READINGS AND ADDRESSES AT INDIANAPOLIS, 1924 - READING (5)
READINGS AND ADDRESSES AT INDIANAPOLIS, [p. 269] 1924 - READING (5)
Nehemiah 8; Ephesians 3:14 - 21
JT There is a connection between the feast of tabernacles and the passage in Ephesians; that was why I thought they would fit in with what we have been having. Does that accord with your mind?
GWW Yes. We understand a little about the other feasts but we are all backward as to the feast of tabernacles. What is the moral significance?
JT You will observe that the thing was discovered: “They found written ... that the children of Israel should dwell in booths”. It was on the second day of the “conference” in Nehemiah’s time. The first day was marked by the reading of the law to all the people; but it says (verse 13), “On the second day were gathered together the chief of the fathers of all the people, the priests and the Levites, unto Ezra the scribe even to understand the words of the law. And they found written in the law which the Lord had commanded by Moses, that the children of Israel should dwell in booths in the feast of the seventh month”. The first day was marked by Ezra reading from the law, and he and the Levites caused all the people to understand the sense of the law. It says (verse 12), “For they had understood the words that were declared to them”. I think the feast of tabernacles is not reached because the saints do not go in fully for what is in the Scriptures. It says “To gain wisdom as to the words of the law”. Generally speaking, all inquiries into the Word do not go beyond the first day. The first day in this chapter is a very important day, but the second day goes further.
AFM The class is limited in the second day.
[p. 270] It is not general, it is special, ones who were more interested.
JT We have a principle in the Word, that when you get certain records given, then other things are mentioned which are to be found in other books. “Is not this written in the book of Jasher”, (Joshua 10:13) for instance, and “They are written in the book of Samuel the seer and in the book of Nathan the prophet, and in the book of Gad the seer”, 1 Chronicles 29:29. If one is really interested to possess the things fully, he would look up these books. Most of us are content with what we may hear, and so the references are not followed up. There is great slothfulness as to the things of God. Wisdom and knowledge have to be sought for as hidden treasures; Proverbs 2:4,5. Timothy had “followed up” the teachings of Paul.
GWW There is often contentment with what is on the surface whereas we should dig for things.
JT The Lord says, “Ask and it shall be given you; seek and ye shall find; knock and it shall be opened unto you”, Matthew 7:7. This second day was on the principle of seeking and finding, so that it says, “They found written in the law which Jehovah had commanded through Moses that the children of Israel should dwell in booths”, and so on.
GWW The first day became a sort of incitement to their souls to get a deeper insight into the Scriptures.
JT In these particular persons. The meeting was much smaller than on the first day. It says: “All the people gathered themselves together as one man into the street”, and so on. That is the first day.
GWW In a large company the tendency is to settle down in the things that pertain to ourselves, whereas in the “Chief of the fathers” are found those who would go on to gratify the heart of God and get everything. Do you connect that with the thought of seeking [p. 271] wisdom?
JT There is a great deal that all can take account of, but “the hidden wisdom” (1 Corinthians 2:7) is beyond most. Paul spoke this among the “perfect”, 1 Corinthians 2:6.
AFM Would that answer to what you were speaking of a little while ago? The early brethren had the epistle to the Ephesians well read, and were well versed in prophecy, involving the full mind of God, whether as regards the assembly or Israel.
JT Yes, so that the wisdom of God in mystery is in Ephesians. There God is said to have made the riches of His grace “abound towards us in all wisdom and intelligence”, Ephesians 1:8.
Rem You might say why the feast of tabernacles is not mentioned in Ezra.
JT It is mentioned in Ezra with other feasts and observances. Here it is discovered by some who searched the Scriptures.
GWW What is the import for us at the present time of this second day? There is evidently a much fuller and deeper interest in all the thoughts of God in those who gathered on that day.
JT Well, it corresponds with brethren coming together now to look into the word of God; particularly where they are really set for entering into the full mind of God. We do not want to miss anything, and there is, therefore, the following up of things. Paul says to Timothy, “Occupy thyself with these things” (1 Timothy 4:15) — the following up is what is necessary. You may get ministry, spoken and written, but then at best, ministry is but suggestive. One has to follow things up to get “The wisdom of God in a mystery”, 1 Corinthians 2:7 You have to follow things up and see them in Christ; that is when the truth really becomes vital in the soul. Otherwise it is simply an enlightenment of the mind, which the mind can easily lose. Then we have got to habituate ourselves to seeing that what is suggested to us in ministry is seen livingly in [p. 272] Christ.
HG The second day here is like searching the Scriptures daily (see verse 18).
GWW Do you not think we have to be on our guard against mere enlightenment without the vitality of the truth in the soul? Things are not living until they are connected with Christ.
JT There is this difference to be observed: one sits down as a listener to take in things said by others, and then there are those that sit down as part of the temple. If I sit down as part of the temple, I contribute to what is coming out. Persons who thus regard themselves in the light of the temple in a meeting aid greatly in the bringing out of the truth. In the temple the light of God shines, and if there is anything that is under consideration, the exercise is to see how it stands in relation to Christ. Then I get it in its true bearing.
WCR In being sympathetic you contribute to the ministry, and encourage the one that is speaking.
GWW The purpose of ministry is to bring before the souls of saints something that is in the mind of God as revealed in Christ; it is a great thing to have this in view in coming together as we are now.
JT On the first day the people of God were all assembled as one man. There was unity amongst them, and Ezra read aloud from the pulpit of wood, and then there was the “Amen” and worship of the saints. It is one thing to give an address or to give out something that the Lord may have given you, but it is another thing for the saints to sit down together as in the temple as having the Holy Spirit, to look at things in their relation to Christ. It is like inquiring in the temple. There you see things in their fulness, not only as they affect you but as related to Christ. I understand that the epistles in the New Testament are of the nature of help for souls. They present the truth “in part”, but the gospels are not written from that point of view. The gospels [p. 273] present the truth as it stands in relation to Christ. The bearing of the gospels is necessarily wider, it is universal. The teaching of the gospels embraces every family; the epistles are concerned with the saints who form the assembly.
AFM On the second day, these exercised ones seem to come to Ezra the scribe, and would profit by his wisdom. There would be a parallel between that and what we have in Ephesus; Acts 19. First, the word went out in the synagogue, and then Paul separated the disciples, and we find him “in the school of Tyrannus” (Acts 19:19) for two whole years so that all in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus.
JT They must have had wonderful times in that schoolhouse in Ephesus!
GWW Referring to the thought as to the epistles and the gospels, do you think that when we learn what the Spirit presents in the epistles we can really turn back and see how all shone in Christ There is nothing there but what was in living display in Christ as seen in the gospels.
JT The saints are led on to the gospels as in the light of the temple. You get things in relation to Christ. Christ is the truth, and to have the truth rightly we must see it in Him. This passage in Ephesians leads us into the gospels. You come to the highest point in the epistles in these verses. The apostle has ceased teaching and he bows his knees. It is not now what he can unfold, but what God can do for us; he tells what he desires God to do for us, and I think that the length, depth, breadth and height would correspond with the gospels.
AFM The fulness of things as seen in Christ.
JT The epistles are “in part”. The truth is broken up for us according to our state. As has been remarked at Corinth he could not speak to them as perfect, but he still spoke to them, but as babes in [p. 274] Christ. They were babes, but in Christ, so he could speak to them.
John says, “I write to you, little children”, 1 John 2:12. He wrote more to the babes than to the young men or the fathers. But then Paul said he could not speak to them as unto perfect men. The perfect man has his five senses exercised. He knows how to use every sense he has got. By reason of use, he has his senses exercised for the discerning of good and evil. But every grade is taken account of in the epistles. The truth is broken up according to the state of the saints, to the end that we may “all arrive at the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, at the full-grown man”, Ephesians 4:13.
WB-s I take it the “Chief of the fathers” represent men of intelligence, with desires for divine things. They would correspond with those who are “perfect” in the New Testament.
JT Yes, quite. They found the truth of the feast of tabernacles. The enquiry led to this and it became the occasion of “very great gladness”.
HG Ezra had supports on the first day, six on the right hand and seven on the left. He was not alone in his service. On the second day the chief fathers, etc., come to him to get understanding of the words of the law.
JT In public ministry, you need that support of your brethren; you have felt that, I am sure. Peter stood up with the eleven. When writing to the Galatians, Paul said, “And all the brethren with me”, Galatians 1:2. Elsewhere he says, “At my first answer no man stood with me”, 2 Timothy 4: 16.
GWW The apostle’s prayer (Ephesians 3:14 - 21) involves the truth in its fulness.
JT I think you step out of Ephesians 3, so to speak, into the gospels. The gospels present the truth in its relation to Christ. It is from the divine standpoint and I believe the gospels are the least [p. 275] understood of all the Scriptures for the reason that the saints are not free to look at Christ in relation to what He has effected for God, and who He is.
HG We see Him thus as effecting everything for God and the centre of all He effects.
AFM Would you prescribe an order to read the gospels?
JT Well, hardly; each presents Him in a distinctive way. But first the question arises as to whether we have graduated from the first day here. It says — “They understood the words that were declared to them”, that is, they understood whatever Ezra read. But there was more than that. We want all the Scriptures. The Lord said after He was risen — “The words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the Psalms, concerning me”, Luke 24:44. That is the law; and the prophets, the testimony intended to bring man back to God; and then you have the Psalms, the experience of the man that abides by the law.
GWW We need to be set free from being occupied with man in his responsibility in order that we may see things as in Christ. The Spirit constantly works in us to this end.
JT Yes. You see they understood the words that were declared, but we need the whole testimony of Scripture. As we have seen, the Lord referred to the law of Moses, and the prophets, and the Psalms. It is quite obvious that Ezra did not read all, although he must have read a good deal. But the Lord indicated the whole scope of Scripture. There is the law of Moses, declaring the rights of God, and there are the prophets, declaring the patience of God in waiting upon His people that they might be restored; and then there are the Psalms, the record of the experience of those who abode in the law of God. As gaining [p. 276] wisdom in the words of the law, we come to see the whole scope of Scripture.
JB Philip said to Nathanael, “We have found him of whom Moses wrote in the law and the prophets”, John 1:45. Nathanael spoke of Him as Son of God and King of Israel.
JT Yes, and what is so interesting in Hebrews 1, is that the Holy Spirit is pleased to select from the books that record the experiences of the saints, that is to say, the Psalms, all the titles given to the Lord in that chapter; the Holy Spirit, as it were, honouring the saints in their experiences and bringing out of them the testimony to the “excellent name”; it is what Christ obtains among the saints. It is worked out in their experience. John 1 is remarkable in bringing out the titles of Christ attaching to His Person. It is not given from the standpoint of the saints’ experience but from the standpoint of His Person; but Hebrews 1 is quoted from the standpoint of the experience of the saints of God.
AFM Would you mind saying how we should read the gospels?
JT Well, it is just as I was saying. You go to the gospels with the experience you have of Christ as learning the epistles. He has acquired a place in your soul. In Romans, Christ has acquired a place with me on moral grounds. You see, it is what Christ is morally. When I go to Colossians, I see what He is in relation to the assembly; He is our Head. It is what He is personally. He acquires a place on moral grounds, and then on personal grounds, and then, in the epistle to the Ephesians, on official grounds. Ephesians is God’s general operations for the accomplishment of His purpose and all is through Christ. He has acquired a name with me, and I go to the gospels.
AFM That brings you to infinitude.
HG In the gospels we are on the most elevated [p. 277] platform. God stands there and makes all His proposals in Christ; God is revealed there.
JT What an immense field there is in the gospels for the saints! All the epistles, all the Scriptures lead up to them.
GWW How little place we give to the Spirit to present Christ to us! We have to make room for the Spirit; we gain in that way, and if we are to pass on any mutual comfort, it must be as in the hands of the Spirit. The Spirit conducts the believer forward and then discloses in the gospels that the blessed Person who is brought before me there is now a living Man in glory.
WB-s But most of the gospel preaching is from the gospels. We have to go to them.
JT No doubt. Whilst preachers may take their texts from the gospels, the teaching of the saints does not begin there. The instruction that your soul requires primarily is in the epistles. Although you can take up and use, as knowing it, the teaching of the gospels, before you could preach from a passage in them you need to know Romans. The doctrine of the gospel is unfolded in Romans.
AFM The order you have given is important; the thought of Romans coming first, that is the Lord morally, and then Colossians, and then Ephesians.
Rem Really all this shows how the children of wisdom come into evidence as maintaining wisdom here. The Acts records the doings and the sayings of the children of wisdom in other words, it is a book which teaches us how the children of wisdom, maintained wisdom, in their measure, as it come out in Christ. “Wisdom has been justified of all her children”, Luke 7:35.
JT The teaching is in the epistles, they break up the truth for us.
GWW But in the gospels the soul is brought back to the contemplation of that blessed Person, “With adoring fervour”.
GWH You were saying a moment ago that it is a question whether most of us have got through the first day. Would Romans cover the first day?
JT It enters into it certainly. Before we are free to take up the Scriptures intelligently, we need the teaching of Romans. Then you come to the Scriptures as the source of wisdom; you get wisdom. If I look at creation as taught in any of the sciences, well, the book of Proverbs tells us that wisdom was there when these things were made. If you are inquiring into these, the great object in view should be to get at the wisdom that lay behind them. I may dig into the earth, as Job says, and get all kinds of minerals out of it, but “It is a path no bird of prey knoweth, and the vulture’s eye hath not seen it”, Job 28:7.
GWW That is what we want to get at. Going back to the early days of the late revival, we find that Ephesians came into prominence, because the Man in glory was engaging the attention of souls, and the Spirit was there in power to unfold these things to them.
JT They took up the Scriptures and sought wisdom in them; they sought “To gain wisdom as to the words of the law”. Every epistle written is in its divine place; and so with every prophet, and so with every psalm; and so with the historical books every part is in wisdom. As set free by the teaching of the Spirit we are enabled, as the sons of God, to see the varied perfection of the whole. When the foundations of the earth were laid, the sons of God shouted for joy. They were intelligent as to what God was doing and in sympathy with it.
GWW Can you go on and speak of the wisdom of God as indicated in the second day?
JT That is where the epistle to the Ephesians comes in.
AFM “Able to comprehend with all saints”, and [p. 279] so on.
RSS In that connection it is rather suggestive that with the feast of tabernacles you get the thought of the gate of Ephraim. We must include every saint now in connection with the feast of tabernacles.
JT “Judah shall not vex Ephraim”, Isaiah 11:13. There is love for all. It shows how complete the recovery was.
HG In David you get adjustment, but as to Solomon — you just come, like the queen of Sheba, and behold His glory and learn from Him. Would that suggest first the epistles and then the gospels?
JT I think so; in the gospels you contemplate His glory.
GWW Ephesians is not understood, because of the lack of moral condition.
JT The second day is a test as to what spiritual power there is. How far can we go?
WCR The feast of tabernacles here is different from that in Leviticus 23. What would you say as to that?
JT Well, I suppose it is in keeping with the time. It says, “Go forth to the mount, and fetch olive-branches, and wild olive-branches and myrtle-branches, and palm-branches, and branches of thick trees, to make booths as it is written”. I suppose it was in keeping with the moment. There were “Goodly trees” (Leviticus 23:40) mentioned in the book of Leviticus. Here we have wild olive trees, as well as olives. I suppose there is room here for those who are a bit lawless to be brought in. The energy present was sufficient to bring in the wild ones. They were olive trees. Typically, such as have the Holy Spirit but are not wholly subject. The energy there was sufficient to bring them in.
BTF Do you identify the various trees with the various souls brought in, as it were?
JT I think, taken together, they furnish what is necessary for the feast of tabernacles. You want the Spirit. It is the Spirit figured as olive [p. 280] oil, and the different trees denote what is necessary under these circumstances.
BTF In connection with the palm trees, would it not be the thought of victory?
JT Yes, it is. In the olive you have the saints with the Spirit, and the myrtle is the evidence of life, ever green. The palm is victory and the thick trees for protection.
BTF Would that not represent to us the wonderful place of rest and enjoyment we have been brought to as the climax of the work of Christ?
JT Yes, quite.
WCR In Romans 11 the Gentiles are spoken of as being “wild olive trees”.
JT Well, they were brought in. There is hope for all wild ones now, is there not?
WCR There will come a time when the Jew and the Gentile will be together.
AFM A young believer could participate in this.
HG What is it they participate in? Does it suggest the Supper?
JT I think it is brotherly affection. We are dwelling together in the most intimate way in little companies, but in perfect relation with one another, in perfect confidence. The feast of tabernacles contemplates sufficient confidence to allow you to dwell together in this intimate way.
HG Conditions exist morally suited for the Lord’s supper.
JT Quite. I think the feast of tabernacles contemplates the utmost confidence. It is not a question of a formal assembly gathering; the booths were on the roofs of people’s houses, their courts, the courts of the house of God, and so on. This feast suggests the most intimate brotherly relations.
AL What is the teaching of sitting under the booths as applied to us in the present day?
JT It is the extreme brotherly confidence that [p. 281] should mark us. The saints are dwelling together, without reserve and in liberty with one another. I think it contemplates the Lord’s part, too, because it was a “feast of Jehovah”, Leviticus 23:39. It is good and pleasant in his eyes to see brethren dwelling together in unity; Psalm 133.
AL They were in the courts of the house of God.
JT The booths were in various positions, as we have noticed. This feast was a reminder of wilderness experience, but it afforded a delightful season in Jerusalem, as the people came there once a year.
B.T.F. Was this a climax?
JT It is God having reached His desired end. The saints are together in the utmost confidence and affection. We move in and out in these little abiding places with perfect freedom.
GWW You anticipate the day when all that keeps them apart shall be done away with entirely. The various distinctions which may be recognised now are all put on one side; we are all taking one common ground.
JT You see it in Deuteronomy. It comes in after the feast of weeks; that is Pentecost. It means that the saints have an outlet to heaven by the Spirit. There is no limited time for the feast of Pentecost. From it the saints come out, as you might say, from heaven to earth; and here they are with each other, governed by brotherly confidence and affection. That is the idea of it. The saints are free and have confidence in one another in the enjoyment of spiritual relationships.
BTF It takes on the moral character of blessing: “There hath Jehovah commanded the blessing”, Psalm 133:3.
JT It is the end of the purpose of God that the brethren shall dwell together in unity.
RSS The feast began with a sabbath and ended with a sabbath. It would indicate the rest of God.
JT [p. 282] Quite so. It was called a feast of Jehovah, the only feast indeed lasting eight days.
Rem The first day, you said educated us for the second day. In the second day, we come together to look at the glories of the glorified Man.
JT Yes. With that in our souls, we reach the temple. Anyone that gains “Wisdom as to the words of the law” will look with the utmost scorn on the efforts of infidels to divide up Scripture. These men have absolutely lied in regard to Scripture. You look with the utmost scorn on them. You have wisdom in regard to the words of the law, your soul enjoys that. Wisdom was there when the Scriptures were indited.
WLP In Ephesians we have the wisdom of God.
JT Everything was gathered up in the apostle’s prayer (Ephesians 3), you feel. The Father names all the families and He is asked to strengthen us by His Spirit in the inner man, that the Christ may dwell, through faith in our hearts, that being rooted and founded in love, we may be able to apprehend with all saints the full extent of the purpose of God, and that we may know the love of Christ and be filled unto all the fulness of God. We have hardly touched the fringe of what is presented here. The apostle was touched in his heart as he reached the fulness of God, and so went from prayer to worship, speaking of what God will do for us according to the power that worketh in us. “To him be glory in the assembly in Christ Jesus unto all generations of the age of ages, Amen”.