THE SPIRIT QUICKENING THE BODIES OF THE SAINTS
[p. 256] THE SPIRIT QUICKENING THE BODIES OF THE SAINTS
1 Thessalonians 4:13 - 18; Romans 8:11
JT The coming of the Lord is generally linked with 1 Thessalonians 4, and it is designated as the rapture. Many scriptures could be cited, but these are sufficient. The one in Thessalonians is linked with the Lord’s own coming, and the one in Romans 8 is the other side of the subject, and connected with the Spirit, who is spoken much of here, as in Romans generally. So it is said, “But if the Spirit of him that has raised up Jesus from among [the] dead dwell in you, he that has raised up Christ from among [the] dead shall quicken [p. 258] your mortal bodies also on account of his Spirit which dwells in you”. This verse connects our subject with the Spirit, and it is to be noted that where we read of the rapture in Thessalonians the Spirit is not mentioned. It says, “the dead in Christ shall rise first; then we, the living who remain” and does not say anything as to the Spirit, but in Romans it does, “But if the Spirit of him that has raised up Jesus from among [the] dead dwell in you, he that has raised up Christ from among [the] dead shall quicken your mortal bodies also on account of his Spirit which dwells in you”; it is “mortal bodies” not ‘dead bodies’; He “shall quicken your mortal bodies also on account of his Spirit which dwells in you”. We shall all get help in looking into this scripture, and, maybe, others. Divine Persons do things, and are identified in what They do. The dead are not said to be raised by the Spirit, but the living are quickened by the Spirit.
Ques Is the verse in Romans 8 linked with “the living who remain”?
JT [p. 257] At the rapture all will be living and caught up, hence the ‘rapture’; it is attributed to Christ Himself here. So that what the Spirit is stressing is the action, or activity, or work of he Spirit Himself. It is important to connect the Spirit with the rapture, that is the catching up of the saints in the air. The quickening is the act of the Spirit.
Rem In the next chapter Paul says, “quench not the Spirit”, 1 Thessalonians 5:19.
JT So your point is to stress there that the Spirit’s activity should not be questioned. This was a young assembly, yet it is very apparent that the Spirit is connected with the living bodies of the saints on earth.
Ques Would the quenching be collective?
JT I have thought of that. But quickening is individual.
Ques May quenching characterise a meeting?
JT It very often happens; grieving Him, something in one or all of us. There are deep feelings with us now that the Spirit as Paraclete is known in the assembly. Then He is engaged with our bodies as alive, and before the rapture. He must act to make us fit to be raptured. The rapture is the action of the Lord Himself.
Rem “Your whole spirit, and soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ”, 1 Thessalonians 5:23.
Ques Do you think the passage in Romans 8 would help us to value the company of the Spirit here?
JT There are thirteen references to the Spirit in Romans 8, showing how active the Spirit is in this passage of Scripture.
Rem In all His personal activities joining “its help to our weakness”, Romans 8:26.
JT “But if the Spirit of him that has raised up Jesus from among [the] dead dwell in you, he that has raised up Christ from among [the] dead shall quicken your mortal bodies also on account of his Spirit which dwells in you”, so that “Jesus” is distinguished from “Christ”, and vice versa; and “dwelling” is mentioned twice.
Rem It is the Spirit of God that dwells in us.
JT Just so.
Ques Does the passage stress the greatness of the Spirit of God and the greatness of His power where it goes on to say, “we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to flesh; for if ye live according to flesh, ye are about to die; but if, by the Spirit, ye put to death the deeds of the body, ye shall live: for as many as are led by [the] Spirit of God, these are sons of God” (Romans 8:12 - 14); it is the greatness of the Spirit of God dwelling in us in power? Can this be linked with what the Lord said to Martha?
JT Yes; go on.
Rem “I am the resurrection and the life: he that believes on me, though he have died, shall live”, John 11:25.
JT That is the resurrection.
Rem “And everyone who lives and believes on me shall never die”, John 11:26. They would be alive at the Lord’s coming, as we are here.
JT If the Lord should descend now there would have to be an action of the Spirit to fit us for the rapture.
Rem “We shall not all fall asleep, but we shall all be changed”, 1 Corinthians 15:51.
JT “In an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet”, 1 Corinthians 15:52.
Ques What is the difference between the quickening here in Romans 8, and what it says in 1 Corinthians 15:45, “the last Adam a quickening spirit”?
JT It is a question there of the Lord Jesus as the last Adam. It is very important. Romans 8 is the Spirit; the “last Adam” is not the Spirit. The Spirit is the Spirit; He is a divine Person,
“his Spirit which dwells in you”. I just wonder whether God will have us recognise the greatness of the indwelling Spirit, who will complete all the work. Well, we might say the Lord Jesus will do it all; but He does not, though He raised the dead.
Rem Raising the dead is connected with all three of the divine Persons, in John 5:21 it is the Father who “raises the dead and quickens them”, and then “the Son also quickens whom he will”, and here it is the Spirit.
JT All three divine Persons are seen quickening, but as to raising the dead, the Lord Jesus does that.
Ques Is it the Spirit’s action as dwelling in us?
JT Yes, it is an added thought to what we have had.
Rem There is a double reference to the resurrection in this verse, and in Romans 6:4 we have Christ “raised up from among [the] dead by the glory of the Father”, which would have a bearing, a powerful one, on the future, as well as on the present.
JT Yes, both on the Jews and the church. The church is a special feature of the glory of the Lord Jesus; He does things; “The Father loves the Son, and has given all things [to be] in his hand”, John 3:35. Doing things now is one matter, and then the body is the Lord’s, the body is “for the Lord, and the Lord for the body”, 1 Corinthians 6:13.
Rem The major line of the apostle’s thought in verse 14, “so also God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep through Jesus” is linked up with chapter 5:1,2, and the truth of the rapture is in the parenthesis in between.
JT The apostle says, “But we do not wish you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them that are fallen asleep, to the end that ye be not grieved even as also the rest who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus has died and has risen again, so also God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep through Jesus”; then we have the parenthesis in verses 15 - 18.
Rem As additional light.
JT As if the apostle showed his concern that they should have it fully; they were in great ignorance as to this great matter, and maybe some of us are; so he uses the word “ignorant”. Those that sleep through Jesus God will bring with Him; it is a remarkable manifestation of the action of divine Persons.
Ques Will quickening and raising be simultaneous, according to Philippians 3:21?
JT That is an oft quoted passage, showing that we shall be like the Lord; so John says, “we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is”, 1 John 3:2.
Ques Is the Spirit supposed as the agent, though not always mentioned? So it says the Lord Jesus “shall transform our body of humiliation into conformity to his body of glory, according to the working of the power which he has even to subdue all things to himself”, Philippians 3:21; the Lord is spoken of as doing it; is the Spirit’s action included in this?
J.T. Why not?
Ques Does Philippians 3:21 go further in referring to “conformity to his body of glory”, and does the quickening go further than resurrection?
JT No, it does not.
Ques Is therefore the account in Philippians additional, as Christ’s own action, yet the Spirit’s power is there?
JT Quite so.
Rem The end of the verse read, “according to the working of the power which he has even to subdue all things to himself”, would imply the Spirit’s action.
JT Yes.
Ques What about Ephesians 3:20, “according to the power which works in us”?
JT That is the Spirit, too. The more you look into all these thoughts, the more you see the inferential mention of the Spirit, which has been overlooked till now.
Rem Earlier, in 1 Thessalonians 4:8, He is spoken of as being in the believer.
JT The allusion there is to certain rights that brothers should have among themselves, and that they should not be interfered with.
Rem The fact of the distinction between the references to Jesus and to Christ in Romans 8:11 is marked provision for the church; so Jesus is not mentioned in the way that Christ and the church are mentioned.
JT I have often thought of that. “As to Christ and as to the assembly” is what is said. So the allusion in Ephesians 5:32 is back to Genesis 2, showing that there Christ and the assembly were in mind.
Rem So that the raising up of Jesus and the raising up of Christ are distinct thoughts.
JT To settle certain opinions current in the assemblies. The assembly is the main thought now; it is the completion of the whole matter. That is the one thing that should engage us now. As we sit in our houses, what do we talk of? God, the Father; the Son, Jesus; the Spirit, the Holy Spirit? There is so much said that has to be elucidated. In Corinthians it speaks of the Head of every man being Christ; 1 Corinthians 11:3. How can we show that the Spirit has a place in the headship as to the covering, and how much can we say in our houses as to it?
Rem “And these words ... thou shalt ... talk of them when thou sittest in thy house, and when thou goest on the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up”, Deuteronomy 6:6,7.
JT It has been very much before us of late as to the sisters being segregated from the brothers at [p. 262] certain times. Well, they are not to speak, but at times they are to prophesy. What are our sisters to do? It is a real problem as to what they are to do, as for instance when the scripture is chosen, why are they not there?
Ques Do you mean present at everything?
JT Present, but silent.
Ques What would you say as to sisters desiring to walk with us?
JT You would ask a sister as to such.
Rem So Barak was not far wrong in refusing to go without Deborah.
JT Yet Deborah is omitted from Hebrews 11.
Rem Four women are mentioned in the generations of Matthew 1.
JT Give them all.
Rem Matthew 1, verse 3, “Thamar”, verse 5 “Rachab” and “Ruth”, and in verse 6, “her that had been the wife of Urias”.
JT So the women are not ignored but are in the line of the Lord’s own generation.
Ques Is it therefore a hint or inference of what place women would have in the great assembly gospel?
JT Yes.
Rem What about our scripture? Why is the Spirit mentioned so frequently?
JT Well, we should take notice of that.
Rem In Romans 8 you said He is mentioned thirteen times.
Rem It is really His chapter.
JT It is, but in 1 Thessalonians 4 He is not mentioned, though He is in Romans 8:11.
Ques Is it a combined action?
JT Yes. The Holy Spirit operates in our hearts because we are waiting for the rapture. The Spirit will, I suppose, go with us having quickened us.
Rem “The dead in Christ shall rise first” as if [p. 263] life is there, and they answer to His voice, as Lazarus did.
JT Someone has said that if the Lord in John 11 had not said “Lazarus”, all the dead would have come forth. It is very striking, and shows the power of Christ.
Ques Are “Christ’s day” (Philippians 1:10), and “the day of redemption” (Ephesians 4:30) for which we have been sealed by “the Holy Spirit of God”, the same thing?
JT The adoption is sonship.
Ques Does it apply to the body?
JT It is the one thing the body awaits, “awaiting adoption, that is the redemption of our body”, Romans 8:23.
Rem That involves sonship.
Ques Is the quickening of “your mortal bodies” the same thing?
JT That is the one thing we await, “awaiting adoption” (or ‘sonship’, see note). Ephesians 4:30, “sealed for the day of redemption” is the same allusion.
Rem It is also mentioned in Ephesians 1:14.
JT There it is “the redemption of the acquired possession”, Ephesians 1:14; it is what God has acquired.
Rem We have the earnest, but not the actual thing.
Ques Will there be any lack, or anything lost, if we do not die, and therefore have not the experience of resurrection, but are only changed?
JT In 1 Corinthians 15:51,52 it says, “we shall all be changed, in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye”.
Ques But will we miss the experience of death and resurrection?
JT We shall all be perfectly satisfied.
Rem But there is a [p. 264] difference.
JT There is none. The quickening of the Spirit is the same thing in all.
Ques Is the reference to “your mortal bodies” equivalent to ‘dying bodies’, even if we do not die?
JT ‘Resurrection’ is the word, “But if the Spirit of him that has raised up Jesus from among [the] dead dwell in you”.
Ques Does Colossians 2:12 apply to this, “through faith of the working of God who raised him from among the dead”?
JT After the baptism of a child, there was the child lifted out by loving hands, and the water was carried out like carrying out a dead body. It struck me so. The first day of the week, we sit down and we have the sense of the Lord Jesus as a dead body before us, and as time goes on we apprehend Christ as raised from the dead; and not only is the believer put in the water, but raised out of it.
Rem The Spirit is the power for raising.
JT Without Him we should all be dead.
Ques Does Philippians 3:11 help? “If any way I arrive at the resurrection from among [the] dead”.
JT He is thinking of himself. We arrive at it morally as having the Spirit, and as together at the breaking of bread, we come into a living state of things in sonship.
Rem It is a faith matter for those who accept circumcision and burial with Him in baptism.
JT The Spirit makes it more than faith.
Ques Is Romans 8:11 future and literal, while Colossians 2:11,12 is present for us?
JT Read Romans 8:11 again, “But if the Spirit of him that has raised up Jesus from among [the] dead dwell in you, he that has raised up Christ from among [the] dead shall quicken your mortal bodies also on account of his Spirit which dwells in you”. That does not happen on the first day of the week; that is additional. The quickening is by the Spirit’s power.
[p. 265] Rem In Ezekiel 37:14 the Spirit is mentioned: “And I will put my Spirit in you, and ye shall live”.
JT That is what will happen to Israel. It is figurative there, not literal. It is what is called the millennial Israel raised in a figure, but we shall be raised in a literal way. The millennium is not there yet, but we are; it shows what God can do when He wills.
Rem The millennium is God dealing with flesh and blood, but for us the experiences are spiritual now.
JT That is it. On the first day of the week in our experiences we are “raised up together”, and made to “sit down together”. Anticipation is a great thing in the Spirit.
Rem So that in Romans 12:1 this has a present bearing, “to present your bodies a living sacrifice”.
JT That is the present bearing, and we come into it on the first day of the week as having the Spirit. We are raised together, and quickened together; these are synchronous; then we all go up together.
Rem By the Spirit God “gives us the victory by our Lord Jesus Christ” now; 1 Corinthians 15:57.
JT Yes.
Ques Why do you emphasise “your mortal bodies” in Romans 8:11?
JT Because it is that we are mortal, and if God so orders it we shall die.
Rem We should not use this verse at a burial.
JT That is the distinction between Romans 8:11 and 1 Thessalonians 4.