CHRIST AMONG THE NATIONS
[p. 378] CHRIST AMONG THE NATIONS
Colossians 1:24 - 29; Genesis 41:39 - 52; Genesis 43:16
JT The passage in Colossians is suggested because in it Paul speaks of the mystery of Christ among the nations; he says, “to whom God would make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the nations, which is Christ in you the hope of glory: whom we announce, admonishing every man, and teaching every man, in all wisdom, to the end that we may present every man perfect in Christ. Whereunto also I toil, combating according to his working, which works in me in power”. Colossians 1:27 - 29 The hope is that we shall see what Colossians has in mind in this, the nations being in view and the nations only. Ephesians contemplates Jew and gentile; the full thought, and the type entering into that would be Isaac, whereas it is thought that Joseph is the type that fits in with Colossians. Joseph is a man of toil, a man of great affairs; the food of the world was put under his charge. The verse in Genesis 43 is to call attention to the fact that he seemingly had just time to meet his brethren at noon; whereas Isaac had plenty of time, for he went out to meditate in the field; he is under no special charge, he was looking for Rebecca; that is, Christ and the assembly are in mind. The full thought is set out in Genesis 24.
Joseph is fully occupied, especially now in toil. It is thought that this side of the truth should be better known amongst us, and that the Lord would help us at this time in looking at it thus. It is “Christ in you”; Colossians 1:27; Colossians presenting in this what is among the nations. So the passage in Genesis 41 serves to bear all this out. Pharaoh said to Joseph, “Since God has made all this known to thee, there is none so discreet and wise as thou. Thou shalt be over my house, and according to thy commandment shall all my people regulate themselves; only concerning the throne will I be greater than thou”. Genesis 41:39,40.
[p. 379] We are told then how old Joseph was, thirty years of age. “And Joseph went out from Pharaoh, and passed through the whole land of Egypt”. Genesis 41:46. There is no thought of his having any leisure, or any time allotted to him. Although Deuteronomy 24:5, speaks of a year being allotted to a man when he takes a new wife, there was nothing of this with Joseph; whereas there was with Isaac; so here it says, “And to Joseph were born two sons before the year of famine came” Genesis 41:50, and of these he said, “God has caused me to be fruitful in the land of my affliction”. Genesis 41:52. I think we can see in this brief outline the great difference to be noted between Isaac and Joseph in regard to the marriage question, and in regard to administration.
Ques Would the type help us to realise the great value of time and the great matters that are on hand in the administration?
JT I think many of us feel that time is about the scarcest thing we have, and therefore it becomes a question as to how we can use it, and especially in regard to the service of God. Colossians, as the brethren would know, is more limited than Ephesians; it treats of the position of Christ now in view of the Jews being given up according to Paul’s statement in Acts 18:6, “from henceforth I will go to the nations”. In view of the Lord’s coming, the work of the ministry is now a question of what is among the gentiles in remnant character; and there is need for the right use of time, and the preparation that it affords in view of the rapture, in view of the heavenly position.
WJ Is it encouraging that the working is in power?
JT I think that. The word in Colossians 1:29, is, “Whereunto also I toil, combating according to his working, which works in me in power”.
WJ Is the apostle in sympathy with the Lord in that?
JT The apostle would represent the feelings [p. 380] of the Lord in heaven. The Lord had said of him, that he “is an elect vessel to me”, “for I will show to him how much he must suffer for my name”. Acts 9:15,16. Paul himself tells us how far he travelled in the service carrying the testimony of the Christ among the nations, because he was appointed “to be minister of Christ Jesus to the nations”. Romans 15:16. He tells us in Romans 15:19, how far he had travelled, and he says, “from Jerusalem, and in a circuit round to Illyricum”, (I) “have fully preached the glad tidings of the Christ”. He says further, “Wherefore also I have been often hindered from coming to you”; Romans 15:22, meaning, to the Romans. He speaks also in this passage of going to Spain; hence the nations, and especially the West, are in mind in Paul’s ministry. There is little or nothing in the East. What was is gone, but as regards those who are actually in the truth in the East, that is, in Asia, there are hardly any except a few, so that God is clearly showing that the position is in the West. It is a small position, a remnant position, nevertheless it is to be marked by Paul’s energy and the love that would mark him as representing the Lord, as one who loved the Lord and who knew the Lord’s love for him.
HGH Would you say, that it is part of the mystery that food is now among the nations? Is that involved in the mystery referring to Colossians?
JT It is remarkable even as regards physical food, the western nations have it, but you are speaking of spiritual food. God is ordering everything according to His own will, and we see that things are working up to an end, and that end is to bring out the assembly, at least in the principle of it; and something too of the order and love and intelligence that characterise it; especially intelligence. So that Joseph is an apt type of Christ, and of the power of Christ in others at the present time; a working man, as you might say, and yet a man of great administrative power; a man of God, a young man, a man loved of his father, as Christ is.
ECM [p. 381] Would that link up with the Lord in John’s gospel, “The Father loves the Son, and has given all things to be in his hand”, John 3:35. I was thinking of the administration in John, it is through Him.
JT That is what we thought of, and it is the point for the moment. I think it is the question of the Father and the Son and the Spirit, especially the Spirit as to actual operations; the Spirit remaining here now and the saints having come back to the truth of the Holy Spirit so that His operations go on. We have these meetings, and they are resultful all over the world where the saints are.
Ques Does this epistle to the Colossians have in mind the effectiveness of the Spirit’s work in the saints? We have often noticed that there is no mention of the Spirit except “love in the Spirit”, Colossians 1:18, but His work seems to shine out.
JT Hence in the dark ages and up to the Reformation there is hardly anything of what we call subjective truth, but now there is. Colossians has that in mind; it is what the Spirit has wrought in the saints. Presently it will be said, “What hath God wrought”. Numbers 23:23. The more, of course, we recognise the work of God the more we shall see that; just as we have been reminded in the last verse of Colossians 1, “Whereunto also I toil, combating according to his working, which works in me in power”. Colossians 1:29. As far as I know, the work of God is going on in a remarkable way.
WJ Does it fit in with the thought of the kingdom of the Son of His love in power?
JT Just so; that is in this epistle.
AMP Are we to take on the toil that leads to it? Paul says, in the opening of chapter 2, that he embraced in his combat, even “as many as have not seen my face in flesh”. Colossians 2:1. His toil would be deepened in that way by the difficulties of the position, just as Joseph’s was.
JT He speaks of it more than once, and he speaks of it in others, which, I think, is a thing we should pay attention to also, besides speaking of what is with Paul [p. 382] and what is in Christ Himself, but in others such as Epaphras. As you said already, it embraces “as many as have not seen my face in the flesh”. Colossians 2:1. We have the thought in Colossians 4; “Epaphras, who is one of you, the bondman of Christ Jesus”, “always combating earnestly for you in prayers”. Colossians 4:12. So that the principle of toil is in the epistle, and, therefore, one is encouraged to bring in Joseph, because he is the type that represents it peculiarly and also a type of Christ as having His spouse. There is nothing said of Joseph having the year of rest, in taking a new wife; he keeps on, toils on, he cannot evade it, because of the immensity of the work. Likewise the brethren have very little time, for the Lord would have us to keep on at the work, knowing that “your labour is not in vain in the Lord”. 1 Corinthians 15:58. It is a time of labour.
Ques Is that why the nations are particularly in view?
JT Quite so; involving travel. We have become accustomed to this lately, the young men especially, for the globe has been covered by them in ordinary work, and God surely is helping us to take in the extent of His work.
PHH Did you say just now there was a difference in the marriage question and the administration question? The difference between Colossians and Ephesians, Joseph and Isaac, particularly bearing on the marriage question and the administration question. I think you said there was a great difference.
JT I think there is. Ephesians is the prime apostolic epistle. It embraces the assembly in its entirety. It embraces it as seen in Eve and Rebecca, whereas in Joseph we come down to an Egyptian person and there is not anything very distinctive about her, save that she is a priest’s daughter, which is something. Joseph in his marriage time is a man of toil, he has an immense amount of toil to deal with.
I thought that we might speak first of Ephesians, and Genesis 24. According to the type, in Deuteronomy 24,
[p. 383] when a man married a new wife he had a year exempt from toil and combat, but there is nothing like that allotted to Joseph; he has to go on with the work, and he does go on and succeeds in it. The hope is that the Lord will enable the brethren in these closing days to go on with the work, and to go on with it in intelligence knowing “that your labour is not in vain in the Lord”, 1 Corinthians 15:58, with the end in view that the results are for heaven.
PHH Were you thinking that we ought to come into the light of the assembly in its wifely characteristic before we can go on with the administration, because Joseph was married before he went out over the land. Is that right?
JT There is something in that, but it does not come up to what is suggested in Isaac. He was a man of leisure; he was doing nothing in the way of toil as far as we see. He is seen in Genesis 24 as coming from the well Lahai-roi, coming to it and going from it, but there is no toil suggested. Then he is meditating in the field, and he lifts up his eyes and he sees the camels, not Rebecca, but the power by which Rebecca is carried; it does not say he sees Rebecca, but he sees the camels. The difference between Joseph and Isaac is quite manifested.
PHH You mean the type of the assembly in Asnath is more limited?
JT It is more limited than what is suggested in Rebecca.
Rem So that with Joseph this great thought of the dispensation or administration seems to be what is mainly occupying his mind. He just snatches an hour at noon to spend with his brethren. He is over this great administration for God.
JT That is the thing to see. It is not the time of leisure for us, it is the time of toil, redeeming the time, making the best of it.
ECM Is that seen in the Lord Himself in John 4? The Lord is there toiling when the disciples had gone away to buy food. His answer to them is “[p. 384] My food is that I should do the will of him that has sent me, and that I should finish his work. Do not ye say, that there are yet four months and the harvest comes”? John 4:34,35. Would the Lord be seen toiling there in John 4 in view of the woman being secured? He speaks of finishing the work.
JT Just so. There was work to do that they knew not of. Colossians is the time of being hidden, not of making a show at all. “Your life is hid with the Christ in God”; Colossians 3:3; but still life is there, and so the work of the Spirit is in view in the epistle, as has already been remarked, it is the effect of the Spirit’s work, not exactly the Spirit actually working, but the effect of it in us. The work of God is proceeding and with no particular show attaching to it, because our life is hid with Christ in God. Yet the work is going on and that is the great thing to keep in mind and to be encouraged when we see it.
FW In Malachi 1:1, it reads, “For from the rising of the sun even unto its setting my name shall be great among the nations; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure oblation: for my name shall be great among the nations, saith Jehovah of hosts”. Do you think with the light of that in his soul the apostle would be encouraged to toil on?
JT Well, it is the time of the fulness of the nations, if we think of the spiritual side. While not ignoring what may come in in the millennium, which is now imminent, when the nations will be brought into blessing, there is what is present of the fulness of the nations through Paul’s work, and the results seen in the assembly. So that we are toiling in view of results, and God would encourage us in what results appear, not simply a number of persons brought into blessing, but the increase in growth in the saints.
JGW In the beginning of Paul’s history as he came under heaven’s influence he had the word “rise up and enter into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do”. Acts 9:6. Would that have a bearing on what you are suggesting?
JT [p. 385] Quite so. Like Joseph he had to work as a journeyman. He was to be told what he must do; he was not simply commissioned as an apostle, but told what to do by persons who were not distinctive. They are the kind of persons whom God would use, and Paul had to learn from them. We are all to be learners from each other, and even from persons who may be inferior to ourselves. So Joseph had a hard time of it in the beginning. He was a man of toil, a man of sorrow and he said, “God has made me forget all my toil, and all my father’s house”, Genesis 41:51, showing that God took account of all that he had to endure.
FGH Would you say a word as to what the apostle speaks of here; presenting every man perfect in Christ? What is in view exactly in that?
JT It was the work that he undertook. Paul was prepared not simply to have good meetings and the like, big meetings it may be, but for what results from these; his thought was to present every man perfect in Christ. “Whom we announce, admonishing every man, and teaching every man, in all wisdom, to the end that we may present every man perfect in Christ”. Colossians 1:28. The Lord had taken him up having all this in view; he was an elect vessel unto Him, and would go to the full length in everything that was required, and hence he tells us in the second letter to Corinth, what he endured, what lie experienced in carrying out the thing that he had in mind. He said he had espoused the Corinthians as a chaste virgin to Christ, 2 Corinthians 11. He had a measure that in his mind would reach to Spain, and he certainly had a measure that reached to Rome.
AH How wide are you carrying this thought of labour, as wide as the apostle makes it in Acts 20? He speaks there of his admonishing, his teaching, and he also refers to these hands.
JT Just so. The others did not do that. The other apostles did not go to the length that he went to.
“[p. 386] These hands have ministered to my wants, and to those who were with me”. Acts 20:34. He would do anything needed; he would gather a bundle of sticks to make a fire, he would do anything that was needed. The twelve said that they would devote themselves to the word of God and prayer and they placed others in charge of tables, which may be right, but at the same time Paul did not seek to avoid the work of a deacon. He would do anything that was needed. I think that is the thing to see. We have to be ready to do anything that is needed for the promotion of the service of God and the growth of the saints.
G Would chapter 4:17 emphasise what you are saying? It reads, “and say to Archippus, Take heed to the ministry which thou hast received in the Lord, to the end that thou fulfil it”. Colossians 4:17.
JT That is very appropriate as belonging to Colossians. Even Timotheus himself needed a similar word, as in 2 Timothy 1:6. There was a certain hesitancy about him, and Paul enjoined him to rekindle the gift that he had; and that is a word for us all. It is a question not only of getting the mind of God in the Scriptures, but of applying it, and seeing the effect of the application of it in carrying out the work of God, because the end would be “What hath God wrought”. Numbers 23:23. God is working through us now. Christ is not here, but the Spirit is and the work is carried on by us.
JGW He speaks of completing the word of God. Is that part of his work?
JT See the number of services he had. He had the ministry of reconciliation, the ministry of the assembly, the ministry of the gospel, and to complete the word of God. Not simply that he would preach a good sermon, as he would, but complete the word of God. What exercise that must have meant.
Rem The Lord’s word in Mark 10:43 - 45, says, “whosoever would be great among you, shall be your minister; and whosoever would be first of you shall be bondman of [p. 387] all. For also the Son of man did not come to be ministered to, but to minister, and give his life a ransom for many”.
JT That would bear on it, and then negatively, how John Mark we are told “departed”, “and went not with them to the work”, Acts 15:38. How many have done that and so the gospel of Mark would be the gospel to support what we are speaking about.
CH Are these subjective results, that you are speaking of, suggested in our last scripture where it says that “Joseph saw Benjamin” Genesis 43:16, and then he gave instruction to bring in his brethren. He recognised in Benjamin what came from the same source as himself, the same mother.
JT He was the one who was added. God will add to me another son, Rachel said. The whole family of Jacob was complete; the twelve tribes. The idea of twelve is administration, but Joseph was the eleventh son, and therefore the family was not complete in him, but it was completed in Benjamin; so that one can understand how his heart would be affected by seeing Benjamin. Benjamin is the son of his father’s right hand. So that the work is to go on. The gospel of Mark is on that principle, the right hand; Christ set down at the right hand of God. Mark presents that fact to us. It is a question of administration. It is a question of a man being able to sit down and think out things and know what to do; and that is what the Lord is engaged in. He is the Son of His Father’s right hand.
PHH Apart from the special work which Mark had, or Paul, or others, we read in Mark’s gospel that the man, having left his house, gave “to his bondmen the authority, and to each one his work”, Mark 13:34. Would that fit in with the dispensation?
JT Very good. The Lord takes the place there in that very passage of not having any leisure, because it is question of workmanship and overseership, to every man his work, and of watching too. He says,
“[p. 388] what I say to you, I say to all, Watch”. Mark 13:37. So Mark, according to the facts, would bring out how unsuccessful the twelve were as the Lord rose from the dead. Chapter 16 brings out a state of confusion even in the women, for they said nothing to anyone, and the eleven were unbelieving, and so the Lord is saying throughout that chapter, that it is a question of faith, of believing or disbelieving, and the disciples were disbelieving, and so the Lord upbraids them for their unbelief even after Mary Magdalene had brought her report. The Lord Himself regards the whole position as if the result as regards them is to be a failure. So the Lord takes the matter in hand Himself and that is what He has done in our own times. Mark would say the official class has failed, faith is not there, and the Lord takes the matter on Himself and appears to Mary Magdalene out of whom He had cast seven demons. That was His work and He has had to do that in our own time. He sends Mary Magdalene and she comes and tells the apostles that she had seen the Lord, but they did not believe her, and then He found them and upbraided them with their unbelief. They did not believe, but after all this happens the Lord sends them out to preach. How marvellous that He should send them out to preach with such a record, but it shows that, at the bottom, the work of God existed, and we get results on the lines that He lays down; that is to say, that the work of God is there. It is not now an apostolic condition, but at the same time the work of God exists, and we can count on results, and so the word is, “He that believes and is baptised shall be saved”. Mark 16:16. Not that he should be baptised but that he is baptised. The Lord proceeds on these lines and sends the apostles out to preach, telling them that one who believes and is baptised shall be saved, and then He tells them what shall result in them as having faith and how He would be with them; “the Lord working with them, and confirming the word by the signs following upon it”. Mark 16:20. Like the One who went up and sat at the right hand of [p. 389] God, the disciples now went everywhere preaching. There was real power in their service; because the idea in Mark is that by this means the work of God exists. It may be covered over by much, but as soon as the service is proceeded with, you get results. The thing, however, is not to sit down, but to go everywhere and to preach and the Lord would be with us, the signs following.
Ques Have you in mind in bringing these things before us that we should be fully occupied while He is coming? I was connecting what you are saying with your last visit to this town — What is your occupation?
JT That is it; we are to be fully occupied, not be men of leisure. We cannot afford to give up our work. We need to be doing something, there is plenty to do, and the thing is, What our hand finds to do, do it with our might. That is what Mark would produce in us.
Ques Do you think that whatever benefits the Egyptians received as a result of Joseph’s administrative working, what particularly was in mind was Joseph’s brethren?
JT That is what is in the mind of God, as we have said as to the family. Joseph was the eleventh son born and Rachel said that the Lord would add another son. He became the son of her sorrow, but the son of his father’s right hand. The work grows and the power comes to carry on with the work. Here Paul’s thought was to complete the word of God. How great a thing that is!
W Paul commends the Thessalonians for their work of faith and labour of love, and patience of hope of our Lord Jesus Christ. Would they be an example for us today?
JT That truth is in every chapter of the first epistle and that is a word for us; to love His appearing; to lay hold of the promises that attach to His appearing and use them; cause them to be elements of strength in our souls; lay hold [p. 390] of the promises.
FGH Referring to Mark once again it is recorded of the Lord Jesus that “He does all things well”. Mark 7:37. Would that bring in the thought of quality in the work?
JT I think that is good. It refers at that particular point to a man who could not speak right; that is an important matter, that the Lord causes him to speak right. That is where it is said that “He does all things well; he makes both the deaf to hear, and the speechless to speak”. Mark 7:37. These things are all needed for the work, the point is to carry on the work.
PHH Would the enjoyment of sonship help us to continue in this? I was thinking of it as having permeated the history of Joseph and the great matter of sonship as given to us by Paul. Would the enjoyment of this relationship help us in the continuance and dignity of the work?
JT I would say that, especially in the light of what is said in Philippians which is an epistle full of enjoyment. “Rejoice in the Lord always: again I will say, Rejoice”. Philippians 4:4. We are very poor in the way of enjoyment, in the amount of joy that we have. We read often about the Lord’s joy and of Paul’s joy. It is a question of proceeding definitely with an end in view, with results in view that are essential to the accomplishment of the purposes of God, that what we have must synchronise with the purposes of God.
FWK Would the apostle’s reference to fellow-bondmen and fellow-labourers help where the thought of co-operation in the service is suggested?
JT Very good. There is not so much of that now, of our brethren moving out together and accomplishing results, as there was years ago. I think the work is going on steadier now than then. Certain things were accomplished then in the way of converts, but what is going on now has another world in mind, “that world and the resurrection”, Luke 20:35, and every man to be presented “perfect in Christ”. Colossians 1:28. It is not to be a world of defectives or undergrowths, but of full growth and sonship. The ministry is in view of that; “until we all arrive at the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, at the full-grown man, at the measure of the stature of the fulness of the Christ; in order that we may be no longer babes”, Ephesians 4:13,14. The babe stage must finish and we must get on to manhood.
JGW How would you differentiate between the activities that are in christendom and the work that you are pressing us to be engaged in?
JT The mind of God is that we should work according to the pattern. It does not appear in the creation, but in the moral system the great thought is pattern; Moses was shown a pattern. David did things by the Spirit, but Moses was shown the pattern of what was to be made. We are not to be toiling to no purpose, but to work, even in a public sense as having the pattern before us, and the kind of materials. Then to reach the end, the word of God unfolding what is in God’s mind.
WJ Joseph’s name is The Revealer of Secrets; the apostle came into the good of it, when he was discouraged at Corinth. The Lord said to him, “I have much people in this city”. Acts 18:10. He revealed the secret of His mind to him.
JT That is a good point; for it was a special time in the history of Paul. He had been to Thessalonica and had opened out the testimony of Christ, showing what was in mind, and then he proceeded to Athens. Corinth was undoubtedly in mind. He went to Athens and they say, “What would this chatterer say”? Acts 17:18. That is what they thought, and he prefers just to say a word about the creation and what is visible and what anyone can see. Then he goes to Corinth and he has to wait for Timotheus and Silvanus and while waiting he reasons with Jews and Greeks. When they come he is pressed in respect of he word and later the Lord appears to him saying, “Fear not, but speak”, “because I am with thee”. Acts 18:9,10. The Lord was with him to support and to protect him, saying to him, “I have much people in this city”. Acts 18:10. I think [p. 392] that is the idea. The question now is to have the mind of God and to apply it to that material, and the epistles to Corinth are to show how Paul laboured to bring material round to the mind of God. It is not to be so many persons, as at Antioch, Acts 11; but he and Barnabas, we are told, taught for a whole year in the assembly and so a great crowd of material was added. Their work was assembly work; they worked for a year at it, and the result was that the pattern was carried out; the divine idea was there, and hence it is said that the disciples were first called christians at Antioch; they were full-grown men. The divine ideal was there, not simply in so many persons, but in an assembly setting. That is the point to get hold of, and to be working on this point like Paul and Apollos. Paul planted and Apollos watered and God gave the increase; it is a question of work. If the work of any man be burnt up; notice it is work, well, there is nothing left but himself; that is, he is saved, but as by fire.
JCT What have you in mind regarding Genesis 41:48? Joseph gathered the food and stored it in the cities. Does it suggest that the great wealth that is available is to be seen in an administrative setting in our local gatherings?
JT That is, in the cities. The cities were to be used, and the environment of the cities. The results of the work would be stored up and there would be nothing lost. The idea presented in Joseph is successful and industrious working and the result could not even be reckoned, the amount of corn that was available was so great. What a word today for the world in the shortage of corn! What the true Joseph would do at the present time and what will be seen in those who follow Him in a spiritual way, the end synchronising with the work of God.
PD Would you say that what you had before you as to toiling and the divine pattern, is seen in the last two verses of Matthew’s gospel? There we have the idea of [p. 393] making of disciples, which involves toiling, the pattern being seen in the twelve. Then the disciples are baptised into the divine economy and taught to observe all things that the Lord had said.
JT Making disciples raises a very interesting question; that is, the idea of sowing a seed, of sowing persons as seed. The Son of man sows persons, good seed; the sons of the kingdom; Matthew 13: 38. What you say raises this question as to what there is, what kind of persons are sown in different parts by the Lord; they are those who look after His interests. The Lord said to the twelve, “Have ye understood all these things? They say to Him, Yea, Lord”. Matthew 13:51. He does not question that. It shows that they were learning from what He was saying, and then the Lord says, “For this reason every scribe discipled to the kingdom of the heavens is like a man that is a householder who brings out of his treasure things new and old”. Matthew 13:52. That is to say, the New Testament first and the Old second, but the scribe discipled to the kingdom of heaven is like a householder, an industrious man, who cares for things and makes good use of them. The sons of the kingdom are sown by the Lord. He places them throughout the whole area of the testimony; they are reliable and to be called upon to look after His interests at any time. They are sons of the kingdom and they are sown under the Lord’s hand at any time and for any purpose that He requires.