THE OVERCOMER IN RELATION TO GOVERNMENT (2)

THE OVERCOMER IN RELATION TO GOVERNMENT (2)

Revelation 12: 1 - 6; Revelation 21: 9 - 27; Revelation 22: 1 - 5

SMcC These sections which we have read from this book open up to us a great range of governmental glory. We were referring last night to the character of things and the Lord’s word to Philadelphia in chapter 3, the One who has the key of David, then the writing on the overcomer so that the overcomer would appear in the features of glory linked with the great vessel of government and administration, the city that comes down out of heaven. This whole book shows us how one kind of government is set aside, the government that has disintegrated and deteriorated in the world, like the image in Daniel’s time with its head of gold coming down to the feet of clay, which reminds us of the deterioration in human government and administration. And this book shows us how every feature of the world system will be dealt with by God, every feature of lawlessness linked with the world system will be overthrown; but the book also shows us the positive features of government and administration according to God, the dignity and glory that are linked with these features, maintained and carried through despite what may come into the ways of God, so that the holy city in chapter 21 appears intact in all the range of governmental glory that is presented in it. One thing that is to be noted is how the thought of suffering is linked with these features of glory; the woman in travail that we have alluded to, and the holy city as the Lamb’s wife, suggesting the one who has been formed sympathetically with Christ through suffering, to have part with Him in the administration of that day. We should see in regard to this woman that all the figures of speech that come into view, the symbols, in relation to her - “clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars” - all represent administrative and governmental glory, and the thought of the male son who is in mind represents what is according to God, of course suggesting Christ first of all in a very distinctive way. The enemy, as presented in the symbol of the dragon, is represented as waiting to destroy the male son, but we find how God has the matter in hand so that this side of things might be protected in the woman and the male son, representing how government is rightly taken up and to be worked out according to the divine thought, the woman suggesting the subjective side of things, the state of things amongst the saints, in which there is suggested suffering in view of divine thoughts being arrived at. This great thought of the male son, who shall shepherd the nations, represents a choice divine thought in regard to Christ, and the Spirit of Christ amongst the saints.

HW Do you think we get help in the consideration of the importance of this great matter of government in tracing it back to Genesis 3, where another will than God’s came into the universe, and the dealing with this matter of evil?

SMcC Yes, so that we have the promise made there to the woman as to her seed, what would come in. The enemy is always against the throne of God, as it says in connection with Amalek in Exodus, “The hand is on the throne of Jah.” This woman would be linked I suppose with Israel primarily, and what there is set out in Israel, but we are thinking more of what she symbolises, which may be applied to the saints at the present time.

EBMcC Would you say that we need not fear? Everything will go through; that is what we had last night as to the opened door, no one can shut it. The power is there. He shepherds us. There is shepherding in this chapter, and the shepherding goes on.

SMcC Yes. So we need to learn more and more to see how things go through according to God. While it involves a good deal of suffering perhaps in the working out of it among the saints, and while the antagonism of Satan may appear great under this form presented here, God is behind the matter. He is taking account of everything, so that the woman has there (that is, in the wilderness, not in heaven) a place prepared of God. We know that we have a place prepared on high. The Lord Jesus has gone on before us to prepare for us a place there, but we want to understand that God has a place prepared for us here in the very sphere where there is no resource to see us through outside of what we have in God.

EDW Is that the connection with the wilderness here?

SMcC Yes. We have no resource in it but what we have in God. It is the sphere that is marked by the absence of human resource that would meet the exigencies of the moment. The wilderness is a sphere where exigencies arise, but they are to be met by the resource that we have in God.

DBJ Would that be the bearing of the sun and the moon and the stars being brought in?

SMcC Yes, we have something beyond the reach of man in these figures, which convey to us rule and government in a supreme way, the sun being the father of the solar system, representing the supreme idea in the solar system of rule and government; the moon being the subservient, subordinate side; the stars representing the distributive side more in regard to light; but they represent government which is not exactly within man’s range to interfere with, that is government in an abstract way, as presented in these symbols employed here.

HW What is all this in view of, this thought of government and so much said about it? Has God some great end to reach?

SMcC I think so; the male son, Christ. Christ is in mind in an intensified way in the male son. Every feature of divine government and administration working out has in mind Christ. Christ arrived at this way, through travail and pain and sorrow. It is what the saints are on the maternal line, on the subjective side in suffering and in sorrow, but the divine end being that the male son might be brought in.

HM Would Paul in some way enter into these exercises as he speaks of it in Galatians, “When God who was pleased to reveal His Son in me …” he says, “but I went to Arabia ... “

SMcC Yes, it would show how he did not link himself on exactly with what would add prestige to him according to the flesh, or what would be resources in man’s way of thinking, but where no room would be made for the flesh.

FRG Would you say a little more and open out what you mean by the abstract form of government which cannot be interfered with?

SMcC Well, the woman clothed with the sun and the moon under her feet and upon her head a crown of twelve stars represents great features of governmental glory which we are to understand in an abstract way. The enemy’s attack is directed towards the male son. These features of administrative glory are all linked with the bringing in of Christ on this line as the male son, the intensification of the masculine side noted in the male son.

VP Would Paul being met on the road to Damascus illustrate this, where the Lord says to him, “I am Jesus whom thou persecutest”?

SMcC Well, there would be an allusion to the saints suffering there. Paul was directing his activities against this great thought. The enemy was in the matter to destroy the saints.

VP The great aim of the enemy is to destroy the man-child. In destroying the saints he was destroying what was of Christ, destroying what was appearing here on the earth, for the Lord said, This is my body.

SMcC And the two features of divine administration are linked with the male son, that is, Christ in that light; and the enemy is always seeking to attack that kind of thing; therefore the need of understanding this side amongst the saints as to the woman, representing not what the saints are in the way of gift or in the way of leadership, but what the saints are in a suffering way, the subjective side of things in our local gatherings.

JP-s-n So that this maternal side is marked by a preparedness to sacrifice everything for ourselves in order that what is for God might be preserved. In Solomon’s time the maternal element was there with the mother who would let the other woman have the child in order that what was of God might be preserved.

SMcC Yes, so that this maternal side is to be noted. The Lord would help us to see the importance of this side in the support of true and right features of government and administration according to God, because the male son is in mind. That is the divine thought.

HW Would the thought that you have before you be connected in any way with the scripture in John 16 where the Lord says, “ ... she no longer remembers the trouble, on account of the joy that a man has been born into the world.” Is that in line with your thought?

SMcC Yes exactly. It is Christ apprehended in that way in relation to this great thought of divine administration, that Christ is the great end in mind, but Christ as we might say, seen in the working out of the administration among the saints. In one sense it may allude to the rapture and what may obtain there, the male son including both Christ and the saints.

EBMcC The sun, moon and stars are to give light and to protect the interests of Christ here amongst the saints; that is, they have light at all times, like Joshua, “Sun, stand still upon Gibeon; And thou, moon, in the valley of Ajalon!” He commanded that; that is, it is regulated for the brethren.

SMcC So these great features of rule and glory are linked with the saints under this figure, the woman. She represents Israel, primarily, but represents what there is among the saints now. We are to see how these features of rule and glory are linked with the saints on this line.

VTS These sufferings amongst the saints, do they include, as well as the sufferings in the testimony, the sufferings amongst the saints in standing for principles that are right?

SMcC That is what I have in mind. It involves of course the public position, but what one is thinking about is more what there is in our gatherings, and the great need for this side amongst us, travailing, suffering, in view of Christ represented in the male son having His proper place. The enemy is out to destroy and to swallow up that side. All human administration - Babylon is a great embodiment of the thing - leads to the distinguishing of man according to the flesh, but administration according to God makes way for the incoming of Christ as here in the symbol of the male son.

AWW Is the distinguishing of man according to the flesh what was happening in Galatia, and is the apostle entering into these exercises which you speak of, saying that he is prepared to travail again in birth until Christ be formed in you?

SMcC All that would enter into what we are saying. At Corinth too we can see how divine administration was being attacked by the enemy in what came in there in the different personalities, whereas the great end in divine government and administration is to bring in Christ among the saints, in the symbol of the male son. It is one thing to understand what we have for instance in chapter 11: 19: “And the temple of God in the heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen in his temple ... “ We might say, Up there everything is all right. Christ is apprehended there in relation to what the “ark of his covenant” would suggest: all the grace that is available for the working out of divine thoughts there in that position, but then we have this position here, that the enemy is standing by to offset what is working out in the local gatherings among the saints.

EDW Is that what we get in verse 10, “the accuser of our brethren”?

SMcC That is it. That is how this thing works out. The attack on the male son works out this way that the accuser of our brethren has been cast out. That is the one that is waiting to destroy the male son. He is the accuser of the brethren. That gives us a cue to what marks the enemy’s activities on this line.

JP-s-n So the great test is as to whether positive features of the work of God are being feelingly brought into evidence in the saints. Our prayers and exercises should be to that end.

SMcC Exactly, and the travail, the need of real suffering that Christ may come in in this way to take up every thread of divine government and carry it through according to divine glory, not the making way for human glory.

AWW Is verse 11 interesting as following on what is said in verse 10, “And they” (that would be the brethren, I take it) “have overcome him by reason of the blood of the Lamb, and by reason of the word of their testimony, and have not loved their life even unto death”?

SMcC Well exactly, showing the importance of these features, “the blood of the Lamb, and by reason of the word of their testimony, and have not loved their life even unto death.” That is, they are prepared for martyrdom in order that divine thoughts might go through.

HK Why is he called a great red dragon in verse 3?

SMcC I think it is a suggestion to our minds in a symbol of what is pompous, imperious, standing out in a very distinctive way, a great red dragon. Red is a very distinctive colour that stands out; and the great red dragon would represent what is pompous and imperious in the working out of this kind of thing that is operating against the male son, a symbol of Christ. Christ coming out in this way through the travail and suffering of the saints.

EBMcC Do we see his power in the casting down of the third part of the stars of the heaven to the earth? It is on the earth that this great struggle is going on at the present time. He has power and we see it in the great systems around us.

SMcC So that we are to understand that this is not in heaven. This is representing what is going on down here in the wilderness. The child is caught up to God and to His throne, but the woman fled into the wilderness where she had there a place prepared of God, showing how God is taking account of these matters, and we are to understand the feature of divine resource from this side.

FKG Is Paul a great illustration for us of one who suffered both from persecution from without as well as among the saints? There were those who turned away from him, and yet he says that the Lord delivered him out of all, delivered him out of the lion’s mouth, and so on.

SMcC Yes, so that we get in verse 10, “Now is come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Christ; for the accuser of our brethren has been cast out ... “ While these things have a future bearing, we are to understand the principle on which deliverance works now, and the greatness of the resource that is towards us in deliverance in these matters. “The salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Christ ... “; that is, God’s Anointed, the authority of God’s Anointed all entering into this matter of deliverance.

HK Is the casting out here to make room for the assembly?

SMcC No doubt it is; to make room for the child, the child caught up to God and to His throne. That involves the saints, and the awful events that follow the rapture, if we look at it dispensationally. The rapture would no doubt be involved in the child being caught up to God and to His throne. Christ and the saints are involved in that. Satan is cast out and tremendous events follow, but what we should see is the principle of divine intervention. Despite all the difficulties, God is in these matters making a way for us, and preparing a way for us, even affecting things here so that we might be cared for.

DBJ So that we carry on the government in peace. “Of the increase of his government and of peace there will be no end.”

SMcC So we should never give up what is in out souls in the way of teaching and light as to divine government. We should cling to it, through suffering and travail, because Christ is in mind. God has in mind the male son. The true thought of administration and government is in the male son, but the sufferings and sorrows of the saints are linked with the introduction of it.

VTS Is that what Paul is seeking that the saints in Galatia should do in faithfulness. He says to them, “It is right to be zealous at all times in what is right.” And the result of his travailing for them and doing what is right would be that Christ would be formed in them?

SMcC The great answer would be Christ coming out in the saints in this strong energetic way which will offset the whole principle of false administration in the world, for that is what is presented in the male son in principle. We have in the male son what offsets and upsets and sets aside every feature of human administration.

FDC What is the meaning of shepherding with an iron rod?

SMcC I suppose on the dispensational side it would allude to the firmness with which things will be held in that day, but with us at the present time shepherding and the iron rod would be the principle of grace operating in rule and administration. The iron rod will come in after the church is translated, but the shepherding today would be on a different principle.

EBMcC Administration would go on in the assembly at the present time, that which is to come out in the world to come, and we saw it in the scripture last night, “I will cause that they shall come and shall do homage before thy feet, and shall know that I have loved thee.” That is really true today in a measure, is it not?

SMcC That is true today, if we have eyes to see it, and the administration is the same now as it will be in that day in principle. Then it will be the shepherding all the nations with an iron rod; that is, the inflexible character of the administration of that day. But now the Lord is on the Father’s throne and He is shepherding according to that great principle at the present time.

EBMcC We have to be prepared to take it up, like the union question taken up and settled in some places. The power has been there to withstand it and to free the brethren.

SMcC Because all these things are directed towards the destroying of Christ among the saints under this figure of the male son. All these activities are on that line.

SL These activities have been in evidence lately, but the Lord has come in in wonderful delivering skill and overcome. There is the spirit of overcoming marking the saints at the present time.

SMcC T hat is the point to see, that they are overcome by positive features of suffering and travail on the subjective side, the state of the saints in the gatherings entering into this great matter, that the full thought of the male son might come in.

SL There is nothing we shrink from more on natural lines than suffering, but suffering and glory go together. Mr. Raven has said that God will not display in the world to come anything that He has not borne witness to in testimony here firstly.

SMcC So oftentimes we may think in regard to matters that it is a question of gift and leadership coming in to deliver. Well, that is one side of the position, but the side in the woman is needed. All the saints come into the matter on the maternal line, concerned that the male son might be brought forth.

DBJ Is that what would balance us in certain matters? Even though a wrong lead may be given, if there is this feature in the saints generally, it will bring in balance.

SMcC Because the male son is the energetic side,

the intensification of the masculine side, and the saints are concerned that this side should come in according to God.

Now we come to chapter 21, which is mostly in mind. This portion which we read is very full and more than we can take up in detail, but we are to see the greatness of the glory of government in this city, the holy city, Jerusalem, which comes down out of the heaven from God. She is the Lamb’s wife; that is, the suffering side is alluded to, for the Lamb is a sufferer, and He is mentioned time and again throughout this portion; and the wife would represent the saints as formed in correspondence with Christ in this light, and able to take up their part with Him in this great realm of governmental and administrative glory according to God. So that what is stressed in the city is substance. It is the substantial side. That is what is suggested in the woman bringing forth the male son too. It is the substantial side coming forth through suffering and travail among the saints. And here it is the substantial side coming out from heaven, what the saints are as formed in relation to heavenly light, heavenly truth.

FRG In chapter 19 it speaks of the wife: “the marriage of the Lamb is come and His wife has made herself ready.” That would refer to the preparation of that vessel in suffering today?

SMcC It would. All that is going on now has in mind our preparation for this time that is alluded to here, but the features which appear here are to mark us now as understood and appreciated by us, as we see the solid and substantial side in the holy city.

HW Is your point in connecting these two scriptures that these great and glorious features seen in the 21st chapter are formed in the saints as a result suffering and preparedness to take up things sufferingly?

SMcC That is what I thought. She has the glory of God and her shining was like a most precious stone. Then we have the allusion to the variegated features of glory in the stones, the different impressions conveyed. All that suggests the glory acquired through suffering, and fitting the saints for their part in divine administration and government in this way.

HW So that the great end seen is that a man’s measure is reached. Is that the thought of the man-child coming out again?

SMcC That is it. So we should all be concerned that positive features are reached, not just negative features; that is, we may be glad, as in this book, that evil is overthrown and lawlessness is set aside in the world when the Lord comes in. But there is more than that; that is, the city comes in in all its radiancy as substantially formed in the truth, “having the glory of God,” and becoming a great benign influence in the sphere in which the administration is operating.

JP-s-n In chapter 12 the woman was nourished, which would suggest a building up, and does that enter into these positive features coming into evidence now?

SMcC One is thinking of the constitutional side in regard to these matters of government and administration. We need to see the importance of the constitutional side. The side of life is important, and we need to see the importance of the constitutional side, what is built up in the saints in a positive way to offset all the features of man’s world and the principle of man’s administration.

VTS Was that energy maintained with Caleb? How often we fail and become faint-hearted, but we need to be sustained and maintained in this substantial side and this energy.

SMcC Well exactly. Caleb was one who went through with the light of the glory in his soul,

undeterred by all the unbelief and murmurings which he had to suffer in the wilderness journey. It says of the city in verse 16, that the length and the breadth and the height of it are equal. That is to stress in our minds the solidity of this vessel of government and administration, the substantial character of it.

HW Answering in every respect to the measure of a man, that is Christ?

SMcC So that it links on with the male son, in the principle, I mean. Where does its substantiality come from? John’s gospel is the backbone of scripture, as we have been taught recently, and he stresses substantiality, both in the gospel and in the epistles, and the city stresses substantiality. Where did it come from? It comes from the predominance of love amongst the saints. John stresses love - the love of God, and the love of Christ, and the love of the brethren - in his ministry. And here the numeral twelve, twelve gates, twelve tribes, twelve foundations, twelve names of twelve apostles of the Lamb, is all to inculcate into our minds the importance of this feature in regard to government and administration.

EDW Does it too give us the greatness of God’s purposes? I was thinking of the twelve tribes here and the twelve apostles of the Lamb. I wondered whether it links with the blessing of the nations being included in the blessing of Abraham, “In thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed.”

SMcC Well, it is remarkable how the twelve enters into everything, even into creation. It is remarkable how the twelve enters into matters according to the divine operations. There is something that God has for us to learn in it, and especially this matter of love working out in the sphere of governmental and administrative glory. That is where we need love. We often think of love in the service of God on Lord’s Day morning and drawing near to serve God, but we need love predominating in relation to what is working out in government and administration.

HW The Holy Spirit seems to delight in bringing before us this glorious vessel in chapter 21, apart from Christ altogether, this divine workmanship and the accomplishment of the great end that God had in mind. Would you connect it in any way with the word in Ephesians 1, the assembly as the fulness of Him who fills all in all?

SMcC This would be the answer to it. We have here what corresponds, with Ephesians 1. She is associated with Christ in the administration and marked by His fulness. What is shining out in her is on that line.

SL In Revelation 5 we have a Lamb standing in the midst of the throne as it had been slain, having power to take up everything for God.

SMcC Here, she is presented as the Lamb’s wife. What a glorious entity she is, and we are detained here in all these verses with the glory of this vessel in divine government and administration.

EBMcC No matter what the suffering is, there is the great and high mountain. “And he carried me away in the Spirit, and set me on a great and high mountain.” That remains and shows how substantial everything is. We are entitled to ascend the great mountain, are we not?

SMcC The Spirit is available to us in that way, so that we are able to rise above what is linked with things here, in order to get a right and proper view of administration according to God. The administration here is not to repress evil. It is to bring in the knowledge of God. The city has the glory of God, and the leaves of the tree that is linked with the city are for the healing of the nations. The curse shall be no more. It is all to show us the benign character of the administration, the positive features of good brought to bear upon the position.

HW Humanly speaking, it is a most remarkable combination that is presented to us. The bride the Lamb’s wife, and “he showed me a city.” The side of affection is suggested in the bride and the wife, and then administration in the city.

SMcC It shows how this matter of administration involves love. The administration throughout all eternity will be on this principle, because love is not static. Love will be in movement, in operation, throughout all eternity in a glorious character of administration peculiar to that scene. But here it is intensified in these thoughts, the bride the Lamb’s wife, and then the numeral twelve. It is the great love number. It presents our readiness to work divine thoughts out with one another.

FRG Does Ephesians 4 have that in mind, “holding the truth in love, we may grow up to him in all things, who is the head, the Christ; from whom the whole body, fitted together, and connected by every joint of supply, according to the working in its measure of each one part, works for itself the increase of the body to its self-building up in love”?

SMcC That shows the flexibility that is linked with this great realm of things. It is a great thing that this number in its spiritual meaning and suggestion should be made more room for in our minds, so that we are prepared to work things out with one another, not without one another, but with one another, prepared to make room for one another. That is the thought in the twelve.

DBJ Would it bear in a particular way too on the question of recovery? I am thinking of the word later, “Blessed are they that wash their robes, that they may have right to the tree of life, and that they should go in by the gates into the city.” The twelve would have in view all, is that the idea?

SMcC Well, the whole administration of the city seems to bear upon a wonderful supply of grace to meet the current need, and there is enough in it to meet what is current, just as there is enough now in the assembly to meet what is current according to the divine thought.

HK In chapter 12 there is a woman clothed with the sun, but here in verse 23 the city is spoken of as having no need of the sun. Could you help us?

SMcC Well, it is a symbol in chapter 12, that she is clothed with that supreme symbol of government. The woman, generally speaking, is not viewed as in government. It is to show us how God clothes Israel and clothes the saints of the assembly with this great thought of government. But in chapter 21 the great thought is that God is there in the city. God and the Lamb, and there is no need for natural light, no need for human resource, because God and the Lamb are the light and the temple of it.

HW What you are saying reminds us of something Mr. Taylor pressed upon us in Glasgow, speaking of the saints as the governing class. This is a great thought to get into our minds, what God is working out on these lines amongst us, setting us together in our localities.

SMcC So that the true features of the governing class should be set out amongst us in that way.

JP-s-n So that in matters of light, you spoke of the sun and the moon not being needed in the city or in the assembly now, it should be in evidence, as we see in Corinthians, the temple being there, and matters being met as issues come forward.

SMcC So that all these features linked on here show how replete the city is to meet whatever may exist, because the saints in the world to come will have a wonderful place in the administration of that day. Whatever has to be met, will be met through the assembly. The knowledge of God will be there, disseminated in that day, and how important it is that we should appreciate that now, and especially this matter of the twelve. It is twelve tribes, and twelve angels and twelve apostles. That shows the distributed glory belonging to the city. While the city in itself is a glorious entity, yet linked with it are these glorious thoughts which speak of the variety of what God has in it, and we are to make room for it in our local gatherings.

JP-s-n And yet with the great variety there is perfect unity.

SMcC There is great diversification, but great unity and that is what the saints are. You don’t expect all the saints to be the same. They have all got their distinctive impressions of Christ and of God. There is great diversification amongst the saints, but unity in relation to it all.

FRG Why do the twelve tribes come in?

SMcC I think it is to show us that every divine thought is carried through. We do not give up any divine thought. It is carried through. It is the twelve tribes, not of Israel, but the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel; that is, we have intensified in our minds the personnel, the sons of Israel, the personnel of the people of God.

FRG It is a spiritual idea.

SMcC Yes, and the dignity of the saints in this light. If we are going to express these glorious features of government and administration, we want to see the saints from this spiritual viewpoint and appreciate them from this viewpoint.

FDC What is the meaning of the river today?

SMcC The whole first five verses of chapter 22 are to show us the transparency and clearness that marks this administration. “ ... bright as crystal, going out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the midst of its street, and of the river, on this side and on that side, the tree of life, producing twelve fruits, in each month yielding its fruit; and the leaves of the tree for healing of the nations.” It is to enforce in our minds in the teaching the blessedness of this character of administration, the clearness, crystal-like clearness and transparency that marks what is going out, which is very important. There is no opaqueness there.

HK Would Ezekiel 47 link on with this chapter?

SMcC Well, it does. You mean the thought of the river, and the fruitfulness linked with it. The tree of life coming in here gives us a remarkable suggestion as to Christ.

FDC Is the substantiality in relation to this feature of the river brought about as we make room for the Spirit? I was thinking of the references to the Spirit in John 4 and John 7. Is that the way we begin on this line?

SMcC Yes, it is all part of divine administration. I suppose the symbol would allude to the great part the Holy Spirit has, whether in relation to what is for the saints, or in relation to what is for men, “going out,” “river of water of life.” It says in verse 17, “ ... he that will, let him take the water of life freely.” It is a remarkable thing that in verse 17, which brings us to the present moment in the literal working out of the thing, we have a reference to what marks the holy city. It is the availability of the divine provision, both for the saints and for all men.

EBMcC You mean at the present time. This river is flowing now, and we see the healing of all nations in the sheet let down from heaven.

SMcC The river is going out of the throne of God and of the Lamb; that is, it is working out in relation to these matters of administration, so that administration according to God as it works out brings these life-imparting influences with it.

SL So we take account of divine wisdom in forming the vessel of divine glory in view of heavenly administration here in a scene of contrariety.

SMcC However small our local gatherings may be, however weak, we are to cleave in our souls to these positive features in regard to divine government and administration through the saints, because the conditions may deny it at certain times, but we are to cling to them abstractly if we cannot see them concretely. It is the only way in which we can help in the working out of the truth.

GLS Would the very contrariety be productive of that which is to be seen of suffering love in this time?

SMcC Well the sufferings would bring out things amongst us.

FDC Would a person seeking recovery be attracted to this feature of the clear river bright as crystal, and come to drink, to take of the water of life?

SMcC Well that is the point, that anyone should be affected by this character of administration. There is something attractive in it, not what is repelling. It is drawing in its power, no opaqueness, no darkness in it, clear and transparent.

RJW “By this shall all men know that ye are disciples of mine, if ye have love amongst yourselves.” Is that the testimony?

SMcC Yes, the Lord says that in John 13: 35. The great basic feature of divine administration is love working out through the saints, working out in divine Persons themselves, and then working out through the saints.