THE ASSEMBLY IN THE HEAVENLIES IN CHRIST
[p. 318] THE ASSEMBLY IN THE HEAVENLIES IN CHRIST
JT I thought we might consider the heavenly side of the assembly — the place God has given to us in His counsels, our eternal place. It is important to remember that there is a distinctive light which governs our position, which may be called “heavenly light”. No doubt every family designed for blessing has a peculiar light of its own. If we refer to Isaiah 60, where Zion is addressed and appealed to, the word is, “Arise, shine! for thy light is come” — a light specially for Zion. Then the Lord is said to have been a light for the revelation of the gentiles; in that way He was a special light for the gentiles. And there is a special light which applies to our position, which I believe may be called heavenly light. All light, of course, comes from heaven. The sun is the luminary of the earth, and Christ is said to be the Sun of righteousness, i.e. for the earth. It helps to consider what is special to us.
GN Does the section read refer to the gentiles?
JT It refers to Jews and gentiles who form the assembly. Ephesians has reference to the assembly.
Ques Do you limit the thought of the sun to Israel?
JT No, the sun is universal; but when the tribes moved of old, they pitched towards the sun-rising. The sun has a great place with Israel especially as a type of the Lord. Then “shall the Sun of righteousness arise” — that is what Israel shall find Christ to be. The light that shone round about Paul and those with him was “above the brightness of the sun”.
GN Paul was the one to whom the mystery was committed, and so could write thus.
DD God said, “Let there be light”; is that in your mind?
JT Yes, that is general in Genesis 1. But on the fourth day there were special luminaries set in the heavens.
JS The Sun of righteousness refers to God coming in, as to the earth.
JT Yes, righteousness has reference to the earth, so Romans is the solution of good and evil. Righteousness is established; that must be settled before you can enter on the heavenly position.
JS That must be universal. Every family must learn Christ in relation to righteousness, coming in in regard to the recovery of things.
JT Every family; it is fundamental for all. “When thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness”. But men have taken advantage of the grace of God, and the inhabitants of the world have not learned righteousness. What is required on the earth is judgment, and that is coming in. The question of righteousness has to be solved, and that applies to every one of us. We cannot touch the heavenly side without righteousness. It is a great lesson to learn — righteousness.
Rem Christ in heaven is the Sun of righteousness.
JT Yes, as He comes out. Paul views the Lord as sitting there. Christ is at rest there, there is nothing to disturb Him there, but He arises as the Sun of righteousness. The light that appears in heaven as Christ comes out has reference to righteousness, and what goes with that is healing.
Ques Is that the epistle to the Romans?
JT In a way; the soul learns righteousness and is healed spiritually; the believer is made whole in resurrection. The righteousness of God is manifested, being witnessed to by the law and the prophets; also the idea of healing comes in, the soul has to be made whole. You put your trust in Him.
“[p. 320] Blessed are all they that put their trust in him”, and putting your trust in Him, you come into healing.
Ques What is the idea of light “above the brightness of the sun”?
JT It is the superior character of the light, and that had reference to the man who was to bring in the truth of the mystery. The first record of the light that shone around Paul is by Luke; he simply states “a light from heaven” — not from Jerusalem. Then Paul in recounting the circumstances in speaking at Jerusalem says: “there shone from heaven a great light round about me”; that expressed his own estimate of it then. Then again at Caesarea before Agrippa he says: “A light ... above the brightness of the sun”, indicating increase of appreciation of the light in his own soul. The position of the assembly according to the counsels of God was in view. That man was an object to heaven, and the light he received came from there, so that he could bring out the truth of the heavenly Man and the complement of the heavenly Man, the assembly.
GN Paul’s gospel was distinct.
JT Yes, there was nothing partial about it, no cloud attached to it. It was clear shining. “The radiancy of the glad tidings of the glory of the Christ” was what he preached. Luke invariably supports Paul, and Luke gives the excess of grace, which accords with this chapter, that men are to have a place in heaven, ‘for his great love wherewith he loved us’. We are subjects of His great love, and then at the end of the passage we get “the exceeding riches of his grace”; another mark of our position; so excess marks it throughout. Luke it is who records that the Lord told the disciples to “rejoice because your names are written in heaven”!
Ques Are these verses the unfolding of the assembly’s position?
JT Yes, and that in the future God might show [p. 321] the exceeding riches of His grace. Israel and the nations are not great enough for that. It is only comparatively lately that one has had such a sense of the import of the 12th hymn — the heavenly position: “Heavenly light makes all things bright”; everything is seen in its true relation in the light of the assembly’s position. If we do not see that, we only see things partially.
Rem The light in the sanctuary had to do with what was inside.
JT Yes, the candlestick was to show you what was inside, not what was outside in the wilderness.
Rem “The seven lamps shall give light over against the candlestick”. Numbers 8: 2.
GN What about the candlestick in Revelation?
JT The assembly is also a light-bearer towards men, so that there should be light there. It is “the pillar and base of the truth”.
Ques Would you say the distinctive light of the assembly is allegiance to Christ? ... “Thou hast left thy first love”.
JT Abiding in His love is more than allegiance. Paul set the assembly in the affections of Christ consciously, that is where he left it. He understood his mission. Isaac is the type of Paul’s great thought, a man alone, a heavenly man outside the current of things here, having lost his mother, and without an object for his affections; Paul understood that. John Baptist heard the voice of the Bridegroom, but John did not bring in the bride. He heard the voice and he rejoiced, but he does not bring in the bride, though he says, “He that has the bride is the bridegroom”. But Paul brings in the bride. He perceives what is needed and brings in the assembly, and not only so, but he says, “I have espoused you unto one man”; his heart was taken up with that Man, and he feared lest the saints should be corrupted in regard to the simplicity of the Christ. He presented [p. 322] the assembly as a chaste virgin to Christ; Ephesus was his masterpiece; he brought before the Ephesian saints the whole counsel of God, all the heavenly light was brought out, he held nothing back of the full range of divine counsels and in the centre of all stands the Man. He wished them to “know the love of Christ”.
GN Three things in Acts 20 are to be specially noted: the grace of God, the kingdom, and all the counsel of God. Is righteousness connected with the kingdom, and counsel with the love of Christ?
JT Christ is seen in all His divine attractiveness in the centre of the divine domain — breadth, length, depth and height — “the love of Christ which passeth knowledge”. What an object for the hearts of the Ephesians! Paul set up the assembly in all that light, and in that way no one could equal him in the service he rendered. But we shall never touch counsel unless we know righteousness. Grace reigns through righteousness. John labours at it in his epistle: “If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him”.
GM Why is so much importance attached to righteousness?
JT On account of the conditions here in the world. You get it constantly mentioned in the Psalms and prophets: “borne witness to by the law and the prophets”.
JS All that adjustment is supposed to have taken place here, so our sinful course is not dealt with, but what God does at the end of such a course — we being in death.
JT Yes, it is God coming in because of His great love; viewed here we are regarded as dead Godward, not one pulsation toward God. Out of this state we are quickened with Christ.
JS I suppose the counsels of God can thus be [p. 323] opened up because there is a company in whom the work of God has taken effect?
JT Yes, the assembly at Ephesus is so formed that God can bring in His mind as to the whole. It is a universal letter, a sort of circular letter perhaps; one company is so formed by the truth that the Lord could open out the truth as to the whole assembly.
JS It was not abstract, it had taken effect somewhere.
Ques “Let him that stole steal no more”, is that righteousness?
JT Yes, “not to steal” is righteous, but a negative way of putting it; but “to give” is positive righteousness: “rather let him labour ... that he may have to give”. The form righteousness takes is that we give. That is what God is doing. The lack of righteousness has brought on the assembly all the difficulties. In the Psalms we have a “righteous nation” contemplated, which enters in. If you have a righteous people, you have a people in whom God is complacent.
GN Here Jew and Gentile as such are set aside and the new man brought in.
JT In Colossians He has reconciled us in the body of His flesh through death, that is the setting aside of the man who dishonoured God; that is the negative way of putting it; but in Ephesians, it is the positive side, “in one body”.
GM Reconciliation works out in the practical care one for another.
JT God is delighted with the new man, and his traits are seen in the body. He has reconciled “both unto God in one body”. Where enmity was, there is now love; and where two were, there is only one. You cannot have the assembly, nor realize the principles that govern it, if there are two wills.
Ques Is that why our past history is spoken [p. 324] of?
JT Well, it is recognized, but Godward, what you were before Him, not before men; it is not that men saw these things, “dead in sins”, etc. But out of that God has quickened us.
Rem Righteousness and life have reference to earth. Our position in this epistle is in heaven.
JT Romans is the adjustment of things on earth. Man is constituted righteous and made to live, that is all adjusted here; it is an important principle that the Lord did not leave an undefeated enemy behind Him, and no good general would; and then He could move on; if you move otherwise, you are in jeopardy.
GM He completed the victory.
JT Yes. As all is adjusted in your soul you can move; now you can go to heaven, as it were. It is due to God that there should be adjustment, but our position in heaven is entirely a question of God’s love. Romans is the adjustment of every issue raised on the earth, including the promises to the fathers.
Ques What is the distinction between the riches of His grace and the glory of His grace?
JT The glory of His grace is that there is a certain satisfaction with God in the working out of grace, it is an allusion to the special satisfaction God has as the result of it; His glory has reference to what He cherishes. “Riches” would be the quality and unlimitedness of it.
JS Does verse 11 begin a fresh thought? Reconciliation is for the earth, it is how those who have this heavenly position appear on the earth.
JT Yes, reconciliation must come out on earth. God will not take anything to heaven that He is not pleased with. He takes to heaven what pleases Him; it is most important to see that there must be the adjustment of everything on earth; it must all be met, and a righteous solution of it arrived at. Romans is that.
Rem A solution of all that which refers to earth;
[p. 325] therefore you must be a good Roman before becoming an Ephesian.
JT “When thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness”; they are not yet on earth, but they are in the assembly. “God is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints”. When questions arise among us, there must be a right solution of them, or God cannot be with us; we may gloss over things, or patch them up, so as to have an outward unity, but it will not do; He is to be feared in the assembly of His saints; there must be a righteous solution of every problem raised in our midst. The Lord in the midst of two or three enables them to do it.
Rem Judgment is to begin at the house of God.
JT Yes, “If it first begin at us ...” We must be in accord. This was lacking in the Corinthians, and discipline came in; “for this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep”. Ananias and Sapphira were guilty of lying. The Spirit gives us this one instance to show that God was there. If Satan could have introduced that lie, it would have meant a denial of the presence of God by the Spirit. “Thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God”. Then what follows that is, “Of the rest durst no man join himself to them”. There was a certain wholesome fear, because God’s judgments were there.
Rem It is a good place to be in.
JT Yes. His judgments are our salvation. How important it is to learn righteousness by God’s judgments.
HB If we were more ready to confess our sins, things would be simpler.
JT We should accustom ourselves to be frank and open. If God is in the midst and His judgments are there, we may have confidence to bring everything to the surface.
[p. 326] Ques Suppose you have a company who say righteousness is involved in certain circumstances, and another company who say it is not involved, how are you to get on then?
JT One company has not learned righteousness. Bring everything to the surface; the more we progress the less we cover up — the less reserve. In the intimacy of family relationships everything is open and above board, and the less there are of “confidential” things; then there is room for God to bring in a righteous solution of everything. Today God rules the world providentially, not directly. If He ruled directly, the inhabitants of the world would learn righteousness; but He is ruling the assembly directly. God’s judgments are there.
Ques Will there be any judgment in the future day?
JT Surely. There was in Solomon’s day. A case of difficulty arose, and who was to decide it — who could tell the mother of the child? The man who could discern the mother was the man to rule.
Ques What does that thought mean, having a “good report of them which are without”?
JT Your public ways must be right. It is a poor thing to be spoken ill of by the world. The order of things prevailing in the millennium prevails in the assembly, and consequently those in the assembly should learn righteousness. You come into fellowship, and brethren rejoice over you; but remember, you are amenable to the principles which govern the fellowship; they are God’s principles and hence right principles; you must learn righteousness.
Rem We are not left resourceless.
JT The epistle to the Corinthians supposes everything necessary for government, nothing needed outside. So the apostle says, If it is a matter pertaining to this life the least esteemed in the assembly [p. 327] is to judge; showing how small these things are compared with the spiritual side.
Rem There are resources to meet these things.
JT It is most painful that local difficulties should take so long to solve. In many instances they should not take an hour when they take months. These things arise through charges against one another, and the one under reproach seeking to vindicate himself. The person who is under reproach, vindicating himself is the difficulty. You could settle things in an hour or less, if persons involved were prepared to surrender. One has no capability of taking up his own cause. “Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right”? Morning by morning God’s judgments come to light and fail not.
Ques In what way could you surrender?
JT I would surrender to God and to my brethren. If fellowship means anything, it means that I commit myself to God and to my brethren. You are not your own vindicator. God has never put that responsibility on you. You have responsibilities enough, but He has not given you that. If brethren undertake to charge you with anything, the responsibility is theirs. Of course you are concerned about it.
GN There must be a divine way of meeting such things.
JT There is a divine way. Commit yourself to God and to the saints. He bringeth forth His judgments morning by morning, and your morning is sure to come. It is a question of waiting for your morning — it is sure to come. God adjusts things; nothing more is wanted than to wait on God; wait for your morning. Of course, as I said, you are not unconcerned and you are ready to meet your brethren, always challenging your own heart, and owning all possible. The Lord came into the temple from the mount of Olives, John 8, and there was a [p. 328] woman charged with something. Well. He judged the matter; it was all clear, there was conviction there, and the accusers all went out one by one beginning at the eldest. A dejected procession! One has often seen the accuser go out; in time, he always goes out. Satan is the great accuser, and he has to go out; he is put out.
Ques Is it necessary to learn in Peter’s way as well as John’s? I mean through stumbling?
JT I am sure we do; but we have no need to stumble; but if we stumble, it is a great thing to take advantage of the teaching of it, and the benefit of the discipline. God makes all things work together for good to them that love Him.
GN These incidents that come in from time to time among us are only God’s judgments. He wants to work out some issue through them.
JT If division occurs, it is that the “approved may be made manifest among you”. It is God’s judgment; He knows who they are; you may not, but He lets certain things happen that you may know. But, depend upon it. He deals with the false accuser, of course the saints should do so; see Deuteronomy 19.
Ques What is the Sun of righteousness arising with healing in His wings?
JT It is an allusion to conditions down here, what Christ will be to this poor benighted world; but we have a light above that. Ephesians is our light, and it says we are blessed “with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ”. The point is not so much to emphasize the blessing, but the place in which we have it.
Ques Is not all light heavenly?
JT Yes, in the sense that the luminary is in heaven, but it is not always so stated; for instance, in Genesis 1, it says, “Let there be light”, but it does not say where it came from. So too, when the Lord Jesus was down here. He was “the true light”. In Acts, it says the light came from heaven. Luke in his gospel confirms Paul; there man is not only justified, forgiven, and made to live, but he gets a place in heaven. Wonderful thought! In Luke 2, it was “peace on earth”; but now “peace in heaven”. Luke 19.
GN What is the force of “raised up together”?
JT It is Jew and Gentile raised up together. The work of God is so effectual that they are taken together out of earthly surroundings and moorings. It is not resurrection, it is elevation, and in the end a literal elevation. This chapter contemplates the complete work of God from beginning to end, and delivers us from all earthly moorings and makes us perfectly at home above. When it speaks of “dead”, it is not the death penalty in view, but that we had no pulsation Godward. So resurrection is not formally introduced, it is involved in quickening.
GN What precedes this? Is it the affections quickened?
JT Chapter 1 is what God wrought in Christ; chapter 2 is real, and in the saints. We are His workmanship. The whole work of God in us is in view; it is anticipative of what takes place at the coming of the Lord, but includes the current work in the saints.
GN It is important to take account of the operation of God in our souls.
JT Yes, the subjective side is in view. How could it be anything else? How otherwise could we be in heaven?
DG Could this be said of all christians?
JT It could only be said of those of whom it could be said. It is true of people, if true of them. Quickening is a real work in us. The passage includes every part of the work of God in those forming the assembly as said [p. 330] before.
Ques What about verses 8 and 9?
JT These verses are a parenthesis on the line of Romans, inserted here to meet the conscience; they are a sort of explanation, as showing our responsibility is not ignored. God has taken care of everything.
JS Is it a comment on what precedes? We get full salvation in people raised up and seated in heaven.
JT It is salvation not only from the enemy, but from this place, as set by the power of God in another place — heaven.
DG Saved from all distinctions of Jew and gentile.
JT All that would cause such distinction is gone. The effect of that is practical unity. Chapter 4 is based on that. We are lowly and meek. That is one mark of the heavenly man — lowliness and meekness and long-suffering. If we go up there, we come back like that — like the heavenly Man. So we get in Numbers the heavenly colour — the “lace of blue”. Numbers 15.