REDEMPTION CONNECTED WITH GOD'S PURPOSE
REDEMPTION CONNECTED WITH GOD’S PURPOSE
FER I suppose that the 12th and following verses are much more limited than verse 11.
DLH Redemption seems to be confined to the people of God and salvation is towards all.
FER I think so. It is the grace of God which brings salvation to all men hath appeared and in verse 12 it is teaching us, etc.
ED What do you say as to “A ransom for all” (1 Timothy 2: 6)?
FER He paid a price for all in death. He died for all, but at the same time in His death there was the idea of taking up a right. Redemption is the taking up of an encumbered right. You get the idea in Ephesians 1: 14 “to the redemption of the acquired possession”. It is purchased though not yet redeemed. The death of Christ is looked at in two ways — (1) as the declaration of God’s righteousness; (2) it is the basis of His purposes. Redemption connects itself with God’s purpose; it is impossible to controvert that.
JSO The manifestation of God’s nature is in death.
FER And that is towards all. Christ’s death is the foundation of divine counsels, like the sockets of the tabernacle, they were of silver. The house of God is really in redemption.
ED Does it only apply to the heavenly people?
FER I think not. It is applied to Israel in Exodus 15: 13. As to Revelation 5: 9, it is a very abstract idea, it does not look upon them as a resurrection company. It takes place before God takes up His dealings with the Jews. It is an activity of God which I do not think you can find in the Old Testament. The sealed book is [p. 159] opened and the interest of heaven is really in what is going on upon earth. The people in heaven were not singing about themselves, their interest is in what God is doing. When God begins to interfere redemption is the starting point, and it has other things in view, viz., to lead forth the people and guide them to the abode of His holiness. You get it all brought out in Romans 5.
DLH It connects itself with God’s house.
FER God takes up a right to lead them out of the dominion of the enemy and bring them to the abode of His holiness. It is very important for us because much is said about holiness today and without very much intelligence.
JSO You get it in principle in Colossians 1: 13: “Who has delivered us from the authority of darkness, etc”.
FER But then it at once adds (verse 14) “In whom we have redemption”. You get no picture of the gospel in Exodus — I cannot find any gospel in it.
WB Many have sought to preach it from Exodus.
FER It is as Mr. Darby said, they put it into it, but it is not a question of God’s approach to man in Exodus, nor do you get there the grace of God bringing salvation to all men. Exodus is that God takes up a people who are His inheritance, redeems them and brings them out in order to set up His dwelling place among them.
JSO It seemed good news to them that God intended to bring them out of the land of bondage to one of milk and honey.
FER But they are the people of purpose. They were the children of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and God saw fit to redeem them and bring them out, but that is not the gospel — you must come to the New Testament for that.
JMcK You don’t mean to say that there is no gospel in the Old Testament?
FER You get glad tidings presented to Israel, but the glad tidings were the spies. Israel’s guilt was that [p. 160] they did not believe the spies. The fact is this — our Bibles ought to be rebound and the New put before the Old Testament. I think all the dealings of God were there premonitory to His coming out to all men.
JMcK We ought to read the Old in the light of the New.
FER And you must to understand it. In the Old Testament the church comes in in type in Aaron and his sons and you get God’s dealings with the people of His purpose. The New brings in God’s approach to all men, and we should keep that very clear. We cannot be too earnest in maintaining the proper application of the gospel. You do get hints of the gospel in the Old Testament but they were prophetic.
JSO The Old can only be understood in the light of the New.
FER That is certain, and where people take their doctrine from the Old they are sure to make a mess of it.
WD Cannot we get doctrine from the types?
FER You learn a great deal from the types which could not be learned from the bare statements of facts. For instance the offering of Christ you would understand very little about from the statement of the fact, if you had not also the types. Redemption is not a universality but the redemption of a peculiar people zealous of good works. It shows what the saints are to be to Christ. It is all in connection with the possession of a peculiar people. It is not the same idea of universality that you get in, “For the grace of God which carries with it salvation for all men has appeared”, Christ’s death is the declaration of God’s righteousness and love and that refers to all men, but that is not the idea of redemption.
DLH In redemption you must bring in the thought of God’s purpose.
FER Yes, that God has an inheritance.
DLH Boaz is a good illustration. There was a near kinsman but he was not prepared to take up [p. 161] the responsibilities.
FER It is all a question of keeping the sovereignty and grace of God in their places instead of confounding the two. There are both things in scripture. I believe God’s heart, His nature, is towards all men — He would have all to be saved but, at the same time, I equally believe in the sovereignty of His purpose; He will have something for and according to Himself.
DLH We may say that salvation lies on one plane and redemption on another.
JSO The passover lamb would be the title to take the people out?
FER Yes, it met the liabilities so that God was free to take up the inheritance. God has taken up the liabilities but it is in order that He might take up His right and bring them into His holy habitation.
Ques Is Luke 15 limited to that?
FER I think it is, because it is not universality there but grace. The Shepherd seeks the sheep, the woman seeks the lost piece of silver. The great point for us is to distinguish things in our minds and then you can bring out that which will establish saints on the one hand and that which God presents to the sinner on the other, and that is very valuable.
WJ What is “Establish you, according to my glad tidings” (Romans 16: 25) — does that carry out your thought?
FER I think so. “Gospel” in scripture is a very wide term, and hence you find the mystery of the gospel.
HCA Do you connect the sovereignty of God with salvation?
FER The grace of God brings salvation to all men, you get the application of it according to divine purpose.
HCA Is not purpose limited to redemption?
FER Redemption is the basis of purpose, the carrying out of purpose is founded in redemption. Redemption as Mr. H. said lies on the other plane.
AEW In redemption you have to take account of sins?
FER Yes, “In whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins”. (Colossians 1: 14). In the grace of God and reconciliation, although it is a time of reckoning, God suspends imputation and that is based on the righteousness of the cross.
JSO You don’t mean by the forgiveness of sins, redemption?
FER If you take Exodus 15 as a guide it is, “Thou by thy mercy hast led forth the people that thou hast redeemed” (verse 13). The leading forth was another step, and then “Thou hast guided them by thy strength unto the abode of thy holiness”. They are first redeemed and then led forth. What God does on the ground of redemption is to lead forth His people to His house; that is we are brought in that way to the abode of His holiness.
JMcK At what moment in the history of Israel were they redeemed?
FER The moment the blood was there. It was the witness that their liabilities had been met and God had taken up the people, and then He led them forth and guided them to Himself, and that is what God does with us. You want to get to God’s holiness — you begin with righteousness to come to holiness according to God’s thoughts of it.
WB What about the expression ‘Safe but not saved’?
FER They were safe in Egypt but not led forth. They were not clear of the enemy’s power though they were right enough with God, but they had to be saved from the enemy’s power and dominion. They had to stand still and see the Lord’s salvation and the effect of it was they believed the Lord and His servant Moses.
WB What about “... saved by him from wrath”? (Romans 5: 9). Whose wrath?
FER God’s wrath, but you cannot go and tell people they are saved from wrath.
WB I thought you limited salvation to freedom from the enemy’s power.
FER It was in Israel’s case and that is a very good type.
DLH People are saved from the adverse power they were beneath.
FER They are saved from the whole dominion in which the power of evil works. It is to get them out of the world, the enemy’s territory. God is bent upon that and people do not see that the world is the dominion of Satan. Nothing in the world would convince me that a man who is making money in the world disliked it. God delivers from the power of the enemy and all the system of things in which his power works.
DLH With regard to remission of sins, what is the bearing of Acts 13: 38?
FER There is the general testimony of forgiveness according to the end of Luke’s gospel. It is the testimony on God’s part in Christ risen, His mind for man. In redemption you have the appropriation of it.
JSO Redemption supposes people are lost.
FER They are looked at more as in bondage. They were lost so far as they were concerned. So it was with the sheep and lost piece of silver had not the shepherd and the woman interfered.
JSO Does it suppose one with title over them?
FER That is the whole thing. The Israelites could not have got out of Egypt — they were lost so far as that was concerned.
ED The wrath in 1 Thessalonians 1: 10 is the wrath on this world. It is future and not eternal.
FER I think so. What we want is to see the purpose of redemption and the proper consequences of it. You are taken up for another according to eternal purpose — we want to come to holiness.
DLH What is the divine idea in the cry of the Philippian jailor?
FER He had the sense that everything was going from under his feet. That is the case with man when God [p. 164] begins to work. There is a sort of moral earthquake and everything on which he stands and is accustomed to build upon seems to fail him; then he looks about to know what to do to be saved. The wonderful thing is that God would bring us to the abode of His holiness. He will have holiness and not be content with righteousness. People who talk about holiness by faith simply confound holiness with righteousness. God brings us to the abode of His holiness and that leaves its mark on us.
JMcK If we preached verse 11, there would be more Philippian jailors.
FER Very likely, in a sense you have really to depend upon God for Philippian jailors on account of the hardness of man’s heart. It is so insensible to the heart of God. We have not an idea of the utter insensibility of man to anything of God. We have to take people up on the emptiness of mere profession and people who have been educated and brought up in a country like this are harder than anybody else. It is a great mistake to think the house of God has become the great house. The effect of that is to neutralise the conduct and course which God has taken, because He has brought us to the abode of His holiness. Man has built up a great system upon the testimony and that has become the great house but the house of God maintains its own proper character. I believe that to be extremely important; you do not want to lose the house of God in its own character. It is a spiritual house. Holiness is that you are in accord with God’s nature; you cannot touch holiness save as you are in the knowledge of divine love. Divine love is a holy love which is utterly intolerant to a breath of evil. Holiness is indispensable and God brings us to it that we may be partakers of His holiness. In the different conventions of today you never find holiness connected with God — it is what will promote personal holiness that they seek.
WD Personal holiness is a great matter.
FER But you never get it except from God and [p. 165] as you are affected by God.
ED It is not sinning really that is their idea.
FER Yes, “Do ye not know that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?” (1 Corinthians 3: 16). It is the temple that is holy.
ED You could not get the standard of holiness without the love.
FER No you could not. Mr. Darby has a fine expression ‘Thy holy love’ is found in more than one of his hymns. When it is a question of what christians are here as God’s testimony, the first point is righteousness; where it is our relation to God it is holiness. “Holy and blameless before him” (Ephesians 1: 4). The new man is created in righteousness and holiness of truth.
Ques What is yielding your members servants to righteousness and having fruit unto holiness?
FER Righteousness is the maintenance in integrity of every established relationship. If you are in that, walk in it, it leads to holiness. God is the only One who can establish any relationship because it must be established by adequate authority. Holiness is not a question of duty but being in accord with God’s nature. It is repellent of all evil.
JSO What is zealous of good works?
FER It is a continuation of the Lord Himself. He maintained good works in every way. He was the righteous One. Good works is faithfulness in every position and condition in which you are placed so as not to mar the testimony of the gospel. It is a good work to get an honest living, to do good and to communicate.
Ques What is redemption in 1 Corinthians 1: 30?
FER It is the right completely taken up — we have redemption in a way spiritually now, but the right applies to your body, not only your soul. God claims your bodies, hence we have to glorify Him in our bodies.