COMMUNICATIONS FROM THE LORD
COMMUNICATIONS FROM THE LORD
JT This scripture is perhaps more familiar to us than most. It should be read in view of its being the introduction of extended communications from the Lord on the eve of His death, and it is introductory to the service of God which was on the Lord’s mind as He was about to die. His people should understand the desire of the Father, and enter into the service of God intelligently and in love to one another. One matter of importance in this chapter is the evident intent to lift the saints out of the ordinary religious settings and customs; so it has a peculiar application to this country because of the special observance of religious days and customs.
I think the Spirit made the allusion to the passover here to denote what is in view — what the Lord was going to say or do. We do not read, “When the hour was come” here, as in Luke 22:14; it reads, “Now before the feast of the passover”, without saying how long before. In chapter 12 it says, “Six days before”, and in Matthew 26 “after two days”. In Matthew and in the other synoptic gospels the feast of the passover has a place — the Lord was still recognising the old economy, but not so in John. There it says, “Now before the feast of the passover”; then the supper is mentioned in John 13:2, without naming what supper it was. Verse 2 which says in the Authorised Version “Supper being ended” should read “during supper”. What gave this supper such importance was that the Lord was partaking of it. No doubt it was the passover, but that is not the point; it was the supper He partook of with His own. The persons present were greater than what they partook of; this greatness was from [p. 176] Him. That is, I think, how matters stood in these last days. Would that be the thought?
CAC The important thing here would be the communications, would it not?
JT That is what I thought we might see. There are no more important communications than those in these chapters 13 to 17, leading up to the Lord’s prayer in the last of the chapters in which He says, “Father”. “These things Jesus spoke, and lifted up his eyes to heaven and said, Father”; in this He was thinking of us; He was thinking of His immediate disciples, but also of us at this very meeting today. The Lord prayed for all who should believe on Him through their word; that makes it living and applicable to ourselves. In that prayer the Lord speaks of love, the greatest love, the love of the Father for the Son. “That the love with which thou hast loved me may be in them and I in them” (chapter 17:26). That places the saints in a wonderful setting, qualified to have part in the heavenly things, because this realm of love is of the highest order. As the Father loves the Son, that love is in us, and the Son is in us. He is in us on our side, ministering to us that kind of love.
CAC In what sense is that love to be in us?
JT The love we shall enjoy in heaven is already in the assembly viewed as on heavenly ground. The covenant love in the Lord’s supper applies to us more as here in the wilderness; the Lord’s supper was instituted and eaten at Jerusalem, that is, where there is evil; the enemy’s power was there; whereas after the Lord had given the emblems to them and told them what the cup meant, the bringing in of the covenant seems to set them free. They sang a hymn in Jerusalem, and then they went to the mount of Olives. I think that synchronises with chapter 17 as the spot to which the Lord always resorted while in Jerusalem. In the day time He was in the temple teaching, at night He went to the mount of Olives.
[p. 177] Obviously that was His retreat, where He was with His Father; the love He enjoyed there would be the Father’s love. In chapter 17:26 He says, “I have made known to them thy name, and will make it known; that the love with which thou hast loved me may be in them and I in them”. They move to the mount of Olives; that is what they came to spiritually.
LM What is the import of “I in them”? After bringing before them such love as the Father’s love, it is to be in them. Is that the thought?
JT It is John’s way of supporting Hebrews 2:12, “In the midst of the assembly will I sing thy praises”. John supports that in this way. The Lord’s service to us is to make known the Father’s name. The Father’s love is in us; hence Christ is in us in the sense of having a place in our hearts. As having that love there He is in us; He is on our side, so He is free to move in the service of God. Is that your thought?
CAC That would be a very affectionate setting?
JT It seems to me that the understanding of this would practically help us as to assembly service as found in Ephesians. God has one great thought; we begin locally and end, in a spiritual sense, universally. That is, the assembly having that kind of love that the Father has for Christ, we are available to Him as He is in us, to conduct us in that service to His Father.
EJF Will that love go on when the dispensation is past?
JT That is manifest. We are possessed with love that belongs to the most exalted thought of love, the Father’s love to the Son.
LM Is it your thought that Christ being in us here in assembly character, that is the way in which the Father gets an answer?
JT The hymn they sang in Jerusalem is not said to have been sung by the Lord, it is not said that He [p. 178] even had part in it, though no doubt He did sing it. It would be in the light of the covenant; He said much to them, especially according to Matthew, about the covenant. But when they had sung a hymn they moved to the mount of Olives. In this movement He had not specially in view our side, the mount of Olives was His own place, it was the place to which He resorted.
Ques What is the service of God, and what is our position in regard to it?
JT That is what I thought we might come to in chapter 17. Chapter 13 is introductory; it is the service of Christ to relieve us of all that might hinder us taking that place. It is the last use of the water of purification in this gospel; we have it in chapters 2, 3 and 9. Chapter 9 is crucial; the washing takes us off the ground even of Christ’s position as here in flesh. He was Son of God here, of course, but in resurrection He was marked off as Son of God. He laid down the condition He had taken up, never to take it up again, and He took up another condition. Chapter 9 takes us off the ground on which He was in the condition of flesh and blood. The blind man was secured by the Lord as cast out of the synagogue. The Lord says to him, “Thou, dost thou believe on the Son of God? He answered and said, And who is he, Lord, that I may believe on him? And Jesus said to him, Thou hast both seen him, and he that speaks with thee is he. And he said, I believe, Lord: and he did him homage” (John 9: 35 - 38). That means that, in principle, he was off the ground of the world where Christ was according to flesh. What I had in mind was the fact that Christ had to die, but not on His own account, death was never imposed upon Him; it was His own act but a necessary act if we were to have part with Him. That condition had to be laid down, not only was atonement accomplished, but that condition was laid down, that He [p. 179] might enter into another condition. Chapter 9 means an exit from the world, for though God was more or less complacent because Christ was in it, it had become manifest that He must terminate that condition; faith follows that. The blind man follows, he worships the Son of God on that other ground. The Lord then proceeds to speak about the flock, in view of this section.
LM I should like to go back for a moment to “I in them”. Is that similar to Paul’s prayer in Ephesians 3, that the Christ might dwell in our hearts by faith?
JT Christ, as the term applies to Him in Ephesians 3, is in heaven, it is by faith. The position is apprehended in our souls, Christ dwells in our souls on the principle of faith. John 17 would support that, but the element of faith is not the point there. The point is that the Lord has made the Father so known, His love is in us, and Christ is in us in consequence as the Object of our affections.
LM Is that something more than faith?
JT It is something in us by the Lord’s action in making the Father known. Chapter 17:6 says, “I have manifested thy name”; the last verse of the same chapter says, “I have made known to them thy name”; that is a deeper thing, the service of Christ is of a deeper nature. I should like to know if we are following what I have spoken of as to chapter 9 — for many say, What a wonderful time it must have been for those who were with Jesus when He was down here in the flesh. It was a wonderful time, but it was not as wonderful a time as this.
LM We have not laid hold of it so that we can take account of Him as Son of God?
JT He is in a new condition, and that describes what we shall be: “We shall be like him for we shall see him as he is”, not as He was, but as He is.
EJF According to Romans 1 His resurrection [p. 180] was the attestation to what He was as Son of God. That was God’s attestation of Him. Is that how it is stated?
JT That is how believers come into it. Peter had a revelation, and Paul had a revelation in regard of the Son, but what is presented in the gospel is neither Peter’s revelation nor Paul’s, but Christ “marked out Son of God in power, according to the spirit of holiness, by resurrection of the dead” (Romans 1:4). That is the public testimony that believers come into.
EJF I brought this point up in a reading and it was thought that He was proved to be Son of God by the resurrection of Lazarus, and that that was what was referred to in Romans.
JT It is plural, “resurrection of the dead”, but it is His own resurrection as much as others. His own is the greatest witness, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up” (John 2:19). After He was risen from the dead the disciples understood that, and other Scriptures as well. What believers need to understand is not simply that that Person is the Son of God, but that there is power with Him. We need that power, not as an historical fact, but as it is presented in the gospels.
CAC What relation has feet-washing to all this?
JT I thought it was an introductory service of the Lord, a most touching service, and incidentally indicating how great a necessity these chapters are if we are to have part with Him. Chapter 9 must be understood in order to understand this last application of the idea of purification, the feet-washing. It is to take us on to new ground.
C Would you say that what you are referring to in chapter 9 is parallel to the truth of new creation?
JT Yes. That is how it stands in 2 Corinthians 5. The chapter helps us in regard to John 9: the apostle says, “So that we henceforth know no one according to flesh; but if even we have known Christ according to flesh, yet now we know him thus no longer. So if any one be in Christ, there is a new creation” (2 Corinthians 5:16,17).
CAC The washing all over of chapter 13 would be seen in figure in chapter 9, would it?
JT I think that is right.
CAC I should like to be more clear as to how the feet-washing stands in relation to that in a practical way with us.
JT I think if the truth of chapter 9 is understood, the bearing of chapter 13 is clear. The thought of defilement is not mentioned in chapter 13, not that I would exclude it, but it is a more spiritual thought than mere washing to remove defilement. It has often been pointed out that the persons — the disciples — were ceremonially clean. We assume it was the Supper here, and undoubtedly it was, therefore they would be ceremonially clean. If that be so the point would be to transfer them on to new ground; what had been legally right before, was not great enough now. It says in chapter 13:3, “Jesus, knowing ... that he came out from God and was going to God”; the Lord was going out of the world and going to the Father. How did He go to God? Through death, and that death implies a change of ground; He was no longer on old ground and we are to join Him on new ground; it is not Christ here in this world, however wonderful He was, but Christ in another condition in another world. We are to apprehend Him thus, and have part with Him thus.
CAC Is feet-washing a continuous service in view of the maintenance of that?
JT That is the moral value of it for us if we are to have part with Him on new ground where He is. What is He doing? What is He occupied with? Chapters 14 to 17 disclose much to us; we can [p. 182] understand what we are to be engaged with. He wants us with Him and if we are to be with Him it is a necessity that we learn how to get on to new ground.
H In doing this for each other they were to help each other?
JT If we are to help each other in that way, we ought to learn the importance of the water of purification in John. It has a great place in John, he tells us that it comes from the side of Christ; he speaks of it in chapters 2, 3, 9 and 13, and also in his epistle. If we are to be of service to one another we must understand these washings, the use of the water of purification in this gospel. I do not believe that many of us understand the new position — not that I am saying that I understand it — but I see that it is greater than what Christ was here, that is the heavenly order of things. How many of us have enquired as to the anointing of the blind man by the Lord in chapter 9? Why should the clay that the Lord made have to be washed off? That was not impure.
CAC I think that throws great light upon it. The man had to be washed from that which really typified Christ after the flesh, not from something wrong in himself, nor from a defect in the eye, but from the ointment of mud put upon it.
JT That is what brethren ought to look into and see whether they understand. The Lord expressly says, “Neither has this man sinned nor his parents”. Having said that He goes on to make ointment with clay from His own spittle. You might say it was holy, coming from the Lord; why should that have to be washed off? Every christian should understand that, and answer in his soul why that should be washed off.
CAC This does not belittle the greatness of the incarnation at [p. 183] all.
JT I think the incarnation was necessary to carry out the counsels of God.
EJF The condition only was changed?
JT The Lord did not change as to His Person, but as to the condition He took up; John tells us that He came by water and blood, that means that He had in mind to effect cleansing; the higher service of the water would be the removal of this mud that He made; it has to be understood. The man’s eyes open to see a Man in another condition, yet the same Person, “Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee”. It points to another condition.
T Would the transfiguration on the mount go as far as what you are saying?
JT The Lord was transfigured on the mount: what does it mean? It says, “As he prayed the fashion of his countenance became different and his raiment white and effulgent” (Luke 9:29), that points to another condition, what He has entered on now. That condition is to describe ours, “As he is, so are we” (1 John 4:17).
LM Is it similar to what the Lord said to Mary, “Touch me not”? He wished her to get clear of the old condition and be brought into the new condition.
JT Not only that, but He had not then ascended to His Father. His ascension has to be noted, though it does not appear in this chapter. In chapter 20 the ascension brings out the exalted nature of the new relationship. Sonship applies to Him in incarnation as much as now. The Father’s voice was, “This is my beloved Son”. “The holy thing also which shall be born shall be called Son of God” (Luke 1:35). He was the Son then, as much as now.
H Does that include what we are now speaking of?
JT I think it does, “We know that the Son of God has come” includes what we are speaking of.
[p. 184] Ques Is it the same thing as the second Man out of heaven?
JT It is more the thought of the last Adam, the last Adam is a quickening spirit. The idea of Christ’s sonship links on with deity, as in incarnation the idea of sonship suggests that He is God; John brings that out. The second Man is out of heaven, that is the idea of the kind of manhood; it is not of the earth, it is of heaven. The difference between the last Adam and the second Man is, the last Adam is more on God’s side, the second Man is on our side, but still the thought of sonship is carried on to our side too. Primarily the thought of sonship denotes that the Lord is on God’s side, and great enough to represent God, but the thought is also carried on to our side, but not in John. In John’s gospel he never calls us sons, he calls us children. Paul brings out the subject of sonship on our side, but sonship on God’s side is mainly in John.
CAC What you said about His being called Son of God is very important; it involves that He is a divine Person.
JT That is never applied to us. John makes that quite clear.
CAC The Lord’s sonship is unique as involving deity.
JT Paul takes up the application to us on the ground of revelation. “God ... was pleased to reveal his Son in me” (Galatians 1:15,16). He develops sonship as applicable to us.
EJF Paul helped in that way. Was the fact that he had not known the Lord after the flesh an advantage in connection with his ministry?
JT God was pleased to use a man like that. I do not suppose he knew the Lord after the flesh; he was taken up after the testimony of the gospel was presented. That is what marks him; he announced Jesus as the Son of [p. 185] God.
LM Would you mind saying a little about chapter 14:20, “In that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you”? Would that be consequent on feet-washing as well?
JT “That day” would be the Spirit’s day. “I am in my Father” would mean that He was in the Father’s affections, and we are in His affections. We are in Him and He is in our affections in that day; that is the present time; we know the blessedness of that now.
T Would chapter 13 not be to remove defilement?
JT I remarked that I would not exclude defilement from feet-washing, but I mentioned that the disciples were ceremonially clean at that time. They were sitting with the Lord at table, and He said, as it were, ‘This is not good enough, our present setting is not good enough, there is something beyond it. You need this service to enter on that’. That is the new ground that the succeeding chapters open up to us. He leaves after having said these things. Chapter 17 opens with, “These things Jesus spoke, and lifted up his eyes to heaven and said, Father”. I think He would lead us on to that ground that He was on in saying, “Father”.
C Would not the significant thought in feet-washing be love, He would bring us to be at home in the conditions of love?
JT I feel that if the Lord does it, it is final. He has left us an example to do it.
C What I had in mind was that we think of it as a customary thing, and hence we do not see the beautiful setting of it.
JT Why did it not happen before they sat down? The Lord “rises from supper”. It was wonderful to sit down with Jesus in chapter 12, but there is not a word about feet-washing there. Now He sits down at supper in chapter 13; what a wonderful supper it was because the Lord of glory was there! But still [p. 186] that was not just what He had in mind, it does not go far enough, there was something beyond it. He rises from supper; they were already there at the table at supper.
C Does that act on His part link on with what was said about Him?
JT It links with what He was about to say in the succeeding chapters; not what He had said, but what He was about to say. This links on from chapter 12; He made no provision for them before sitting down, but while supper was proceeding He did this. What had He in mind? Something different.
Ques The Lord interrupts what they had been enjoying hitherto?
JT The Lord would say, ‘You have had a good meeting, but there is something more’. We are too easily satisfied; our understanding is not much as to what there is, but there is something more.
Ques Did He want them to rise with Him?
JT No. In view of the new dispensation coming in they had to learn that there is something greater than what they had. Let us not be satisfied with what we have got, there is something beyond this. The Lord was sitting down in His robes, then He rises from supper, and lays aside His garments, and does this, then He sits down again after having taken His garments and tells them what He has done, and adds, ‘Now you are to wash one another’s feet’. He corrects Peter, He said, ‘If I do not wash you, you can have no part with Me’. Peter might have replied, ‘I am sitting in the meeting, and have had part with Him already!’. But the Lord meant something else. In chapter 17 we read, “That the love with which thou hast loved me may be in them and I in them”, that is the most exalted kind of love, but that was not said as to what they were going on with in chapter 13. There is no question about their fitness [p. 187] for the place, but in the midst of the meal this question is brought in. Why? That is what often happens in the midst of our meetings, when we come together for the Lord’s supper. In the middle a movement arises of something greater, something beyond us.
Ques Would feet-washing correspond with the mount of Olives?
JT It would synchronise with it. The mount of Olives according to Luke and John was His retreat. In the day He was in the temple and at night He went to the mount of Olives. The spiritual meaning obviously is that that was His place alone, but He said, ‘I do not want to be here alone’, “Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die it abideth alone” (John 12:24). The movement to the mount of Olives means that we are moving to His place as Son; feet-washing is necessary for that.
CAC Would you connect all this with the service of God? I think many of us have looked at these chapters more in the light of privilege. Would you distinguish between privilege and service or would you blend them?
JT I should blend them. In the chapters which follow the Lord has in mind to lead us to His own place. He says, “Father”, then He goes on to say, “This is the eternal life, that they should know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou host sent ... And now glorify me, thou Father, along with thyself, with the glory which I had along with thee before the world was”. Verse 3 gives us the great general position, and verse 5 brings us on to a new line. It is a wonderful thing to bring that in there; it is no question of administration, it is His own thoughts that are recorded.
CAC Have you in mind that it is in service on this line that we minister to the pleasure of God the Father?
[p. 188] JT Exactly.
CAC In speaking of privilege we think of what we come into, our gain and joy. If we introduce the thought of service, I understood that you had in your mind that there should be that which should minister to the divine pleasure.
JT That is what I thought we might see in the Lord’s lifting His eyes to heaven; He looked upward to the Father and said, “Father”. John does not lead us to the thought of Abba, Father, but the Lord said, “Father”; evidently that was heard; then He sets out the administrative position, He says He would like to be glorified. The next thing is, “I have manifested thy name to the men”. Now He comes down to us, He says, “Holy Father”, that has to do with His disciples and us; then He leads on in a most wonderful way to “Holy Father”, “Righteous Father”. Next He speaks about our being sanctified as He is sanctified (verse 19). He ends up with not only that He manifested the Father’s name to the men, but He made it known to the end that the kind of love that He knew so well and enjoyed on the mount of Olives — that love should be in us and He in us. When we reach that point we are ready for the service of God, He has a free hand now. He leads us to the Father; that is what you get in John 17.
Ques Would you tell us what “part with me” is?
JT In this way we have been speaking of, it involves new ground. What I think is so sorrowful is that the brethren (I do not want to blame) are not following on this line, they are not attentive to what the Lord is bringing to their attention. We want to get on to new ground, the ground of the mount of Olives; that is His place, His retreat. The disciples went there, He did not lead them there, they went there. On the mount of Olives His leading begins.
EJF Is the movement in faith?
JT Faith must be present with us. As soon as [p. 189] you hear a person saying Father, or Abba, Father, in the power of the Spirit of adoption, then you are on the mount of Olives, the Holy Spirit moves there. Faith sees the position and takes the place in the power of the Spirit.
CAC The one who says Abba, Father, or Father, must be equal to it, would you say?
JT He says it by the Holy Spirit, “a spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father” (Romans 8:15).
CAC It is worthily said.
JT Yes, you feel there is power in it. We are ready to move now, they moved to the mount of Olives. If somebody says, Abba, Father, in the Spirit of adoption, we do not want to go back to Jerusalem again, we do not want to go back where we came from. The Lord’s supper was celebrated in Jerusalem, and that is where He died. The mount of Olives is another place, we want to get into that living realm in the Spirit of adoption, that leads on to the service of God.
T Is verse 24, “Where I am they also may be with me”, the thought?
JT That gives you warrant for taking ground with Him. It is His thought that you should be with Him; that is literally future, but it gives you warrant for taking heavenly ground. It is the Lord’s mind for you, Ephesians 2 is the same thing, He “has raised us up together, and has made us sit down together”. The movement to the mount of Olives leads to that — the saints being together on heavenly ground. The Holy Spirit says, Abba, Father; that is the ground to keep on, and we should not go back to hymns addressed to the Lord in relation to the position in Jerusalem.
Ques What is the meaning of the last clause of chapter 14, “Rise up, let us go hence”?
JT It means a changed position. Chapter 15 is based on the public position of [p. 190] fruit-bearing.
CAC Would you say a word as to the difference there may be between the knowledge of the Father’s name as spoken of at the end of the Lord’s prayer in chapter 17, and the knowledge of the Father according to the sermon on the mount?
JT In the sermon on the mount it is “Our Father which art in heaven”.
CAC Do not many believers know something of the Father in that sense?
JT They do, and are content to leave it that way. It is very blessed to know He cares for us, but what we are speaking of is not simply that He is our Father in heaven, but that we are there too.
CAC I thought it was important to distinguish between the two, because so many use the term Father, and even the words ‘Abba, Father’, but you find that they use these terms in relation to God’s fatherly care over them in their circumstances down here. That is not what you had in your mind?
JT What I think helps is the Son’s place. What was His place? The mount of Olives; He went there. You never find Him at Jerusalem at night. One said to Him, “Where abidest Thou?”. He replied, “Come and see”. (John 1:38,39) We have to come and see where He dwells.
C “I have made known to them thy name, and will make it known”. Is that a continuous service of Christ?
JT He alludes to chapter 20. It is not that there is anything more now than there was, the full thought is already out, the full revelation of the Name is out, but we are brought into it. The service of the Spirit is to maintain us in that; it may be continuous in that sense.
Ques Would you link our coming together with the words, “I have declared unto them thy name”?
JT It must be borne in mind that this is something new.
[p. 191] H When we come together on Lord’s day morning are there not three aspects of love that engage us in divine order? The love of Christ, the love of God in the new covenant, and the Father’s love?
JT Exactly. The love of Christ for the church, the covenant love of God for His people — it was not made with us, it was made with the house of Israel and Judah, nevertheless we come into it — then the Father’s love wherewith He loved the Son, that is in us too. This latter is evidently the most exalted form and brings us to heavenly ground, and makes us equal to heavenly ground.