THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE SON OF GOD (3)

THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE SON OF GOD (3)

John 1: 14 - 18; John 3: 13 - 18; John 5: 20 - 25

SMcC The knowledge of the Son of God seems to be a prime matter in John’s ministry. He makes more of it than the other evangelists, even to the extent of giving us in his gospel a whole long chapter (chapter 9) devoted to a soul who arrived at the knowledge in some way. The fact that the work of the ministry is operating in view of our arriving at the knowledge of the Son of God would certainly serve to show the prime importance of it. It would seem to link with the completing of things in the dispensation, and the fact that John’s ministry makes so much of the apprehension of the Son of God, both in the gospel and the epistles, would serve to bring home to us the importance of it at this time upon which John’s ministry bears. It bears upon the time when doctrinal degeneracy has set in and where, in the public body, a good deal has been resorted to in years gone by to try and prevent that degeneracy - the creeds and the like, protestant reform and everything on that line - it all tried to stem the tide, but it has been futile. John in his ministry brings in elements of the teaching, such as life, that would help us in difficult days. The thought of life runs collaterally through the gospel with the knowledge of the Son of God. We might look first at it in the first chapter in relation to the uniqueness of the Lord Jesus in this position in manhood, “the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father,” and then we might see how linked with the thought of the Son of God in chapter 3 is this great gospel vista, an enlarged vista in the field of the gospel. Then in chapter 5, bearing upon the service of God, the divine family, the great thought of quickening, the voice of the Son of God coming in too in quickening power, especially having in mind our part in the assembly in the service of God. As we alluded to it at the outset, God, while in absolute conditions, is unknowable, yet He has come within our range in Christ in relationships that are calculated to affect our souls. In these relationships, the nature and attributes of God are set out. This first reference in verse 18 is particularly attractive. Our attention is drawn to the uniqueness of Christ in manhood here, “the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father.”

JNG Is there a difference between the titles “Son” and “Son of God”?

SMcC I suppose there would be a reference in the Son, when the title Son is by itself, particularly to the Person, the Son, that Person. The Son of God is more what He is in relation to God, as representing God. God has come so near to us in that relationship.

JE Would the “bosom of the Father” refer to the place or position that He has taken in the economy?

SMcC It alludes to the place that He has come into in manhood. Verse 14, “The Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we have contemplated his glory, a glory as of an only-begotten with a father).” It is a figure of speech there in the bracketed remark, but here it is a literal reference to the position that He was in as coming into manhood.

JE And he remains, would you say?

SMcC Yes, it would seem that He remains in manhood for ever, not that we can bind anything on a divine Person. If He is pleased to come into conditions that involve limitations for Him, that is His prerogative, we could not have bound it on Him, but it would seem as if He retains it for ever.

CPP Would it be an expression of special affection as existing and known in that expression as to the bosom of the Father, and do you understand that that would cover his place here in manhood and His present position too?

SMcC Yes, I should judge the reference in verse 18 is particularly to His place here in the days of his flesh including, of course, what and where He is now on high, for He is still a Man. But I think John the evangelist here is drawing our attention particularly to Him as in manhood here and the point from which the declaration goes forth.

JNG It says, “he hath declared,” the “him” being in brackets. Is it God or the Father?

SMcC Well, it would include both. “No one has seen God at any time; the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.” It is a reference back to “No one has seen God at any time.” It would include both.

VTS Does this knowledge lead us on to the greater knowledge of God? I was thinking of the peculiar glory of Christ, that He is the Word. The Father is not the Word and the Spirit is not the Word. Is it a peculiar glory of Christ?

SMcC It is. There are certain things that specifically appear in relation to each divine Person, such as the Father being the Source of glory, the Source of light; and the Holy Spirit being the power for the apprehension of divine Persons as They are viewed, the apprehension of the truth; the Father is not that nor the Lord, the Holy Spirit is that. The Lord Jesus is the Word, not the Father or the Spirit. The Lord Jesus died for us. There is a specific glory about each of the Persons in the arrangement in which They may be viewed, into which They have come in grace. I think the great thing in verses 14 to 18 is that we should apprehend by the help of the Spirit something of the excellence of manhood in Jesus in this setting in the only-begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father; the excellence that is linked with the knowledge of the Son of God in this relation. Paul alludes, in the great epistle of heavenly refinement, to things that are more excellent. I think we get a touch in this particular section as to what is most excellent in the Son of God in manhood.

WHG Can you tell us the difference between what it says in Exodus 24, “they saw God, and ate and drank,” and “No one has seen God at any time”? Would that bear too on the excellence of what has been set forth in the Son of God?

SMcC Well, of course, the Son of God had not come into manhood in Exodus 24. This is unique here in John 1. Everything that went before must look on to the incarnation. Sonship rightly awaited the incarnation. That is, a divine Person has come into this position of sonship which is the highest thought of God for men. We have to learn the excellence of it as in a divine Person in this position.

CPP Are these features of the uniqueness of Christ indicated in the expressions, firstly, “the only-begotten Son,” causing Him to stand out before us, and then the One “who is in the bosom of the Father”?

SMcC Yes. “The only-begotten Son” is a term that conveys the thought of endearment; a strong expression of endearment of Christ to God in this position. He is unique. It is obvious that that could not be carried into Deity, because you could never think of One divine Person being an object of special attractiveness to Another divine Person in conditions of abstract Deity. It must allude to the divine arrangement into which divine Persons have come. Two Persons are subordinate to the supreme thought of the Father in that arrangement.

EAK Is it the type in Genesis 22, the father and the son going together, and the mutual relations of affection between them?

SMcC Exactly. That chapter and Exodus 24 which has just been alluded to, are two of the greatest chapters in the Old Testament. Exodus 24 throws into relief the greatness of the Mediator, and here we are in the presence of One who declares God, “He hath declared him,” the emphatic ‘He’ mentioned.

NBS Does this expression, “who is in the bosom of the Father,” bring home to our hearts the perfect suitability of the Son to declare Him?

SMcC Yes. And we are to be impressed with the way in which the declaration comes. It is God coming out to be known by men in relationships intelligible to men, and in relationships in which the nature and attributes of God are to be set out, for God is love.

GH So that His fullness is connected with “and dwelt among us.”

SMcC Yes, alluding to His place here; it would be an allusion to His manhood.

PRP Is ‘begotten’ unique to the Lord Jesus in relation to the matter of sonship?

SMcC In the sense that we are not sons by birth. The Lord Jesus is viewed in that way as unique when it comes to sonship. We are sons by adoption, so there is a difference in that way.

RMY What does the declaration cover? Does it cover the whole life of the Lord Jesus here? Does it include His death, carried through to resurrection?

SMcC I think it is a general statement as to what came out in Him as Man. Declaration is a public matter, involving the whole position, not like revelation which the assembly comes into specifically. Declaration is the full public position, that all that is to be known of God is out in Christ. “He has declared,” that is, it is an historical matter; the whole declaration is out.

CEJ Does the word ‘truth’ enter into that? “Full of grace and truth.”

SMcC You will notice that grace precedes truth. “Full of grace and truth,” both are needed, but grace comes first. You will notice that both at the beginning of John’s gospel and at the end of John’s gospel, the side of grace is emphasised, “whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted to them; whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.” The side of grace in remitting comes first; not that we would detract in any sense from the thought of truth, it has a great place in John’s ministry, but grace is first here. It says, “Of his fulness we all have received, and grace upon grace,” not truth on truth. “For the law was given by Moses; grace and truth subsists through Jesus Christ.” John would help us to see that we can go a long way on the line of grace; truth will come in; we can count on it coming in; it will come in to regulate, to adjust, but truth furnishes us with the standard.

Ques “Grace and truth subsists through Jesus Christ.” The verb is singular. Can we have the truth in this dispensation apart from grace?

SMcC You will notice the note ‘k’ to the verb ‘subsists’ says “’has come’ (i.e. into the world), that is ‘now begins to be’ ... The world ‘began to be’ through him ... So ‘grace and truth came into being.’ I am not satisfied with ‘subsists,’ but it is better than ‘came’ which gives the idea of coming into the world. They began to exist de facto down here. The verb is singular, and ‘grace and truth’ go together in the Person of Christ. Nothing subsisted by the law, it was a rule given; but grace and truth actually commenced to be, not in God’s mind of course, but in revelation and actual existence down here. But its so taking place supposes its continuance.” It shows the uniqueness of what we have coming in, in relation to Christ in manhood. It says “the law was given by Moses.” We have a certain standard in the ministry of Moses, but “grace and truth subsists through Jesus Christ.”

CPP Does that expression in the note, ‘supposes its continuance,’ give a link with your reference to John 20?

This is a new movement on the part of divine Persons, light coming that had never shone before, but having come, it is to continue and by extension in the saints?

SMcC Exactly. That is, that it goes right through so that the dispensation is characterized by it. The same with righteousness; “righteousness of God is revealed.” It is God known in that way in the outshining of what He is. Grace and truth would allude to God outshining in this way.

RHG God is no longer hidden in thick darkness and cloud in the giving of the law, but has come out in the light?

SMcC Yes. God is declared.

Ques In connection with the thought we have been considering of grace and truth subsisting, is grace seen in relation to the truth in manhood in Christ, and is the truth the declaration of the Father?

SMcC The very name Father is the expression of grace; God known in grace. I think grace has to do with the line of supply; truth gives us the standard, the regulating side as to what is to be known of God.

HE Does the apostle refer to this in 1 Timothy 3: 16, “God has been manifested”?

SMcC Yes, that would allude to the great mystery of the whole matter, the mystery of the incarnation. We cannot comprehend its greatness, “the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us.” God is there like the great sight in Exodus 3 which Moses turned aside to see. What is continually in one’s mind in regard to this section is the particular feature of the knowledge of the Son of God as seen here, the excellence of what is here, “the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father.” I think we want to make room for the Spirit to help us to contemplate this and to feed upon it; we have food here for spiritual affections; food, we might say, for divine affections; the bread of God would be in it.

WHG Is that why the word “fulness” is used in relation to the Lord? “Of his fulness,” connected with “grace and truth.”

SMcC Would you say something more as to what you have in your mind.

WHG “We have contemplated his glory, a glory as of an only-begotten with a father, full of grace and truth; ... for of his fulness we all have received, and grace upon grace.” I was asking if the word ‘fulness’ was employed by the Spirit to express what is apprehended? There is excellence and glory in manhood.

SMcC Yes. If we think of the fulness of the earth, what comes into our minds is the trees, the fruits, the minerals, the life. When we think of the fulness in relation to Christ’s manhood how much comes into our minds - His fulness! What comes out in that kind of manhood here for the divine eye! “The bosom of the Father” as we know, and have been taught, alludes to the side of receptivity. The word in the Greek conveys the word receptacle. The preposition ‘in’ denotes movements towards; we have the movement of Christ towards this position. He is in a position in which He never was before and then the reciprocal side in the bosom of the Father. He was received into it in all the excellence of what was there in that kind of manhood.

SEE It says of the writer of these words that he was in the bosom of Jesus. Is that where he himself acquired the knowledge of the Son of God?

SMcC It shows that he was in a place of love, does it not? There was something attractive about John the evangelist as in the bosom of Jesus.

JD Does this bring in the peculiar place of delight He really has with the Father?

SMcC That is just what it alludes to - the Father having the Son in this way; there was nothing ever like it in the universe before, that a divine Person should come into this position. The excellence that attaches to it is to be noted. We want to have our minds helped in the contemplation of it, our affections fed in the contemplation of it.

JD Would all this help to stimulate us in the service of God; the contemplation of this glorious Person and the place He has with the Father?

SMcC Exactly; it would add to the richness. We want to make room in our minds for the thought of richness in the service of God, and it is the knowledge of the Son of God in this way that makes way for it. How prone we are to be governed by light and our academic knowledge of truth in the service of God, but this would help us to see the importance and the excellence of this kind of knowledge, and the richness attaching to it.

CD Is there a peculiar beauty about this presentation of Christ which appeals directly to the heart and the affections, and calls for adoration?

SMcC It does; He is unique in it.

AHS Colossians 1 speaks of “the Son of his love,” and later on in the chapter, “in him all the fulness of the Godhead was pleased to dwell.”

SMcC The reference in Colossians to “the kingdom of the Son of his love” is interesting. It is an extended realm involving the saints. Here, “the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father,” links with the “Son of his love,” the peculiar place he has in divine affections.

JE Would it help to see that the movement is entirely His own, and that prior to any thought of Him being sent, is He not attracted into this place, the bosom of the Father?

SMcC He comes into it in coming into manhood. It says, “the Word became flesh, and dwelt amongst us.” It was His own act throwing into relief the greatness of the Person who became flesh, and He came into this position in which He never was before.

RMY Is this side of things something acquired only by contemplation? While ministry and teaching may call attention to it, this knowledge comes by reflection.

SMcC Yes. And the help of the Spirit would be particularly needed for the understanding of this kind of thing, because from verse 19 onwards we get certain persons who want to know certain things. They are after something; they want to know something; and John the Baptist is very specific in speaking to them; but they do not know. “In the midst of you stands, whom ye do not know.” John does not mince matters in relation to them. He specifically puts them in their place in the class to which they belong. The Lord Jesus later says in chapter 3, “We speak that which we know,” alluding to a class of persons who have a certain kind of knowledge, and we want to be amongst that class.

CPP As to the Lord’s expressions to Mary in chapter 20 where He says first, “I have not yet ascended to my Father,” and then, “I ascend to my Father and your Father,” is that distinctiveness that He retains based on what we have been reading here?

SMcC It is all linking on with the unique place that He has and we are reminded of it in John 20 in the very expression, “my Father and your Father,” not ‘our Father,’ but “my Father and your Father.” However much and great our association with Christ is as His brethren, He is always unique; even in sonship. We may be brought into sonship as we are in John 20 by implication there, “my Father and your Father,” but He is unique. There is a uniqueness about Christ’s sonship which we always do well to keep before us.

CBS Does the voice out of the cloud have that in mind as distinct from James and John? Does the voice have in mind the uniqueness of the glory of the Son of God?

SMcC Yes. The testimony of the Father to Him; He stands alone in that uniqueness.

Rem We are to contemplate the mutual affections between the Father and the Son.

SMcC Yes. The reciprocity of love in the wonderful realm in which divine affections are flowing between two divine Persons, the Father and the Son, is to be taken account of.

JNG Is the contemplation of the excellence of Christ in His affection for the Father needed to fill out the doctrine of Christianity?

SMcC Yes. John’s ministry has particularly in mind degeneracy in doctrine in the public body. John would stress in his ministry the great need of understanding what we have here, that it is in - these circumstances that we get the testimony to eternal life. Eternal life is bound up with them.

NBS Would the word of John the evangelist, “we have contemplated his glory,” colour the whole of his gospel? Is it a setting out for us under the hand of the Spirit of the result of his contemplation that we might enter into it?

SMcC Exactly. It is apostolic of course, “we have contemplated his glory”; it was the unique place that the apostles had, as they speak of it in 1 John 1, that God has come so near in this way that John uses even the word ‘handled’ in the first epistle. It is wonderful to think of it! Divine infiniteness coming within the range of human finiteness; there is something so spiritually exquisite and grand about it that we need to allow the Spirit to help us more in viewing Christ’s manhood from this point that John the evangelist gives it.

JC Does Hebrews 1 link on with that, God speaking in Son, and He being “the effulgence of his glory and the expression of his substance?”

SMcC Yes. Hebrews 1 would link with John 1 in the sense that “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” That is, in Hebrews 1 the Person is God; the One Who is speaking is God; it is God speaking Son-wise. In John 1: 18 we have two Persons, not one Person - “the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father,” an allusion to two Persons in a realm of reciprocal affections, giving us an impression as to the glory of the economy that is in mind. It does not come into view formally until a little later, but these statements are all the background of it and bear on it and allude to it.

EBMcC Did John come into this somewhat, leaning on the Lord’s bosom?

SMcC It has in mind the Son of God. Sonship in this way has in mind our coming into sonship so that we should understand the greatness of what is in the divine mind, that a divine Person has come into the position to set it out in perfection. We come into it - always keeping in mind of course that the place of a divine Person coming into that position must always be unique - later on, but John’s gospel never speaks of sonship in the saints, it is always sonship in Christ.

JD Does the enquiry of the two disciples, “where abidest thou?” enter into this?

SMcC Yes, and we might well inquire too, so that the Lord might take us into this environment, that we might be impressed with the excellence of manhood in this setting. It is not in the exercise of rule on the throne, not in relation to the vast ramifications of the administration of the kingdom, but in this refined and glorious setting, manhood in sonship in Jesus in the bosom of the Father.

DJM Would the verse in John 17 link, “I have made known to them thy name, and will make it known; that the love with which thou hast loved me may be in them and I in them?”

SMcC It shows the greatness of what is in the divine mind that the quality of that love is to be in the saints, showing the high level in which the saints are viewed in the Lord’s prayer in John 17.

AGL Is the contemplation of this chapter to prepare our hearts for chapter 3?

SMcC It is. When we come to chapter 3 it is not now what sonship is to the Father in Christ, it is not the inward position and the richness and excellence linked with the inward position. Now, it is more the public testimony that is in mind. It says, “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only-begotten Son, that whosoever believes on him may not perish, but have life eternal. For God has not sent his Son into the world that he may judge the world, but that the world may be saved through him.” That is, we are now to see the bearing of the Son of God in this great matter of the public testimony, the great gospel vista that is open before our souls here.

RG What do you understand by the “world” here?

SMcC I understand it to refer to the divinely ordered system of things that God created and had His pleasure in but into which sin came and which it marred. God will yet revert to it: “the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world,” showing that Christ has in mind to remove the stain, remove what has marred this divinely ordered system of things so that God will have it again as before.

Ques Does our appreciation of what the Son is for the Father’s pleasure in the first chapter help us now, in what the Son is for men, God’s love for men shown out in the Son?

SMcC That is it. It is to bring the elevated platform of the glad tidings before us. The glad tidings does not just have in mind forgiveness of sins and the relief of man. There is a glorious vista opened up in relation to the glad tidings. The heavenly side of eternal life is stressed in relation to the glad tidings here, God having in mind that men should not perish. The fact that it goes on to say that “He gave his only-begotten Son that whosoever believes on him may not perish, but have life eternal,” would show that men are in mind. It does not say that ‘the world may believe on Him and may not perish, but have life eternal,’ it says that “whosoever” - alluding to men - “believes on him may not perish, but have life eternal.”

GCL It says here “whosoever believes on him,” not ‘in Him.’ This Person becomes an Object of faith, an Object for our hearts, does He not?

SMcC That is it, “believes on him.” The Person becomes a great Object of faith in the glad tidings, as He says in John 14 in view of His going away, “Let not your heart be troubled; ye believe on God, believe also on me,” meaning that He was going away and He was to become the Object of faith. That is what is in mind here. So that in regard of what we were saying the other day, it is important that the love of God to men should enter into the glad tidings, or else what kind of a gospel do we have?

HL “For God so loved the world” intensified the feelings that God had in relation to it.

SMcC That is not God’s love for the assembly. I do not know of any formal and actual reference to God loving the assembly. There are references to Christ loving assembly, but not God. It does not say that Christ loved the world, but it does say God loved the world, “for God so loved the world,” and that is the basis of the gospel testimony. The gospel testimony goes forward on that basis.

FRG Would you say John 3: 16 still stands? It has been suggested that that refers to what God thought or His feelings before Christ suffered and died here.

SMcC As Mr. Taylor has said, it is the great gospel testimony. Man, of course, belongs abstractly to this great range of things. It is called in other instances the “habitable” world, which must be an allusion to men and their place in it. Men are in mind here in the working out of it in regard to eternal life. It says, “For God so loved the world,” that is, the ordered arrangement of things in which his pleasure was found, “that He gave His only-begotten Son, that whosoever believes on him may not perish, but have life eternal.”

Ques Would J.N.D.’s note make it clear, ‘he has loved men in view of eternal life?’ Exactly. Of course, it might be said, Well, he loved the ones who were predestined; he loved the ones who were selected, which would be true, but we do not preach the gospel on that basis exactly.

GJG Are you helping us to see we must get God’s view of the world? You have spoken of God’s view and the vista of glory which opens out in the gospel. Do we need to arrive at that?

SMcC It is very important that we should get God’s view in regard to the world and this matter of men and eternal life, because eternal life is a wonderful blessing coming in in relation to John’s ministry in this section, as we have been taught. It is linked with the upward line, the Son of man lifted up on the way out of the world. It is not linked with the world in its departure from God, it is linked with the upward side, which is leading out of the world.

AJW Would you make a distinction between the world and whosoever?

SMcC The world refers to a system, a divine arrangement of things, but ‘whosoever’ alludes to individuals, to men, for abstractly men are part of the divine arrangement. We may say, Well, look at the awful conditions that mark men. But we must never forget what man is abstractly; that he is God’s creature. We must remember that, abstractly, however far man sinks in sin, he is God’s creature.

JC Would you allow the expression that God loves men compassionately but He loves His saints complacently? Would that help?

SMcC Let us analyse that a little. He loves men compassionately. He loved man as part of the divine arrangement before sin came in. We get the abstract side in John 3: 16 and God never relinquishes any primary thought. He has never relinquished Genesis 2, the great thought of the man and the woman, however much sin has marred man.

JE The difficulty I think in some of our minds is not as to the abstract, but as to the concrete. I don’t think there has been any difficulty as to the testimony of God’s love for men in Titus 3; that has been proclaimed, as far as I know, generally. And the thought that God loves men in an abstract sense as part of His creation, is abundantly clear; but whether we can apply that in a concrete way to every man, presents difficulty in my mind, because Esau for instance was not loved, was he? God said that he hated Esau, and to be honest I must ask for help at this point because I am not clear.

SMcC We are on a different line when we come to Jacob and Esau. That would be no ground to bring in God’s thoughts in relation to men in a general way, because when it says God hated Esau, it was because Esau rejected the blessing. In the light of the gospel; we would hardly go to persons and tell them that God hates them.

AJW It is said after his death, is it not?

SMcC Yes. We preach the gospel to men in the light of God’s favour toward men and His primary rights over men, and their responsibility. That was why the Lord Jesus came in on the side of man because of God’s primary rights; he is the Kinsman Redeemer, as we have in type in Boaz.

JE That is the gospel testimony; one is clear about that, but to meet casually in the street a man who might be a definite Christ rejecter and say to him, ‘God loves you,’ is the difficulty in mind.

SMcC That is drawing a very fine line in regard to the matter. We have to maintain the balance of the truth. We might just as well say that in the preaching we might be speaking to those who are lost, but we do not know, and we must take account of men in their responsibility to answer to the glad tidings. As to the Jew, the wrath of God abides upon him, John 3: 36, but the world stands provisionally in reconciliation (Romans 2: 15).

CD Is it not better to have the larger view - God our Saviour will have all men to be saved? There is a word that Elihu said to Job, if God only thought of Himself, gathered up to Him His breath, all flesh would expire together and man would return to the dust. The fact is that God does not only think of Himself, He thinks of men and would have all men to be saved.

SMcC I think we need to cut in a straight line the truth, and not confuse purpose and responsibility, and the love of divine goodness and the love of relationship We must keep the lines distinct, and if the love of God to men does not enter into the gospel, what have we got here in John 3? What have we in Titus 3? We have these scriptures to prove God’s love to, men in the gospel.

JE The testimony as to God’s love to men is abundantly clear. There is no difficulty with any of us as to that. It is preached in the gospel because we do not know just where men are.

SMcC I understand that one or two have been taken up in this matter and spoken to after preaching about God’s love to men in the gospel. That is a serious matter. Man proves his own position in rejecting the gospel, but we cannot assume to be in the place of God and to know all things from the beginning, because we are not omniscient. We preach the gospel to men on the ground of “whosoever”; we know that the work of God comes to light and it is essential that the love of God in its general bearing should come into the gospel. It would be serious if the service of the glad tidings was being interfered with, and persons were being hindered in preaching the love of God to men in the gospel.

CPP Do you think that the scripture in 2 Corinthians where the glory of God is spoken of in connection with the preaching, would involve the outshining of God in love and would bear upon it, because those who are lost are mentioned in that scripture, but that does not seem to affect the preaching? Would that be right?

SMcC I think we need to be careful lest we get on to the lines of what is Calvinistic; lest we should say that the gospel is only for the predestined. We know it brings to light those that are.

ET We used to sing, “Once for chosen sinners slain,” it is now, “Once for guilty sinners slain.”

SMcC The word is very careful to point out in Romans 9: 22 - 23, “And if God, minded to shew his wrath and to make his power known, endured with much long-suffering vessels of wrath fitted for destruction; and that he might make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy, which he had before prepared for glory.” Now, notice it does not say, ‘which he had before prepared for destruction.’ The ‘fitted for destruction’ alludes to what persons like Esau have done in their responsibility in rejecting the blessing, whereas when it comes to the vessels of mercy, it says, “which he had before prepared for glory.” There is quite a difference. In the former, the long-suffering is to be noted.

HJM With how many of us the barriers have gone down as the sense of love of God towards man has come to us in the glad tidings!

SMcC It is the foundation, the basis of the glad tidings, God’s love to men expressed in the way Christ has come in (Titus 3: 4).

SEE You remarked that God loved men before sin came into the world. Is it that the simple fact of sin coming into the world has not changed God?

SMcC In the primary side, Genesis 1 and 2, the arrangement involved the man. The woman is included in the man on the racial side, and in Genesis 2 the divine arrangement involves the man; the man is part of the ordered system and that is what God loved. Sin has come into the world and marred man but God does not love sin, He abominates sin, but then man abstractly is still His creature. He has primary rights over that man. The whole environment in Luke 15 in the sheep, the piece of silver and the younger son is God’s primary rights. The younger son sets out the thought of the Gentile, how he is brought near.

JD Is that not God’s great thought. He never gives it up, does he? In Revelation 21, “the tabernacle of God is with men,” it is God and men, is it not?

SMcC It is. If men are in the lake of fire it is because they have rejected the gospel and the testimony as to the rights of God.

Ques “Towards all, and upon all those who believe.”

SMcC Exactly. It is “towards all,” let us not minimise that. If we get on the line that is being suggested, we will be saying it is not for all. We will be saying that it is only for some.

CD So in that way the preaching is really a sounding out to men. I was thinking of the word in Proverbs 8, “Unto you, men, I call, and my voice is to the sons of man,” verse 4.

SMcC It is very wide here as to its going out towards all, “whosoever.” Mr. Darby shows in the margin that God loves men in view of eternal life. It says in John 1, “the life was the light of men.”

Ques I was thinking of the two thieves, how they reviled the Lord, yet the change of mind came in. Then one said, Lord, remember me when thou comest in thy kingdom. There were two in opposition to Christ, were they not? Yet there was forgiveness for one of them because he asked for it.

SMcC It was available to the other, too, if he had cared to avail himself of it.

WJB So the hymn says, “Wilt thou yield to love’s entreaty?” (321:1).

SMcC Yes.

GB Does Genesis 1: 26, 27 come into it, the matter of man there?

SMcC We have always to keep that in mind in relation to man, that he is created in God’s image. The likeness may have been destroyed, through sin and all that has come in, but Luke 15 shows us how God has come near to secure men according to divine primary rights over men.

AHS Is not the declaration of God by the only-begotten Son in chapter 1 to the race?

SMcC The declaration is not limited, it is the whole public position, “the life was the light of men,” not one, two or three, it is all men who are in mind. John’s ministry helps us as to that, that men are in mind. Whether they come into it or not is another matter.