THE ASSEMBLY'S SERVICE GODWARD AND IN GOVERNMENT
THE ASSEMBLY’S SERVICE GODWARD AND IN GOVERNMENT
Acts 13: 1 - 4; Matthew 18: 15 - 20
JT The Lord has been helping His people as to His own Person, and I think would direct their attention in that relation to the assembly also, for we need instruction in regard of the assembly as we do in regard of the Lord’s Person. I thought that we might look at the assembly in its function Godward, and correspondingly as that which is the residence of grace — out of which the ministry towards men goes; and then, as in Matthew, what it is as a bulwark against evil, how it is constituted to meet evil as it has to deal with it. It has to deal with it only as it comes within itself; it has nothing to do with the evil that is in the world as such. As the apostle says, “For what have I to do with judging those outside also? ye, do not ye judge them that are within?” It is a question of what is within, and Matthew shows how it is constituted to administer the government of God against evil as coming within its own domain. Those two sides ought to furnish an instructive line of enquiry for us. We cannot rightly understand what the assembly is as the residence of grace here towards men, out of which servants go to announce the grace of God, nor can we understand Matthew’s presentation of the assembly, aside from understanding what it is Godward. This is seen in the early verses of Acts 13. It is the first mention formally we have in the Acts of the assembly’s service Godward.
Ques Is that in verse 2, “as they ministered to the Lord, and fasted”?
JT Yes. As thus serving, the Holy Spirit spoke to them to separate Barnabas and Saul, as if He would respect what they were engaged with. The wine that makes glad the heart of God makes glad [p. 401] the heart of man, and the oil that honours God honours man too.
WP Is there any special significance in the names in the passage, that they were in the assembly that was in Antioch?
JT There is; there were five. They are mentioned in this order; and it is stated after a considerable account of what had occurred in Antioch, indicating that they were, to some extent, the outcome of what had preceded. We are told in chapter 11 that Barnabas and Saul had gathered together in the assembly and taught a large crowd for a year. Then we are told that the disciples were called christians there for the first time, as if to honour the result of the ministry. Then we are told prophetically that there would be a famine, and certain there that were well off contributed for the poor saints at Jerusalem, and their bounty was sent by the hands of Barnabas and Saul. Then we are told that persecution broke out at Jerusalem against the assembly. Herod leading in the attack, and after Peter’s release from prison, that Herod was consumed of worms. And Barnabas and Saul returned to Antioch and took John Mark with them. And then certain men of spiritual ability and quality in the assembly at Antioch are mentioned. These names are given, as if the assembly is accredited with them. They are called prophets and teachers, but they are not mentioned as engaged in prophesying and teaching, but in ministering to the Lord, which is a higher thing and something that will go on eternally. The exercise of gift will cease, but ministering to the Lord will not cease, and that is what is noted here.
FWW This was characteristic of them, not merely as convened?
JT The Spirit stresses they were doing it, and you will notice, as they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit spoke, as if to pay respect [p. 402] to what they were doing. Heaven has great delight in this; it is really what will go on eternally, but it begins here, and unless we understand it, we may go on in our service and God may bless us, but we shall be at a great loss in it.
FWW I was enjoying your thought as to what we will do eternally; that will be characteristic of the assembly.
JT If you say the brethren in this town minister to the Lord and fast you are speaking characteristically, but the Lord looks for the expression of it at particular times.
FWW So you would carry the thought of the assembly in your heart at all times.
JT Exactly. It is the prime thought governing us here in this world; we are of the assembly. The assembly at Antioch, as answering to the mind of God, is contemplated here.
FI Do you infer that blessing manward depends upon what ascends up from the midst of the assembly to God?
JT That is the order. The assembly is really the residence of grace, the residence in this world of all that God is by the Spirit. That is a great thought to get into one’s mind — what the institution is that God has here. In the types you have the cities of refuge. In Deuteronomy you have three in the land, and in Numbers you have six. In Joshua you have six, but the three would emphasize the spiritual side of the cities of refuge, that is to say, the highest expression of grace. There were three cities in the land, and that, I think, is what you get here. It is the levitical side, not in active service manward, but Levi as in Deuteronomy as inclusive of the priesthood. Levi as in Deuteronomy 33 is the priestly side of the tribe — he presents whole burnt-offerings to God. Well, I think that is what is noted in [p. 403] Antioch, that the levitical service Godward is among the Gentiles; it is in a Gentile city. It had moved out; it was no longer limited to Jerusalem; and now God was going to display what was there in the gospel in sending out these two ministers “for the work to which I have called them”. It is a question therefore of what the work that God appoints may be today.
Ques Would you tell us what is involved in ministering to the Lord and fasting?
JT I believe we have to learn everything from the Lord Himself. Luke narrates what is before us as well as the gospel, and in the gospel he gives us examples of the Lord in prayer and praise. Thus we may learn from the Lord how to minister to God. He is said to be praying in a certain place, and a disciple says to Him, “Teach us to pray”. We have to learn from the Lord how to pray. Then He is seen praising God too. He rejoiced in spirit and said, “I praise thee, Father, Lord of the heaven and of the earth, that thou hast hid these things from wise and prudent, and hast revealed them to babes”. Those two instances indicate what service Godward is. In the instance in which the Lord is seen praising, it is said He rejoiced in spirit. It is not mere formal words in hymns or even in giving of thanks, words that others may use, but the outgoing of what is in our spirits. He rejoiced in spirit. Mary said, “My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit has rejoiced in God my Saviour”, Luke 1: 46, 47. It is what is inward. You call upon all that is within you to praise God. We have therefore to examine ourselves as to what is within us when we come together in assembly, whether we can call upon all that is there to praise God. If we have mixed or fleshly feelings, we cannot rightly call upon them to praise God. There is thus always the need of prayer and fasting, it is the basis really; fasting is the denial of fleshly or [p. 404] even natural propensities, and prayer brings in what is according to God in the soul.
GCS Would it shut out what is national too? There seems to have been a mixed company here.
JT That is good. You mean there was a Levite by birth, that is Barnabas; and a coloured man apparently. Then we have the Cyrenian, a tropical man; then an aristocrat, Manaen, foster-brother of Herod, and then we have Saul who was a Pharisee of the Pharisees. It was a remarkable composition which required the disallowance not only of national feelings but social feelings.
WP Is the idea that the persons named would be an influence in the assembly which was in Antioch?
JT The assembly there is accredited with them. The assembly is accredited with what is in it. In the book of Joshua, Judah is the first tribe to get its inheritance, and in obtaining its inheritance, Caleb comes into evidence. Judah came to Joshua at Gilgal and Caleb is the spokesman, and he reminds Joshua what Moses the man of God had said to Joshua and to him forty-five years before. They were distinguished together then by Moses the man of God, and he goes on to say that God had kept him alive all those years. Well, that is a great matter. One may say, I have lived these many years in this town, but then your neighbour may have lived the same length of time and he is not converted. He has lived on the principle of the world. How have you lived? Caleb said God had kept him alive. Others died under the government of God, but God kept him alive. That is to say, he was dependent upon God. He gave thanks for his food every day, and read the word of God every day, so to speak; he lived by God; he had active relations with God every day. Thus he can say, I am as vigorous now at eighty-five as I was then, as able to go out to war as I was then; and he claims the territory which the man of God said [p. 405] should be his; he valued his inheritance. And Joshua gave him the inheritance and blessed him. That is how the matter stood in Judah. The tribe is enriched as possessing such a man as Caleb. And that is the idea here. The assembly is accredited with what is in it. An assembly may be discredited, too, by what is in it. If there is a low state in some, the balance sheet does not show so well, because God does keep balances, both in regard of individuals and assemblies. We must look out for the debits as well as the credits. We get credits here in these five remarkable men, they were ministering to the Lord and fasting.
GCS Would their worth be that they were prophets and teachers and not their social position?
JT What they were spiritually. If I ask you about forty-five years ago, what can you say? What were your relations with God then, and what are they now? Caleb, as we remarked, had been kept alive by God; he had maintained his relations with God. These men at Antioch are in spiritual vigour, denying the flesh. They have gone through the epistle to the Romans, so to speak; and of course they were valuable as gifts.
LDM Bethany is mentioned in John in relation to certain persons.
JT That corresponds. Those three persons accredited the town in a certain sense.
LDM Does it mean that what is heavenly has taken concrete form in that place?
JT They stand out as characterizing the assembly that was there, as Caleb did in relation to his tribe. They are presented on the highest level. You can understand that they would have a sense of obligation mutually; and there would be freedom from rivalry, which would be a great moral triumph in five gifted men in one assembly. With several gifted men in a gathering there is apt to be a bit of rivalry, and it needs great grace to minister to the Lord under [p. 406] those conditions; but fasting means the renunciation of all that marks the flesh.
LDM The Holy Spirit spoke. What have you to say about that?
JT That paid tribute to what was there. If you take a meeting that is in a low state, you would hardly expect the Holy Spirit to nominate evangelists there. He would have to speak otherwise and have to rebuke what is in the place, instead of taking it into His confidence. It is God honouring the saints at Antioch in bringing them into His general operations.
FI That is, the local spiritual condition enabled Him to act thus.
EWP Would the ministering to the Lord and fasting secure the Lord’s place of pre-eminence amongst them?
JT It does. If I turn to the Lord in the assembly — how great and glorious He is! Saul is mentioned last here. I suppose Luke, the writer, understood that he would take his place. He was the last mentioned, but really morally the greatest of them. Suppose you give an address; the Lord helps you and when you have finished you turn to Him and you see how great and glorious He is and how small you are, for after all, what you did was His doing. This keeps us lowly. Persons who carry on their gift without ministering in the assembly are sure to go astray. You can understand Paul and Barnabas coming back to Antioch and staying “no little time with the disciples”, Acts 14: 28. Their report to the saints at Antioch was of “all that God had done with them”. They would take their places in the assembly. I believe the Lord is aiming now to bring the brethren round to what the assembly is, and how He employs it in His work: “The work to which I have called them”; whatever that may be.
[p. 407] GCS It would keep the assembly in sympathetic feeling as to the ministry.
JT It would, and as to the need that may be around us. The need is surely very great, and the Holy Spirit has first-hand knowledge about that. I think one feature of the presence of the Spirit here is to impress us with the fact that God has first-hand knowledge, because the presence of the Holy Spirit here is God here, but God here in such lowly circumstances. It is no less than that, but He has firsthand knowledge of the need, and He is making the appointments. He will not go to human organizations; He looks for something like this, saints ministering to the Lord. There He will make His appointments.
PAR Are these men serving as priests?
JT That is what I understand. I think it is the levitical position, but in the sense of Deuteronomy — indeed Joshua, too; the levitical position, but the priestly side of it.
LDM And there is subjection to the Spirit’s word. There is no sense of jealousy in the appointments.
JT That is so very beautiful. As already said, the Holy Spirit is honouring them in calling them into this great movement. They are to separate the two men, but He sends them forth. The assembly does not send out missionaries; that is a false thought. I suppose all the so-called churches send out missionaries, but it is not scriptural. The Holy Spirit sends them out, but He calls upon those in the assembly to separate them, which they do; and, in laying their hands on them, they let them go. This implies that they did not want to lose them. One may say, I am glad so-and-so is gone, there will be more room for me; but that is not the idea here. Personally they did not wish them to go, but they “let them go”. That is, they were in accord with [p. 408] the desire of the Spirit of God; that was their only thought.
FI If one moves out in any way from his local company in service and there is no blessing, should not that be an exercise in the local company? It is not that the local company sends you out, but that is where you are formed, and if there is no blessing as the result of your ministry that should be an exercise to all.
JT It should indeed. What you find with Barnabas and Saul in chapter 15 is a readiness to report to the assembly what God had wrought by them among the nations. It is a question of what God does by you.
Ques What is the thought of committal?
JT It is the laying on of hands. The saints commit themselves to those whom God uses. Whatever the work is that is going on, whatever little there is, those engaged in it should have the fellowship of the brethren in their local meeting. I think a brother ought to move that way, with the fellowship and the prayers of the brethren where he resides; they are letting him go. You will notice it is recorded in chapter 14: “And thence they sailed away to Antioch, whence they had been committed to the grace of God for the work which they had fulfilled”, verse 26. They did something; they did what they were sent to do. I believe if that were more in mind we should get more results. You have a definite end in view and you want to reach it. The position is very fine here, the assembly being largely the product of the ministry of these two brothers. They laboured in the assembly. It is an important matter to take account of where the instruction is given, that is, it is given in the assembly: “For a whole year they were gathered together in the assembly and taught a large crowd”. That is, the teaching went on where it could be applied immediately. It is not theoretical [p. 409] teaching. The verse I refer to everyone should study, Acts 11: 26. New Translation.
PAR What do you mean by the teaching being applied?
JT It is like a medical student going to the infirmary after the university to apply the instruction he has received. That is the idea here. The teaching was not the university, so to speak, it was where it could be applied. They were together in the assembly and the teaching would be applied at once. If Paul were to speak about the body the truth could be applied at once. It is a question of how you regard your brother next to you, whether you can hold yourself in relation to him on the principle of the body which is an organism.
PAR That would make it living.
JT It makes it very practical. In the setting up of the tabernacle in Exodus it was functioning, that is not like a house built and people living in it afterwards, but every portion functioning as it is put up. That is the idea. Teaching in the assembly is that you apply the truth as you get it; it becomes yourself, and then it is practical.
EWP You are formed by it.
FI Do you mean the one who presents it is formed by it?
JT He is formed by it, and those who hear are formed by it, too; they can apply it at once. They were “a large crowd” in Antioch, and they had not had such teaching. You can understand what questions there would be in the meetings, and as the questions came up. Paul or Barnabas would explain how the truth operated. It is not merely theory, but the thing operates, it becomes practical at once because the underlying principle in the things of God is love, and love of itself builds up; it is constructive. There is present a secret constructive principle as the ministry proceeds.
FI [p. 410] So that for the truth to be taken in you must be in the appreciation of the assembly setting.
JT Paul says at Corinth, “I have laid the foundation”, 1 Corinthians 3: 10. He gives the idea of what is fundamental, and every one intelligently working later would understand how his part must fit in there.
Ques So that the result of the teaching at Antioch came out in chapter 13?
JT That is the idea. The Spirit of God dwells upon it, speaking of the disciples as called christians; they “were first called Christians in Antioch”. The original word for “called” indicates that the name christians was applied to the disciples with care as conveying that they were truly according to their profession; it is as if God would have it that way. It is a distinctive feature, as if to honour the teaching and what was at Antioch. And then you have Barnabas and Saul going up to Jerusalem with money from Antioch to help the poor there; and then the Spirit shows us what was at Antioch in the way of gift and assembly formation — a result reached.
LDM A very interesting and practical result of the teaching found expression in the contribution for the poor, showing the working of love.
JT That is why it is brought in at that particular point, to show that active love was there. What God gets in the assembly is the most blessed side; and then the ministry manward in grace, for the assembly is to be the residence of grace. That is the idea in the cities of refuge.
But then there is the other side, that this assembly, being set up, Satan will not let it alone, but will attack it. That is one standpoint in Matthew, which gospel also shows how the attacks are to be met. Matthew is the only one that mentions the assembly by name. It is mentioned three times in this gospel, and each time it is in relation to evil: “hades’ gates shall not prevail against it”; and then, “tell it [the [p. 411] refusal of a trespassing brother to hear] to the assembly”; and then, “Whatsoever ye shall bind on the earth”. Evil is contemplated in each of these statements — the way the enemy attacks the assembly. So when the enemy attacks, it is wise to consult Matthew. It is important to consider the working of evil in all its stages, for there are many things that can be settled out of court, so to speak. The priests were the custodians of the law, and it is for the saints to see that the law is carried out, that the initial directions are followed as something wrong happens. This passage tells the offended person what to do.
Ques Would we thus learn to detect the evil and deal with it quickly?
JT Much is lost by delay. When a matter is made clear delay is always damaging. If it is not clear, of course, we wait. But the word here is, “Separate me now ...” They did it at once; and so, if evil comes up, it is wise to proceed at once, because delay will only confirm the evil and give greater opportunity to the enemy.
WP Would the conditions as seen in Acts 13 preserve the balance in connection with the movements in Matthew?
JT Quite so. The one is the inner side, Godward, but Matthew is the outer, in regard of government, showing how evil is dealt with in the assembly.
FI Is it government on the basis of grace?
JT Surely; the chapter is full of grace: not seven times is a brother to be forgiven, but seventy and seven times. There is grace, and dignity too, for the subject begins in chapter 16 where the assembly is introduced; and the Lord proceeds to take Peter and James and John up to the mount, that they might see things as they are in heaven, as it were; and what they see is in regard of government, for the Lord’s face shone as the sun. But they come down, and [p. 412] then you have the idea of sonship. It is a question of personality really; the three disciples were to understand by what they saw above that they were to be in dignity down here. It is the kingdom of the heavens, but carried out assembly-wise. It is the great design of God for the present time. The administration of the mind of heaven is carried out here in the assembly — an assembly composed of persons who have heavenly dignity. It involves Ephesians. Those forming the assembly belong to heaven; and they are sons. The sons are free; they are not under tribute. If I am under tribute to any person who offends another, if I am under obligation to him, that hinders my giving a judgment. I must be free. All this enters into Matthew chapters 16 to 18.
FWW So, while the thing may be personal to begin with, it is taken up as it affects the assembly. Are the instructions in chapter 18 for the assembly today?
JT The binding and the loosing are assembly prerogatives, Matthew 18: 18. I think you will see the idea of being free is important. If we are to have part in assembly decisions, we must be free from obligation to any of the parties. If I owe them anything, I am scarcely qualified, because preferences are apt to come in. They do come in and it is a great matter for those who compose the assembly to be in the light and acceptance of sonship, so that one is under special obligation to no one.
LDM “Ye are sons of Jehovah your God”, Deuteronomy 14: 1.
JT Yes. Heaven, while most discriminating, is also impartial. The Father makes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and so, we are to be without partiality in the administration of government in the assembly.
EWP That would be so if the Lord has His [p. 413] place.
JT The next thing after the subject of sonship is the question as to who is greatest in the kingdom of the heavens. Anyone seeking to be greatest is disqualified from acting in the assembly. The Lord called a little child to Him and set him as a model for the disciples.
EWP You mean that is the right kind of assembly material?
JT Yes. Smallness in one’s own estimation is stressed. The truly little ones are all very interesting to heaven: “their angels in the heavens continually behold the face of my Father who is in the heavens”. Heaven is very concerned about them, and this must be reflected in the assembly. Woe to him who causes them to stumble.
FI So if you move according to chapter 18 you do it as having before you that evil should not come into the assembly. Even if it is a personal matter or a brother is offended, you would move as having the assembly before you and not yourself.
JT Yes. In Deuteronomy 19 you have the three cities of refuge, meaning the residence of grace, and we make a way for the man slayer. Every advantage is given to him, but then, if he has slain a man in hatred the city of refuge gives him up to the avenger of blood. Then following on that, you have, “Thou shalt not remove thy neighbour’s landmark”; the local assembly’s position is not to be interfered with. An offending brother is left with his local company. And then the next thing is that no one witness is to arise against the brother; you must have two or three. And so a decision thus based on adequate witness is right. If a trespass takes place and the aggrieved person brings it to the brethren they must see to it. We might advise him to get to the Lord — that is his side, but we are bound to deal with the matter. The assembly represents the Lord and she must execute [p. 414] righteous government.
FWW Deuteronomy 19 provides for that which is done accidentally. We must search out the matter even if it is said to happen accidentally.
JT The parties are said to stand before Jehovah and before the priests and the judges; so that we are bound to look into the matter, and, in doing so, to insist on each party, so to speak, keeping the law. That is, the aggrieved party’s law is in these verses in Matthew 18. The trespasser has to respect chapter 5, that is, if he comes with his gift to the altar and remembers, as there, that his brother has aught against him, he must first be reconciled to his brother. I believe the assembly would be saved a great deal if those two laws were enforced. The priests are to see to the enforcement of the laws, and if those two laws are enforced, I believe a great deal could be settled out of court.
FWW I am sure of that, and I think we would do it more readily if we had the good of the whole company in view. One cannot overlook these things and expect the assembly to prosper.
JT That is what I was thinking. God has great regard for His laws or principles. The Lord magnified the law and made it honourable. God has great regard for His commandments, and He would love to see them made honourable, that there is power in the assembly to insist on the person who is aggrieved going to the person who has trespassed against him, also that one against whom another has a complaint should seek to be reconciled before offering his gift.
Ques In order to gain the brother?
JT That is the object in view.
FWW Have you any thought as to the judge and the priest? Why are there the two? The judge would have to do with the law.
JT I was referring to Deuteronomy 19: 17: “Then both the men between whom the controversy is shall stand before Jehovah, before the priests and [p. 415] the judges that shall be in those days; and the judges shall make thorough enquiry”. The priests would refer to spiritual state, and the judges to persons capable of going into the matter. They are the same persons of course, only I am challenged whether I am a priest, a spiritual person, before I am eligible to be a judge. A judge is a person with judicial ability.
Ques Do you think we should look at Acts 13 and Matthew 18 together?
JT I do. Acts 13 is the inner side; it is the priestly side; answering to this, you have ability to deal with administrative matters, matters of law. “For the priest’s lips should keep knowledge, and at his mouth they seek the law”, Malachi 2: 7. Then a judge is a person who can listen to testimony, and here you have two or three — adequate testimony. I believe the latter is one of the most important features of our position.
LDM All this would flow from the apprehension of sonship.
JT Matthew 16 and 17 underlie what we are speaking of.
LDM I wondered whether that is where we are weak. We do not feel the dignity of the position that is assailed.
FI Do you look at the verses read in chapter 18 as the law?
JT That is right, what the priests have to look after.
LDM The brother trespassed against, acting thus, needs “grace upon grace”.
FWW What is said suggests a limited period for the procedure.
JT Yes, we should not let such things drag on. That is often a painful feature amongst us; and then in those conditions we thrust ourselves before the Lord as if we were acceptable, as if He must bear [p. 416] with anything. He does bear with a good deal, but certainly we ought to enquire whether we force the Lord to accept certain things that we know He resents. I am speaking, of course, of known cases; there is sometimes the working of evil of which we are conscious but have no tangible evidence; as to such a case we must wait on the Lord.
EWP Is there danger in leaving things to become cumulative?
JT Yes, for they become an incubus on the meeting. The assembly is the greatest court, so to speak, and God resents its being disregarded. It is His own institution. “Tell it to the assembly”, the Lord says; the two or three witnesses have the assembly in mind. You have persons coming before the judges taking two or three witnesses. They have to bear witness somewhere, and the witness is to be borne in the assembly.
Ques How do you tell it to the assembly?
JT Acts 15 helps us as to telling the thing. “The apostles and the elders were gathered together to see about this matter”, it says, and then the matter is laid before them. That is the principle. I should say it is at the “care meeting”. The principle is that you lay the matter before the elders, and in due course it is brought before the assembly. The care meeting is not the assembly, of course, but it leads to it. The care meeting has no administrative authority.
Ques Would you say a word as to binding and loosing? What goes on today?
JT Primarily it is dispensational; it would have allusion to the sin of Christ’s crucifixion being bound on Israel. The binding comes first here. In John, as we have often remarked, remission comes before the retention of sins. John is rather our position now, that our attitude is grace. It is really more like the cities of refuge. But here, the binding comes first because it belongs to the dispensation, the final [p. 417] prerogative lying with the assembly. That is how the matter stands as far as it relates to the Jew. The thing is bound on him and he has to deal with God about it now. The binding and loosing here apply also to an individual, of course.
Ques Would you say a word as to the expression, “If also he will not listen to the assembly?” Would you think that after the assembly meeting and the person in question has been told, you would expect him to listen?
JT That is the order. The assembly has an authoritative voice, its judgment is final, and any one who refuses it is to be regarded as a heathen man and a publican. He is not fit for fellowship.
Rem And that is ratified in heaven.
JT Which is very solemn. It shows that God has furnished us with the means of dealing with evil as heaven does it, and heaven is behind us in what we do.
Rem It has the full authority of heaven.
JT “Bound in heaven” is a very strong word. We do not half believe in these statements. God would have us believe in them, and in acting on them we magnify the law, we magnify the assembly, and we magnify heaven.