THE ASSEMBLY AND THE TEMPLE OF GOD

^[p. 482] THE ASSEMBLY AND THE TEMPLE OF GOD

Galatians 4:25 - 31; Ephesians 2:11 - 22

JT The passage in Galatians is read to call attention to the statement in verse 26, “Jerusalem above is free, which is our mother”, Galatians 4:26, that there may be opportunity to speak together of Jerusalem in this sense, “Jerusalem above”. There is in this a reference to a feature of the dispensation which may be called metropolitanism, not in any bad sense, but as ordered of God at the beginning, because of the need of centralisation then as the testimony moved forward into its full position of characterising this dispensation. And then the passage in Ephesians is read because it contains a significant statement that the assembly grows “to a holy temple in the Lord”. Ephesians 2:21. It is hoped that this phase of the truth will enable us to speak of the power of revelation, of meeting current needs and questions as to the truth, these involving inquiry, as the scripture says, “to inquire of him in his temple”. Psalm 27:4. It is thought that these two passages may be linked together profitably and that it may be seen further that both passages bear on the millennium. The Galatian side bears on it as to the assembly’s function in that day, in the sense of rule and administration, and the Ephesian side shows the assembly’s function as the temple, affording opportunity for inquiry. So that the whole millennial position and kingdom may be understood by those who are in it, that is those in the earthly side of it, for the heavenly side is occupied by the assembly which has the mind of God. As regards the metropolitan feature of the truth, which is in no sense to be discredited, it is to be remarked that it began with Pentecostal times, and continued on until probably chapter 14 of the book of Acts, where eldership is formally recognised by the appointment of such ^[p. 483] through the service of apostles, Barnabas and Paul. In Acts 9:31, the authorities give variations of the Greek word, but if it be assemblies as in the New Translation, it would mean that the order of local assemblies, governed by eldership had begun, so that the testimony should go forward freely, and that the government of God should be seen in it as in this provisional time.

Ques Is it the thought that we should be brought into the liberty connected with our mother?

JT That is clearly the thought; the main thought indeed in the epistle to the Galatians is to establish christian liberty, but there is more than that in mind now; there is the character of the government of the assembly in the early days of its existence down here, what the mind of God was in that, and what there is in the contrast of the present time of local assemblies. We should inquire what that contrast may afford in the way of instruction for us, because Paul says, “thus I ordain in all the assemblies”, 1 Corinthians 7:17, meaning they were all to be regulated by the same principles.

LPM Does the title, “the assemblies of Galatia” 1 Corinthians 16:1, indicate that a certain group had lost some features of the truth, and Paul is ministering in view of that, so that a certain area is in mind?

JT Quite so, the province of Galatia apparently was particularly affected, and Paul uses extremely strong language to rebuke the error that they allowed themselves to fall into.

Ques Are you looking at local assemblies as the children of the Jerusalem above, rather than looking at us individually?

JT Well, that is the idea. Of course, each child has an individuality, you mean. There is individuality among the children, that they might “stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free”. Galatians 5:1. It is thought that this liberty flows out of the assembly’s relation with Christ above, and the Spirit here. On the ^[p. 484] other hand, that out of which the saints, that is to say, gentiles, were delivered at that time was paganism. In the Roman Empire the religious idea had a central position in mind and government; all worked out from a central position. That position was abolished, but was just replaced by what is now known as Roman Catholicism, which is the most sorrowful thing in the whole universe, because it is aimed at the replacement of the whole system of christianity, whereas Jerusalem above is to maintain christianity, the word above meaning simply that it is above morally. It is not called heavenly Jerusalem here in Galatians, but “Jerusalem above” implying moral elevation, whereas the Romish system is moral degradation, the subject of the judgment of God at any time.

SMcC In regard to metropolitanism as it appears in Jerusalem in relation to the ministry of the twelve, would you say something as to the change-over in the introduction of Paul’s ministry?

JT Paul is the author of the epistle to the Galatians and his ministry enters into it peculiarly. He says God “was pleased to reveal his Son in me, that I may announce him as glad tidings among the nations”, Galatians 1:16, and sonship in Christ as revealed to Paul implied “Jerusalem above”, and the liberty that christianity has set up. If we revert back to Paul’s advent, he it was who with Barnabas set up the system that we are dealing with. Acts 9 tells us of the conversion of Paul, and how he announced Jesus as the Son of God, which involved the very kernel of the whole matter of the liberty of christianity. So that what we are speaking of really awaited the presence of Paul. What the twelve were going on with was, of course, according to God, and it is said that those that were converted “persevered in the teaching and fellowship of the apostles, in breaking of bread and prayers”, Acts 2:42, meaning that they were subject to the ministry of the twelve, but under that ministry it was in the main the ^[p. 485] assembly at Jerusalem, that is the feature of the assembly that is in mind. The word assembly generally meant that assembly at Jerusalem. So that as soon as Paul is commissioned, as he was according to Acts 13, the idea of assemblies appeared. Passing over chapter 9, if we look at chapter 14:23, which has been already alluded to, we shall see the formal recognition of assemblies, the plural idea. It is said there “having chosen them elders in each assembly, having prayed with fastings, they committed them to the Lord, on whom they had believed”. Acts 14:23. This, I think, is the first reference to the formal appointment of elders, and they are in each assembly, not in the assembly at Jerusalem, not specially there, but in each assembly elsewhere.

PHH Would you think that the man who was made to walk in the earlier part of chapter 14 gives a kind of idea how each individual assembly must now be able to comport itself?

JT That is a helpful suggestion, I would say, and remark at the same time that the man had never walked; that is not said of the man in chapter 3, you will remember; this man had never walked. It was a gentile position, and of course the gentile position is in view in Paul’s appointment, therefore the walk of the saints must be taken into account, in fact the very word is implied in the word way, as governing the early polity of the assembly, as I might call it. It begins with Paul really, he was against it, he persecuted those that were of it, but he was himself converted in order to establish the idea of the way, that is to say, the way of God. The way of God implies local assemblies, that is to say, the testimony has taken that form, the Spirit of God operating in it, and the epistles to Corinth are specially in mind to open up the idea of the way of God as it worked out under Paul in the gentile world.

Rem Paul says to the Galatians, “Walk in the Spirit”, Galatians 5:16, they were not only to start with that walk in the Spirit,

^[p. 486] but they were to continue in it to the end, without any fleshly influence ever diverting them from the path.

JT Very good, they would not fulfil the lusts of the flesh if they did that. That chapter gives us the marks of the Spirit, the fruit of the Spirit, a nine-branched tree, you might say, as to fruit borne by the Spirit, which would work out in the unity of the assemblies. In 1 Corinthians 1, immediately after verse 9, it is said that the Corinthian saints were disunited, they were not governed by the Spirit.

GHSP Is it noticeable that immediately after the reference to the assemblies in the plural in chapter 9, it says that they “were increased through the comfort of the Holy Spirit”? Acts 9:31.

JT Yes, if we assume that the original has the word assemblies, but, of course, the truth of what you mean would be there, anyway; whereas in chapter 14 a leading feature of the truth governing the assemblies is unity, the unity of the Spirit, as Ephesians teaches, to be kept by us “in the uniting bond of peace”. Ephesians 4:3. If the Spirit is recognised in that sense, there will be peace and comfort, the comfort of the Holy Spirit.

PHH Are we to understand then, that the assemblies as set up under Paul’s ministry, are like his children; he refers to himself in Thessalonians as a nursing mother? Is that your thought, that the children in this chapter in Galatians are to be the children of the Jerusalem above? Do I understand that it works out through Paul?

JT I would go fully with that, in that Paul’s teaching is mainly to establish unity and to maintain it. That is the great need now in all the assemblies of the brethren, that there should be practical unity. And so the metropolitan thought has to be transferred to heaven to get right now, to get the idea of it. It certainly is not in the Romish system, nor in the Anglican system, nor in the Presbyterian system, nor in any others. It is in Jerusalem ^[p. 487] above, which means what is morally elevated above all these things; and Paul’s ministry is to maintain that and carry it through. So that he says, “thus I ordain in all the assemblies”. 1 Corinthians 7:17. There is no idea of one assembly holding one thought and another another, as if independency in any way ruled amongst us.

Ques As regards the metropolitan idea, is it in your mind that the metropolis is transferred from earth to heaven at the death of Stephen?

JT That is what I would say; the death of Stephen implied that the Jewish system was being set aside, not wholly yet, but nigh to it, and that would make room for the assembly as it is constituted for the moment to maintain the testimony, and the idea of the transfer from earth is a thing to be thought of. It has already been remarked that the thought is not exactly heaven, but above; that is to bring out the moral superiority of the assembly’s position.

Rem As you get in Colossians 3:1, “seek the things which are above”, morally elevated and removed from every fleshly and worldly thought.

JT Just so, “where the Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God”. Colossians 3:1.

LPM Would you say a little more as to the expression, “thus I ordain in all the assemblies”. 1 Corinthians 7:17.

JT Well, one has found sorrowfully within recent years, when the matter of collections for the saints arose, the special collection for the need of the brethren, for the saints, that a great divergence of thought existed; local assemblies adopted their own principles and moved in them. I am not accusing any, but I know what I am saying is so, and, of course, this expression in 1 Corinthians 7:17 applies in a case like that, “thus I ordain in all the assemblies”; that is to say, that the assemblies should be all governed by the same principles. That should go without saying, but it does not always.

JSE Does that make metropolitanism attractive as ^[p. 488] coming in this epistle, where the letter is addressed to so many assemblies? Would that help us to see that we all are to be governed by the same principles?

JT Well, I think that is so. You move about and no doubt you know something about what I have been remarking on. The apostle in writing this letter says, “All the brethren with me”, Galatians 1:2, meaning that he was in the truth himself; and he was asserting it, he was asserting that he had the truth and that he was in it himself, and that the brethren that were with him were in it too; and so he associated with him as many as he could; no doubt, those that were with him. So that these Galatian saints should conform to the truth and come back to the liberty which they were leaving.

SMcC In Ephesians we have reference in regard to the work of the ministry to the unity of the faith, but would what we have in Galatians here involve what is constitutional, “Jerusalem above is free, which is our mother”. Galatians 4:26. There has been much light coming to us in the ministry as to what is right, but do you think, perhaps, that we have been defective along the line of what is constitutional in relation to Paul’s ministry here in Galatians?

JT Constitutional is a good word in this connection, and it certainly is in accord with the idea of mother. The thought of mother city or the metropolis, is found with David; he took from the Philistines Metheg-ha-ammah (2 Samuel 8:1) which meant the bridle of the mother city, the metropolis. That is to teach us that where legal principles or worldly principles are adopted, the saints are apt to be captivated, and David called attention to that, just as in 2 Samuel 20:19 the wise woman of Abel spoke of “a mother in Israel”. So it is that mothers and fathers as they are spoken of in the Scriptures, such as Paul and John and others including sisters, are, as you said, constitutional. The influence of such involves a family feeling extending to a whole province, or a whole ^[p. 489] country. Then we must have authority, and hence Paul’s letter here asserts authority and uses very strong language where worldly principles are adopted, which would include independency. For evidently the Galatians were adopting thoughts of legality that were independent.

AM Are you suggesting that the principle of casting out is to be acted on if necessary in the assembly?

JT I would say so. In John’s second epistle it is said, “He that abides in the doctrine, he has both the Father and the Son”; 2 John 9; this is said to “the elect lady”, which is apropos of what we are saying. She is a sister. “He that abides in the doctrine, he has both the Father and the Son. If any one come to you, and bring not this doctrine, do not receive him into the house, and greet him not; for he who greets him partakes in his wicked works”. 2 John 9-11. So that I would say that the idea of casting out is there, casting out what is wrong, and, of course, the bond-woman represented the legal system, and her son, which was Ishmael, also represented it; both together represented it, and they were to be cast out. Sarah, therefore, is the type we have to go by, her word to Abraham is called scripture, “what says the scripture”. Galatians 4:30.

Rem Hagar was a poor thing constitutionally and only produced a persecutor. But the scripture says, “Cast it out”.

JT Quite so. So here “he that was born according to flesh persecuted him that was born according to Spirit”. Galatians 4:29. Casting out is quite in order, there is to be no toleration of such things.

AM I was not thinking only of casting out persons, of course we know something of that, alas, but of casting out principles if they take root among us.

JT Quite so. No doubt that is what Paul had in his mind, that they should refuse these principles that they had already received, more or less.

PHH Do you think “the pattern of Isaac” Galatians 4:28, directs our minds to what is heavenly, so that it ^[p. 490] is not only what is morally above, but now the pure heavenly pattern.

JT That is good. I was thinking, following the thought of Isaac in the matter, that after he is seen as offered up in type, Abraham returns to his young men and they go to Beer-Sheba, but Isaac does not come down with him, and that would bear out what you have said, that he really is the heavenly man, but I think the heavenly man in testimony here. Abraham is distinctively the heavenly man, without any qualification, but Isaac, whilst a type of Christ as heavenly, is a type of Christ more active here below in the testimony, in dealing with it, and so he is not said to come down, his father came down, and the young men came down, but it is not said that Isaac came down, and that would point to the heavenly. As the sequel proceeds, he was heavenly in this sense, in Sarah’s tent, continuing in that, Sarah’s tent representing where the testimony was at the beginning, and the thought was to preserve it and what Sarah represented, meaning that she represented the heavenly, the Jerusalem above. She died, of course, but still the truth was there, and, as come down, he and Rebecca were in that tent and the testimony was to be continued in it, and the Spirit came into that, and so we have in Isaac one who resolutely maintained the wells, what Abraham brought in. It is a question of the Spirit, Jerusalem above is maintained here in the power of the Spirit.

AJG Are you referring to Isaac’s activity in digging again the wells that Abraham had dug?

JT Yes, that is where he shines. There is not much to be said of Isaac after that. God is pleased to preserve him, but he shines in that, in that he was in Sarah’s tent and he re-established the wells that the Philistines had stopped up. That is in principle what this epistle is. The devil’s work in Galatia was to stop up the wells; that is to say, to hinder the Spirit, and Paul is opening up the truth of the Spirit.

Ques Would you say that Isaac’s great concern was digging and not striving? He continued patiently and stedfastly in regard to the Spirit.

JT Quite so, until he came to Rehoboth, which means broadways. That is to say, God gives liberty to His people, and this epistle is to establish that, to establish the liberty in which Christ sets us free.

Ques It refers to “children of promise”, then “born according to Spirit”, and then “children of the free woman”, Galatians 4:28,29; Galatians 4:31. Would the first bring in the thought of counsel and sovereignty, and the second the idea of constitution to which we have referred, while the last would bring in character?

JT Very good. Those three things would help us. I thought that the idea of the Jerusalem above having come before us, and developed somewhat, we might now proceed to the Ephesian side of our subject, but not to overlook the question of metropolitanism in the heavenly side, the good sense, nor yet to overlook the thing in its wickedness, because we are faced with it now toward the end of the dispensation. God has said much in the book of Revelation as to it, first under the head of Jezebel, and then the commercial system, and in chapter 19 we have the assembly in its wifely character, not exactly the bride, as in the first part of chapter 21, but the wifely character, the Lamb’s wife. The Lord would support the mother in that sense, in her wifely care for the Lord’s interests, and how much these interests may be guarded and maintained in a wifely way, according to what is said in Proverbs. We have already spoken of her heavenly relation, or her dignity and elevation, but then too there is the book of Proverbs, in which the wisdom of Solomon is worked out and developed in the virtuous woman, who cares for the interests of her husband, and it seems to me that that is another feature that should be kept in our minds, so that there is abundant care for the Lord’s interests in the present time. The Spirit of God is ^[p. 492] greatly supporting special meetings, such as these, in all parts of the earth where the saints are, and the question is whether these meetings may not interfere with the home feature, the home front as we may call it, and whether the Lord’s interests are guarded, for there is constant necessity for those who are elders and have the place of elders, looking after the government of the assembly. Are these interests of the Lord in the local assemblies properly fostered and cared for? I believe it is a matter that ought to concern us, whilst not leaving these happy occasions of ministry and fellowship, not leaving them in any sense, but the Lord’s interests in the local position are to be cared for, and I think that comes into the wifely side. And then as to the mind of God being opened up to us, whether enough attention is paid to matters that are puzzling the saints, because the saints should not be left puzzled; constantly things come up that are puzzling, whereas the Spirit of God is in the temple. “Do ye not know that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you”, (1 Corinthians 3:16) and the assembly grows in that, right on to the millennial day. All these matters will be adjusted in that day, so that the people on the earth will understand what is current; why not now? Why should a brother, for instance, have to write to another at a long distance to get an answer to some question that he does not understand? Why cannot he consult the temple at home? Why cannot things be worked out temple-wise in these matters?

JSE The epistle is addressed to “the saints and faithful in Christ Jesus” (Ephesians 1:1) and the general tenor of it is upward on spiritual levels. Would that word imply that they were rightly founded on the metropolitan principle; that is, there was a set line of rule for all the saints wherever they were?

JT Very good. So that the Lord says to Ephesus that she had tried those that say they were apostles, and were not, but were liars. The Lord commends Ephesus for ^[p. 493] that, showing that what we are speaking of was there; that is to say, the doctrine was guarded, love was somewhat on the wane, but anyway doctrine was guarded. The dispensation began with the guarding of the doctrine, for the converts persevered “in the teaching and fellowship of the apostles”, (Acts 2:42) and I believe that John’s ministry is to revive the idea of teaching, which runs right through the gospel of John. The Lord is Himself called Rabbi, or Teacher, at the beginning of John, and Mary Magdalene calls Him Rabboni in chapter 20, showing that she regarded Him as her Teacher. The question is now as to whether we have right teachers, and whether teaching has its proper place amongst us, so that we are not saying what we please. The Scriptures are with us, and every scripture is inspired of God, and profitable, so that we can search things out, and the temple is available to search things out together locally. If there are puzzling things, as there were in Paul’s day, the saints wrote to him about them and he answered and wrote to them too, of course, and brethren who can do anything of that kind are ready to do it now, but then the question is, whether the temple is used, or is it lying idle, so to speak. It would seem that the idea of faithfulness at Ephesus, “faithful brethren”, would mean they were guarding the doctrine committed to them.

LPM So that the truth of the temple cannot operate in a right sense unless Paul’s doctrine is fully received. Would that be right?

JT Quite so. “My doctrine”, as he puts it, had become a test; not that it would be in every sense, but it was the leading thought in his time. The doctrine that was committed to Paul, the different ministries that were committed to him, we might say, covered the whole of the doctrine of christianity. Therefore, as I was remarking, the home front is of every importance, the local positions are to be kept clarified. Brethren should know what is current, and if they do not know, ask; ask the ^[p. 494] local brethren, in the light of the temple, and ask the Lord to meet every difficulty that is arising.

SMcC How do you view the temple in Ephesians 2, in contrast to what we have in the first letter to the Corinthians?

JT First Corinthians gives the local thought, depending on the Spirit, and so Paul says, “Do ye not know that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you”? (1 Corinthians 3:16) But the other, the one we are dealing with now would allude to growth in the same thought, with a view to the millennium. The thing is going on, it “increases to a holy temple in the Lord”, (Ephesians 2:21) the Lord being prominent, which is to be noted. He will, of course, be Lord in the millennial day, and things will be regularised, so to speak. The book of Ezekiel would show what will be current in those days, there will be a temple and that on the earth; but then the heavenly is that which is specially in the mind of God. So that we have such suggestions in the New Testament as persons ruling over five or ten cities in the coming day; that would mean, I apprehend, that the assembly would be used in that sense; individuals of the assembly would be used, and no doubt the millennial kingdom will be regulated and the mind of God will be disclosed and will be available. They will not have the understanding of the assembly, because the assembly will be in heaven; she is already translated, and the all-various wisdom of God is in her, and it is available to the kingdom below, I would say, so that things are not left at all; everything is regulated, although there is evidently a weakening of the general position in the millennium, according to Numbers 29. This is indicated in the number of animals offered as sacrifices; in spite of the reduction of the bullocks as the days passed, the numbers did not go below seven, a figure which holds throughout the chapter.

AJG So that you would say that all the different questions and difficulties that arise in the assembly at ^[p. 495] the present time are intended to develop our knowledge of the temple.

JT We seek to work out things in our local positions, but I am afraid that generally the temple is not used as it should be.

Rem In the wise woman of Abel’s day, they said, “Just inquire in Abel”, 2 Samuel 20:18. Wisdom was there to deal with a very difficult situation, and everybody bowed to the woman’s judgment.

JT Quite so. She went round to the people in her wisdom, showing that the local position was looked into and the best use made of it.

Ques Does that scripture show that the matter of inquiry is dependent on the mother idea? After saying “Just inquire in Abel” she goes on to say, “thou seekest to destroy a city and a mother in Israel”, 2 Samuel 20:18,19.

JT The mother city is the thing to notice, it is not simply that the wise woman herself was to be destroyed, the city was to be destroyed. Joab was attempting to do it, to meet the situation by destroying the city, but he was amenable to what she said, and the head of the attacking man was thrown over the wall, the matter was met. Some of us were saying recently that things are at times unduly left, whereas they should be finalised. Many things could be easily finalised if the brethren locally come together in dependence on the Lord and wait on Him with the Scriptures in their hands as to any given matter.

PHH Do you think that is why the word temple is used in the opening of the first book of Samuel? There was a poor state of things, but the exercises in a motherly way of Hannah, as referring to the temple, led the way to the man of God and the prophetic ministry coming in to solve questions.

JT Very good.

PHH It is said of Samuel that he “was established a prophet of Jehovah”, (1 Samuel 3:20) and none of his words fell to the ground.

JT Very good. I believe that book is the very section of Scripture that God has used in our own times to bring out the idea of prophetic ministry and the great need for it, what we call meetings for ministry, sometimes prophetic. That idea was established in 1 Samuel, so that Saul is reminded by Samuel that the hill of God was in the hands of the Philistines, the hill of God. That was a problem, but it should be overcome. Saul did not overcome it, David alone did it, and therefore what you say is so important, because it is said that it was established that Samuel was a prophet from Dan to Beer-Sheba, and that his words did not fall to the ground. That is, what he would say would be considered and have a place in the hearts of the saints, and if some matter has to be solved, well, look well into what Samuel says, give plenty of scope to it; that is what our prophetic meetings really mean, that the truth is looked into and weighed over and talked over and not left to one or two to handle at a distance, but to handle it in the temple.

EAK Would what has been termed our mid-week city readings come within the scope of what you are saying, having in mind both the thought of the temple and what is prophetic? Would such meetings serve in the light of what you have been saying, in the elucidation of matters relating to the truth, as we are dependent on the Lord and the Spirit? What has been called attention to in relation to the hill of God, would thus strengthen what is of the assembly in a place.

JT Therefore the main meetings for the instruction in right doctrine should be mid-week, instead of the Lord’s day. I have often thought of that, and often spoken about it, and many have too, and I believe it is well to be thought of. The difficulties of the week, and what affects our spirits in our businesses and the like have to be met in mid-week, not on the Lord’s day. The Lord’s day ^[p. 497] takes care of itself, so to speak, because it is a favoured day and the Spirit of God has more liberty in it, but the week of responsibility is where the pressure is, and we are apt to be dark about things, and we need illumination. Therefore I would say that the city reading in any given city ought to be mid-week, and it should include all the saints of the city, because it is the best that God has, it is the bill of God, where what He has is the very best in the place, and there ought to be plenty of scope for what there is, what gift there may be, so that the truth may come out. That is my thought about it, and I have often spoken of it. I think it ought to be adopted, that the thought of the hill of God should be understood and acted upon, which I would say is 1 Corinthians 14:23. “If therefore the whole assembly come together in one place”, that is, for doctrine, for ministry, not for the Lord’s supper but for ministry.

PL So that the bastions, you might say, in a militant way of the assembly in the presence of evil are built up in the souls and minds of the saints as beating out the truth together?

JT Beating it out, just so. And if there is anybody capable of helping, of course, make plenty of room for him, but it is not a sectional matter, it is an all-round matter in the city, the whole city is involved in it. What would our sub-divisions mean otherwise? Of what value are they if they are not all drawn upon and called into the place, called into the matter of the mid-week meeting?

SMcC Is there anything against one of the subdivisions giving up what may be called their reading of a sub-divisional character to make room for the working out of this principle of the hill of God during the week?

JT But the city reading is the hill of God, and it ought to be so regarded in any city where what God has in the place is all together, on a certain night, when the whole city is represented. God’s best is there, as it were,

^[p. 498] in the sense of dealing with matters of difficulty, dealing with any matter, but especially with matters of difficulty.

PL So that this character of meeting suggested in 1 Corinthians 14, should be incorporated in the weekly calendar of the assembly in a city; the epistle to the Corinthians having the thought of the week in mind, the first day of the week and so on.

JT Yes, the week is in mind exactly, and the first day of the week is the favoured day, it is the day in which God raised Christ from the dead. Think of that entering into that day, the Spirit of God bringing it home to the brethren; it is a time of special favour. The mid-week is not that; we have no Lord’s supper on the mid-week days, but we have our Bibles, and we have ourselves, and we have the temple and the Spirit of God and therefore matters ought to be solved; at least there is some ground for the solution of everything on those lines.

LPM Would the school of Tyrannus afford support of that and enter into the matter at all?

JT I think it would, because in a school you would look for and expect a thorough investigation of things, a thorough way of learning. It is not optional to go to the meeting; it is imperative that I should go to that meeting and all meetings, of course, but especially the mid-week meeting, because the problems of the moment are to be settled there. The Spirit of God is there to do it.

PL In what has been before you, would you say our liberty is safeguarded in Galatians, in jealous watchful love, the Lord’s interests safeguarded, and then the truth safeguarded?

JT Well, that is what we are endeavouring to bring out, and I think the scriptures that we have before us help in the matter, and the Lord is helping us now, and one would hope that what has been said will remain with us, something of the feature of Samuel’s day that the prophet’s words did not fall to the ground. Things are not held, you know, very much. We say we have good ^[p. 499] readings and good addresses and that, but how much is carried through and put into effect to meet conditions, to meet difficulties?

PHH Have you in mind that if certain things are in the minds of the brethren, a city reading would be a good place to bring such things forward as are not fully understood?

JT I would say that fully; it is a good place, it is intended for that, because if it is the hill of God which the enemy has seized, then there is a weakness and things are not met, if the Philistines are in it the thing is not there, you know. So that we must see to it that there are no Philistines in charge, but rather those that have ability from God to deal with matters are there, that is what I would say. If the position is weak, of course, the next thing is that “we that are strong” (Romans 15:1) take the matter up. Let the strong help; we are not limited. The principle of the assembly is that if there are elders they belong to the locality, but if there are gifts, if there are any persons who have gift from God, they have liberty anywhere, and that is dealt with in 1 Corinthians 12:28, they are set “in the assembly”. Whatever there is in the sense of gift, helps and the like, they should be available everywhere, and there is no reason why the nearby meetings should not help or those who have gift in them. It is a mutual time, it is a time for mutual help, and the Lord is with us in this mutual Way.

PL Do you think the Lord’s utterance, “I must be about my Father’s business”, Luke 2:49, as having been in the temple at that time would suggest to us the devotion required to take on such strenuous features? It would suggest a temple enquiry?

JT Very good, the Lord was here on those lines to look after His Father’s business, and if there is anything that concerns the Lord anywhere, those of us who are nearby, or even at a distance, go there. So that the first point made in the passage alluded to in 1 Corinthians 12 enters into it, as it says, “Now ye are Christ’s body, and members in particular. And God has set certain in the assembly”, 1 Corinthians 12:27,28. These are gifted men, “first apostles; secondly prophets; thirdly teachers; then miraculous powers; then gifts of healings; helps; governments; kinds of tongues”, 1 Corinthians 12:28. God has set them, not in any particular locality, but in the assembly, therefore they have a right of way, so to speak, everywhere, and they are free to go anywhere to lend a hand where it is needed. I think that part ought to be kept in mind with chapter 14 as running with the Lord’s supper in chapter 11. I believe that is how the thing is going, that the way of God collectively is on those lines.

PL I suppose you would agree that the meeting for ministry would furnish one of those mid-week occasions in a given month?

JT It would, because the Spirit of God would be there, you know, and ready for help where it is needed. The mid-week is a convenient term to use as implying the influence of the week, of the ordinary days of a believer, an assembly man; they may be detrimental, for the experiences in them tend against him, and he needs more, support there in view of what is to be contended in assembly matters.

Ques Do you suggest that this should be every week, or only on occasions when there is a difficult question to settle?

JT It is every week. It is what is called a city meeting. We have already mentioned that term, city meeting, and the word must apply even if there be only one meeting in a city, because the difficulty, whatever it may be, in view of the way, the way of God, in view of the government of God, whatever may be, has to be met; and, of course, if there are none but the local people there, the Lord would help them, but there is no reason why persons nearby should not come.

FP Peter was called to Joppa. Would that ^[p. 501] help?

JT Just so.

Ques Do you regard a reading as answering to 1 Corinthians 14?

JT Yes, certainly, in the sense of authoritative teaching there, which there ought to be. If the Spirit of God is there, and gift is there, and even if gift be not there, if the Spirit of God is there, the principle of the temple is there, so that matters may be met.

SMcC This expression here is, “ye are fellow-citizens of the saints, and of the household of God”, Ephesians 2:19. Would that help us in visiting other places, availing ourselves of the liberty that we would have in relation to the “household of God”.

JT Quite so, the liberty of the house. An elder, of course, is local. His place is in the local position where he is set, they were chosen for a particular assembly, but the gifts that are mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12 are universal, they belong to the whole assembly, they are set in the assembly, not in the local assembly but in the assembly in principle, as a whole.

Ques Is there any idea of pattern in the Lord when he says, to those who would retain him in one place, “I must preach the glad tidings of the kingdom of God to the other cities also”? Luke 4:43.

JT Quite so; other cities. The Lord had in mind what was needed in those other cities.

Ques Is there any scripture that would help us as to how long an exercise should be continued before a matter is completed? Daniel had to wait 21 days before he got an answer. Sometimes we go on for a long time.

JT Some matters go on unduly long, but anyway, even if they do, they have to be met, and it is not exactly a question of waiting for an answer from God, as in the temple, but of finding out what Scripture teaches, and that is what reading meetings are intended for, to end in, that the brethren understand what they are dealing with. The Spirit of God is there to help them.

GHSP Is that why you have emphasised recently ^[p. 502] the need of the principles of the Bereans receiving the word and then searching the Scriptures daily?

JT Quite so, as we have often remarked, that when Paul came to Troas there were seven others who accompanied him, and one of these was a Berean; he was the first one mentioned, implying that if anything came up he would be ready to look into it and see whether Scripture bore on it and what had been said, and so forth. That is to say, the Berean would be a person who would look into matters, and appeal to Scripture, to see whether these things were so.

GHSP I want to ask again about these single meetings in a place. Do you think it ought to be a concern to us to invite those that can help from other places?

JT You have to watch that, of course, and not forget that you have the means in your own hands in this meeting, the temple being here. You might find a thing yourself, or the brethren locally, but anyway, be sure that you consult the local people before you go afield.

Ques Would that be normal?

JT I would think so. The idea of the local assembly is that it is furnished with what is needed to carry on by itself, at the same time recognising the universal position.