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THE SERVICE OF CHRIST IN LEADERSHIP (2)

SMcC What we are considering together is the service of Christ in leadership in relation to His own, specially having in mind what they are as the flock, subjects of care and administrative service in that relation; and also how the spirit works out amongst us. It is thought that we should go over to the Old Testament to amplify these thoughts which appear in different ones. The first one coming up for our consideration is Joseph, a unique type of Christ, whose history affords us help as to what should mark ourselves as the Spirit of Christ is made room for amongst us. And what we should keep in mind in these two passages is Joseph’s personal attractiveness, and how the love side is stressed immediately Joseph comes into our view. Nothing more is said either, after that, as to the others. Time elapses before they are brought into view in the genealogy, in the generations of Jacob. The moral history that ensues is covered before we get the generations again. Then we should see the way Joseph’s service takes form, and the sufferings that it entailed for him, as the chapter unfolds. Then in chapter 41 we see that the winter is past, the time of suffering for Joseph is over; he is in the exalted place in glory. And we see how the subject again touches Paul’s ministry in the way that the administrative service works out; cities coming onto our view, and the assembly formally in type in Asnath. The meanings of the names of the sons bring before us what the type in Asnath is meant to convey, specially the thought of what there is for Christ as a result of all His toil and suffering, and also the matter of forgetfulness, as we have often dwelt on it and been taught in regard to it, the ability to eliminate certain circumstances from our minds as in Manasseh. Ephraim represents the great result for God from the great administrative power that is linked with Joseph, his commandment regulating everything; for it was according to Joseph’s commandment that all the people were to regulate themselves, the working out of it involving great blessing for the saints in the type.

We should keep before us in chapter 37 how Joseph comes into our view; the first thing said about him is, “Joseph, being seventeen years old, fed the flock with his brethren.” What a great personality Joseph is! We are going to hear much about him in the succeeding chapters according to the holy record, but the first and prime thing that is said about him is that he fed the flock with his brethren. Even before we get a reference to Israel’s love for him, and to the vest of many colours, we get this reference to what Joseph was constitutionally in his care for the saints. I suppose in the type the Lord Jesus would come into our view as having the saints at heart immediately, as if they have such a prime place in His mind and in His heart.

GWB Would Peter standing up with the eleven be akin to what is in your mind as to feeding the flock with his brethren?

SMcC I think that there it is the preaching, public testimony in the preaching, not quite the feeding of the flock. Peter standing up with the eleven, of course, would carry the principle that comes into all ministry.

OVR Is Paul’s word to the elders of Ephesus on this line of shepherding the flock?

SMcC Yes it is. The whole of Acts 20 is filled with this thought.

WJB Would you say that it should be on the heart of every brother, and sister too, that the flock should be fed?

SMcC The Spirit of Christ operating among the brethren would be marked by that feature: care for the saints, how they are getting on.

FB And the flock is fed, over against the prevailing conditions of chapter 36. It says at the end of chapter 35: “And Isaac expired and died, and was gathered to his peoples, old and full of days. And his sons Esau and Jacob buried him.” Then we have the generations of Esau, that is Edom, and the fathers, and the sons, and the daughters, and the chiefs, and the kings, all coming in in relation to Esau; and it is with these conditions around that Joseph fed the flock with his brethren.

SMcC So that you get a great range of human administrative glory in chapter 36, but the wrong kind of administrative glory. And one of the remarkable things about it is the many times that it is mentioned that they died, certain ones died; as if that shadow lies across that administrative system, the chiefs of Edom, a counter administrative system you might say, in which the glory of man is exploited. When we come to chapter 37, we get a different side: “And Jacob dwelt in the land where his father sojourned, in the land of Canaan.” We get the great line of the testimony coming into view, “where his father sojourned, in the land of Canaan.” Verse 1 would represent well-known ground to faith, well-known territory to faith. Then we get the generations of Jacob, and they finish with Joseph, as if the prime matter on hand is now Joseph.

JGH The first mention as to David is feeding the sheep.

SMcC Yes, we shall come to that. It marks all these great men of God. That is, linked with administrative ability in the Old Testament, is an underlying love and respect for the saints. It is invariable in the Old Testament, right from Abraham onwards, that linked with every feature of administrative ability in the persons who are brought into view in the testimony, is this great matter of love and care for the flock.

RCMcC Is it worthy of note that he is doing service with the sons of Bilhah and with the sons of Zilpah, you might say the least of the brethren?

SMcC Yes, it is interesting, in relation to that, that he fed the flock with his brethren. That is the first underlying thought: his brethren, the family idea. John’s ministry would help us as to the family idea which underlies everything. But then the different mothers come up; I mean what has been produced as the result of the different mothers would come into our view: “and he was doing service with the sons of Bilhah, and with the sons of Zilpah, his father’s wives. And Joseph brought to his father an evil report of them.” That is, ‘their evil discourse,’ showing that coupled with this care for the flock is this discernment of evil, and the recoiling from it, with Joseph.

JC Joseph was the son of Jacob and Rachel, a, shepherd and shepherdess. Would that suggest that these features amongst the saints would produce seed of this character, if the features of a shepherd are in expression amongst the brethren?

SMcC So “the Jerusalem above is free, which is our mother.” Galatians 4: 26. If we are formed by that mother, what holy liberty we shall be in! If we are under the influence of that mother, we shall never be in bondage. If we are in bondage, it is because we have come under the influence of Hagar.

JD Would there be some help afforded in the fact that Joseph is doing something here? But in regard to the evil report he speaks of to his father, he is not trying to correct the brethren, is he?

SMcC Well it is a very interesting thing. It was not his prime matter. It is an awful thing if looking out evil becomes our prime matter. The prime matter is feeding the flock. We are not here to search out evil. The evil comes to light and Joseph takes account of it; but he is not searching it out. He is feeding the flock, and it comes to light.

JD And are there deep feelings underlying this? I was thinking of Paul speaking of Timothy’s tears; and he could also speak of one who cared with genuine feelings how the saints get on.

SMC How important it is! We deal with evil of course when it comes out, but it is not the prime matter with us to search out evil. Joseph was not doing that, he was feeding the flock, and what comes to light he takes account of. Every one of us should have a moral judgment as to evil. It is important that the young people be faithful in regard to evil and eschew it.

PB Though Paul saw the evil that was connected with the Galatians, he was prepared to be a mother to them until Christ be formed again in them. Is that the idea?

SMcC Think of the sufferings of Paul in view of the saints coming into the truth! It was not only that Paul gave addresses and took readings; he could do that as no one else could, great minister as he was. But think of the pressure and the sufferings behind his ministry, that the saints might come into the liberty of the truth!

ATG Does the brotherly feature shine out in Joseph, that he is prepared to tell his brethren of his dreams in confidence, despite his judgment of them; that it does not hinder his liberty with them in that way?

SMcC Well it is remarkable, it hinders their liberty with him. It says they “could not greet him with friendliness.” But what was in Joseph’s heart was towards all; he was representing his father, he represents God. Think of the Lord Jesus among the Jews; how He waited upon them in His teaching! “He came to his own, and his own received him not; but as many as received him, to them gave he the right” (the right to take that place) “to be children of God,” John 1: 11, 12. Think of His patient service and toil among the Jews in John’s gospel!

JHH You would say that it was not in the favour of his brethren that he could not find where they were feeding the flock? He seemed to have difficulty in finding where they were feeding the flock.

SMcC Why should we be difficult to locate? I mean in meetings like this, why should we be difficult to locate, if we are all on the line of feeding the flock? Saul hid behind the baggage, he was difficult to locate; but if we are with God and have the flock at heart, we shall not be difficult to locate.

JC Is the spirit of mutuality a qualification for service in the way of feeding, he was with his brethren?

SMcC Yes exactly, with his brethren, not over them. Although what comes in in the dreams shows what divine sovereignty would bring about; but the first thing that is said of him is that he was with his brethren. I think that is an important feature in our local gatherings; when persons assume to be above their brethren, they always get into trouble, it always ends in disaster.

CW Moses, in his petitioning God for the people, desired that his name should be blotted out. I was wondering whether that would help us in relation to what you are saying, the spirit of it?

SMcC What a spirit of Christ was there! What a man Moses was! Amongst men, outside of Jesus, he had no equal, as far as greatness goes. He was prepared to lay down his life for the saints. I think we want, in our local gatherings, to look out with holy regard upon the brethren, especially those who serve or have anything to do with activities among the brethren; that they should never allow for a moment anything that service puts upon them to give them any thought that they are above their brethren.

JHH Would Paul speaking to the Galatians help? “Be as I am, for I also am as ye, brethren,” Galatians 4: 12.

SMcC Very good. It is remarkable how he can say that. And he says in 1 Corinthians 15, “But by God’s grace I am what I am.” Why should we try to make ourselves what we are not? Why not make room for the work of God to express itself, and whatever we have acquired with God in the way of personality, let that express itself, not try to be something that we are not.

CTMcC In Acts 9 the first verse says, “But Saul still breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord,” then he comes in touch with the Lord Himself and in verse 19 it says, “And he was with the disciples who were in Damascus certain days.” Is that the kind of conversion we all need?

SMcC Yes. Paul gets a peculiar impression at the beginning, of the greatness of the brethren. The Lord said, “But rise up and enter into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.” Not that he was to tell the brethren what to do, but he was to be told what he must do. I think we should be careful of taking the position of telling the brethren what they have to do; I mean in the sense in which we are referring to it.

CEJ Would the word in Mark 10 help in regard of what we are saying? The Lord says, “but it is not thus among you; but whosoever would be great among you, shall be your minister; and whosoever would be first of you shall be bondman of all. For also the Son of man did not come to be ministered to, but to minister, and give his life a ransom for many.” Verses 43 - 45.

SMcC Very good, showing the great Model the Lord has left us. There is plenty of room on that line amongst the brethren, to serve them in the spirit of lowliness that marked the Son of Man. So that Christ comes into our view in a choice and peculiar way here. We want to make room for the Spirit to bring Christ into the view of our souls. It says, “And Israel loved Joseph more than all his sons, because he was son of his old age; and he made him a vest of many colours.” We are reminded thus of the closing phases of the testimony in Genesis, and what marks the closing phases of the testimony in Genesis and Jacob’s old age are these peculiar references to spiritual attractiveness in Jacob and Joseph and Benjamin, the love side being stressed, corresponding with John’s ministry.

EH It says in verse 2 that Joseph fed the flock. What was it about the flock that made him feed them?

SMcC Why the possibilities and potentialities, and what they were as belonging to Jacob, what the saints are. Think of how the Lord Jesus speaks to God the Father in John 17 about the saints in the light of what they had been to the Father, and what the Father had given to Him, and how He says that He had guarded them. He had lost none of them, save the son of perdition.

EMW So that the note to the word ‘fed’ here is “was tending.” It goes further than merely feeding.

SMcC It involves caring, tending, standing by.

WHF In John 6, the feeding of the large crowd, the Lord knew what He was going to do, but at the end of that chapter there is reference to Judas who was to betray Him. Does the Lord take account of the saints as to their tremendous possibilities for God, notwithstanding what may be amongst us?

SMcC So that all through John’s gospel our eye is kept on that, on what the saints are in the divine mind; so that whole chapters are devoted to the service which the Son of God expended on one such as John 4, John 9, John 21, all reminding us of the greatness of the personnel of the assembly in the type.

PRP Would this bring out the characteristic family features manifested in a young person?

SMcC It would, and it is important that the family side should be understood, because the basis of confidence is in the family side. There is nothing worse than a lack of confidence amongst us. If we do not have confidence in one another, how can we go on and work out the truth together? And the basis for confidence lies in the family side.

ENJ There is beautiful harmony in Acts 13 in the opening verses, where you have Niger and the foster brother of Herod, and other brethren who naturally would be difficult perhaps to synchronise with; but beautiful harmony was there under the Holy Spirit’s guiding. Is that a healthy lesson for us? The harmony with which the assembly is functioning there is over against the difficulties in our section here, that there were several mothers, and all the difficulties that Joseph had to meet.

SMcC Yes, and especially over against the principle of Herod in chapter 36, the great principle of the Edomite that comes to light.

GWB Would you say something further as to having things right on the family side?

SMcC What I was saying was that the family side is the basis of confidence amongst us; and if we do not have confidence based on love in relation to the family side, we shall never be able to work out the truth rightly, because the administrative side and the family side run together; they are collateral lines, and we must not divorce them. If we are helped to complete soundness as the man in Acts 3, we shall hold both Peter and John.

GWB In your reference to the family side, have you in mind the recognition of what is involved in that,

that the dignity that attaches to it, no matter what comes up, must be held in our minds?

SMcC Yes. The chapter opens with reference to the family side, and then it proceeds to the great realm of administrative glory, because the dreams deal with the administrative side. It involves the family side in the working out of it, but it is a great projected realm of administrative glory. It is brought into our view. The sun and the moon and the stars all speak of a great realm of ruling, and administrative glory.

WJB Would Abraham be referring to the family side when he says to Lot, “I pray thee let there be no contention between me and thee ... for we are brethren”?

SMcC That is an important thing too, that in all conflict we should hold to the family side; not in the way of ignoring the truth, the truth must be held to, but we must see the importance of going on together. In this city in 1947 J.T. referred to Peter and Paul and the way that they were brought into agreement, and the way they went on together, so that Peter could refer to “our beloved brother Paul.” The importance of that underlies good local conditions.

PB Does Paul represent what you are saying in 1 Thessalonians 1: “Paul and Silvanus and Timotheus to the assembly of Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Grace to you and peace.” Does that help?

SMcC It certainly does, and we should emulate these features in working out the truth in our local gatherings. So we come to the matter of Joseph’s dreams. The love side brings out the hatred of his brethren in verse 4. What brought out the awful enmity of the Jews in John’s gospel was the Lord’s links with the Father. The more the Lord stressed His links with the Father, the greater it aggravated them, the more it brought out their antagonism and enmity, until finally they succeed in His being slain.

JCS Would the administration here flowing out from the father’s love for Joseph link on with the end of John 3, “The Father loves the Son, and has given all things to be in his hand.” The great realm of administration?

SMcC So that we should keep Christ in our view in this matter: what He had to go through, what He was to the Father, and what He had to face with the Jews. His enemies, with men. We are reminded of all this in Joseph’s history.

JD “And lo, my sheaf rose up, and remained standing.” The reference is back to Genesis 18: 2 where Abraham saw three men standing near him.

SMcC Yes, the word means stationed. It is a stable position. He says, “Hear, I pray you, this dream, which I have dreamt: Behold we were binding sheaves in the fields.” Now this is an interesting thing because unity is the great thought in this matter, in the working out of the truth. You will notice all through John’s gospel how the Lord stresses the strain of unity, oneness; and Joseph said, “and lo, my sheaf rose up, and remained standing.” That is, attention is now drawn in the type to life inherently in Christ in all its intrinsic value.

JMcN Have you anything to say as to why the dreams are in the land of Canaan, but the working out of them in the land of Egypt?

SMcC No, I do not know why it is. Perhaps you have some thought as to it. Tell us.

JMcN I wondered if the dreams would be a suggestion of purpose, and the working out of them, as here in Egypt. Would that be right?

SMcC Well it might be to a certain extent, although I think “Behold, we were binding sheaves in the fields, and lo, my sheaf rose up,” is specially to stress life inherently in Christ in the midst of the conditions that obtain. The sun and the moon and the stars represent the fixed order of things on the heavenly side.

WLJ Would Ephesians 4 “the unity of the Spirit in the uniting bond of peace” be set out in Joseph here?

SMcC Yes I think it would. Ephesians 4 is interesting because the fixity of the moral universe is alluded to there also. Along with the unity of the Spirit, the apostle proceeds to outline the principles of the fixity of the moral universe.

JD Does the thought of what is heavenly in regard to administration come in here?

SMcC I have no doubt it would. It is a wonderful thing that the Lord has gone into heaven, “whom heaven indeed must receive till the times of the restoring of all things,” Acts 3: 21. Heaven must receive Him. It is a must; stressing the wonderful session at the present time, that as having entered heaven He has set up and established an administration, and is functioning as Man in relation to that administration. And it works out in different ways; the first feature of it was the gift of the Spirit.

CTMcC So that all administration now must be in perfect accord with that Man as received in heaven?

SMcC Well exactly, and the position down here in the presence of the Spirit in the assembly is commensurate with the position up there, so that we have the administration working out in a subservient way down here corresponding to what is up there.

CTMcC Is not that a great test to our consciences, as to whether we are really in line with that? It would affect us, would it not?

SMcC So that the first dream would bear on the principle of this kind of life; that is, it is the kind of life that you could say could hardly be interfered with,

I am alluding to the anti-type of course, what comes out in Christ as rising from among the dead. It is what cannot be interfered with.

SL Would it be right to say that the glory of administration according to God is really, on the part of the saints, secured through suffering?

SMcC Well it is. Suffering, we can see, is what will give lustre and radiance to the holy city in her great administrative part as sharing with Christ in the millennial day.

SL Before Joseph comes into the glory of his position in Egypt, it spelt for him a pathway of great suffering, did it not?

SMcC We are to see the sufferings of Christ entering into this matter; and Paul says, “I fill up that which is behind of the tribulations of Christ in my flesh, for his body, which is the assembly.” Colossians 1: 24. We are to see this prime matter of the sufferings of Christ, and our hearts have to be searched as to whether we have a right part in them in view of the assembly, Christ’s body.

NBS Is there a link with Hebrews 2: 10, “in bringing many sons to glory, to make perfect the leader of their salvation through sufferings”?

SMcC The Lord is now in that condition and state of manhood that is according to the eternal purpose of God, reaching it via the line of suffering, via death, tasting death for every thing too, as it says there.

CTMcC Would you say a little more about this life that cannot be interfered with? Would you enlarge on that a little, please?

SMcC Well, we are to be reminded of this in Christ, the kind of life that we see in the type here coming out in the anti-type. My sheaf rose up, and remained standing. That is, we are to take account of Christ, how He rose from among the dead, and how He remains standing, and what is suggested in that positioning, the importance of that position. And it says, “and behold, your sheaves came round about and bowed down to my sheaf.” That is, it points to the pre-eminence of Christ among the many brethren on this principle.

GWB Sheaves were never known to move in this way before, setting forth what you have said. It is a delightful picture of the result of the life being in Him, and transmitted to others that they recognise His supremacy.

SMcC You say transmitted to others; what are you referring to?

GWB What I have in mind is that His sheaf stood up. There was life inherent there, but the other sheaves came round. Is that not the result of what is imparted to us, that we see the place that Christ has and we gather to Him as the supreme centre?

SMcC Yes, only that one would like to keep the distinctiveness of the thought in regard to Christ. It is my sheaf rose up, not the other sheaves rose up; “my sheaf rose up ... your sheaves came round about ... “ the uniqueness of what is seen in Christ.

JNG Does it link on with the word in John 10: 18, “I have authority to take it again”?

SMcC That is the force of it. He took His life again in new conditions.

JM Does the position of the sheaf standing up become a test as to whether they will receive Joseph, receive Christ really? It is the same word as in Genesis 18: 2.

SMcC So that all around us we have religions established on imitating Christ as Man here; but Christianity stands linked with Christ as risen from the dead and ascended up into heaven.

WHF Is it really Colossians 1: 18, “firstborn from among the dead, that he might have the first place in all things”?

SMcC That is it exactly. That comes before the great projected sphere of administrative glory, Christ among the Gentiles. What we have here precedes Joseph on the throne with the whole extended realm of Egypt before him.

JNH Is not that the testimony of Stephen, “Lo, I behold the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing ...,” as having risen from the dead?

SMcC Very good. It is the final word, you might say, to the Jews.

CEJ I was wondering if Colossians 1 fitted in with chapter 37 and Colossians 2 with chapter 41. “For in him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily; and ye are complete in him, who is the head of all principality and authority.” Colossians 2: 9, 10.

SMcC You mean that the saints and the assembly come into view in Asnath?

CEJ Yes, and I was thinking of Christ personally, Colossians 1 distinguishing Him in that way peculiarly. In chapter 2 He is the One from whom administration flows and the assembly is complete in Him.

SMcC Yes that would be right.

JGH Would the scripture in Romans 1: 4 apply? “Marked out Son of God in power, according to the Spirit of holiness, by resurrection of the dead.”

SMcC Very good. The anti-type would set that out in its perfection. Joseph was marked by the eschewing of evil. The spirit of holiness was seen with Joseph. You will understand what I am referring to, though of course it was unique in the Lord Jesus Christ. But Joseph brought to his father an evil report; that is he is bearing testimony as to evil; and in Potiphar’s house he fled from evil; that is, the principle of the spirit of holiness is with Joseph as coming out in life and testimony here. “My sheaf rose up, and remained standing.”

FW In ministry, it is clear from what has been said that the only sheaf that must stand erect, and remain standing, is Christ. All the other sheaves bow down to Him. Will you say something too as to the sun and the moon and the eleven stars bowing down to this other one?

SMcC Well, we have more the side of heavenly influence brought into our view here. “And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it to his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamt another dream, and behold, the sun and the moon and eleven stars bowed down to me. And he told it to his father and to his brethren. And his father rebuked him, and said to him, What is this dream which thou hast dreamt? Shall we indeed come, I and thy mother and thy brethren, to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth? And his brethren envied him; but his father kept the saying.” I think this would bring into our view the supremacy of Christ in relation to every family, not only in relation to the one family, as in your sheaves coming round about. But we have a great sphere of glory indicated in the sun and the moon and eleven stars, and they all bow down to Christ.

FW Would God, in giving these dreams to Joseph, indicate the supremacy of Christ not only upon earth in the sphere of testimony, but also in heaven, so that He is supreme over all?

SMcC Well that is the point. In the first it is the testimony to life in resurrection, resurrection being linked with the earth, “my sheaf rose up.” John stresses that word “up”. “Thus must the Son of man be lifted up,” John 3: 14. “When ye shall have lifted up the Son of man,” John 8: 28.

PB Is this a touch of Ephesians 1 from verse 20 to 23? “And he set him down at his right hand in the heavenlies, above every principality, and authority, and power, and dominion, and every name named, not only in this age, but also in that to come; and has put all things under his feet, and gave him to be head over all things to the assembly, which is his body, the fulness of him who fills all in all.” Does that come in here?

SMcC The principle of Colossians bears on the first dream as to life in resurrection power and to the testimony conveyed in it, because resurrection is the great public witness and testimony to God’s power, the divine power, and it comes to light in the first dream. But the second dream brings before us a great realm of administrative glory involving principalities and powers, but all subjected to Christ. But the assembly is with Him. The assembly is not amongst the dominions and powers and authorities that are subjected. “And gave him to be head over all things to the assembly.” “And he set him down at his right hand in the heavenlies, above every principality, and authority, and power, and dominion, and every name named, not only in this age, but also in that to come.” It brings before us the supremacy of Christ in that relation.

JD It says, “And behold, your sheaves came round about and bowed down to my sheaf.” I was thinking of “round about.” Is it the thought of nearness?

SMcC Yes, it would be the thought of Christ as the centre.

JD There were those in the gospel who sat in a circle round Him.

SMcC The Lord looked around in a circuit upon them too.

JD I wondered whether the spirit of this would really help in our localities; Christ as having the supreme place, and our nearness to Him, and round about Him.

SMcC That is the point; because all the trouble in our localities revolves around some other man wanting to get the distinction instead of Christ.

JD And would you say a word as to this bowing down, “bowed down to my sheaf.” And then again, “the sun and the moon and eleven stars bowed down to me.”

SMcC Well, it is the whole truth of the gospel. The ministry and teaching and truth of the gospel is to bring about this state of subjection to Christ, in which Christ is supreme.

NBS Was his father quickly adjusted here? He questioned the matter first of all, the divine communication, but he kept the saying. Of the brethren it does not record their saying anything, but they envied him.

SMcC It is very interesting in that way to see how the truth begins to assert itself; that is, while his father rebuked him in verse 10, at the end of verse 11 it says that his father kept the saying. It is just a suggestion, an inkling, that the truth is beginning to find a way and to assert itself. It will come out eventually. It involves a process, but there is the light of it here. It is the light of a thing that tests us.

GJG Is the family side brought before us here? It is that which they were slow to arrive at. Did not his brethren have to come to that side before they got the full light as to what was put into the hands of Joseph?

SMcC So that the process is a difficult one for them, but they come to it; and the work of God answers to all the service of Christ administratively towards them, towards his brethren. The work of God eventually asserts itself, the truth asserts itself, and we get the disclosure of Joseph.

PB What would you say with regard to Reuben? He had right desires, did he not? Yet he has not moral power with his brethren to carry them out in a proper way. Is there some suggestion in that for us?

SMcC Yes there is, so far as it goes. He says something, and we can be thankful he does say something, but it does not go far enough. He is weak in his intervention, but nevertheless he has some concern about the matter, and we can be thankful for that.

JHH I wondered whether the father keeping these sayings was akin to the end of Luke 2, “And his mother kept all these things in her heart.” - the truth of the Person asserting itself, as you have been stressing.

SMcC So that the time will eventually come when what has been kept will come out; that is, we want to make way for the truth in our souls; even supposing we do not see it fully at the moment, let us make way for it, and the time will come when there will be the full answer to it.

GJG Jacob eventually says, “Joseph my son is yet alive; I will go and see him before I die.” Genesis 45: 28. Is that the arrival at it?

SMcC He is prepared now for the transition to this great position where Joseph’s administrative glory is known. We should think of verse 14 here; it says, “Go, I pray thee, see after the welfare of thy brethren, and after the welfare of the flock; and bring me word again. And he sent him out of the vale of Hebron.” This is a great matter, seeking the welfare of the brethren and the welfare of the flock and bringing word again; that is, there is interest in this matter of how the brethren and the flock are getting on.

RCMcC Do we get the two sides you are speaking of here, the family side and the administrative side, in the brethren and the flock?

SMcC Very good; showing how they are held together. And that is where the enemy gets a wedge in, when we divorce the administrative side from the family side; so that family feelings are disrupted, distances come in between brother and brother, and sister and brother, and sister and sister, and these things should not be so, because the whole point in the administration is that the brethren should be brought together. It is confidence in one another, not looking on one another as Joseph’s brethren did, but as loving one another and having confidence in one another in the light of the work of God.

RCMcC Does the welfare of the brethren come first?

SMcC That is it, the welfare of the brethren, the family side is on Jacob’s mind.

WHF Would Philippians 4: 1 come into it? “So that, my brethren, beloved and longed for.”

SMcC We want a little bit of Philippians in the gatherings, I think; a little bit of the heavenly refinement that belongs to that choice letter written from the prison, from the circumstances of pressure and limitations and difficulties, yet written by a man who is so filled with choice thoughts as to the brethren.

CTMcC I was wondering if in Matthew 18 the family side is in mind, one going after a brother. “But if thy brother sin against thee.”

SMcC The family side and the administrative side run together in Matthew. We must not, of course, weaken the administrative side. The assembly is glorious in her judicial capacity, and we must allow the full weight of it in our minds; but we must not divorce the family side which underlies our contact and relations with one another, and especially the matter of confidence; that is what is needed among the brethren. The Lord is serving administratively to bring it about in a greater way than it has ever been present before.

SMcG “And let us consider one another for provoking to love and good works”; Hebrews 10: 24.

SMcC Very good; “provoking to love.” How often we provoke to hatred, as we allow the flesh to express itself. I may think that I am expressing the truth, but am I provoking to love and to good works?

GJG “So then let us pursue the things which tend to peace, and things whereby one shall build up another.” Romans 14: 19. That would fit in?

SMcC It would. You will notice that the word “welfare” literally is “peace” here, as Mr. Darby points out.

FW Is that why there is this very brief reference to what is maternal in verse 10? “Shall we indeed come, I and thy mother and thy brethren.” Rachel was really the maternal element in that great family; the others are not specified here, but “I and thy mother,” Joseph’s mother, as if the maternal feelings were to be present in this matter.

SMcC I think that is a very interesting touch. “Shall we indeed come, I and thy mother.” You remember how Jacob touchingly alluded to Rachel his wife later, telling Joseph, how she died by him, as if there is something very significant in this matter, “I and thy mother,” coming in at this juncture.

FW And then his own exercise, verse 11: “And his brethren envied him”; (much had to be done with them) “but his father kept the saying.” He was in exercise, and his exercises bore fruit, would you say?

SMcC So that in principle what Jacob is goes through intact, despite all the difficulties. Jacob is basically right. Some of the details may be wrong, but Jacob is basically right all the way through, and eventually he really rises above Joseph in the matter of spirituality.

FW You mean in regard to the crossing of the hands?

SMcC Exactly; in regard to Ephraim and Manasseh, showing that the administrative side is not everything. Now the brethren will notice how we are saying that. We are not minimising the administrative side, but the administrative side is not everything. There comes a time when the administrative side fails. Sometimes we hear it said that there is no failure in Joseph or Daniel, but there is failure with Joseph, as a type of ourselves, on the administrative line; not as a type of Christ of course; and spirituality in Jacob holds the day, holds the ground.

JD Is there not a beautiful touch in regard to Joseph’s availability and readiness to serve in spite of being hated by this brethren?

SMcC Exactly. And so why should we sink into the background? Why should we say, Well we won’t do anything more. Is that what Paul did at Corinth? Although the more abundantly he loved the less he was loved, he was prepared to spend and be utterly spent for the brethren. Sometimes you feel that we are looking for a little bit of recompense.

GB Following on that, we get that beautiful touch that Joseph went after his brethren and found them.

SMcC Very good. That is the kind of man who can find them. Saul could not find the asses, but David found a tremendous lot, as we go through the books of Samuel. And Joseph found his brethren. That is, the two administrative lines in Joseph will find the brethren.

JC What is in our hearts will come out in our footsteps. The hearts of his brethren were full of hatred to him, for they left Shechem where they should have been and went to Dothan. But what was in Joseph’s heart found the brethren and the flocks.

SMcC Exactly.

WJB Solomon in his administration brought to light the true mother. She said, “Ah, my lord! give her the living child, and in no wise put it to death.” 1 Kings 3: 26. The protective, maternal feelings were necessary that the administration should be right.

SMcC And that is what is behind all the skill of Joseph’s administration. He is insisting on the link with the right mother; that is, he is insisting on Benjamin, who comes of the true mother.

Now just a reference to the way the full result of administrative service works out in the supremacy of Joseph, the supremacy of his commandment, and we must make room for the commandments of Christ. John’s ministry insists on the commandments of Christ, loving Christ and keeping His commandments; and that makes way for this great range of administrative service linked with cities, which brings us to the link with Paul’s ministry, for Paul deals with the economy of local assemblies, and Joseph’s wisdom shines out here in administrative skill.

WJB He put the food in cities.

SMcC That is, you do not separate the food from the administrative idea, for it is linked with it, the administrative centre, the cities; showing that administration, if it is rightly operating is linked with the food supply, always so in the case of the leaders we have in the Old Testament.

CTMcC Is it so that the person who has to do with administration would basically be concerned about the food supply? We would not get a person not really concerned about the food supply, at certain times coming in in a vigorous way administratively, would we?

It would not be normal for a person who does not appear, and is not concerned about the food supply, to come in at certain times vigorously in administration. I am speaking of persons. Joseph here was concerned about the food supply. It would work out the same way with us in persons concerned about the food supply, whom the Lord may take on administratively.

SMcC You can hardly understand persons taking a lot of part in the care meeting who do not attend to the needs of the brethren, or have to do with God in priestly exercises in the prayer meeting and elsewhere. They just do not go together.

PAH Gideon would express that as threshing wheat in the winepress in his day, and then used of God in regard of what is administrative.

SMcC Yes. Now we could finish with a word as to these two sons as bringing into our minds this great thought, that after all that has transpired, all that has gone before in Joseph’s history, and the end that has been reached with the brethren, “Joseph called the name of the firstborn Manasseh - For God has made me forget all my toil.” Notice how he says that. Not Pharaoh. Pharaoh had a big place in this chapter, and he had a lot to do with Joseph, but he says, “For God has made me forget all my toil, and all my father’s house. And the name of the second he called Ephraim - For God has caused me to be fruitful in the land of my affliction.” That is, God is in these matters to bring about what is right and what is proper, especially enlargement and fruitfulness.

PB It is noticeable that after the food has been brought into the cities, we have the thought of sonship and priesthood and the father’s house, representing the present moment.

SMcC The service of God would come into mind; that is, all administrative exercises would lead us rightly to the assembly, to understand the assembly and what the assembly is to Christ, especially in relation to the service of God, the way that He employs the assembly in relation to God. He is thinking of God here - God has done this, and God has done that.

WJB Do you think that inability to forget, sometimes causes a lot of trouble in our local companies?

SMcC It certainly does. I think we could seek help on this line in regard to what we have been considering, the welfare of the brethren and the welfare of the flock.

WJB It involves an enlargement of outlook that the Spirit will help us in, is that so?

SMcC I am sure that is right.

FW Does it mean that we are not only to be morally right, but spiritually right?

SMcC That is a good way to put it. We might have the moral adjustment and be right in that regard, but we want this positive side of spiritual enlargement which results in Ephraim after Manasseh, that is, God making to forget.

CEJ In all our exercises there may be much that would be distressing. Are you suggesting that we would not go over these matters, but be capable of forgetting, and seek to get the gain of matters, for, “the second he called Ephraim - For God has caused me to be fruitful in the land of my affliction.”

SMcC It was after they had completed their moral exercises in regard to their links with Joseph. The injustice, and what had marked them, their hardness in regard to Joseph, had all been fully judged in chapter 44, so that in chapter 45 Joseph is free to disclose himself fully.

FW And does this work out in the spiritual eventually taking precedence of the moral?

SMcC Well I think so, so that chapter 41, Asnath and the two sons, are prophetic in that way. There is moral history to be covered in chapters 42, 43 and 44; but like many other things, such as Mary anointing the Lord in John 11, the end is given us at the beginning.

NBS Is there an answer on the part of the assembly to this in Psalm 45, “and forget thine own people and thy father’s house: And the king will desire thy beauty”?

SMcC How important it is that the natural side should be forgotten, that natural relations and natural links should not be allowed to interfere with spirituality in our souls and making room for the Spirit, which would produce spirituality with us.

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