COMPONENT PARTS OF A LOCAL ASSEMBLY
[p. 330] COMPONENT PARTS OF A LOCAL ASSEMBLY
Luke 8: 5 - 56; Matthew 18: 15 - 20
JT In this chapter Luke groups what may be called the component parts of a local meeting — the man, the woman, and the girl. They may be multiplied, of course, for a local company; more men, more women, and more young people, but it is easier to examine each of the features separately, as in one person. In Scripture we have examples of divine thoughts being exemplified in one person. All God’s thoughts are exemplified in Jesus, and no one portrays these more beautifully than Luke. The assembly is of Christ, and in this chapter we have the elements divinely intended to compose it, at least in a local sense. What marked these three persons spiritually is of Christ. The Lord may help us, and use the chapter to give us a better understanding of what is His mind for our gatherings. Then we may see how Matthew supplies the administrative side, Mark the ministerial side, and John would fill us with God, as in Christ.
CAC Could you give us briefly the thoughts connected with the three?
JT The first is the man. As possessed of the demons he represents the terrible condition into which man had fallen — he is seen coming out of the city. Luke would show us the influence of cities especially on young people; we see the influence on this man, and his deliverance from the power of Satan in the city; his attitude, as delivered, is presented as what is seen. The passage says, “And they went out to see what had happened, and came to Jesus, and found the man from whom the demons had gone out, sitting, clothed and sensible, at the feet of Jesus”, verse 35; the thing is seen. The man is not saying anything yet; his attitude is in view. They came to Jesus, but they found this man. It would suggest what is initial in a brother; he is sitting,
[p. 331] and clothed and sensible. A brother needs those three characteristics — to be restful, learning, at the feet of Jesus, and clothed and sensible. The man represents what a brother should be initially; he is ready to learn; there is nothing obtrusive about him, nothing that will hurt anyone, but then, he wants to be with the Lord, wherever He is, and the Lord shows that He has confidence in him, that He can leave him alone in the place. No brother is of much value in a locality unless he can be relied on to stand himself. We are not much called upon to stand in this way, but still it is the divine thought, that each brother should learn to stand by himself, which this man does.
The woman has an internal trouble. It is one relieved of an old trouble, power having gone out of the Lord to effect this. He was conscious that power had gone out of Him, that is, there is something now in her that would work out in subjection and transparency; in the meantime she is endeavouring to conceal that she was cured. A great deal of trouble arises in our meetings because of the want of transparency. Here the Lord brought this woman to tell all the truth before all, and she is owned by the Lord as daughter, that is, she is in family relationship. Then the girl would be the potentiality of young people, and there we have the spiritual element stressed. The Lord orders out of the place those who derided Him, and detained only Peter and James and John, and the parents. So that this young person is revived into a very spiritual environment. We must not assume that young people are not capable of spiritual impressions; it is not wise to classify them by themselves; they will not get much help by themselves; the idea here is that they are brought into an atmosphere where they are impressed by what is spiritual.
CAC That is very good. Is the thought that each of these three becomes a living exponent of the grace and power of [p. 332] Christ?
JT Yes, intelligence in the man, subjection and transparency in the woman, also family affections, and then a spiritual environment into which the girl is brought so that there may be spiritual development in her. It should never be assumed that young people are not capable of spiritual impressions. Segregating them by themselves for their education is damaging. This case would show that they ought to be as much as possible where there are spiritual persons.
HH Do they become a charge on the meeting generally?
JT Yes, three great apostolic leaders, Peter, James, and John, are there, and the Lord Himself; great care is suggested, and then parental responsibility is present, too.
EJMcB Then if you have the outward feature right in the man, and the inward right in the woman, it is fitting that the children should enjoy divine things with them.
JT I think that is how the matter stands. We have a remarkable group of persons — seven in all, the Lord, the three disciples, the parents, and the child.
Ques Do you take the father and the mother as representing the paternal and maternal influences in the meeting?
JT Paternal and maternal influence as in the household is not brought into the assembly, but the care and influence of parents over their children is intended to prepare them for the assembly. If you had asked those parents later as to this event, you would have had a difficulty to impress upon them the need of Sunday schools or children’s meetings. I think they would furnish wise advice as to that. They would speak about their girl as she awoke and how she looked at the Lord, how she looked at Peter, at James, and at John. They watched her, you may be sure, and would note the effect of the presence of those persons upon [p. 333] her.
CAC So that maturity was before her, and to bring her to this ultimately would be in view.
JT God presents the full thought to the young mind in order to bring such an one to it.
WJH Would not the case of Samuel in the temple, living and growing there, confirm what you are saying? He was in the temple even before he knew the Lord personally.
JT Quite so. He was weaned before he was brought there. That is, he was not there under the influence of his mother. He was detached, but she kept an eye on him, and there is no evidence that that eye ever damaged him. You would always feel that she was looking after him, but he was in an environment where God was, which was also to be his objective; he was to be formed according to that. Hannah’s little coat which she brought every year would mean that she was assuming he was growing spiritually; she would have no other thought. This bears on what is seen in the girl here; but we might begin with the man. God had said of old that “there was no man” and “there was none to answer”, but the same chapter in Isaiah speaks prophetically about the Lord and how He came into manhood, how God opened His ear to hear as a learner, but it was to the end that He might speak a word to him that was weary, Isaiah 50: 4. So that manhood in God’s mind at the moment was to help others.
JS What is the thought in Luke 8: 28, “seeing Jesus, he cried out”? He saw a Man.
JT There must have been something there in Jesus that brought out that cry. No ordinary man would have brought it out. This man was, we may say, a man of the city, and had come out of it. The city is an ordered place, where there are schools and so forth, but no man could affect him save Jesus. I believe that is what Luke has in mind. It is very initial, but there is something going on in his soul, and he is affected by Jesus.
[p. 334] Ques Does it not indicate a subjective work of God in the soul that brings that cry to pass?
JT Quite so. Luke brings out that even such a man as this is affected by the presence of Jesus. It is the hardest kind of soil, and yet the presence of Jesus affects him.
HH Would those three marks, sitting and clothed and sensible, suggest a man suited for the assembly?
JT I thought we might see that, and how the chapter brings out that the hardest kind of man is affected by the presence of Jesus. There is no preaching; it is seeing Jesus, and that has to be in mind in ministry. It is what is of Christ that affects people. The fact even that we disturb people is good.
Ques Would there be a difference between the man sitting at the feet of Jesus in his right mind, and the state secured as the outcome of that? There may be a right mind, but not yet a good state generally. Then, is there the further thought of spiritual affections formed?
JT Of course, this man would grow in the knowledge of God, but all that you mention was in him in principle. The mind has a great part in the make-up of a man. Romans works this out, “So then I myself with the mind serve God’s law”, says the writer in chapter 7. It is a great matter that the mind is divinely affected and that it acts accordingly. Then the man is clothed. We are not told who clothed him. He had been naked, and it must have been his own sensibility that led to the clothing. Then he is sitting — he is restful. He must have been a very restless man, tossed about by evil inside, but now he is restful — a very important thing in all of us in the meeting. All this is typical of the effect of the work of God in a believer; it is formation.
JOS Why does the Lord ask the man his name?
JT To bring out who he is; one’s name suggests what one is — a man’s history.
EJMcB Coming to Jesus and finding the man [p. 335] would indicate an assembly element in a place. There may be more than one, but there is someone there who is an evidence of the work of Christ.
JT That is the idea. Worked out fully, it means an assembly in any town. The gospel presents Jesus “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved”, Acts 16: 31; but then when people come, what do they find? They find a man in this attitude. Thus the gospel brings in material for the assembly.
JS Would you say that 1 Corinthians shows that? It says, “For other foundation can no man lay besides that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ”, chapter 3: 11.
JT Yes. The Lord had intimated that He had much people in Corinth; but before the apostle began to preach he waited for Silas and Timotheus. When they came he was pressed because of the word, as if their presence afforded conditions of assembly character needed for the work. Those two men would be examples of what he preached. They had just been to Philippi and Thessalonica and Berea, and had had great opportunity of seeing the work of God. There are those who have no idea of concrete assembly testimony in gospel work, in the general thought it is simply what is said, but there is what is representative of the work of God, and that is what this man represents.
Ques Do you get the thought in Acts 3 where they saw the man who was healed?
JT That is right; the man was standing with them. He was not isolated; “he held Peter and John”.
Ques Would it hinder you from preaching the gospel if there is no assembly material in the place?
JT Well. I would not say you should not preach it, far otherwise, but it is a great matter to have the man. According to John 11, many believed on Jesus because of Lazarus, and the more men representing the work of God the better. This man had to witness about God by himself. We are not told of any converts, but he [p. 336] witnessed, and the remarkable thing is that he witnessed about Jesus. Jesus had told him to witness about God, but you must not think he was disobedient. He must have had some thought that Jesus was God; the gospel is what God has done through Jesus.
Ques Why does it say they were afraid?
JT I suppose they were softened, but it seems a fear that marks unbelief. There is no indication that they were converted, but certainly there was a great testimony there to the gracious power of God. They ought to have been subdued and thankful for such a change in the man. Such a result of the work of God before their eyes will make their responsibility in the day of judgment greater.
Rem There was really a great evidence of power there.
JT It is dreadful that they asked the Lord to leave, but still there was something there that caused fear. Evidently it was the man’s condition that caused the fear, but why should a man sitting, clothed and in his right mind cause fear? The true fear of God is always right, but it does not draw us away from Him. Peter, convicted, asks the Lord to depart from him, but he fell at His knees. Here they ask the Lord to leave the country.
HH Would you say all this is reached in soul history in relation to the assembly, and that it might take time for these points to be covered by any particular individual?
JT Yes. We do not come into things quickly nowadays, but the work of God is usually a finished thought. In all the cases of healing in the gospels there is completeness. There may be filling out needed, but there is completeness.
CAC I suppose the presence of the Spirit would necessarily bring the thought of completeness.
JT That is good. As God works in a person there is an indication of the full result. Whether in the gospels [p. 337] or the Acts the same thing appears; there is completeness in the work done.
Ques Would this be in view of the spread of the testimony? The man desired to be with Jesus, but He says, “Return to thine house and relate how great things God has done for thee”.
JT Quite so; there is completeness in what had been done in the man: the Lord trusts him. There is completeness in each — the man, the woman, and the child — and then there is completeness collectively. You would like to be in a meeting with those three — or rather the qualities they represent, in all present. It was the nucleus for the “large upper room”, and the “large upper room”, which only Luke speaks of, is to be filled with such people — intelligence in the brothers, and transparency in the sisters, and interest in the young people; the latter do not consider spiritual meetings irksome.
Ques Does the idea of “the works of God” being manifested, John 9, include each complete feature of the work of God?
JT Yes. Note that the works should be manifested. The next case is the woman. The passage says, “And the woman, seeing that she was not hid, came trembling, and falling down before him declared before all the people for what cause she had touched him, and how she was immediately healed”. You can see the completeness of that work. She saw that she could not continue to conceal things.
HH Hers was not a matter of conduct, but of state, was it not?
JT Quite so. Her disease was of the same duration as the girl’s age.
NKM What is the cause of this lack of transparency so frequently found with us?
JT That is the point now. Of course, here it is a sister, but we must not make out that want of transparency [p. 338] is confined to sisters. It is a question of that element, the element of unnecessary concealment of things that should be disclosed, for if the works of God are to be made manifest, it is a poor thing to be hiding them.
FI Do you think that efforts in regard of the young are often hindered because amongst the saints in their localities there is not this completeness and transparency?
JT If there is a spiritual state in a meeting the young people will be interested. As I observe, they are interested; normally coming out from spiritual parents, they are interested in what is spiritual. The book of Joshua contemplates that the children ask about the most spiritual things — the twelve stones at Gilgal, for instance.
FI Do you think we should be more concerned as to the material inside than what is outside, in regard of the increase of the assembly composition?
JT That is what this chapter would bring out as to quality, and especially in the subjective side of things, that we are transparent. She fell down before Him and acknowledged before all: He would bring that about. In the other instances the Lord did not require this. It is a remarkable thing that He is conscious that power had gone out of Him. It was a secret touch, and power had gone out of Him and He is not going to let that be hidden. It is a question of the works of God, that they should be manifested, and how great a thing it is to see a woman made transparent and ready to acknowledge things openly, and falling down suitably too, in the presence of the Lord and all present. Children of a household in which there is a person like that, would be affected. The Lord directs her to be of good courage and to go in peace. Her faith had healed her. It is a question of the body of Christ, that is to say, what has gone out of Him, “The body is of Christ”, Colossians 2: 17, that which reflects Him, and I cannot reflect Christ unless I am [p. 339] transparent. It is to bring about the body. The man is the intelligence, but the woman is the subjective side “we, being many, are ... one body”, 1 Corinthians 10: 17, and it is the effect of something going out of Christ.
EJMcB Then in order to get this truth of the body in activity, there is a great need of coming into contact with Christ and confessing Him. All the virtue in the body has come from the Head.
JT Yes. The Lord said, “power has gone out from me”. It is not here a question of His word or a command, but power silently going out of Him; thus in the healing there would be a result corresponding with Christ. Faith, owned by Him to be in her, and the relation of daughter amplify this.
Ques How would the concealment of things affect the proper working of the body?
JT It hinders the operation of the Spirit. She was concealing the work of God in her, this is often concealed and hampered by other things. What a great conception it is! — brothers and sisters coming together and sitting down as of the body, and there is not a thing that interferes with the working out of this great thought. How many things there are with us that interfere with the working out of the truth of the body! And the want of transparency is particularly to be judged.
WCG The truth of the body, and Christ as our life, are brought together in the same epistle, “The body is of Christ”, in Colossians 2: 17, and “Christ ... who is our life”, chapter 3: 4. So the body and life work out together. We can only come experimentally into life as healed of the issue.
JT Quite so. “The body is of Christ”; there is nothing in it morally that does not come out of Christ. That is how the truth in this respect works out in Romans, which is the epistle that helps us in it. From chapter 6 the great thought of life in the Spirit is in view, and chapter 7 comes in on the way. It is a remarkable [p. 340] analysis, and anyone that goes through it has learned what is within and how to allow the automatic conditions inside to operate. There are organs that operate without the person’s own direction, and chapter 7 helps us to make room for these, as purified, so that the Spirit of God can use them. Chapter 8 is that I am “not in flesh but in Spirit”, room being made for Him. That chapter opens out what the Spirit is to us, working in each, which implies the body. Romans does not say that we are body of Christ, but that we are “one body in Christ”, chapter 12: 5. It opens the way to the body, we reach it in the Spirit.
CAC Is not the thought that true inwardness is to come out, not the flesh, but the true spiritual inwardness, what we are in the inward man?
JT That is what I think we may see in Luke 8, that the whole matter is told out; the woman told out all the truth, and that is what Romans 7 would help us to do. Is that your thought?
CAC Yes, and in thinking of concealment we have often the thought of keeping from view what is of the flesh, but the important thing is that what is of God should come into view, that that should not be hidden. Is not that the real end of the transparency that you have in mind?
JT Exactly. I believe Romans 8 is just that, that all that is not of God is discerned and seen to be dealt with judicially in the death of Christ. The believer says, “I thank God, through Jesus Christ our Lord”. The mind is thus released: “I myself with the mind serve God’s law”, Romans 7: 25. That is a great point reached, and henceforth the Holy Spirit takes up the thread, and it is now what is of God in the christian. You see what he is; he stands up and speaks of God, and calls upon all that is within him to praise God. He is speaking of what is of God in him, and all that is now available in the service of God.
CAC [p. 341] We have not come to be in our right mind until we come to that.
JT That is good. When the mind is released and dominates, the Spirit takes up the thread, and Romans 8 is to bring out the liberty the believer has in the Spirit, and what there is for God in him. That makes room for Colossians, where we learn that all that is of the body comes out in Christ. Romans 8 speaks a good deal about the Spirit, because it is to instruct us about Him, and the Spirit makes much of Christ. The believer’s body is free now, so in chapter 12 he is to present it to God a living sacrifice. This woman’s body is now free. In Colossians, Christ is Head of the body, the assembly; and in Ephesians He is Head over all things to it. Matthew has in mind that the assembly is here in relation to government; there must be control. The necessity for it comes out when a brother trespasses against another brother. If that happens, the necessity for control arises at once. Is there any thing, or any person or persons in authority that we can refer to? Have things to remain unsettled indefinitely? Is that the state of things in christianity? Matthew 18 shows there is a way of adjustment according to God, and that there need be no delay.
CAC Then you think that judges and officers and priests are still available for such matters?
JT That is what Deuteronomy brings out. When anything arises, there are judges; let them come forth and act as directed. Then by the gracious help of God you will have a settlement according to His mind. As we move in this way there will be light as we go; the assembly will come into evidence, at least in principle, and thus there will be authority for action, involving discipline.
CAC The thought of gifts being set in the assembly will come in then.
JT Just so, ‘Governments’ are mentioned among the gifts, 1 Corinthians 12: 28. Such a gift is available [p. 342] universally amongst the saints. It has the same general bearing as the other gifts.
FI Why is it that if these are always present they do not act?
JT Well, why is it? We have evidence that they do not act, that difficulties go on and there is no settlement, no end reached. It is foreign to christianity.
CAC Gifts should not be local, they are available for any locality, and they would help in the carrying out of local responsibility.
JT You refer to the distinction made in 1 Corinthians 12 “God has set certain in the assembly”, that is, the specific gifts are set in the assembly, and therefore are available anywhere, wherever the need is. That is what the gifts of government are for. There will not be any need of them in heaven; they are needed here.
CAC Local responsibility in no way represents local independency.
JT Quite so; thus if there be a gift of government available, let it be used.
NKM What would be the characteristics of a gift of government?
JT A gift of government would be a dweller in Jerusalem; he would understand Jerusalem; for there government is understood. In the future, light and government will issue from the heavenly city. But of course, gift implies more, for it is given by God and involves power. “Tell it to the assembly” implies that in which divine government is vested — where discriminative judgment is exercised. How great a matter and how advantageous, that this exists, in the principle of it at least! The apostle complains as to the Corinthians; “there is not a wise person among you, ... able to decide between his brethren”, 1 Corinthians 6: 5.
Rem If there ought to have been wise persons at Corinth, we should look for them amongst ourselves.
JT It is impossible to work out the truth of the [p. 343] assembly in any locality without wisdom, but a gift of government is one who understands government and has power to apply it. So the assembly seen in Matthew 18 is possessed of such, and the knowledge of government is there.
JOS Would the activity of Titus in Crete be on the line of the exercise of the gift of government?
JT Quite so. The Cretans were “always liars”, and certainly they needed a man capable of rule; and elders were to be appointed by him.
GCS In Psalm 122 it says, “there are set thrones for judgment”, that is in Jerusalem.
JT That is the thought of government. If we make room for the assembly, I believe the Lord will adjust everything for us. This means that we make room for all that He has provided for its order and maintenance.
JOS Where what is presented in Matthew 18 is not bowed to, does the government of God come in? I was thinking of the end of the chapter.
JT You mean that judgment came on the man, who although forgiven, failed to forgive his fellow-bondman. God hates the lack of the spirit of forgiveness. Luke would shew that the assembly began with grace. Matthew stresses the thought of government, but he requires grace, for it is grace reigning through righteousness. Luke would stress that the assembly began with grace: “The Lord is indeed risen and has appeared to Simon”, the great sinner, Luke 24: 34. Well, that ought to impress you, if you have to do with a great sinner. If something serious happens amongst us, remember that the Lord appeared unto Simon. That is what they were saying in the first assembly meeting. Of course, Simon had wept bitterly because of his sin, and thus grace was reigning through righteousness in the assembly.
WW Sometimes grace is acted upon apart from [p. 344] righteousness.
JT Yes. Christ has made us a kingdom, and in that there must be righteousness, but it is grace reigning through righteousness through Jesus Christ our Lord.
CAC I was wondering whether the thought of grace would lie in the fact that it is with the priests, the sons of Levi, that every stroke and controversy is to be determined. Does that imply the judgment of things according to the rule of grace?
JT You mean the priests represent that? Quite so. The priests are not, as a class, connected with a locality. They represent those who are spiritual, and, as loving God, have regard for all His interests. In the types they are the custodians of the law and keep the charge of Jehovah. This was in the tabernacle. Their responsibility was universal. In Deuteronomy 21 the elders of the city nearest the slain man finally act as priests, interceding with Jehovah for Israel. They exhibit the spirit of priesthood and are thus, in principle, of the sons of Levi the priests, and like them have a universal outlook.
EJMcB Is the point rather stressed that in these matters it would be far better if it never got beyond the two, Matthew 18: 15? You go to your brother and if you possibly can you save him, and so it goes no further, but if it goes further others may be involved, and then it may go far enough to involve the assembly, which is serious.
JT The way, according to this instruction, is to confine as much as possible any evil that arises, but that does not mean that the persons to whom it is confined are absolute in their authority, because the assembly as a whole is always in view. Leaving an eruption with the nearest meeting is a matter of wisdom, depending on the facts; that is, are priestly conditions there? We must have the priests, and they are to “come near”. If they are in the nearest meeting, good and well, but if not, they must come from a greater distance. They cannot be limited by distance, their sphere of service being universal.
NKM In Psalm 82 it says, “God standeth in the assembly of God, he judgeth among the gods”, verse 1.
JT Quite so. It is striking that the Spirit of God can refer to the assembly here without any explanation “tell it to the assembly”. It is a great victory for heaven that there is such a company as that here on earth.
Ques How does the assembly cause her voice to be heard? It says, “if he will not listen to them, tell it to the assembly”.
JT Well, the facts are presented to the assembly by accredited witnesses. The law of the assembly requires this; as in any court, facts are to be told in a suitable way. Court rules are usually wisely rigid, and things entering into any case should be told to the assembly in a sober, unbiased way. What is stated must be known relevant facts, for a court will rule out any others. We must have known facts, and they are presented to the conscience of the assembly. Then, room being made for the Lord, you will have a true judgment, and it is bound in heaven.
Rem It is a place where true judgments are rendered and maintained.
JT It is, “Tell it to the assembly”; it is not the sanhedrim, but the assembly. The Lord had already spoken of “my assembly”, and as we have that and present the case properly to it, we have results according to God.
CAC That is also brought down to the “two or three?”
JT Yes; it will be noted that a change of conditions is suggested in verse 19, where the Lord says, “Again I say to you”. He had mentioned what related to the assembly normally as in verse 18, saying, “Whatsoever ye shall bind on the earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatsoever ye shall loose on the earth shall be loosed in heaven”; heaven ratifies what is done in the assembly. After that He says, “Again I say to you, that if two of you shall agree ...” that is, He brings the principle down to “two of you”, and then to the “two or three”, so that we have the means of settling matters of judicial action in our own times. Two “of you”, two of the assembly who, as of one mind, pray; and two or three “gathered together unto my name”, the Lord being “in the midst of them”: there is power to do things, to maintain the mind of God in remnant times.
CAC In connection with the two or the “two or three” prayer comes in, as if special dependence was called for in what might be called remnant conditions.
JT That is most important. “Two of you” would mean two of the assembly, “If two of you shall agree on the earth concerning any matter, whatsoever it may be that they shall ask, it shall come to them from my Father who is in the heavens”. God acts for us. It may be two sisters, God acts for them; but then, there is the coming together in His name, where His presence is felt, thus they can act for God; there is power. There is thus no reason why difficulties should be allowed to drag along and no result reached at all. It is a disgrace, a denial of these thoughts, if things are not settled.
Ques Does “if two of you shall agree” suggest normal assembly conditions?
JT The allusion in Matthew 18, as we have been saying, is to abnormal conditions, but nevertheless God acts for those who pray. What follows is that two or three gathered unto the Lord’s name have the Lord in the midst of them, and hence they can act — He supports them.