MATTHEW'S GOSPEL IN VIEW OF THE ASSEMBLY (3)
MATTHEW’S GOSPEL IN VIEW OF THE ASSEMBLY (3)
Matthew 9:27 - 31; Matthew 10:1 - 15; Matthew 10:41,42
JT It is mainly in mind, in proposing these verses, to deal with apostleship as it is seen in Matthew; but the verses in chapter 9 are especially suggested because they bear on the idea of faith. It says in verse 27, “And as Jesus passed on thence, two blind men followed him, crying and saying, Have mercy on us, Son of David. And when he was come to the house, the blind men came to him. And Jesus says to them, Do ye believe ... ?” This is what I wanted to bring to the attention of the brethren: “Do ye believe that I am able to do this? They say to him, Yea, Lord”. That is the reason why the verses were read in chapter 9, as bearing on chapter 10. And then we should notice in chapter 10:41,42, the reference to relative values, that is to say what a prophet is, what a righteous man is, and so on. I am saying all this so that the brethren will understand what is in mind.
JHP Why does faith come in at that point in chapter 9?
JT I think in view of apostleship, that is, the dispensation is to be in faith; as Paul says, “God’s dispensation, which is in faith” (1 Timothy 1:4). Things are to be in faith, they are not simply to be acquired in colleges and the like, but it is a question of faith. Of course there must be ability divinely given, but still it is a question of faith, because a person may be very able as to natural ability and yet have no faith and therefore deny the truth of the dispensation.
Ques Is that what marked Matthew when he left his tax office to follow the Lord?
JT Just so. He was a tax-gatherer, meaning that he was a man who knew how to make money.
[p. 43] So that apostleship in christianity is not a money-making matter or anything of the kind; it is a question of men being diverted from all that and being in faith. That is what Matthew is dealing with.
CFE Is the gospel received by the individual in faith?
JT Well, quite so; but it is a question of what is meant by the passage, “Faith then is by a report, but the report by God’s word” (Romans 10:17). It is a question of the ears; we had it yesterday, and we want to open that up a little bit as to its bearing on the present dispensation; that it is not a question of colleges and all that on which so-called christianity is built up; it is a question of what is in faith.
AJEW One of the outstanding features connected with Timothy as Paul speaks of him was unfeigned faith that had been in his mother and his grandmother also. Does that fit in?
JT Just so, showing that it was a household matter and it had come down to him. It is a question of how children are to be brought up in view of the testimony, that the mother and the grandmother, as it were, would take them as children and inculcate the truth of the gospel into their hearts and thus bring them up in the truth; that is the point. There are a lot of young here today, very young ones, some of them, and the point is to get them into faith, to get all of us into faith; it is the dispensation of faith as we have already remarked.
JHP I was thinking what a testing word this is, “According to your faith, be it unto you”.
JT That is why I thought of reading this section in chapter 9; it has such a great place in the testimony of the gospel, this very chapter.
JHP Would that come down to families and localities?
JT I think so, because christianity is intended to be built up on faith, but it was to be in relation [p. 44] to households; the word in Acts 16:31, “Believe on the Lord Jesus and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy house”.
CHH Does the word in 1 Timothy 1:4 bear on it? “Nor to turn their minds to fables and interminable genealogies, which bring questionings rather than further God’s dispensation, which is in faith”.
JT “Which is in faith”; just so, that is where chapter 9 bears on chapter 10.
ABP Would that link on with the word in Hebrews 11:6, “But without faith it is impossible to please him. For he that draws near to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them who seek him out”?
JT It would.
LLP Would you say that Hebrews 11 is especially set for the building up of the assembly, as having in it the thought of faith perhaps more than any other chapter?
JT That is, the idea of the chapter is faith; it is running right through. It begins faith’s exercises in verse 3: “By faith we apprehend that the worlds were framed by the word of God”.
AR Is there something important in the fact that there are two blind men in Matthew instead of one? I was wondering if it really has in mind the assembly, of which it says, “If two of you shall agree” (Matthew 18:19).
JT Just so, that is one great idea that comes into the truth, two instead of one.
FHL And it is in connection with getting light, is it not, the same as with the two in chapter 20? It is a question of getting their eyes opened. “And lo, two blind men, sitting by the wayside, having heard that Jesus was passing by, cried out saying, Have mercy on us, Lord, Son of David” (verse 30). The Lord does not challenge them as to their faith there, perhaps because they call Him “Lord”, but [p. 45] I was thinking in both cases of the two who were blind and needed the light.
JT Here the thought that is stressed is faith in the two. It is said, “As Jesus passed on thence, two blind men followed him”. But they were too talkative, as we see when we come on down to the end of the paragraph; it says in verse 31, “But they, when they were gone out, spread his name abroad in all that land”. But the Lord had charged them, “See, let no man know it”. That is, it is not a question of publicity, making a show of the thing, but of the secret power of faith; it is a question of faith, that we believe in what the Lord states, that He is able to do it.
JHP Is there a suggestion there that the mystery and hiding would be connected with this great matter of faith? I was thinking that the Lord charged them sharply, “See, let no man know it”; and although that applied to this particular incident, yet I was wondering whether the whole thought of the mystery and what is hidden as developed by Paul would not be connected closely with this matter of faith?
JT Very good, I would say that fully, it is Paul’s way of teaching; because he is really the leading man in christianity, whatever we may say as to the others. He is the man to whom the mystery is committed and that is the truth; things were committed to Paul.
ABP Are we to regard faith as God’s sovereign gift? Would there be some condition in the believer which vindicates God in giving faith?
JT That is right.
FJF Is faith to be always present in our gatherings?
JT That is the idea, that is why we are here today. Christianity involves faith; if it is not in faith it is nothing, it is just a matter of what is in the seminaries and the like. But christianity is in [p. 46] faith. As we said before, it is “God’s dispensation, which is in faith”. There is absolutely nothing else if there is not that.
CHH Would you say that faith is preceded by repentance — “repentance towards God, and faith towards our Lord Jesus Christ” (Acts 20:21)? I was wondering whether the preaching of the word as to the goodness of God would first of all lead men to repentance, and then God gives His gift of faith?
JT It is the goodness of God, and that is what we are aiming at; we do not want to leave this point of faith in chapter 9. We are dealing with these two men and they were too talkative; they had too much to say instead of abiding by what the Lord had said, that they were not to say anything. “Jesus charged them sharply, saying, See, let no man know it”. That is to say the thing is to be held in a secret way, not making a special show of it. The many churches would speak of all that sort of thing, which entirely sets aside the idea of christianity.
JF Is that an unwarranted exposure of a treasure that the Lord had given to these men, of something that was secret with the Lord?
JT Quite so; it ought to have been a secret matter that was held in power; it is a question of christianity in power.
Ques Is that what Paul had in mind in Colossians 3:3,4? “For ye have died, and your life is hid with the Christ in God. When the Christ is manifested who is our life, then shall ye also be manifested with him in glory”. We have to wait till then for the manifestation. Is that right?
JT “When the Christ is manifested”. What is your point in that, please?
Rem My point was that the Lord had enjoined these men to say nothing; and I thought Paul’s point in Colossians was the same, that some were [p. 47] making a vain show of things whereas the word is, “For ye have died, and your life is hid”.
JT It is the word ‘hid’. The word ‘hid’ is a leading word in Colossians: “your life is hid with the Christ in God”. It is the very opposite to the show that is often made in connection with the truth.
ANW You mentioned the matter of testimony in connection with this. Is the testimony in what the men are rather than in what they say?
JT There is testimony because the thing happened; the thing happened to them. The Lord put it to them on those lines, that they must believe that it is to happen. He says to them, “Do ye believe that I am able to do this? They say to him, Yea, Lord”. Then He touched their eyes. That is the ground on which the thing is; they believed in the power, although they had too much to say afterwards. But they believed in the power, and the evidence was that their eyes were opened. The thing was done.
WWM Yesterday you were referring to Romans 10:17 where it says that “faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God”. It says of Cornelius and those that were with him in the house that “the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were hearing the word” (Acts 10:44). Peter in referring to it in Acts 15 says, “And the heart-knowing God bore them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit as to us also ... having purified their hearts by faith”. So that faith coming by hearing would prove that they had some faith there in Cornelius’ house, had they not?
JT Evidently; so that it is a question of power; that is the thing. The Lord’s becoming a Man was to bring out the power that was in Him, that He was able to do things. And that is the general principle, that a man is able to do things; it is not what a man says; it is what he is able to do. That is what [p. 48] Matthew would bring out, and indeed we have the same feature in all the gospels.
Ques In chapter 9:2, it says, “And Jesus, seeing their faith ...” Does that work out today in our dispensation, that others can be blessed through the faith of those that have it?
JT Just so, He saw their faith; it is the same in Mark, that He acted when He saw their faith.
Ques How is it possible today for somebody to be blessed through the faith that may be, for instance, in me?
JT Surely it may be; many a child has been blessed through the faith of his father. We should bring up our children in faith. We bring them up in the knowledge of the word of God, but it is in view of each having faith himself. We bring up our children in view of their having faith, of their taking on things vitally. With Timotheus it was a question of the faith of his mother and grandmother. They brought him up on the word, that is, in the light of the Scriptures. Then there was development in Timotheus, that was the great fruit of it.
Ques So we can rely on that today?
JT Certainly; therefore we bring up our children in faith. It is of immense moment that we should bring our children to the meetings; the small and great, bring them to the meetings. Let them hear what is said and they will gradually come into the idea of faith.
Ques Can we extend the idea, for instance, to the union matter? The brethren have faith that God will come in. One brother who is in the union may not have that faith; but do you not think it could be extended in that way?
JT Very good. We have such as those in New York and it is the very thing that is exercising us. One brother gave up as soon as he was told he could [p. 49] not be employed any longer on the former basis; he just said nothing, whereas he should have gone to the department head and the persons who were employing him, and laid the matter of the truth before them. Because God will use all that if we are faithful. The matter should be laid before the persons who are responsible; not before the union; that is not responsible; it is the employer that is responsible. And God will take account of that. So we bring our children up on those lines. They go to school and they watch and listen. Their parents tell them, ‘Do not listen to what they are talking about in the school that is contrary to Scripture. You listen to the truth!’ And their parents give them the truth at home, where they live, where they are brought up. That is the real position in the household, because christianity is in relation to the household.
BW Would the scripture in John’s epistle fit in, where it says, “For all that has been begotten of God gets the victory over the world; and this is the victory which has gotten the victory over the world, our faith” (1 John 5:4)?
JT “Our faith”, just so; “this is the victory which has gotten the victory ... our faith”. Victory lies in the faith that we have, it is “our faith”, mark you; not simply ‘faith’, but “our faith”, that is, believers’ faith. As I was saying, it is what is seen in the households of the saints; Acts 16 therefore is one of the leading chapters in that book. Lydia is there and it is a question of all that entered into the moment — how the truth worked out in Europe, as I might say. It was a question of what was in Europe.
ABP Would there be a practical working out of that in the word the jailor received, “Thou shalt be saved, thou and thy house”? That would be light from God upon which he would act in faith.
JT It was himself first, “thou and thy house”; “thou shalt be saved, thou and thy house”. The ‘thou’ is the leading word there; it is the individual himself and then his family.
ABP It may be possible for some years to intervene before the house is actually brought in under that statement, but faith would hold to it tenaciously.
JT That is right. And then it says, “He laid the table for them”, the table came into it; that is to say it is a household matter where there is bounty, where there is liberality, where there is hospitality; “he laid the table for them”.
ANW And the whole household rejoiced; it is an adverb there meaning they rejoiced householdly.
LLP Would you say that if this question of faith is genuine, it reaches out to the house itself? Lydia devoted her house to the service of Paul.
JT Just so; she says, “If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house”, and they did it. And later when they were leaving Philippi they came to Lydia again. It says that Paul came to Lydia, to her; not to her house but to her.
DMacd It says in Hebrews 11 that “Moses ... was hid three months by his parents” — ‘hid’. Are we to hide our children? I was just thinking that perhaps we may bring our children up too much for this world instead of hiding them.
JT Quite so. There are too many professional men, doctors and others, among us. Pardon me for referring to them, but in training the children never mind the profession, never mind the distinction, never mind the title; just train them to be able to rightly earn their living and to be christians, to be real christians.
DMacd In connection with that, it says of Peter and John [p. 51] that they were unlettered and uninstructed men.
JT That is good, unlettered and uninstructed; but they were doing the work nevertheless, the power was there.
FJF In connection with what you were speaking of yesterday, anticipation, the power to anticipate, is that not always on the ground of faith, that through faith we can anticipate what is really future? By the Spirit’s power, of course.
JT Well, quite; of course, faith is cumulative, leading on to great results; really we are coming on to the millennium. But in the meantime we are in the assembly time, and it is a matter of finding out what is current and who belongs to the assembly, and to get the features of the assembly; that is the thing that enters into Matthew, because Matthew is the great assembly gospel.
CHH Is there any distinction between “the faith” and what may be individual? I was thinking of Jude 3, “contend earnestly for the faith”, and then again there were those who denied “the faith”.
JT That is so; and then there is “our faith” as well.
FHL The word to Timothy is “holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience” (1 Timothy 3:9). That would be a much broader thought, would it?
JT Just so; that is an added thought.
TNW The last clause of Romans 14 is, “whatever is not of faith is sin”. Is that not a very broad statement?
JT A very broad statement, showing that we are shut up to faith in everything; it is “God’s dispensation, which is in faith” (1 Timothy 1:4). We are shut up to that. It is an immense thing to have before us all the time, and for our children especially, because they have to go to school and into all that sort of thing; it is an immense thing to save them from the influence of infidelity in the schools. They carry [p. 52] faith into the schools and know how to behave themselves as having faith and belonging to households who are “in faith”, because the households are involved in that.
LLP Scripture says that faith is the gift of God; but what you have mainly before you now is that we are responsible, man is responsible, the onus is on men as to having faith?
ANW When the Lord puts it this way, “According to your faith”, He would certainly seem to stimulate faith.
JT The onus is on the person who is getting the benefit, and the Lord is the One through whom the benefit has come.
ABP You have been referring to the young people, and I feel it is a very important subject. Should not our young people, as having some aim in life before them, be concerned that they have a word from God about it, so that what they propose can be either taken on or turned aside in faith, whichever is His mind? I feel that we sometimes make the thought of faith a very general idea, but does it not enter into the detail of our lives with a distinct word from God?
JT A distinct word from God; I am just wondering about the full bearing of that as you are dealing with it.
ABP Well, Abram said, “How shall I know?” after God had spoken to him; and then God put him through the experience in Genesis 15, which seems to suggest the inward character of the word of God in us; that it is not merely — and I say that guardedly — not merely a generalised idea of faith, but there is some word to which we can pin our faith which has a direct bearing upon us individually.
JT Abram said to Jehovah, “How shall I know ... ?” and then God prescribed to him what [p. 53] he was to do, the different creatures that he was to provide, and that I think is a thing not to be omitted. If you will enlarge on that perhaps you will help us. He prescribes to Abram what he is to do. He said, “How shall I know ... ?”, and God says, I will tell you, and He tells him certain things to do, that he is to provide certain creatures in a certain sacrificial sense, and he did it. Genesis 15 is a very significant chapter, and it bears on all that we are talking about.
ABP There were female and male animals and it seems to me that the idea of what is subjectively wrought out in us has prominence there; and the fact that the lamp passed between those pieces seems to suggest the inward character of the word in our souls. I wondered if it did not link with Hebrews 4 where we are told that the word of God divides between the thoughts and the intents of the heart, and between soul and spirit, and between joints and marrow? It is not just a generalising of detail but things that have a direct bearing upon us. God’s word is said to be a light to our path, but then it is also a lamp to our feet, as though we can have a word for each step. Would that be right?
JT Quite so.
Ques Faith is in a Person, is it not? Is not our faith in a Person, in God?
JT It is in a Person, but faith is to be held by itself too. It is sometimes said to be “our faith”, and then “faith”, and then “the faith”. So it depends upon what you are dealing with and what word you use.
LW Paul used the expression, “the ... spirit of faith”, in 2 Corinthians 4:13.
JT Just so, a very good expression too.
CHH As to these two men in Matthew 9 declaring the matter after they had been told to keep [p. 54] it quiet, would the proper course have been according to James to show forth their faith by their works?
JT Just so, that they were believers, because that was the point. “Do ye believe that I am able?” the Lord had said. They were to show that they were believers in the Lord’s ability; that was the idea; that is the foundation of christianity.
CHH Is not that the course for us as we have the revelation of God in Christ, that we are to walk in it? As John says, “walking in the truth” (3 John 4), that the testimony is to be in that rather than in what we say.
Rem In chapter 8 the Lord challenges the disciples: He says, “Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith?” in connection with the storm. It says, “Behold, the water became very agitated on the sea, so that the ship was covered by the waves; but he slept. And the disciples came and awoke him, saying, Lord save: we perish. And he says to them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith?”
JT So that it is a question of having faith, even if it is only a little; it would be effective for salvation. But we have the idea of great faith too: the Lord says, “Not even in Israel have I found so great faith” (Matthew 8:10). There is the idea of great faith and little faith, but whether it be the one or the other, the element is there; it is the real gold in the element, that is, faith.
CHH You were suggesting that Matthew is leading up progressively. Is what you are saying now leading on to the appointment of these twelve, giving them power?
JT Just so; the time has come for that now in chapter 10. But chapter 9 is so important as to faith; that is why we stayed there. But we can now readily go on in simplicity and liberty to the idea of the apostles’ service, of the appointment of the apostles by the Lord Himself in [p. 55] Matthew 10.
CHH I was thinking of the great necessity for the moral background that is seen in Matthew if we are to be commissioned for service.
JT To be commissioned. Which of any one of us has a commission at all? And if we have, where is the evidence of it? That is what I would say in addition to what you have said, that if any one of us has been commissioned there must be some evidence of it, some fruit from it. And where is it? We have already alluded to the number amongst us who are old; you are amongst them and I am, and several others amongst us. Well, where is the fruit of it? I am not saying that I have not got any or that you have not; nor am I saying that it is not in evidence around us; it is in evidence right in this room. But it is a question of making it individual and practical so that it can be spoken of as real christianity.
Ques It says in Romans 12:6 that “having different gifts, according to the grace which has been given to us, whether it be prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith”. I was wondering if there is not a link in that way between chapters 9 and 10 of Matthew, that these men were to go out and minister according to the proportion of faith?
JT That is so. And then finally we come to Paul. We have to wait for him before we see the full fruit of the characteristic labour of all the apostles, the characteristic labour.
CFE Is it not remarkable that the Lord brings their faith down to a grain of mustard seed?
JT Very good, a grain of mustard seed; only a grain, a small item, but it is faith nevertheless; the real gold is there, that is the point.
RWS Is unbelief a mountain which is removed by a grain of faith like a grain of mustard seed? Following the remark as to faith as a grain of mustard seed, the unit of measurement of unbelief seems to [p. 56] be mountains, and of faith grains; but the grain of faith removes the mountain of unbelief.
JT Yes, very wonderful I think. It comes home to one’s soul at this very minute, the thing that we are talking about. How real christianity is! We are in the centre of this great country here in Washington, but how real christianity is over against all this, the few that have real christianity! And that is the testimony of God in these moments, these last days.
CHH Is the order important as to the measures of faith? For instance it says, “first ... Peter”; that has to be recognised as to those who are first.
JT Now we shall have to come on to the end of chapter 10 to see the real values that are in mind in all this that we are talking about. We shall just again read verses 40 and 41: “He that receives you receives me, and he that receives me receives him that sent me. He that receives a prophet in the name of a prophet, shall receive a prophet’s reward; and he that receives a righteous man in the name of a righteous man, shall receive a righteous man’s reward. And whosoever shall give to drink to one of these little ones a cup of cold water only, in the name of a disciple”, notice this, “verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward”. Now that is what we are going to close with in this reading; only we shall have to go back again to the names of the apostles before we come to these two verses. Now what about this matter of results, with those of us who are older here?
CHH Well, some of us have to be very humble about it.
JT Quite so, but there is something here, you know; let not the brethren think there is nothing, because there is something here in the way of results, and from the elder brethren too. And it is for each of us just to look into these matters and be real [p. 57] about things, because we are dealing with real christianity. We are dealing with Matthew and with the gospel and with the assembly; but we are dealing with christianity, that is what I am endeavouring to press.
LW In naming the disciples and calling them apostles, is the Lord looking forward to setting up the assembly, the foundations of the assembly? That is with all except Judas.
JT Let us look at it: “Now the names of the twelve apostles are these”: This is very formal. We should read it again, from the first verse.
“And having called to him his twelve disciples, he gave them power over unclean spirits, so that they should cast them out, and heal every disease and every bodily weakness. Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who was called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the tax-gatherer; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, who was surnamed Thaddaeus; Simon the Cananaean, and Judas the Iscariote, who also delivered him up”.
Now there they are, before the universe as we might say, these twelve men, and what results there are! So that is our subject just for the moment and then we shall go on to the idea of relative values in the prophet and the righteous man before we finish.
FHL Yesterday you were referring in chapter 5 to their coming to Him, and you were looking ahead to His calling them to Him here. It is a change of position in that way, is it not? He “called to him his twelve disciples”.
JT And then “he gave them power over unclean spirits, so that they should cast them out, and heal every disease and every bodily weakness”. Now, I would say that that verse is to be noted, because there is a great deal of sickness amongst the [p. 58] brethren, a great deal of sickness. And we thank God, so far as we are concerned in New York, that a great many healings have happened. But some are not quite healed yet, and therefore the question now is whether we can take up the word in James as to the healing of the sick, whether they can be healed. The prayer of faith, we are told, heals the sick; it heals.
RWS In James 5:15 it says, “The prayer of faith shall heal the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up”.
JT I thought that was a very important matter in these readings, not to forget the idea of the healing of the sick by the prayer of faith; not simply by the persons but by their faith, the prayer of faith.
Ques It says in James that the sick man is to call the elders, who will pray over him and anoint him with oil. How would that work out today?
JT Well, first of all, where are your elders? That was a question that used to be asked years ago by Mr. Stoney. Where are your elders? But it did not imply that there were none, it did not imply that. It is just a challenge as to whether there are any elders amongst us, whether it be in Washington or New York or London. Where are the elders? Then the next thing is, if they are here there must be some power with them.
FJF It says “the elders of the assembly”, not of the synagogue. James had been speaking a good deal of the synagogue. Now he says, “Let him call to him the elders of the assembly”. I suppose they would have the power.
JT There used to be a dear brother in this country, Mr. Joseph Pellatt, and he was speaking of recovery through medicine. He quoted several things that were used for healing people, but he said, ‘As far as I am concerned I prefer the old paths and I am a believer in James 5’ That is to say, it is a [p. 59] question of where the Holy Spirit is operating in the sense of healing. The dear brethren need healing spiritually and physically and the point is that James 5 is intended to give us that; it is the vehicle of faith for the healing of the sick.
ANW That would search us. Later the disciples had to come to the Lord and say as to an unclean spirit, “Why were not we able to cast him out? And he says to them, Because of your unbelief” (Matthew 17:19,20). A very searching matter!
CHH You would recognise in healing in addition to James 5 the mercies of God in the way of creatures? For instance, you get Hezekiah who had to apply a plaster of figs; and Timothy was to take a little wine. I mean it would be in addition to faith.
JT Well, enlarge on that; the real thing is the enlargement that we are able to give to a matter, spreading it out for us; so that we have “opening” and “laying down”; we are to open up a thing from the Scriptures and then lay it down authoritatively. That is what you get in the book of Acts.
CHH I was only thinking of what we speak of as the creatures of God about which we can freely address God, and count them as God’s mercies; and also that we have doctors to help us.
JT Yes, quite so.
WWM Would you say that in regard of the sick, there is much in John’s writing to Gaius where he says, “I desire that ... thou shouldest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospers” (3 John 2)? So that soul prosperity is a great thing in regard of our health. Do you think that?
JT It is indeed. There is so much illness, and so much hindrance because of illness, physical illness, that God is speaking to us. But as I was saying a moment ago, as far as New York is concerned we are greatly encouraged in the number of [p. 60] healings.
LW You have not expressed all you have in mind about the twelve apostles.
JT Not yet. We hope to say a little more. There are twelve of them and we do not need to say very much about the last one; he was a terrible man.
GGB Might I just enquire a word more about the healing? In James the one who was sick called the elders to him. Now the healing that you speak of in New York — does that always apply in that way?
JT Pretty much, I am thankful to say. We have had remarkable cases of it and we are very much encouraged about that.
GGB Can anyone be healed unless he himself calls the elders?
JT “Let him call to him the elders”. It taxes you as to whether you know the brethren, the elders “Let him call to him the elders of the assembly, and let them pray over him ... and the prayer of faith shall heal the sick”. That is a promise.
GGB I mean there must be movement on the part of the one who is sick?
JT I think so, that is the idea of it, because that is what it says: “Is any sick among you? let him call to him the elders of the assembly”, as much as to say James recognised that there are still elders of the assembly.
TNW Do you think that it entails transparency? Because it leads on to the confession of sins and the forgiveness of them.
JT Quite so, “and if he be one who has committed sins, it shall be forgiven him”. It is a time for forgiveness as well as healing, because God is ready to forgive us. “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9).
JHT Does the anointing with oil have to be taken literally or does it just suggest the [p. 61] Spirit?
JT I think we must take it literally; I would be ashamed to say it was not literal. I would be ashamed to say in the face of christianity that it was not literal. It must be literal. Even if it is not seen now in any specific way, yet it really exists literally.
LLP Would you say that if one had faith and was fallen sick and there chanced to be a brother in the locality who was a medical man, faith would make me send for him in the capacity of an elder rather than of a doctor?
JT If he is a beloved one, such as Luke the beloved physician, I would be glad to travel with him and to count on him, to ask him to do things. Luke was not simply a good physician but a beloved one.
LLP Some of us had that experience recently. A brother was sick and sent for a brother in the capacity of a medical doctor; and afterwards it came to him that he should have sent for him as an elder.
JT Well, maybe there is truth in that.
ANW Luke was evidently at Troas but the recoverer of Eutychus was Paul.
JT Just so, the recoverer of Eutychus was Paul.
LLP One is wholeheartedly sympathetic with what you are presenting; I think we ought to draw on it.
WWM In connection with your speaking to the young people here this morning, I have been thinking of a scripture in Hebrews 13:7, “Remember your leaders who have spoken to you the word of God; and considering the issue of their conversation, imitate their faith”. That is to be carried out today, is it not?
JT “Imitate their faith”, very good.