THE HEAVENLY SIDE OF THE GOSPEL
[p. 50] THE HEAVENLY SIDE OF THE GOSPEL
1 Timothy 1:11; Ephesians 6:18 - 20; Ephesians 1:13,14; Numbers 13:26,27
JT It is thought that the Lord would open up a little to us the heavenly side of the gospel, what is called in our first scripture “the glad tidings of the glory of the blessed God”. 1 Timothy 1:11. The passage in the first chapter of Ephesians speaks of the gospel of our salvation; that, as it is said, by which we are saved “having heard the word of the truth, the glad tidings of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, ye have been sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the earnest of our inheritance to the redemption of the acquired possession to the praise of his glory”. Ephesians 1:13,14. That is what is generally in mind in the gospel. The passage in Timothy, and that in Ephesians 6, take us further on to the matter of the glory; and in the latter we have “the mystery of the glad tidings”. Ephesians 6:19. Then it is thought that the passage in Numbers would help us as a type as referring to the land, what we may call the gospel of the land. It is alluded to in Hebrews 4 where it is said, that we have had the gospel presented to us “even as they also”; Hebrews 4:2. The gospel they had presented was the report of the spies. What a report they brought down to Moses from their search of the land as compared with the exit out of Egypt; that report was more in keeping with Ephesians 1.
ESB You said that there are many expressions used in regard to the gospel. Sometimes on the notice board in regard to the preaching of the gospel the expression is used, “the gospel of God”, sometimes it is “the gospel of the grace of God”, do you differentiate between the two, the one being a further thought than the other?
JT Well, the gospel of God is a general thought [p. 51] covering all references to it, especially in Romans, but Romans does not take us to the idea of the glory, or of the land, and perhaps that is where we all need help. The ordinary gospel is preached to save us while in this world, but then there is also the idea of taking us out of this world, delivering us out of it, and that means more than the ordinary term of the gospel, the gospel of our salvation, it means what is in heaven.
HGH Does the expression “sound teaching” in 1 Timothy 1:10 involve not only the gospel of salvation but the gospel of the glory?
JTT It is written to a brother engaged in the work; indeed, Paul says that he preached the gospel of the Son of God with him and Silvanus at Corinth, so that he was conversant with Paul’s doctrine, what is especially his, the gospel that is committed to him would include heavenly things. The Lord had said in relation to the subject of eternal life in John 3, “And no one has gone up into heaven, save he who came down out of heaven, the Son of man who is in heaven”. John 3:13. So that the Lord is qualified to tell us about what is in heaven, and that we are taken up through the gospel of the glory to be fitted by it for heaven.
Ques Would you look for the heavenly side to be presented in the meeting rooms in the main?
JT I was just wondering about that. I have been thinking for a considerable time of the preachings we have throughout the world on Lord’s day afternoon or evening, and more recently, the habit we have of praying for it in our houses, and I believe the heavenly side of the gospel is what is more fitting and needful in those preachings. Here and there we get a person going out into the street to preach to people as they pass, and I suppose we should then think of what is more initial and elementary, but inside the room, after our seasons together on the first day of the week, when we are engaged with heavenly things, or ought to be, the [p. 52] service of God leading us into heavenly things, and they should not be foreign to us; then the heavenly side of the gospel should be presented. If we pray for the gospel in our houses we should think of the best side of it available to the households of the brethren and their children too, of course, but also the older ones. It is a time of privilege, the heavenly side really, because it is the day on which the Father raised the Son. It is said He raised Him up by His glory. It is a remarkable expression and we should not feel strange if the gospel of the glory was the subject after our prayer meeting for the gospel preaching.
Ques What you have expressed is in my own mind very much. What would you put on the notice board?
JT Well, I think the safest thing is “the word of God”. Paul tells Timothy to preach the word; 2 Timothy 4:2. It is a phrase we get in Hebrews 4 where we have this same point touched on; that is, the gospel of the spies, what they brought down to Moses. The charge was that they hardened their hearts. The appeal in Hebrews 3:8 is, “Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness”. So in chapter 4, the writer of the Hebrews says, “For indeed we have had the glad tidings presented to us, even as they also; but the word of the report did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard”. Hebrews 4:2. The charge made was of not hearkening to the word, and we are told in Hebrews 4:12, what the word is; “For the word of God is living and operative, and sharper than any two edged sword”. After that, in order to encourage any who would be encouraged through the preaching, he presents Christ as the High Priest for us, ready to assist us against hardening our hearts, assist us into the realm of grace and maintain us in it. So that I was thinking the safest thing is to announce publicly that the word of God is to be preached, because it puts everyone under responsibility, not that I would have [p. 53] any difficulty in putting on the board that the gospel of God is to be preached.
Ques Is it that the word of God is so comprehensive that it would meet whatever state was there to be met?
JT The scripture says, “penetrating even to the division of soul and spirit, both of joints and marrow, and a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart, and there is not a creature unapparent before him; but all things are naked and laid bare to his eyes, with whom we have to do”. Hebrews 4:12,13.
Rem It says in Luke 5:1 that “the crowd pressed on him to hear the word of God”.
Ques If you were able to present the gospel of the glory, or the gospel of the land, would you expect souls to be converted under that gospel?
JT Well, we hope, and we need to, that there are more who attend our meetings, than persons who actually need conversion in the ordinary sense. Those who do come are mostly those who need the gospel of the glory and, therefore, I believe that it is the point to get them to see that there is another world.
ECM Does the gospel of the glory involve the fact that there is a Man in the glory?
JT Yes, what is presented in Deuteronomy, for instance. The passage we read from was Numbers, but there is a passage in Deuteronomy which indicates the things that are in the land, not only the persons in the glory, the persons in heaven, but heavenly things. It says in Deuteronomy 8:7 - 10 “For Jehovah thy God bringeth thee into a good land, a land of water-brooks, of springs, and of deep waters, that gush forth in the valleys and hills; a land of wheat, and barley, and vines, and fig-trees, and pomegranates; a land of olive-trees and honey; a land wherein thou shalt eat bread without scarceness, where thou shalt lack nothing; a land whose stones are iron, and out of whose [p. 54] mountains thou wilt dig copper. And thou shalt eat and be filled, and shalt bless Jehovah thy God for the good land which he hath given thee”. I was thinking of the Lord’s day, we have had the service of God in the morning, we have had before us the day on which the Father raised Him by His glory; then we have had the reading of the Scriptures in holy fellowship; and then we have had our conversation in our houses, which all ought to be profitable. Having been in all that we should be ready for something about the good land, what God in His love has not only chosen us for, but searched out for us Himself. He viewed it as if one saw it at a distance and the whole of it is for His people, and then, when you come to examine it, it is so full of riches. Why should not the saints know, why should they not hear these things, and see that it is worth while being a christian?
Rem It says of the spies in Numbers that they brought back word to them and showed them the fruit of the land.
JT They brought it down two together on a pole so that it could be well seen. What fruit it was!
JCT You would say the gospel of the glory involves the fulness of God’s thoughts for men.
JT Yes I would. “Eye has not seen, and ear not heard, and which have not come into man’s heart, which God has prepared for them that love him, but God has revealed to us by his Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God”. 1 Corinthians 2:9,10. These are the things that the saints need. So many young people are turning aside and we want the young people to have something to hold them, a gospel that is worth while receiving.
HGH Do you think it is profitable to present the gospel of salvation to young people, before the gospel of the glory is presented?
JT Yes, quite so. Young people brought up in christian households need instruction. They need all [p. 55] that will control their minds and their consciences, for their consciences have to be met, and for that we have to have redemption; but then the heart also has to be satisfied. The trees of the Lord are said to be satisfied, and I believe the cup in the Lord’s supper is for satisfaction. Our young people are not satisfied or else so many would not turn aside.
AWP So John says, “Love not the world, nor the things in the world”, 1 John 2:15. We not only have another world in view, but we know the things that belong to it.
JT Yes, just so. They are depicted in Deuteronomy. Among other things too the gospel involves extrication, a gospel which meets man in his need.
Rem In Galatians the apostle speaks of deliverance “from this present evil world”.
JT Yes, and the gospel of the glory is intended for that. Then there is the mystery of the gospel, which is something that is hardly known at all, because it refers to the assembly. That is what the saints are brought into in the way of persons. There are things, but there are persons too; society is involved in the assembly; what companionship we are brought into!
WHC Is there some point in the way Paul speaks in Romans? “Beloved of God, called saints”; Romans 1:7. Is there any particular point in that?
JT “Called saints”; that is, saints by calling. That is to bring out their dignity and leads up to the mystery of which we have been speaking. “Consider your calling, brethren”, 1 Corinthians 1:26. So we are told in Ephesians 4, to walk worthy of the calling, “using diligence to keep the unity of the Spirit in the uniting bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit, as ye have been also called in one hope of your calling”, Ephesians 4:3,4. “One hope of your calling”, and what a calling! This refers to the greatness of the things we are brought into, the destiny that is before [p. 56] us.
SH Rahab presents to us a poor sinner and how far one can progress by the report one hears. She speaks of “Jehovah your God, he is God in the heavens above, and on the earth beneath”, Joshua 2:11.
JT It is wonderful that she said that. It would indicate what a type she is, and not only a type, but the substance was there as well, and you can understand how much she fits in with the book of Joshua. She says she is on Joshua’s side. Joshua introduces us into the land.
Ques The prodigal realised that he had sinned against heaven. Is that the principle of the gospel of the glory working?
JT Quite so. That part of the chapter, I believe, is just what should be read now. What is to be brought forth is the best robe, that is, something from heaven.
FWK Does the gospel of the glory show complete deliverance from the world and moving in the light of heaven? They were “in the temple praising and blessing God”, Luke 24:53.
Ques Is there a danger of our thinking of unconverted souls and not being in the good of the things ourselves?
JT Just so. There is the everlasting gospel, but we are not engaged with that, we are engaged with the heavenly gospel, the gospel of the glory which is greater than the everlasting gospel. If we follow Paul’s ministry we shall see that he is thinking of the greatness of the assembly. He tells us of “the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but has now been made manifest to his saints”, Colossians 1:26. The thought is that the time has come when there are persons here who are interested in this great matter. I have been impressed with a remark that Mr. Stoney made. He said that if he met a man interested in the right sense he would like to follow him into heaven. The things are there to be seen. The Lord said to the thief on the cross, “Today shalt thou be with me in paradise”, Luke 23:43; that is not properly heaven. Paul saw wonderful things there, but heaven is a thought beyond paradise. It is a question of what is in heaven, as the Lord says, “And no one has gone up into heaven, save he who came down out of heaven, the Son of man who is in heaven”, John 3:13, and He says that in view of the gospel of eternal life. There must be some link with heaven, because of the Son of man being there, and He has come down here, and then we have what He told people when He was here: what unfoldings, for instance, we have in John 14, John 15, John 16 and John 17; what unfoldings for men!
JCT So the word to the exercised soul is “Come and see”. John 1:39 That is John’s word, it is a characteristic word of John’s gospel, but then what is to be seen? the Spirit being here and Christ being in heaven, and the saints being formed accordingly, what they are, what God is engaging them with.
HGH Do you think that the gospel of the glory is involved in James 5:20, when he refers to bringing back the sinner from the error of his way?
JT Just so. “Shall save a soul from death”. James 5:20. There are many like that, they turn aside and you cannot save them after they have turned aside with the thing that they were converted with, you must bring in something else.
AAG Is it the gospel of the glory that the enemy is so set against? I was thinking of 2 Corinthians 4. “But if also our gospel is veiled, it is veiled in those that are lost; in whom the god of this world has blinded the thoughts of the unbelieving, so that the radiancy of the glad tidings of the glory of the Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine forth for them”. Paul then goes on to speak of “God who spoke that out of darkness light should shine who has shone in our hearts for the shining forth of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ”. 2 Corinthians 4:6.
JT [p. 58] Therefore the devil is especially set against it, darkening souls. He is set for the darkening of man, the passage points to that, those who are lost through Satan’s blinding efforts.
FGH In regard to special occasions for the preaching of the gospel, would you think the gospel of the glory should be presented on these occasions as well?
JT I should like to know that the gospel of the glory was presented in some way or another; it is very rarely that it is presented.
FGH I was thinking perhaps on those occasions when complete strangers come in and there is more in mind the meeting of the need; would not the gospel of the glory go beyond that?
JT It would. The intent is to allure people out of the world, and to show what God has for man in the gospel, because it includes the mystery. What themes there are for preaching and for teaching so as to allure souls. I believe that Luke 15 is the opening up of it, the music and the dancing; that is another thing to appeal to young people especially, where all the springs are known to be in the assembly, in God’s house; that must be alluring. The way God, as shown in the father, came out to his elder son, to his first son, and begged him to go in. He would not go in, even though the thing was there to entice him to go in, and hence the terribleness of the judgments are spoken of in the next chapter, how the future is laid bare as the rich man is exposed in hades. The passage states, that the rich man “in hades lifting up his eyes, being in torments”. Luke 16:23 That is a striking matter as following on chapter 15, where the wonderful blessedness of the gospel, the gospel of the glory, is in mind. It says, “Bring out the best robe, and clothe him in it”. Luke 15:22. Everything was of the best and everything was for him. The father was doing everything possible for him, for his joy, and everything is of the best.
WS So the principle is represented in Saul of Tarsus [p. 59] on the way to Damascus. The Lord Himself appeared to him in glory. There is a presentation of the Lord there and the mystery is indicated in what the Lord said.
JT I would say that, the account Paul gives of what happened shows the brightness that enveloped him.
JCT The Lord’s commission to Paul links the forgiveness of sins with the inheritance among the sanctified.
JT Yes, just so.
WJD Does it depend on the saints as well as on the preacher?
JT Well that is a good point to bring up. If we have been praying in our houses for the gospel work, let us carry that into the preaching, into the room where the preaching is, and manifest it in prayerful interest while the gospel is going on. Perhaps that is what is needed, because everything is not done when we leave our houses.
WJD I was thinking of the passage in Numbers 13 where it is said, “that place was called the valley of Eshcol, because of the grapes which the children of Israel had cut down there”. I wondered whether it depended upon the saints together entering into the blessedness of the place and what was there, so that the testimony might come out of it.
JT You can see how the two men carried the bunch, the one going before and the other coming after, how they were affected by their load, which seemingly was of the very best, and it was a testimony to the land, two of them carrying it. It is a question of what we carry in our hearts in the preaching or in sitting at the preaching, because I think what has just been remarked is a crucial matter. Generally, when the brethren come to the meeting, they leave the matter after having prayed; they expect the preacher to do what is done, whereas it is their responsibility, so that in Philippians the apostle speaks of “your fellowship with the gospel from the first day until now”, Philippians 1:5. It is a question of the saints.
FWK In our chapter in Timothy, Paul seems to enter feelingly into it. He says, “according to the glad tidings of the glory of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted”. 1 Timothy 1:11.
JT I think that is the point before us now, the bringing of the brethren into this matter: it is a great matter. What there is presented to us in testimony in the gospel, what we have received, as Paul said, “which also ye received”, 1 Corinthians 15:1. Well now, if we have received it, what is it, are we in the good of it? How much jubilation is there seen in going to the gospel meeting? Is the first day of the week and all its glory entering into our feelings, as we are entering into the gospel meeting? Is what we have had already on the first day of the week carried into the gospel meeting?
HGH Do you think the lack of that of which we have been speaking would account for the apparently little results in the gospel?
JT Yes, I would think that.
CL As hearing the notices in the morning we are really committed to it.
JT Yes, I would say so. “Bring out the best robe”; Luke 15:22 is the word to us. The servants of the father in the parable show us what was required. They should go in and bring forth the best robe, seek the fatted calf, and do what was necessary in order to make it suitable for food; they would all be in it. There were apparently none outside the spirit of the thing except the elder brother, who deliberately refused the gospel; the others were all in it.
EK The Thessalonians were not only in the good of the gospel, but as the apostle says it was sounded forth from them.
JT Yes, “sounded out”. I think the setting of Luke 15 would help us on this account as to what is [p. 61] there in the way of jubilation and interest. What corresponds to the father’s own earnest desire toward the elder son should be there too. The father let it be seen that it was worth his while, and the prodigal let it be seen that it was worth his while to come in. The father said, “It was right to make merry”… Luke 15:32. That was the spirit that governed the whole position.
Ques Would the servants represent those who were in sympathy with the father?
JT I would think so. I think the spirit seen there ought to be seen in our gospel meetings and, of course, with ourselves, the whole question as to what the first day of the week means to us, what it implies. The Father had been without the Son, speaking reverently. He was without the Son for three days and three nights, as the Son lay in death — the Son of the Father. “The Father loves the Son”, John 3:35, we are told, and He was deprived of that Son for three days and three nights. He was in the heart of the earth; and what feelings were in the Father’s heart as He raised Him by His glory, not simply by His power, but by His glory: therefore, the first day of the week is a day of glory. The devil is trying to rob us of it by offering larger wages on the first day of the week for our work; the devil would do anything in his power to rob the saints of the day of glory, the first day of the week.
Rem Actually it was the wealth that was in the father’s house that made the prodigal turn round.
JT Well, that is just what it says; “abundance of bread”, Luke 15:17 But there is far more in the father’s house than he could name at that time.
ECM So in Luke 14 it says “Come, for already all things are ready”. “All things” would be involved in what you speak of as the gospel of the glory.
JT Just so. There is a special reason for the jubilation, for the feelings, for the affections that you can see, and then in chapter 15 it seems that the Spirit of God [p. 62] keeps it all for that chapter. It is a remarkable gospel chapter, and it has in view that the saints may be full of it.
JCT Would the operations of all three divine Persons be seen in that chapter?
JT Quite so, showing what was going on in heaven when the Father came out, you might say, to raise the Son by His glory.
FWK Does the gospel of the glory involve that it is for the pleasure of God? It is an inheritance for God. Deuteronomy goes on to that do you think?
JT We have the inheritance in Ephesians, “[p. 68] the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints”, Ephesians 1:18.
AB Are we too content sometimes to preach to the conscience and leave the heart out of it?
JT Luke 15 is to bring the heart into it, and it is the thought of something special with which to appeal to the heart. Of course this is a parable, but the parable involves what God is, God’s affections.
JCT Would you say a word as to the fatted calf in that setting?
JT It is one of the best things that can be suggested as to food. “And let us eat and make merry: for this my son was dead and has come to life, was lost and has been found”. Luke 15:23,24. That is, he is the object of the father’s affections, everything is made to bend in that direction, and I believe the first day of the week is to lead us to thoughtfulness as to it, because it is a question of the day of the glory of the Father, that is, the Father of glory.
TLF In that way the day itself had commenced with glory and finished with glory.
JT I think that is the way to put it. The gospel ought to be the gospel of the glory. It is meet that the poor sinner, and the poor saint too, who perhaps is hardly able to keep his head above water spiritually, should commence with glory on the first day of the week.
[p. 63] Ques Would you distinguish between the preaching of the gospel and the teaching of the gospel in that connection?
JT The preaching has a circle of affections in it. The apostle says, “that by me the preaching might be fully known”, 2 Timothy 4:17. There is something in the preaching which appeals to the heart, whereas the teaching appeals to the mind of man, being instruction.
FG Would you bring in the need for repentance into the preaching?
JT Yes, quite so; a repenting sinner makes heaven joyous. That is another thing that comes out in Luke 15; every sinner who repents causes joy in heaven.
ESB What is the difference between “joy in heaven”, Luke 15:7 and “joy before the angels of God”? Luke 15:10.
JT There is a difference. The angels are brought in there as ministers of ours, they are thoroughly with God. The angels desire to look into certain things but the things they look into belong to us, they are our property; God has made them our property.
AAG Does it suggest joy in the sphere in which the Spirit is operating?
JT It is a very great victory. The worst sinner when he repents affords joy in heaven. Some of us were speaking a little while ago as to Cornelius who built up a memorial in heaven, though he had not the Holy Spirit as yet, but it indicates what we are speaking of; how great christianity is, and how that the minutest result of it is noticed in heaven. A man gives alms, he puts his hand in his pocket and gives something to a needy person, and he builds up a memorial in heaven. It is one of the most remarkable things we can get.
WJD Does the thought in connection with the Queen of Sheba coincide with what you have in mind, the testimony which reached her, and which she heard, and then she came, and saw, and what she saw was infinitely greater than what she heard. It was so much greater that she says, “Happy are thy men! happy are these thy servants”, 1 Kings 10:8.
JT That too bears on what we were saying with regard to Luke 15. It is a very good suggestion as to it in the Old Testament, but the happiness of it is the thing to be noticed. In Luke 15 the father says — and we must remember that the father represents God, our Father — he says, “It was right to make merry and rejoice”, Luke 15:32 — God Himself was in it.
Let us think of the everyday experience of a christian, and when he comes to the first day of the week, what his experience is. How much he is concerned to keep away everything that would interfere with the glory of the day. It is not simply one of the days of the Son of man, it is one of the days affected from heaven; it is really what is in heaven reflected down here, and it needs vigilance to keep away everything that would mar the day. The first day of the week, as we see it in John 20 and Psalm 22 is like it, in the reference to the hind of the morning; the feminine thought, what the Lord Himself has on the first day, what He has in those who are of His Spirit. Mary Magdalene represented what was there. How was she brought into it? she was brought into it through teaching.
HGH Do you think that it is necessary to be sealed by the Holy Spirit, before you can enter into the blessedness of the gospel of the glory?
JT I think so. The first passage we read is that we have the Spirit; “in whom ye also have trusted, having heard the word of the truth, the glad tidings of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, ye have been sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the earnest of our inheritance to the redemption of the acquired possession to the praise of his glory”, Ephesians 1:13,14. Now this would indicate what the believer receives as believing in the gospel, as the Lord says, “repent and believe in the glad tidings”, Mark 1:15. That is what [p. 65] the Lord said in Mark; the word in there means that I look into it and accept all its terms.
ESB I suppose there would be a difference in the early preachings by the apostle Paul and his later services. Three days after meeting the Lord on the way to Damascus, we are told that “he preached Jesus that he is the Son of God”, Acts 9:20, and then in the further account we have in 2 Corinthians he had a much fuller impression there of what was involved. He had been into the land and tasted the grapes of Eschol, he could speak much more fully.
JT Just so. It is what we were saying about the first day of the week and of the interest in it, and about Luke 15. What riches are implied in that chapter. The gospel is to promote what belongs to the first day of the week: it is the day of glory: that is the idea. The hind of the morning is in the heading of Psalm 22 in which the Lord is spoken of as singing in the midst of the assembly; that is how He is affected by what is involved in Psalm 22. We have the feminine thought in Mary, even as the hind in the heading of the Psalm is feminine; that is to say, the feminine result of the gospel is involved; what the Lord has, the joy that was set before Him; and I am sure that must enter into the gospel to some extent on the first day of the week; the joy which He has in the measure in which He has the assembly, because that is where His joy lies.
FWK Do you think we need to give ourselves more to this with greater definiteness in view of the Lord’s day. In John 20 the disciples were together the doors being shut.
JT It was up to them to shut the door; it is a credit to them surely as if they would be secluded, as if they would be in repose for the moment, so that the Lord could come in. Mary came in first, she came in and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord and that He had spoken these things to her. It was a glory scene. The [p. 66] Lord had already said that He was ascending. There was jubilation in the triumph that He was ascending. He said, “go to my brethren and say to them, I ascend to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God”. John 20:17. He comes in in that state of things. It is a question of what it is that enriches the moment, and I believe John 20 is to bring out the richness of the Lord coming into the assembly.
SH If we understood the marital relation to Christ more, the saints would be able to say, “This is my beloved, yea, this is my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem”, Song of Songs 5:16. Do you think that bears on what you were saying?
JT Yes, indeed. It is the day of His espousals, the day of the gladness of His heart.
ECM Would the spirit of this be seen in Paul and Silas in the jail at Philippi “in praying, were praising God with singing, and the prisoners listened to them”, Acts 16:25. The conversion of the jailor who “rejoiced with all his house”, Acts 16:34 resulted.
JT I believe the singing had part in that, it was brought into the jail. It is a question of what is brought into the meeting where the gospel is proceeding. What was brought in here? Well, it was joy, the joy of Paul and Silas; they were praising in the jail.
ECM A great point being that the prisoners heard them!
JT Just so. That is what enters in the first day of the week, and the prayers for the gospel in the house, and then what is brought in in the preaching, the place of the preaching; what is there as the preaching is proceeding, because it is not simply what the preacher has to say; he generally has something he would like to speak of. I find, if I go quietly to think of what I would say, if the brethren are praying, I am conscious of it, I always get on better with the Lord, but is that carried forward? When we go out into the street, and go into the meeting [p. 67] room, is that carried forward into the preaching, supporting the preacher? It is a jubilant state of things and there is joy in heaven, and the idea is that that should be expressed in the saints in the preaching.
Ques Is it a matter of what is in the hearts of the saints in coming together on that occasion?
JT Yes, and what is in their faces. What do their faces bespeak, are they joyous or downcast, are some of them trying to look at the clock to see how long this preaching is going to last. All these things are very practical because we are in the time of heaven’s interests; heaven is going on with these things. Since the Spirit of God came down here after Christ went up, after He was raised up into glory, until now, heaven is joyous, and the Spirit of God is here so that the joy should be reflected in the brethren. That is the idea of the gospel of the glory as involving the assembly; it includes the mystery, and the mystery is what is mysterious. Not everybody could indicate what is meant by it, the saints are mysterious in joy, because it is a question of what belongs to the first day of the week manifested in the assembly.
Ques Do you think we have often omitted the great thought of the Holy Spirit being available to souls?
JT Look at what that means “and ye will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit”, Acts 2:38. That is more than repentance. They have received forgiveness of sins, “and ye will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit”. Acts 2:38. So in Acts 13 there was great joy, and even in Philip’s preaching in Samaria there was great joy in that city.
Ques How would you bring in the thought of “flowing with milk and honey”?
JT It is typical of the richness of what God would bring us into by the gospel. Psalm 16:11 says, “thy countenance is fulness of joy; at thy right hand are pleasures for evermore”. And then Ephesians 1:18 speaks of “the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints”. That is another thing to get into the mind of the saints. The mystery means that the gospel is implied. Paul’s gospel is implied in the assembly; it is called the mystery of the gospel. How many of us understand that? Where do you bring in the mystery? You seek to make it as plain as you can and rightly, but do not forget it is something mysterious, and that it is the assembly.
ECM That is peculiar to Paul. Would you distinguish between the gospel that the twelve preached and that preached by Paul?
JT They did not preach the mystery at all.
JCT Paul says, “the mystery of the glad tidings, for which I am an ambassador”, Ephesians 6:19,20. He was a representative of his country.
Ques Referring to the mystery, is your thought that the evangelist would have the truth of the assembly in his mind in presenting the gospel?
JT He should; the mystery of the gospel. How many preachings have you heard that disclose to you the mystery of the gospel? I hardly ever hear one. Do you feel encouraged on that line?
Rem I do very much.
WJD Would you say a practical word as to what we should understand by that.
JT You must bring the saints in for that. Jehovah took Moses up to Mount Pisgah to see the land, referring to the place where the saints are to be. It is a question of the saints, it is heaven with the saints in it; that is what is in the mind of God, heaven with the saints in it, and, therefore, we are to be there. The Lord says expressly, “I go to prepare you a place”, John 14:2. There should be a suitable place for them; “and if I go and shall prepare you a place, I am coming again, and shall receive you to myself; that where I am, ye also may be”. John 14:3.
Ques Are you confining this thought to the first [p. 69] day of the week, or is it, that in the joy of the first day of the week you would be able throughout the week to present the gospel of the glory?
JT I would aim at that, especially when you think of what is called the city reading, or a meeting where the saints come together on a special day of the week, the whole assembly come together in one place for prophetic ministry. The prophetic ministry proceeds, and a man comes in, “he is convicted of all, he is judged of all; the secrets of his heart are manifested; and thus, falling upon his face, he will do homage to God, reporting that God is indeed amongst you”, 1 Corinthians 14:24,25. I would like to see the thought of the first day of the week carried through with the meetings, the prayer meeting, of course, but especially the meeting in which the prophetic ministry is proceeding; there is the power of conviction through the word of God.
Ques You mentioned the city reading, had you that in mind, or just the prophetic meeting?
JT What God has in a city: it is what God has in the place; “with all that in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ”, 1 Corinthians 1:2. What God has in every place where assemblies are, that is His best, as it were, in testimony; what you might call the ark of God. The ark was in the hands of the Philistines. It should not have been and David took it out. It was then available to God.
Rem So you would look for greater power if all the saints in a place are together — the whole assembly.
JT I would. I have proved it many times, on the first day of the week and other days of the week. I have proved it often, and I believe it is in such a meeting that God would say that He had His best there, and it is for the brethren to keep that in mind, and to see that they are there, and when they are in the room they have the matter in mind, the mystery means that God is operating in us, that we are part of His system, and the [p. 70] mystery enters into that, and so each has to be there in the light of the system and having his part in it.
FWK Is the system seen on the day of Pentecost? Peter stood up in the midst of the eleven, and there was power there.
JT That is just the point.