READINGS ON HEBREWS (9)
READINGS ON HEBREWS (9)
BTF Would you say we have new and profound things in this chapter?
AFM Yes, clearly so. The chapter seems to introduce us to “The things in the heavens”, of which the tabernacle was a pattern. In chapter 8 the new covenant is introduced; and there is what attaches to it. Connected with the old covenant there was the tabernacle service; so that with the new covenant you must have the counterpart of that also; hence what is introduced here is the thing itself, of which the tabernacle was a pattern. Chapter 10 takes up the service.
JEH The thing itself is Christianity, is it not?
AFM Yes, evidently. The tabernacle itself was a figurative representation of the things in the heavens; and our attention is called in this chapter, not to the holy place, but to the holy of holies, as being the extended sphere of priestly service.
CAM We have the new sanctuary in this chapter.
ANW And yet the first is not called the old here. In other words, the Spirit uses the word ‘old’ when He wants to show it passing away, but when He uses a type, He selects the word ‘first’.
CAM The reason I said that was on the principle that everything is new here. These chapters have each a specific subject, and my mind was on the word ‘sanctuary’, rather than on the word ‘new’.
AMcN Was it a “worldly sanctuary” because connected with an earthly people?
AFM I think the expression suggests a universal order of things of which Christ is the Centre. He brings to pass the display of God’s glory. The [p. 131] sanctuary represented the universe of God, as brought to pass by Christ.
BTF Would you say the ark was the centre? As such, it was a beautiful type of Christ.
AFM Yes. It was the centre of the old system, as Christ is the Centre of the new system; our brother called our attention to the new order, the old having passed away.
ANW The old is passed away and gone; but we gain in considering it as a type, of which the writer says it is not the time to speak in detail; as though there might be a proper time in which to speak of it in that way. One might ask why the censer comes before the ark, when the writer speaks of the “Holy of holies”; “having a golden censer and the ark of the covenant”.
AFM It would be the first thing met in going in; and is therefore spoken of before the ark of the covenant is described.
ANW Does it suggest a link between the holy place and the holiest?
BTF The fragrance of the golden altar would go into the holiest.
AFM We were speaking of the connection between the holiest and the holy place; no doubt the censer suggests the thought that man should be there in the fragrance of Christ.
ANW Does the censer rather suggest the Lord personally?
AFM I think it suggests that man formed after Christ should be there. The Ark of the covenant is Christ personally.
CAM The question was raised as to whether the altar of incense was intended to be inside the holiest originally in God’s thought.
AFM One would hardly think so, but in Exodus 30 the holy place and the holiest are brought close together; the altar of incense was to be put in front
[p. 132] of the vail, which is before the ark of the testimony in front of the mercy seat. The altar of incense suggests prayer, whereas that of which we have spoken suggests praise and worship. The great thought of our chapter is the place prepared for the worshipping company. Chapter 10 brings the company into view.
Rem We are “Blessed ... with all spiritual blessing in heavenly places in Christ”, Ephesians 1:3.
AFM That scripture suggests our blessings. This is rather the place prepared by Christ for God’s pleasure.
AJD “Entered ... into heaven itself”.
AFM Heaven itself is the great goal of the chapter: He is “before the face of God for us”.
ANW What you say in connection with the altar of incense is very good. It was four square and would not apply to the ark. The four-square character applies correctly to the golden altar, as having a universal aspect; whereas it would not suit the ark, it being rather what would be for God.
AP The golden censer is not mentioned as being in the holiest in Exodus.
AFM No, it is rather interesting, coming in, as it does, as an additional thought. The suggestion is of man being in the presence of God.
BTF It is beautifully fitting that the ark could not be there without the golden censer, as it were; the ark speaking of Christ, and the golden censer of the fragrance of Christ going up to God.
AFM Man in Christ before God as the companion of Christ for God’s pleasure. The point being what God is to get, because in the next chapter we are exhorted to draw near.
JS Man is now in the presence of God in all the sweet fragrance of Christ!
DMR The main thought here is to bring before us the idea that the high priest of old found no [p. 133] resting place there; it was only once a year he could enter. It says in verse 12 the Lord “has entered in once for all ... having found an eternal redemption”.
AFM The great idea of chapter 9 is that the sphere is opened up. We have to remember who God is. Think of the greatness and majesty of His Being; and now a way has been brought to pass right into His presence, and to abide there. The Lord abides there; He has gone in by His own blood. The high priest went in once a year, but could not abide there. This One has gone in abidingly, and has opened up the place for us.
WB-w The candlestick was in the holy place, what would you say about it?
AFM The writer says he could not then speak of these things in detail; but it does not mean that they could not be taken up some other time; the candlestick and the bread, I think, would suggest the means whereby we are enlightened and built up, with a view to our place the holiest.
WB-w The candlestick would suggest light; we could not go in without light from God.
BTF It would also suggest the place as saints we should occupy here as light-bearers; the twelve loaves, the beautiful order yet to be found in Israel before God here.
AFM Yes. The light of the candlestick would also be needful for the priest, so that his lips should keep knowledge and food for his support in service, whether manward, or as having in view the holiest of all.
HR Would the holiest of all be heaven itself?
AFM Yes, morally. It is a position for faith to take up and get away from sight. We are privileged to be occupied with heavenly things, and so to enter the holiest of all; it is the immediate presence of God, and that in principle is heaven.
[p. 134] HR What about the sanctuary in relation to that now?
CAM The term ‘sanctuary’ covers the holiest of all as well as the holy place — the word ‘sanctuary’ would mean both places.
AFM Yes. Although called separate tabernacles (verse 6); but the great point before us is not the holy place, but the holiest; every service will be rightly accomplished if we are consciously there.
DMR As leading up to these things, we are helped in 1 Peter 2:1 - 5, by the different steps found there, till we come to “A holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices”, 1 Peter 2:5.
AFM If we take these things out of type, and look at them simply, we see this: The blessed Lord is a glorified Man, having accomplished redemption; and is now in the presence of God for us, in all the fragrance of His Person. If one blessed Man is there, the place is opened up for millions of men. It is like John 14, “I go to prepare you a place”, John 14:2. Having gone in, the place is prepared; and now it is for us to enter, but the entering, I think, is found in chapter 10.
CAM You feel it is right that there should be advance. I suppose in John chapters 13 to 17 the disciples were nearer to the Lord than ever they were before.
DMR In chapter 10 it says, “Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water”, Hebrews 10:22.
ANW I was thinking of that verse; how much does it cover to “draw near”? I suppose it really covers the whole thing.
AFM I think the covenant is important in that connection; it is introduced in chapter 8, and is referred to in this chapter and the next; as if the writer would build up the saints by this ministry in [p. 135] the knowledge of God. God being known and responded to, we are able to draw near.
ANW What enables us to draw near is the knowledge of the Person. If we are occupied with the place we get material. “God is a Spirit; and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth”, John 4:24. It does not say where; it is a question of spiritual condition.
DMR In this chapter we have the Person of the Lord Himself, who was so great that He obtained eternal redemption.
AFM Having done it, He is now in the presence of God. The tabernacle of old was where God dwelt with a redeemed people; the Lord Jesus Christ has entered into heaven, now to appear before the face of God for us. He is the One in whom we approach to God, revealed in the covenant.
ANW There are Christians who point to so called places of worship, but Scripture does not encourage that. The woman in John 4 spoke of where her fathers worshipped; but the Lord said, “neither in this mountain, nor in Jerusalem”, John 4:21. It is whom, and how, we worship.
BTF Referring to the thing in view, which you mentioned, and how it is brought about, it says, “how much rather shall the blood of Christ, who by the eternal Spirit offered himself spotless to God, purify your conscience from dead works to worship the living God”. That is, you have a company there with purged consciences, and then you have the service; you would connect that service with praise “whose praise their service is”. So to have a company of worshippers, there is no shedding again of blood, as of old, for the blood is shed, and our position is fixed.
AFM In chapter 2 the Lord Jesus is seen as the Centre of a praising company: “In the midst of the assembly will I sing thy praises”, Hebrews 2:12; but it requires [p. 136] the education given in the chapters that follow, up to chapter 10, to qualify us to become a praising company.
CAM Every part of the entire system must be established by Christ.
AFM All will rest on redemption. One feels how limited believers are in their knowledge of this! The systems of men, in which they are found, do not allow for spiritual expansion. They evidently do not know that there is that which the tabernacle represented: it was the figurative representation of things in the heavens. It is possible for our spirits to travel, in the power of the Spirit, to enjoy companionship with Christ before God.
CAM So when they asked the Lord where He dwelt, He says, “Come and see”, John 1:39. I think the position today is very similar to that, it is not a material idea. It is “neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem”, John 4:21. That is what you would say to enquirers today; you cannot point to any particular place.
AJD It is to be spiritually understood. It is right to have a place in your mind, but it is to be spiritually apprehended.
AFM Yes, “before the face of God”. How favoured we are to have had this light vouchsafed to us! It can only be apprehended by our spirits.
ANW The Lord says you must do it “in spirit and in truth” John 4:23; it is not even optional, it is imperative.
AJD Heaven itself, referred to here, would be a matter of contrast, to divert their minds from what was on earth.
AFM And to show that what Moses set up was a pattern of the thing itself; so the writer brings forward the patterns to exemplify Christianity.
ANW Hence the value of his using the word ‘golden’, in connection with what was inside the holiest. I suppose the candlestick was golden, but he [p. 137] does not mention that. What fills his mind was the glory of what was inside.
JS Those are nice spiritual touches in regard to gold: “golden censer”, “ark of the covenant, covered round in every part with gold”, and “the golden pot”.
WB-w The golden pot in the ark reminds us of how He cares for us in the wilderness.
AFM Yes, the things in the ark represent, in part, the Lord’s service for us here.
ARS What does Aaron’s rod stand for? It had sprouted.
AFM You will remember that the question was raised in Numbers as to whose right it was to be priest; and after Korah and his company perished, the Lord gave instructions to Moses that each prince, representative of a tribe, should bring a rod to Moses twelve rods in all and Aaron’s rod was among them. The twelve rods were named, and laid up before the Lord; they were just dead rods. On the next day Moses beheld Aaron’s rod, that it budded, blossomed, and yielded almonds; so the Lord, by this, attested His choice; Numbers 17. It typifies the Lord as Priest in resurrection. He is declared and saluted by God as Priest in resurrection. The rod, too, sets forth His priestly service. The same rod was taken by Moses with Aaron, when the assembly had no water, suggesting that the priestly service of Christ gives refreshment to His people; Numbers 20: 7,8.
DMR There is a reference to the golden pot in Revelation 2.
ANW The thought there is of being sustained.
BTF The ark sets forth the death, as well as the glory, of Christ. The blood was on the mercy seat.
AFM In this chapter the ark is called the ark of the covenant, not of the testimony, suggesting that this blessed One has been into death to make known [p. 138] the love of God. As the ark of the covenant He makes the covenant effectual.
BTF In His body He carried out the will of God in all perfection, and the way He did it becomes food for us. This is typified by the manna in the golden pot.
AFM Yes. Viewing Him as the ark of covenant, we see One who will bring to pass all the pleasure of God. He came to do the will of God, the result of which will be a universe of God-loving, law-abiding people.
JS The thought here is not so much fruitfulness as life. The rods were cut off from the tree, and so were deprived of the source of life. Aaron’s rod yielding almonds suggests Christ as having life in Himself.
Rem The figure is sustained. The Lord was so different from any other man.
DMR The Lord said, “ye will not come to me that ye might have life” (John 5:40); life was in Himself.
AFM It was only One in whom life was who could grapple with death. What is prominent in this chapter is the blood; that of bulls and goats gave the people no standing before God; it could not purge the conscience; but the blood of Christ is so effectual that by it He has gone into the very presence of God. The tabernacle and all the vessels of service were sprinkled with blood, but the heavenly things with sacrifices better than these; the heavenly things are all purged by His blood. So that the whole universe of God will rest on redemption.
DMR It is effectual as having been done once for all.
CAM Everything about the sanctuary was purified by blood.
AFM In 1 Corinthians 15, the apostle brings in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ, as setting [p. 139] forth the gospel he preached; then he builds up everything on that. The resurrection, the reign and the eternal state; but all is based on the precious death of Christ.
BTF The words, “By his own blood”, appeal to our affections!
CAM So that everything was stamped, so to speak, by His own blood; and the priests themselves in their consecration were sprinkled by it.
AFM In the next chapter our hearts are said to be sprinkled, evidently by blood, and our bodies washed with pure water, referring to our consecration.
JEH Would you not say that the principles of the old covenant are found in Christianity? One is thinking of the tables being placed in the ark that would give a suggestion. It is a question of believers loving the law, as Christ loved it.
AFM We saw in chapter 8 that the law is to be given into Israel’s mind, and written upon their hearts, and all will know God. In principle, this is true for us Christians. According to 2 Corinthians 3 Christ is written “on fleshy tables of the heart”, (2 Corinthians 3:3) by new covenant ministry.
WB-w The system of sacrifices was unable to perfect the conscience of him that worshipped according to verse 9 of our chapter.
AFM Just so, but in verse 14 the blood of Christ purifies the conscience from dead works to worship the living God.
JEH A Jew’s conscience was never really satisfied; in spite of doing all that was enjoined.
AFM You would say because the sacrifice was not big enough; it did not effect anything; therefore it had to be repeated every year. Now it is “once for all”, and by the “one sacrifice”.
WB-w At the end of verse 12 it says, “having found an eternal redemption”.
ANW It is a remarkable thing, that the liabilities [p. 140] incurred under the first covenant, that were dealt with once a year, were actually dealt with in the death of Christ; the liabilities are taken over, not the inheritance. It is spoken of as “the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant”.
AFM It is that “the called might receive the promise of the eternal inheritance”; the inheritance is a matter of divine purpose; the thought of God is to bring us into the land, as well as to take us by redemption.
ANW The promise is coupled with the inheritance, why is that?
AFM Canaan is called “The land of promise” (Hebrews 11:9); it was promised to Abraham and his seed (Genesis 14), in pure grace on God’s part. This illustrates to us the heavenly inheritance, which is ours as promised, and to which we come in faith in chapter 12.
Rem It is a question of a Man dying instead of beasts.
ANW Verse 14 should be read in that connection — “how much rather shall the blood of the Christ, who by the eternal Spirit offered himself spotless to God, purify your conscience from dead works to worship the living God”. It is interesting to see how the three Persons of the Godhead are brought together in this verse.
JS A great point is to reach the living God.
ARS We get “dead works” and “the living God”.
AFM They are great contrasts. I suppose as we know the living God, our worship and our works become living; they spring from the knowledge of God, otherwise they are dead.
ARS Everything in connection with the system with which we are connected is living.
AJD All who form part of this system are marked by the life seen typically in Aaron’s rod.
AFM Yes. We take character from Him, being of the same stock: “Both he that sanctifies and those sanctified are all of one”, Hebrews 2:11.
CAM From verse 14 we see how entirely one is taken away from material things; we are purified from dead works to worship.
AFM Psalm 22 would, I think, fit in beautifully here. It presents the atoning work of Christ, of which this chapter speaks. He is forsaken of God, but is heard in resurrection; thereupon different circles are brought in; first the assembly, then Israel, and finally, all the ends of the earth turn to the Lord in the spirit of worship. It is the expansion of what is found in verse 14. The psalm shows that God dwells amid the responsive praises of His people.
Rem Our worship is often very feeble.
AFM The great point is to have power of abstraction, so that we leave out time and what is natural; to be in ecstasy, like the apostle said, in 2 Corinthians 5, “Beside ourselves ... to God”, 2 Corinthians 5:13. So that you are lost to time and sense in holy contemplation of Himself.
ANW Say a little more about verse 14: it does not say, to purify your conscience from sins, but from dead works. It is surprising how a little thing will hinder worship.
JEH What are dead works?
JS There is a good deal of ritual today; it is dead. We can get into a certain form of worship by using terms, with the absence of priestly state.
AFM We can be just as formal as the systems are, and do things very correctly, too.
JEH Emphasise that.
ANW One wonders how many living pulsations and movements of heart we have on the Lord’s day morning!
AJD Formalities amongst us would amount to dead works.
AFM Even worse than that, because we profess [p. 142] to have the light, and if our state does not correspond with it, we are the greatest hypocrites to be found!
JS So that with the light there is the maintaining of scriptural order.
ANW It is remarkable how plain spoken the apostle is to the Corinthians: “When ye come therefore together into one place, it is not to eat the Lord’s supper”, 1 Corinthians 11:20.
AFM Things do assume a certain form with us, but the point is that what is done should be done livingly. At the Lord’s supper we say much the same things week after week; the question is, where are we in our souls when we say them? If there is freshness with us, there will be no sameness about our meetings.
CAM It is not justice to the presence of divine Persons, if we think we have to say the same words.
ANW In 1 Corinthians 11 the apostle says the same words; we could not improve on them: “This is my body which is given for you”, 1 Corinthians 11:24.
CAM One was not thinking of bettering anything, but of the response of heart.
AFM The same words often take on a new character. Take our hymns, for example; as we advance spiritually, we see in them a meaning we never saw before.
AJD That depends upon our state of soul.
BTF Would you say the important point here is, the Spirit making things good in our souls, so that we should enter into the value and effectiveness of the blood of Christ; the Spirit applying that to the heart, we are set free, and form part of a living company?
AFM Yes. As our brother was remarking, the blood of Christ purifies the conscience from dead works, not sins here; we are thus brought into living touch with divine Persons, so that there should be [p. 143] no sameness, nor mere routine, but each week is begun in freshness.
JEH Speaking of the same words, the apostle in 1 Corinthians 11 presents the Supper in almost the same words as Luke does in his gospel. Matthew and Mark are a little different. Would that illustrate the idea of variety?
CAM You would look to Luke to support Paul and not to Matthew.
JEH There is variety in the way each writer presents the Lord’s supper.
AFM Matthew gives the Supper in rather a Jewish setting, the cup in that gospel is connected with the remission of sins. Each writer of the gospels had a specific end in view in writing, which accounts for their being different from each other.
JEH That may be so, but should there not be exercise as to more variety?
JC Should there not be exercise more in regard to what is internal, rather than what is external? I think our exercise should be to go on with what is of faith.
AFM We belong to a living system. If we are serving a living God, everything will have a living touch about it. There is no sameness about life; and if in touch with God there is with us the spontaneity of life.
JS Our weekly experience has its own exercise, and if consciously in the presence of God we would be marked by vitality.
WB-w We may frequent the holiest every day; and when we come together it would be expressed by us where we had been.
ANW With variety there would be harmony, all would be in spiritual tune as deriving from the one source.
AMcN To be in the good of these things we have to know the holiest. That I take to be the [p. 144] teaching of the second part of the chapter. The first tabernacle indicates God’s provision for us; the candlestick and shewbread, have to do with our responsible life here. The second part of the chapter, how we appear before God.
AFM In the holy place there were the candlestick, the table of shewbread and the golden altar for the light, support and prayers of the priests. What our chapter shows is, that the Holy of holies is now made manifest, Christ having entered in, once for all, by His own blood. The place is thus prepared for us. In the next chapter we are encouraged to draw near.
ANW A discordant sound may present variety, but it is not harmony. We are together intelligently and for edification, if we worship the living God; for every true movement of worship of Him would also be edifying to the saints.
AFM A good idea of variety is seen in the twenty four courses of the priests as divided by David in 1 Chronicles 24. It suggests that there is liberty among the saints for the exercise of what is priestly. In the twenty-four courses there would be no lack of diversity; and our liberty in service springs from the knowledge that we are kindred to Christ. As acquainted with the holiest we get adjusted in our souls in view of approach.
JS The result would be perfect harmony. God is the God of order. You wish to see order in the meeting.
AFM Yes. There were those who were under the direction of Asaph, Jeduthun, and Heman for song (1 Chronicles 25); so that everything was in order and harmony.
AP You do not confine worship to the morning meeting, do you?
AFM It is a great thing if there is spiritual power for worship in our own homes, but such a condition would spring from the morning meeting.
AP [p. 145] If you confine worship to our coming together, you are apt to make it a matter of time and place and so limit it. It says in John 4, “neither in this mountain nor yet at Jerusalem”, John 4:21 If the Lord is given His place amongst us we shall have order and variety as well.
AFM The Lord Jesus in offering Himself without spot to God has acquired the place of Leader of all praise to God.
ARS He leads the praises; as we follow Him everything will take on a new form, week by week.
JEH The order of Aaron, and his Sons with him, suggests the new order of Christ and the saints. How would that apply to our brother’s question as to worship?
AFM No doubt there is such a thing as individual worship. In the Old Testament Jacob might be cited as an instance of it (Hebrews 11:21); but collective worship is the great end to be reached in Christianity. John 4 speaks of the Father’s worshippers. The holiest is entered individually. I cannot go in for you or you for me, but once it is known there is evidence of it when we are together in assembly.
JS So that it is right to look for worship as we come together, and there is a certain order as to praise.
BTF Who are those who look for Him?
AFM It applies to us. We are regarded as looking for Him the second time without sin for salvation; but primarily it refers to the Jewish remnant. In our case the Spirit has come out, and made good to us the work of the One who has gone in.
BTF It is important to see that He appeared once to put away sin for every believer. Some might say, Since I am not looking for the Lord to come I cannot be caught up; and so make their salvation depend on that; whereas this appearing for salvation applies to every one who knows [p. 146] the Lord.
AMcN The Lord appeared once and the question of sin was settled, but the second time He appears there is no question outstanding; it is unto salvation.
ANW We need to bear in mind that Hebrews does not speak of our relationship with the Father, which is our full position.
CAM Worship is in a setting. You cannot really be very definite as to describing the compass of the word.
ANW You can only worship God in the measure in which you know Him.
AFM This is a very important chapter, on account of the place the new covenant has in it; we do not know anything about worshipping the Father, unless we know God as revealed.
ANW In chapter 10 it does not say, Let us go into the holiest, but “Let us draw near”, Hebrews 10:22.
AFM We are attracted there, and it is “through the veil, that is, his flesh”, Hebrews 10:20.
AMcN Chapter 10 tells us what is suitable as drawing near; “sprinkled as to our hearts from a wicked conscience, and washed as to our body with pure water”, Hebrews 10:22. Worship is better known than explained.
AFM The man in John 9 was led on, step by step, until he worshipped Jesus, as the Son of God. We qualify for worship individually, I think, before we worship collectively. The man referred to illustrates one who can draw near, having the heart sprinkled from an evil conscience, and the body washed with pure water.