PREPARATION FOR ASSEMBLY FUNCTIONING
[p. 227] PREPARATION FOR ASSEMBLY FUNCTIONING
Luke 24: 28 - 43; John 20: 17 - 21
JT These scriptures have often been under consideration and are more or less familiar. They are proposed now to indicate preparation for the assembly in its active function. The first depicts the Lord as acting in a restorative way, but with a view to those restored being prepared for the assembly, more particularly in its public character or aspect. The second has the same thing in view but more from the purely spiritual standpoint. So we have the formal message sent through Mary, obviously a preparatory message, having in mind the Lord coming into the midst. So that the two taken together will enable us to view, with the Lord’s help, prophetically, what is needed for the public assembly and what is needed for it in its more private or purely spiritual relations and service. Preparation is needed for both, and we have divine preparation in these scriptures, that is, the Lord’s dealings with us in view of it and, correspondingly, there is the idea, too, of preparing ourselves.
WJH Would you not say that preparation marks divine operations from the outset?
JT Well, wisdom says that He prepared the heavens; had you that in mind?
WJH Quite so. There was definite preparation in relation to creation as also in all the word of God.
JT I think that is right. It applies particularly to the service of God as seen in the great skill and care exercised in Exodus in relation to the tabernacle, and in 1 and 2 Chronicles in relation to the temple. The preparation resulted in an opportunity for God to come in.
There is the principle in the scriptures of taking [p. 228] advantage of opportunities; God looks for opportunities and never fails to take advantage of them. So He says, “In all places where I shall make my name to be remembered, I will come unto thee, and bless thee” (Exodus 20: 24). The remembering of His name suggests condition. There I will come unto thee — there I will bless thee. In the tabernacle, following its parts being put together and anointed and each part functioning, the divine glory is seen; that is, an opportunity is afforded which God seizes. And so as the one note of the priests and singers went up, “For he is good, for his loving-kindness endureth for ever” (2 Chronicles 5: 13), that one note so intelligent, so appropriate, and so acceptable to Jehovah, then the glory fills the temple. In the first instance Moses could not enter to serve, and in the second the priests could not stand to do their service. Jehovah took advantage of the opportunity of filling the whole scene. He loves to show how He values the fruit of His own work as seen in His people. How He values them and has pleasure in them! And so in this instance in Luke 24 the opportunity was afforded, but the Lord had already anticipated it and had acted in a restorative way, first in His appearing to Peter, and then to those two going to Emmaus. The thing in view was that the condition should exist that did exist. That is, they were speaking about His appearing to Simon. “The Lord is indeed risen, and has appeared to Simon”, and then how He was made known to the others in the breaking of bread. Then He seized the opportunity; He had no doubt looked for it and waited for it to come in.
GCH Does this preparation to which you refer indicate that when the full position is reached, as set out in this twofold way, divine Persons are seen then in Their relative places, so that the service operates from that standpoint?
JT [p. 229] I thought we might see, if the Lord help us, that we are in the presence of an economy. Christianity involves an economy into which divine Persons have come. The One retains His place in the Deity in absoluteness, whilst the other two Persons have taken the place of servants or ministers. Preparation for the assembly involves that the Persons of the Deity should have scope to act as intended in the economy. It is not that we are brought into the presence of Deity in Its own absolute relations, but Deity has come out and established an economy for a purpose — an economy which may be intelligible to us. This economy is taking form now in the assembly. It will take a public form in the millennium and will go on to eternity, for it is never given up. It is intended to be intelligible to faith through understanding in His saints, so that as we are in the assembly, having been prepared, we give place to the conditions for the working out of this economy that we may see His end. The end is not man, but God.
GCH It involves, does it not, a downward movement on the part of divine Persons, involving revelation, and then the upward movement in response to what has been established?
JT That is the thought exactly. The apostleship of Christ stands related to the revelation of God. The high-priesthood of Christ stands in relation to the responses of man to God. That takes form now in the assembly, and hence the need for preparation so that we might each know how to take his place in the assembly and function in it.
JAB Would you say that the first movement with us is to intelligently find a place where the Lord would have us to be?
JT I think that is what Exodus indicates. You are struck with the great pains taken to ensure accuracy; everything is to be in accord with what [p. 230] was shown to Moses in the mount. The workmanship is effected by skilled persons filled with wisdom. So that not only are we told that things were to be made, but they were made, and were made exactly as God commanded them to be made, and that Moses passed them. They were brought to him and he passed each piece, showing that each was very good, and then he took them and set them up. As each piece was set up it was functioning, it was not inactive, meaning that the saints are set together locally, in spiritual intelligence, each functioning in his place. And as that proceeds the glory comes in. The glory in Exodus would be more the covenant glory. It comes in and fills the scene. The glory in Chronicles is on a higher level, I think, typically. It comes in, not simply as the parts of the temple were set up and the temple was completed, but as the voice of the singers singing and the priests trumpeting became as one. The glory entered and filled the house of God.
GCH Does Exodus in that way connect the movement of the glory with the covenant? It says that “the glory of Jehovah filled the tabernacle” (Exodus 40: 34), but in the building and dedication of the temple the name “Jehovah Elohim” is used frequently (see 2 Chronicles 6: 41). Does that indicate that there is full response and that the vessel was complete?
JT I think that is good. 1 Chronicles 17 would help in that in the varied appellations by which David addresses God as sitting before Him. He covers, you might say, all the titles of the Deity in approaching God. He had proposed to build a house, but Jehovah sends a message saying that Solomon is to build the house. Instead of being resentful, David accepts the position, and acts himself as son. He enters the house of God and sits there in liberty; God evidently encouraged this. The terms that he [p. 231] is able to use in addressing Deity are most suggestive. Finality was in David’s mind. God is to be the end of everything. So that 1 Chronicles 29 would follow David’s testimony in that way. The glory filled the house of God in 2 Chronicles 5: 13, 14 “when they lifted up their voice with trumpets, and cymbals, and instruments of music, and praised Jehovah: For He is good, for His loving-kindness endureth for ever; that then the house, the house of Jehovah, was filled with a cloud, and the priests could not stand to do their service because of the cloud; for the glory of Jehovah had filled the house of God”.
ESW Would you say a little more as to what preparation is required on our side to sustain the entrance to divine Persons?
JT That will take us a little too far at the moment. The first thing is the restorative preparation. In the last 100 years we have had this principle in great activity. It is the restorative service of Christ with a view to the assembly. That is what appears in Luke 24. What you get in the beginning of the chapter is that, whilst the women who saw where the Lord was placed in the tomb observed the sabbath according to the commandment, they were not believing as regards resurrection. I believe that applies in the history of the assembly: things were observed, there were certain observations according to the commandment, but there was lack of faith. The outward observance of things of God’s ordering without faith is really valueless and cannot effect what is in God’s mind. I believe that is what existed, and perhaps exists today. There was considerable recognition of the commandments, but want of faith. The women did not believe that the Lord would rise. They came with spices to anoint Him as if He were not going to rise. It was the observance of a commandment with the dead [p. 232] Christ, but a living Christ is needed for the service of God. And so the Lord commences this great restorative service here in going on the way to Emmaus to intercept those that were going away. They were full of thoughts about Christ and could speak a good deal about Him, and were dejected because of what had happened, but they were going away from the centre. Saints generally have gone away from the centre; they have turned to other things besides Jerusalem, to other systems, and the Lord has been and is operating to restore them, and that is what these verses we have read bring to our attention. How successful He was! He brought them back, not in any arbitrary way, but in the most skilful manner, appearing in the breaking of bread.
EF Do you think that, in the course of this preparation, we all have to come into personal contact with Christ, and do you think the Lord takes this matter up in view of restoration to the divine centre?
JT That is how the chapter stands. It says, “Behold, two of them were going on the same day to a village distant sixty stadia from Jerusalem, called Emmaus”. They were going away. Possibly they would settle down in their old town, and start business there, and all that they had had to do with would fade away. The Lord knew there was something in their souls, that is, they were real at bottom. I believe that is the position today. The Lord is intercepting and restoring this and that one so as to prepare him for the assembly. It is not only to restore them to Jerusalem, which was the divine centre, but that they might be prepared for the assembly. They showed that this was effective, for when they returned they spoke about the breaking of bread.
RS Do you think in going away they [p. 233] would miss the present position of the Lord on high?
JT Yes, they would miss everything. The Lord was operating in Jerusalem. According to Luke the operations went on in Jerusalem. According to Matthew they would go on in Galilee. Emmaus was outside the range of divine operations. They might carry a good deal of information, but they were going entirely out of the range of divine operations. That is how thousands and thousands of the Lord’s people are today. The Lord is working to get them into the realm of the divine operations, and the assembly is the centre of it.
NBS Would the making as if He would go further, be a test as to whether they would settle down without Him?
JT Just so. He would indicate that He was a Man of affairs, so to speak. The Lord is like Joseph of old — the man of affairs. He is conducting great affairs. He made as though He would have gone further, as much as to say, ‘I have affairs beyond this’. But He gave them opportunity to constrain Him, showing that He is capable of being constrained, but all the time with one end in view, that is restoration.
GAvS Would you say that in acting in that way He was really counting upon what He knew; He was operating in their hearts when they were going to Emmaus?
JT Their hearts were capable of burning. “Was not our heart burning in us as he spoke to us on the way?” They were converted people, capable of that. Without that there is no hope, unless their hearts could warm up under the influence of His speaking.
WJH By going away, such miss the forty days in which He assembled with them, which was a wonderful experience.
JT Quite so. They were really going outside [p. 234] the range of what He was doing. He said nothing about Emmaus in His remarks to them. Jerusalem is the centre. Luke says Jerusalem. They were going away from Jerusalem.
GAvS Would the Supper test us as to where we really are as to understanding the mind of the Lord for this occasion?
JT Quite so. Many of us come and sit down, and our hearts are incapable of being set on fire or being affected. It is the state of our hearts. They came back, we are told, the same hour.
WWW Their hearts, then, were in better condition than their feet.
JT That is right. For the moment they were. He knew that. You may be sure He had a good time opening up the Scriptures to them. I think the Lord had a good time. If there is any attachment of heart we shall enjoy the opening up of the Scriptures. How they would love to hear what He said about the ark in Exodus and the glory of the tabernacle. He knew their heart was burning, and that would encourage Him to go on. He had the end in mind. As has often been the case, you meet a christian and he listens to you. His heart is burning and you are encouraged to go on. You do not commit yourself to him. That is, your occupation is wider. Those who are intelligent as to the assembly are on a wide basis; never narrowed up. The Lord made as though He would have gone further. He was a Man of many affairs. But He was ready to go in if conditions warranted it. The conditions did warrant it for His purpose.
JRB Did the Lord indicate this when asking, “Who do men say that I the Son of man am?” (Matthew 16: 13).
JT Well, I think He wanted to bring out what was current so as to show that the testimony was not really being effective in a public way. That is,
[p. 235] the generality of the Jews was not affected. There was no hope of restoring the position of Israel. His question was to bring that out, I think. So that the next thing can come out, the assembly. It is essential; you must have it. The public do not grasp it at all. They had respectful thoughts and were not opposed, but they did not have the idea.
GAvS Was His being known to them in the breaking of bread to induce them to return to the centre in which He was operating?
JT That is how it stands exactly. They were talking about that. He intended, I believe, that they should grasp something about the breaking of bread. The Lord’s supper is taken by many as a sacrament. Those taking it may be the Lord’s, and we must have respect for them, but the breaking of bread belongs properly to another place; no sect can be equal to it or great enough for it. It belongs to another place. So they went back to Jerusalem and found the eleven. Every one should go where the authority of the Lord is owned.
JJJ In recognising Him, would they say He was the Man of sorrows?
JT You can understand that what He was was in their minds. “He would go further”, it is said. But He is gone. Where has He gone? That would fill their minds. He disappeared from them. Where is He? They did not lose time on that point; the conclusion which the Lord intended arises in their minds at once. They went back to the centre.
GAvS Would it mean that the glory would not properly fill the house until they returned?
JT The thought is initial preparation, so He appeared to Simon and to these two. It does not tell us how He appeared to Simon. It is a simple statement, “The Lord is indeed risen and has appeared to Simon”. That is what they were saying in the gathering. He intended that as a result. He [p. 236] knows the end from the beginning, and in restoring anyone He intends that that one should contribute his quota, and He knows what is the need. They were speaking about this time, “how he was made known to them in the breaking of bread”. That was another thing the Lord intended as essential to his appearing, coming in and filling the place. The first thing is for a recovered christian to find the eleven, which means those who represent the Lord’s authority, and the place where the Lord’s authority is maintained. We will never be right until we go to them.
Ques Would you say that the result of the Lord’s service to the two going to Emmaus would connect them with what is living?
JT Quite so, it would. The first thing is where the eleven are. The point in the eleven is that they represent the Lord’s authority. This is a broken number, of course, as is the case today. While greatly decimated, yet there is that which recognises the Lord’s authority, and that is the first thing. Until that is reached there is no hope of anyone having any part in the assembly. They found the eleven. They were to be found, and they found them that very night.
GCH Would the Lord interpreting the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures lead to Him acquiring a place amongst His own? He first establishes authority and then comes into their home in nearness to them, in favourable conditions to lead them on still further with the assembly in view.
JT So He took the bread, we are told; the same word is used in the institution of the Lord’s supper. It says, “he entered in to stay with them”, meaning that He accepts their invitation. “And it came to pass as he was at table with them, having taken the bread, he blessed, and having broken it, gave it to them”. He had caused their hearts to burn, so that [p. 237] they constrain Him to stay, and He comes in to stay. It is not that they set a meal for Him by Himself, but He was at table with them. Joseph had his brethren dining alone; they were at different tables in the dining hall. Joseph is at a distance from his brethren at the meal. The Lord here does not take up that attitude. He is getting at their hearts, sitting at the table with them. This is their affair. He is with them, and He takes the bread, exactly what He did in the upper room in Jerusalem, and He gave thanks and gave it to them. It says “he blessed, and having broken it, gave it to them”. So He is before them as He had been earlier in His own realm in the upper room. Now He is in their house, but He is doing the same thing.
GCH I wonder if the Lord would draw near in their own homes to souls who are not clear as to their place in the assembly and provide ministry there too.
JT I think the Lord would stress, in recovery, the importance of the believer’s household. It is part of the testimony for God. I believe it comes under the heading of a “clean place”, and the Lord would so regard the house of a christian. We say, He is not breaking bread, but the Lord knows the end from the beginning. He deals with us from His own point of view, and if He enters into a christian house it is because it would afford Him more scope than the roadside would; there is something distinctive in it that God has put there. And so it was with Zacchaeus; the Lord knew that man’s heart and that he wanted to know who He was. He was concerned about the Person of Christ. The Lord knows what is current in every one of us. He is seeking the company of each one and knows just what is in the heart, and if that one is a married person and has a house He will come into that house. He would say ‘I will respect your house’.
He says to Zacchaeus, “make haste and come down, for today I must remain in thy house”. The Lord knew exactly what to do. Zacchaeus acted exactly as the Lord desired. He entered into his house bringing salvation to it. “To-day salvation is come to this house”. That was the effect — anybody with eyes to see, saw. It brought out what the man was. Undoubtedly, the presence of the Lord in his house made him feel more than he could have anywhere else. He says in the house, “if I have taken anything from any man by false accusation, I return him fourfold”. That is what the house is and what the Lord is, indeed. Here in Luke 24 it is what their house was, and what He could do there.
GCH The breaking of bread is really what takes place now in the assembly?
JT Well, it was a suggestion of it. It was not, of course, the assembly, but the house afforded Him an opportunity to suggest the assembly to them.
ESW Does the Lord take advantage of our households to teach us what is proper to the assembly?
JT That is what I was thinking we might get at, the preparatory idea, the lines on which the Lord is moving in this great service of recovery. After He gets in the house, there are conditions there which He can use to a certain point but not beyond that. It says, “their eyes were opened;” not just that He showed Himself, for He disappeared. That is, there is an action of God current. Their eyes were opened and they recognised Him. While He entered in to stay with them He has no thought of remaining there once they recognise Him. The point was to reach this and as soon as it is reached He departs.
JGH He vanished out of their sight.
JT They knew Him. That means that every christian has some knowledge of the Lord. They [p. 239] had special knowledge because they were two that had been with Him.
GAvS Was not what He did in giving thanks and breaking the bread reminiscent of the Supper?
JT I think so. One, if not both, had undoubtedly been at the Supper, and had undoubtedly seen Him break the bread before and give thanks. He would always do it, I suppose, at meals with them; it was a very familiar action. They knew Him in that way. It was not only that the action thus disclosed Him, but their eyes were opened. There was an action in them too.
JAB We might have a very definite sense of the Lord in our houses, but that would only encourage us to find the place in which He would have us to be.
JT That is the idea. The believer’s house is a divine institution, the household of faith, but it is a stepping-stone to what is greater.
GCH I was wondering in that way if the language of the Song of Songs would fit in with this, “Tell me, thou whom my soul loveth” (Song of Songs 1: 7).
JT Very good.
ESW Thus the Lord, taking the bread, suggests that there was something in the believer’s household that He could use for His purpose.
JT Well, that is very evident here. He took the bread. Someone may say, ‘Well, this is just what He did in the upper room’. It ought to be observed that in the upper room probably there was more bread than the one loaf, and in the house here probably more bread than one loaf. In either case there is the idea of detachment from something else.
GAvS And so is that also necessary, if we are to have assembly conditions?
JT Well, quite so. There is a detachment, which [p. 240] is another feature of recovery, that the Lord’s supper has its proper setting. It has a setting all of its own: it is neither the upper room with the passover supper present, nor the believer’s house where his own supper might be present. It belongs to the assembly. In the early days they had it in relation to their own houses, but under Paul the Lord’s supper was formally detached from the households of the saints. He said “Have ye not houses to eat in?” And he would detach household conditions from the assembly. The bread is the centre of a new system, and it is only this particular bread that He takes, so Paul calls it “this bread”.
Ques Why is the cup absent here?
JT Well, you could not go that far in the believer’s house. You could not go as far as the covenant. The house of the believer is hardly equal to that. It involves the Supper.
WWW Would you say in the household the Lord comes to our circumstances, whereas in the assembly we go to His?
JT That is right. The assembly is His. “My assembly”.
JAB Would the thought of being where the eleven apostles are make for subjection to the Lord and love for the Lord?
JT That is right. And then the next thing is what they are saying there. If you go into a sectarian assembly, what are they talking about? They are bringing forward scriptures which they think support their sectarian position. I am not attacking any — only seeking to illustrate their assembly. The synod is to regulate things relative to that system and it is very probable that is what they are talking about normally. If you sit down amongst them, what are they saying? It is so with every sect.
RS I understand the meaning of the word Simon is ‘hearing’. He would speak as he heard, would you say.
JT Well, that is true. The Lord had appeared to him. He is called by his responsible name here, Simon. But I was speaking about what people say in their assemblies. What do the brethren, say? Here it says they were saying that “the Lord is indeed risen”. There is no question about it, they are sure of it. It is not a mere question of creed or mere doctrine, but a fact. They are occupied with facts and with principles. “The Lord is indeed risen and has appeared to Simon”, and the fact that He had appeared to Simon was proof that He was risen. As risen He is graciously on the restoring line. The next thing is that the other two said that He was made known to them in the breaking of bread. “And as they were saying these things” the Lord stood in their midst. The glory, as it were, came in.
Ques Would you say this is secured in the Philadelphian assembly?
JT Well, we were saying previously that the message in John 20 links on peculiarly with the overcomer in Philadelphia, and the overcomer in any assembly represents the principles set out in the letter to that assembly. He values the principles and truth relative to that assembly, and the Lord speaks to the overcomer four times of “my God”. A very remarkable thing because I think He indicates that in the overcomer in our time you will find a recognition of God as Christ’s God. He is apprehended as Christ’s God.
WJH Would you say a little as to what that conveys to your own heart?
JT Well, I think it is God in the full thought of how man should know Him. It is more than God in the covenant; it is God as Christ knows Him. It must carry with it the absolute thought - [p. 242] that is how I understand it. He counts on the overcomer in Philadelphia to value and understand that.
Rem Thomas had said, “My Lord and my God”. He had to see Him before he believed.
JT Quite so. He said that to Christ. He called Christ his God, and that is to say he apprehended His deity. But then Jesus says “my God” in the message to His brethren in John 20, and in the letter to Philadelphia he addressed the overcomer and used the phrase “my God” four times. That is a very significant thing and I think it points to what the Lord has been drawing our attention to, that the end of all things is God. It is God known as Christ knows Him, not only what He is in creation or redemption, but what He is to Christ. It is Christ only who has the full thought of God, Christ as Man.
GCH Does Luke present God in regard to covenant relations and this sets us free to go further; the Father is seen in John and at the end the Lord speaks of “my Father and your Father ... my God and your God”.
JT Well, I think that is right. It is generally so that Luke is concerned about the public order and service of the assembly, whereas the purely spiritual side is implied in John’s narrative.
GCH The thought of God being beyond that of Father is probably new to many or us. We have thought that the Father was the greatest and the final thought.
JT Well, I am sure it is not so. The Father is a more limited thought and the thought that enters into the economy. We are baptised unto the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. But where the Lord says “my Father and your Father ... my God and your God”, that is the order in which the truth is developed, showing that the end is God; God is all and [p. 243] in all.
GCH Would you suggest God as in relation to the covenant and also the Father’s name are both mediatorially expressed, but that God in the absolute is more than a mediatorial position?
JT Well, it is as Christ knows Him, according to all that He is. We, of course, can never grasp it as Christ grasped it. But what it is to be alongside of Him! He sent a message before to prepare them, to enable them to stand alongside of Him. We take our place alongside of Him and wait for Him to lead us.
GAvS Do you imply there is a special place to which He leads those who thus stand alongside of Him?
JT I think that is the trend of the truth. If you listen to Him speaking to God you get some thought of God, not only in His covenant relation, but in His absolute relation, how Christ knows Him. It is most significant that He says it four times over to the overcomer in Philadelphia.
GCH Is the knowledge of God, in the way in which you have been calling attention to it, connected with His place in regard to the assembly?
JT It clearly is. “Of him, and through him, and for him are all things” (Romans 11: 36), that enters into this message. In the Lord’s mind God was the end of all that He had been doing, and now He is going up on high, ascending to “my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God”. What He had in mind when He came amongst them was that they would be prepared to take their place alongside of Him. It is the pattern for the assembly worked out under Paul; it is under Paul’s ministry that you get all this. I do not think the ministry of the twelve reached it at all. Peter never mentions the Son of God in his ministry except in the reference to the mount of transfiguration. It was not that he did not know, but he knew how to keep [p. 244] things and leave them with the vessel that God intended to use.
LS Would “to him be glory in the assembly” have this in view?
JT That is right. “To him be glory in the assembly in Christ Jesus unto all generations of the age of ages” (Ephesians 3: 21). That is the climax reached in the assembly and that is under Paul.
JAB The Lord identifies Himself with such a company as is seen in Luke 24.
JT Well, in Luke you have the public aspect, and what they are saying, but in John they are not saying anything; there it is the spiritual side. It is very striking in John. Lazarus never said anything as far as Scripture goes, not that he never spoke, but see what he is in the testimony, what an effect he had; so the spiritual side makes room for silence. It is a question of being in the assembly to contemplate what is presented to us.
GAvS What is the relation of 1 Corinthians 15: 28, “that God may be all in all”, to what you have referred to as Christ’s God?
JT Well, I think that helps as to what we are saying. That gives the end: Christ is subject to Him who is God and Father. He takes His Place in that way, but then it goes on to say that God may be all, as an object, and in all. The preposition implies that He is in all in power, filling all things in power. That is the end. It must be good. Everything is filled by God.
ESW What part has seeing the Lord in this? Mary told the disciples that she had seen the Lord. They also rejoiced at having seen Him.
JT Very much. That brings out another thing the ability to see things, to discern the Lord. John says, “It is the Lord”. He had discernment and power to see that it was the Lord. He says to Simon in the boat, “It is the Lord”. So that when He [p. 245] comes in in relation to the Supper you see Him; it is an entirely spiritual matter.
GAvS Does that lead on to the living God you were speaking of elsewhere?
JT Well, it does, only I think “the living God” is a relative term having death in mind, particularly in religious circles. God by Himself, spoken of as Christ’s God, is God who is known eternally. The Son is placed in subjection to Him who put all things in subjection to Him; then comes the end, that God will be all in all. That is the end of things.
JGH The Lord uses the same word on the cross. “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me”?
JT Yes, there you have Him using it again. He is using it there, of course, as dealing with sin, but in the assembly it is His God, but not as dealing with sin, but in His own relation as Christ’s God. It is what we shall be engaged with forever.
DJM You spoke about the Lord being alongside the disciples. Does the Lord give us strength to take that exalted place?
JT Well, that is another thing, to be sustained there. Hebrews shows the means whereby we can be sustained there. It says “having”, which is a characteristic word in Hebrews. “Having therefore, brethren, boldness for entering into the holy of holies by the blood of Jesus, the new and living way which he has dedicated for us through the veil, that is, his flesh, and having a great priest over the house of God, let us approach” (Hebrews 10: 19 - 21). That is, the means is furnished for sustaining us in the presence of God in the sanctuary. We are to be sustained there.
EF Would being strengthened with might by His Spirit also enter into [p. 246] this?
JT Quite so. I was thinking of that; that is in the inner man.
JAB Referring to preparation, Mary has something to learn before she is equal to carrying the great message given her. Would you suggest that we also have something to learn before we take up our relationships in a spiritual setting?
JT Exactly. With her, as with the two, the preparation develops out of restoration. Restoration really applied to Mary, too. Although she was very affectionate, she was very dark in her soul. She thought the Lord was dead, when He was alive, and kept on at it. So that both she and the two going to Emmaus serve to show us how the Lord causes restorative service to become light as to the assembly. She had the light of His Person as ascending to His Father and her Father, to His God and her God. So that you can understand what an atmosphere her message, as delivered, would produce in the company. And so it is that every truly restored person is prepared for the assembly and contributes to it. Recovery implies preparation for the assembly.
LS And would the normal result be what was referred to as glory to God, the normal occupation of the vessel?
JT That is the thought. So you find throughout Luke constantly that they glorified God.
GS Could you tell us where Matthias comes in in the broken state of things?
JT The Lord restores the position through him: he became an apostle. The Lord wrought here with men as He found them in relation to Israel. It terminated with a breach, that is, Judas was lost. The Scripture had foretold it. It was intended of God that it should be so. But the new system, that is, the system in which we are, could not properly begin with a broken number. It begins with a [p. 247] complete number, and that is the first thing that occupies the brethren. Peter says in his speech among the brethren, “It is necessary therefore, that of the men who have assembled with us all the time in which the Lord Jesus came in and went out among us, beginning from the baptism of John until the day in which he was taken up from us, one of these should be a witness with us of his resurrection” (Acts 1: 21, 22). A fine speech that was! Well, they chose two and cast lots and the lot came upon Matthias and he was numbered with the eleven. So that when Peter stands up to preach for the first time, Matthias is there.
Rem Does what has been said correspond with the provision of material for the completion of the tabernacle and also for the temple; nothing was lacking?
JT Yes, it is in relation with the princely side. The assembly is composed of men and women, old and young, and each cost the same. The boards are all socketed with silver — representing the cost of the saints. “The rich shall not give more, and the poor shall not give less” (Exodus 30: 15). It is a common ground we are on. That is the position of the assembly publicly, but then we must make room for spiritual formation, and that is what develops in the kings and princes. It is a question of David, for instance, providing a hundred thousand talents of gold. How much did Paul provide? and how much did Peter provide? Thus it is a question of spiritual formation. A man is worth what he is and if he has a hundred thousand talents of gold, he is worth it. You have to recognise a man according to what he is, so that the fact that I am breaking bread is not everything. It is a question of spirituality. In speaking to young people, Isaiah 44: 4, 5 is most significant; it says that the children “shall spring up among the grass, as willows by the water-courses” and presently one of them says, “I am Jehovah’s; and another shall call himself by the name of Jacob; and another ... surname himself by the name of Israel”. Well, that means he is going to be a prince, and every young christian should have that prominently before him. That is what I am going to be; I am coming into the fellowship, that is, consciously. You may get on a bit and surpass others; the one who describes himself as Israel says, ‘I am going to be a spiritual man’. That is what counts in the assembly and that is what counts in eternity, too, for it is a question of our measure.
LS The Lord’s message to the brethren that they are His brethren would prepare for such a service.
JT I think that is it. The message would be light in their souls, and if the Lord came in you can understand that the light would operate. He says in John, “Peace be to you”, and it says “they rejoiced”. That is, things are normal in John. He is entitled to view us abstractly. God is entitled to do that. He views things abstractly, and shuts out fleshly things for the moment. The Lord would enable us to view saints as entirely in relation to His work in them. They gladly received the Lord, and then the Lord says the second time, “Peace be to you”. As much as to say, ‘I can commit Myself entirely to you’, and then He breathes into them and says, “Receive the Holy Spirit”.
Ques You referred last night to the principle of being shown a thing. Is that something that we should be ready for?
JT Well, that is another thing, readiness to be shown a matter. The Lord is ready to show you. Indeed, that is what comes out in David in that the foundation of the house is shown. God shows you what it really is. All along things are shown to us, as to what they really are.
Ques Are we to understand by what has been [p. 249] said, that we can enter into the knowledge of God beyond what is mediatorial?
JT I do not think we can grasp anything without the mediatorial service of Christ, because if you are standing alongside the Lord, and if He is speaking to God, you are learning through Him. You are grasping the thing through Him; so that we see Him pray alone in a certain place. Well, how would He pray to God? The person who saw Him was impressed by that. What a thing it was to see Him praying. Following this they said, “teach us to pray”.
GAvS Would you say in that connection that when Mary said “Rabboni” He recognised the state and condition in which He could make a disclosure of this nature?
JT Quite so. It was a word of her own. She was appropriating Him as her Teacher; it was not ‘Rabbi’, but “Rabboni”. The Lord saw that she was getting on.
WJH It would seem that the Lord used these two expressions, “My Father”, “My God”, while in flesh and blood but there is no evidence of any one sharing them until after His resurrection and in view of His ascending.
JT No. It is very remarkable that it says He was praying alone, and yet they were all around Him. It was His own action. The relation was exclusive to Himself until He died and went up into heaven. John 20 anticipates the ascension.