THE SERVICE OF CHRIST IN LEADERSHIP (3)

THE SERVICE OF CHRIST IN LEADERSHIP (3)

Isaiah 63: 11 - 14; Exodus 2: 15 - 25; Exodus 3: 1 - 6; Exodus 15: 13 - 17; Deuteronomy 33: 1 - 5

SMcC The service of Christ in leadership, and also the spirit of it working out amongst the saints in administrative service, care for them is before us. We come now to Moses - an outstanding type of Christ, and an outstanding example of leadership amongst the people of God. When we come to Moses, I suppose we come to what is really unique in a man like ourselves, because as J.N.D. says of Moses in the Synopsis on Deuteronomy, he was a man who scarce had his equal, Him excepted Who had none, that is Jesus. But amongst men there was scarcely the equal of Moses, because there are certain things said of Moses that are never said of any other man in the scriptures. Great as David was, the things that were said of Moses were never said of David. So that Moses in a sense is unique. It is said that the form of Jehovah doth he behold. That is a unique expression in regard to Moses, that we do not find, said of anybody else. And another expression that we get in regard to Moses that is not said of anybody else is, “See, I have made thee God to Pharaoh.” Not made thee as God, or made thee for God, but “I have made thee God to Pharaoh.” It points to Christ in the mediatorial position. So that we should see that there is a certain uniqueness entering into leadership as we have it in Moses, yet principles set out in it which are to be of great gain in the working out of this great administrative service linked with the flock, the people of God. It is remarkable how the passage comes into Isaiah. We should see in Isaiah the way that God seems to have pleasure in bringing up this matter of Moses’ ministry and Moses’ service, and the great ends that were in mind in it, that is, God making Himself an everlasting Name - a distinctive feature entering into Moses’ leadership of the people. And in fact in Isaiah, Moses’ leadership is merged in God’s leadership. And then in Exodus we should see how the service of God is in mind, both in chapter 3 and in chapter 15 in the song. And then in Deuteronomy 33, the finishing touch in Moses’ service, the glory of the saints, the work of God in the saints. Numbers 21 having been passed, the brazen serpent and the springing well having been arrived at, the people in the land of Moab about to cross over, we get a wonderful review of the work of God by Moses, which again serves to set out the greatness of the man Moses, who was meek above all those on the earth.

JHH Do you see in God’s ways with Moses at the very outset, the training for a leader?

SMcC You do. It starts very early with him. The parental care, his baptism, the way he was trained by his mother, all would enter into what the man was constitutionally; showing the great part that parental care and early training has in our part for the testimony.

PB Is there a link between this in Isaiah 63, “But he remembered the days of old, Moses and his people,” with what Paul says to Timothy, “Remember Jesus Christ raised from among the dead, of the seed of David, according to my glad tidings, in which I suffer even unto bonds as an evil-doer: but the word of God is not bound. For this cause I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory”? Would that fit in there?

SMcC Well it would. We are to allow divine Persons to bring into our minds the glory of leadership in that way.

PRP Is there some significance in the fact that Moses is linked with the people? It says, “Moses and his people,” and then, “with the shepherds of his flock.”

SMcC Yes, showing how the flock was cared for. “Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherds of his flock? Where is he that put his holy Spirit within him,” - a remarkable allusion to Moses. “His glorious arm.” What a reference to God! “His glorious arm leading them by the right hand of Moses, dividing the waters before them, to make himself an everlasting name.” Showing the greatness of this leadership in Moses, that glory enters into it.

JC Does not Stephen elaborate on that in his address in Acts 7? He distinguishes Moses.

SMcC Yes, whereas in Acts 13 David seems to stand out. But Stephen makes a good deal of Moses, especially it being the final word to Israel, as it were. They made a good deal of Moses, and Stephen makes a good deal of Moses.

NBS Would you say a word as to the prominence of the Holy Spirit in this passage in Isaiah, and in Exodus typically?

SMcC It is important that we should see in the type this matter of the Spirit, because it is a remarkable expression, almost a mysterious expression, in Isaiah 63: 11. I think it is to intensify in our minds this thought of spiritual leadership. “Where is he that put his holy Spirit within him.” And Moses sat by the well in Exodus 2. I think it is to cast us back upon the importance of the Spirit in the matter of leadership, and especially when we come to the service of God, because we worship God by the Spirit, and have no confidence in the flesh. “We ... boast in Christ Jesus, and do not trust in flesh.”

ENJ Moses really had to be brought to that. When he first went out in his own strength, Stephen says of that occasion, “he thought that his brethren would understand.” But now as you say, he is under the control of the Holy Spirit, and it almost synchronises with what God does Himself.

SMcC That is a lesson every one of us has to learn; that is, to rely on the Spirit constantly in all that we do, and in all that we say. However keen our minds may be, and retentive our memories, and absorbing our minds in ability to gather up the ministry, we must always remember the necessity of making room for the Spirit.

ENJ Was it somewhat the same in Elihu’s case, who could speak of the Spirit, and he spoke in a spiritual way, and then it is difficult to tell when God takes the matter up?

SMcC Just so. And we see the results of this kind of administrative service in verse 13, “who led them through the depths, like a horse in the wilderness, and they stumbled not? As cattle go down into the valley, the Spirit of Jehovah gave them rest; so didst thou lead thy people, to make thyself a glorious name.” When you think of the history of the wilderness, and all that entered into their coming up out of Egypt and through the sea, through the wilderness, this imparts a wonderful impression to us in regard to the position there. We might say that many of the details would show the contrary, but here it is.

GJG The thought of the cattle going down into the valley, suggests a restful scene, does it not? It is restful. Would that enter into leadership even in the sea and in the wilderness, as it is said?

SMcC That would be the point, that right leadership would involve this matter of the people of God entering into rest. We see that in the great service of the Lord Jesus, how it has in mind to lead us into rest. That is, He is the Lord of the sabbath. When He was taken up by those that criticised Him. He emphasises this fact that He is the Lord of the sabbath. “The Son of man is Lord of the sabbath,” Matthew 12: 8. That is that He is the administrator of rest. In His administrative service He brings souls into rest.

JC Would all leading be from God; and the leader, whoever he may be, instrumental to that?

SMcC Yes. All right leadership is of God, and God is represented in it. And it is touching to think that it says here, “he remembered the days of old, Moses and his people.” Not just His people, but “Moses and his people.” I think perhaps God would bring into our minds this kind of thing, what has gone before us in the way of spiritual leadership and ministry, along with the people.

JHH I have often wondered why Paul discoursed till midnight in Acts 20? I was wondering if there was a danger of them stumbling. He discoursed at length before they broke bread. Was that spiritual leadership in Paul?

SMcC Yes, a kind of leadership that enters into the whole dispensation. That is, the breaking of bread is regulated in the light of Paul’s ministry, that is, it enters into and imparts a touch to the whole dispensation.

FW Is your thought to identify for us the true spiritual leadership with Christ personally?

SMcC Yes, and how the spirit of it works out amongst the saints.

FW And in the end of verse 11, it says, “Where is he that put his holy Spirit within him.” Is that God putting His Holy Spirit in Moses? “His glorious arm.” That is, God’s glorious arm, is it? “Leading them by the right hand of Moses.” So that God and the Holy Spirit and Moses are all identified there with the position.

SMcC It helps us to see the authority that enters into ministry, the distinctive ministry that we are all the products of. The authority, divine authority, entering into it. Ministry is not infallible. Ministry is not the scriptures. The scriptures stand alone as the divinely inspired word of God. Ministry is not divinely inspired, but ministry carries the weight and stamp of divine authority; as it says here, “His glorious arm leading them by the right hand of Moses.” That is, God is in the matter.

FW So do you mean that we are to look for that element in connection with leadership, so that we get a spiritual consciousness that it is Christ and not a certain leader?

SMcC Well, that would be the point in all true ministry and in all true ministers, that they leave an impression upon your soul of Christ. Christ, of course, is the ascended Man in heaven. The gifts come from Him, and His own stamp is on all the ministry.

FW And is that how it becomes authoritative amongst the saints? Not just the ability of the servant, but the spiritual impression that is brought in by spiritual power?

SMcC That is where the authority lies, in what the servant has from Christ as the ascended Head. The authority lies in the commission; although there is another side, for there are two words for authority in the Acts, one entering into the idea of a commission; but the other, “dunamis,” referring to the power linked with the ministry, that is the ability to set the truth out, dynamic power, as we see it in the Acts. “Peter, standing up with the eleven.” He had his commission, but then as having the Spirit he had the ability to set out the truth in a remarkable way, divinely given.

PB So it says of the Holy Spirit, “He shall not speak from himself; ... he shall receive of mine and shall announce it to you.” Does that come in where it says, “Dividing the waters before them, to make himself and everlasting name,” and then, “so didst thou lead thy people, to make thyself a glorious name.” Is that what you have in mind in regard to ministry, that the name of Christ, and the glory of Christ, might be prominent in ministry in the power of the Spirit?

SMcC It is not to make ourselves a name, it is to make a name for God. God is making Himself a name, as it says, “to make himself an everlasting name.” Ministry is not to make anything of us. It is to make everything of Christ and of God.

GWB David went to meet Goliath. He says, “I come to thee in the name of Jehovah of hosts.”

SMcC Take the ministry of J.T. that was given in this city in 1947. What was in it? Paul’s militant ministry, dealing with what had arisen in Corinth - leaders in Corinth that were making themselves a name to distinguish themselves. That is the point. The ministry has in mind that God is making Himself an everlasting name, not that men should make a name for themselves.

WHF And is this typically a suggestion of the absence of the Lord Jesus? Chapter 61 would be the Lord personally. Would this be the glorious Name, as a result of the leadership of the Holy Spirit now making much of Christ during his absence?

SMcC That is, whether God or Christ, the whole point is that an everlasting Name is made for divine Persons in this kind of leadership. And we should all be concerned in our local gatherings that, as the Spirit of Christ is working out amongst the brethren, and administrative service is operating in care for the flock, the whole point in view is what is said here, that God might make Himself an everlasting Name.

WJB And as a result of that leadership, the saints do not stumble, and they enter into rest. Is that so?

SMcC That is the point. There is no stumbling. “They stumbled not.” And “as cattle go down into the valley, the Spirit of Jehovah gave them rest; so didst thou lead thy people, to make thyself a glorious name.” The adverb “so” is to be noted. This is the way it was done.

FW Is that why the matter is unique? That if the ministry and administration is seen to be identified with Christ Himself, there can be no rival ministry and no rival leadership?

SMcC No, exactly. And it is important that the spirit of rivalry should be eliminated, because there is plenty of room for what there is among the saints, for every impression of Christ; and it is important that we should see what the Lord may be doing in a distinctive way at any time; always keeping in mind what is said here, “He remembered the days of old, Moses and his people.” I suppose it would enter into all the ministry that has gone before, J.N.D. and F.E.R., and J.T., into the great principles of leadership where the Spirit of Christ has been expressed in leading the saints forward in this day of recovery and revival that Isaiah is contemplating.

JD Would the word in the end of Hebrews help as to this? “Remember your leaders who have spoken to you the word of God; and considering the issue of their conversation, imitate their faith.” And then again, “Obey your leaders, and be submissive; for they watch over your souls as those that shall give account.”

SMcC That is a salutary word, that we should remember those that have gone before, that have spoken to us the word of God, and value all that has come to us, as they have represented God in their service. Now we come over to Exodus. We see how this is all working out practically in the initial position in Moses, where the matter of the well comes up, and the watering of the flock; and then Zipporah coming into view, the assembly coming into view, as the assembly will come rightly into view in all right leadership according to God, and in all true administrative service. And then in the opening of the third chapter, how the service of God is in mind.

CEJ I was wondering if what we get here in this section, is seen peculiarly in the way Paul moves in relation to the Corinthian saints as in the spirit of Christ; and he was amongst false shepherds, was he not? But he helped the saints, and watered them. And what was in his mind was the assembly, as in the second epistle, “I have espoused you unto one man.”

SMcC What a model Paul is for us in his service to the Corinthians. What a spirit of Christ shines in his service in the way that he cared for them, the care of the flock that was on his heart. It is an important thing to see this, that linked with every administrator in the Old Testament is this matter of care for the flock. It is an integral part, you might say, of administrative ability and leadership in the Old Testament.

GM Was Moses concerned about leadership in Numbers 27?

SMcC Yes, that they be “not as sheep that have no shepherd.” That is, what is in his soul comes out in what he says. That was what marked the man constitutionally. There were two things outstanding in Moses’ administrative service; they were the great impression he had of God, and the great impression that he had of the saints.

PB So Moses has to learn the faithfulness of God in relation to His people under all circumstances; and Paul, in addressing the Corinthians, although there were those who wanted to make a name for themselves, addresses them in the light of what they are as God’s assembly - the thorn-bush burning but not consumed, would you say?

SMcC Well, what a touching reference that is. We think of the greatness of what is involved in it. Whether we think of it in relation to Christ as in incarnation according to John, the Word tabernacling among us, becoming flesh, or whether we think of it in relation to the saints, the marvel of the divine presence in these circumstances.

JNG Does the care for the flock seen in the administrators in the Old Testament you have spoken of, come out before there is any official commission given to them?

SMcC That is an important thing, that before Moses gets his commission, he is marked by certain administrative features, certain features of leadership, so it is not exactly what is handed over to him like a piece of paper, it is what the man is that comes upon our view in this section, as it says in verse 17, “the shepherds came and drove them away; but Moses rose and helped them, and watered their flock.” Notice how that expression “helped” comes in. “Moses rose and helped them.” He had been sitting by the well. Well, it is like our readings. The shepherds would represent elements that are abroad in the professing body that hinder the saints getting a spiritual ministry; but Moses rising and helping them shows how spiritual ministry in the type comes to the saints.

WJB-n So that when it says, “Why are ye come so soon today?” would that indicate that this ministry is finding its way into the hearts of the saints? Prosperity in that way?

SMcC That is a good word. “Why are ye come so soon today?” That would be a good word after our care meetings. I mean if Moses comes in and helps, as having sat by the well, maybe someone would say, “Why are ye come so soon today?” Perhaps we need a little of this to help us on administrative lines; not that the care meeting is administrative, but it has in view what is administrative.

RCMcC Is that the result of Moses’ service, the “so soon”?

SMcC That is the point. When you get spiritual leadership coming into matters, especially marked by sitting by the well, making room for the Spirit, not a question of business ability, business keenness and the like. It is a question of persons who can do things by the Spirit; and so the word is, “Why are ye come so soon today?” That is, matters were dealt with with alacrity.

GWB So is there a touch in the daughters’ testimony? They say, “An Egyptian delivered us out of the hand of the shepherds, and also drew water abundantly for us, and watered the flock.”

SMcC Yes, I suppose that if Moses had heard that word, he would have felt a little humbled by it. It might have been a good thing, too, because I suppose the way he acted in the beginning of the chapter took on that Egyptian character; but then a great inward change has come about, and we are to recognise this, you see. We might get occupied with Moses in the beginning of the chapter, but we want to get occupied with Moses now, that he is helping on in the truth, and he is doing things that you would say would bring in divine support.

JD I was going to ask if it is noticeable that first of all it is what Moses does.

SMcC Well it is, and we who are here are to be on the line of helping, are we not. We are helping one another.

JD I was thinking of what you are saying in regard to doing things by the Spirit.

SMcC An important thing, that if we are to help rightly, we should learn to do things by the Spirit. That enters into the care meeting as well as anywhere else.

JHH Is the care meeting a place where there is great teaching? Where the young are taught? And if it is not conducted rightly, they are not being taught rightly. Is not that a solemn matter?

SMcC The care meeting is our education in view of the world to come, because we are going to serve in the millennium. Questions will have to be answered in the millennium, and whatever need might be existent in the way of help in regard to the truth and the knowledge of God, the saints of the assembly will serve in that capacity; and the care meeting is a great learning time in connection with these matters.

PB Those shepherds were apparently connected with their own interests, because it says “The hand of the shepherds.” But Moses has power, has he not? How wonderful is the power of Moses to be able to deliver them out of the hand of the shepherds.

SMcC You notice it does not say the hands of the shepherds. It is the hand of the shepherds. They were all together in the matter of keeping the flock from getting the water.

KAW It was taken account of that Moses had been drawing on the Spirit, you may say; and is that the kind of leadership that is going to help us?

SMcC It is. It is what helps us in every circumstance, and it is well that the young men and young women should take it on too, this matter of sitting by the well. So that whatever we do or whatever we say, it is done and said as by the Spirit.

WJB The man himself becomes characterised by the Spirit, that is to say spiritual. Is that right?

SMcC So at the end of Deuteronomy, in chapter 32, he says, “Give ear, ye heavens, and I will speak,” and so on. He appeals to the earth, “My speech flow down as dew.” The whole passage there points out that the man is characterised by the Spirit.

PB According to this scripture, it would not be right, would it, for certain brothers to arrange beforehand what they are going to take up at a care meeting? Would not Moses be a man who in spiritual power would deliver the brethren out of the hand of such considerations by persons?

SMcC Moses is remarkable in the way he comes into the matter and takes care of what is needed, what needs to be taken care of, as being a man of resource, having sat by the well.

JC Is not Reuel’s second question as important as the first? “Where is he? why then have ye left the man behind?”

SMcC It is important that we bring him in, that we do not leave him out. Remember how in 1 Samuel 16 they left David out. Here too, they received the gain of the administrative service, but left the man outside. That is what is generally done in christendom, that Christ is left outside, but we must bring Him in.

ENJ At the end of Hebrews, in relation to what is said about leaders, one of the remarks is, “Salute all your leaders.” That was what they neglected here, to salute Moses.

SMcC Well, it is interesting to see that the assembly comes into view in Zipporah along this line, where things are being done. It is not just a matter of talk with Moses, things are being done, and the assembly comes into view on that line.

PRP Does this also lead up to the mountain of God and the service of God?

SMcC That is what is in mind in a prime way; as it says, “And Moses tended the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock behind the wilderness, and came to the mountain of God - to Horeb.” Now we have brought to our minds here the whole scope and range of Moses’ administrative service. The unfolding of the law, all the light as to the tabernacle system, the whole idea of the service of God, is suggested in what is done here. “He led the flock behind the wilderness, and came to the mountain of God - to Horeb.”

JD Is it suggestive that Zipporah, involving what you are saying in regard to the assembly, is brought in prior to that?

SMcC Yes, light comes in as to her in the end of chapter 2, before the mountain of God comes into view - not that we can say too much about it. And then again in chapter 18, before the service is formally set forward, she again comes into view, preceding chapter 19 and onwards in Exodus.

WLW In Revelation 15, there is a victorious company who have harps of God, and “They sing the song of Moses bondman of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and wonderful are thy works, Lord God Almighty,” and so on, ending up with the thought, “O Lord, and glorify thy name.”

SMcC Yes, what have you in mind linking that with what we have here?

WLW The thought of the service of God, in the harps of God and the company praising.

SMcC So that this matter of the service of God is a prime matter in the working out of administrative service of this kind. Tending the flock - not now only specific care, although that is entering into it - but the matter of the service of God, the mountain of God, Horeb. And then the revelation of God connected with it. We come to something new now, what is revealed, the revelation of this wondrous name that comes into this chapter. It is linked with Moses in this service as to the mountain of God.

JHH I was wondering too, if we could see in some sense a similarity with the touch Moses is getting now as to the greatness of the people of God, the thorn-bush not consumed. God in the midst of His people, and being called, “Moses, Moses!” and Saul of Tarsus getting that touch, “Why dost thou persecute me?” It was “Saul, Saul.” Would there be a similarity there?

SMcC So you look upon the saints in relation to the disciplinary ways of God; you see their sufferings and their trials and their afflictions; you see as it were the thorn-bush burned with fire, and yet it is not consumed; they are not consumed because God is there, and not there just in an arbitrary way, but there in relation to His good pleasure. “The good will of him that dwelt in the bush.” A wonderful expression.

JC Have we not been defective in this land in our thoughts as to administration? We have limited it to what is corrective, whereas what is in mind is the emergence of assembly features and the consequent service of God.

SMcC So that it is most interesting to notice, that one of the distinctive features of the authoritative ministry that we are all the products of, has been the place that administration in the local assembly has. The local assembly, and administration linked with it, has been an outstanding feature of the ministry of the last fifty years.

PB Do you think that God takes account of what we are seeing? Firstly it says, “And Moses said, Let me now turn aside and see this great sight, why the thorn-bush is not burnt,” and then it says, “Jehovah saw that he turned aside to see, and God called to him out of the midst of the thorn-bush and said, Moses, Moses!” Is there something in that, as to what God takes account of, as to those that would have the spirit of shepherding His people?

SMcC I think that is a word for all of us, as to whether we are turning aside, whether this sight impresses us; all the difficulties and the sorrows of the saints, but God amongst them. And they are not consumed, the position is maintained. It is a great sight and worthy of turning aside to see.

CEJ Would you say why the thorn-bush was not being consumed? Moses in verse 3 said, “Let me now turn aside and see this great sight, why the thorn-bush is not burnt.” He wanted to know why it was not burnt. Would you say a word as to that?

SMcC Because God is there. That is the whole point, that God is there. For it says, “God called to him, out of the midst of the thorn-bush and said, Moses, Moses!”

JM Is that like Malachi, where we read, “I Jehovah change not, and ye, sons of Jacob, are not consumed?” And later He says, “Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith Jehovah of Hosts.” Is that an indication of the feelings of God in relation to His people, He never gives them up?

PB I wonder if you would help us as to your remark as to the thorn-bush applying to Christ? How does it apply to Christ?

SMcC Well, from another angle, the lowly circumstances into which He came, “the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us;” tabernacled among us. The lowly external circumstances in which Christ was here, God was there in the position.

CW I was wondering as to the end of Luke, where the Lord comes to the disciples and opens up their understanding, so that they might understand the scriptures; and they were to wait in Jerusalem until they were clothed with power from on high.

SMcC Yes, they are getting help. We shall always get help when there is an interest, and we come under the Lord’s hand.

GHW-n Does this emphasise the need for the recognition of the Spirit, in order that we might be maintained on the elevation of the mountain of God?

SMcC It is mentioned before Horeb, notice. They did not come to Horeb first, but to the mountain of God, as if the writer Moses, would take into account, faith would understand, the importance of this remark; “came to the mountain of God.” It is where God discloses Himself, unfolds His heart to the people. And entering into this particular section is the peculiar feature of revelation. That is, Elohim is not revelation, it is what someone arrives at in their souls in the apprehension of God; but what enters into this commissioning of Moses is not just that, but revelation.

JD And He says later, “ye shall serve God upon this mountain.”

LPJ Would you say a word more as to what you had in your mind when you spoke of God dwelling amongst His people according to the good pleasure of His own will?

SMcC Well, I think it is God there in the saints - the mystery of it. It is a great mystery. The gospels in that way are a great mystery, how God was there in Christ, in Jesus. We certainly turn aside to see the gospels, the great sight, to look over the gospels more, with the help of the Spirit; and then how wonderful is the position, God amongst His people.

GGB Would you say a little with regard to leadership? Moses, in Isaiah, leads them through the depths; and here now he is leading them to the elevated thoughts of God.

SMcC Well, I think the one underlies the other. The Psalms are the great Song book of Israel. They give us both sides, the side of the depths and the mountain of God too. Both sides run collaterally through the Psalms. What the mountain of God is in all its blessedness, and what the depths are.

JEH Thinking of God’s great pleasure in His people, would we see it in Numbers, even though it comes out of the lips of a man like Balaam?

SMcC Well, it does. That is really what comes out in what Moses had to say in Deuteronomy. He sees the people according to what they are in God’s sight.

FW Is the matter of the thorn-bush primarily incarnation?

SMcC I think it is. I think that is the great suggestion in it.

FW There has been the thought before us, of its bearing upon the saints, but I suppose primarily it is Christ in incarnation?

SMcC Well, exactly. So that the gospels, as we were saying, is what we should turn aside to see. The prime thought is God coming down into these circumstances in Christ. Wonderful sight!

WJB It says that they contemplated His glory. Would that have an analogy with Moses contemplating this sight?

SMcC That corresponds. It is a great sight. And then as it goes on to say in verse 7, “Jehovah said, I have seen assuredly the affliction of my people who are in Egypt, and their cry have I heard on account of their taskmasters; for I know their sorrows. And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good and spacious land, unto a land flowing with milk and honey.” Showing what was in mind, as it were, coming in in Christ. The mystery of the incarnation. It is a marvellous thing, when we take account of it. A Divine Person here, in these lowly conditions.

JC Did not Moses act intelligently, to bring this in as one of the blessings on Joseph. “The good will of him that dwelt in the bush”?

SMcC Yes. Now when we come to chapter 15, we get this remarkable song, and we can see the exalted objectives that are in mind, and brought into the view of the people so early; as in verse 13, referring to God, Moses says, “Thou by thy mercy hast led forth the people that thou hast redeemed; Thou hast guided them by thy strength unto the abode of thy holiness. The peoples heard it, they were afraid.” Then verse 17, “Thou shalt bring them in, and plant them in the mountain of thine inheritance, The place that thou, Jehovah, hast made thy dwelling, The Sanctuary, Lord, that thy hands have prepared.” The full thought in David’s ministry and Solomon’s ministry is looked on to, showing how right leadership would keep in the minds of the saints, before the hearts of the saints, these great objectives in the truth.

JD We read in chapter 3, “The place whereon thou standest is holy ground.” Here it says, “Thou has guided them by thy strength unto the abode of thy holiness.” Would you say a word as to that?

SMcC Well, I suppose an allusion is made to the tabernacle, “the abode of thy holiness.”

JD I was wondering about that, the cloud covering it and the glory filling it?

SMcC When we come on to verse 17, it is the ministry of David that would be in mind. We have the ministry of Moses in “the abode of thy holiness,” pitching the tabernacle. Moses pitched the tabernacle; but then verse 17, “in the mountain of thine inheritance,” would involve the Davidic and Solomonic side, showing how all the truth is in mind. The Spirit is come to guide us into all the truth, and it is brought into their view so early.

JC Does that come into prominence in Nehemiah’s time, “Moses the servant of God,” and “David the Man of God”?

SMcC Yes, you find that in all the revivals, the light is cumulative. You get the ministry of Moses, in one revival, and in the next revival the ministry of David; then in the next revival, the ministry of Moses, David and Solomon; showing how cumulative light is.

PB In relation to the song, it is noted that Moses is linked with the children of Israel, in the singular, why is that? “I will sing unto Jehovah ... My strength and song is Jah.” He says “my God,” and, “I will glorify him.”

SMcC Yes. It says, “Then sang Moses and the children of Israel this song.” Moses is leading in this great matter. It could be rightly called the song of Moses. The refrain is taken up by Miriam; but Moses is, as it were, leading in this great matter as to the truth.

PB And all the saints are one in it, the singular; is that the idea?

SMcC Yes. It shows how far we can be carried in light, even while we may not be in it actually as to state. Under this kind of leadership, the saints may be carried a long way in light.

JHH Is the power seen in the next chapter where Moses instructs Aaron what to say? It says in verse 10, “that they turned toward the wilderness.” That is the power in leadership, is it not, turning them toward the wilderness - even though at the point they may be murmuring a little - and the glory appeared?

SMcC And they see the glory. This song is something like that, it is on that principle.

ENJ You were speaking of the distance to which leadership might take us, beyond where we have actually reached subjectively. Would that help us in relation to some of the hymns which are not readily understood by the brethren, that we should continue to sing them?

SMcC The song of Moses is a channel or vehicle of light; responsive movement, in which the people move with the help of Moses; but their state, of course, is not equal to it.

JD Is there not a beautiful touch in Revelation in where it says that “they sing the song of Moses bondman of God, and the song of the Lamb saying, Great and wonderful are thy works, Lord God Almighty; Righteous and true are thy ways, O King of nations,” then, “Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name?”

SMcC It is remarkable that it should come in there, where it does.

JNG Do you think that leadership would mean that we would always be left with the impression, in ministry, that there is something greater left to come?

SMcC Yes. A great thing that we should be reminded of, that in regard to the truth, there is always something beyond us. Now when we come to Deuteronomy 33, it says, “this is the blessing, wherewith Moses the man of God blessed the children of Israel before his death. And he said, Jehovah came from Sinai, And rose up from Seir unto them; He shone forth from mount Paran, And he came from the myriads of the sanctuary; From his right hand went forth a law of fire for them. Yea, he loveth the peoples, All his saints are in thy hand, And they sit down at thy feet; Each receiveth of thy words.” This section brings before us and leaves with us an impression of Moses’ regard for the people. What, in type, the work of God would mean to him. He had been with them all through the wilderness, all through the various trials and vicissitudes of the wilderness, the desert; but look at the way he can speak now about the saints. What a man he was! What princely spiritual power is there in type?

GJG And along with that, he is speaking about God, is he not? He is attributing all the leadership to God himself.

SMcC And it says in verse 5, that “he was king in Jeshurun. When the heads of the people and the tribes of Israel were gathered together.” What a reference to Moses, the place that he acquires amongst an upright people. How the affections of the saints surrounded him, reminding us of the great place Christ has amongst His people, on the lines of headship.

JMcN And then the fact of his writing a song at the end of the wilderness, as at the beginning of Exodus 15 would indicate the spirit of triumph in which he went through the wilderness.

SMcC Yes. Making much of God. And then his eulogy of the saints here. Not what the flesh was, what mere nature was; but what the saints are as the result of the work of God, for that is what the type would mean. And the result of all true leadership, the spirit of Christ in leadership, and in administrative service amongst the saints, would leave an impression like this. That is, the greatness of the saints.

JMcN I have been wondering why Aaron and Miriam are included in leadership in Micah 6: 42?

SMcC Well, I think it is to stress the great features of it that were seen in all three. Moses and Aaron are referred to in Psalm 77, but when you come to Micah 6 it is Moses, Aaron, and Miriam, stressing the full thought of what the people were under in the wilderness.

GGB A little earlier you mentioned the thought of meekness as connecting with Moses, in leadership. Perhaps you had something further in mind?

SMcC Well, you remember that when they spoke against him in Numbers 12, the Spirit of God gives us that reference. Moses does not say anything, but God comes in Himself to defend Moses. What marks him is meekness. That is, he was not seeking to defend himself. No one who is with God would seek to defend himself. God can come into any matter, as He does in Numbers.

EJ The thought of the commonwealth, our commonwealth is in heaven and we are blessed with every spiritual blessing in the heavenlies in Christ?

SMcC I do not think that is the side of the truth so much. I think the side of the truth here is what the saints are in Moab, not in heavenly places; but what they are in Moab, as a result of the teaching of the brazen serpent and the springing well. It is what they are according to the work of God in them, even in these surroundings.

JD And these are the people that are going in?

SMcC That is the kind of people that is going in.

ENJ Does it connect with what the Lord Jesus says to his disciples, “ye are they who have persevered with in my temptations”? He is giving them great credit?

SMcC Yes. So that we should all be on the lines of making the most of the saints, speaking the best of them and about them, because they are God’s chosen.