THE LIFE WHICH IS IN CHRIST JESUS (16)
[p. 360] THE LIFE WHICH IS IN CHRIST JESUS (16)
JT The sign with which this chapter begins helps us in what is in view as to eternal life. The sign in chapter 5, an impotent man raised up by the Lord, also helps as to what is in view in that chapter. This time it is feeding a multitude, so that the idea of food is in mind, but it is food unto eternal life, and hence, as the verse with which we began says, “Work not for the food which perishes, but for the food which abides unto life eternal, which the Son of man shall give to you”. The Son of man is seen as sealed by God the Father in view of service worked out from our side; that is, the believer’s appropriation of the food that is furnished unto life eternal.
ANW When you speak of our side, would you say a word as to how it takes on the form of work? The Lord seems to imply that we are to work for it.
JT It is a question of the use of language — it illustrates the way language may be used. Later the Lord says, “This is the work of [p. 362] God, that ye believe on him whom he has sent”. Here we have, “Work not for the food which perishes, but for the food which abides unto life eternal”. Then you have the reference to the Father sealing the Son, that is, the Son of man. He, as on our side, governs all this. That is, the idea of work refers to what we are to be occupied with in appropriating what is made available. Of course, there is some suggestion of work in appropriation.
HB Does Proverbs 13: 4 fit in: “A sluggard’s soul desireth and hath nothing; but the soul of the diligent shall be made fat”?
JT It does, indeed. We know how much is involved in the preparation of food and then in the appropriation [p. 361] of it.
CAM Would you say this is food for the one that has been quickened, seen in the previous chapter?
JT Yes. The Spirit also quickens, as said in verse 63: “It is the Spirit which quickens, the flesh profits nothing”. This chapter is clearly a spiritual matter throughout. As has been remarked, the sign in it refers to food. It bears on the whole chapter; and so verse 27, with which we began, links with this; it brings us into it, in the sense of which we have been speaking, in the word ‘work’.
ANW The Lord opens the subject in the chapter with the query about buying loaves: “Whence shall we buy loaves that these may eat?” (verse 5). What phase of the matter is that?
JT It is in keeping with much in the chapter as to the natural mind. Much is said that is not spiritual. The Lord says to Philip, “Whence shall we buy loaves that these may eat? But this he said trying him, for he knew what he was going to do”. So that Philip’s answer shows the line he is on: “Loaves for two hundred denarii are not sufficient for them, that each may have some little portion”. And then one of His disciples, Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother, says to Him, “There is a little boy here who has five barley loaves and two small fishes; but this, what is it for so many?” (verse 9). The Lord would bring out where we are in such cases, and clearly the remarks point to natural sentiments governing the disciples; whereas the Lord had in mind that what He was going to do would relate to the spiritual; so that the verse already alluded to governs that: “It is the Spirit which quickens, the flesh profits nothing”. Hence we are, as it were, adjusted immediately. The Lord is on spiritual lines and the flesh profits nothing. Flesh would be seen in remarks that run throughout the chapter. As, for instance, verse 28: “What should we do that we may work the works of God? Jesus answered and said to them. This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he has sent. They said therefore to him, What sign then doest thou that we may see and believe thee? what dost thou work? Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, as it is written, He gave them bread out of heaven to eat”. They are just on natural lines.
SJH Are these questions that you refer to part of the preparation? You spoke of preparation in connection with the food; there is also the partaking of it.
JT Just so. Preparation must precede the idea of eating. It was said as to the passover (Luke 22: 9), “Where wilt thou that we prepare it?” Preparation must precede eating, and, of course, that raises the whole question of how this food has come into being. The Lord here refers to food under various designations; among which are “the food which abides unto life eternal” (verse 27); then, “Verily, verily, I say to you, It is not Moses that has given you the bread out of heaven; but my Father gives you the true bread out of heaven. For the bread of God is he who comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world”, (verses 32, 33). The crowd said to him, “Lord, ever give to us this bread”, but did they understand what they were saying? The Lord says, “I am the bread of life: he that comes to me shall never hunger, and he that believes on me shall never thirst at any time” (verse 35). So that the idea of preparation must enter into the chapter, and the Father is brought into it, and the Spirit is brought into it; but the Son of man is the prominent thought in it: “... which the Son of man shall give to you; for him has the Father sealed, even God” (verse 27), showing that He is taken on divinely by the Father to serve. He makes all this effective.
AR How is the idea of coming to Him and believing on Him (verse 35), worked out? “He that believes on me shall never thirst at any time”. He [p. 363] makes a great deal of coming to Him throughout the chapter.
JT It is our side of the truth that governs the whole chapter; the appropriation of what is brought within our reach is stressed. Earlier in the chapter the crowd had thought of making Him king, but now He is putting the whole position on spiritual lines, and it is worked out in coming to Him. He is not making a great show of what He is doing, but yet would be seen and heard and spoken to and ready to give what is needed to one who comes to Him.
DP Is this form of teaching intended to bring out what is of God in His people?
JT At first the ground is cleared, I think, in the Lord bringing out the natural in them. We have already noted that He knew what He was going to do: “But this he said trying him, for he knew what he was going to do” (verse 6). The trying side would be to bring out the natural, and, of course, it is a challenge to us at this very moment as to why we are here today and what we are seeking; what is in our minds? How much of the natural is governing us? He knows what He is going to do, and we need to get to that. It involves spiritual movement to Him.
AR He says later on, “No one can come to me except the Father who has sent me draw him”, John 6: 44. Is that the work of God in the soul?
JT Quite so. That is the leading thought in the chapter. The intended result of the Lord’s words and way here is to bring about a spiritual state in us, and that makes room for the Father and the Son and the Spirit to act according to what is seen here. So long as the natural is governing us we shut God out.
FNW Does the Lord have in mind food that is beyond the thought of manna? The people introduce the thought of manna, but did He have more in mind?
JT He had very much more in mind. Manna is not the idea of the chapter. The Lord excludes it in His comment: “It is not Moses that has given yon the bread out of heaven; but my Father gives you the true bread out of heaven. For the bread of God is he who comes down out of heaven and gives life to the world”. The idea of the manna is excluded because, as a type, it refers to Christ as a Man here in flesh and blood. But this teaching is that the food is Christ dead. The blood is separated from the body. His blood is to be drunk, and His flesh is to be eaten.
AR Would it be in principle after the Lord came off the cross?
JT Just so. It has to be appropriated. Who can come to that? So that the thief would be ready, and others. It was a learning time; a piercing time, too. Simeon said to the Lord’s mother, “... and even a sword shall go through thine own soul”, Luke 2: 35. That is what she would see. She stood by the cross and so did John and others.
CN Is He presenting Himself in contrast to all that exists? Death is on everything here, but life alone is centred in Himself and obtained by those who believe. Is that correct?
JT It is the teaching of the chapter and, therefore, verse 27, as we already remarked, introduces the main thought: “Work not for the food which perishes, but for the food which abides unto life eternal, which the Son of man shall give to you; for him has the Father sealed, even God”. He had come down from heaven. So that the chapter henceforth is taken up with that line of truth, that He had come down from heaven; not simply that He had come down, but He comes down. It is a characteristic thought as well as an historical thought.
AAT What would you say this sealing was?
JT The sealing refers to the Spirit; what happened at the Jordan when He was baptised. All this was in mind; many other things, too, but the Lord is bringing it in here in relation to this matter of food.
[p. 365] He operates by the Spirit. He is setting out the thought in this food — the Father is brought into it, and the Spirit is brought into it. He quickens. But the Spirit in Jesus, as sealed by the Father, is the Spirit as operative; that is, the Spirit in Him as serving in this way.
JTJr “For him ...” is to bring the Person before us. The structure is peculiar. It might be said, The Father has sealed him. That is true also, but is it put in this way, “For him has the Father sealed”, to emphasise the Son of man as in charge of all this of which He is speaking?
JT Just so. The stress is on Him; that is, that Person, the Son of man. So that He is here to serve, and make God’s mind effective. The great matter of food was in His mind, the food which abides unto life eternal; the bread of God — He who comes down out of heaven and gives life to the world. There are other designations of the bread, but this has the world in mind; not the world in a moral, evil sense; but not Judaism. It is a wider thought. It is the whole world including men generally that is contemplated in the bread of God. The word ‘world’ has to be looked at in this character here.
SF The blood is usually for God, is it not? In what way do we drink the Lord’s blood?
JT [p. 366] It is not for God here. It is for us. It is for our appropriation; and the Lord says it is drink indeed. Now, drinking is spoken of as regards the Spirit in John 4 and John 7; but here it is the blood of Jesus. The blood of the Son of man is the drink; a matter that we have to understand. It is to be regarded as separated from the flesh, so that it is evidently a dead Christ that is in mind to be fed upon. The blood is separated from the body, as John says. He saw what followed the action of the soldier’s spear. Blood and water came out; but it is just the blood here with the flesh.
TEH That is not for refreshment. It is food.
CAM Would you say the blood is not viewed here as connected in any way with atonement? Is it connected with the new order of man?
JT For food; just so. You have to stop and think. “How can he give us this flesh to eat?” (verse 52). The natural mind cannot penetrate what is meant. It is one of the most profound chapters, and being a long chapter, and the references to food being so frequent, it requires thoughtfulness. Therefore, Peter, at the end says, “thou hast words of life eternal” (verse 68): words; truth broken up into detail.
AC-r Would Daniel be an example for us? He purposed in his heart not to eat the delicacies of the king’s table, but ate pulse, so that God showed him mercy.
JT Yes. He and his companions were fairer and fatter than the youths that ate of the king’s delicate food. Daniel was a man of purpose. He purposed in his heart as to the matter, and that is the point here — whether we can face this chapter with purpose. You understand this food and appropriate it and nothing else; it will give us a constitution and an appearance in our countenances that no other food can effect.
ABP Does the Son of man in death, being food for us, represent the ultimate in the fulfilment of the will of God?
JT Yes. The idea of being raised up in the last day enters into all this, it is mentioned four times. Whatever accrues from the many vicissitudes of the dispensation, those who do God’s will go through. We are to be raised up in the last day; but we are to be raised up as those who have constitutions resultant from the food spoken of in this chapter. Daniel helps us there; he purposed in his heart and adhered to it; and at the end, the word to him is, “Thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days”, Daniel 12: 13. That is a point that runs [p. 367] through Daniel. In spite of all the vicissitudes of the history, Daniel will stand in his lot at the end. Terrible things, depicted in the book, are to be gone through but the wise understand and triumph. “And they that are wise shall shine as the brightness of the expanse; and they that turn the many to righteousness as the stars, for ever and ever”, Daniel 12: 3.
ANW So far as the life of the world is concerned, according to the Lord’s statement, that is secured by the giving of His flesh. Why is that accomplished by that without reference to the blood?
JT Well, it implies the Lord’s death. The Lord’s supper has two features, and generally in this chapter the Lord’s death is conveyed in His flesh and blood. It is a question of the context, and how language is used. “For the bread of God is he who comes down out of heaven and gives life to the world”. It is that side of it. It would not exclude the idea of the blood, because the Lord says in verse 53, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, Unless ye shall have eaten the flesh of the Son of man, and drunk his blood, ye have no life in yourselves. He that eats my flesh and drinks my blood has life eternal, and I will raise him up at the last day: for my flesh is truly food and my blood is truly drink. He that eats my flesh and drinks my blood dwells in me and I in him”. And then, “As the living Father has sent me and I live on account of the Father, he also who eats me shall live also on account of me” (verse 57). The teaching is progressive. “He also who eats me” — that would be appropriation of Christ in life as He is now, whereas earlier the food is a dead Christ. But eating Him would seem to point to what He is now. “This is the bread which has come down out of heaven” (verse 58). And so the eating or appropriation of the Person and living by Him would point to His present condition.
HB In Joshua 5, after Israel crossed the Jordan [p. 368] and ate the passover, they ate unleavened bread and roast corn. Does that fit in, in principle, with this?
JT Well, it would point to a heavenly food: the food of the land; the old corn. But it was after they had crossed the Jordan. The food provided before crossing the Jordan is called victuals, alluding spiritually to strong meat that would be required to go through death, but what you allude to would be in the land itself; the growth of the land.
CAM Eternal life really belongs to the land. I was wondering whether it would be right to go back for a moment to the thought of the passover. It is mentioned in verse 4. Then we have the Lord walking on the sea, indicating that another world is in mind.
JT He was taking an administrative position. He went up, it is said. The passover here is just a religious reference; not more than that. The first part of the chapter really is dealing with the state of the disciples, what their minds were on. And as we proceed, the Lord goes up. The feeding is a sign. It is one of the signs in this gospel. What is in the Lord’s mind in it is developed after verse 27; but what precedes includes His going up. It is said in verse 14, “The men therefore, having seen the sign which Jesus had done, said, This is truly the prophet which is coming into the world. Jesus therefore knowing that they were going to come and seize him” (showing their mind was still natural) “that they might make him king, departed again to the mountain himself alone”. This is typical. The sign refers to power; what power He had to provide food. But when they tried to use Him on natural lines He departed to a mountain alone. “But when evening was come, his disciples went down to the sea, and having gone on board ship, they went over the sea to Capernaum. And it had already become dark, and Jesus had not come to them, and the sea was agitated by a strong wind blowing. Having rowed then about [p. 369] twenty-five or thirty stadia, they see Jesus walking on the sea” (verses 16 - 19). This is all typical. He will not be made king. He is not going to submit to their natural minds at all. He is setting up another system, and He goes up to the mountain as a type of His present position on high. But then He comes down and is walking on the water. It is another world really, but it is in relation to a sign; that there is power in Him to carry us through. All this is in view of making way in the minds of the disciples for this food that the Son of man would give them. So that the whole of the chapter is dealing with this one thought — the food — only there is progressive teaching until we come to the idea of eating Him; eating the Lord Himself, not in the dual sense of blood and flesh, but Himself as food.
FNW Would it be right to say there are three general foods in this progression: the literal food furnished miraculously, which may be connected with the wilderness; the eating of His flesh and drinking His blood; and finally this Me that you referred to?
JT Yes. Food is thus stressed throughout. The Son of man, as sealed, is to bring us into all this; He is designated as the Bread of God.
AR You would not link this with the Supper?
JT No, it is food in view of life. Of course, there is food in the Lord’s supper, but this is a chapter by itself, fitting into the teaching of John as to eternal life. That is the point in it: “thou hast words of life eternal” (verse 68).
APT Would the details of the chapter indicate there is a good deal to be overcome to get this food — the ignorance of the disciples; the crowd seeking to make the Lord king; the Jews murmuring and others turning back?
JT I am sure that is important to bear in mind. The subject begins with physical food, but that is a [p. 370] sign, and a sign involves power. It is not called a miracle. It is power in the sense of what is in mind in this book. The signs are “that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing ye might have life in his name”, John 20: 31.
JTJr Do you think there might be a tendency to take on the Lord in this way, as these tried to take Him and make Him king? It is a natural kind of thing; taking on the Lord in a natural way. He shuts that out completely.
JT In view of such teaching, you are challenged as to how much you have to overcome in your mind; how much you are ready for, and how much you are not ready for. The very motives that underlie our being have to be looked into.
ABP The Lord saying, “I am the bread of life” (verse 35), and again, “I am the bread ...” (verse 41), would suggest that there is more than what He was in humiliation? Does what He is in His own Person enter into it?
JT It must. When He says, “I am”, who He is must enter into it. So that if we run through here, we have “the bread of God” (verse 33); that is for the world. That is to say, it is not for Judaism; it is for the world. As John says in his epistle, “He is the propitiation for our sins; but not for ours alone, but also for the whole world”, 1 John 2: 2. And then, verse 35, “Jesus said to them, I am the bread of life he that comes to me shall never hunger”. And, verse 40, “For this is the will of my Father, that every one who sees the Son, and believes on him, should have life eternal”. Now we have a dual thought here: “every one who sees the Son, and believes on him, should have life eternal, and I will raise him up at the last day”. And, verse 46, “Not that any one has seen the Father, except he who is of God, he has seen the Father. Verily, verily, I say to you, He that believes on me has life eternal. I am the bread of life”. It is [p. 371] a simple but great fact that the person who believes, as the Lord says, has life eternal. The link there is with faith. Again, verse 50, “This is the bread which comes down out of heaven”. Not that has come down, but which comes down. It is characteristic of it that it comes down “that one may eat of it and not die”. Then, verse 51, “I am the living bread which has come down”. This is historical — which has come down. The sequence is, “if any one shall have eaten of this bread he shall live for ever; but the bread withal which I shall give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world”. That is His side of it. It is not the bread of God here, but what Christ does for the world. And then verse 53 says, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, Unless ye shall have eaten the flesh of the Son of man, and drunk his blood, ye have no life in yourselves”. That shuts out Judaism. They were not appropriating the Son of man. They were rejecting Him. Then verse 54 says, “He that eats my flesh and drinks my blood has life eternal”; and added to this is the final reference in the chapter to the believer being raised up at the last day. And then in verse 55 the Lord says, “... for my flesh is truly food and my blood is truly drink”. And, verse 56, “He that eats my flesh and drinks my blood dwells in me and I in him”. So that we have a basis here, in coming to dwell in Him, for our heavenly relations. Dwelling in Him involves that He is alive, as He is now. And then in verse 57, “As the living Father has sent me and I live on account of the Father, he also who eats me shall live also on account of me”. That evidently is Christ above, so that it is progressive teaching. Verse 58 says, “This is the bread which has come down out of heaven. Not as the fathers ate and died: he that eats this bread shall live for ever”.
Well, that is the wondrous record of John 6, and it should affect us profoundly. Anyone, if he looks into it, will see the frequency of the references to divine [p. 372] food, and the result of appropriating it, which is life; eternal life.
AR Verse 54 says, “I will raise him up at the last day” whereas in verse 58 it is, “live for ever”. There is no dying at all in verse 58.
JT Quite so. We will get that in chapter 11 later on. “Every one who lives and believes on me shall never die” (verse 26). This is leading up to that. When Peter answers the Lord in the end of the chapter, “thou hast words of eternal life”; he is alluding to what we have throughout the chapter some ten or more references to this great matter of food and life.
DP Is the Lord presenting Himself here as occupying the whole position? He in His Person incorporates everything: eternal life and food and whatever is needed by us.
JT Just so. That is how your mind will be impressed as you proceed. Christ is everything and in all. But then immediately we have, after all this, in verse 60, “Many therefore of his disciples having heard it said, This word is hard”. It is the natural mind; really, the Jewish mind, and we have to be on our guard as to it. A hard mind is incapable of being impressed by spiritual things: “This word is hard; who can hear it?” they say. “But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples murmur concerning this, said to them, Does this offend you? If then ye see the Son of man ascending up where he was before?” That is the question; the Son of man was now ascending; He had the heavenly side of things in mind. It is the Spirit, He says, which quickens. As to the heavenly side, we are wholly dependent upon the Spirit. “The flesh profits nothing: the words which I have spoken unto you are spirit and are life”. How we are challenged right through! These murmurers just bring out what is going on in our hearts if we allow the natural mind in these things.
AR “But there are some of you who do not believe” (verse 64). The Lord knew who was there.
ANW Is there any higher thought of food in the chapter than in verse 57?
JT “As the living Father has sent me and I live on account of the Father, he also who eats me shall live also on account of me”. That is the highest thought of life in the chapter, I would say. That is the position now.
CAM Referring to verse 62 which is in the form of an unanswered question, do you think that we need verse 57 to understand it?
JT Just so. You are living by Him. But verse 63 is needed. The Spirit, which is mentioned there only in the chapter, furnishes light as to Christ in heaven. This great truth is enlarged on in chapters 14 - 16. He is introduced here as essential to the subject of chapter 6.
ANW He has gone beyond human range in verse 62, has He not?
JT He has not, however, gone beyond the range of faith, because living by Him implies that He is within our range in a spiritual sense. The remaining part of the book opens up what develops in the coming in of the Spirit. The Spirit is sent to abide with us for ever; by Him we have part in all this.
ANW When He says, “... where he was before?” what does that convey to you?
JT It is the place He is going to take now as Man, I think. “Where he was before” is the general thought of heaven. In chapter 3 He says, “And no one has gone up into heaven, save he who came down out of heaven, the Son of man who is in heaven” (verse 13). That is inscrutable, but it implies that He is available. It opens up Paul’s doctrine. And chapter 14, from verse 15 onward, opens up the truth of the Spirit. The Spirit is the medium by which we are in relation with divine Persons; the Father and the [p. 374] Son, and how they come to us too. So that I think verse 57 opens up christianity. “As the living Father has sent me and I live on account of the Father, he also who eats me shall live also on account of me”. That is christianity.
CAM What you said about verse 62 is very interesting. You connect it with the Lord’s actual going up and they seeing Him?
JT Yes. They saw Him go up.
CAM The disciples in verse 61 would be truly disciples; at least some of them.
JT Well, they are just designated in that way, but some of them were going back.
CAM But what you said made me think that among those disciples there must really have been those that did see Him go up.
JT Well, in chapter 8 the Lord says, “The truth shall set you free” (verse 32). And then, “If therefore the Son shall set you free, ye shall be really free” (verse 36). That would imply there were some there that were genuine, and some here were genuine, but some were not. The teaching, however, proceeds on to what we were speaking of as christianity, for the Lord says in verse 63: “It is the Spirit which quickens, the flesh profits nothing”. Those of us who profess to be disciples have to come to this, that the flesh profits nothing. And the Lord adds, “The words which I have spoken unto you are spirit and are life”. Christianity itself is embodied in the Lord Jesus. The Spirit was there in Him and the life was in Him, and the disciples were coming into it. Chapter 14 shows they were coming into it, and the Spirit would be with them for ever.
APT In Acts 7 Stephen says, “Lo, I behold the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing at the right hand of God” (verse 56). That is a wonderful view, is [p. 375] it not?
JT Just so. It confirms what we remarked as to verse 62. There is one who sees Him. Stephen represents christianity. The Lord has in mind here the parting of the ways with Judaism; that is, those that lived in Judaea and Jerusalem. They were the Jews. But the whole realm of humanity is in view in opening up the way for christianity; what we have today. Stephen represents that. He says, “Lo, I behold the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing at the right hand of God”.
ABP Does Paul’s ministry in Philippians 2: 5 - 11 link on with John 6? It says, “Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus”, and then goes on to the down-stooping; the obedience even unto death; and then the exaltation.
JT Just so. “Wherefore also God highly exalted him” (verse 9). Stephen denotes the break with Judaism. The Lord is setting it aside here in His teaching, but historically it did not happen until Stephen’s time, when the parting of the ways had come and Stephen saw the heavens opened through. It is much like the epistle to the Hebrews. Paul wrote that epistle, no doubt, and it opens up what Stephen saw. We are told there, “We see Jesus ... crowned with glory and honour”, Hebrews 2: 9. That is christianity.
AAT That is introduced in John 20 where the Lord says to Mary Magdalene, “I ascend”.
JT Just so. This leads up to that, where we have a message preparing us for christianity: “Go to my brethren and say to them, I ascend to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God” (verse 17). That is one of John’s great messages. Others are in his epistles. The first is, “And this is the message which we have heard from him, and declare to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all”, 1 John 1: 5. Another message is, “For this is the message which ye have heard from [p. 376] the beginning, that we should love one another”, 1 John 3: 11. It involves christianity that we love one another, because it is the very life of heaven. Eternal life implies that the brethren love one another. It is a direct message to us.
Well, our remarks as to John 6 led us to verse 63, “It is the Spirit which quickens, the flesh profits nothing”. That throws out much of the public profession. The whole sacerdotal system is contrary to the mind of God and should be so regarded by true christians. The flesh profits nothing; it is the Spirit that quickens. Christianity is spiritual. It is what the Spirit effects in us. And then the Lord goes on, “But there are some of you who do not believe. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would deliver him up. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no one can come to me unless it be given to him from the Father”. That is sovereignty. Whatever I may do or think, I cannot come into all this except the Father draw me. I am dependent on the work of God in my soul to draw me to Christ. Then the Spirit says, “From that time many of his disciples went away back and walked no more with him”. This is the parting of the ways I have just been speaking of, which occurred at the death of Stephen. Judaism was being left and the heavenly side was being opened up. Well, then the Lord says, “Will ye also go away? Simon Peter answered him. Lord, to whom shall we go?” That is the conclusion. There is nothing else to do. You might put Luther’s remark in there: ‘I can do no other’. The Lord has the words of eternal life. We can but stay with Him. And so Peter goes on, “Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast words of life eternal; and we have believed and known that thou art the holy one of God”. This is a priestly touch. (I am reading from the New Translation.) “The holy one of God” is an allusion [p. 377] to priesthood. The Lord is going to set up a new system and be Priest in it.
AR Those who did not go away would be with Him.
JT Quite so. We can but stay. Some are going away. It is most distressing how many delinquents there have been, but God is turning the tide.
APT “No murderer has eternal life abiding in him”, 1 John 3: 15. Would Judas Iscariote be like that here?
JT That is just the setting. The Lord is not letting Judas off. He mentions the word ‘twelve’. “Have not I chosen you the twelve?” (verse 70). Judas was included. The Lord then says, in effect, I cannot let him off. He calls him a devil. The Lord says these words in a wonderful setting, a heavenly setting, but He says in effect, ‘I cannot let Judas into that; I must bring out who he is’. It shows how the crisis has come; the parting of the ways; so that even Judas, one that is numbered with the twelve, is called a devil. He is not allowed to go unexposed. There is no hope of anyone escaping exposure who is not true; this chapter is to bring out true people.
TEH Was Elisha a man that had the power of this truth in his soul when he resisted the unbelief of the sons of the prophets in regard of Elijah’s going up? They went and searched for him three days, but Elisha already had forbidden them to search for him. The evil of the natural mind would deny the ascension of Elijah.
JT They were “valiant men” too. “Let them go, we pray thee, and seek thy master”, they said to Elisha; 2 Kings 2: 16.
SF Peter says, “We have believed and known”. Is that the right order of knowing these things?
JT Yes. That is what runs through the chapter. The work of God is proceeding all the time, and these whom Peter represents had believed and known. It [p. 378] was a regular formative work that had proceeded in them. There is no revelation here. This corresponds with Matthew 16, where the Father’s revelation is brought in, but that is left out here. It is not a question of revelation; it is a question of progressive knowledge through teaching and being in the company of the Lord.
ANW Judas could never say that.
JT He really had no part nor lot in the matter. How terribly solemn that is, that one might go on nominally with the brethren and yet have neither part nor lot in the matter, as Peter said to Simon!
ABP There seems to be distinction between the operations of divine Persons in the saints. There is reference to what the Father Himself does, and what the Son does. Is that not seen in the revelation which Peter received from the Father? The Lord said that the Father had given it to Peter, but then He gives him further light as to the assembly. Would you open up, a little, the distinctive work of divine Persons?
JT There is a difference between a revelation and progressive knowledge; increase in the knowledge of God. Revelation is introduced in Matthew. It probably happened at the same time as did the events recorded here. Instead of a revelation here, it is what Peter had already acquired through faith and knowledge. “We have believed and known”. It was through faith and in keeping company with the Lord, experiencing what He did and said.
TEH Can you have the one without the other?
JT The revelation is by itself. We ought not to be strangers to revelation, nor should we be strangers to this idea of progressive knowledge of God through experience and teaching. Revelation is contemplated in 1 Corinthians 14: “If there be a revelation to another sitting there, let the first be silent” (verse 30);
[p. 379] but barring the idea of a revelation, there is no change; the brother who is speaking continues his word. The revelation is made room for, as if it is supreme in these circumstances.
GVD If the beginning of this progression is work, why is the conclusion of it linked up with sovereignty?
JT It shows how features of the truth work together. The sovereignty of God is a great subject. God says to Elijah, “Yet I have left myself seven thousand in Israel”, 1 Kings 19: 18.
AR Should we not be able to differentiate between the operation of divine Persons in our souls, the Father and the Son and the Spirit?
JT It is not easy to say much, but clearly the three Persons are to be apprehended severally. They all quicken. The Father quickens, and the Son quickens, and the Spirit quickens, and it is a question of spiritual discernment and understanding as to whether I can tell if the operation is by the Father or by the Son or by the Spirit.
APT In Genesis 24, Rebecca is led by Abraham’s servant until she comes in contact with Isaac.
JT Abraham is a type of the Father and the servant is a type of the Spirit and Isaac is a type of the Son. The servant is never named in Genesis 24. He is named in Genesis 15; he is Eliezer of Damascus, but he is not named in chapter 24, because it is the Spirit that is in mind. He speaks about Abraham as his master at the beginning of the chapter, but he speaks about Isaac as his master at the end of it.
AR Does the Holy Spirit give us help as regards the Father and the Son?
JT Quite so. I believe we have to keep the Spirit in our minds all through that wonderful chapter; Genesis 24.
ABP Is there a clue in Matthew 16 in that [p. 380] the revelation which the Father had given to Peter was concerning the Son?
JT Quite so. The Son began to speak of the Father immediately.
DP What does the apostle mean by saying that God had revealed His Son in him?
JT It is different from Matthew 16. The Lord does not say to Peter, ‘the Father has revealed Me in you’. He says, “Flesh and blood has not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in the heavens”. And then He adds, “And I also, I say unto thee that thou art Peter” (verses 17, 18). That is, the Lord is speaking about Peter as the material; and, further, He speaks about Himself as the Builder. Now Paul says of himself, “God ... was pleased to reveal his Son in me, that I may announce him as glad tidings”, Galatians 1: 16. It is another line of things. It would involve Paul’s affections. In that same section he says of the Lord, “... who has loved me and given himself for me”, Galatians 2: 20. I believe Paul’s affections are involved in the expression, “reveal his Son in me”.
WWM In relation to what Peter says here, “We have believed and known” — such knowledge is spoken of in Proverbs 8: “the knowledge which cometh of reflection”. It is by contemplation and reflection that we come into that knowledge.
JT That would fit here. It is not a question of a revelation here. It is knowledge that comes from reflection and general exercise in nearness to the Lord.