THE CONTINUITY OF THE MINISTRY
THE CONTINUITY OF THE MINISTRY
JT We have to regard Elijah here as more than a prophet; he is a type of Christ, in His ascension and in His inauguration of the dispensation in which we are, and the ministry particularly. The Spirit coming down from the Lord in heaven began the ministry. Matthew contemplates Peter as the first of the apostles, so he may be taken to represent the ministry until the advent of Paul’s ministry. The thought is that we should apply ourselves now to the idea of the ministry, and to the continuity of it as it began, for the Lord intends that it should carry to the end the features with which it began. It is clear that Peter led at the beginning, although recognising the others: that is, the eleven; he stood up with the eleven, as we have often noticed; so that the ministry is first to be carried on in unity, according to lead, however, but inclusive of all those to whom the Lord has given ability in it. The Lord has given ability to many and I thought we might see how the ministry is to be continued; that we all think the same thing and say the same thing.
Those who are ministered to will have an understanding and a judgment as to those who are qualified of the Lord, as in Acts 2 the converts spoke to Peter and the eleven; they were all in their minds; it was not to be a one-man affair. It is a one-man affair in the sense that Christ is Head and all flows out from Him, but the thought is, that there are to be many ministers, gifts. The Lord gave gifts unto men, but the idea is that all should work together and all tend to the same end; namely, the building up of the assembly “until we all arrive”, as it is said, “at the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, at the full-grown man, at [p. 36] the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ”, Ephesians 4:13. So that the assembly as an organism practically works out its own edifying; all the gifts become absorbed in the assembly, for they are accredited to it. It becomes thus a self-edifying organism, edifying itself in love, as it says.
GP Would unity be seen in what Paul says? “the Son of God, Jesus Christ, he who has been preached by us among you (by me and Silvanus and Timotheus)”, 2 Corinthians 1:19. They were preaching the same matter.
JT Yes: preaching the Son of God. The first epistle helps negatively there. Because of the disunity to be met, it is said, “Now I exhort you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all say the same thing, and that there be not among you divisions; but that ye be perfectly united in the same mind and in the same opinion”, 1 Corinthians 1:10. This, of course, applying to all the saints at Corinth. “For it hath been shewn to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of the house of Chloe, that there are strifes among you”, 1 Corinthians 1:11. There we see that the whole assembly was affected by the division. Not that the gifts were themselves specially in mind in what was said, but the saints as a whole were affected; that is, partisanship marked them, which is also seen in chapter 11.
Ques Is there any special significance in the fact that the Spirit of God is so emphasised in 1 Corinthians 2 as counteracting the divided state there?
JT I thought that; the preaching there is in that very setting, leading on to chapter 3 in which the temple of God is emphasised, and, of course, fits into what we are saying. Paul says, “Do ye not know that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you”? 1 Corinthians 3:16 That fact enters into a meeting of this kind — the temple.
Rem I wondered whether you had in mind that it connected with the passage in Kings where much is made of Elijah’s spirit as resting upon [p. 37] Elisha.
JT That is what is principally in mind, that Elisha was so much with Elijah. It is said, after Elijah had granted his request that he should have a double portion of his spirit, that even the sons of the prophets recognised that the spirit of Elijah rested on Elisha.
WC The three levitical families were serving the one tabernacle. It speaks of Eleazar the son of Aaron having the oversight of the whole tabernacle. Does that fit in with the idea of unity in the whole service?
JT I think so. Eleazar being specially in mind in Numbers, clearly having the ministry in view in the type. So, as we were saying, the sons of the prophets recognised that the spirit of Elijah rested upon Elisha; that was plain enough; it is prophetic of what belongs to the ministry. The sons of the prophets may have a clear outlook as to who is leading, yet they may be, and were, themselves unformed by the ministry; and that is a matter, I think, that should be attended to, extending down to the children; they come up against Elisha. Opposition arises in that way. The sons of the prophets made a point of those fifty strong men; they were infidel in saying that fifty strong men should be sent out to find Elijah, as if he had not gone up, and the children partake of the spirit of opposition. Children are apt to take on what they hear others say, and therefore the need of watchfulness as to partisanship, and having preferences in the ministry. The continuity of the ministry is to be in the spirit of Elijah, that is the spirit that is to govern the ministry. I suppose Eleazar being set over the Levites would be a suggestion of the Spirit of Christ governing the levitical services. It is the Spirit of Christ such as we get in Philippians; the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, which would save us from any partisan proclivity, and would maintain unity; unity in the ministry, and, flowing out from that, unity among the brethren generally.
EG These fifty valiant men would deny ascension, I take [p. 38] it?
JT That is the point; they become infidel. It does not appear that they mean to say anything sinister in what is alleged, but they imply, that after all, the thing said about Elijah may not be wholly true. We need to be accurate in what we report. The reports in 1 Corinthians 1, made by the house of Chloe and others, of what was “reported commonly”, were accepted by the apostle as reliable. We hear of many things being alleged and marvel how they came to be said; there is no evidence that anyone really said them, yet they are alleged. All that is important, so that in the continuity of the ministry there should be unity.
GM Would the continuity of the ministry be seen in the fact that Elijah is said to have gone with Elisha, as though he were in his hands already, and would the Lord’s words as to the Spirit, “he shall receive of mine, and shall announce it to you”, John 16:14 bear on this?
JT Quite so. There is movement with Elisha, which is right and what is to be expected; “Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal”. 2 Kings 2:1 The movement seems to be with Elisha; Elijah takes it on; the type meaning that the movement should be taken on, the Lord guiding everything. Another thing that comes out is that Elijah says, “Abide here, I pray thee; for Jehovah has sent me to Bethel”. 2 Kings 2:2. And then again it is said, “So they went down to Bethel. And the sons of the prophets that were at Bethel came forth to Elisha, and said to him, Dost thou know that Jehovah will take away thy master from over thy head today? And he said, I also know it: be silent”. 2 Kings 2:2 - 5. Then, in verse 4, he calls him by name for the first time. He said, “Elisha, abide here, I pray thee; for Jehovah has sent me to Jericho”. 2 Kings 2:4. Elijah calls him by name for the first time, therefore I think the ministers are distinguished, knowing each other by name. In Paul’s visit to Jerusalem from Antioch to meet the judaising element in Jerusalem, much is made of names, of the apostle and others. It is important that the [p. 39] leading brethren should be known in that sense and distinguished and honoured. Some of them are said to be pillars; others are alluded to as if they wished to be somewhat, but anyway they are recognised and we are to know them too.
Ques Would you say a word as to Elijah casting his mantle over Elisha in the first book, and the development of matters here? The passage in 1 Kings 19:19 reads “And he departed thence, and found Elisha the son of Shaphat, who was ploughing with twelve yokes before him, and he with the twelfth; and Elijah went over to him, and cast his mantle on him”.
JT It was a question of influence, which is an idea that has a great place in creation and in christianity, too. I believe it refers to the influence of Christ in Elijah casting his mantle upon him. Where we are subject, the influence of Christ is overwhelming and overpowering. Elijah said to him, “Go back again: for what have I done to thee? And he returned back from him, and took the yoke of oxen, and killed them, and boiled their flesh with the implements of the oxen, and gave to the people, and they ate”; 1 Kings 19:20,21, then the Spirit of God says, “he arose, and went after Elijah, and ministered to him” 1 Kings 19:21. He seemed to have some need of adjustment, but he began at once; what marked him, as indeed is recorded later, is pouring water on the hands of Elijah; he would support that ministry. He did not wish Elijah to be removed, although he was indeed to be made the prophet instead of him later, but he had no thought of his being removed so as to make room for him: he sought rather to aid him in what he was ministering. I made an allusion to the elder brethren, the elder ministers, as compared with the younger. There should be no thought of displacement in any on account of his age; not that I am speaking of myself, but of all who might be in that position. They are to be valued according to their ministry, according to what they are able to [p. 40] do, and the younger men would do well to support them in every way. Their places will be recognised, and the way that Elisha regarded his master, as he calls him, and then, his father, is very beautiful and very instructive in the divine economy.
HH Is that why it says here, “As Jehovah liveth, and as thy soul liveth”? 2 Kings 2:2.
JT Very good, “I will not leave thee”. He valued him; he valued his master.
AMP The words “from Gilgal” would be significant at the beginning of this chapter. Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.
JT It would be a starting point, not so much the geographical position as the moral position; what is implied morally. It marked Israel as going into Canaan, and if we are to go into heaven it should mark us, and I suppose both Elijah and Elisha would have that in mind, that the ministry should be in accord with heaven; it is what comes out of heaven.
HJA As to continuity, are you thinking of the quality of the ministry? I was thinking of the words “The Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit”; 2 Timothy 4:22: not only His grace but the Person with one’s spirit. Does that fit in with your thought?
JT It does indeed. “The spirits of the prophets are subject to prophets”. 1 Corinthians 14:32. Our minds are to have scope in prophecy. We do not need to take part unless we can gauge the situation and know that it is ripe for any one of us to do so. We can regulate the whole position in that sense. That enters into the order that belongs to the ministry. The prophets speak by two or three, but separately. We are not to be guided by impulse, but by our minds as to what is suitable. This matter of Elisha being recognised by Elijah is very interesting, and especially as bearing on the relations of the brethren with one another. Then Elisha cleaving to Elijah in spite of the latter’s challenge: Elijah testing [p. 41] him on every occasion, and urging him to stay where he was, because he himself must go where the Lord was sending him. No doubt in the antitype that would mean that the Lord is pleased with us as we adhere to Him, cleave to Him, cleave to the Lord with purpose of heart.
The sons of the prophets are not influencing Elisha yet, although, as is usual in such cases, they know everything; that is, they hear things, they communicate one to another, and so forth. But we soon come into contact with the fifty strong men. We have to watch them, for we have to keep clear of all that influence when we are dealing with such precious instructions as we have here, involving the impartation of the Spirit of Christ to the ministers. So Elijah said, in 2 Kings 2:4, “Elisha, abide here, I pray thee; for the Lord has sent me to Jericho”, which would mean that the new minister, so to speak, that is Elisha, would, as he traversed all these places later by himself, then have the advantage of seeing how Elijah had served there, so that he would be guided by the way things were done by Elijah. A very important matter as to the way things are done and how you minister according to what may be needed.
Then the sons of the prophets, as we were remarking, know what is going to happen, but Elisha knew too. The brother who is really used of God will know better than any; he says, “I also know it, be silent”! 2 Kings 2:5. It is not for you to talk just now. This is a most precious matter: this is the time of the impartation of the Spirit from Christ to His servants, but it should not be made a matter of table talk and the like, but regarded holily and reverentially. It is typically the greatest matter as governing the dispensation; what Christ is in it, and what the ministers are carrying on in it under Him: so he says, “I also know it, be silent”. 2 Kings 2:5. Then the matter becomes more and more holy as events proceed. 2 Kings 2:6 says, “Jehovah has sent me to Jordan”. Now here [p. 42] are the fifty strong men. We hear of them at this time for it is a question of death. Can they face death? for that is what is required; it is a question of what we can do in the swelling of Jordan, not simply on the platform, so to speak. So the fifty strong men come into evidence, they “stood opposite afar off, and they two (Elijah and Elisha) stood by the Jordan. And Elijah took his mantle, and wrapped it together, and smote the waters, and they were divided hither and thither, and they two went over on dry ground”. 2 Kings 2:7,8 The fifty strong men are not there, although they know what is happening.
Then 2 Kings 2:9 - 12 reads: “And it came to pass, when they had gone over, that Elijah said to Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I am taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me. And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so to thee; but if not, it shall not be so. And it came to pass, as they went on, and talked, that, behold, a chariot of fire, and horses of fire; and they parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into the heavens. And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father! the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof! And he saw him no more. Then he took hold of his own garments, and rent them in two pieces”.
There is a significance in these words of Elisha’s which is to enter into the ministry and those who are in the ministry are intended to understand and to use them; “the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof”. 2 Kings 2:12. What I am saying may be considered a little extreme, but I believe that is how the thing stands, that the ministry is to be continued as from a divine source, and it is to retain its character. There may be peculiarities in the ministers, but the general position is clear and the recognition of the source of the ministry, the One in [p. 43] whom it began; Christ Himself, typified here in Elijah. There is to be a general recognition of that, and it is to go through, and I believe that is the point for us at the present time.
The Lord is helping us greatly, I would say, but unity is what is so needed, and the continuance of the ministry as from the source. The thought of the father is not to be omitted; the Lord spoke of the disciples as children, and it is very precious to have the sense that He takes a place as Father, one who has authority, to whom we look, and so the ministry goes forward. We see it later in the days of king Joash, at the time of Elisha’s illness, when he was sick; 2 Kings 13. There was a weak situation, but still the truth was there, and the way to do things was known there, and Elisha is able to say with authority what is to be done. Presently Elisha dies and was buried, and as a man who had died later was cast into the sepulchre of Elisha, and touched the bones of Elisha, “he revived and stood upon his feet”. 2 Kings 13:21 That shows how the ministry goes through in power.
EG Elijah was on the mount of transfiguration with Moses; these two men speaking with Jesus.
JT I should not like to enter now on what may be said of Elijah, for he has a unique place and really a mysterious place, which I believe the Lord would help us to bring out some time. He has a mysterious place, because John the baptist is likened to him; in fact as the Lord intimated as to John, This is Elias, if they received it; Elijah would be there. Then again in the coming day we learn in Malachi 4, that Elijah appears in a ministry for children and for fathers. I should not like to enter on that very much just now, there is hardly time for it, but there is a great deal in it; and what there is in mystery in the ministry itself; the ministry is characterised by mystery.
Rem Paul said that they were to be accounted as ministers of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God, 1 Corinthians [p. 44] 4.
JT That is what I was thinking.
Ques Would the language, “My father, my father”, be in keeping with the spiritual character of the ministry? The apostle says, “communicating spiritual things by spiritual means” 1 Corinthians 2:13 in contrast to the fleshy mind.
JT Paul himself asserts the importance of fatherhood. He says to the Corinthians, “For if ye should have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet not many fathers”. 1 Corinthians 4:15. I believe that would enter into what you say, the idea of parenthood coming out in the ministers. John also speaks to the saints as a father. So there is this as over against Rome and all its claims. We have the ministry of the Spirit, the real thing, the idea of fathers, and children too, and young men, all in their different qualities amongst us, so that we have a real economy set up; not only a divine Person coming into the economy, but persons who are taken on in ministry, to lead in it, the importance they have, and the importance as to them, that they should maintain the thing as at the beginning. Hence the fathers should know Him that is from the beginning; they would not tolerate novelties to support any ministry, we must be all tested by that which is from the beginning, the ministry.
Ques Is there a counterpart in Philippians? The apostle’s reference to his own departure in chapter 1 and then, in chapter 2, the way he refers to Timothy, saying, “ye know the proof of him, that, as a child a father, he has served with me”. Philippians 2:22.
JT Very good; I think an allusion to Elijah and Elisha must be there. Paul understood the truth set out in them we do not doubt. There would be commendation of Timothy specially, because of his trustworthiness, and reliability. Paul sent him to Corinth that they might know his ways; that is, Paul’s ways as they were in Christ. Timothy would teach the Corinthians about Paul’s ways.
WC Would you say a little more about mystery entering into [p. 45] the ministry?
JT I think we can see that it is so. “The mystery of piety is great. God has been manifested in flesh, has been justified in the Spirit, has appeared to angels, has been preached among the Gentiles, has been believed on in the world, has been received up in glory”; 1 Timothy 3:16. I am sure that would be outstanding in the hearts of the ministers. It is a question of mystery in the Persons of the Deity being unfolded in the ministry.
Rem It is surprising in how many connections it stands in Paul’s ministry. He speaks of the mystery of the gospel, among other things, as though everything that is spiritual has some degree of mystery.
JT So that those governed by the truth have that character about them. What they are saying cannot be understood by the natural mind. We hold things in mystery. They must not be cast before swine. The Spirit, of course, enables us to understand mysteries, but they are there in the ministry.
WG Would you enlarge a little on the double portion of Elijah’s spirit in its bearing on us at the present moment?
JT I think it is the firstborn’s portion as characterising this dispensation, and no other dispensation. It is the fulness of the Spirit, I think. We are told in the end of John 3 that God gives not His Spirit by measure. The Spirit is given in toto, so to speak, to the assembly; it comes in through Christ, but the fulness of the Spirit is in the assembly. So the assembly is said to be “the Christ”. A marvellous thing! — “so also is the Christ”. 1 Corinthians 12:12. The assembly is that here, as meeting evil of all kinds; the power is there in the assembly, as it is understood, to meet all, and I believe what you have suggested as to the double portion would be that it is the firstborn’s portion. Christ is the Firstborn, and we come in for the result of that. There is no other dispensation like this; there is no other that has lasted so long; you marvel at it! What is the Lord doing at this time? He is not ruling [p. 46] Israel, or the nations, or the universe; He is just looking after the assembly and all that enters into it, namely the gospel.
AM Is there a counterpart of that power in the assembly today, as well as the ministry? The effects of the Spirit seen manifestly in acts of power, as well as the ministry itself?
JT I think that raises quite an important side of our subject. How is the assembly regarded when the matter of the collection comes up, for instance, when the matter of general meetings comes up, where the assembly should perform a leading part. The ministry is linked up with the temple of God, and so the collections for the saints are linked up with the assembly, and many other such thoughts, but it is a question whether the assembly is fully owned, and whether the whole thing is not weakened sometimes by the way things are viewed, and the low level of administration. Ordinary matters, such as payment for the tea at Saturday afternoon meetings, when you have children and perhaps outside christians sitting down together, charged to the assembly. That is a misuse of the assembly. It is a great dignified company and is to be so regarded in all the usages that are made of it.
AJR The spirit of this marks the present age, in the attempt to bring things down to a low level, whereas they should be placed on a high level.
JT That is what I think, exactly. So we would think twice before we apply administration in the assembly to ordinary matters. The Levites, of course, and the poor are to be thought of, which Paul said he was always forward to do; but outside of that there is a great danger, I think, of misusing the assembly.
Ques I should like a little more help as to your allusion to the Saturday afternoon meetings. Your thought is that the expenses incurred are not an assembly [p. 47] matter?
JT No, I should think not; they should be made a separate thing, for it is a question of a meal, not of fellowship; every person is not in fellowship there.
Rem It has not been our practice to so regard it. I suppose as to this hall hired specially today, the meetings around will happily send help to pay for the expenses.
JT I should think that is right.
Ques You make a difference between the expenses of a hall like this, and expenses of catering?
JT I would make a difference. It is a question of public ministry, as compared with what is personal need. I should not link up the brethren, many of them children, with eating and drinking, as if that were fellowship.
Rem I think it has been generally regarded as showing what may be called assembly hospitality.
JT I do not think there is any such thing; the assembly does not entertain.
Rem Some indication to persons who may be interested of the fatness of God’s house. And we have too, I think, so far regarded it pretty much generally, that expenses of that kind could be met assemblywise; but we are very glad to hear what you are saying.
JT I think what I am saying is right, that the assembly does not entertain in that sense at all.
AMP When you come to the thought of calling an assembly meeting, as we speak, that would need to be fully justified by Scripture. You were speaking of using what belongs to the assembly in a way that is not in keeping with it. When an assembly meeting is called, for purposes of discipline and the like, it would need to be fully in accordance with the holy character of the assembly. The apostle speaks of being “gathered together and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ” 1 Corinthians 5:4. One feels the need of making room for the wholly spiritual character of what belongs to the assembly. There may be a [p. 48] misuse.
JT Paul speaks of his spirit with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ — a wholly spiritual matter.
Our chapter, 2 Kings 2:19 - 22, speaks of the men of the city. “And the men of the city said to Elisha, Behold now, the situation of the city is good, as my lord sees; but the water is bad, and the land is barren. And he said, Bring me a new cruse, and put salt in it. And they brought it to him. And he went forth to the source of the waters, and cast the salt in there, and said, Thus saith Jehovah, I have healed these waters: there shall not be from thence any more death or barrenness. And the waters were healed to this day, according to the saying of Elisha, which he spoke”. I think we have a principle there of a wholly new setting; that is, another ministry, but in entire accord with the original, with that which was from the beginning. There is variety in it and a new thought too, which we should expect in ministry; that is, fresh thoughts, but always in accord with that which is from the beginning. So the new cruse is mentioned and salt in it. It is well to be reminded of newness in the things of God, lest we become stale; meetings like this may become stale, we need newness and freshness and a preservative element always, namely, salt. “Have salt in yourselves”. Mark 9:50. If we do not have salt we shall drift into personal preferences and disunion, as we see at Corinth. But now there is a new principle brought in, a cruse and salt in it; the idea of a vessel containing what is preservative.
They brought the cruse to Elisha, and he went forth to the source of the waters they were using then, and “cast the salt in there, and said, Thus saith Jehovah, I have healed these waters; there shall not be from thence any more death or barrenness. And the waters were healed to this day, according to the saying of Elisha”. 2 Kings 2:21,22. I only refer to it as a principle that can be applied at any time where there is, perhaps, a drift downward, as is often the case. The preservative element should be there, as it is said, “Have salt in yourselves, and be at peace with one another”. Mark 9:50.
AM Is the salt also to be applied to the hearer as well as the minister? I was thinking of the end of Luke 14:35, where the Lord refers to salt and then says, “He that hath ears to hear, let him hear”.
JT It would be as important for them as for the ministers, for we are to hear aright.
EG It is introduced in Colossians 4:6: “Let your word be alway with grace, seasoned with salt”.
JT Yes, seasoned: rightly mixed.
EG The Lord told His disciples that a “scribe discipled to the kingdom of the heavens is like a man that is a householder who brings out of his treasure things new and old”, Matthew 13:52.
JT Quite so; he brings things out of his treasure. That can be applied to any minister at any time. What does he bring out of his treasure? That would not be his bookcase, of course, but what he has in his soul.
Ques Did Saul begin with what is new when he immediately preached Jesus as Son of God?
JT Just so.