"THAT WHICH WAS FROM THE BEGINNING" (1)
“THAT WHICH WAS FROM THE BEGINNING” (1)
JT The beginning here is of Christianity as seen in Christ. It is thought that it might help if we were to see what was at the beginning, what was introduced in the beginning in Christ. If we get a right thought as to that, we should have right thoughts as to the measure of our growth. Growth is to be according to that measure, the fulness of it is to know “him that is from the beginning”. 1 John 2:13. You will observe, it is not here “that which was in the beginning”, but “that which was from the beginning”. 1 John 1:1. “In the beginning was the Word”, John 1:1 is the opening of John’s gospel, but here it is “That which was from the beginning”.
FL And I suppose it is equally significant that it is not He which is from the beginning; it is that which was from the beginning.
Ques Would you make a difference between eternal life and Christianity?
JT There is a difference. The passage here reads, “concerning the word of life”. 1 John 1:1. It refers to what the apostles were cognisant of by observation.
JB What was it that the fathers knew?
JT Him that is from the beginning. They had come to an apprehension of the Lord as presented in the gospels.
BTF Why is the pronoun He not used?
JT It is not exactly the Person, but the thing that was seen in Him.
AAT In John 15:27 it speaks of the beginning, “ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning”.
JT [p. 337] That indicates what is in the apostle’s mind here.
FL The importance of it should be seen for the reason that the individuals who were capable of bearing that testimony had nearly all disappeared, so that unless John brought it out it could not be brought out at all.
JT “That which we have seen and heard we report to you”, 1 John 1: 3. Luke’s gospel is founded on the testimony of the twelve; it is not the result of personal observation, but it is the record of one intensely interested in and sympathetic with the apostle’s testimony.
EJW John’s gospel and his epistle are both written as safeguards for us. The gospel, I suppose, is written to safeguard the truth of the Lord’s Person, hence it opens with “In the beginning was the Word” John 1:1; while the epistle is written to safeguard the truth as to Christianity, and therefore it opens with, “That which was from the beginning”, 1 John 1:1 referring to the divine starting point of that which is finally for God.
JT There is nothing to be added.
EJW And nothing before it.
JT No, it was all there.
RSS In the gospel it is “the Son of God” and in the epistle it is “Jesus Christ come in flesh”. 1 John 4:3.
EJW I suppose “The Son of God” is prominent in both the gospel and the epistle.
JT The truth had taken form in Christ, and it was all there; therefore, it was not something to be developed. Men are to grow up to it, but it was all there in completeness in that Man.
FL The epistle was written for “the last hour”. That which was from the beginning becomes the point of recovery and safeguard for the last hour.
JT John seems to be a sort of reserve man in Scripture, Peter’s commission was very clear, and [p. 338] Peter desired to know what John was to do, but the Lord was very indefinite as to John’s special work. He purposely hid the service that John was designed for, and therefore the word to Peter is, “If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?” John 21:22. There was a saying that that disciple should not die, but John himself does not enlighten us any more as to this than the Lord did; the matter is just left. In due time the wisdom of the Lord in having a reserve man comes to light.
FL Wisdom has always a resource; so that when the outward fabric of Christianity is shattered, the Lord brings His reserve into view.
JT It gives a peculiar place to John’s writings. In Patmos he was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day; he was engaged, as we may say, with heavenly things. Presently he heard a voice behind him calling him back, as it were, from his proper heavenly portion to engage him with Christ in relation to God’s governmental dealings on earth. He is shown all that God would do from that time until the coming of the assembly out of heaven; in other words, he is the reserve man and prepared to do whatever the Lord has for him to do. Instead of apostolic labours, his are to be those of a prophet or seer. In this crisis, for the enemy was attacking the truth, he comes in to show that that which was from the beginning is the truth; it was all there, there was nothing to be added, nor was Christianity something to be developed.
WHF John goes down to the end, and his ministry is that which brings back to first love; it effects recovery.
FL There is no idea of impairment of knowledge in what is spiritual. John was old, but he gives out what is original and in freshness. As our brother says, it recalls to first love. There is no mark of age or [p. 339] infirmity.
JT What you will notice is, that while in Revelation expressions are used that denote distance, in the epistle John is back in family relations. There can be nothing, in a way, that is more important than to be reminded of the completeness of the thing as presented in Christ. There is no development in it; it is all there. There is growth in the saints, as the next chapter shows, but the measure of growth is the knowledge of Him that is from the beginning.
TR Growth is on our side; there is none in Christ, nothing less than that which is from the beginning. There is no less at the last hour than there was at the beginning.
AAT Is that why in the next chapter he speaks of fathers, because there is full development?
JT The next chapter, in that way, is the corresponding side in us, growth from the babe to the father; but the fulness of knowledge of Him that is from the beginning is the standard. John is like Samuel’s mother; year after year she brought a little coat for her son; in making each coat she would be reminded of his growth, for she would have to make it larger. It is a poor thing if the clothes of last year fit one this year.
FL I am afraid they hang pretty loosely on some of us!
Ques What do you mean by clothes?
JT The circumstances around you; so that as you grow your circumstances become altered to agree with the growth. There should be agreement between one’s circumstances and one’s growth.
BTF Was the coat not to be an indication of what the person was?
JT It was; so the exhortations are very largely that we should have right clothes.
EJW You mean that if a person is growing, he finds that things he was formerly happy about, such as those connected with his habits and associations,
[p. 340] do not now agree with the enlarged affection and intelligence, and therefore must needs he discarded.
Rem Peter says, “grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ”, 2 Peter 3:28.
Ques What is the thing from the beginning?
JT “That which was from the beginning, that which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes; that which we contemplated, and our hands handled, concerning the word of life”. 1 John 1:1. The apostle refers to Jesus Christ come in flesh, but what is in his mind is to speak of life. What he had seen and handled has reference to the Word of life.
EJW It would take in the whole purpose of God as to what man should be in relation to Him in life. That purpose has now come to light and been properly established in that Man, and is God’s present testimony.
JT The life was manifested, and “that which we have seen”, refers to the Lord as come in flesh. It is most important to note as to eternal life that it was with the Father.
EJW I suppose it would indicate the new plane on which this new order of things is established it is “with the Father”, not “with Jehovah”, or “with Almighty God”, but with God revealed as Father.
JT Think of all that entered into such a sight! They were privileged to see a Man in all the intimacy of a Son with the Father! That is a great thing to get primarily in the way of light into one’s soul. It is all in that setting, and as you said, we now have access to it, but it was objectively before the eyes of the apostles; it was all there, but they had no part in it yet.
EJW At the same time there is, I take it, the underlying thought that it is the purpose of God’s love regarding man: so “as he is”, and “which thing is true in him and in you”, 1 John 2:8 are characteristic of the teaching of the epistle.
JT The first chapter emphasises what they saw; you cannot see the full thing in any of us or even in the whole assembly as they saw it in Christ. What is in Christ must be unique in itself, but it becomes a wonderful basis in the soul of the believer as a matter of light. “That which we have seen and heard we report to you, that ye also may have fellowship with us; and our fellowship is indeed with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ”. 1 John 1:3. So that the thing is put on its own proper basis. It is presented to our souls as a matter of light, and that is what we are to grow up to.
EJW I suppose the idea of the testimony is prominent in these verses.
JT That is what I thought.
EJW And that which is presented is God’s testimony regarding His purpose as to man; it is “the word of life”. 1 John 1:1.
JT Due allowance is made for something unique in Christ; He must have the pre-eminence. If the eternal life was with the Father in Christ, it was peculiar. One can understand that all that the Son is must have lent a peculiar character to His relations as Man with the Father.
EJW That comes out in John’s gospel very distinctly.
FL I think some of us would be helped if you would explain a little what you mean by being set in a family setting. We might perhaps confuse it in our minds with our home circle.
JT There is nothing more interesting. In one’s business or in one’s relations with men of the world the thought of growth does not arise. You may have the thought of education, but what does interest a parent or an elder brother or sister is the growth [p. 342] of the younger members of the family, and this is what John especially presents to us. So I think the point of introducing that eternal life which was with the Father is, that it is a Man seen in that peculiar place, as yet alone in it, but nevertheless there. A Man was in relation with God revealed as Father. A Man in circumstances, outwardly, such as our own, and indeed in flesh and blood, because I have no doubt it refers to that period. It becomes light in the soul of the believer, so that he acquires a knowledge of the relationship in which he is set with God. There is growth in that, and one may gauge one s growth. I think chapter 2 helps in that connection.
FL So the Lord when here looked up to heaven and said, Father! There was a Man in circumstances such as our own, who when here on earth turned naturally and simply to heaven saying, Father! That is your thought in regard to Christ personally here. So speaking, He refers to the fact that the Father’s pleasure was that He should give eternal life to as many as He had given Him, and “This is life eternal, that they might know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent”. John 17:3. But His position was unique.
JT I think it comes out in a special way in the end of Matthew 11, where all is hopeless on the line of the flesh, and there was positive opposition to Christ. Under these circumstances He turns to the Father and says, “I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes” Matthew 11:25 and then He speaks of the revelation of the Father. Then He invites those that are weary to come to Him to obtain rest, saying, “Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me”. Matthew 11:29. It seems as though He is speaking from His position at that time. Man in the presence of the Father and in the light of the Father’s prerogative in heaven and earth. These epistles open up to us what it is to learn from Christ. John himself is an example, he found rest in the Lord’s bosom.
BTF It is distinct in some measure from what we speak of as assembly privilege, is it not? It is the Lord walking in the pathway of responsibility and being in relation to the Father.
JT Eternal life is distinct from heavenly privilege; it is a universal blessing. The apostles saw it in Christ while He was among them. They saw Him “with the Father”. Though in flesh and blood and having to do with ordinary human affairs, His life was with God. Death had no influence over His spirit; He had free access to God, whom He set always before Him. He invites all weary ones to come and learn of Him. There was a Man in complete superiority to all circumstances; now He is to be learnt from, and those who take His yoke and learn from Him find rest in their souls. He was a Man, as we see in Psalm 16:8, who had “set the Lord always before” Him He rises above adverse circumstances and speaks directly to the Father. I do not say that these outward circumstances constitute eternal life; the evidence of it was there. It is not, “that eternal life that was with men”, but “with the Father” The apostles evidently saw beyond outward circumstances.
BTF That throws much light on what we have in this chapter.
JT What the epistle develops is that “as he is, so are we in this world”. 1 John 4:17. In chapter 2 we have “which thing is true in him and in you” 1 John 2:8; in chapter 4 we have full correspondence, “as he is so are we in this world”. 1 John 4:17.
EJW The early verses have in view the fact that death rested upon everything here; those in touch with God would keenly feel that, as seen in [p. 344] Isaiah 38, and all along were looking for the intervention of God which He had promised as that by which He would bring in life where all was death. Now this is come to pass in the Lord having come in flesh, and all the blessed purpose of God as to which faith had glimmerings all along has been fully established, and nothing can be added.
JT What chapter 1 presents is, “that eternal life was with the Father”. 1 John 1:2. It is what Christ was here as immune from death; all around was under death, but here was One entirely free from it, a Man that could look up into the face of God without a cloud, and who was consciously in victory. No circumstances could in the least degree overwhelm Him, He was in victory, so in that way He becomes a model or object for us, we are to learn from Him, for the apostle says, “that which we have seen and heard declare we unto you”. 1 John 1:3.
EJW I would suggest that “the beginning” here is a wide thought, embracing all that was found here in the Lord as Man, going on to His resurrection state, in which He was seen and heard and handled as a Man in the power of an eternal victory over death.
PHP Where do we get light as to what was from the beginning?
JT We get it now from the writings of the apostles, and the writings of those who wrote on their testimony, such as Mark and Luke. The Gospels are perhaps the books least understood among the Lord’s people.
EJW And we have the anointing to make good in us in divine power and intelligence that which the Gospels bring before us.
WLP Does that passage, “The life was the light of men”, John 1:4, refer to Him as seen in this chapter?
JT I think so. The apostles were witnesses of it. This chapter presents the apostles’ testimony as to [p. 345] eternal life as seen in Christ. They are the accredited witnesses of the light; they were told to stand in the temple and “speak all the words of this life”. Acts 5:20. They were authorised to bear testimony to that life, and their writings, of course, are accredited to us now, and also the writings of those that wrote on their testimony. We have the truth in that way presented objectively in the Gospels. Then of course you have the Spirit, the Lord said the Spirit should bear witness, too. In chapter 1 the great point is the light conveyed in the apostles “report”.
TA Do you mean by the light the revelation of God?
JT Not quite, although it comes in incidentally. In chapter 1 it is more what Christ was in manhood; that is to say, it is a question of how the truth took form in that which they had contemplated and handled and seen. The apostle was combating the false teaching that Christianity is a development.
JS In Christ in manhood we see the truth in its entirety.
JT After chapter 1, the apostle proceeds to the subjective side; growth is indicated in chapter 2. In this chapter it is more the completeness of the truth as having taken form in Christ.
Ques What does it mean as to its being true in us, 1 John 2: 8?
JT “Which thing is true in him and in you”. He was what the “commandment” implies, and now it is true in us, but in a limited way. In the first chapter it is complete. What is in the apostle’s mind to combat is the idea that Christianity is a development; there is development, but it is in the way of growth in our souls. All was perfect and complete in Christ.
CAM The latter part of chapter 1 shows that all is taken care of that we might enter into the light of these things.
[p. 346] JT The conscience is no hindrance to you. You are in the presence of all that light, but not hampered by your conscience, for “the blood of Jesus Christ, his Son, cleanseth us from all sin”. 1 John 1:7.
AAT John uses the expression “Alpha and Omega”; that shows there is no development.
EJW In Colossians we have, “who is the beginning”, Colossians 1:18. For God there is really nothing before Christ; the pleasure of God in regard to man is completely established and seen in Christ; it is not a development, nor that to which anything can be added; therefore we are to abide in that which we have heard from the beginning.
Ques Is there any essential difference between eternal life in John’s writings and in Paul’s?
JT In Paul’s writings eternal life is presented as effectuated by, or through, Jesus Christ our Lord, whereas, as effectuated, it is in Christ Jesus our Lord. The effectuation of it has reference to what Jesus is as Man, but as effectuated it is seen in Him as anointed. The complete thing is seen in the anointed Man, whereas the effectuation of it is by the Man Jesus Christ. “Jesus” is put first.
The position of it, as effectuated is in the anointed Man; see Romans 5:21; Romans 6:23. Where things are fixed as effectuated it is in “Christ Jesus”, but they are brought to pass through “Jesus Christ” involving His death. Death and resurrection must take place before divine blessings could be available to men, but how secure they are for us as in Christ Jesus!
RSS That is Paul; will you speak of John?
JT I do not think John differs in that respect, We have “Jesus Christ come in flesh” in this epistle 1 John 4:2; eternal life is through Him. “Jesus Christ” generally presents the Lord as on the divine side to carry out the will of God, but in chapter 5, eternal life is said to be in “his Son”. One great point of the epistle [p. 347] is that it had taken form in that Man. Now it is fixed. So in the last chapter the life is said to be in God’s Son. One difference between Paul and John is that the former says, “Jesus Christ, our Lord”, the latter “Jesus Christ, his Son”. Then Paul says eternal life is in “Christ Jesus”, John says it is in “his Son”. Further, Paul presents eternal life as future; John usually speaks of it as a present blessing.
BTF Is not the object of the epistle found in verse 4, “that your joy might be full”? 1 John 1:4.
JT So our joy really is full in coming into that glorious light, the light of Christ as Man in the presence of God.
EJW It is important to note that the epistle presses Jesus Christ come in flesh; it refers to His manhood, of course, and has in view that we are men, and that God’s love is set on man; that is what makes it valuable for us. If the humanity of Christ is lost, everything is lost.
WHF What the apostle reports is what came out in that Man here. The apostle had seen and handled Him.
JT He presents the idea of a Man with God; now we come into the light of that God and that Man. God as revealed has to be known, and Christ as Man has to be known, for eternal life, John 17: 3.
Ques “This life is in his Son”. Does that refer to Him as in heaven?
JT It is more the Person in whom it is. It is He who came by water and blood; it refers to Him as He is now.
FL In this line it might help us to see that John wrote us this epistle; Paul could not write to us thus because he had not been in the circumstances, he had not “seen” and “handled”, so that he could not report to us in this way. We have thus a fundamental starting point in the difference between Paul’s ministry and John’s in both gospel and epistles. That is shown all through. John had companied with the Lord during His ministry. Paul had had his interview with Christ from heaven, not as Man on earth, so that his start was essentially different.
JT Yes; so that he gave account of Christ as the “second man out of heaven”. 1 Corinthians 15:47. With Paul, it is, “as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly” 1 Corinthians 15:48; in John it is, “as he is, so are we in this world”. 1 John 4:17. Paul ever leads on to the full purpose of God in heaven. John is mainly engaged with Revelation and its consequences here on earth.
JLJ “Which was with the Father” 1 John 1:2; is that present, not past?
JT It refers to what they saw, “which was with the Father”.
FL It is a question of what was and is morally true.
JLJ I have a little difficulty in connecting eternal life with the Father in the past.
JT I think it refers to the Lord as a Man with God.
FL There is nothing morally different in that blessed One here from what was ever true; there was a prepared body, circumstances were different but He Himself was not different.
JT Eternal life with the Father alludes to a Man; “heard”, “seen”, “handled”, denote incarnation. Beside, it is “from the beginning”, not “in”.
FL Eternal life could only be displayed in a sphere where death and all its consequences had been in evidence.
CAM I was thinking of John 15. I was going to ask if it is not Christ perpetuated?
JT Perpetuated in the saints? Quite. Therefore, one would hesitate in connecting this state with what we speak of as the state of Deity, that is not true in us. So that I think it is what the apostle [p. 349] refers to as Man with the Father; eternal life was there, but He was also the resurrection, and it is that which brings us into it. “I am the resurrection and the life”, John 11: 25. The point is that we are brought in in resurrection. I think resurrection breaks the power of death in your soul. That is what Mary and Martha had to learn; they were to see the glory. The one who believes, sees the glory of God; the glory of God in that respect is resurrection, namely, bringing man out of death. He says, He is the resurrection and the life; resurrection secures the thing for us, it breaks the power of death over the soul.
WHF Eternal life is in the resurrection sphere.
JT He has annulled death and brought to light life and incorruptibility.
AR “The promise of life in Christ Jesus”; what promise?
JT A promise in Scripture is in answer to a desire. A commandment on the part of God is to meet certain requirements; the Father’s commandment is everlasting life. The promise of life more meets the desire that you and I would have; but then as to the Lord Himself, He asked life of God, and He gave it to Him, “even length of days for ever and ever”. Psalm 21:4. A commandment is imperative on account of certain conditions.
RJC To command the blessing is to establish it?
JT It is a necessity, so to say, of God’s nature in view of certain conditions; whereas the promise arises from the desire on man’s part.
RSS It is a necessity on our part that we receive it.
RJC The blessing of eternal life is now commanded?
JT It is the Father’s commandment arising, I think, from the necessity of His own nature.
RSS In view of sin and [p. 350] death.
JT I think commandments arise from the necessity of the divine nature; even if you take the ten commandments, they are that.
EJW It would suppose, too, that the sovereignty and power of God are there; He commanded the blessing.
CAM We sometimes allude to eternal life as connected with a sphere; is it collective when it says “manifested to us”? 1 John 1:2.
JT That refers to the apostles. Eternal life is enjoyed in relation to the brethren; see 1 John 3:14, but in chapter 2 it is what the apostles witnessed in Christ personally.
EJW That is a rock for us which nothing can move, and therefore it is of such immense importance to be preserved to us. The further we are from “the beginning” historically, the more corrupt Christianity becomes, and the more important that the rock should be preserved to us, and that we should abide in it.
JT It was manifested in Christ as always superior to circumstances, always in the spirit of rejoicing. But it refers to what He was with the Father.
RSS All this is a complete answer to the idea of development about which we have been hearing a great deal.
JT You find the answer to evolution in this epistle. Even as early as Genesis 1:29, you have the tree “in which is the fruit of a tree producing seed”; as if the Spirit of God foresaw the attack of the devil and placed in chapter 1 of Genesis the exposure of the fallacy of evolution. Whatever there is of God true in man now, it was true in Christ first.