JUDGMENT (8)
JUDGMENT (8)
JT We were reminded on the last occasion that chapter 1 has a certain distinguishing character; that is, the truth is presented abstractly; hence the statements beginning with verse 4: “I thank my God always about you, in respect of the grace of God given to you in Christ Jesus; that in everything ye have been enriched in him, in all word of doctrine, and all knowledge (according as the testimony of the Christ has been confirmed in you), so that ye come short in no gift, awaiting the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ”. It was remarked, as already said, that there is an abstract character to this passage, making it really objective truth, but so stated in order to lay the basis of what the apostle had in his mind to bring forth in regard to local conditions. Therefore it might be wondered that the beginning of this chapter 3 says, “I, brethren, have not been able to speak to you as to spiritual, but as to fleshly; as to babes in Christ. I have given you milk to drink, not meat, for ye have not yet been able, nor indeed are ye yet able; for ye are yet carnal”. Now these statements may cause some inquiry as compared with what we have read from the first chapter, but what has been said is important to bear in mind, that the first chapter deals with the truth in the abstract, and this chapter deals with the actual state of things in Corinth.
ABP Is it possible that the condition or state of some may be used as representative of the company, so that the apostle may rightly speak of a higher state than existed in the main, having the few in mind?
JT I think that is possible, especially when we take notice of such a person as Chloe (chapter 1: 11), “For it has been shewn to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of the house of Chloe, that there are strifes among you”. Apparently she would be one that lived there who was reliable, and of course there may have been many others; we would trust so. But at the same time what has been remarked about the first chapter as compared with this is to be noted, that there was generally a very low state amongst them. And the second epistle brings out that there was a very serious condition, in a way one of the worst conditions imaginable; so that you wonder at it. Paul says, he had the readiness to avenge all disobedience (a very strong word) when their obedience was fulfilled; that is, when the mass of the brethren got right. So that we have to look at what is actually said here and seek to bring the truth home to ourselves according to what is said. There may be those here who are fleshly. We would not imply that, only we have to face the actual facts that there were a large number of such in Corinth. And, of course, there are a goodly number of brethren here in this city, so that the question is as to what their state is. The thought is not to drag the brethren down to occupation with a low state of things, but to elevate them out of it as much as possible. Still, we have to face the facts.
AR It says in verse 3, “there are among you emulation and strife”. That does not include everybody, does it? I suppose that would make allowance for such as the house of Chloe?
JT Yet the word was for everybody. She would have to listen to it if she were there; but undoubtedly she felt everything, and of course that is a great matter. We can confidently count that in every gathering of the saints there are those who are reliable. On the other hand there may be those who are not, and we have to bear them in mind.
ANW Is there a distinction to be noted between “the natural man” in chapter 2: 14, and the carnal state here in our chapter as being that [p. 404] which is blameworthy?
What is merely natural may not be exactly blameworthy.
JT I would think so. Carnal is a word, of course, that may refer to what is natural as well; but there is a difference in that the word carnality makes a very bad suggestion.
CAM Is it not a fact that the word carnal may be applied to those who really have the Spirit, while “the natural man” in verse 14 of the previous chapter does not have the Spirit?
JT Just so. The word fleshly in verse 1, according to the footnote in the New Translation, is said to mean ‘properly the material — the composition of a thing’. That is important. The word carnal occurs twice in verse 3 and, as the footnote says, is ‘used, in some places, to express either material or physical or moral ideas’. So that the words carnal and natural run together.
JTJr The words cover a great deal as related to our natural proclivities; this may enter into our part in the things of God.
JT It becomes quite solemn that it appears just here in view of our subject, the saints being the temple of God, the shrine, the place in which God is to be apprehended and known and inquired of. So the apostle says, “I have given you milk to drink, not meat, for ye have not been able, nor indeed are ye yet able; for ye are yet carnal. For whereas there are among you emulation and strife, are ye not carnal, and walk according to man? For when one says, I am of Paul”, and so on. So that we have a concrete example here that they were partisans; the saints were apparently divided into parties in the meeting. That, of course, is liable to reappear now. We can thank God that we cannot say it is current amongst us here, but it is well to look into it, and to inquire if there is any likelihood of it.
[p. 405] WAT He calls them carnal, and for that reason he gives them milk to drink. In Hebrews we are told that those that partake of milk are unskilled in the word of righteousness. Is that a feature of the carnal mind, that it is unskilled in the word of righteousness?
JT Well, it would seem so; the passage that you quote is quite in keeping with what we are saying; that is, it refers to persons who are either in a low state or not christians at all. And it is quite possible that there are many among the Lord’s people, who are in fellowship, who really have not the Spirit, and it ought to be looked into by each of us as to whether each of us has the Spirit.
EAL Is this emulation independency?
JT It would be the spirit of rivalry, I would think, amongst the Corinthians.
AR The only way to get into the shrine in Solomon’s temple would be by the Spirit, in type, would it not? The two doors to the holiest were made of olive wood.
JT Very good, showing that the Spirit was in mind.
AR So that everyone who would enter there must have the Spirit.
JT Quite so. There were folding doors in Solomon’s temple, suggesting the thought of familiarity and confidence in one another amongst us.
JTJr We get the expression “the things of the Spirit of God”, in the previous chapter. That would mean those things that are related to the Spirit of God. The natural man cannot receive them.
JT Thus, unless we judge what is mere nature, although we may be in fellowship nominally, we have not yet received the Spirit. In a later book it speaks of certain persons “not having the Spirit”, Jude 19.
AR Paul said to the twelve men at Ephesus, “Did ye receive the Holy Spirit when ye had believed?” as if there was a question as to it in his [p. 406] mind.
JT He did not ask whether they were sealed, although there is such a thing as sealing, as stated in 2 Corinthians 1: 22. It was a question whether they had received the Spirit, showing how the Spirit is presented to us, to be received. So it is said, “how much rather shall the Father who is of heaven give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?” Luke 11: 13. How practical all that is! Each one should question himself as to whether he has the Spirit. There are ways and means of knowing whether we have the Spirit.
CFE Do you look at this as rebuke, from the third verse on?
JT Most decidedly. “For whereas there are among you emulation and strife, are ye not carnal, and walk according to man?” It is not according to men, but according to man. It is characteristic. “For when one says, I am of Paul, and another, I of Apollos, are ye not men?”
JHH Would loving the brethren be a proof of having the Spirit?
JT Very good. The fruits of the Spirit are given in Galatians 5; there are nine of these fruits mentioned. “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, fidelity, meekness, self-control”. Quite a range! So that we need not be at a loss to know whether we have the Spirit or not, and everyone should search himself on those lines. When you preach the gospel do you challenge people as to whether they have the Spirit?
JHH I remember hearing several years ago that we do not mention the Spirit enough in our preachings. Would you agree?
JT I certainly would.
CLN Is it right to preach Christ glorified?
JT Quite so. Do you mean that the apprehension of Christ glorified indicates that the person has [p. 407] the Spirit?
CLN Elijah says to Elisha, “if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so to thee”. It was when Elisha had asked for a double portion of his spirit. That is a great matter.
JHE Would you say that the eunuch saw Christ glorified and then he was ready for baptism? The preaching was so effective that he wanted no more place in this world; he was ready to leave this world.
JT Quite so. Now as to the query: Does preaching Christ glorified imply that one may have the Spirit if he believes; that is, if he believes in Christ glorified? Well, that is true to some extent; but at the same time Luke enlarges on the fact that the Spirit may be asked for from the Father who is of heaven and that the Father gives the Spirit.
FSC One has often received great comfort from 1 John 4: 12, 13: “if we love one another, God abides in us, and his love is perfected in us. Hereby we know that we abide in him and he in us, that he has given to us of his Spirit”.
JT There it is; “Hereby we know ... that he has given to us of his Spirit;” so that we may know that we have the Spirit. That is a good scripture.
JTJr In the reference to Ephesus which was made earlier, the question was, “Did ye receive the Holy Spirit when ye had believed?” They had believed, but they had not received the Spirit, and that is possible, is it not?
JT Quite so; therefore it becomes a very wholesome question which one has often asked, as to whether a believer has the Spirit; whether, as believing the gospel, he also has the Spirit.
WAT One has often wondered, in relation to the preaching of the gospel, whether it is good to challenge persons as to whether they have been born again, born of the Spirit. Should one do it?
JT Well, that is right, but it does not go far enough.
[p. 408] Certain believers use the letters B.A. for born again, and I am afraid of it; it is too concise for the meaning that should be attached to the idea of being born again, because it is a transaction of the Spirit. But then it may be short of the possession of the Spirit, of the sealing of the Spirit. What do you say about that?
WAT That is what I felt, but I wondered what you would say as to it.
JT I am glad you say that. But then what about the enlarging thought of the new birth? First it is, “Except any one be born anew he cannot see the kingdom of God”, John 3: 3. Then, in verse 5, “Except any one be born of water and of Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God”. Now these are concrete things, and persons who are seeking the truth ought to be reminded that it is a question, first of seeing, and second of entering.
JAP Would the Holy Spirit save us from the parties you called attention to in this chapter? It says in chapter 12: 13, “For also in the power of one Spirit we have all been baptised into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bondmen or free, and have all been given to drink of one Spirit”. Would that save us from what the Corinthians were saying, according to verses 4 and 5 of our chapter?
JT The we is emphatic; “we have all been baptised into one body, ... and have all been given to drink of one Spirit”. It is not simply to be sealed, but to drink, showing the preference and the enjoyment that I have, the satisfaction that accrues to me by the reception of the Spirit.
JTJr Another important thing in the twelfth chapter is that “no one can say, Lord Jesus, unless in the power of the Holy Spirit”. That is a very searching matter, for many call Jesus, Lord. They take on certain phrases, but the whole point is whether it is by the Spirit. We have heard certain on the street corner say,
‘Hallelujah, praise the Lord!’ Well, it is a question of the Spirit in Corinthians, and you could not say that all of these exclamations are in the Spirit.
EAL You mean you cannot recognise the lordship of Christ unless you have the Spirit?
JTJr Well, quite so; no one can say Lord Jesus, unless in the power of the Holy Spirit. It must be that same Spirit, as I understand it.
AR Is it possible for a person who has not the Spirit to say, Lord Jesus?
JT They might use the words, but the question is, does it come from the heart? The title “the Lord Jesus” is a beautiful phrase in itself. It refers to affection, I think peculiar affection. The word Jesus being added to the title, Lord, as showing that the heart is touched. “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit”, Stephen says, Acts 7: 59.
ABP Is the Spirit involved in the word in 2 Timothy? “The Lord knows those that are his”.
JT Well, they would be His even though they did not have the Spirit; I mean, as a question of property. If they were born again they would be His in that sense, but, “the Lord knows those that are his” would include all that belong to Him.
ABP I wondered if the knowing there would be an active thing, not just a matter of accepted knowledge, but used in the same sense as when the Lord says, “I do not know you”, Luke 13: 27. Does the knowledge in 2 Timothy mean a personal living contact and transaction?
JT Of course, it would be absolutely right if the Lord said it. He knows those who are His property, the thousands, we might say, in christendom that belong to Him. The Lord knows every one of them, but they may not have the Spirit.
ANW How far does that word go, “if any one has not the Spirit of Christ he is not of him”? Romans 8: 9.
JT That is a very solemn matter, and it comes in [p. 410] peculiarly there, because the point there is to bring out the service of the Spirit. The Spirit is mentioned about thirteen times in the eighth chapter of Romans, and it is to bring out that He characterises christianity.
CLN Is the title Lord Jesus peculiar to the assembly?
JT I think so. If anyone looks into the usage of it, as no doubt you have done, he will be touched by the fact that affection for the Lord is implied. Take, for instance, the words in Acts 20:35 that the apostle spoke to the elders: “remember the words of the Lord Jesus, that he himself said, It is more blessed to give than to receive”.
ANW The canon of Scripture closes with the term in Revelation 22, “Amen; come, Lord Jesus”.
TEH We may not all be able to evidence all of the nine fruits of the Spirit in Galatians 5, but most of us should exhibit something of the last fruit, self-control. The youngest believer would be helped by the Spirit as to that. Our demeanour and deportment in general should show self-control.
JT Very important, and very practical, too.
AR I have wondered, in regard to the Holy Spirit, if we are not defective in speaking about the meaning of the fire. Matthew 3: 11 says of the Lord, “he shall baptise you with the Holy Spirit and fire”. There was fire at Pentecost, too: “there appeared ... parted tongues, as of fire, and it sat upon each one of them”.
JT There is an allusion to fire here in our chapter that we might link up: “If the work of any one shall be consumed, he shall suffer loss, but he shall be saved, but so as through the fire”. And verse 13 says that “the work of each shall be made manifest; for the day shall declare it, because it is revealed in fire; and the fire shall try the work of each what it is”. The test to which our work shall be subjected bears on this question of [p. 411] the Spirit.
JTJr Do you not think that the light that comes out in the temple should govern our judgments in matters that come up amongst us? We recently had need for the assertion of the truth as to the powers that be, in Romans 13. There it is a question of the light that is in the temple governing this great matter.
JT That is good, and is, perhaps, needed by some of us here in this city. We may assume that the powers that be are to be regarded just as the world is, but that is not so at all, because they represent God, they are ordained of God.
JC The Lord Jesus brings all the truth before us in John 16, saying that the Spirit of truth shall guide us into all the truth.
JT Well, there is nothing more important than that, because we are supposed to have the Spirit amongst us now, this evening. And what we are saying to one another ought to be governed by the temple, just as we have been remarking. It is a question of temple light, not simply what the Scripture says of itself, but what may be brought out by the Spirit at this present moment, something that perhaps we have never considered so carefully before. That is the idea of the present action of the Spirit and the temple of God. A question might bring it out. So we can see the importance of asking questions and asking them properly, and in an orderly way, and answering them, too.
JTJr If carnal conditions are present, they will rather hinder the matter, but if there are spiritual conditions, they will lead to the thoughts of God coming in.
CAM Will you say something about the sentence in verse 12: “Now if any one build upon this foundation ...” and then it gives certain materials, speaking about the work of each.
JT Well now, as seeking to move in an orderly [p. 412] way in the chapter and get the benefit of it, we have already touched on the partisan conditions which the apostle rebukes. Then he goes on to say, verse 6, “I have planted; Apollos watered; but God has given the increase. So that neither the planter is anything, nor the waterer; but God the giver of the increase. But the planter and the waterer are one; but each shall receive his own reward according to his own labour”. I think that is a very important thing for every one of us who is labouring in the Lord’s field, because there is a reward attached to our labour. And then he says, verse 9, “For we are God’s fellow-workmen; ye are God’s husbandry, God’s building. According to the grace of God which has been given to me, as a wise architect, I have laid the foundation, but another builds upon it. But let each see how he builds upon it. For other foundation can no man lay besides that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ”. So that we have now before us these great facts of the work of God in the foundational sense, and men actually engaged in the work, and that God is saying, I will give you wages, you are not going to be working for Me for nothing. Heaven does not hire anybody that it does not pay for his work. So that we get reward. At the same time there are these great facts of God’s husbandry, God’s building; that is what the saints are.
FNW If anyone is engaged in the work of the Lord today, by the Spirit, will he be in accord with the idea of the wise architect?
JT Well, he should be; it is a question of the plan. No man would take on a contract for a building unless he begins with the blue-print, as we say. The plan is laid out and then he must know what the work is that is to be done, and the material to be used, and the dimensions. These are great spiritual matters and the Spirit of God is graciously laying them before us.
TEH Why does the agricultural [p. 413] suggestion come first before the architect and the construction of the building?
JT There is a word in Proverbs that says, “Prepare thy work without, and put thy field in order, and afterwards build thy house”, Proverbs 24: 27. Therefore the idea of the agricultural comes first and then the building. The agricultural matter is a support to the family, and then comes the building where they live. So we have the two thoughts, agriculture and building.
JTJr Apollos watered; that is, his service followed Paul’s, but he did not root the thing up. He supported, the ministry. The two of them were one, in that sense.
JT That is good.
ABP When the Lord said to Paul, “I have much people in this city”, did He leave a certain latitude with Paul as to how he would go about procuring them, and how he would put them together, which would require the help and guidance of the Spirit in what he did?
JT Well, I think that is good. It is a question therefore of going about from house to house. Mr. Darby used to go from house to house visiting the saints. That is the idea. Therefore, the idea here is that of building, of going to the saints who are the material for the building, so that we become acquainted with the brethren, their mode of living and the like, and as knowing them we know what is needed to deliver them and keep them in the Spirit.
CLN Paul did that at Ephesus.
JT That is just what he did. He speaks of it in Acts 20, how he admonished them with tears, night and day, and from house to house. That chapter, I believe, contains a great pattern for every one of us who serves, particularly as beginning with love and ending with love; and in the middle there is love too. The embrace of Eutychus comes in the middle of the chapter.
FHL Would it be right to connect what was given [p. 414] to Paul as a wise architect with what was committed to Moses and to David in relation to the tabernacle and the temple?
JT Exactly, and to Solomon too. God works by measure. We have the idea of measure in the second epistle. And so Moses worked by measure, he was a long time at it; and so did David; and so did Solomon; and so did Paul, who was a wise architect, a remarkable designation. The idea of architecture is in the eighth of Proverbs. According to the note there, the word nursling, in verse 30, may be rendered ‘the nursling of his love’, or, ‘his artificer’, showing the idea of love in architecture.
ABP The thought of Paul being an architect seems to leave room for his skill in design. It would seem as though some detail of design at Corinth was left to the apostle.
JT He was not wanting in that.
ABP Would that exemplify the way the servant would use the Spirit? In this same epistle he gives an opinion, which is not a commandment; still, he says, “I think that I also have God’s Spirit”.
JT It is the only place you get such an expression. It is in the seventh chapter of this epistle. Paul speaks of his own judgment, but he says, in principle, I believe I have the Spirit in my judgment. So that the architect in that sense has the Spirit; and that brings out the whole thought of what we call the shrine, the temple of God. The word shrine may be used to signify it.
GH Have you the architectural idea in connection with Eve? God took the rib out of Adam and built a woman.
JT That is right. It is the first time you get the word built in Scripture. Eve is the person who is built, meaning that the assembly is in mind.
TEH In Exodus 31 there is the suggestion in connection with Bezaleel who had been filled with “the [p. 415] spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in every work to devise artistic work” in connection with the building of the tabernacle.
JT Showing the beautiful designs which God had in mind. It says of the Spirit, that He garnished the heavens, a wonderful thought; the heavens were garnished by the Spirit of God. And that shows how the idea that we are dealing with now is brought down amongst us; that is to say, among the saints that form the assembly, because all these great thoughts are to be worked out in us. It is a question of garnishing, of skill, the skill of order and the like worked out amongst us.
DPC What is the thought of sealing that you brought out earlier in connection with the Spirit?
JT There are three thoughts there in 2 Corinthians 1: 21: “Now he that establishes us with you in Christ”, that is the first thing; “and has anointed us”, the second; “... who also has sealed us”, is third. Sealing is like God saying, You are my property, I put my stamp on you, everybody will know that you belong to Me. That is the idea, because everyone ought to be marked off by the divine pattern, the divine stamp.
JTJr It has great force there, because the verse concludes that God has “given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts”. It is in our hearts.
JT So the thing is in the heart to make us joyous and rich. God is not dealing with poor people, spiritually. He does not want us to keep poor. He wants us to be enriched. So that we are sealed and have the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
FHL So that in the third chapter he can say, “ye are the temple of God”.
AR Would it be right to say that we do not know love apart from the Spirit? It says in Romans 5: 5 that “the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit”.
JT Quite so; and then if we love one another, it is a question of the power of the Spirit.
SJM Would that verse in 1 John 3 fit in, “We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren”?
JT Just so, one can look into his heart and see what place the brethren have in his heart, and whether he is prejudiced about any of them. Because that is the test of love.
WWM The apostle says at the end of chapter 14, “If any one thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him recognise the things that I write to you, that it is the Lord’s commandment”. We can see that as a wise architect he is not only able to give us the plan but also the specifications. The plans are important but the specifications tell what goes into the structure.
ANW Does all that signalise the apostle’s position as compared with that of the twelve apostles of the Lamb in the foundations of the wall? Does he stand out signally in that way?
JT Well, I believe he was the greatest, although he speaks of himself as the least of the apostles because he persecuted the assembly; but he laboured more than they all; he says, “more abundantly than they all”.
JTJr This thought, therefore, leads on to the assembly as judging. We have a word in Isaiah in regard to the spirit of judgment. It speaks of turning the battle to the gate where things are resolved according to the Spirit.
JT Turning the battle to the gate; the gate is significant there, the place where things are resolved.
JTJr So that in the care meeting the greatest judgments should come out, should they not? The temple having its place and part amongst us, the care meetings in all the localities would reach the same judgments.
JT So that in the last reading there was the allusion [p. 417] to verse 30 of the first chapter, “of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who has been made to us wisdom from God, and righteousness, and holiness, and redemption”. That is to say, you get the filling out of things. Christ is made to us all these things. They are to be employed, carried down into the building, into the structure. There are four of them, wisdom from God, righteousness, holiness, and redemption. How balancing these thoughts are, especially in building! So here we have, “For we are God’s fellow-workmen; ye are God’s husbandry, God’s building. According to the grace of God which has been given to me, as a wise architect, I have laid the foundation, but another builds upon it. But let each see how he builds upon it. For other foundation can no man lay besides that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ”. It is as if Paul is saying, I am final in all that I am doing according to Christ’s appointment as to me. Well, you might say, Why has Peter another word? The revelation he got was from the Father. But Paul has something here that is distinctive and that fits in at Corinth. The Lord says of Peter, “thou art Peter, and on this rock I will build my assembly”. Peter had confessed that Jesus is “the Christ, the Son of the living God”. That was Peter’s confession, but that is not what you get here exactly. This is Paul’s side of the truth, that of a man who knows the people he is dealing with. Matthew 16 is a question of the assembly in general, not locally, but in general, whereas here we are dealing with a local assembly and it is a question of the condition of it and the material in it, and how it is to be worked and dealt with.
JTJr So he had actually laid the foundation in Corinth, the thing was there in spite of these carnal conditions that existed.
JT Showing how real his work was in spite of the conditions. He laid the real foundation, and the foundation is said to be Jesus Christ. You may say [p. 418] that is different from what Peter says, but it is not different, it is another phase; it is Jesus Christ, not Christ Jesus. Jesus Christ is the Man that one might have met in Galilee at any time when He was here. And men like Him were in Corinth, and the idea is that they are there to be seen by anyone. Paul’s work was made good in them so far, so that the Lord Himself says to Paul, “Fear not, ... I am with thee ... I have much people in this city”, Acts 18: 9. And that “much people” must be like Christ. The foundation is the Man, Jesus Christ.
FSC That would be another order of man in contrast to the old man.
JT It would be so far, only it is not Christ Jesus, but Jesus Christ. That is to say, it is the Man that is to be known here; it is His name here in responsibility. Men see what He is in those who are like Him here. Christ is seen in us.
JAP Is the Galilean position a test to us in our localities? Mark 16: 7 says, “tell his disciples and Peter, he goes before you into Galilee”. We have to take up the Galilean position, but they were reigning in Corinth.
JT Very good; and reigning without Paul. He said that he would that they did reign that he may reign with them; that is, we should then be in the millennium. But it was a question of Galilee; the disciples had to meet the Lord in Galilee.
RHS Is there any link between this building and that in 1 Peter 2: 5, “a spiritual house, a holy priesthood”? It has to do there with the things Paul speaks of here, laying aside malice, etc.
JT I would think so, only Peter is dealing with it in a general way, while Paul is dealing with a local company; but it is the same principle, it is a question of the material in the building and how it is utilised.
AR The work should be to build the same kind [p. 419] of man. The Lord said to Saul of Tarsus, “I am Jesus whom thou persecutest”. That is the kind of Man that is to be built into the structure here.
ETP In Acts 1 the apostles are addressed, “Men of Galilee”; then in Acts 2 the Spirit comes upon them, and Peter says that Jesus, having been exalted, “has poured out this which ye behold and hear”, as if it is something substantial in the saints.
JT And so Peter stands up at Jerusalem, not in Galilee, because Galilee was not chosen for the first preaching. Jerusalem was. And Peter was the first preacher, because it is said of him, “First Peter”; he was the first preacher. And he says, Listen to me. Evidently his voice rang out in Jerusalem, and he said, “give heed to my words”, and there were three thousand converted at that preaching. So we can see what Peter was, and what Paul was. The Holy Spirit does not make so much of the number of Paul’s converts but He does number Peter’s: He says that there were three thousand added. It does not say converted; but added; that is, added to what was there, which was the handiwork of Christ. But Peter’s addition was equal to it; they were added to what was there.
ABP When Paul went to Corinth he said that he did not judge it well to know anything among them save Jesus Christ, and Him crucified. I suppose that would be truly the Galilean position.
JT Quite so; and the Galilean position is a very important one because reproach was attached to it. The apostles were Galileans; the crowd said, “are not all these who are speaking Galileans?” Acts 2: 7. They were known by their speech. But Jerusalem was the place where the learned ones were; they had sent to John the Baptist to inquire as to him and where he got his commission, but he said he was just a voice crying in the wilderness, “Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight his paths”. Well, that is the thing,
[p. 420] and Paul is here making His path straight, making a way for the Lord.
ABP Would the foundation being Jesus Christ have in mind what is formed in a positive inward way in the saints in relation to the temple and the service of God?
JT I think it is the ordinary effect of the testimony on Christians, that we are the same as He would be, as Luke presents Him. It says, “For other foundation can no man lay besides that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any one build upon this foundation, gold, silver, precious stones, wood, grass, straw, the work of each shall be made manifest; for the day shall declare it”, verse 11. It is the day, that is, it has its own place and importance, because fire enters into the day; everything will be tested fully at that time. So that Paul is aiming at first class work; he is the architect of the building and he wants it all according to his plan. Then all these things are mentioned: gold, silver, precious stones, wood, grass, straw. Well, you can see how the fire would deal with that material. It is a question of whether it will stand the test of the fire. If that be applied to New York, now, where there are so many nominal Christians, how will they fare when the test comes? And the test is coming.
SJM There is a verse in the 45th Psalm: “her clothing is of wrought gold”, as if it had stood the test.
JT That is the idea, wrought gold. David speaks about certain gold that he had, three thousand talents of it. He had a hundred thousand talents of other gold, but he had three thousand talents of the gold of Ophir, which is to be noted when we are dealing with this matter now.
FNW It says further of David at the end of 1 Chronicles that he had passed on to Solomon what he had received by the Spirit. Is it important for us to pass on what we [p. 421] receive?
JT Showing that David was not in a way so far behind Paul, because his labour involved the Spirit of God.
AR Do you think that what was at Pentecost was beyond the fire?
JT I think so; it was equal to the fire, it could be tested; and it was tested, too. So you get in Revelation 21 that the twelve apostles are in the foundation. They stood the test fully, we can say. How Paul valued these Corinthian saints! You wonder at the place they had in his affections. We were looking at the third chapter of the second epistle recently and noticing how Paul refers to what they were to him; he says, “Ye are our letter, written in our hearts, known and read of all men”. That is the way he regarded them; wherever he went he would speak about the Corinthians. He would say, so to speak, You should come to Corinth and see the work that is there!
CWM What we have been considering in this chapter as to the field, the planting and watering, then the foundation and the building, and then as to everything being tested by the fire, would all lead us to the temple.
JT Quite so, that is what he says, “Do ye not know that ye are the temple of God?” Apparently they did not know, they were really greater than they understood. “Do ye not know that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?” So that the whole matter depends on the Spirit in that sense, that He dwelt in them, not simply that He was in them but He dwelt in them.
CWM Would it, in that sense, come out in us day by day as we apply the fire of self-judgment to ourselves? In that way the truth of the holiness of the temple of God is seen coming out in us.
JT Exactly. Think of the greatness of the thought, too, of inquiring in His temple! The psalmist says, “that I may dwell in the house of the Lord ... and to inquire in his temple”. That is what we are doing now, at this very moment. We are inquiring in the temple of God. It is a question, not only of the dear brethren being here, but of the fact that they have the Spirit. That makes them such a potential power in the meeting. Everyone of us having the Spirit! What a difference it makes if you have the same number of persons next door not having the Spirit; there could be no such meeting as this. It is a question of the Spirit and of the work of God in us; so that the temple is so advantageous that we may inquire in it.
WWM When the apostle says, “ye are the temple”, is it a collective idea?
JT Quite so, it is a question of the saints. Abstractly it is the whole company of the saints from Pentecost to the coming of the Lord; such is the vastness of it. If you look at Revelation 21 you see how vast it is: the length and the breadth and the height of it are equal. It is a solid thing.
AEW Although there is the city position, there are the local gatherings where we have our local readings. Does the idea of the Spirit help us in the availability of the temple as we meet locally?
JT That is the idea. The Spirit of God is wonderfully lowly and comes to where the saints are in a great number or in a small number. We can count on Him being there. How comforting that is in small meetings, that we can count on His presence!
FHL Is it right to speak of the “temple of God” in New York, or in Plainfield, in the light of the whole?
JT I think so, if we are not boastful about it, if we are lowly about it, that there is such a thing as that. Because God is saying that the whole matter of christianity still remains. It is a question of our finding out how it may be applied, and how it comes to the actual working of it.
JAP Is everyone needed for this, not only [p. 423] the brothers that take part, as we do now?
JT All the saints are needed for the whole assembly. So you get the idea of the whole assembly coming together in one place in chapter 14, as if God would say, I want to get the best I have in Corinth, and I want you all to get together in one place at one time.
CFE The apostle seems to give the Corinthians a very good standing here in verse 17: he says, “for the temple of God is holy, and such are ye”.
JT And then, also, he speaks of the terribleness of anyone corrupting it! That is most solemn.
DP Would the temple at Corinth be the dwelling place of the Spirit over against the Greek temple, and the place where the Jews met?
JT That is the idea. If a simple person wrought upon by the Spirit of God came in among the saints he would fall down and worship God; he would be convicted of all and judged of all. That is what is contemplated in chapter 14.
AP-f Would you say a word about the believer’s body being the temple of the Holy Spirit?
JT That is the way the Spirit of God is graciously reducing the thought to bring it down to one person. But one person cannot have the Spirit entirely, he has part in it. But in the assembly, the Spirit is an entire thought, just as He was in Christ. The entire thought of the Spirit was in Christ personally, and so He is in the assembly.
GH What is the thought of the names of the apostles in the foundations in the Revelation?
JT To bring out the quality of the foundation, that it is the handiwork of Christ. That is what the twelve apostles were. Paul is not mentioned.
EAL The Spirit being in the assembly, if one should take up the attitude of not going with accepted assembly truths, he really elects himself out of the sphere of the Spirit’s operations.
[p. 424] JT How solemn that is! In John 3: 34 it says that God gives not His Spirit by measure to Christ, and the same applies to the assembly; the Spirit is not given by measure to it, the Spirit is here in the entire sense, a very great thought.
WTP So that it is no longer a question of milk, we are able to take meat as in this position.
JT It says in verse 18: “Let no one deceive himself: if anyone thinks himself to be wise among you in this world, let him become foolish, that he may be wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God; for it is written, He who takes the wise in their craftiness. And again, The Lord knows the reasonings of the wise that they are vain. So that let no one boast in men; for all things are yours”. Now I want the dear brethren to think of what is in our hands, how it is regarded by Paul; “all things”, he says, “are yours”. “Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things coming, all are yours; and ye are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s”. Is not that wonderful! The Lord would say that to us.
DP Do you think there is a danger of placing one servant over against another?
JT There might be, but Paul is putting them where they should be. They belong to the saints. “Ourselves your bondmen”, he says, “for Jesus’ sake”. The servants belong to the saints in that sense. Of course, they also belong to God.
CAM Does he not give them a very dignified designation in saying that they are God’s fellow-workmen? That would call for great respect.
JT That is what the servants are, and now the saints themselves possess the servants, as it were. They are their property, “ourselves your bondmen for Jesus’ sake”. On the other hand each has to take his place in lowliness. Then “let him that is taught in the word communicate to him that teaches in all good things” (Galatians 6: 6); that is a word to be noted, too. We are to recognise that the servants are worthy of their hire. If they are serving us they should be communicated to in all good things.
AR Paul evidently had this in mind when he said that to remain would be for the sake of the saints. He was their servant, in that sense.