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THE SPIRIT

JT I am thinking of the place the Spirit has, first as the anointing, bearing on the public position of the saints, and then as the power for worship, for access to the Father. Perhaps a consideration of the Spirit in these two relations may help us in this meeting. What may be observed is that, as the saints come together in assembly, what precedes or transpires may all be regarded as in the power of the anointing, even to the posture of the saints, how we sit together, and what may be said in the way of announcements or information. The whole tabernacle was anointed, and the position of the tabernacle in the wilderness corresponds with this epistle, so that all is to be under the anointing. Nothing is common, nor should anything necessary to be done divert us or interfere with us spiritually. The Lord has been helping the brethren as to this side of the truth, and it is linked up with the position of the assembly in a given place or in the world generally, that the assembly in a given place is called God’s — God’s assembly, and it should lack nothing in accord with God. Then, on the other side, the worship or approach to God even is shown to be in the Spirit. Philippians 3:3 says that we “worship by the Spirit of God”; Ephesians 2:18 says that we have access through Christ “by one Spirit to the Father”; and Romans 8:15 says that by the Spirit we cry, “Abba, Father”; Galatians 4:6 says, “God has sent out the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, Abba, Father”. So that, I believe, the Lord would help us as to the place the Spirit has as in the assembly as convened from the outset. He is not presented as coming to it; He is there from the outset, and He is there as available for worship.

EJMcB ^[p. 317] I was wondering if you had in mind that every detail in a local company would be spiritual in its character.

JT I was thinking of that. We are prone to think that some things are common, whereas they are not. Of course, there is the idea of what is clean and holy, and what is most holy, but the anointing is to pervade or mark everything in the assembly as convened; all is to be regarded as holy. Sometimes, perhaps, it may be thought that the announcements are ordinary or common, whereas they are not. I understand they should be in the power of the anointing, and in their place. The reading of letters of commendation has its place, but in any case it is not to divert us but rather remind us of the general unity of the assembly.

EJMcB Then is your thought that that carried on in a spiritual way would lend power to the access to the Father in the light of worship?

JT Yes. There is a dignity attaching to it that takes it out of the range of ordinary religious gatherings. The anointing gives it that distinction, and the brethren, I believe, should hold themselves in that way. The Spirit operates in relation to our intelligence and our faith. It is well to be reminded that faith is the principle of our gathering, and we are addressed as intelligent persons in view of gathering in assembly, so that the position is that we are there in faith and as knowing what is to be done, and that it is to be done in faith, and thus the anointing enters into it.

Ques What is the object in view in the anointing? Is it the expression of God, or something for God?

JT One thought is that it is a definite committal to the position. The holy anointing oil was carefully compounded. It was figuratively the spirit of Christ, and I should say of a suffering Christ, that is, the ^[p. 318] outward position is governed or pervaded by the spirit of a suffering Christ. In the ingredients, the myrrh is the first mentioned. There are others, of course, but myrrh seems to be the leading thought. It is, as it were, God requiring that what He has found in Christ as Man here is to pervade or characterise the assembly, so it is called in these verses, “the Christ”, the anointed organism: “So also is the Christ”, alluding to the body, that there is that to which God can (at least, in early days, He did) commit Himself as His assembly just as He committed Himself to Christ openly from heaven.

FWK The anointing would bring in holy feelings and sensibilities, and they would find expression in the way things are done.

JT Hence the brother giving out the notices has in mind that he is not doing anything common; it is a sacred service.

PHH What is connected with the anointing in Exodus 40 is the word ‘hallow’. It says, “And thou shalt take the anointing oil, and anoint the tabernacle, and all that is in it, and shalt hallow it, and all its utensils; and it shall be holy” (verse 9). Would you mind saying a little about the hallowing in connection with the anointing?

JT That would mean it has taken on a holy character which should find response in our intelligences as we sit together, that we have taken on a holy character. I believe our intelligence enters into that, and the Spirit operates in us according to our intelligence. It helps you to recognise, first of all, and then to realise in whatever measure that you are held, that the saints are hallowed. The position takes on a holy dignity in that way. It enters into the way we hold ourselves minutely, and even as to our bodies, our position and movements, that we have taken on that holy dignity of being hallowed by the power of the anointing. It is not theoretical, but I ^[p. 319] believe our intelligence and faith enter into it, and the Holy Spirit operates in us and gives us feelings according to the light, the intelligence and the faith we have, so that God is identified with us. It is God’s assembly. The anointing therefore, as you will observe, is first of the tabernacle, and then its utensils, and then the priesthood. That is, you have the great general thought, the principles of gathering, the saints viewed in that way, for they are the material. That is the point in this chapter; we “being many, are one body”. We are acknowledged in that way, but then also anointed as persons who have to say to God. We have to look at ourselves as we sit down together as the tabernacle, and then to look at ourselves and hold ourselves as priests. That is, in a dual kind of way, provision is made in those verses, first the tabernacle and what was in it, including the altar — what is public — and then the priests. So that the position becomes extremely clear and simple, and yet all was hallowed and God can identify himself with it. I do not know whether we have ever thought very much of ourselves as moving from our houses to the place of gathering as material. The saints are the material viewed as the tabernacle and are anointed, but then, we are also priests in speaking to divine Persons; that is the next thing — the anointing of the priests.

EJMcB Does that indicate that it requires more spiritual power to take up the priestly side?

JT I suppose it does. The saints, viewed as material, are more negative, you might say, and yet in the same chapter, that is, Exodus 40, as we have often noticed, as each part is in its place, it is functioning. That does not mean that I am speaking; the principle is that I have a place to fill in the organism, and I am functioning in it, just as members of one body are all fulfilling their service as each is in its place.

^[p. 320] EJMcB In that way, if one is speaking, morally all are speaking.

JT Exactly.

Ques Would what you say enter into the true thought of assembling together?

JT It does. The saints, from the time they leave their places — “the dwellings of Jacob” — are under the eye of heaven; their footsteps are noted, and the sense of that would affect us as to how we behave ourselves on the way to the meeting. It is a matter of supreme importance to heaven that those feet are wending their ways to the assembly. “The Lord loveth the gates of Zion more than all the dwellings of Jacob” (Psalm 87:2), but He loves the “dwellings of Jacob”. It is a question of comparison; the “dwellings of Jacob” are of great importance to God, but Zion is of spiritual importance.

Rem It is a great thing to come together according to chapter 11 “in assembly”.

JT What we are remarking now is to show how great the thing is, that what we are is material on the way to it.

WC Does the law of mutuality enter into that, as the psalm puts it, the way to hold sweet intercourse together?

JT Just so.

PL “I rejoiced when they said unto me, Let us go into the house of Jehovah” (Psalm 122:1). Does the psalmist hold himself in the light of the vessel?

JT It is manifest that he has his mind on heaven.

PL And then I wondered, in the same psalm, “Whither the tribes go up”, as was their custom, if we get there the Ephesian view that you have referred to, the thought of access.

JT That is the next thing; the tribes went up. Of course, the allusion would be to the set feasts of the year. What pleasure would be afforded to Jehovah ^[p. 321] as they started out from the different tribes, some taking a long journey and others a shorter! He would find pleasure in all their movements as they went up. But then, as reaching Zion, the next thing is approach to God; they were to appear before Him.

FWK The ascent by which Solomon went up to the house of Jehovah was no doubt greatly dignified.

JT It affected the queen of Sheba, and that would be a lead for us: “His ascent by which he went up to the house of Jehovah” (1 Kings 10:5). That is a later thought, that the saints, as having come from their dwellings, are sensible of divine favour in them; even if we are unobservant, the pleasure is there; the footsteps of the flock are precious to God. And then, as seating ourselves, as taking our places, we have to bear in mind that it is a question of the tabernacle, and the tabernacle was anointed and all in it, including what was external.

PHH Was this thought in Paul’s mind in Corinth? It says, “Paul was pressed in respect of the word, testifying to the Jews that Jesus was the Christ” (Acts 18:5). Does the company of the saints in Corinth, known afterwards as the assembly there, link on with the fact that Jesus Himself was testified to as the Christ?

JT Just so, the Anointed; that was the testimony. He said to Paul, “I have much people in this city”. He had His heart on the people, every one of them known to Him, and yet perhaps not one of them converted; except, of course, Aquila and Priscilla who were there, they were all still, you might say, unconverted, and yet the Lord said, “I have much people in this city”, and “no one shall set upon thee to injure thee” (Acts 18:10). He would be with the apostle to secure those, and what pleasure it gave Him as one after another was secured! But the kind of preaching was the Son of God. Whilst it was the Christ that was announced, the Son of God was ^[p. 322] preached; whether formally, or whatever the form of words used, the Son of God was preached. The Lord had in mind that He should have the saints in that way, the knowledge of Himself as the Son, so that the fellowship was to be that, the fellowship of God’s Son. That is the principle that attaches to it, that the Christ is the public thing. Sonship is a question of what is inward, but the Christ is the public thing, the public character of the assembly.

Ques Is there something similar in Jeremiah 23, speaking of Judah being saved, “This is his name whereby he shall be called, Jehovah our Righteousness”, and then in chapter 33, speaking of Jerusalem again it says, “This is the name wherewith she shall be called: Jehovah our Righteousness”? The Lord’s body was the anointed body, and then the assembly is called “the Christ”.

JT Luke 4 presents the Lord in the synagogue of Nazareth as the anointed One. What delight there was in heaven in what was there, and then what an appeal to men! Although there was no outward result in the way of conversion, as far as we know, yet they marvelled at what they saw and heard; they never saw such movements in a preacher or minister before. That is the thing; that there should be something different; we are lifted above what is current in the religious world. They never saw anything like it before, and they “wondered at the words of grace which were coming out of his mouth”. The allusion is to the vessel.

EJMcB In referring to the anointing in this outward way, have you in mind the manner or deportment, the very character in which the brethren gather together, and then the way in which statements are made in assembly as they are together?

JT The anointing enters into all that.

EJMcB The apostle evidently refers to what they were, “led away to dumb idols”, and ^[p. 323] now he would have a company that were influenced by the Spirit.

JT See what intelligence there is, what speaking. So the first thing is, “No one can say, Lord Jesus, unless in the power of the Holy Spirit”.

EJMcB Why is the reference to “Curse on Jesus” spoken of first?

JT It alludes to what was possible at Corinth after the apostle left. In speaking of this, it is only fair that we should remember the Lord had called these people His own: “I have much people in this city”. They were not merely nominal christians, but really christians; in fact, he speaks of “babes in Christ”, so as to make that clear. They may have been only twenty-four months old — they could not have been more, and many of them much less — so we need not be surprised that such conditions existed in the gathering. Some of them might be so devoid of intelligence in the gathering that the devil might get a place. Some of us actually know something of that, of the devil having persons to speak for him, so we need not be surprised that there should be such a thing as that. The enemy had made a great effort with them, for there was conduct among them that would not be named among pagans. What is alluded to is the possibility of a demon being there as together, and saying, “Curse on Jesus” — a terrible thought. I suppose ministry is alluded to, persons standing up to address the saints, and one of them might be under the influence of a demon.

EJMcB Bringing the old system into the assembly of God.

JT That is right, making room for the devil. We are told not to give place to him, and the test is the Spirit as the anointing. No one saying, “Curse on Jesus” would be anointed of God.

LWH Is that why you emphasise our coming together in faith?

JT ^[p. 324] Yes. Many of us come together as people go to church, as we say, just dress and prepare for the meeting and walk along looking at what we see with unhallowed eyes, and, of course, when we get to the meeting we are not much above the level of ordinary religious persons, ordinary church-goers, whereas the thought is we should come out of the “dwellings of Jacob”, that is, clean places where God has a place, and our movements on the way have in mind that we are material, so to speak, for the tabernacle, and our deportment should be in accord with that, so as entering into the room and taking our places there is dignity attached to us, and we are able to hold ourselves from the outset as linked together in one body. The organism ought to be in mind, because the Spirit operates according to the way we hold ourselves, according to the intelligence and faith we have.

JJ Would that be the true thought of assembling, coming in that way?

JT Yes. The expression in chapter 11: “when ye come together in assembly”, is a very great expression. The article is not there before the word ‘assembly’, so what is meant is attitude of mind, that I am not coming into something, but I am the something myself in principle. So that I hold the saints in my mind in that way.

NKM Does faith enter into this? You have expressed the need of our coming together primarily on the principle of faith.

JT It does. Of course, we are to walk by faith at all times and not by sight, and when we are assembling it seems to me it should be a matter of great consequence how we hold ourselves, so that as we enter into the place and sit down it is a real thing and that gives room for the Spirit.

WC Are you connecting the thought of ^[p. 325] the tabernacle with the assembly convened, or does it go on when the saints are not together?

JT You hold yourself as of it, and that is where the fellowship comes in. In chapter 10, it is when we are not convened, how we hold ourselves in relation to our brethren when we are not in each other’s view, that is, when the tabernacle was taken down and carried in the wilderness. Of course, what we are speaking of did not enter into this, but when it was taken down it was to be put up again.

WC So there are three positions, the “tents of Jacob”, and then the tabernacle in connection with the carrying, and then the tabernacle set up.

JT That is how it stands. The tents of Jacob were each in their place, a certain distance from the tabernacle. The suggestion is very beautiful, the Lord looking out from His place within, according to Leviticus, to see His people coming. How delightful they were to Him! Alas, we have to own there was very little of it apparently, but still there was that. The Lord led the way in that; the Psalms indicate that He knew how to approach the house of God.

AWP Are you suggesting that God only can appreciate the movements of leaving the tents of Jacob?

JT I think He does supremely. I like to see the brethren as they come. What can be more delightful on the streets than to see the brethren moving towards the assembly? I think it is very fine. Think of the dignity that attaches to them, but do they hold themselves in that dignity as they move along the streets?

PHH Is Simeon an example of it, coming into the temple in the Spirit? Would that cover what you are alluding to, as to literally coming to the meeting?

JT Anna came up too. She did not have to kneel down to get her spirit right. Years back the ^[p. 326] brethren knelt down to get themselves right — whether it was borrowed from the church, I do not know — but Anna did not have to do that, nor did Simeon who came in the Spirit.

PL So in Luke 24:52 it says, “And they, having done him homage, returned to Jerusalem with great joy, and were continually in the temple praising and blessing God”. Would that be the thought?

JT Quite so. If you take Luke’s account in the Acts, the Lord is said to have gone up from Olivet, and they returned to Jerusalem, and then we are told how far it was — a sabbath day’s journey. I suppose the allusion might have been to the journey from the “dwellings of Jacob” to the tabernacle. What delight there would be in heaven as Jesus had gone up in those movements! Those feet were taking those dear people back to Jerusalem, and they entered into the city and went to the upper room. That was the outlook in Acts, alluding to the place of meeting, not the temple, not a religious building in Jerusalem, but an upper room. That is what has continued ever since; at least, it is to mark our meetings. What delight there was in heaven as those feet carried those people, their hearts full of Christ, wending their way back to the city, and we are told how far it was, and going to the upper room.

NKM Why does it say a sabbath day’s journey?

JT It would seem to be a short journey, limited, but enough to take you to God. The sabbath does not hinder you getting to God; it ought to help you to get to God.

PL Does the sabbath as a sign of covenant suggest that they would be governed by covenant conditions to do that journey?

JT Yes. It must have been a limited journey, but the sabbath should not prevent the saints from ^[p. 327] getting to God; there could never be such a thought as that.

JJ Would you connect Psalm 133 with the scripture in Corinthians or Ephesians?

JT I think it is more the Ephesian side, because you have the heavenly side brought in “Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!”. If we assume this to be concrete at any time it would be the Corinthian thought. It is not what men see exactly as the order of God in the assembly; it is brethren just, and what it is like. Of course, it would enter into our assembling, but the word ‘dwell’ is a question of love and brethren. But still, it enters into what we are saying, because you have the hem of the garment, which would mean that things are in order — they are not loose.

EJS Would the thought of baptism into one body by the one Spirit and being given to drink of one Spirit be on that line? Is the thought of unity there?

JT And satisfaction also — unity and satisfaction. “In the power of one Spirit we have all been baptised into one body”. That is done by the Lord, you might say, by the Spirit Himself but the drinking is our side. We have “all been given to drink of one Spirit”, meaning that we are satisfied in the unity. The drinking is brought in to suggest satisfaction, that we are not there looking at the clock in the hope of going home soon, but we are satisfied, and there is enjoyment in the position.

EJS Is that all contained in the thought of the anointing?

JT That is what is implied. In verse 4 you will observe, “But there are distinctions of gifts, but the same Spirit; and there are distinctions of services, and the same Lord; and there are distinctions of operations, but the same God who operates all things in all”. We have the great general position stated in those two verses, but the apostle, having stated the great general position of the Spirit, the Lord and God, then resumes what he had in mind, that is, to speak of the Spirit. That is the main thought in his mind, to speak of the Spirit, so that the anointing is the thing, as he goes on to say, “So also is the Christ”. It is very remarkable that we have the Spirit here as first mentioned as giving the gifts and then we have the gifts mentioned. There are nine distinct things mentioned and they would all have a public bearing. They are given for profit, it says in verse 7, and then it goes on, “For to one, by the Spirit, is given the word of wisdom; and to another the word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit; and to a different one faith, in the power of the same Spirit; and to another gifts of healing in the power of the same Spirit; and to another operations of miracles; and to another prophecy; and to another discerning of spirits; and to a different one kinds of tongues; and to another interpretation of tongues”. There is a large variety of gifts, all with a public beneficial bearing, giving the assembly a marvellous place publicly, the Spirit of God operating through these gifts. They are given, and it denotes the beneficent character of the thing; they are all in the sanctity and dignity.

PL Would it be like a city set upon a hill which cannot be hid — elevation in dignity?

JT What could be greater — if anyone had eyes to see — as you walked along the streets of Corinth and turned into this company ordinarily, than what one would see and hear? There was nothing like it in all the history of the Greeks with all their powers of speaking and oratory; there was never anything like this, and that is the idea, that God should set those in that very place, Corinth in Greece, a known place of human mental ability. Was there ever ^[p. 329] anything like it? Never, and that is the thought.

Ques Would it be the continuation of Christ here?

JT Exactly, not only in the powers that were there, but in the way things were done.

FWK So Peter and John going up to the temple to pray brought in the power of healing and blessing on the lame man, the manifestation of compassion and divine grace.

JT How completely God was identified with them, and not only with what was done, but the way Peter did it. It was at the Beautiful gate of the temple, but God had brought in something new. The Spirit of God loves to give us that bit, because it would bring in the dignity of the thing in one case, how it was done, and all in the name of the Lord Jesus, in the Spirit of the suffering Christ, the Nazarene.

Rem It would make us careful in the way local offices are filled.

JT It should. These things are not common; they are all to be in the power of the Spirit.

WC Could you help us as to the sequence of these things? Why is wisdom first?

JT The Greeks were famous for wisdom, but here is something they never had. It is enlarged upon in the earlier part of the epistle. It is “the word of wisdom”, a man getting up and speaking in this wisdom, the wisdom which God gives, the wisdom which the anointing affords.

WC This would come out in the setting of chapter 14 practically.

JT I think it would. It comes before the thought of miracles, as if God thought more of wisdom than of healing and tongues.

EJMcB Do you not think, God having much people in that city and Paul being the vessel by which they were brought to light and the Spirit the ^[p. 330] power, that they are adequate to the thoughts of God in the city?

JT Yes; you feel how God would provide for the Spirit. There would be self-judgment; there would be scope for the Spirit. That is why I spoke of faith and intelligence, for that is what governs these chapters, especially chapter 14, intelligence and understanding; indeed, the section is opened by that thought. What delightful times they would have, a brother standing up, as room is given for the Spirit, to speak a “word of wisdom”. We always need the “word of wisdom”. And then it goes on, “the word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit”, that one has knowledge. Knowledge is a very important matter, the knowledge of God and the knowledge of things in general bearing on God and His service, and that would be given out in the power of the anointing, and you would be impressed that those men who were speaking were gifts; they are called gifts here. It was God’s provision on earth for those dear people. The Lord had called them His people: “I have much people in this city”, and now they are furnished, as it says in chapter 1: “so that ye come short in no gift”, and those brothers standing up in this way would affect you: it is God speaking to me. They are gifts, and what a place it gives the Spirit as come.

JJ So would it be right to say that in Corinthians the body is given for the manifestation of the Spirit rather than the thought of the Head?

JT I do not think headship is much in view. It is to bring out the greatness of the Spirit, what He is here to us, and He is with us from the time we sit down together. He is not presented as coming to us; but Christ comes.

LWH So it is one and the same Spirit.

JT That is what is stressed here; there is only ^[p. 331] one Spirit.

EJMcB And prophecy is stressed as the governing factor of everything.

JT It goes on to knowledge, and then faith is the next thing, and then healing, and miracles, and prophecy, and discerning of spirits, and different kinds of tongues, and interpretation of tongues. You feel those people are so wonderfully provided for, as you have eyes to see and ears to hear, and the blessed Person who has done all this is actually among them. It is “in the power of the same Spirit” right through here. Prophecy would bring God in; the prophet standing up would impress you that God had something to say, it may be to your conscience. You might enjoy a word of faith, and so healings, and the like, but maybe there is something in my conscience that needs to be dealt with too, for there is not a moment but perhaps I need to be searched about something, and that is an important thing. In fact, I do not see how the others could go on without it, without God coming in in convicting power.

PL There is what is arresting in the anointing. It is said that they “wondered at the gracious words”. Is that a feature?

JT That is what is contemplated, what the Greeks would see in testimony. They never heard such persons speak as these. Well, what is the explanation of it? Some of them might be mere humble people outwardly, but it is in the power of the Spirit of God.

PHH It is very wonderful the way the Spirit is spoken of in verse 11 “dividing to each in particular according as he pleases”.

JT It is to bring out the sovereignty of the Spirit. We shall come to “as he pleases” later on, but this early part is to bring out the Spirit and His sovereignty.

Ques Why is faith spoken of as a particular gift in this section?

^[p. 332] JT It is not faith as we ordinarily speak of it, as in Romans; it is faith for certain purposes. God is pleased to give certain persons special faith, faith to do things, to remove mountains and the like. If we go before, as some do, there are obstacles to be removed, but there is faith given to do that.

JJ Could you give an example of that?

JT I suppose it marked the apostles. Peter standing up with the eleven in Acts 2 was not simply as an ordinary christian, but as a man who knew that the whole power of Jerusalem would be against them. The Lord had said to them, “If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say to this mountain, Be transported hence there, and it shall transport itself” (Matthew 17:20). That mountain would be the Jewish system, and Peter would know that. Though he spoke to them in beautiful terms, yet he would know well enough what was there, and what soon came out too, but he overcame on the principle of faith.

Ques Would Paul illustrate it when he said, “I believe God” (Acts 27:25)? He had faith for the moment that all would be well.

JT I think all the apostles had it, and Paul more particularly. What obstacles they had to overcome — we hardly realise it — after Jerusalem was overthrown in the souls of the saints, so that they went to the upper room instead of the temple. That would be the meaning of that. And when Paul approached the pagan world, what he had to overcome, but faith gave him power to overcome. It is a special thing for pioneers.

NKM Timothy is exhorted to be a model of believers and one of the ways is in faith.

EJMcB Does it not come out strikingly in the shipwreck, Paul evidently having this gift of faith?

JT He said, “For I believe God that thus ^[p. 333] it shall be, as it has been said to me” (Acts 27:25). He saw that they would be saved.

EJMcB When it looked as if everyone was going to be lost, be stood up and said, “There shall be no loss at all of life of any of you”.

JJ And would it not apply to a locality, that if something has to be done and one has this gift, the thing will be carried through?

JT The Lord supplies someone with faith for the thing, and it takes the form of leadership in that way.

Ques So would you include the care meeting in your thoughts in regard of these matters?

JT Of course, every saint should have faith. The dispensation of God is in faith, but there is a special gift spoken of here given by the Holy Spirit. Faith is the gift of God in general, but there is a special thing God gives in view of the testimony and obstacles to be overcome.

FWK So Paul saw the whole thing going to pieces before he passed off the scene, but his faith looked on to the completion of things.

JT Such a thing is to be borne in mind, that faith is given to us, for all this implies the Comforter, the Paraclete. There is not a thing that escapes His notice. The Spirit has watched over this meeting today, and we bring in the Holy Spirit who is here to help us in every detail, and so, when we come together, things are according to God and every one is to be in faith. The dispensation is on that principle, but then there are special obstacles to be overcome, and the saints generally perhaps could not cope with them, but there are those who can, and it is our wisdom to follow the lead they give.

AEC Does the apostle bring in this gift of faith and healing in Acts 20, in the case of the boy who had fallen down?

JT That is a good illustration of it. He says, “His life is in him”. How did he know his life was ^[p. 334] in him? It was not that he had brought him back to life again yet; it was faith, he knew it was in him. It was God going before, and the boy, of course, lived. The same things were seen in the Old Testament: “Who by faith overcame kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped lions’ mouths, quenched the power of fire ...” (Hebrews 11:33). There are greater difficulties to overcome today.

PHH Men like Gideon having his numbers reduced and reduced again would be an example of this.

JT Quite so. Faith does not reckon by outward appearances; faith sees things as they are before God. It enables one to go forward; you are assured it is of God, not going forward blindly, but in the distinct knowledge that God is in it.

Ques Is it like the woman in Proverbs who considers the field?

JT She considers the field and purchases it; there is no question of where she is to get the money. The purchase becomes easy if you decide on a thing.

PHH Do you think the drinking in verse 13, “All been given to drink of one Spirit”, would be a practical link between these external things and the Spirit helping us on the line of worship in the assembly?

JT That is the next thing. The public side merges into the inner thing, that is, approach to God, and I believe that approach is in the anointing. That is, we are all brought together in the sense that the Lord has put us together. Baptised “in the power of” is really a question of the Spirit here and not the letter as elsewhere. It is baptism “in the power of one Spirit”. “In the power of” is put in there to give the meaning of the preposition. It is the power of the Spirit acting, so that we recognise His sovereign action, and we are conscious that He has done something. Baptism by the Spirit is that He has done ^[p. 335] it; it is in His power. Well, the next thing is that we “have all been given to drink of one Spirit”. Whether the word is ‘made’ or ‘given’ — I suppose ‘given’ is more correct — it is your privilege to do it, as it is the privilege of the church to clothe herself with fine linen. You are doing it, and in doing it you are satisfied as a holy organism in which there is no complaint. Later on we have complaint, the foot saying of the hand, and so on, implying independency. But verse 18 shuts out all that. If the Spirit is given place, if I am subject, all independency is shut out. I do not isolate myself, I am in an organism and I do not wish to get out of it. I believe it is in that way we move, as it says, “Having sung a hymn, they went out to the mount of Olives” (Matthew 26:30). We move together.

EJMcB That was your thought in the expression, “For through him we have both access by one Spirit to the Father”.

JT That is right: “we both”, which suggests the idea of unity, that we move together: “They went out to the mount of Olives”. An examination of the facts shows that the mount of Olives was Christ’s place, where He went when He was in Jerusalem. There is no suggestion of a special place in Galilee, the point being that Jerusalem is the place of evil. It is where our Lord was crucified that the Supper is celebrated and where all this comes about, the Holy Spirit being here. So there is an organism brought into action. We may be together and the first action is the singing of a hymn; “they” sang it, it says. The Lord is not mentioned, as it were; it is the saints there together, and then they went to the mount of Olives. Now, in the mount of Olives we take a position that was already occupied by Christ. As the Son He is in that position, and we are in that position. That brings in scope, and I believe it is there that this verse in Ephesians fits. It is more Christ there: “And, coming, he has preached the glad tidings of peace to you who were afar off, and the glad tidings of peace to those who were nigh. For through him we have both access by one Spirit to the Father”. If He preached it was to bring us there, but it is in the power of the Spirit. For us the mount of Olives is not a physical thing but spiritual; it is in our minds as we take up the new place, and that place is already occupied by Christ. That is the position.

JJ Would you say why it says in the verse in Corinthians, “Given to drink of one Spirit”? Does it mean participation?

JT I think drinking suggests satisfaction; it is what refreshes and satisfies.

Ques How could you worship apart from satisfaction?

JT Just so. How could I worship if I am in a complaining attitude. God all in all is the great end in this epistle, and in Ephesians He is the great end before us, and the other two divine Persons are engaged in our approaching God the Father.

Ques Is worship taken into account in our access to the Father?

JT Clearly so. The Father seeks worshippers. The position is as clear as possible, and these scriptures are important as to taking the new place.

PL Does this witness to the great objective that God may be reached in worship?

JT I think so. These two holy divine Persons have taken a lower place all to the end that we might be brought to God and to worship Him, one of the Persons retaining the position of Deity in absoluteness. You find throughout that God is the end in all these matters.

EJS Is it important that in the second epistle the apostle stresses the anointing as being by God? “Now he that establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, is God” (2 Corinthians 1:21). Is that God in the three Persons of the Trinity?

JT Quite. You do not always need to say the three Persons because the Father is God: “To us there is one God, the Father” (1 Corinthians 8:6). He retains His place in absoluteness. The thought of God is never impaired in any sense by two divine Persons taking a place of service; God is always there. We have to bear in mind the inscrutable in speaking in that way. When the Son and the Spirit are operating on our side there is no need to bring Them in as Objects of worship. Of course, They are part of the Deity, but it is a question of the economy we are in. Let us be in it as it is presented to us, and not endeavour to compass it with our natural minds.

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