THE LORD'S VISITATIONS TO A LOCALITY
THE LORD’S VISITATIONS TO A LOCALITY
JT I think if we are to understand the Lord’s movements in a spiritual way now, we must take account of His movements when here. It was stipulated in Peter’s address in the upper room among the brethren, that he who should fill the vacancy caused by Judas’ defection, and have part in the service of the assembly, should be one who had assembled with them during all the time in which the Lord came in and went out among them, from the baptism of John until He was received up. So that the Lord can be known thus. The manner of His coming in and going out suggests a knowledge of His movements; and I think that in the passage read we have an illustration of the Lord’s visitation to a locality. Now we have to distinguish between His coming to a locality (here He came to Bethany), and His coming to the saints. Coming to a locality would bring into evidence all that may be in it; the good as well as the bad; all must come under His eye. Here we have the good and the bad; the good in its most precious character in Mary, and the bad in Judas. It all came under His eye. The opening chapters of Revelation show that the Lord walks in the midst of the candlesticks. His movements there are in relation to the vessel of testimony, and we know that the good and the bad come into review. But here we have a definite coming to a locality. It does not say that He came to Mary and Martha and Lazarus; it says, “Jesus came to Bethany, where was the dead man Lazarus”.
Rem Is not that true at present?
JT I think it is, in a spiritual way, the Lord takes account of localities; so that the multiplication [p. 378] of assemblies in the Acts is a matter to be well noted. After chapter 5 you do not read much about the great numbers of persons or congregations, we have the number at Jerusalem, but after that, what is more noticeable is the number of assemblies. I think the Lord is concerned at the present time about the number of meetings, rather than the number in the meetings.
HD'AC — That indicates the great importance of a meeting, however small.
Ques Then suppose the meeting dies out, does that imply that the Lord is not in the locality?
JT Well, if a meeting dies out, there is no Lazarus there; the one who had been raised would not die out! He comes in, in connection with a man who does not die; that is, a risen man.
JM When a meeting dies out in a locality it shows that there is none there in the good of resurrection. Though there may be some who know the Lord Jesus as their Saviour, and know the forgiveness of sins.
JT That is right. I was noticing the passage read by our brother last night in Acts 16, “the assemblies therefore were confirmed in the faith, and increased in number every day”, Acts 16:5.
Rem A meeting might die from natural causes; for instance, if brethren die and the younger ones move away.
JT Well, that is so it is a sad reflection that there are no meetings, as far as we know, today, in the territory evangelised at the beginning, i.e., “from Jerusalem, and in a circuit round to Illyricum”, (Romans 15:19) the great theatre of Paul’s labours; the country where there were great assemblies in Paul’s day does not contain one now. We have to accept that.
JBC-l Would you not say that where an assembly or company of the saints had been, though they might have waned and died out, there may still [p. 379] be those who belong to the Lord in that locality; and though they may not be in the good of resurrection, the door would still be open for exercise in regard to what is suitable to the Lord? At Bethany it was what was specially for the Lord Himself.
JT Yes; a locality is of interest to the Lord if there is even one of His own there.
TMG He was at home at Bethany.
LM Did you ever hear an instance of a meeting which had died out being re-established in the light of resurrection by a few? I have heard it said that if once a meeting dies out, the Lord has done with that place or locality; but I could not altogether take that in, because as was said, there may be those who belong to the Lord there who may yet get into the light of resurrection and come together on that ground.
JT It is difficult to speak about the Lord being done with any locality, inasmuch as He has bought the field; He has rights in the field, the field is the area in which the treasure is; the field is the world, we are told; and as we have it in Psalm 113, “from the rising of the sun unto the going down of the same let Jehovah’s name be praised”, Psalm 113:3. I think that has an application to the little companies of the saints. “From the rising of the sun unto the going down”, Psalm 113:3.
JM We have witness among us of a meeting having been re-established in a brighter way than ever in its previous history.
LM It would be going a long way to say that there will never be anything again in a place; for as we have been hearing, the field is the Lord’s. His name is to be praised everywhere.
JT “From the rising of the sun unto the going down of the same”, Psalm 113:3. One thinks of the extent of the area in which His name shall be praised. The Lord has a wonderful circle or chain of interests. I think the word ‘assemblies’ points to what He would have; not in large congregations, but numerous companies.
Bern. In Malachi we read: “from the rising of the sun even unto its setting my name shall be great among the nations”, Malachi 1:11.
JT Well, the testimony of that goes on now, and that is what the Lord has in view. I think that the four gospels tend to produce all this. In the government of God, as in Matthew, it is universal. You can reckon on God’s government operating in every part of the earth; according to Ezekiel it is all under the control of a Man; and it is co-extensive with the circuit of the sun. Psalm 19 says that the sun “is as a bridegroom going forth from his chamber, he rejoiceth as a strong man to run the race. His going forth is from the end of the heavens, and his circuit unto the ends of it; and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof”, Psalm 19:5,6. That is, the influence of Christ for production is universal; the whole circuit comes under His influence, so that He has in this chain of interests, however small, that which yields praise; and hence the great point with the saints should be quality rather than quantity. If you have quantity with quality it is very well; but never quantity without quality, for the Lord is very particular as to quality, and I think Mary here has the quality which is of value.
RWG The more assemblies there are the more there is for the glory of the Lord. It looks on to the day when the glory of the Lord shall cover the earth.
JT Yes, and now you have the testimony of it. The bride says: “The voice of my beloved! Behold, he cometh leaping upon the mountains, skipping upon the hills”, Song of Songs 2:8. That suggests the agility with which the Lord moves today as in relation to His interests as risen and in heaven. He has got access here and He visits all the companies in His own way.
[p. 381] Ques Would the increase in the assemblies which is referred to, show that the saints have wakened up in their affections to the interests of Christ?
JT Yes; every assembly formed is a new spring, “He shall drink of the brook in the way”, Psalm 110:7; however small, the quality is there. I apprehend that Lazarus represents the dignity of the position. One of the most important things, I think, in regard to the assembly is dignity; that is what lifts us from the level of what is current. There is no dignity morally, attached to the most antiquated religion in the world; however much it may be embellished with names of fame, stained glass windows, choirs, organs, ceremonies of all kinds, there is no dignity attached to it. What God looks for is moral dignity.
ENH We should, like John the baptist, contemplate the Lord as He walked or moved; contemplate Him as presented in the gospel.
HD'AC Not only the assemblies increased, but the word of God increased.
JT They go together.
Ques Would you say a word on the constitution of the assembly?
JT Well, I think Lazarus represents the dignity of it, and it covers a great deal, apart altogether from the evil of certain things or teaching, what is current and accepted in this world is undignified.
TMG The great dignity that we have is that we are sons.
JT Quite so; and resurrection lifts you out of the plane of this world. “Whom he raised” (John 12:9) — it is the principle of raising. Colossians takes us above the plane or level of ordinary religion. The door is fast closed against it in Colossians. Philosophy and ceremonialism are rigidly excluded there.
HH Not only is Lazarus here as a risen man, but Mary and Martha, the other people who are mentioned here, had travelled through death in their souls [p. 382] in chapter 11. So it was really a resurrection company.
JT Well, I think so. And as I have been remarking, aside from the evil of the things, the tendency is to drop into what passes muster in this world. What is accepted as the religion of this world is undignified.
JBC-l I think that is borne out by the way in which the Spirit of God presents it here. Lazarus was “the dead man ... whom Jesus raised” John 12:1; but the truth of his death really remained with him.
JT Quite so. It is really a “dead Lazarus” as regards things outside.
ENH That is what the world hates; consequently they wanted not only to put Christ to death, but Lazarus also, to get rid of them.
JT So what Colossians is to us, is hypothetical. “If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth, for ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God”, Colossians 3:1 - 3. One is, in that way, unresponsive to the attractions of the things around.
TMG Dead, really, in order to live.
EM In connection with an accredited religion, might not the best form of things even amongst us, turn to that; such as, using well known expressions, sentiments, and so on.
JT I have often thought of the most precious things being discredited; Judas carried out into the world the most precious thoughts; he had been intimately related to Christ; the expression of affection which he gave in the arresting of the Lord shows that it was something customary. He had had access to the Lord’s inmost thoughts — things most precious; well, all these were carried out. John says: “They went out from us”, 1 John 2:19. They would have carried out the things that were accredited and [p. 383] precious to the circle within, and desecrated them outside. Rome is the full-blown expression of that. She has desecrated the most precious things and connected them with heathenish practices. The same in measure may be true of any of us, in taking up spiritual expressions, hymns, and so on, in a fleshly way.
EM What is the difference between that and strange fire?
JT Strange fire is what is of the flesh brought in and presented to God; but there is what is taken outside, and pagan customs are connected with the most precious things of Christianity.
Rem A dead man, like Lazarus, would not bring in strange fire.
JT No, he would not; the dead man here is that he is not in touch with what is outside. As regards his position inside he is dignified, and he makes the position dignified; it says he “sat at the table with him”, John 12:2.
JM It should be an exercise with us as to the Lord’s movements in a locality, that we may be with Him.
JT Well, I think it is a very serious thing that He does come to localities.
JBC-l I am much interested in what you say as to His coming. It is His own movement. What is your thought in connection with these “six days” John 12:1? It was before this time the Lord came to Bethany. Would it indicate how the Lord considers the conditions and exercises of the saints, and how he would always come at the opportune moment for development or enlargement, even if it be by the process of sorrow and reduction? His coming is never too soon or too late.
JT John has a way of measuring or counting. The Lord is wonderfully calculating; He remained two days where He was when He heard Lazarus was sick. So here He comes six days before the passover.
[p. 384] He knew what Mary had; she was really looking on to the end of the six days.
JBC-l What she had was measured, and treasured as a family possession. This ointment that was expended on the Lord was precious; its current price was well known to Judas, he said it could have been sold for three hundred pence. But it was held in right relation to the Lord Jesus.
JT The fact that it was measured indicates intelligent deliberation in procuring it. But in coming into the locality, He is thinking of the dignity and love that He knew were there. But then there also comes to light the attitude of Judas.
Ques What is your thought in the Lord’s coming to a locality? Does He come to find those who know Him?
JT Well, it would involve that; all the saints in it are taken account of, and the conditions in it too. We were noticing on Monday that elders are ordained for cities. It is remarkable that it does not say they were ordained for the assemblies in the cities, but over cities. There is only one assembly in a city, and conditions in each meeting come within the range of all in the city. An elder has jurisdiction in the city; and the more he is with God the more he is concerned about the things of God in the city.
Ques How would that work out in a city where there were more gatherings than one?
JT It works out in the elders coming together.
ENH From all the meetings?
JT Yes; the elders are for the city; the apostles and elders, we are told, came together to consider the matter.
PSP In view of bringing it before the assembly?
JT Yes.
ENH I suppose there must have been a good many meetings in [p. 385] Jerusalem.
JT Yes, but there is only one assembly; Paul went up and saluted it.
JM We want to help as to the working out of things in regard to the different meetings in one locality.
JT Well, elders were appointed for the cities; they appointed elders for every city; Titus 1:5.
JM There is no such thing as independency of action in any one company. The thought of the Lord is the assembly in the city, embracing all that are His.
JT That is right, and the elder has jurisdiction in the entire city; I am only speaking of the matter now in the principle of it, I am not saying anyone is an elder officially. A meeting of the elders in Jerusalem would mean a meeting of all the elders of the meetings in Jerusalem. That is quite obvious.
HH How would you apply that in the face of the ruin?
JT Well, it is a question of having the light; the great thing is to have the light that governs any position. If it be a question of the administration of the assembly locally, if there is more than one company, then the principle of eldership extends over them all. It is the thought of rule, the elder that rules well shall be worthy of double honour. If he teaches, all the better; but the principle thought is rule, and, with God, rule is very largely influence.
JP Are there no elders needed for the country?
JT The thing is to get hold of what the scripture says. Elders were appointed in cities, according to Scripture, and Scripture is wise, no doubt, in anticipating the very things that we are speaking of. Of course an assembly in the country would need the care of elders also. All the responsibility of rule in an elder is generally in the city, not only in his own meeting, but in the city. So that if the elders come together, they come together in relation to what is in the [p. 386] city.
SL In a case of discipline would not that apply to the elders of the whole city?
JT It certainly would. In the case of the deliberation attached to the enquiry, all the elders should have part in that. And when one speaks of elders, it is not that there are any official ones now; still there are those recognised as having experience and moral weight. Responsibility, of course, attaches to all.
Ques Can we appoint elders today?
JT You know you cannot; you never heard of them being appointed amongst those seeking to walk in the truth.
JM It is more a matter of accepting responsibility in connection with administration in the house of God.
JT It is just a question of doing the work; but of course we have to recognise those with experience.
Ques How do you distinguish elders now?
JT An elder would have experience and moral weight; his house is mentioned, you observe the way he rules it, his children are in subjection, and so forth.
HD'AC It is a question of experience. There ought to be no difficulty in distinguishing between an elder and a junior. The Lord knows how to make it evident.
ENH The saints distinguish them by their quality and behaviour, and they give them the place voluntarily.
EH As to what you said about the city and enquiry being made, say in a case of discipline, although the enquiry is made by all, would it not be order that it would begin with the gathering in which the thing originated?
JT I think that is wise. It is a question of [p. 387] confidence. It would be a poor thing for one local company to say: ‘It is our right’. One great principle of the assembly is confidence.
Rem It is not that one of the local companies decides a matter, and then passes their decision on to the other meetings that they may endorse it. The entire assembly in a city would decide the thing, though it may be wrought out in the individual company in which the matter originated. The assembly as a whole receives or withdraws from, but it is the assembly in the light of what it is to Christ.
JT That is right. The details work out if we have the Lord governing the meeting — if there is confidence. The difficulty often is that a local company, perhaps, asserts a right to decide. I am speaking from experience, whereas it is a question of confidence and wisdom as to what is most convenient and effective. But the general principle is that the elders in the city come together, and deliberation ought to be on that line: ratification is another matter; ratification is by the assembly, that is, the whole assembly.
HH Would you apply that to reception, as well as to discipline?
JT Yes, I would.
TMG There are local responsibility and fellowship. Fellowship exists with several meetings in a city, and each meeting has its local responsibility, but then there is only one assembly in the city.
JT Exactly. The deliberation is in the light of the one assembly, the enquiry is in that light, and the ratification. The assembly only can do this, the thing is not established except in the assembly.
Ques How do we know when the Lord visits a locality?
JT Light comes in, He will not be silent about things that exist if they are not right; He will give you the sense of approval if they are right. He talks [p. 388] about what is right first. The idea of the Lord’s coming in is very general; I am afraid it has been circumscribed by us to the thought of the morning meeting, whereas the idea is very general.
Ques Would His coming be considered special in connection with the morning meeting?
JT His coming is very general; He has got his own rights. That is the point. He does come when the saints are together, it is His own right. Samuel had his circuit, he made it every year. He “judged Israel all the days of his life” (1 Samuel 7:15) and he judged it by the means of a circuit, that is, there were habitual visits to certain places. I refer to that as a principle. The Lord reserves the right to move about.
TMG He can go when He desires to do so.
JT He has the right to do that, and it is a serious matter for us. Now when Samuel went to Bethlehem to anoint David, it was a serious matter; the inhabitants were greatly moved; they did not know what he had come for, but still they had the exercise. And so it is a serious thing when the Lord comes now.
Rem You directed attention some time ago to the fact that He came into the house and looked around, and cleared out what was unsuitable.
JT That is very important to note; He first comes in and looks around, and then comes back the next morning with a scourge and drives out the money-changers and the dove-sellers, “and suffered not that any one should carry any package through the temple” (Mark 11:16), meaning, I apprehend, some secret understanding, and that He will not have — things are to be open in the company. Then, that accomplished, the next time He comes, He is ready to answer questions. That is the way Mark puts it; so that everything is settled, that may be settled.
Ques Might the Lord indicate that by a servant, or a testimony raised up?
[p. 389] JT The Lord has His own way of making Himself felt. The serious matter is that He does it. Then six days before the passover He came to Bethany, where was the dead (man) Lazarus. One regrets that we have to turn aside to details (although this is necessary), because the thing is, to get the largeness, the dignity of the position that the Lord expects; He looks for dignity; if you are brought to the level of current religious practices around, He has got nothing in that. He looks for dignity; Solomon’s temple was to be “exceeding magnifical” 1 Chronicles 22:5. It was to be in keeping with the Person that was to come in there, hence the dignity. Lazarus is raised; so that when you come to John 20 it is more than that, it is the saints, not the locality: He is ascending, and the saints are in the light of the ascension. He comes to them, and now they have the doors closed, that is the position. It is a further thought. There is a sense of the preciousness of the light, and what is becoming to the assembly, the dignity that, is there.
Rem They are dignified by the One who is with them.
JT The point here is, the persons who sat there were dignified as being risen. Of course it is a wonderful thing to sit at table with Him, but then the Lord will have suitable persons there. If the king were to come to Belfast, he would come in connection with his own links here; he would connect himself with his own representative, and his representative is supposed to be dignified. Now I think Lazarus is the link in Bethany; the Lord had raised him from the dead, it was His own work. The representative of the king here has been dignified; in principle his dignity is from the king. The idea of a “peer” is that he is a suitable companion for the king. Lazarus was one of them; he was a peer, so to speak.
Rem The Lord would impress upon us that we [p. 390] should not degrade our position by linking it on with anything in the world. There is no moral glory attached to anything in the world.
JT Now, if the king were to come here to the house of his representative, he would sit at the head of the table. That is a principle with royalty; the king is head no matter where he is; he has made the man with whom he is staying, so to speak. That is the principle. So that it is the dead Lazarus who is there, but whom He raised from the dead, that is, he is His own work; now Lazarus sits at table with the Lord — not He with Lazarus.
TMG The dead Lazarus has done with the world, and the risen Lazarus is one who sups with the Lord, and that is the privilege of the saints in the assembly.
JT My concern should be, am I dignified enough? It is a wonderful thing that the Lord should come to a locality in this way.
Rem Mary’s action was a very dignified one.
JT It was a very suitable action on such an occasion.
LM Would you say there is dignity in Lazarus, and affection in Mary?
JT Yes; Mary had something, and she was quite equal to the occasion. Think of being able to fill the house with what is delightful to Christ, and to everybody there.
Ques Then is it your thought that in risen conditions in John 12 the Lord is free to move about, but in John 20 we get a higher thought; that is, ascending conditions?
JT Well, He comes in, having sent the message so that those inside would be in keeping with the visit. So that it is not now, “where Lazarus was whom he raised”, but where the disciples were notice the word ‘assembly’ is not used there; it is the persons in chapter 20. “Where the disciples were”, (John 20:19) John says. It is the evening of the day, but it was the “first day of the week”, John 20:19; that is, they would have in that enclosure all the precious light of that day — all that was gathered up would be there in the evening. And He came in, in the light of that.
Rem The position at Bethany answered to the height of His sanctuary.
JT I think in chapter 20 you are on the line of elevation, in Ephesians it is “raised us up together, and has made us sit down together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus”, Ephesians 2:6.
Rem Service is mentioned here in connection with the Supper; you serve in the Spirit.
JT Martha’s service was quite in order here. This chapter 12 may be connected with Colossians, and chapter 20 with Ephesians — raised up together, and made to sit down together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus; Ephesians 2:6.
Ques Does Colossians end with quickening?
JT Colossians is, risen by the faith of the operation of God, and then we are quickened that we should hold the position rightly. In Ephesians we are quickened first and then elevated, because one has to be quickened to be in suitable condition for it.
TMG Made to live.
JBC-l In regard to the Lord’s coining to a locality — I think Paul’s epistle to the Corinthians, in the quality of its ministry and its bearing upon their state, had in view the producing of conditions suitable to the Lord coining to them; it commences with what relates to peaceful undisturbed communion, in order to secure that the whole house should be filled with the odour of the ointment. Paul, bringing in the love of Christ and the Supper, connects these with the disposition of the Lord on high, so that He might have his proper place with them.
Rem “He shall drink of the brook in the way”, Psalm 110:7.
JT That, I think, speaks of what He would [p. 392] have from the different companies. The thing is, to have the quality that the Lord would connect Himself with.
Ques What is the force of that passage which has been quoted from Psalm 110?
JT That Psalm is in connection with what is provisional; in the opening of the Psalm He is set down on Jehovah’s throne, until He makes His enemies His footstool; the verse quoted is at the end of the Psalm. We are really in a provisional state of things today, and I think what indicates that, is, that in the endings of the gospels the Lord is not seen sitting, He is seen standing, meaning that there is something beyond. The incident at Emmaus may seem an exception, but it was only to get them to Jerusalem. The present is a provisional state of things; He is sitting on the Father’s throne, and He has “the brook in the way”, Psalm 110:7. He is going on to something; so you want the brook to be fresh and clean; it is what He gets now.
LM So that there would be present refreshment for the Lord in His movements.
JT You will find in Song of Songs that progress is made from the outset in intelligence and affection. “Let my beloved come into his garden, and eat its precious fruits”, Song of Songs 4:16. Well, then He says, “I am come into my garden, my sister, my spouse: I have gathered my myrrh with my spice”, Song of Songs 5:1. You see the thing was there, and it was His. If He planted the garden it was for His pleasure. Then He goes on to say, “I have eaten my honeycomb with my honey”, Song of Songs 5:1. That was what He found — there were the myrrh and spices, the evidence of suffering love what marked Himself; and then there were the honey, and the honeycomb, the wine and the milk. I think it all refers to the mutual state of things in affection which He would have amongst us. It is what He is entitled to in the assembly.
[p. 393] Ques You connect that with drinking of the brook in the way? Through all this period He would have that.
JT Well, I think it is what He is entitled to.
Ques Do you think that would have its bearing now, and not merely when He was here?
JT I think so, because I think of Him on the Father’s throne now.
TMG The Lord Himself gets refreshment.
JT Then, later in the Song of Songs, the bride was the speaker, she can tell where He is. It says, “Whither is thy beloved gone? ... My beloved is gone down into his garden, to the beds of spices, to feed in the gardens, and to gather lilies”, Song of Songs 6:1,2.
Ques The gardens would be local assemblies?
JT I think there would be the general thought of the assembly and the subdivisions.
Ques Would the Lord visit a locality without the knowledge of the assembly?
JT Well, He says to Laodicea, “Behold, I stand at the door, and am knocking”, Revelation 3:20. If you open to Him He will come in and sup with you; but in order that you might sup with Him. If you do not open the door, He cannot come in.
FI Have you got the thought of quality in chapter 11 where the village is described as that of Mary and Martha?
JT Well, I think so; the village became distinguished because these two sisters lived there; but now they have a risen man. He came to Bethany where Lazarus was; they have a risen man. There is dignity and power connected with it now.
JBC-l The necessity of making Him a supper seems to come home to them in the Lord’s presence. “There therefore they made him a supper” (John 12:2) — as if the Lord’s presence directed the thoughts of their hearts. There was a real move in their hearts, in regard to what was most suitable for the Lord Himself.
[p. 394] Ques Do you think that the features indicated by these three persons would come out in any one person, and that they should mark us and come out at different times?
JT Yes.
HH Would they come out in the same saint at different times?
JT Yes, very likely. One served, one sat, one anointed. A Christian will not serve correctly if he is not dignified.