JERUSALEM ABOVE, WHICH IS OUR MOTHER
[p. 121] JERUSALEM ABOVE, WHICH IS OUR MOTHER
Galatians 4: 19 - 31; Galatians 6: 15 - 18
JT It seems very suggestive that the expression, “travail in birth”, is introduced here.
EM Is it a stronger word than “agony” in Colossians?
JT It is a different idea in Colossians 2:1. Here it is a maternal thought; in Colossians it is combat.
JM Why does he say travail again?
JT Because the ideal of the mother was not brought forth. Paul represents the mother. Very often in a family the severest travail occurs after the child is born.
EJMcB You mean in order that the child may come up to the mother’s ideal?
JT Yes; because the mother has an ideal, and if it falls short of that ideal there must be a renewal of travail, although, of course, of another kind. Christ is the ideal. There would have been no need to travail had sin not come in; travailing came in consequent upon sin.
L Had Christ been formed in the Galatians till then?
JT Apparently not; they had made a good start, however. The apostle does not say, ‘until Christ be formed again’, but “I travail in birth again”. Galatians 4:19.
EJMcB Your idea is that Christ was before the apostle, and not seeing Christ in the Galatians he had this fresh exercise.
JT Yes. The subject of travail is a most interesting one; it begins in Genesis 3, and it is found right through. It is connected with the maternal side.
EJMcB Then do you connect with the maternal side the thought of character and [p. 122] formation?
JT Yes; the mother has an ideal. It is a poor thing to bring a child into the world without having an ideal for it. Paul had no such thought; he called the Galatians his children. What God has before Him in His Son. After the fall God spoke of a seed that should bruise the serpent’s head. Cain is born, and Eve immediately says, “I have gotten a man from the Lord” Genesis 4:1; that is, she had an ideal in her mind, but Cain was not the true seed.
JPW Does this exercise come in regard to one’s self or to others?
JT In principle all believers must come to it. It may be in a labourer in regard to others, as in Paul, but one may also be exercised in this way as to oneself. There is no bringing forth of Christ in character without exercise.
EM What is the difference of the thought between travail here and in John 16:21?
JT It is the same idea. You see, the disciples had seized the thought of the Man. They would have sorrow, but He would see them again, and their hearts should rejoice. Christ was to be brought forth in themselves, as it were; He comes in again through their exercises.
Ques Was that seen at Pentecost?
JT That is where the Man was brought forth. See what the testimony was; the character of Christ was brought forth; the disciples had gone through the labour and the sorrow.
WHM And that leads to enlargement. I was thinking of Isaiah 54.
JT Yes. Zion brings forth children, and these would take the place of the “fathers”, as in Psalm 45:16, “Instead of thy fathers shall be thy children, whom thou mayest make princes in all the earth”. What was brought forth was really greater than the fathers. So the thought of God is to bring in His ideal, and now the labour and sorrow is to bring [p. 123] it forth.
EJMcB Your thought of the apostle here is that he would not rest with anything short of the ideal?
JT Yes. I have no doubt that if the apostle had looked forward and seen the outcome of Christianity, he would say, it was a monstrosity. Eve said when Cain was born, “I have gotten a man from the Lord” Genesis 4:1; but he was a man after the flesh; that which is first is always natural. So that although she gave Cain a nice name, he did not come up to the ideal. Then she got Abel, and his name indicates that Eve had not found in Cain what she expected. I have ventured to say so much about this because it is really the crucial point on the subjective line. We hesitate to accept the labour. You may have the right ideal and not bring it forth, because there is not strength for it: “the children are come to the birth, and there is not strength to bring forth”, Isaiah 37:3. Believers generally appreciate Christ, but then the question is, whether there is strength to bring Him forth.
EJMcB Yes; whether they will accept the necessary amount of suffering involved in bringing forth that ideal.
JT If the light is brought into your soul it ought to produce travail, The earth is a figure of it. Before sin came in there was no thought of ploughing or digging the earth. It was after sin came in that the penalty was laid upon Adam that the earth was to bring forth in that way. Compare Genesis 2:9 and Genesis 3:17 - 19. Now, the earth is used as a figure of man’s heart; it is the fourth kind of soil, “an honest and good heart”, Luke 8:15.
EJMcB Your thought is that normally the earth was to bring forth grass, and herb, and fruit trees after their kind, without toil or labour; but after the fall that was changed, and it was in travail it should bring forth.
JT [p. 124] Yes; and the toil is to go on in regard to the earth until the man of rest appears; that is to say, until the end of Genesis 5, “Lamech ... begat a son; and he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the Lord hath cursed”, Genesis 5:29, 30. That is to say, until Christ is brought forth as the one in whom God rests, toil has to go on; that is, of course we know, while we are down here.
L In John 5:17, you get the thought of the Father toiling, and the Son toiling. Would you say travailing gives the thought of the Spirit’s toil?
JT It is the mother’s side. When you get the ideal, there is incessant exercise until it is brought forth.
EJMcB The beauty of the word is this; that when the ideal is brought forth, the travail ceases. It is not everlasting toil in that way; but when the ideal is brought forth the travail ceases.
JT Yes; as was remarked about Jabez in 1 Chronicles 4:9. Every true Christian is born in sorrow; the difficulty is where labour or exercise is lacking; but when the desire is there God gives the strength for it to be brought forth. “It is God who works in you both the willing and the working according to his good pleasure”; Philippians 2:13. Literally, it is the working of God, but it comes out in the way of travail and exercise in the believer.
EM Is there any progress or enlargement in the thought of Christ formed in you? The apostle says, “My children, of whom I again travail in birth until Christ shall have been formed in you”, Galatians 4:19.
JT I think there is, because Isaac is the ideal. You see Abraham got the ideal; he said, “Lord God, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless ... one born in my house is mine heir”, Genesis 15:2,3. But God says, “This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir”, Genesis 15:4. Well, now, that was an ideal; but Abram overlooked the mother; and Sarah herself did not have the light, and hence she introduced Hagar as a makeshift. But in Genesis 17: 5, God says to Abram, “Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham”; this means father of a multitude; and Sarai’s name is to be changed; she is to be called Sarah, that is, “My princess”. Through her Isaac is promised. Now Abraham has the light. Isaac is to be the man. Both Abraham and Sarah would get their ideal from the light vouchsafed in chapter 17. So when Isaac was born, Ishmael must go.
ENH I suppose in line with that, it is the mother, or the maternal instinct, that would have Ishmael to go.
JT Yes; Sarah insists on his leaving the house. “The son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac”, Genesis 21:10.
JPW Does “Jerusalem above” answer to Sarah?
JT Yes. You not only have light as to the paternal side (God is our Father), but you have light also about the mother. “Jerusalem above ... is our mother”. Galatians 4:26. The latter has reference to our calling. It is the system we are connected with, and from which we take character.
JPW And is that the thought of formation?
JT I think so. Anyone who has the light of “Jerusalem above” would never think of being a citizen of a city or country down here. The maternal side is utterly lacking in Christendom.
EM Anyone in the light of “Jerusalem above” would not recognise the legal systems around us?
JT No. Christendom is Hagar. “Hagar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which is now”. Galatians 4:25. That is to say, it is in a desert, where Babylon is ultimately found; Revelation 17: 3. But “Jerusalem above” is our mother, and she is free. I venture to say there is not a thought in Scripture less understood than that of “mother”.
AMcC What do you mean by the mother?
JT In Scripture it represents a system of things set forth in Hagar or “mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which is now, for she is in bondage with her children”. Galatians 4:25. And children are begotten of her. God was in relation with that system. The father, like Abram, was right, but the mother was simply an Egyptian. Jerusalem was simply a slave; hence her children were like Ishmael, and the test came when Christ was presented. They persecuted Him that was born after the Spirit.
JM “Jerusalem above is free, which is our mother”, Galatians 4:26.
JT What I understand by that is the light we have as to the assembly. It is a principle, that anyone who has that light can never associate himself with an earthly system — a cathedral, or anything of that type.
TMG Such a system has to do with the wrong man.
PL Maternal instincts must be formed if the family spirit is to prevail.
JM The working out of the system connected with “Jerusalem above” would really be the truth of sonship?
JT The working out of it is liberty; that is, if she is above, you are entitled to go up too.
JM It is what is formed in those who are sons.
TMG If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
JT That is the thought in it. Now this mother, that Paul alludes to here, did not fully come to light until Stephen’s rejection. It was Paul’s ministry that brought it [p. 127] to light.
EJMcB That is to say, up to the rejection of Stephen there was a link with the Jerusalem here.
PL Stephen “looked up steadfastly into heaven”. Acts 7:55. Would that suggest the heavenly system?
JT Yes. The heavenly system was bound to be in the light that shone around Saul. The light came out of heaven above the brightness of the sun. The light is out of heaven; that is to say, it is not out of Jerusalem; and the voice is out of heaven, not from Jerusalem. Jerusalem has forfeited her title to speak.
EJMcB It is beautiful to see how the liberty comes out in Paul, how free he was. Peter was, in a large measure, trammelled. See Galatians 2.
JT What one notices in many Christians is that the ideal is there, but there is nothing brought forth for God.
JM What would help us in that line?
JT Well, we need more than to have the right ideal; we need power. As Hezekiah said, “the children are come to the birth, and there is not strength to bring forth”, Isaiah 37: 3. Again, Isaiah says, “we have been in pain, we have, as it were, brought forth wind”, Isaiah 26:18. Then later, “Before she travailed she brought forth; before her pain came she was delivered of a man child”, Isaiah 66:7. In this respect the birth of Christ was not exactly the result of Israel’s travail. Revelation 12:1,2 involves more than His literal birth. He was brought in from God’s side. But after Zion travailed she brought forth her children, Isaiah 66:8: that is the day of Pentecost in principle. Bringing this down to practical experience, it shows that, having the light, you have exercises, and then you pray. Because, after all, it is only in divine strength that you “bring forth”. So that what is brought forth is the product of God’s [p. 128] power.
WH Is that the point in Isaiah — is it a question of God’s power?
JT Yes; I think the last chapter of Isaiah develops the thought of travail, and the product of travail: it is not wind, but “sons”. “Instead of thy fathers shall be thy children (sons), whom thou mayest make princes in all the earth”, Psalm 45: 16.
JB “Strengthened with power by his Spirit in the inner man”, Ephesians 3:16.
JT Yes. There, however, it is not simply that Christ is formed in them, but that He should dwell in their hearts.
EJMcB With reference to what was said about exercises, it is evident that the apostle in large measure passed through these exercises for the Galatian brethren; and it seems to me that he suggests what would give character to them. Is that the idea of the mother?
JT I think so. The father always gives the status. You might have a very dignified person as a matter of rank with a very poor character. The character comes from the mother. She is the one who bears the child; and the ideal of the mother is the father. Do you follow what I mean? Christ is the ideal — God in Christ — and all the exercise is to bring about what corresponds.
ENH Referring to Isaiah 66:7. Before Zion travailed she brought forth — does that refer to the present time; to all that was from Pentecost onward?
JT We are not the product of Zion’s travail at all; and yet God in grace accredits Jerusalem with the fruit of Paul’s labours: “more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife”, Isaiah 54:1; Galatians 4: 27, That is to say, there are more children now than when Israel was formally owned as the wife. She is not owned now. She [p. 129] is desolate.
EJMcB That in a sense would involve “the Israel of God”, Galatians 6:16.
EM All this involves real exercise, or travail, on our side, to answer to the position in which we are set.
JT That is it; you get the idea, and now you are to be exercised in order that it should be brought about; and, as it has been referred to previously in these meetings, it is the antidote to Antichrist; if you have the right ideal before you, you will not be carried away by Antichrist. Well now, when you come to chapter 6, what the apostle states is that in Christ Jesus circumcision avails nothing, nor uncircumcision, but new creation.
JM What does that convey to you?
JT It signifies that all in Christ is the work of God; that is the result. There is nothing of man in it at all. So that the result of our exercises is literally seen to be the fruit of God’s work. It is new creation. “And as many as shall walk by this rule, peace upon them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God”. Galatians 6:16.
ENH Would you say that “new creation” and “in Christ” are synonymous?
JT “If any one be in Christ there is a new creation”, 2 Corinthians 5:17. There is nothing else but new creation there; so that although we are exercised and have the labour, the product is all regarded as God’s work.
EJMcB Our mother being free, she is not hampered by any earthly system, so that she can support and sustain a character that is entirely free from them all. I should like a word or two more as to the remark you made about the thought of the mother being very little understood.
JT Well, I think it is very little understood, and therefore it seems to me as if the subject should be traced in Scripture, because all the personages [p. 130] that were brought forth, whose birth is signalised, were the outcome of the conception which the light of God previously afforded. The thought conveyed in Noah was a conception. When he was born his parents said that he should comfort them concerning their work and the toil of their hands, because of the ground which the Lord had cursed. Isaac also represented an ideal previously conceived in a marked way; and so you will find all through. Solomon was an example, and also Samuel.
EJMcB One can understand the paternal side set forth in Christ — a beautiful thought it is too. But then you get this thought of “Jerusalem above, which is our mother”; and it would seem as if there was a system of things that would nourish that ideal set before in the paternal side. In speaking of good kings Scripture frequently draws attention to their mothers.
JM Is it under that system that formation is carried on in our souls?
JT Yes, surely. So that it comes to this — what is it that God is now in relationship with? That is the idea of the mother. That is the influence you are to be under. There is that with which God is pleased to be in relationship on the ground of the covenant.
PL Is that why in Exodus you have “Honour thy father and thy mother”? Exodus 20:12. When you come to Leviticus, where approach to God is, it is reversed — mother and father. It says in chapter 19, “Ye shall be holy: for I the Lord your God am holy. Ye shall fear every man his mother and his father, and keep my sabbaths; I am the Lord your God”. Leviticus 19:3.
EJMcB That would seem to be a beautiful suggestion, that in regard to the question of approach, the influence you are under had a good deal to do with [p. 131] it.
PL Scripture says nothing in regard to David’s mother; it is a question of his father; but when you come to Solomon you get a very great deal about his mother. See Proverbs 31: l — 9.
JT The apostle brought in Christ at Corinth, and he says, “I have espoused you unto one man, to present you a chaste virgin to Christ, But I fear lest by any means, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craft, so your thoughts should be corrupted from simplicity as to the Christ”, 2 Corinthians 11:2,3. Now Eve was beguiled because she did not hold to her first ideal. Her ideal was Adam, undoubtedly, but she disregarded this in listening to the serpent. Paul was anxious as to the Corinthians, that their minds should not be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
EJMcB Evidently here you can see the Galatians had been bewitched, and Paul wondered who had bewitched them. He had presented Christ to them.
RL What is your thought about the joy of the mother in John?
JT Well, I think the Lord accredits the disciples with His being everything to them. He was the Man of their hearts. The Lord accredits them with maternal affections.
EJMcB You have the Man idea in the Gospels, and now what you expect to find with the apostles is the maternal instincts — the desire that there should be a response to that Man; the saints nurtured in the thought which God had set before them in Christ.
RL And that gives the thought that the mother is still in existence.
EJMcB And the beauty of it is that she is free to nourish.
EM What is the thought of the full grown man, Ephesians 4:13?
[p. 132] JT The gifts have that in view; it is to show the thought in the gifts being given; it is ministry that is in view: “until we all arrive at the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, at the full-grown man, at the measure of the stature of the fulness of the Christ”. Ephesians 4:13.
PL I suppose all true ministry is from the maternal side?
JT Yes; certainly we see it in Paul here.
EJMcB It dismisses all ideas of officialism; to a mother, the needs of her children are her needs. So he says, “by love serve one another”. Galatians 5:13.
PL And the children would rise and call their mother blessed?
JT The book of Proverbs sets the mother side before us in a marked way, especially chapter 31.
Ques What form would the exercises take with us to bring forth the ideal?
JT Well, the desire to have the ideal produces the exercises. Children may be born, but the real labour and sorrow come in in the forming of them. I mean, if a mother is spiritual, she has God before her.
EJMcB When you see departure from God in the children, then the real pain comes in.
JT Yes; hence you see in Psalm 113:9, that it is the woman who learns to keep house, who becomes a joyful mother of children. She learns to keep house first.