THE LIFE WHICH IS IN CHRIST JESUS (11)
THE LIFE WHICH IS IN CHRIST JESUS (11)
JT It is generally known that we are thinking of continuing the subject of life. We read from the first epistle of John at our last reading, finishing with chapter 3. It is thought that we should read the last chapter tonight. This scripture is intended to be confirmatory of what we have had in the ten previous readings on this subject. The epistles are usually intended to meet certain local conditions, but this epistle is not written to a local assembly. It is general, but specific as to its principle subject; it mainly deals with life, and it is characterised by the presentation of subjective truth. This is especially seen in this chapter: “He that believes on the Son of God has the witness in himself” (verse 10). This verse reminds us that in the possession of the Spirit, we have the means in ourselves of confirmation of what God presents to us. So that there should be some confirmation in most of us as to this matter of life, and by extension, as to every matter. There is considerable declension and deflection — considerable turning aside from the truth — and the secret is that there is not confirmation of it in our souls. The Lord, when there was a drifting away from Him, challenged His disciples, saying, “Will ye also go away?” John 6: 67. The reply of Peter was, “Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast words of life eternal”. That is what we have been seeking to understand in the recent series of meetings, involving whether we really have the witness in ourselves. If we have, how can we go away? Peter adds, “We have believed and known that thou art the holy one of God” (verse 69).
[p. 229] It seems, therefore, that this chapter has a fitting place in the resumption of our subject so that we might proceed with some measure of understanding and assurance, that we may be learners or gainers in what comes before us.
I thought that we might take the chapter as it is, first as to victory — how victory is accorded to us as begotten of God. The chapter begins, “Every one that believes that Jesus is the Christ is begotten of God; and every one that loves him that has begotten loves also him that is begotten of him. Hereby know we that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments” (verses 1 - 3). The defect in many, I believe, is the want of understanding of having been begotten of God and how it works towards God and towards the brethren, so that there is a balanced love amongst us; that is, we love God by whom we are begotten, and we love the brethren — those who are also begotten of Him. The idea is that we are all begotten of God. It is proved in different ways. It says, in verse 1, “Every one that believes that Jesus is the Christ is begotten of God”. That is not simply that he believes something because he has read it, but he is begotten of God; and not simply that he believes on the Lord Jesus, but he believes that He is the Christ.
CAM This is an evidence that John’s writings apply especially to the present time. This matter of life is important amongst the people of God when death seems to be pervading everything outwardly at the moment. It is a wonderful thing that this life is existent.
JT And the assurance that it affords as among the brethren, that we are conscious mutually of possessing love as begotten of God. Believing that Jesus is the Christ is not simply believing on Him as our Saviour. His name means Saviour, but it is [p. 230] another thing that He is the Christ; that is, He is the One anointed of God to do things for Him. He is in charge of everything.
CAM Believing that Jesus is the Christ is at the beginning of the paragraph, but the paragraph ends with, “... he that believes that Jesus is the Son of God” (verse 5). Were you going to distinguish between those two thoughts?
JT I think the Lord would help us to look at what this paragraph presents. Believing that Jesus is the Christ would mean that He is the Messiah, if a Jew were in question. We are not Jews, but gentile believers, but the idea of the Christ applies to us as it did to them; that is, He is the One whom God has taken on as effecting all His thoughts and purposes. Then, as believing that He is the Son of God, the victory is gained: “Who is he that gets the victory over the world, but he that believes that Jesus is the Son of God?” This implies another world. The Christ takes up all that refers to this world — the gospel, prophecy, etc. — but the Son of God brings in another world.
CAM Was not the Christ a mark of Peter’s ministry from the beginning? “God has made him ... both Lord and Christ”, Acts 2: 36.
JT Quite so; the confirmation of it was, “Having therefore been exalted by the right hand of God, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this which ye behold and hear” (verse 33). He had done that wonderful thing. He had “poured out this”. That does not mean, exactly, that He was to bring in another world, but that He would do things here — meet conditions here. “He has poured out this which ye behold and hear”.
TEH Is that what the woman in John 4 apprehended in her soul? She said, “Come, see a man who [p. 231] told me all things I had ever done: is not he the Christ?” (verse 29).
JT Just so; He did things. He told her everything she had ever done.
AAT Begotten of God is, I suppose, the sovereign work of God, but does it take place at some given time?
JT It is a fuller term than born again. John uses the latter term too, which is more initial than this; it is said to be by the Spirit. “That which is born of the Spirit is spirit”, John 3: 6; but this is begotten of God. It is a fuller thought, and as 1 John 5 states, the evidence of it in the person is that he believes that Jesus is the Christ. Born of God includes new birth, but it is more advanced as to truth and experience, including the knowledge of redemption and the parental relation into which God has entered with the believer. John 3 indicates that new birth is a definite single operation of the Spirit, whereas begotten of God is progressive, involving the knowledge of God as Father and possession of the Spirit.
RWS In moving on from believing that Jesus is the Christ to believing that Jesus is the Son of God, would the man in John 9 illustrate the process by which the latter is reached?
JT Yes. It looks as if the Lord waited for a certain time in the man’s history or experience before He introduced to him the thought of His sonship. When He heard that they had cast him out He found him. There is no doubt that the Lord has to wait for most of us until something happens. How far have we gone? Can the Lord take us on and bring us into something greater and more conclusive than we have had? The Lord has waited for most of us, I would say, in order to take us on and bring us into something more distinctive and final. He waited until this man was cast out. It is said, “Jesus heard [p. 232] that they had cast him out, and having found him, he said to him, Thou, dost thou believe on the Son of God? He answered and said, And who is he, Lord, that I may believe on him? And Jesus said to him, Thou hast both seen him, and he that speaks with thee is he” (verses 35 - 37). That is what happened then, and I believe it is very applicable now in this hall.
AAT Would that man’s faith, in result, give him the victory over the world?
JT Just so. He was cast out and he would feel that he was an outcast. There would be a certain loneliness about his position and the feeling that he was hated; so that the Lord would give him the victory. He needed it, and we all need the sense of victory in our souls.
JTJr The Lord did not tell him to go and sin no more, as He did the man in chapter 5, who caused the Lord trouble.
JT Just so; he went away and told the Jews that it was Jesus who had made him well. But there was no light in what he did. This man did nothing like that. He was detained before the Lord, and the Lord, in principle, opened up another world to him, where he will not be alone, but in life and victory. Chapter 10 is the continuation of the truth developing here.
TEH How does the Lord hear when a soul gets to this point? Was it via prayer that the Lord heard?
JT Chapter 9 says, “Jesus heard that they had cast him out”. How did the tidings come to him? We have often spoken of assembly ears. Things happen and only a few know about them because so many do not have assembly ears. It is said, in Acts 11, of certain facts, that “the report concerning them reached the ears of the assembly which was in Jerusalem” (verse 22). Here it is just stated that Jesus heard that they had cast him out and He moved according to that, as it says, “And having found him,
he said to him”, etc. But how did he hear? It is not stated as though it were a matter of consciousness; it is the idea of something coming to His ear. The Lord is ever ready for this: a report or information about His people. It might be through prayer, as you say, but I would rather think that the Lord, here, was taking cognisance of reported conditions. Our care meetings afford opportunities for telling of things, and we have letters coming to us — important letters that we read at our prayer meetings, and which brethren pass around — also things which are passed from mouth to ear so that general conditions may become known. I believe that the Lord was in just that position here, in John 9. He was dealing with historical facts. He said, “Thou hast both seen him, and he that speaks with thee is he”.
WFK The man had been very faithful. Do you think the Lord supports us when we are faithful to Him?
JT Undoubtedly the Lord had divinely watched over all that had happened, but I think that the use of the word ‘heard’ means that He was looking for information as any one of us might look for it — valuable information as regards the work of God.
JS Was the man lost in Judaism and the Lord found him?
JT He was found as an outcast. You can hardly say that he was lost in Judaism because Judaism cast him out. The Lord also was an outcast.
ABP We are told that this man was born blind that the works of God should be manifested in him. Would that suggest that the very circumstances of birth and early life and environment of those who are born of God have been watched over by God all in view of His work and its completion?
JT Yes. You will notice that it is said, “As he passed on, he saw a man blind from birth”. It does not say the disciples saw him; the Lord saw him.
[p. 234] Later, the disciples asked Jesus about him, but Jesus saw him first.
ASP The fact that the Jews had taken up stones to stone Him would emphasise that fact. Humanly speaking, He would be moving rapidly away from His persecutors.
JT Yes. It is very remarkable that the Lord saw the man first; also that in taking him up He said that neither his parents nor he had sinned. Captious people would say that what the Lord was saying was not true, because the Scriptures say that everyone has sinned. But what the Lord said was absolutely true from His point of view. The inquiry of the disciples would refer to God’s governmental dealings (Exodus 20: 5, 6), and the Lord’s reply implied this and other similar passages.
AAT Is it your point that he reached life at the end in reaching the Son?
JT Yes; although strictly the Son reached him. What we are saying now is of the utmost importance as bearing on whether our souls are getting on in the truth. The Lord takes us up in relation to the truth and for manifestation of the works of God, and unless these are there nothing is happening. The Lord is looking for some manifestation of the works of God. So He found this man. In view of all that had transpired since He had seen him before, He says to the man, “Thou hast both seen him, and he that speaks with thee is he”. It would be very hard to prove that, except from the Lord’s own words. The passage does not say anything about that at first, but of course, the Lord is dealing with the facts of the case. But as to the man’s history, the Lord evidently treats of it in the first verses of the chapter as divinely known to Him. Why cannot God take up anyone viewing him entirely from the standpoint of what He intends to bring about in him? Why cannot God shut out [p. 235] all else?
CAM So that would be seen in his reaction when he saw Jesus, the Son of God.
JT It is a question of the works of God being manifested.
WWM And manifested in a person, too?
JT Quite so. He is the subject of the chapter.
JS Does this incident lend lustre to the suggestion of something to be manifested, in chapter 1, “Thou shalt be called Cephas”?
JT It is a question of the works of God being manifested in a man. It is a big subject, though only one man is in mind here. It is the works of God — not only new birth — it is the works. God takes on each, one at a time. But man is the subject of the works of God.
WR The Lord, in taking us on, has the testimony in mind. It says, “The neighbours therefore, and those who used to see him before, that he was a beggar, said, Is not this he that was sitting and begging?” They discerned the great change that had come about in him.
JT Yes; it is the works of God showing themselves. There are negative attachments, but the works of God are positive. All that is recorded of this man after his eyes were opened, is to bring out how the works of God were being manifested in him. What will eternity be? — a display of the works of God in persons. This is immense in its importance. Each of us is to hold himself in that way; that he is taken up sovereignly. God is entitled to view each of us sovereignly and treat us from His own point of view.
ABP Does John 9 enhance the greatness of the work of God in that the end reached wholly justifies the fact that the man was born blind and suffered the handicaps of blindness so long?
JT Just so; the Lord now has a subject for another world. He is not finished with him yet, but the man has gone on well. He is seen worshipping [p. 236] the Son of God. What follows is chapter 10, involving another world. The Son of God is now in evidence, as we have here: “Who is he that gets the victory over the world, but he that believes that Jesus is the Son of God?” This man gets the victory over the world; not that as cast out of the synagogue he had the victory, but he was going on to it, and clearly he will reach it. The Lord takes him on as fit for greater things, and chapters 10 and 11 open up what He has in mind; that is, that God may be glorified and the Son of God glorified. That is a great suggestion — God glorified, and the Son of God glorified in one person. That was seen in Lazarus, but it is the same thing, in principle, in this man. God is going to be glorified in every person that He takes up. That is the idea, and one has to hold himself in that way.
AI How do you connect what you are saying about this blind man, and the work of God in him, with the thought of life which you have before you?
JT The work of God, in the earlier part of the chapter, is seen in the facts presented, which we have not time to go into in detail, but in general they are that the Lord spat on the ground and made mud of the spittle and put the mud, as ointment, on the man’s eyes and said to him, “Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, which is interpreted, Sent. He went therefore and washed, and came seeing”. Notice that this is what the man did. “The neighbours therefore, and those who used to see him before, that he was a beggar, said, Is not this he that was sitting and begging? Some said, It is he; others said. No, but he is like him: he said, It is I”. He is standing before them now self-confessed. He is the one that God is working with and in whom the works of God are being manifested — on the principle of doing what he is told to do.
JTJr Is the I carried forward in that way? He says, “It is I” Is that the carrying forward of [p. 237] the identity of the person that has this new thing in him?
JT Just so; the identity of the person; and that goes through into eternity. It will never leave him.
WCR Would this thought of obedience be seen in what Paul says, “I took not counsel with flesh and blood”, Galatians 1: 16?
JT There can be nothing without that. God gives the Holy Spirit to those that obey — no others. We have no true part in the things of God if we have not the Spirit, but we get it on the principle of obedience, so that the ‘I’ goes through.
FNW Is Paul seeking to bring this home to us in Romans 9: 23? He says, “That he might make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy, which he had before prepared for glory”.
JT That is right. So that it is the glory of God and the glory of the Son of God. That is what this section has in mind.
JTJr Is not the thought that we should not carry forward this old thing that had been connected with I — Sihon and Og? Is not that all to be set aside by this operation of God in us?
JT Yes. It is very significant that those two men, Sihon and Og, come in as Israel was about to cross Jordan. We do not take the big I over there. We go over “in Christ” and that is what we are dealing with now in John’s epistle. The life is in God’s Son. There is no big I there.
ABP Is that why the Lord could say of Lazarus, “Loose him and let him go”?
JT That is the idea. It is the culmination of this section. This man of chapter 9, and all that he represents, merges into chapter 11. Then the group at Bethany would show how we come together to make a supper for the Lord — to honour the Lord — so [p. 238] that this leads us back to our chapter in John’s epistle, which is really the culmination, as I have said, of the subject engaging us. We see where life is; it is in the Son. As born of God we believe that Jesus is the Christ, and then we have the victory over the world; in verse 5 it is asked, “Who is he that gets the victory over the world, but he that believes that Jesus is the Son of God?” Then verse 6 begins with this great matter of witness — witness to us — so that we should have experience in this matter, that we should possess life in consciousness. Hence, John says, in verse 13, “These things have I written to you that ye may know that ye have eternal life who believe on the name of the Son of God”. The word ‘know’ in that verse is conscious knowledge. A class of persons is in mind.
WR Is not that like what we have in Romans 8: 16, “The Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit, that we are children of God”? Would it show that we are of a different order of man altogether?
JT Quite so; it is the Spirit’s action in us that is the witness. Here the Spirit is the witness to the water and the blood. “This is he that came by water and blood, Jesus the Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that bears witness, for the Spirit is the truth”, 1 John 5: 6. The passage you allude to is in Romans 8, and the word there is ‘children’, alluding to what we are here as the objects of God’s care in this world. Here, verse 6 says, “The Spirit ... bears witness, for the Spirit is the truth”. That is, the witness here is not simply that we are children of God; it refers to the truth. If the brethren will look at the New Translation they will see a footnote about the article before the word ‘truth’. “The Spirit is the truth”. The proposition is what is called reciprocal. The Spirit witnesses to the truth in its entirety; there is nothing left out. We have the whole matter in the witness of the Spirit.
[p. 239] The truth is commensurate with the Spirit in this sense. The whole truth is in the Spirit.
AI Would you connect John 20: 22 with what you are speaking of in relation to witness? It says, “He breathed into them, and says to them, Receive the Holy Spirit”.
JT It would be involved. It is not simply that we are children of God. He is witnessing to us of the whole truth as set forth in Christ, who is also said to be the truth. The whole truth of redemption and the Spirit coming in from Christ in heaven is implied. Thus why should we be without full knowledge of eternal life? It is what is in Christ. This section, beginning with verse 6, deals with this whole matter. The position of eternal life, objectively, is in Christ; in the Son. But it is in us, too. We are told earlier that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. There are people that have not eternal life abiding in them, and will never have it. But christians have it and the witness of it is in ourselves.
FNW Does what you were saying recently about John being in the Spirit, confirming in himself the Lord’s day, link with this?
JT Just so. The truth of the first day of the week, or the Lord’s day, would be confirmed in John. “I became in the Spirit on the Lord’s day”, Revelation 1: 10. The Lord’s day is there. You could not find it in an almanac. It is in John; he was in the Spirit. That is the same idea. If we are in the Spirit we are witnessing to certain things.
APT Is eternal life a more expanded truth here than when the Lord was with the disciples? When the Lord was here it was not witnessed to by the water and the blood.
JT It is in the present time. This section deals with what is now; the position of eternal life. It was only in Christ then, but now it is in us as well; but what is in us is in Him positionally in its entirety.
[p. 240] Its position is in the Son. This epistle teaches us as to what eternal life is and where it is. It is in Christ — in the Son — which would imply moral elevation; not exactly position in heaven, but moral elevation which is implied in the thought of the Son of God. If you grasp the idea of the Son of God, you have moral greatness; moral elevation. The thing is outside the world, if it is in Him. You cannot connect the idea of the Son of God with this world. It is outside the world, and the witness of the Spirit is to the water and the blood. They show how we are detached from this world and set up in another world, not exactly in heaven, but in the Son of God, involving, as said, moral greatness and moral elevation.
CAM The more you dwell on this subjective matter, the more precious the gospel really becomes to you. In other words, the subjective and the objective ideas are commensurate with one another, are they not?
JT Yes. There must be witness here of the thing that is in question. This is the witness, that God has given to us eternal life. It is a great fact that He has given that to us, and the position of that life is in the Son. It is in a fixed out-of-the-world place, not exactly heaven, but in the Son of God. Well, who is the witness to that? In a sense, the witness of it is in those who have it in the Son of God. It is the subjective side here. “These things have I written to you that ye may know that ye have eternal life who believe on the name of the Son of God”. You know the thing in yourself, but where is the thing that you have? Where has God placed it? Well, you say, it is placed in the saints. No, it is in the Son of God. That is where it is, but we have it in us by the Spirit.
JS I was wondering whether verse 13, “... who believe on the name of the Son of God”, would imply that the belief is a present [p. 241] thing.
JT That is the point that is made. In the gospel it says, that “... ye might have life in his name”, but here it is that you may know that you have it. It is conscious knowledge.
APT In verse 11 we are told, “And this is the witness, that God has given to us eternal life”. And then the Spirit of God says, “And this life is in his Son”. Is there any difference by the addition of the word ‘eternal’ in the first passage quoted?
JT I would not think so. “This life is in his Son”. It is the same life. As to the matter of witness, it says, “And it is the Spirit that bears witness, for the Spirit is the truth”. That is the great fact of witness, that the Person who is witnessing is the whole truth. As we were saying, it is a reciprocal matter. You may turn it round and say, The truth is the Spirit. We have a firm foundation in that. And then, “For they that bear witness are three: the Spirit, and the water, and the blood; and the three agree in one” (verse 8). The word ‘agree’ means that they are to one point or purpose — to one thing in their testimony. The threefold witness is not that each one witnesses to something, but all is to one purpose — to establish the truth in our souls. The witness is to us; it is not what is in heaven, but what is down here. And then it goes on to say, “If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater”. The Spirit is stressing the thought of witness. And then, “For this is the witness of God which he has witnessed concerning his Son. He that believes on the Son of God has the witness in himself” (verses 9, 10). That is the point to notice, so that each one can be sure in himself. And then, “He that does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the witness which God has witnessed concerning his Son. And this is the witness, that God has given to us eternal life; and this life is in his Son”. Now, you were inquiring whether eternal life and life in verse 11 [p. 242] are the same. I think they are. The demonstrative pronoun is pointing to eternal life. That is, that this life is eternal life, and the position of it, as for us, is in the Son. It is in a fixed position. It is not said that it is in heaven, but in the Son — that position of greatness, dignity and elevation. It is away from the influence of this world.
WFK What life is referred to in, “We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren”, chapter 3: 14?
JT That is the life we are speaking about. We know, if we love the brethren, that this has taken place in us; it is a conscious matter.
AR “He that has the Son has life”, (verse 12). The believer has part in it.
JT Yes. “He that has the Son has life: he that has not the Son of God has not life”. The point is eternal life; nothing less than that is contemplated in all this use of the word ‘life’.
AR In all these remarks, we are not holding the truth merely abstractly.
JT No. It is most important to maintain the consciousness of it, and to ask ourselves the question, Have we made any headway in this great inquiry?
JTJr Joshua and Caleb would represent, in type, those who have the thing. And as they came into the land they realised what had been divinely promised.
JT They came through.
AW Was Paul making headway when he preached that Jesus is the Son of God (Acts 9: 20)? Had he made headway up to that point?
JT He preached that; but I would observe that we may be able to preach much more than we are conscious of. What is so needed in the saints is power for appropriation — when you are sitting down, or lying down, or wherever you are. The Spirit gives [p. 243] you the consciousness of the thing, and makes you victorious. We may preach well and not be conscious of the thing we are speaking about. Your first preaching is not always the best. Peter’s address at Pentecost was excellent — especially supported by the Spirit — but Peter preached before. We do not get the very best from a first preaching. You get more what the preacher has objectively.
ES Paul says, in 2 Corinthians 12, “I know a man in Christ”.
JT That would mean that as he wrote he had the same consciousness as when he was taken up. The word ‘know’ there is conscious knowledge. Knowing himself as a man in Christ was, we may say, a continuous thing with him for fourteen years. The point as to consciousness is what we ought to get as looking into this chapter.
EAL It is most interesting in reading in John 9 about the man having eyesight given him. It was not restored; he had not had it before. You were emphasising the word ‘seeing’. “He went therefore and washed, and came seeing” (verse 7). This witness must therefore be linked with that.
JT That helps us. Let us go back to John 9 to see the tenses of the verb ‘see’ used by this man in giving his account of how he received his sight. In verse 8 it is said, “The neighbours therefore, and those who used to see him before, that he was a beggar, said, Is not this he that was sitting and begging? Some said, It is he; others said, No, but he is like him: he said, It is I” We have already touched on that, but I am bringing forward what he said. Then in verse 11, we read, “He answered and said, A man called Jesus made mud and anointed mine eyes, and said to me, Go to Siloam and wash: and having gone and washed, I saw”. That is historical. Then verse 13 says, “They bring him who was before blind to the Pharisees. Now it was [p. 244] sabbath when Jesus made the mud and opened his eyes. The Pharisees therefore also again asked him how he received his sight. And he said to them, He put mud upon mine eyes, and I washed, and I see”. Now, let the brethren notice that. One is past tense and the other is present tense. This illustrates what we are speaking about. The man was now conscious that he was seeing. “I saw” — something might have happened after that to blur his vision, but his sight was clear when he was speaking to the Pharisees, and he says, “I see”. It is the present state the man is in. That is what we are speaking of now — it is what we actually are in regard of eternal life.
FNW What bearing have the water and the blood on our subject suggested in 1 John 5?
JT They refer to redemption. “This is he that came by water and blood, Jesus the Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that bears witness, for the Spirit is the truth. For they that bear witness are three: the Spirit, and the water, and the blood”. Notice that the water comes first in both cases. It is not now by water only, but by water and blood; then the three that bear witness are the Spirit, and the water, and the blood. Now, why should John be stressing this matter of water? Is it not just bearing on what we are saying? — that the state of the brethren is not equal to their light? Most of us are forgiven of our sins; we know the Lord Jesus as Saviour, and we have forgiveness, but very few of us understand the state that goes with the gift of the Spirit. John is dealing with the general state in which we are; not only the effect of the blood, which relieves our consciences, but the state of deliverance from the working of sin, resulting from purification by the death of Christ, symbolised in the water.
CAM I am very glad that feature of the truth has come up. I believe this matter of consciously [p. 245] having the Spirit and solemnly taking account of our state would have a most marked effect.
JT An understanding of the water and definite appropriation of it settles the whole matter of what goes on amongst the brethren in their houses and in our general relations with one another. Now the state that the water produces is to render uprightness, transparency and holiness amongst ourselves. That is what John is aiming at in this chapter.
WCR Was the state right with the three Hebrew children in Daniel? They purposed in their hearts not to defile themselves with the king’s meat, and then they had with them in the furnace, the fourth like a Son of God. Is the thought of victory there, too?
JT Yes. The Son of God, as we have been saying, is stressed in the chapter before us. They believed on Him, in principle. The Son of God had joined them; He was a fourth. Can He do it now? This chapter means that if He is to join us, the state must be right.
AR John the baptist says, “I come baptising with water” (John 1: 31), but of the Son of God he says, “He it is who baptises with the Holy Spirit”, (verse 33). You were speaking of how we speak about the brethren in our homes. It would be very serious to speak wrongly of them, but we are apt to do so. Although forgiven, and in fellowship, that does not settle the matter of transparency. This epistle deals with a subjective condition among the brethren involving eternal life.
AAT Does it not require more spirituality to discern state than to discern acts?
JT It does. If I am characterised by a purified state of soul, I can carry on a conversation without bringing in what is detrimental. The water represents the application of the death of Christ to the believer so as to effect and maintain in him a state answering to his position “in Christ”.
AR We thus understand how closely we are related to one another as of the body.
JT The witness of the Spirit as to the water and the blood effects this result. It is the Spirit that bears witness; this implies that you get a perfect testimony, as you listen to Him, to the water and the blood. The water comes first. If you were preaching the gospel, you would put the blood first, but in the matter of state, the saints need the water. The Spirit is the truth and hence, as place is accorded to Him, the whole truth will come out.
JAP Are you speaking of the water in relation to John 13, where the Lord washed the feet of the disciples?
JT Yes. It is in the sense in which the water purifies. Blood purifies in an objective sense. It is a matter of testimony — what I believe — but water is permeating, tending to nullify and remove the effects of sin within the believer, hence: “Not a cloud above — not a spot within”. The application of the water by the Spirit goes deep and is searching, so as to purify and bring about in the believer a different state than that in which he has been.
Ques Does it enable me to maintain a pure mind and a pure conscience and view the brethren as holy brethren?
JT Yes. We must always clothe them in that way.
FSC Is the means of cleansing, that which came out of the Lord’s side?
JT That is a touching fact. The Lord’s side is thus connected with this great subject of a good state. His side implies His affection for the assembly. In truth, the Holy Spirit would give us to understand that the assembly has come out of Christ’s side, as Eve came out of Adam.
JTJr That is very instructive, because Ephesians speaks of Christ purifying the assembly by the washing [p. 247] of water by the word; and the last word in Ephesians is incorruption.
WR What you are saying is very searching, for the ministry comes to us by the Spirit. Have you in mind that our souls may be established in a purified and living condition?
JT That is right. That is just the phrase to use. We may now proceed to note certain other things mentioned in our chapter, we might say, incidentally, to help us, “And this is the boldness which we have towards him, that if we ask him anything according to his will he hears us. And if we know that he hears us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions which we have asked of him” (verses 14, 15). That brings out the state of things where prayer is heard, and we know that if God hears us, He will act for us. This is very confirmatory in relation to the great subject before us. And then, “If any one see his brother sinning a sin not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life”. Notice here the giving of life, which is also in keeping with our subject. It is for one who, although he sins a sin, it is not unto death. The apostle says further, “There is a sin to death: I do not say of that that he should make a request. Every unrighteousness is sin; and there is a sin not to death. We know that every one begotten of God does not sin, but he that has been begotten of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies in the wicked one. And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding that we should know him that is true; and we are in him that is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life” (verses 16 - 20). Now these are added statements of truth that the Spirit of God sees the need for in us, that there might be right relations among us and that we might be consciously in fellowship. We come to the idea of [p. 248] God in Jesus, that He is the true God and eternal life. The end in view is that we are consciously in the presence of Deity in Christ, and participating in eternal life. How immense all this truth is, and how blessed to have part in it!
WR Referring to prayer for one who sins, do you see this in Job at the end of his book? God says, “My servant Job shall pray for you”, chapter 42: 8.
JT Yes; he acts as a priest. Brothers that can do that are always needed.
APT “If any one see”, is evidently the thought of conscious knowledge. “If any one see his brother sinning a sin not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life”. What does that imply?
JT The reference is to a brother whose sin is not as serious as some. We have to grade sins that happen among us. We can go a certain length with some who sin. If it is a sin not unto death there is hope and the prayer is that he might live. Why should one die under the governmental dealings of God if there is a way of escape — of life?
TEH Would Nathan represent a man that would help a saint in view of a sin that was unto death?
JT Quite so; he put the sin on David’s conscience and it had a real effect. He said that he had sinned against the Lord and he lay on the earth in hope that Jehovah would save the child, but He did not. The child died. That implied that the sin was unto death.
ABP Is a sin unto death a sin against the truth?
JT I would think so. The whole truth as presented here. The Spirit is the truth. The truth implies the whole position. Apostasy is against the whole position. Sin in Hebrews is regarded as unforgivable. But I do not think this can be said of a sin unto death. The government of God is contemplated here, and only the discernment which the Spirit gives can judge rightly as to it. The [p. 249] teaching of the chapter contemplates this discernment. In Corinth many fell asleep because of conduct; but on the other hand, the incestuous person was disciplined, put away by the assembly and was restored.
AI How would you explain the statement here, “every one begotten of God does not sin”?
JT That is the abstract way of stating the truth which marks this epistle. It deals with things, each by itself. Hence, viewed in his mixed condition, a man would lie if he said he had no sin; whereas, viewed absolutely as born of God he cannot sin. Compare chapter 1: 8 and chapter 3: 9.
APT Paul says, “Thou hast been thoroughly acquainted with my teaching, conduct”, etc., 2 Timothy 3: 10. I was wondering if the worldly apparel, adornment of face and other such things taken on from the world would militate against life and eternal life.
JT I am sure they do. Eternal life is not simply a heavenly thing, but an out-of-the-world state and condition of being. We cannot get a better definition than that. An out-of-the-world condition does not take on these things. It abominates them.