoutings: Grace, grace unto it”. Zechariah 4:7. No one can serve with the sense of security who does not understand the government of God. Hence Matthew is so important.
HFN Is that why in the heavenly city the twelve gates have twelve angels?
JT I think so; they are the agencies God has employed. We have the angels and the names of the twelve tribes all gathered up in the assembly.
JJ Would you say that Romans is the epistle that goes with Matthew? Do you think the government of God is developed in that way? I mean, the son of Abraham and the son of David; they are both brought in?
JT Yes, exactly. The gospel is concerning His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord. He is come of David’s seed according to flesh.
HFN How does what you are speaking of bear on Matthew’s peculiar presentation [p. 102] of the assembly?
Has Matthew in view the forming of the heavenly city?
JT I think you would be entitled to connect it with the heavenly city, but Matthew has more in view the government of God in this provisional period.
AMH Is that in view of holding the ground that God had secured in Israel first, and afterwards when Israel and Jerusalem are set aside, in the assembly provisionally?
JT That is what I thought. It is a great subject, because the assembly must be very great to sustain such a government as this. Angels had it, Israel had it, and now the assembly has it. It is in the assembly as unfolded and spoken of by the Lord when He was on earth.
Ques In that way does Acts follow Matthew administratively? The angel in Acts is very largely connected with Peter’s ministry, but the Spirit more connected with Paul’s.
JT I think that is right.
Rem Speaking of subjection, it is wonderful to see that the Son Himself will be subject, and God will be all in all.
JT Perhaps our greatest need is to learn to be subject, for no one can rule unless he learns to be subject.
PL Does the sovereignty of God as seen in Matthew particularly, test us as to our subjection to Him?
JT Yes; God asserts His rights in government. In Matthew the Lord says, “I say unto you”. You have to submit to that.
Ques Why is it that the Spirit of Jesus did not suffer Paul to go into Bithynia? Was that in line with Matthew?
JT I think that has more the antichrist in view; I think the antichrist was to arise in Europe,
[p. 103] and the Spirit of Jesus would have the full testimony of Jesus presented there. “The spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus”. Revelation 19:10 That spirit has been tested in Europe prominently because Paul’s ministry was largely developed there. The Spirit of Jesus would have him go there; and the antichrist appears in opposition to that. We see the development now.
Ques It is recorded of Stephen that his face shone as the face of an angel. What is the idea in that?
JT The heavenly thought is reflected in him.
JJ You were saying that the assembly has this government now, and yet the assembly does not govern. What would you say about that?
JT The assembly has it in the way of testimony — the direct government of God. There is also the indirect government of God which is providential, through angelic ministry. We have nothing to do with the governments of this world save praying for them, but the direct government of God is in the assembly.
JJ That is for testimony.
JT It is for testimony. The only part we have in the indirect government of God is we see God is in it through angelic ministry and we pray for kings in that light, but we do not deal with it directly at all. We should seek, however, to maintain the government of God within the circle of the saints; that is, where God governs directly; He is greatly to be feared in the assembly of His saints. There is a court of appeal which the saints can take up.
FWJ There is no delegated government in the assembly.
JT I think it is direct.
FWJ Would it be by the Spirit?
JT Quite. The Holy Spirit maintains the rights of God in the assembly; the conditions at Antioch would develop this. In Acts 11 we are told that Barnabas and Saul had ministered for a whole year [p. 104] in the assembly at Antioch, and the disciples were first called Christians there; there was complete identification with Christ. And then it says, “Now in these days prophets went down from Jerusalem to Antioch; and one from among them, by name Agabus, rose up and signified by the Spirit that there was going to be a great famine over all the inhabited earth, which also came to pass under Claudius”. Acts 11:27,28. Now that is governmental action. The dearth is not an action of the Spirit; it is a governmental action and it was intended to promote assembly or house conditions, which it did, so that those that were “well off” at Antioch determined they would send to the saints at Jerusalem, and they did so by the hand of Barnabas and Saul. So we see that the governmental action of God served to promote the direct action of the Spirit amongst the saints, that is, it drew out the sympathies of the saints at Antioch for those in Judaea. In result it bound up the Jew and Gentile together in a practical way, and therefore in chapter 13 the Holy Spirit is free to speak to the assembly. He says, “Separate me now Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them”. Acts 13:2 He is here personally to maintain the government and the service of God in this world, so that He asserts His rights. Levitical service is not carried on by angels but by the Spirit. It is a wonderful thing to see the direct government of God in the presence of the Spirit here in the Christian company.
Ques That is bound up with the development of affection, is it not?
JT My thought was that we should not be on the level of ordinary Christendom, of the current accredited religions in the world. The temple was twenty cubits wide, sixty cubits long, but the porch was one hundred and twenty cubits high, and that maintains the elevated thought that was to give character to all. Looking at that structure one [p. 105] would be impressed with its wonderful elevation. As to its position, it was “beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth”, Psalm 48:2 but think of the elevation of it as crowning mount Moriah!
RB Will not the sense of elevation give the saints the qualification to judge angels?
JT I think so. We have to see that Christ has gone above all the heavens, and that we are linked up with Him.
Ques Is that elevation suggested in Saul’s conversion?
JT Well, there was a light from heaven and a voice from heaven, and these had their effect upon Saul; he was to be the vessel for the forming of the assembly in its heavenly character; so that the calling of the vessel would give fitness for the service; he was to serve in that exalted way. He speaks of Jerusalem above.
AMH So your thought is that all this would preserve us from diplomacy — the human way of handling things. You have been speaking of administration on the line of carrying out divine principles amongst ourselves, but is there not something further suggested in Ephesians, where the influence of what is heavenly is felt in regard of movement here?
JT I am sure that is so. I have been interested in the way in which Luke would bring in the heavenly — that which is elevated. The angel says to Mary, “The power of the Highest shall overshadow thee”; Luke 1:35 not the power of God, but the power of the Highest; and then in chapter 2 it says, “Glory to God in the highest”. Luke 2:14. And again in chapter 10, “Rejoice, because your names are written in heaven” Luke 10:20 and in chapter 19, “I Glory in the highest”. Luke 19:38 Then in Acts, which is the counterpart of Luke, it is what is coming out of heaven that is in view, hence, “This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven”. Acts 1:11 Then we have a light from heaven, and a voice from heaven in chapter 9, and a sheet let down from heaven in chapter 10. It is what comes out from heaven, and all that enters into the truth of the house, the vessel of testimony here, and must necessarily lend a wonderful dignity to it.
PL Then there is power from on high in the end of Luke.
JJ The Lord is definitely seen on an elevated position in Matthew, Matthew 5:1; Matthew 28:16.
JT Quite.
FWJ What are the extraordinary occurrences you were speaking of?
JT Well, what has happened in our own times; the war, for example, which has become a means of drawing together the people of God. It has become a means of lifting saints who were sunk in national feelings out of such things, and leading them to discern that their brethren in other nations love them. This shows the importance of understanding the government of God; we see how it helps in our service.
FWJ Would the government of God in the assembly be purely moral government, and the government of God outside more what is external?
JT I think, as I said, what goes on outside is indirect. If it were direct, God would have to deal with things and set them aside, but He is dealing with them indirectly without committing Himself. He does commit Himself, however, to what is in the assembly, because the Holy Spirit is here; hence in the Acts when a man and woman come and lie to the Spirit they are impugning God. They might have gone to the Sanhedrim or to the emperor and done so and nothing might have happened, but they lie to the Spirit; that is, Satan is endeavouring to set aside the direct government of God in the assembly,
[p. 107] and God would not have it. So Ananias and Sapphira were smitten.
JJ Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego would not bow to the external authority and they get deliverance.
JT The Son of God joins them and that changes the whole position.
Ques Do you attach importance to the way the Lord meets the disciples in Matthew and changes the message of the angel, saying, “my brethren”, instead of “his disciples”, in view of the direct government of God in the assembly?
JT Well, quite. He meets them not in the same intimate way that you get in John, but more as a king would meet his parliament. Word is sent to them to go to Galilee and meet Him there. They go and they worship Him, and He says, “All power has been given me in heaven and upon earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations”.
PL Do you see the principle in the scattering of the Jews from Rome under the emperor’s decree? Aquila and Priscilla are brought down to Corinth in result.
JT And you get it in Jerusalem at the persecution after Stephen’s death, when all were scattered; the gospel was announced by those who were scattered.
PL We get it also with the Lord Himself in connection with the Roman census when Joseph and Mary went up to Bethlehem.
JJ In Matthew the nations maintain their distinctive character, do they not?
JT I think you have there the political divisions of the world, and God takes account of them. “Baptising them to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit”. They were to be baptised into the full light of God revealed in the three Persons.
[p. 108] Ques How would you view the Spirit of God in relation to the rights of God in service?
JT God has a right in service, and surely nothing could be more touching than that He should take up that attitude. Mark begins with the “gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God”; Mark 1:1 the Son has come in in service, and what comes out in the last chapter is, instead of an angel with a countenance like lightning we see a young man clothed in a white robe, and the gospel is to be announced to all the creation.
FWP How do you distinguish between the nations and the whole creation?
JT The more we know God the more we see that He could omit nothing. If He has come in in service to bring the knowledge of Himself to men, He omits nothing. Even a sparrow does not fall without Him. So that the gospel was to be announced to all the creation, and Paul says, speaking of the glad tidings, “which have been proclaimed in the whole creation”, Colossians 1:23.
FWP That would go beyond the intelligent creation?
JT I think so. Your very beast is affected if you become a Christian; you know how to use the creatures of God. “The whole creation groans together and travails in pain together until now”. Romans 8:22 “For the anxious looking out of the creature expects the revelation of the sons of God”. Romans 8:19 I suppose that the creation will come in in that way, as it does in principle mediately. The sons of God would not rest without everything being in accord with God. The more you understand sonship, the more you are sympathetic with God.
Rem The wild beasts are in the wilderness in Mark.
JT The whole creation is in the mind of God. He has not created anything for nothing; He created things for a purpose and for His glory: “For thy pleasure they are and were created”. Revelation 4:11 I only refer to it because it enters so much into the purpose of God. Then Luke has men, the whole race in view, and the remarkable thing is that when you have the three branches of the race set together in order, the African is placed first, that is the eunuch, then the Asiatic in Saul, and the European, or Japhethite, in Cornelius. That is how God looks at things; He reverses the order of history. The black man comes first because God would show that it is men that He has in mind, and He does not take man’s way of looking at them.
RB Then Luke would encourage you to evangelise the Africans?
JT Exactly. Having the knowledge of the government of God, you may discriminate. You know that the African has not been of special value in the house of God, but at the same time he is a man and so an object of the grace of God.
Rem It shows how necessary it is to have the truth of Matthew before we are ready to consider the truth of Mark and Luke.
JT I think so. The young man in white is Mark’s ideal of service. You have the energy of youth and the purity which should go with the service of God. The great thing in service is what one’s motives are. How easily our motives may be mixed. We are to have no double or personal motives. As Paul says, “We preach ... Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus’ sake”. 2 Corinthians 4:5 He had only one thing in view, that is, to serve the saints and to present Christ the Lord.
JJ Is that why we know less of Matthew and Mark than we do of Luke and John?
JT I dare say it is. I think that perhaps we have not made sufficient allowance for the government of God and the advantage which accrues to us from it on the one hand, and then from the peculiar [p. 110] kind of service which emanates from God Himself on the other. “The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God”. Mark 1:1 The Son has taken on the service and God comes in, in that way, in the Son to serve, so that everything is done perfectly. He serves in the same skill and wisdom as He made the world, and even in greater skill and wisdom than was seen in the making of the world.
TR In Luke and John we have all the sweet savour offerings, but no forsaking.
JT The man in the flesh is dealt with unsparingly in the forsaking of Christ in Matthew and Mark.
Ques What about the transfiguration?
JT Purity is seen in the whiteness in Mark’s account. I think the young man is the ideal. God takes up young men. They may have grown old in service, but God takes up men when they are young and the point is to be pure in your motives in taking up service. You do not wish to become anything in the eyes of men; you simply want to serve; as the Lord Himself said, “I am among you as he that serveth”. Luke 22:27. So that God came in in service — a wonderful fact for us — He had a right to do that, and He shows the way; hence the young man at the tomb is clothed in the white robe. Earlier he had just a piece of linen cast about his naked body, which was snatched away from him and he was left exposed, but now he is clothed in a white robe.
Ques Does the Lord take account of their under- standing in connection with service? “How is it that ye do not understand?” Mark 8:21.
JT You find in the end of Mark the Lord upbraids them with their unbelief; there is more emphasis there on the unbelief of the disciples than in the other gospels. We must believe if we are to be effective in service. The principle is, “I have believed, therefore have I spoken”, Psalm 116:10.
[p. 111] You must believe things, otherwise you become a mere clergyman giving out things for a salary: “He that believeth and is baptised shall be saved, and he that believeth not shall be condemned”. So He joins the eleven disciples while they sat at meat, and He upbraids them with their unbelief and hardness of heart.
JJ What is the difference between the Lord remaining in Matthew and going up in Mark? Does that illustrate the two points of government and service?
JT I think as remaining with us He supports us in the government. The government is said to be on His shoulder. It is not a simple thing to undertake government, so in Matthew 18 it says, “Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them”. Matthew 18:20 The maintaining of government is in view in that sense. He is with us always. So at the care meetings, where we come together to consider the interests of the Lord connected with the saints, I think the Lord is specially there to maintain government.
AMH Will you say a little more as to the thought of the rights of God in service?
JT He came in in Himself to serve. The gospels show how the Lord came in. “The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, Son of God”; Mark 1:1 not son of David. He came in immediately from God as Son. The Son serves; so that He carries out divine service before God here on man’s behalf. God had a right to do that. He had a right to come in in that way, and it is very touching that He did come in in that way. The subject is taken up in Isaiah 42; “Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth”. Isaiah 42:1 Then it is not only what you preach or teach, but how the thing is done, the purity, particularly the purity of motive, as in the white [p. 112] robe; that one is characterised all around by purity, so that the servant is to keep himself pure. One has really more need to look after oneself than to look after others.
PL Is the evidence of purity seen in the expression, “profitable to me for the ministry”? 2 Timothy 4:11.
JT Quite; Mark now had the “white robe”.