THE SON KNOWN IN GOD'S HOUSE
THE SON KNOWN IN GOD’S HOUSE
Hebrews 3: 1 - 7; Hebrews 10: 21 - 25
JT These scriptures present the Lord to us as He is to be known in the house of God. The subject will necessitate reference to other scriptures in the gospels, besides these passages in the epistle to the Hebrews. I thought it would be good to consider the Lord’s relation to the house — how He is to be known in it. Attention has been called in recent years to the Lord’s coming to us, but I think perhaps we limit it too much to certain occasions, and do not sufficiently recognize that His movements in the house are very general.
Rem You mean that not only on Lord’s day morning, but in other meetings of His people, the Lord is present?
JT That is what I was thinking exactly. The Lord is presented in Hebrews 3 as the Builder of the house.
Rem And as the One over it, Son over His house.
JT That is over God’s house. Acts 20 gives us the house as set up by Paul, and the consideration of that chapter would promote conditions such as the Lord could move in, and which are in keeping with Himself. The chapter begins with the apostle, who represented the Lord, embracing the saints at Ephesus, and it ends with the elders of the assembly at Ephesus embracing him; that is to say, there were established relations of affection between the Lord and the assembly; not only affection on His side but on theirs also. I think in that way, conditions were set up which enabled the Lord to come in and operate, and to move in their midst; conditions in which He would be known as over the house; known in His dignity first as Son, and then as being in the liberty involved in that relation.
[p. 145] Ques Do you distinguish between the company of Christ in the house on the line of priestly service and on the line of affection?
JT Well, the two relations in which He is presented in these passages are sonship and priesthood. He is over the house as Son, and in that capacity He is necessarily Head. I do not say that is developed in the passage, nor is it developed in Hebrews. The first thing is to see that He has built the house, and as having built it, He is over it, which I apprehend is His general relation to the house, as Solomon, having built the house was over it; and then He is Priest, “a great Priest”, over it to the end that saints might draw near to God.
Rem I was thinking whether the service of Christ on those lines was necessary to His service as Head.
JT Headship comes in, but I was thinking more of His position in the house and the way saints apprehend Him, and what resources we have in Him. The gospel of Matthew presents instances in which the Lord took up an attitude in which He could be approached by His disciples, and in which His disciples approached Him; for instance, in Matthew 5 He ascended a mountain, “and when he was set, his disciples came unto him”. I think if we saw the Lord’s position in the house, as having built it, and being Son over it, we would take advantage of the door open to us to come to Him, and avail ourselves of the opportunities offered of coming to Him. We read, “having sat down, his disciples came to him; and, having opened his mouth he taught them”. Then throughout the gospel you find the positions in the house, all of which taken together are intended to convey to us what obtains now in a spiritual way; but I do not think we shall understand what is available in a spiritual way now, unless we see how the Lord was to be known when He was here among His disciples. In Acts 1 reference is made to the time when “the Lord Jesus came in and went out among us, beginning from the baptism of John until the day in which he was taken up from us”. During all that period He had gone in and out among them. It is in the understanding of what that means that we get what obtains now in a spiritual way, for He still comes in and goes out amongst us, and the house is the sphere of His movements. Matthew begins by presenting Christ in the house; chapter 2: 11. He is in the house when the wise men come. In chapter 4 He is seen as dwelling in Capernaum, verse 13. There He was dwelling among them. So throughout the gospel you find references to His being in the house. In chapter 13: 36. He is in the house. He had been in the boat on the sea, speaking to the crowds many things in parables, but He went into the house deliberately, and His disciples came to Him, and in the house there is the opening up of His mind as to the assembly.
Ques Would that be suggested by the ark of the covenant being put into the temple?
JT I think the ark represents Christ as the One by whom God effects everything — the resource of God.
Rem There is a way in which the Lord may be known in communion; but in the way you are seeking to present it, He is to be known in a peculiar way in the house.
JT The ark presents one side; Moses and Aaron present the other side. Moses as a servant maintained the authority of God, the rights of God in the house; Aaron was priest, and represented the service of Christ in supporting the saints. Whether it be the service of Moses over the house, or of Aaron — the antitype of both is for us in the Lord.
Ques In referring to the Lord dwelling in Capernaum, have you any thought with regard to the saints’ houses today? or is it more as to the house of God?
JT John says, “the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us”. The Lord became known among the disciples; it was wonderful grace that He should come so near and in this familiar way.
Ques Do you mean that the study of the gospel of Matthew would help us in regard of the house of God?
JT Yes. His various connections with houses help as to this. We have to understand how He comes in and goes out among us.
Ques Are we to understand that a company like this sets forth the Lord coming in and going out? Could we look upon this company as the house of God?
JT We are peculiarly now in a position to realize the Lord’s gracious service. We were speaking, however, of the matter in a more general way, but the Lord does come in on these occasions. The Lord is over the house, and He has His own way of coming in and helping, and making Himself known. I believe by the careful study of the gospels, we come to understand how He comes in and goes out amongst us.
Ques Are you speaking now of the house as the saints together, or in a general way?
JT In a general way. The house exists always; it is not dependent upon our being convened, and it is never connected with a local company. The house of God is a general thought, including all the saints everywhere, and the Lord is always active in it — it may be at times to rebuke or convict, but He is always active in it.
Rem You referred at first to the apostle and the elders at Ephesus: do I understand He is over the house in affection, and is thus accessible? We are drawn to Him.
JT That is my thought exactly. Acts 20 sets out the conditions. You get embracing mentioned three [p. 148] times in that chapter. It is the love sphere. When the apostle came to Troas. Luke says, “The first day of the week, we being assembled to break bread”. He tells us, however, before he uses that expression that certain brethren were present. Europeans and Asiatics — a remarkable meeting! It brings out one great feature of the house of God — its universal character. Brethren are apt to disregard local responsibilities, or to make themselves too local, restricting themselves to their districts. Here were brethren from many parts on that first day of the week, and they all sat down together; and Luke, the writer, was there too, “we being assembled to break bread”. Thus there were conditions there that suggested the house.
Rem I am afraid we have looked upon the house more as the dwelling place of God, overlooking the position of Christ as being Son over it. If it is the dwelling place of God, all that God is should be expressed there, and as Son, Christ would bring that about.
JT Yes; He would bring in what is of God, He would represent God.
Ques Do you mean to bring in affections for all the saints in a general way?
JT Yes, to take account of the house in that way enlarges your view, your exercises and your affections; the Lord is over it, and His operations are in it, so that He is available. It says, they “came to him”.
Ques What is the point in the faithfulness, verse 2?
JT I think it is as the Apostle and High Priest of our confession He is faithful. Is it not a thought to encourage us, the Apostle and High Priest of our confession? Moses is brought forward as having been faithful to God, “faithful in all his house”. The consideration of his service would help us to see the [p. 149] faithful service of the Lord in maintaining us here and in maintaining the service of God.
Ques Do you contrast the Lord going in and out and the Spirit dwelling?
JT Yes, the Holy Spirit is here personally — sent down from heaven; and so you have “as says the Holy Spirit” in verse 7 of our chapter.
Ques Is this going in and out a special service of the Lord?
JT Yes, and if we had eyes to see, we should see Him in His movements; what He is doing, and where He is moving.
Ques Do we not experience the service of Christ in this regard in a very special way on Lord’s day morning?
JT Yes, but He is known there more as Head: that is where headship comes in.
Rem I was wondering whether the early part of the meeting is not the peculiar service of Christ.
JT Coming together we recognize the Lord, we begin with the Lord; it is the Lord’s supper, it is the Lord’s day, but the “first day of the week”, I think, is specially connected with Paul’s ministry, and is on a different line from that of the Lord’s day. When the assembly was set up, the Holy Spirit brought in the first day of the week in Acts 20, and Paul brings it in in writing to the Corinthians, chapter 16. It would not fit into the transitional period. We have the breaking of bread, in Acts 2, but there it is not strictly in connection with the assembly. They broke bread “in the house”; but when you have the assembly set up under Paul, you have the first day of the week, because the assembly involves a wholly new order of things, not a transitional period.
Ques What difference do you make between the first day of the week and the Lord’s day?
JT The first day of the week is the beginning of a new order of things. The Lord is going forth; the [p. 150] morning has dawned. It is not the termination of a period, of what has been before, but a new morning has dawned — the first day of the week.
Rem It takes in the whole extent of the assembly period.
JT And links us on with eternity.
Ques Do you mean that the Lord’s day suggests a period that will come to an end?
JT It refers to His authority, the Lord’s day and the Lord’s supper run together.
Rem The first day then would be the eighth day with regard to resurrection and a new order of things, and going on into eternity.
JT But the eighth day has reference to previous days; the first day has no reference to anything before it at all.
Rem It is the assembly without a previous history.
JT Yes, that is the idea.
Ques. The 20th of John?
JT Yes. The Holy Spirit would lead us into an eternal order of things. The Spirit’s power opens “the heavenly door”. There you are connected with a heavenly order of things to which the seven days of the week have no reference. We are led back to what is before the world, the wisdom which “God had predetermined before the ages for our glory”.
Rem The expression “the Lord’s day” only occurs in the 1st of Revelation — the dominical day. It is the same word as the dominical supper. The word only occurs in these two connections.
JT You feel the force of them in connection with a world of evil here, but the first day is another thing.
Rem I think what you are saying about the first day is very helpful in connection with the assembly, as being the introduction of an entirely new order of things.
JT The assembly is connected with the first day of the week. It is an eternal thought. It is always [p. 151] there, and we are always in it, and always of it. The house of God is a living reality, and connected with a wholly new order of things.
Rem The sheet that came down from heaven goes up to heaven. Acts 10 suggests a vessel fitted to go up to heaven.
JT There is a divine embrace; the apostle embraces the saints, and then they embrace him. Between those embraces you have the first day of the week, the breaking of bread, and Paul’s ministry.
Ques Would the breaking of bread introduce to that which is set forth in the first day?
JT I think it does. I think that is the idea, you go in for that which is eternal. The question is, are we lovable? Are we lovable enough to go to heaven? Am I such that God can love me without reserve?
Rem He also embraced Eutychus — the one who had fallen.
JT I think that fits in with the assembly historically. The love of God comes in for restoration. The boy is made to live; what is living is revived and maintained in that way.
Ques Does the faithfulness of the Son come in in connection with our being made lovable?
JT Yes, it does. A great many are occupied with the thought of being loved, but the question is, am I lovable? I know God loves me, but I ought not to be content with that. The question is, am I lovable?
Ques Is it not in connection with His faithfulness that He is appointed. What is He appointed for?
JT He is the Apostle and High Priest of our confession; He is faithful in maintaining that. He is faithful in the way He has preserved things for God and He will continue to do it too. John says, “He himself knew what he would do”. It is the faithfulness that marks the Lord in God’s assembly — the house of God — in maintaining it here from the very outset. We may reckon on His faithfulness. I suppose Peter may be taken to illustrate the faithfulness of the Lord in the way He restores us.
Rem What you were referring to in prayer is the way the Lord takes to make us lovable, John 13. So the consideration of God’s house is a very serious one, whilst a very blessed one. Paul writes to Timothy as to how one ought to behave oneself in God’s house. As to being lovable, there must be the bearing suitable to the house of God.
JT We see there how He comes in and goes out — the way He does things.
Ques Do you mean that we should be on the alert to take account of His activities at all times?
JT If we do not we miss it. Thomas was absent and he missed a wonderful opportunity. If we are slothful and neglectful, we miss things. The Lord goes on.
The exercise should be that we might take account of His activities. The apostle says to Timothy, thou hast followed up my teaching, conduct, purpose. If you are with God it is remarkable how things come to you, so that you know what the Lord is doing, and you are with Him in it. Without holiness no man shall see the Lord; having holiness we see the Lord in His movements.
Rem It is humbling to us if the Lord is active, and we do not discover it.
JT It is.
Rem Are there activities of the Lord apart from our coming together?
JT There may be a movement in the most out-of-the-way place, and it may mean much generally. The movement for recovery in the last century began in a very despised country — Ireland. The movements of the Lord in Matthew, after He rose, centred [p. 153] in Galilee; those recorded in Luke were in Jerusalem; so in John; the Lord in that way maintains a balance. If He intends to check a tendency to metropolitanism in a district, He will move far away from it. That movement will test us, but it is the Lord’s doing. He is free, He is over the house, and the house embraces all the saints. It ought to give us breadth of interests as well as breadth of outlook.
Ques Is His faithfulness in the house to maintain the pleasure of God there?
JT Exactly. These movements of the Lord are intensely interesting. He is not going to give up. “He himself knew what he would do”. He always keeps a reserve. He says to Peter, “If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?” His always having a reserve keeps us waiting, keeps us exercised, lest we may be shelved. If He is faithful, He will not brook any unfaithfulness in me. He is moving on to an end, and if we are not with Him, He will pass by and take up others.
Rem I wonder if the Lord as described in Revelation, as walking in the midst of the candlesticks, would correspond with this.
JT It does in the way of discipline. There He is over the profession, and He maintains His judicial character.
Rem You do not mean a literal “in and out”.
JT He has His own way of doing it.
Rem John 13 would give us the other side of His activities. His service.
JT Yes; but not in government, nor in discipline, but in love. Revelation 2 is discipline on account of declension.
Ques What is the distinctive character of the service of Christ in Hebrews?
JT Hebrews is to show what the saints have. We have this One — the Son over the house: He is faithful in it. He is not a servant in it here, but the Son.
[p. 154] Ques Do you connect the two scriptures in Hebrews with the two thoughts you have spoken of in Acts? The apostle in the first, and the High Priest in the second. The thought of embracing us would encourage us to draw near to Him.
JT I think the embrace is like the love of Christ and what He is to us; love made effective, brought near to us — the love of God shed abroad in our hearts.
Rem The Son would make effective the love of God in the house so that we should delight to draw near.
JT So in chapter 10 we do draw near. He supports us in drawing near. He has made the love known to us, and now He supports us in it. As Son He is on God’s side: as great Priest He is on our side, bringing us in all the excellency and dignity in which we are set up as knowing the love of God.
Ques Would you say we become tested as to how much we appreciate the One who has brought the revelation to us?
JT The Son alone can make God known to us. He fills the house with the love of God.
Rem And He would remove every shade of fear or misgiving.
JT “Perfect love casteth out fear”. He is on our side too. He is not said to be the High Priest in chapter 10, but the great Priest, and He gives us to know He is on our side. We come to realize the dignity of our position with God. Chapter 7 fits us for that side, “Such an high priest became us”, then in chapter 10 He is over the house of God; He is the great Priest, and we draw near to God in the understanding of that.
Ques What difference do you make between “high” and “great”?
JT I think “great” is somewhat of a moral thought; “high” is chief and would be more official. He makes you conscious you are great enough to go in. He is “great” in both chapters. In chapter 7: 26 “high” is elevation.
Ques Would the “high priest” stand connected with infirmities?
JT It is connected in chapter 4 with the throne of grace. In the 10th it is not exactly drawing near to the throne of grace, but drawing near to God. We are introduced into the divine presence itself, and introduced in such wise that there is no disparity between Christ and us.
Ques Would you limit that to when we are gathered together?
JT Oh, no. There is the house of God, and One over it available to maintain us in it. Should this not create a desire in us, like that of David, to dwell in the courts for ever? Think of what we are brought into. The Son comes in according to John 20 and stands in the midst; it was as if He had gone up to heaven and come down again. He had sent the message, “I ascend”, and Mary goes and tells them; now He comes to them as if He came down again, and says, “As my Father hath sent me, even so send I you”, and He breathes into them. Drawing near to God is so great in itself that we feel not only that we need the fitness to do so, but also the support of the Priest.
Ques Is that how the great Priest becomes endeared to our hearts?
Rem The effect of His service as Son is that we love because He has loved us.
JT I think that is it. The end of Acts 20, the more you consider it, is very much like drawing near. The embracing on the part of the elders was the appreciation of what was there — what the apostle represented.
[p. 156] Ques Does Philippians 4 cover what you have been saying, “The Lord is near”?
JT I think so. He is certainly near when we seek to draw near to God. If Satan can, he will hinder us from doing it, but the great Priest is there to support us.
Ques Do not the verses in John 14 show how He can come in without our being gathered together?
JT When He says, “We will come to him”, and in Revelation 3, “I stand at the door and am knocking”, how many of us know about that movement? I think that is what the Lord is doing constantly today — knocking at the doors of His people. “If any one hear my voice and open the door, I will come in unto him and sup with him, and he with me”. He has His own place to bring them to.
Rem In the measure in which we know something of these personal manifestations we would appreciate the privilege of having that place all the more.
JT You constantly revert back to the first day of the week; that day is the beginning of things. What happened then? Jesus came and stood in the midst; on that day He was active in many places.
Rem “Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together”.
JT I think that follows on. If you draw near to God, you want to draw near to the saints. This drawing near to God is not drawing near in the sense of need, but in the sense of what God is, tasting the rest, and peace, and joy of His presence.
Rem It is a great thing to get an outlook, not looking at things connected with ourselves simply as individuals, but in relation to all.
JT It is in relation to the house; the Lord never gives that up. The supping with Him is in the house.
[p. 157] Ques Would you say a word on “Let us hold fast the confession of the hope unwavering”?
JT The hope involves going in to God; that is what is to be held fast. It is the confession of the hope. The word “confession” is prominent in Hebrews. Christ is the Apostle and High Priest of our confession. He brought in the thing, and set it up, and maintains it: we hold it fast.
Ques. What is the hope?
JT It is a general thought in Hebrews. “Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul”. I think you hold fast to the heavenly calling of the saints.
Ques How would you connect the verse “By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually”, with what we have been saying?
JT That is by the Priest — by Him as Priest.
Ques But you would not confine offering the sacrifice to when we are actually gathered together?
JT Certainly not; if you give thanks for your food, it is by Him. This question of confession enters into pretty nearly every detail of everyday life.
Ques Is there not a danger of limiting our Christianity too much to gathering together?
JT One would not like to belittle our gathering together, but in everyday life we come under the service of Christ, and get the benefit of His movements.
Rem The thought of the breaking of bread conveys a greater thought than the thought of the Lord’s supper.
JT I did not say that. I spoke of the Lord’s day and the first day of the week. The breaking of bread brings in the Lord personally, it is what He did, and speaks of what He is to the assembly. The Lord’s supper is connected with testimony here. I do not say they are the same on account of the expression “As often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord’s death till he come” — we announce the Lord’s death, that is connected with the confession. The breaking of bread brings Him in amongst us, so that we apprehend Him in relation to the assembly as Head.
Rem I was wondering if the Lord’s supper connects itself with the state of things in which we are found, and the first day of the week carries us into that which is entirely new.
JT I would connect the Lord’s supper with testimony here.
Ques Is it more the thought of the public position?
JT I think it is.
Rem The breaking of bread is more the inner thing.
JT What He is to us.
Rem It has been said that a person may take part in the breaking of bread, and not take the Lord’s supper.
JT I do not understand that at all; the breaking of bread is the Supper. We come together to break bread; but the other side is that the Lord died here; “ye do show the Lord’s death” here.
Ques Does the Supper suggest eating and drinking?
JT It does certainly. The Supper is connected with public testimony. The breaking of bread is a memorial.