THE PERSON OF THE FATHER
[p. 222] THE PERSON OF THE FATHER
Rem What has been before us has helped us as to the personal way the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit have been presented. We have looked at the Person of the Son, and intend now to look at the Person of the Father in this chapter, also God; the need being that we should understand the personal way divine Persons come before us, so that our approach to Them should be more intelligent, understanding what is in the Persons themselves.
JT At once we see the Person of the Lord Jesus as distinct from the other two Persons, so that we can see how each Person is to be distinguished, not only in the Scriptures as we read them, but also in the ministry. John 14:15 says, “If ye love me, keep my commandments” and then it says, “And I will beg the Father, and he will give you another Comforter, that he may be with you for ever, the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see him nor know him; but ye know him, for he abides with you, and shall be in you”, (John 14:16,17); so that the Lord Himself is calling attention to Himself and how He will beg the Father for the other Comforter, the Spirit. So you have in mind we would look at the Lord Jesus Himself, and also the Father, and the Spirit, so that each of the three are distinct.
Ques Do you think the term ‘the Father’ calls attention to the Person, not relatively, but in His own blessedness?
JT Yes; the Father is the thought of grace; but then there is also the wonderful place the disciples had, “having loved his own who were in the world”, He loved them “to the end”. So that [p. 223] one is struck with the place the saints have as to Himself.
Ques What would be involved in the departing out of this world to the Father, and lower down, “that he came out from God and was going to God”?
JT It suggests the liberty He took; He could act as He pleased; it is what He was pleased to do. It was not the thought that He was murdered, and the like. The Father is brought into it, so it says, “Now before the feast of the passover, Jesus, knowing that his hour had come that he should depart out of this world to the Father, having loved his own who were in the world, loved them to the end”; there is latitude and liberty seen in the Lord. “And during supper, the devil having already put it into the heart of Judas [son] of Simon, Iscariote, that he should deliver him up, [Jesus], knowing that the Father had given him all things into his hands, and that he came out from God and was going to God”; it is not that He was going to be crucified, but that He “was going to God”, and so He “lays aside his garments”.
Rem May we consider whether the thought of the Father brings in the personal side and whether the Lord and the saints stand in relation to the Father; but also whether the thought of going to God is further; the thought of Deity? He came from Deity in His own service and returns to it, bringing out the glory and dignity of His Person.
JT We must distinguish the Persons who are in the Deity, and what we are to Them; “loved them to the end”.
Rem Personal relations, as known in the world, are not what we wait for. It enters into the service of God; the Persons are known to us in Their own place.
JT It is seen more in John than anywhere, that is, each Person functioning in His own [p. 224] place.
AH Is this action on the part of the Lord to endear Himself to us? I am referring to verses 4 and 5.
JT Yes, it shows what the saints are to Them.
Rem That love brings us into the economy.
JT Yes. “Jesus, knowing”; there is what He knew in this relation, “that he should depart out of this world to the Father”; all was in Their own hands in the infinite liberty that belongs to Them. The saints are peculiarly brought into it.
JC-S Is it the writer or the Spirit making this comment?
JT It is the Spirit. He indites everything, that is subjectively. He is the prime mover in everything.
JC-S It is a beautiful touch. He takes on any strain that is put upon Him.
JT Very good. He is God, and therefore there is no limit to His power, but He acts subjectively in a lowly way to the other divine Persons.
AH We have the Lord as a divine Person coming out from God, and going to God, over against the devil, as mentioned in verse 2.
JT The battle is on, and it is a tremendous conflict; he is the devil, and the Lord says, “for the ruler of the world comes, and in me he has nothing”, John 14:30. We are in the arena of the conflict, and divine Persons are seen in Their own sphere and Their own love, and we come into it. So it says, “And during supper, the devil having already put it into the heart of Judas [son] of Simon, Iscariote, that he should deliver him up, [Jesus], knowing that the Father had given him all things into his hands, and that he came out from God and was going to God, rises from supper”; it is in infinite dignity, and what He does relates to the saints and washing their feet. He does more later; He takes off His garments, but puts them on again.
JC-S All this relates to the saints in their companies,
as coming, between these two points “he came out from God and was going to God”, into the arena of the conflict, and to serve the saints; but the Lord proceeds on His own line to wash their feet.
Rem He is solely occupied with the saints.
JT It is very beautiful, and should appeal to each of us, as to how we are in the minds of divine Persons, and that we are coming on to the terrible conflict; but “[there is] he who restrains now until he be gone” (2 Thessalonians 2:7); the end is in mind. Here we have Judas; not only the devil, but Judas comes into the enemy’s circle.
EuR “He went out immediately; and it was night”, John 13:30.
JT The Lord had said to him, “What thou doest, do quickly”, John 13:27 He could use him, too.
Rem It seems as though the Lord’s service has in view the disclosures the Lord and the Spirit have to make, to clear their hearts and minds.
JT Quite so. The enemy can only do so much; it is till the falling away, or “the apostasy” (2 Thessalonians 2:3); and here we see Them acting for the saints in all They do. The “falling away” is a terrible thing; there is still time, but are the saints remembering that it will happen?
Rem The present service of the Holy Spirit is especially against that.
JT And Jesus, He is so near; “The Lord is near”, Paul says (Philippians 4:5), but the Spirit is nearer, “for he abides with you, and shall be in you” (John 14:17); He has a peculiar charge to look after the saints.
JOS He reassures the saints.
JT “The Father himself has affection for you” (John 16:27), so we are taken care of from all angles. Are we getting as much from this passage as you expect?
Rem. We only want help!
JT John’s gospel is more easy to divide up than any other.
Ques Are we to see things in their right proportions, so the Lord says, “The bondman is not greater than his Lord, nor the sent greater than he who has sent him”, John 13:16.
JT So “greater is he that [is] in you than he that [is] in the world” (1 John 4:4); it is a question of who is in us.
Rem One who is not less than God.
JT Quite so. It should be a great encouragement because of trade unions, because they are saying so much. The Lord can, and will deal, and is dealing with them in all parts of the world.
JC-S There is no reason why we should succumb to the conditions here.
JT There is certainly no reason, “because greater is he that [is] in you than he that [is] in the world”; we have no need to fear, even if we have to die, well, we shall be raised, and the raising is very near.
Ques The Lord is about to depart out of the world to the Father, but He is making full provision for the saints. Does this include the Spirit?
JT Yes. The Lord in chapter 14:16 says He will beg the Father for the other Comforter, “that he may be with you for ever”, and He says, “but ye know him, for he abides with you, and shall be in you”, John 14:17.
Ques Why does this ministry in chapter 13 precede the coming of the Spirit? How does it proceed?
JT We go out washed, a great moral advantage.
Rem In the world, you mean.
JT Yes; let anyone look at us; it is not only feet that are clean, but clean every whit; anyone can see it.
Rem A heavenly people.
JT Yes, we are indigenous to heaven; it is a [p. 227] wonderful thing, not that I go up to come out, but I belong there. The assembly comes down “having the glory of God”, Revelation 21:10.
EuR “I also send you” (John 20:21) bears that out.
JT Yes; it is very wonderful.
Ques “Part with me”, is that our place in the testimony?
JT That is the moral force of it; we are not ordinary people; we belong to heaven. If we are not washed, we have no part, that is, in the testimony with Him.
J.C-S. And no power!
JT Just so. Anyone can look at us. We are shut up in relation to Him.
AH “Ye also ought to wash one another’s feet”; how does it work out?
JT A brother or a sister with a stain upon them is of no use in the testimony; the ruler of the world had nothing in Him, He says; John 14:30.
AH He was invulnerable.
JT Judas had no power against Him; he was not clean.
RGB Is this to work out in God being glorified now in the saints?
JT You mean as to the Son of man being glorified, “and God is glorified in him”? Say more about it.
RGB I am thinking of the wonderful suggestion of God being glorified in the Son of man; the result being that God was glorified, and that God would “glorify him in himself”, that is in God, which is to be continued in the saints, and has in view the coming out in the heavenly city.
JT Yes; so it was a square, but solid; that is a cube, in Revelation 21. It is what God finds in the city.
JOS The promise to the overcomer in Philadelphia [p. 228] is that the Lord will write on him “the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem”, Revelation 3:12.
JT Yes; the assembly is honoured in that way.
ESH The overcomer is loved by the Lord in that way, and he ends in the city.
JT Yes; the city is with God and comes down from God; but it is what is in it, how God can use it. We can look at this in a large or a small way in the assembly; everything is taken care of in the assembly in the place He has assigned to her.
RGB Do we get the dignity and place of affection the Lord had in His mind for the saints as dignified persons?
JT Yes; we must make much of them; it is what they are, as seen in John’s first epistle, and especially as to the apostles; it is carried on in the assembly, in view of the end. It is seen in the last chapter of Revelation, where verse 14 reads, “Blessed are they that wash their robes, that they may have right to the tree of life, and that they should go in by the gates into the city”, Then, “I Jesus (note the emphatic”I”) have sent mine angel to testify these things to you in the assemblies”, Revelation 22:16. And then, “the Spirit and the bride say, Come”. There is something there that the Lord has, as available, “the bride”. “To you in the assemblies” shows the place they have, and how He can use them.
Rem The word is plural, “assemblies”; it would be the local companies.
JT That is right. He works out His thoughts in the local companies; so Revelation 3 shows it on moral grounds, in Philadelphia. There is nothing said against her.
Rem He presents Himself in a very personal way there, “the name of my God” and “my God, and my new name”, etc.
JT Yes.
Ques What does “the angel of the assembly” suggest?
JT It is representation. It is to the angel, but to the whole number of the assembly in the proper sense.
JOS The bride is clothed with the glory of the whole.
JT Yes; Philadelphia represents the whole assembly; I think that is the thought.
Rem Verses 31 and 32 of our chapter present the end as to what is made known as to persons; God is glorified and the Son of man is glorified in Himself, and the whole matter finds its end in the assembly.
JT I think so; the King, in Matthew 22, makes a supper for His Son; and then we have also the passage in Matthew 16, where Peter says who He is, and He says “Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona, for flesh and blood has not revealed [it] to thee, but my Father who is in the heavens. And I also, I say”, (Matthew 16:17), as if to enlarge on the dignity of the assembly; so He refers to the keys of the kingdom, but it is the assembly, “on this rock I will build my assembly, and hades’ gates shall not prevail against it”, Matthew 16:18. What dignity He has in the assembly.
Rem So He has the assembly in an operational way.
JT That is a good word. The assembly is fully qualified to do that; she can do anything, and we need to lay hold of the fact.
AH And of John 20 as well.
JT Certainly; it includes it all.
EuR “Thou art Peter” is as a subject of His Father’s handiwork.
JT Look at John 1:14, “And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we have contemplated his glory, a glory as of an only-begotten with a father), full of grace and truth; (John bears witness [p. 230] of him, and he has cried, saying, This was he of whom I said, He that comes after me is preferred before me, for he was before me)”; John is to finish, and John the evangelist says then, in verse 16, “for of his fulness we all have received, and grace upon grace. For the law was given by Moses: grace and truth subsists through Jesus Christ”. See what is going on! See what He is doing Himself and how He speaks of Himself! So we need to be larger in our thoughts as to the assembly and what He has in her and is glorified in her.
RGB He is glorified as Man on high, and also in the assembly.
JT Yes; and the assembly as come out from God, “the bride, the Lamb’s wife. And he carried me away in [the] Spirit, [and set me] on a great and high mountain, and shewed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of the heaven from God, having the glory of God”, Revelation 21:10. It is wonderful to ponder on, what the assembly is operationally.
Ques “Having the glory of God”, has it any reference to the Spirit’s service?
JT The Spirit would say (speaking in a holy way, for They speak with Themselves; anyone can see that) as speaking of the assembly, ‘She has His glory’.
Ques What about those who go out from us? What God and Christ have in the assembly; how serious it is to go out from the saints.
JT Yes. It says, “They went out from among us, but they were not of us” (1 John 2:19); a solemn and terrible thought.
JOS Is there a link in John 10:14 with the glory of the saints, “I know those that are mine, and am known of those that are mine, as the Father knows me and I know the Father”? It is a wonderful experience of the saints.
JT The saints forming the assembly, ever a [p. 231] creature, never, divine, but so wonderful; she comes down “out of the heaven from God, having the glory of God”.
Rem He came out alone, but went back with many brethren.
JT How divine Persons converse among Themselves, yet we are brought into it as having the Spirit.