THE LIFE WHICH IS IN CHRIST JESUS (6)

^[p. 82] THE LIFE WHICH IS IN CHRIST JESUS (6)

Revelation 2: 7, 10; Revelation 4: 6 - 11

JT It is thought that the feature of the general subject before us, suggested in the “living creatures”, as mentioned in Revelation 4, connects with our last reading in which we considered life in Colossians and Ephesians; that is, quickening in both these epistles, as qualifying us for the service of God and association with Christ in life. Hezekiah was alluded to because he speaks of the living praising God. It is believed that what has already been said on the subject of life will be augmented by looking at these scriptures in Revelation, enabling us to carry on the service of God in the midst of apostate conditions. The thought of life runs through the whole book. The Lord introduces Himself to John as the living One who became dead and is alive for evermore. The tree of life is a sort of main sub-division of our subject today. It is found in chapter 2 and in chapter 22.

We should begin with the tree of life as suggestive of life according to the purpose of God. It is not simply to meet conditions here. It was a divine thought before sin came into the world and will remain after sin is dealt with — put away from the universe; for it seems to be always connected with its own proper environment: the garden in Genesis 2 and the heavenly city in Revelation.

APT Primarily, there was no prohibition on the tree of life, was there?

JT No. Prohibition was first on the tree of the knowledge of good and evil only.

ABP There is no suggestion of diversified fruits in Genesis. Would you consider the twelve fruits in Revelation 22: 2 as resulting from what has transpired between Genesis and ^[p. 83] Revelation?

JT Yes; the idea of administration enters into them. The twelve fruits seem to be a millennial connection.

ANW Does the position of the tree in the midst of the garden denote that it dominates the situation?

JT Yes. It is said to be “in the paradise of God” in Revelation 2 and in chapter 22 it says, “In the midst of its street, and of the river, on this side and on that side, the tree of life” (verse 2), as if it were in a dominating position throughout. It would be Christ as the expression of life, made available to us in the sense of growth. The meaning of its central position is very obvious.

AB How do you understand that verse you quoted from chapter 22: “In the midst of its street, and of the river, on this side and on that side, the tree of life”?

JT Well, it seems to bear out what has just been remarked, that it is available centrally. In the midst of its street would be where activity was. The tree of life is available to all in the heavenly city, where all is in accord with itself. It is there dominantly and profusely.

AR Is there not something significant in the fact that this is the reward for the overcomer in Ephesus? The Lord says to the assembly there, “Remember therefore whence thou art fallen”. In spite of the departure the overcomer can be maintained in his heavenly calling.

JT Yes. In declining conditions we have this available to us, corresponding with other things that are available in these last days, the greatest thing being the service of God.

AR So that being disassociated from what is the way of departure, the overcomer can carry on, can he not?

JT Yes. In Thyatira there is a change in the position of the overcomer; in the address to that ^[p. 84] assembly he is mentioned before the words, “He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies”, whereas in our verse those words are placed before the reference to the overcomer. The obvious meaning of this is that in the earlier assemblies the decline was not so extended as it became in Thyatira and those that followed. Things became worse in Thyatira and onwards, but the decline began in Ephesus. The suggestion is, however, that in the first three assemblies there was more readiness to hear the Spirit than there was in the later ones. It is clear also that the best things were available to the overcomer in Ephesus.

AAT This was not held out to the assembly?

JT No; there is nothing promised, in this book, to the assembly viewed as having failed as responsible on the earth. What is presented in Revelation, as blessed and abiding, is the assembly from the standpoint of purpose; it comes down from God out of heaven. The public responsible body is spued out of the Lord’s mouth. But the assembly as come down from God out of heaven is what comes in at the end; things are all secured to the overcomer.

AB Is there something in the fact that each of the addresses is given to the angel of the assembly?

JT Yes; the responsible element, representative of the assembly in each place mentioned, is addressed. “The seven stars are angels of the seven assemblies”, chapter 1: 20. The angels would be representation, as in Matthew 18: 10. The word has also the sense of messengers. Although the assembly had failed, it still was responsible; but in Thyatira and afterwards, it is a remnant: “to you I say, the rest who are in Thyatira”. A remnant is formally addressed there.

AR Would paradise anticipate manhood? “I know a man in Christ” (2 Corinthians 12: 2). Paul says when speaking about being in paradise.

JT Just so. That testimony was brought into ^[p. 85] the assembly at Corinth. He does not tell us what he heard. The thief also went there, so that the testimony of paradise was already in the assembly. The allusion to it is thus intelligible; it is the paradise of God. It is not something that God provides to meet conditions brought in by sin, but what He had in His mind before sin came in; so that what we are coming into eternally according to purpose is not an afterthought. It is not something brought in to meet conditions here, but to answer to the purpose of God — the purpose of His love. It is a question of His love; what His love will do for us. In the epistle to the Ephesians we read, “because of his great love wherewith he loved us (we too being dead in offences), has quickened us with the Christ (ye are saved by grace), and has raised us up together, and has made us sit down together in the heavenlies”, chapter 2: 4 - 6. All that is a question of the working out of His own love, and I think we have to take the tree of life in that connection; in its own environment. As in Eden it was barred to man; but the great thought remains — now found in another condition altogether. It is above; Paul was caught up there.

HB “To him that overcomes” would link with John 14: 23? “If any one love me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our abode with him”.

JT “We will come to him and make our abode with him” is a provisional position here, based on our love for Christ and keeping His commandments. But the paradise of God is primary. It is included in His thoughts and purposes that were interfered with by the incoming of sin, but redemption having taken place, it comes to light again. It is not a new thing brought in to meet sinful conditions. Those conditions are dealt with otherwise, so that paradise should again become available to man. Hence the Lord speaks of it to the thief as available ^[p. 86] to him.

ANW Would you go so far as to say that the paradise of God would be prior to Genesis 2?

JT Genesis 2 brings out what He had in His mind, and sin interrupted. And hence the long years of conflict; and that completed, there is a recurrence of the primary thought.

JS Is that consequent upon redemption accomplished?

JT It is not presented exactly as the fruit of redemption; it was there, and redemption became a necessity because of the interruption that came in by the serpent. Eternal life stands in that connection; eternal life is over against what came in; that is death.

JS The primary thought is recovered.

JT It never was lost. Man was driven out of it; and the cherubim were set at the garden to guard the way to the tree of life. It appears in heaven.

AAT Paul was caught up to the third heaven and also to paradise. Is there a distinction?

JT There are two thoughts in 2 Corinthians 12; the first is “to (as far as) the third heaven”. That is a question of altitude. The other is “into” — not the third heaven, but paradise. I suppose God intended that Paul should have that experience to bring into the assembly economy.

AR Was the tree of life in Genesis linked up with time and the earth; and is the tree of life referred to in Revelation 2, linked with a condition prior to time?

JT That is what I was saying. It is Ephesian truth, being spoken of to an overcomer at Ephesus. Thus it would be intelligible to him. The epistle to Ephesus does not exactly meet conditions resulting from sin; it is a question of the purpose of God. It is said to that assembly that God has “blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenlies in Christ”, Ephesians 1: 3. That word ‘every’ is most comprehensive. It is not simply blessings coincidental to ^[p. 87] the meeting of the question of sin, but whatever God had in His mind. It is a question of His great love, and not simply that it is attested by the gift of Christ, but by His purpose as to us being accomplished. His great love is that He has quickened us with Christ and has raised us up together and made us sit down together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus. In the beginning of the epistle the apostle says, “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenlies in Christ; according as he has chosen us in him before the world’s foundation, that we should be holy and blameless before him in love; having marked us out beforehand for adoption through Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he has taken us into favour in the Beloved”, Ephesians 1: 3 - 6. There is nothing there about redemption. The primary thoughts of God are in mind. They are always in mind, but sin interrupted them. Of course, this was foreknown, and hence redemption must come in; and so we have immediately, “in whom we have redemption” (verse 7). And so the paradise of God is placed on an infinitely higher level in Revelation than it is in Genesis. But Revelation 2: 7 clearly alludes to Genesis 2 and hence we have the link with the purpose of God before sin came in with the accomplishment of that purpose in the eternity to come.

ANW What do you understand to be involved in the possibility of man stretching out his hand and taking of the tree of life?

JT It is God’s way of showing what a catastrophe it would be. God effectively prevented it. His great blessings were not for man in his sinful condition. What an awful situation would ensue if sinful man were to live for ever as he was! And the suggestion is that it would be the result of the tree of life left ^[p. 88] unprotected. But it was not left exposed to the action of man’s hand. It is as if God would show that a crisis may occur in His affairs and how effectively He can meet it. The wording in Genesis 3: 22 - 24 indicates feeling in God Himself.

LH Would the tree of life involve the new order of man in Christ?

JT It would; that is, as seen in 2 Corinthians 5: 17, 18: “if any one be in Christ, there is a new creation; the old things have passed away; behold all things have become new”. But life as presented in Romans and developed generally in Scripture is to meet conditions effected in this world by sin. Of course, viewed thus it is positive blessing, promised by God and available to man through redemption. It involves the victory of God in a scene of death. In view of darkness and death, life is introduced in John’s gospel as in Christ as “the light of men”, chapter 1: 4. It was active in overcoming death, and in Him, redemption having taken place, it became a fixed order of things to be laid hold of and enjoyed by the saints, through faith, in the power of the Spirit. In this sense the believer has it even as in his condition in the wilderness. This would merge or link with the tree of life. But the tree of life is presented as special and always in its own environment — in the paradise of God or in the heavenly city. The paradise of God implies more than the tree of life, but it is replete with life. The tree of life, although in the city, is seen as affecting the millennial earth, but only through its leaves. The fruit is for the heavenly saints of the city.

WWM In Ephesians the saints are said to be “holy and blameless before him in love”, and in Corinthians we read of certain things “which God has prepared for them that love him”, 1 Corinthians 2: 9. Would these facts enter into the thought of the paradise of God and the tree ^[p. 89] of life?

JT Yes. The immense importance of love is stressed; in the passages you quote, love in the saints — of course, in answer to God’s love. Even before sin entered there was no one before Him in love in the garden of Eden. And after sin entered, no one was admitted. The cherubim kept the way of the tree of life until Christ died, rose and ascended to heaven. Even while He was here, no one was admitted; it was life in testimony — not the idea of the paradise of God; the paradise of God implies that life is there. It is replete with life, but there are other features of Christ besides life.

AAT When Paul was in paradise he heard unspeakable things. Is that a hint as to what is in paradise?

JT “I know such a man, (whether in the body or out of the body I know not, God knows;) that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable things said which it is not allowed to man to utter”, 2 Corinthians 12: 3, 4. There is allusion to what is beyond anything known hitherto by men. The apostle speaks of “the exceeding greatness of the revelations”. They would evidently have exceeded what was given him for practical ministry. They were intended to impress him so as to affect him in his service. He kept what he heard fourteen years, but was he not impressed? Was there not something about him exceeding any other man on earth? He was, so to speak, a paradise man — one who had access there.

Ques Do you connect that with Peter’s ecstasy; Acts 10?

JT Well, it is another matter. Peter went up so pray and became in an ecstasy. There is no suggestion of an ascent; it is a state. The vessel descended to him. But Paul says expressly that he was caught up into paradise.

AB He says in that chapter, “Of such a one I will boast, but of myself I will not boast”. Is there ^[p. 90] something in the fact that in the word to Ephesus, the Lord says, “Remember therefore whence thou art fallen”?

JT That is an allusion to moral descent. It is said to the Ephesians that God “has raised us up together, and has made us sit down together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus”. That is the general position of the assembly as viewed in the epistle to the Ephesians.

ABP Will you explain what is the process by which life is produced and made available as fruit?

JT I think that is the tree accommodating itself to conditions here. The healing of the nations is only a provisional thought. The monthly yield of the tree clearly relates to time. It shows divine adaptability to conditions. But what do you say yourself?

ABP The production of fruit must have a bearing upon the creature; life being brought into such a form, or character, that it is available to the creature. Life certainly existed before creation, but probably in a character which could hardly be described as a tree of life.

JT The idea of the tree is clearly to make things available to us and make things intelligible. There is no indication that the fruit is available to any outside the city; the leaves only are used outside. Therefore the bearing is millennial. But chapter 2 is the full thought of the tree; “the tree of life which is in the paradise of God”. It is not only the tree of life, but where it is — its own proper environment. So that even the twelve fruits seem to be all for the inhabitants of the city, but in relation to the millennium, because in Revelation the city is seen in that relation. It has come down to influence things here below. No doubt we shall need this kind of fruit to maintain heavenly distinction, very much corresponding to the old corn of the land. It is indigenous to the land, remarkably ^[p. 91] introduced in Joshua as the people entered Canaan. It is all to bring out the greatness of the heavenly. And whilst the tree of life stands related to the earth in the millennial day, generally it denotes eternal conditions.

ABP In life, there must be that which is beyond what we can comprehend, in that God lived before He moved in relation to creation.

JT Yes. In John’s gospel life is presented in Christ in relation to men. According to the original wording the light of it is for them only. The testimony of life as over against darkness is stated. The tree of life is presented in Scripture as existing before darkness entered. Life had its origin in God. This is witnessed in Genesis 1 where it is referred to in its forms known on earth. The gospel, as already said, speaks of it as in Christ, but only in relation to men. Thus it is brought within man’s range of understanding. Still, its source is in God and hence it is infinite in its bearing. But we cannot conclude from this fact that paradise is the place of the existence and enjoyment of divine Persons, for God dwells in unapproachable light; whom no man has seen nor is able to see. Paradise, in which the tree of life is seen, clearly has man in view. God has His part in it, but in relation to man. It seems the tree of life should not be detached from it. We should, I think, always regard the tree as “the tree of life which is in the paradise of God”. Its fruit is the best available to the overcomer in Ephesus. The apostasy had not fully developed; the public body was still owned of God, but in decline, and hence the need of overcoming. The overcomer would not be deprived of the very best things the assembly had from Paul’s ministry. I think that is what was meant.

AR So that as touching eternal conditions, appropriation of such food is the great thought; you are sustained in the sphere of ^[p. 92] it.

JT Yes. It is to be eaten — if the tree is valued it will be appropriated. The word ‘eat’ implies appropriation. Our great weakness generally arises from non-appropriation of food presented to us. We take things in intellectually, but we do not assimilate them. One of the most important sides of the truth is eating, as taught in John 6. The best things of God are opened up to us and we must make them our own, causing them to enter into our constitutions so as to give character to us.

FNW Why is the tree of life introduced in addition to our having the Holy Spirit?

JT It is to bring out what had been available in Ephesus, and that in spite of the decline that had set in this was still there for the overcomer — the very best things God has for us. Paul had announced to them “all the counsel of God”, Acts 20: 27.

ANW Do you identify the tree of life with Christ personally exclusively, or is there any way in which the assembly shares?

JT It is a figure, but clearly alluding to Christ as the source of life, making it available to man. Failure in the general position does not prevent its availability to the overcomer. In contrast Adam’s sin excluded him from the tree of life in Eden. Revelation 2: 7 is a direct allusion to Genesis 3. The assembly is viewed as the heavenly city; that is where the tree of life is. That is to say, it is life in its own proper environment. Life in Christ come down here in testimony is another matter; it is outside of its own environment. It is here in testimony and we are made to partake of it in testimony, but what the Lord has in mind for the overcomer in Ephesus is that he is to eat of the tree of life in its own environment; that is, the paradise of God. As there, it answers to divine purpose.

LH With regard to paradise in the promise made by the Lord to the malefactor in answer to his request ^[p. 93] to have part in the kingdom: would the malefactor’s thoughts be on an entirely lower level? The Lord introduces what was according to the purpose of God.

JT It was greater than the kingdom, although the Lord did not say the “paradise of God” — just “paradise”.

LH It is “with me” — the tree of life would be in that expression, would it not?

JT Yes; only it would be a provisional matter because the Lord there alludes to His disembodied condition, which also has to be taken account of.

Rem The garden of Eden would be provisional, too; the tree of life was in the midst of the garden, but in Revelation 22 it is in the city. It is a permanent thought.

JT It is in the city, but in availability; that is, “in the midst of its street, and of the river, on this side and on that side”. It is prevalent. It is in a millennial setting only in its own environment.

HB Do you think the eating in chapter 2 is a higher thought than having ‘a right’ to the tree in Revelation 22?

JT Yes; having a right to it is acquired through washing one’s robes, whereas to eat of the tree of life is a reward given by the Lord to an overcomer. The receiver, being an Ephesian, would appreciate such a favour.

JS Does that correspond with John 6?

JT John 6 treats of what has come down here; the Son of man come down from heaven to give life to the world. That is all in view of testimony. The thought before us is the tree of life in the paradise of God, given to an overcomer in the conditions mentioned.

JS Then would Paul be especially marked as a heavenly man on earth after coming back from paradise?

JT Undoubtedly ^[p. 94] that was what was intended — that he should be reflecting what he was presenting in ministry.

CHH The unique experience of the apostle would not be necessary in order for us to avail ourselves of the tree.

JT No. It was special to him because he was a great minister, but he was not only a great minister, but a great man — a great person. He was made greater than he ever was before, in a practical way, after he went to paradise, so that down here amongst the saints he was different. For fourteen years the brethren got the benefit of that.

ABP Would what he says to the elders from Ephesus, in Acts 20, be the practical expression amongst them of what he had partaken of in paradise?

JT I would think so. In affording those who serve Him special advantages, the Lord has in mind that the saints should gain. The five hundred, for instance, to whom the Lord appeared, according to 1 Corinthians 15, would be marked persons. Some of them had fallen asleep when the epistle was written, but others had not. So long as they were here there was a special family testimony in them because they were appeared to as brethren. They would suggest the heavenly calling. Christ is “firstborn among many brethren”, Romans 8: 29. Cephas is not mentioned as representing that, nor James, nor the twelve, nor even Paul; all those were related to the testimony here. But the brethren will go on into the sphere of the purpose of God. They all are called “according to purpose”, to be conformed to the image of God’s Son.

AB Is that why he says, “I have not shrunk from announcing to you all the counsel of God”, Acts 20: 27?

JT Yes; and that would imply that he was representative of it; he would be expressive of it in some way. He was walking “worthy of the calling”, Ephesians 4: 1.

ABP And their sorrow that they would see his face no more would be in keeping with what you were saying?

JT Yes; what a face it must have been!

APT “If any one be in Christ, there is a new creation”, 2 Corinthians 5: 17. Does that synchronise with paradise?

JT Pretty much; but creation, viewed generally, is not as great as paradise. Paradise seems to be reserved as a thought expressing God’s best.

AR Had we lived in early days, we would have been impressed with the idea of apostleship — the dignity and ability to do things through conferred divine authority; but having gotten near to the apostles we would discover that there was a personality in them distinct from and even greater than apostleship. It was the result of divine formation in connection with experience, and that is what we ought to seek after.

JT That is what this food would nourish — the fruit of the tree of life which is in the paradise of God.

ANW Is this the highest of any of the promises to overcomers in the seven assemblies? It is the solitary promise to the overcomer in Ephesus.

JT That to Smyrna is, as faithful unto death, “I will give to thee the crown of life”; and the word to the overcomer in that assembly is, “He ... shall in no wise be injured of the second death”; his circumstances are in relation to death. To the overcomer in Pergamos the Lord gives “of the hidden manna”. That is Christ as once here; also “a white stone, and on the stone a new name written, which no one knows but he that receives it”. Thyatira: “And he that overcomes ... to him will I give authority over the nations”. Sardis: “He that overcomes, he shall be clothed in white garments, and ^[p. 96] I will not blot his name out of the book of life”. Philadelphia: “He that overcomes, him will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more at all out; and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven, from my God, and my new name”. This is to be compared especially with the promise to Ephesus, but it stands more in relation to the service of God; the temple of God and the city of God. Finally, Laodicea: “He that overcomes, to him will I give to sit with me in my throne; as I also have overcome, and have sat down with my Father in his throne”. If we compare, I would say that the promise to the overcomer in the assembly in Philadelphia is the greatest of all. What would be given to the overcomer in Ephesus is great and precious, but it is for himself, for his eternal enjoyment, whereas the overcomer in Philadelphia is completely identified with the temple of Christ’s God, with the name of Christ’s God, with the name of the city of Christ’s God and with Christ’s new name. All this is involved in the heavenly order of things entering into the service of God down here in which the overcoming saints in Philadelphia had faithful part — feebly indeed and as despised, but the Lord will honour them as having maintained the service of His God in the time of His rejection.

Now, in reading in chapter 4 the thought was to consider the living creatures — how life is seen in them protecting, as it were, God and His interests. They are in the midst of the throne and around the throne. “And in the midst of the throne, and around the throne, four living creatures, full of eyes, before and behind; and the first living creature like a lion, and the second living creature like a calf, and the third living creature having the face as of a man, and the fourth living creature like a flying eagle. And the ^[p. 97] four living creatures, each one of them having respectively six wings; round and within they are full of eyes; and they cease not day and night saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, who was, and who is, and who is to come. And when the living creatures shall give glory and honour and thanksgiving to him that sits upon the throne, who lives to the ages of ages, the twenty-four elders shall fall before him that sits upon the throne, and do homage to him that lives to the ages of ages; ^[p. 100] and shall cast their crowns before the throne, saying, Thou art worthy, O our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honour and power; for thou hast created all things, and for thy will they were, and they have been created” (verses 6 - 11). I thought this would be useful to have before us for the idea of living creatures would include ourselves; that is, the saints of God viewed as living, but living in relation to God; not simply for their own enjoyment, but as useful and protective of God, sympathetic with Him in all that He is doing, and making way by intelligent energy for the greater thought of eldership. We have been alluding to it in our prayer: those advanced in years amongst us. The living creatures would represent youthful energy. That is, they are used in the part of the work that may be regarded as subordinate.

WR I suppose we see that in the assembly of the Thessalonians. Paul addresses them as “the assembly of the Thessalonians in God the Father”.

JT Yes; they were in the Father’s affections peculiarly. They were youthful, and in the energy of life, working in faith and labouring in love. They were not self-confident, ready to imitate those who were walking in the ways of God. They became imitators of the assemblies of God in Judea, and they too, became examples. They “became models to all that believe in Macedonia and in Achaia”. So that there was in them a leading on to something ^[p. 98] greater, and that is what I thought we might see. It is not gift, so much, but living persons under the head of four.

AR Would verses 9 and 10 suggest that the service of the elders and living creatures would blend? “And when the living creatures shall give glory and honour and thanksgiving to him that sits upon the throne, who lives to the ages of ages, the twenty-four elders shall fall before him that sits upon the throne, and do homage to him that lives to the ages of ages”. Do you think that this might supplement what we have been saying about the heavenly side — that in the activity of life the youth and the elder are merging in their service?

JT Yes, that runs through the whole book to chapter 19. It shows that God intends that living energy and experience are to mark His service.

JTJr Do you see that in Moses and Joshua? Moses the experienced and aged, and Joshua representing living energy serving in a subordinate sense? It is well to remember, however, that on one important occasion, Joshua’s hearing was defective; Exodus 32: 17, 18.

JT Yes; all this is to work out; we have a sort of preliminary to the things that were to be, that John would write about: the things that come after the assemblies. While this chapter is part of the third section of the book John was to write, the principle in it that we are speaking of enters into the present period. The saints of this dispensation, too, are characterised by eldership and youthfulness. The whole realm of creation is in view in the living creatures, indicated in the symbols employed. That is, the first living creature is like a lion, and the second like a calf, the third has the face as of a man, and the fourth is like a flying eagle. God intends us, as sympathetic with Him in our service, to be conversant with universal conditions — universal features of ^[p. 99] the testimony — because the testimony is marked off as meeting conditions and God contemplates that these are met in living energy. The apostles at the outset were young, also even the Lord Himself and John the baptist. Paul, too, was young. Later, Paul says, “Paul the aged”, and John addressed the saints as “the elder”. These facts we are to understand as to ourselves; and as indicated in these living creatures, we are to have a universal outlook. And it is not simply that we have it in an objective way, but we labour to meet the conditions however far they are from us; we must have the whole position in our minds.

JS Do you think that is why strength, as in the lion, is brought in first?

JT No doubt; the Scriptures would explain to us what each creature means, but one thing is, I am sure, certain, that if we are patterned after these living creatures we would be concerned about the testimony universally, and how it works out in relation to conditions.

HB The flying eagle here represents rapidity?

JT It is life active in that way. Elsewhere we are told that eagles mount up.

JAP Would the eyes within help to keep us in self-judgment so that life is maintained?

JT Well, yes; the living creatures are specially remarkable, as to their eyes. First, it is said they are “full of eyes before and behind”, and verse 8 says, “... round and within they are full of eyes”. In all these we have a remarkable symbol of inward and universal penetrative discernment. “And they cease not day and night saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, who was, and who is, and who is to come”. The living creatures thus honouring Him who sits upon the throne, “the twenty-four elders shall fall before him that sits upon the throne, and do homage to him that lives to the ages of ages,

and shall cast their crowns before the throne, saying, Thou art worthy, O our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honour and power; for thou hast created all things, and for thy will they were, and they have been created”. It is a wonderful scene. It includes the first two chapters of Genesis — the whole creation in relation to God; all for His pleasure.

JTJr Are the crowns brought forward? They cast them before the throne. Do they allude to the experiences the elders have come through, and in which they have been victorious with regard to good and evil?

JT Yes. They are acquired crowns.

FNW The living creatures “cease not day and night saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty”. Would that be an appeal to young christians today, as recognising conditions in which they are, and the sense of the need, being maintained day and night? And behind that is this substantial service to God in the older brethren?

JT Just so; night is made a great deal of in Scripture — “the night seasons” — in which to pray, and the like; in which to be with God.

AR Perhaps the idea of the flying eagle would link on with the scripture you referred to in Isaiah 40 “they that wait upon Jehovah shall renew their strength: they shall mount up with wings as eagles” (verse 31), suggesting persons who pray in the prayer meetings.

JT Yes. I believe God is greatly stressing the prayer meetings, adding on Monday to what we have on the Lord’s days.

ABP Does this fit in with assembly service that the energy and freshness of affection of the younger brothers might find normal outlet in the earlier part of the meeting, and the older and more experienced brothers might reach a higher point than others could at the end of the ^[p. 101] meeting?

JT Well, I never like to see a meeting taking on the character of a choir, where each one takes a set part. Intelligent liberty should mark us; so that while regard for experience and spirituality should have its place, a young brother should be free to take part in the service in any phase of it as he has liberty in his soul as before God.

ABP There sometimes seems to be the feeling on the part of the younger brothers that it is polite to wait upon their elders to take part first, but that kind of thing should not govern us in assembly service.

JT The young ones should be, I believe, a little freer than they are generally, and yet not too active, because, after all, you need the lead as well as the end to be reached.