READINGS IN MATTHEW'S GOSPEL (7)
READINGS IN MATTHEW’S GOSPEL (7)
JT The brethren will be aware of the occasion we had in Edinburgh, when we started the gospel of Matthew. The proposal, at that time, was that we should be occupied with the first half of the gospel in the meetings in Edinburgh, and that the second half (especially in view of the assembly) should occupy us at these meetings in London. Chapter 13 is in mind now because it is a parabolic chapter and treats of things that, we might say, are judicial. Christendom is on the way to apostasy, not yet openly, but on the way to it, and the thought is that these parables will enable us to deal with what is judicial, as applying to the whole position of Christendom. Although many who are not walking in the truth fully are Christians, and we do not disregard them, yet the principle of apostasy has set in. After we have considered this chapter, the thought is to take up the truth of the assembly, not the judicial side of it, but the idea of the whole assembly as the vessel of the Spirit of God here on earth.
It will be noticed that this chapter is only partially judicial, the parables in the latter half of it being spoken in truth directly. There are seven of them altogether, and the intent is clearly to give a complete outlook first of all as to this judicial aspect, and then the thought of the assembly comes in, in the treasure and the pearl, in order to complete the idea of parabolic ministry. These are features of the assembly, but they come out more fully in the direct teaching after this chapter. The chapter begins, as the brethren will notice, with the Lord leaving the house and sitting down by the sea. That is to say, it is a new setting of the truth. It implies that [p. 199] the Lord has taken up a new setting, and He is to be listened to on those lines, and the idea of a sower is that something is to be produced by the sowing. Then the quotation from the prophets only confirms or clarifies the judicial idea. It is seen beginning with verse 13: “For this cause I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear nor understand; and in them is filled up the prophecy of Esaias, which says, Hearing ye shall hear and shall not understand, and beholding ye shall behold and not see; for the heart of this people has grown fat, and they have heard heavily with their ears, and they have closed their eyes as asleep, lest they should see with the eyes, and hear with the ears, and understand with the heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them”. No doubt all of us will have some understanding of the significance of these prophetic utterances; that is to say, they are judicial, and the judicial bearing applies to Christendom. It would be impossible that we should ever reach conclusion in the history of Christendom unless there were some judicial action leading up to entire judgment, as we have it in the book of Revelation. Christendom cannot go on for ever; we can easily see that. God must come in judicially, in relation to the whole system of Christendom, and that is the most solemn thing. The whole scene around us, called Christendom, is coming under judgment, and has already been dealt with judicially, hence the Spirit of God is not opening up the truth to Christendom as such in a clarified way at all. I think it would greatly help the brethren if they were to see the judicial action, as indicated in this chapter, and at the same time, be with God about it.
Ques Does Paul in Hebrews 6 have the same kind of thing in mind? He speaks about it being impossible to renew again to repentance, and then he says, “For ground which drinks the rain which comes often upon it, and produces useful herbs for those for whose sakes also it is tilled, partakes of blessing from God; but bringing forth thorns and briars, it is found worthless and nigh to a curse, whose end is to be burned. But we are persuaded concerning you, beloved, better things”, Hebrews 6: 7 - 9.
JT Well, that is the relief there, but it is not here; it is not in this chapter. The parabolic ministry of this chapter does not admit of relief; it is judgment; but Hebrews does, because Hebrews is uttered in Christianity. At the same time, the judgment is quite as severe as it is here. Perhaps you will help us about that further.
Rem I was only thinking that Paul had in mind that the matter was carried into our own time, into the Spirit’s day, and the impossibility to renew to repentance persons who refused it as in Christendom, as you were saying.
JT The apostasy is in mind, of course, but the relation of it in Hebrews is to the Jews, and, of course, in a certain sense this chapter has the same character. The Jews are more in mind in Hebrews, however, whereas Christendom is in mind in our chapter, because the Lord has taken up a new attitude in this verse. He has taken up a new attitude, going out by the sea and sitting in the ship and speaking to people on the land. It says, “the whole crowd stood on the shore”. It is a promiscuous company, but the Lord is speaking from the sea.
Rem If we are not with God in this judicial condemnation of one system, we shall not understand the blessedness of verse 16, “blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear”. That is another company altogether.
JT Yes, and then later in the chapter you have, in verse 36, “having dismissed the crowds”, that is to say, He now clears the air of the mere professors,
[p. 201] and speaks directly to the disciples. It is one thing to speak to the disciples and another thing to speak to the crowds. The crowds are in mind in the parabolic teaching; that is to say, in the judicial teaching; and they are just saying what they wish. It is most solemn the way things are current abroad amongst nominal Christians. They are just saying what they wish. Some of it is speaking, you might say, in a most heartless way about the truth, denying even the holy Person of the Lord Jesus.
Ques Is this quotation from Isaiah showing an advance on Isaiah himself, suggesting that the apostasy has ripened in the Lord’s mind. Isaiah 6: 10 says, “Make the heart of this people fat” and in our chapter the Lord says, “the heart of this people has grown fat”. Is there the ripening of the apostasy in the Lord’s mind here?
JT Ripening — just so. That is to say, the Lord is ceasing to teach, as He had been teaching in the early part of the book, up to the end of chapter 12. He is changing His attitude in this chapter, because He goes out by the sea and sits in the ship and speaks to the crowds.
ECM Does Paul’s word, in the end of Acts, bear on what you have in mind? It says, “Having spoken one word”, and then it says, “Well spoke the Holy Spirit” and quotes from this very passage in Isaiah. Does the Spirit enter into this matter of what is judicial?
JT Very good, confirming what the Lord has been bringing before us in recent times. I think the passage we have been reading is repeated three times in the New Testament, showing that this judicial side was long in mind and is now ripening, as has just been said.
Rem The Lord does not say to the crowds, “Have ye understood all these things?” He speaks [p. 202] it to those who have been immediately under His instruction, and they say to Him, “Yea, Lord”.
JT Well, that is final. That is His final word to them, but verse 36 is the one that fits properly. “Then, having dismissed the crowds, he went into the house”; notice He entered the house in contrast to the sea, “and his disciples came to him”. It says they came to Him, meaning they were moved. In chapter 5 the same thing happened; the Lord went up into the mountain and sat down, and the disciples came to Him. And so here, “His disciples came to him, saying, Expound to us the parable of the darnel of the field”. That is to say, it is the disciples now, He is willing to teach them, and ready to expound the parable to them.
PL Is it prophetically suggested in His going into the house that there would be a resumption of assembly relations in the very presence of the apostasy?
JT Quite so. It is to prepare really for the chapters we have in mind, dealing with the truth of the assembly, for the house suggests the assembly.
PHH The word ‘mysteries’ is used in connection with the disciples, “Because to you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of the heavens, but to them it is not given”.
JT That would confirm what we have recently spoken of as to mystery. For instance, the mystery of the kingdom comes in in the epistle to the Romans, and it opens up the New Testament, the epistles as well as the gospels.
PHH Would it mean that the parabolic ministry is able to be understood by the disciples?
JT And so the Lord assumes that. Its meaning has come out fully now, we might say, in the presence and power of the Spirit and the revival of the truth too, during the years that have passed since the revival. It is no longer mystery, although in a [p. 203] certain sense it may be, but it is not parabolic. What we have in the Collected Writings, for instance, and the current ministry, is not parabolic; it is open — a clarified setting out of the truth, and a clarified presentation of the truth should be the aim of everyone who ministers. “Ye shall know the truth”, the Lord says, “and the truth shall set you free”.
Rem So that Paul says, “Let a man so account of us as servants of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God”, 1 Corinthians 4: 1. What he had was made available to the saints.
JT Just so. It was made available, not that we should begin to have Sunday Schools, I hope we never will, because the truth ought to be before the young people in the essence of it as well as in the fulness of it. The truth ought to be presented to the young people.
FCH Is this lack of understanding that is emphasized in the chapter the result now of departing from Paul’s ministry? Paul could say in writing to Timothy, “Think of what I say, for the Lord will give thee understanding in all things”. Has not the departure from Paul’s ministry brought about this great lack of understanding?
JT Quite so, but then we should not limit clear presentation of the truth to Paul, because Peter set it out clearly too, and all the apostles set it out clearly. They were all men qualified to minister the truth. Peter stood up with the eleven, in setting out the gospel at first, it says in Acts 2.
PL Does not Peter himself say, “If any one speak - as oracles of God”, 1 Peter 4: 11?
JT Quite so, and the Holy Spirit is here to help us to do that. We need not be at any loss, because the Holy Spirit is here purposely to do that. He is here this very day, to open up the truth to us.
[p. 204] It is not now presented in parables but by the Spirit of God, according to the Lord’s words as to the Spirit, “He shall guide you into all the truth”.
PHH Would you think that the conversation with Paul in Acts 20 was on this line of opening up the truth in a positive way? It speaks first of all of a long discourse, and then the second word used is, “having long spoken” or conversed, or communed. Would that be the way that the truth largely is opened up today?
JT I think so, but do not forget the Lord’s supper. The whole teaching of Christianity is bound up with the Lord’s supper, and hence the continuation of it on the first day of the week. That is found in the chapter you quote, is it not?
PHH Yes. It says, “And having gone up” (that is, with Eutychus) “and having broken the bread, and eaten, and having long spoken until daybreak”. You mean to say that the opening up of the truth is largely based on the Lord’s supper?
JT I think so, and hence the Lord has made it very clear to us that the Lord’s supper is the beginning of all ministry, and it is the beginning of the service of God. But then another thing has to be said about Acts 20, and that is, there was evidently a defect in the assembly in Troas. Why should he be so long? Where the Spirit of God is free, we do not have any great lengthy speech at the Lord’s supper. We are to be brief. The inference thus is that there was something wrong at that time at Troas, because Paul had to say so much. I do not think any brother would be listened to much today, if he spoke to us as long as Paul did at the Lord’s supper, but it shows the order of things and how the Spirit of God changes His attitude at certain times. I have no doubt the great prolongation of the speaking by Paul points to something in relation to the Reformation,
[p. 205] and then the recovery of the truth in clarity in the revival one hundred and twenty years ago.
Ques The greatest corruptions of Christendom centre in the Lord’s supper. Would that bear on what you are saying as to the apostasy?
JT Very good. It is centred in Rome. One does not like to speak too much on that point, because I think Rome is changing her attitude. At the same time, it remains the same essentially. It is the apostasy. Jezebel remains Jezebel, and we do well to keep that in mind. Thyatira was the beginning of the great corrupt teaching in Christendom, and it stays. Then we have other such things as Christian Science, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and others, including Unitarianism, which is a terrible thing, the incarnation and the truth of the Person of Christ being denied. All these things have come in, and, of course, the devil has certain advantage in it, but the Spirit of God has His own advantage and retains it. Hence we have the Collected Writings and we have other ministry since, and God is still giving fresh ministry, so as to keep the truth as a whole before us; and we must always keep that in mind, that it is the truth as a whole. So it is that in these three-day meetings the Spirit of God has His own rights and His own advantages and He is keeping them before us.
Ques Is that why dispensationally the long discourse has been needed, to disentangle the Supper from what is corrupt?
JT Quite so. I think the Collected Writings (taking the liberty of referring to Mr. Darby) are immensely helpful and we should all look into them carefully. At the same time there is later ministry too that God is using, and I am sure the Lord will continue to use it right up to the very moment of His coming; so that the ministry will be kept fresh and clarified.
[p. 206] Ques Is it all in view of the personnel of the assembly being intelligent? Paul says, “I speak as to intelligent persons; do ye judge what I say”.
JT And so here, the Lord says, “Have ye understood all these things?”. So we should be bent on understanding, and especially the sisters, because they are apt to assume that the brothers know everything and should know everything, whereas the sisters ought to know the truth too. There were prophetesses at the beginning, and there should be something of that kind today, if we are to have the truth clarified amongst sisters.
PL “The elder to the elect lady and her children, whom I love in truth”, 2 John 1.
JT And Phoebe too, at Rome.
FW In regard to what is judicial, why are the assemblies brought forward first in Revelation before the Lord deals judicially with other matters?
JT Well, the first thing in the book of Revelation is what the Lord Himself says. We have His own words, and they are given verbatim, but the Lord Himself, in what He says, directs that “He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies”. So that it is not simply what the Lord Himself says to the assemblies, but what the Spirit says to the assemblies.
AJG Peter says, “The time of having the judgment begin from the house of God is come”, 1 Peter 4: 17.
JT Just so. The house of God; that is what we get here. He dismissed the crowds and went into the house; so that Peter, in principle, refers to that — the time of His being in the house.
Ques Why is it that the Lord not only expounds the parables that have been said in the presence of the crowds, but He adds three more in the house?
JT It is for the sake of clarification. It is a complete setting out of the truth as over against the [p. 207] first part of the chapter. They are to be clear, and two of the later parables refer to the assembly; as, for instance, verse 44, “The kingdom of the heavens is like a treasure hid in the field, which a man having found has hid”, and then again, in verse 45, “The kingdom of the heavens is like a merchant seeking beautiful pearls; and having found one pearl of great value ...” That is to say, these two parables directly refer to the assembly, but we shall have to wait for the later part of the book to get the truth of the assembly. It is in mind in these meetings to get the full thought of the assembly as over against the individual side in the early chapters of the book of Matthew.
PHH Does the Lord have greater liberty in the house, to bring out what is next to His heart?
JT One can understand that. In our own case, each one who is ministering can sec how we become clear as in the presence of spiritual and interested persons. You have found that, I am sure?
PHH Yes, indeed. Does not the parable of the darnel mean that there is a mixed state of things right on to the end, publicly, but there is no mixture in connection with the treasure or the pearl. Is that what we enjoy as understanding the Lord’s own thoughts?
JT I think at a time like this, these meetings are intended for clarity, and the Spirit of God has liberty to use any one of us, or all of us if necessary, to open up the truth. It is not a time of hiding the truth but of opening it up.
Ques Do you regard the Lord’s action in dismissing the crowd as judicial?
JT The bearing of it is judicial toward the crowd, not the disciples, for they are distinguished. Typically from Rome downward it is a time of hiding things; that is to say, God is dealing judicially with Christendom.
AJG So that “having dismissed the crowds, he went into the house”. That would leave it open for all who sought the truth to seek Him there, would it not? “His disciples”, it says, “came to him”.
JT Very good. The same thing is said in chapter 5. The Lord went up into the mountain, and sat down, and His disciples came to Him, and He opened His mouth, it says, and spoke what we call the Beatitudes — precious truth. There are nine blessednesses referred to in that chapter, and it is similar here in the opening up of the parables. It was a time of expounding things, and I believe the Collected Writings — as I already ventured to say — are a great expounding of things. The Spirit of God has seized the opportunity and has caused it through the great servant that the Lord raised up to expound things, and now we are getting the benefit of it.
Ques If we listen to the instructions in the house, would all of us become good householders with treasure which we are able to bring out?
JT Just so; we get the idea in this chapter of being like householders, that is, persons who have houses, but houses in a spiritual sense, not just for the bringing up of children and the like, but houses in a spiritual sense.
Now, the treasure is said to be “hid in the field, which a man having found has hid, and for the joy of it” — notice the joy of it — “goes and sells all whatever he has, and buys that field”. That is to say, the man is a type of the Lord, of course. “Again, the kingdom of the heavens is like a merchant seeking beautiful pearls” — beautiful pearls — “and having found one pearl of great value, he went and sold all whatever he had and bought it”. So that the buyer here had means, and we can only [p. 209] attribute that to the Lord Jesus and the means He has of buying things.
AJG The mustard tree is one of the parables that deal with the public position. Is the character of being hidden, which is impressed upon the treasure, the divine answer to the pretentiousness which the mustard tree suggests?
JT I think it is like Colossians. “Your life is hid with the Christ in God”. That is the height of the epistle.
Ques Is the pearl in contrast with the leaven, the pearl suggesting what is incorruptible in itself and cannot be added to? I was thinking of the remark that the treasure being hidden was in contrast to the pretension suggested in the mustard tree, and I wondered whether the intrinsic value of the pearl in the next section was in contrast to the inflated idea through the leaven.
JT Yes, it is more than the idea of treasure. It says he “found one pearl” — only one. It is a unit, but it is a precious unit; it is of great value, and who can tell the value? No one can tell the value. The Lord Himself is the possessor of it, as it says. “He went and sold all whatever he had and bought it”. The Lord alone knows the value of the pearl.
PHH Would not its connection with the assembly be seen in the Revelation where the gates are spoken of in connection with the pearl? In Revelation 21, where the city, the assembly, is being spoken of, it says, for instance (verse 21), “And the twelve gates, twelve pearls; each one of the gates, respectively, was of one pearl”. Has the pearl therefore distinctly an assembly reference?
JT I think so, but this parable here is strictly confined to one pearl. In the book of Revelation you would therefore have to distinguish what is said [p. 210] because the word twelve comes in, in chapter 21, which is an administrative word.
PHH You mean that this expression “one pearl” is an expression of refinement all on its own?
JT Just so. ‘Refinement’ is excellent because it is a word that we ought to pay attention to all the way through. We had the idea of refinement in Edinburgh, but this is refinement par excellence, I would say.
PL Does it fit in to Ephesians 5, “even as the Christ also loved the assembly, and has delivered himself up for it”?
JT Just so — “also loved the assembly”, and again we have the word also in Matthew 16, “I also, I say unto thee that thou art Peter, and on this rock I will build my assembly”. There again you have the full thought in the Lord’s reference to the assembly.
EAL The pearl has a peculiar entity as a jewel; it is at its best when worn on a person.
JT Very good, so that the bride in the book of Revelation has that distinction. “The marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife has made herself ready” — made herself ready. She has done it herself.
Ques What is implied in the expression “seeking beautiful pearls”? It is plural.
JT Would not the word ‘beautiful’ refer to the eyes? We get certain expressions used typically by the Lord covering all this, in the book of the Song of Songs. The merchantman found one pearl. It was of great price, and it says, “He went and sold all whatever he had and bought it”. It is one thing, that is to say, the assembly.
Ques Does it suggest what is distinctive to the assembly? Although there may be other families in mind eventually, what is distinctive to the assembly is now before [p. 211] us.
JT Quite so. It is the greatest family in the whole universe. Even the angels are not as great as the assembly.
PHH The Lord says in John 14, “there are many abodes ... I go to prepare you a place”. Would that be in line with the special place of the assembly?
JT Just so — “prepare you” — and then again, He says, “if I go and shall prepare you a place, I am coming again and shall receive you to myself”, showing that His affections are bound up with the assembly.
JMcK Would the fact that He sold all that He had give a touch of finality to the assembly? It says in verse 46, “having found one pearl of great value, he went and sold all whatever he had”. That would imply that the assembly is a final thought with the merchantman.
JT Just so. It is a final thought.
AJG Does the fact that it is one pearl, with beauty attaching to it, show the importance of the thought of unity among the saints in love, and then unified affection toward Christ?
JT Just so. I think the book of the Song of Songs ought to be well studied, in view of all this, and especially in view of this particular chapter. We ought to consider what Christ has in that book, in type.
WC In chapter 6 it says, “She is the only one of her mother, she is the choice one of her that bore her” (verse 9).
JT That is right.
AB And again in chapter 4, it says, “Thou art all fair, my love; and there is no spot in thee” (verse 7).
Rem The word ‘pearl’, I think, was first used by the Lord. There is no record, I believe, of the word in the Old Testament. The word rendered “pearls” in Job 28: 18 in the Authorised Version is a different word.
[p. 212] JT I would accept that fully.
Ques Does the fact that the Lord is referred to as a merchant, in connection with the pearl, indicate that He, and He alone, values the assembly at its true value?
JT Just so. The word ‘merchant’ would mean one who knows what the value is. Perhaps that is something that we are very defective in, the true and full values of what the Scriptures present to us.
Ques So that alongside of the matter of what is judicial, there is also this matter of discernment. Are both those qualities to be formed in the saints?
JT You are referring to values? Very good.
EuR Do we get that in connection with the judgment of the false system in Revelation 18? In verse 8 we have “Strong is the Lord God who has judged her”, and then in verse 20, “Rejoice over her, heaven, and ye saints and apostles and prophets; for God has judged your judgment upon her”. Does that involve the gain of this teaching in that judgment has been maintained among the saints?
JT Just so. I would think that these meetings that we are having so often, thank God, would help us in arriving at true values, and then arriving at true judgments as to the evil that has to be judged; and so the book of Revelation includes both of these thoughts.
EuR I thought we had been helped as to that. The judgment that will be publicly executed has been maintained among the saints who are getting the gain of the recovery, and that, I suppose, dates back from the commencement till now.
JT So that the book of Revelation therefore reaches conclusions, both for good and for evil. Evil is at its full height as described there, but then good too is described at its true level.
[p. 213] Ques Is that why the Lord adds the parable of the seine? Having spoken of the treasure and the pearl, which are of positive value, and not allowing of anything extraneous, He adds something else, saying, “Again, the kingdom of the heavens is like a seine which has been cast into the sea, and which has gathered together of every kind, which, when it has been filled, having drawn up on the shore and sat down, they gathered the good into vessels and cast the worthless out”. We may have our attention called to the greatness of the treasure and the beauty of the pearl, yet as things proceed there is really the need for sorting things out, in the understanding that what is of value is to be preserved and what is worthless is to be cast out.
JT I would say, getting down to practical matters, our care of the saints, and of the Lord’s interests generally, calls largely for, discerning what is good and refusing what is bad; and it should go on more and more until the end, because the Lord is seeking to give us clearer discernment as to what is good and what is bad.
FPS The good figs in Jeremiah were very good, and the bad figs were very bad.
JT Just so; that is a similar word. But this can be easily brought down to ourselves, that in our meetings to care for divine interests, whether in small meetings or in large, we should apply ourselves more strenuously to this matter of spiritual discrimination, and arrive at a united judgment.
Ques Does that come in in Acts 15? Is there a sorting out there, and the result is, “Then it seemed good to the apostles and to the elders, with the whole assembly”.
JT Well, just so. It is, you might say, the only general assembly in the New Testament. The Roman Catholics have many general assemblies, but the only one in Scripture is in Acts 15, and [p. 214] Peter and James are the leaders in pronouncing the judgment, and the whole assembly is with them. I think our care meetings which are, of course, local and not general, and their findings and judgments, might be well based on Acts 15.
JP So that Job speaks about abundantly declaring the matter as it is (Job 26: 3).
JT Well, just so, “as it is”. When we are talking about the care meetings, we have in mind that the brethren have the Spirit of God, and thus their final judgment is unified, it is, in principle, the assembly itself.
PL Would the word “on the shore and sat down” suggest restful investigation and enquiry in dignity?
JT Just so. The Lord did the same thing in chapter 5 of this book. He sat down and the disciples came to Him, so that sitting down would indicate deliberation. We should take time to do things, not rush them through but take time to do them.
PHH Would the treasure and the pearl preceding, help to give us a sense of value and discernment, so that this sitting down and gathering in the good and refusing the evil would have more meaning to us?
JT I think they would. Because the idea of a merchant is that of a discriminative person. He is discriminating; he knows values and takes time to value things. He does not act in a hurry. He takes time.
JMcK Would the woman of worth indicate moral correspondence to Christ? She is said to be like the merchants’ ships. The idea of the merchant comes much into her activities.
JT Solomon said, “one man ... have I found, but a woman ... have I not found”, Ecclesiastes 7: 28. That is what Solomon said. What he says in that last chapter of Proverbs is a matter of discernment,
[p. 215] for Solomon had a true judgment. That is what I believe is meant in that case, in the book of Proverbs, the woman is a woman of worth. It is an abstract thought. Solomon does not produce her; he just describes her and tells us what she is like, but it must be the assembly in anticipation. Solomon lighted on the thought of the assembly. So she is a woman of worth and there is no one like her, and she has children. I have no doubt at all that the thought is that Solomon lights on the idea of the assembly without saying so.
JTJr And he had confidence in her. He can trust her.
JT Just so. Her husband can trust her. That is just it.
AB Would the thought of worth or virtue be the ability to choose the good and refuse the evil?
JT Just so. I suppose we ought not to pass over lightly that proverb of Solomon as to the value of the woman. I believe God has helped the brethren, in recent times, to place a better value on the sisters than they had placed on them, and the time has come for them to show that they are worthy of it. The question is, “Who can find a woman of worth?”. Well, why should not all the sisters think of that. “Who can find a woman of worth?” Because it all points to the coming of the Lord for the assembly, when “we shall all be changed”. The thought of the woman involves the assembly, it will merge in the idea of the assembly. We also have in mind that we are to be like the assembly, in chastity. Paul says, “I have espoused you unto one man, to present you a chaste virgin to Christ”, 2 Corinthians 11: 2.
PHH Is it remarkable that Solomon saying “A woman among all those have I not found” should be in Ecclesiastes — the meaning of Ecclesiastes being ‘the former of assemblies’?
JT [p. 216] It is. Solomon would have a good judgment about her. So it is that we have in the last chapter of Proverbs the former of assemblies finds what he is looking for, and describes it.
Ques The Lord says in Matthew 12, “Whosoever shall do the will of my Father who is in the heavens, he is my brother, and sister, and mother”. Does the Lord, in referring to the sister and mother, show what He would look for from sisters?
JT Quite so. He does not agree with certain who say that Mary is the mother of God and that she is immaculate. Mary, the Lord’s mother, failed very seriously, and that passage, in chapter 12 points to that. She stood without, asking Him to come out to see her, which was not respectful. And then again in John 2 she assumed that the Lord did not know things, whereas He did know things.
EuR Would this gathering the good into vessels involve the local companies of the saints?
JT Very likely. The principle of locality is in 1 Corinthians 1. It says in verse 2, “To the assembly of God which is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called saints, with all that in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ”. “All that in every place”. That is the local assembly.
EuR There are two gatherings; would the gathering together of every kind cover the whole of Christendom, and then in the midst of that condition there has to be this sorting out and the gathering of the good into vessels?
JT The Spirit of God is implied, or there is nothing. If the Spirit of God is gone there is nothing but apostasy, nothing but judgment.
AJG You mean that the good would be those who have the Spirit, and the worthless would be those that are rejected as not having the Spirit?
JT Just so. There is nothing at all if we have not the Spirit. We cannot assume that persons are [p. 217] born anew, we cannot make anything out of that, because there must be what goes on to completion or it is nothing.
FCH Would the woman of worth, as coming in at the end of the book of Proverbs, be regarded as one who is in the good of the instruction and discernment in the book of Proverbs? Is she the product of that?
JT Well, she is, although it is assuming she is there. It says: “Who can find”. It is an abstract idea; but still we can hardly say that she is there.
ECM Does this feature of discernment come in with Abigail in regard to her judgment of Nabal? She says, “For as his name is, so is he: Nabal is his name, and folly is with him”, 1 Samuel 25: 25.
JT Very good. She was a woman of worth.
ECM And then David speaks of her discernment, “Blessed be thy discernment, and blessed be thou”.
JT Quite so. She is one of the best types of the assembly I know of in the Old Testament.
AJG So that what is to mark the position publicly at the completion of the age, in the severance of the wicked from the just, is to take place in principle now in the assembly?
JT Just so. That is what I am thinking about. The assembly and the care in it is of great value, I believe, in the eyes of heaven, because of this discriminative power in the saints, discriminating the good from the bad.
Ques Is not that discriminating power more needed today, having in mind what you said earlier that Roman Catholicism has changed its character? May not other forms of evil change their character?
JT Quite so. I just mention that because I have noticed it incidentally, that it has changed its character. It is more sympathetic to Protestantism. The fact of the matter is that certain of the leaders [p. 218] of Catholicism assume that Protestant Christians belong to that assembly, as they call it, the Catholic Church. I do not know whether the brethren follow what I am saying, but it is a real fact, and there is a certain thing to be noticed in it.
HH Would not the effect of the conversation be seen in verse 52, “And he said to them, For this reason every scribe discipled to the kingdom of the heavens is like a man that is a householder who brings out of his treasure things new and old”. It is not ‘old and new’ but “new and old”. Is that the thought of adjustment?
JT Very good. I would say that.