READINGS ON EZEKIEL (3)
[p. 216] READINGS ON EZEKIEL (3)
Ezekiel 9; Ezekiel 10: 18 - 22; Ezekiel 11: 14 - 25
JT I hope the Lord will help us to see in these scriptures the recognition of a remnant, which appears as the judgment is about to be executed. Those who form it are marked off as those “that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that are done”. The remnant appears in this way, and corresponds with the present time. The truth of the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus is fully set out, as already dwelt upon, and then the abominations are exposed, upon which the remnant comes into evidence as sighing and crying on account of these abominations.
AFM Who is typified in this man clothed with linen, who marks them off?
JT I think he would refer to the element of discriminating holiness in the sphere of profession. He is in the midst of those who come from the way of the upper gate, with the slaughter weapons. It says, “And behold, six men came from the way of the upper gate, which is turned toward the north, and every man with his slaughter weapon in his hand; and in the midst of them one man clothed with linen, with a writer’s ink-horn by his side; and they went in, and stood beside the brazen altar”. The brazen altar is taken account of as the place where sin is dealt with according to God. It is typical of the vicarious sacrifice of Christ; and God is not going to suffer anything inconsistent with that; so that if He is about to execute judgment in the profession of Christianity, it is not anything different from what He executed in the death of Christ. Christ bore the judgment on the cross, as we had it in chapter 4, and God is not going to allow that which brought Christ into death to prevail in the sphere of the profession [p. 217] of His name; therefore attention is called to the judgment of God in that the men with the slaughter weapons, and the man with the inkhorn stand beside the brazen altar.
AFM They are identified with it; there were seven men; I think you referred to the numeral seven as denoting complete exercise.
JT It is a spiritual exercise, and would comport with what has come about in our times; judgment of the abominable conditions, and the announcement that God is about to deal with them. But before they are dealt with, a remnant is marked off, but in relation to the brazen altar. If some are to be judged summarily, others are marked off as immune, because their sighing and crying on account of the abominations renders them immune. They are morally clear.
ARS Would you say that this remnant, not only discerns the abominations, but had the mind of God for the time as to what should be done? They must know what God would do.
JT The six men represent, I think, the intelligence as to what God is about to do. They have the slaughter weapons, and the seventh who is amongst them clothed with linen, being a priest, has the writer’s ink-horn, i.e., the means of putting down the names of those who should escape. A writer’s ink-horn, I think, would mean that the mind of God is fixed, the names are written down without alteration.
AFM “A mark upon the foreheads” — is that something public?
JT Just so.
DMR Would it imply that there are those to be found today with whom we can walk?
JT That is the idea of the brazen altar. The six men, and the man with the ink-horn, are taking account of that. The judgment of Christendom is revealed, teaching us what separation to His Name [p. 218] means, that is, all that is not in accord with the brazen altar. God would see that what I am doing is in keeping with what was done in the death of Christ.
AP Here it is men who execute judgment; in Revelation it is angels, why?
JT Well, I think it denotes a certain consideration on the part of God that it should be men. All judgment, it says, is given into the hands of the Son of man, and this inspires confidence, inasmuch as it is in the hands of One who would be the very last to execute judgment because He is a man; so that if judgment is executed, we may be assured the utmost limit of patience has been reached; and so these six, or rather seven men, comport with the book, for in it Christ is seen as the Son of man.
ARS Does the judgment here correspond with what Peter says: “For the time of having the judgment begin from the house of God is come”, 1 Peter 5: 17?
JT Yes, it does, as it says here, “begin at my sanctuary”.
AFM In Revelation 20 the Lord Jesus is on the great white throne. Having borne the judgment Himself, He is the most suited One to judge?
JT Quite.
AFM You would say that all who judge the evil existent stand related to the brazen altar?
JT The sighing and crying are of a piece with the brazen altar. I am judging evil as God judges it, you might say. So that the word is, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord withdraw from iniquity”, 2 Timothy 2: 19. Now, the name of the Lord involves that he has dealt with evil, and if naming it, I am in accordance with His mind, in separating from evil associations. It is taking sides with God, that is to say, being like one of the men at the brazen [p. 219] altar; announcing that I am in agreement with the judgment of sin, as seen in the death of Christ.
WLP Would the presence of evil associations call for a complete cleansing on our part?
JT In principle, as cleansed, it really means that His will is ruling instead of ours.
AR Would that imply coming into fellowship?
JT We cannot come into fellowship unless we are in accordance with the brazen altar. It is the testimony to His death and blood-shedding; so that the position of the brazen altar is most important because it is the witness to the judgment of God on sin borne in the Person of Christ; and God has not changed His mind at all, so that if conditions exist that are contrary to that, I have to withdraw.
AFM Or stay where the judgment is to be executed.
JT Yes.
AAT Is that a parallel with the judgment announced now?
JT Yes, so that the book of Revelation is the opening up of the mind of God in regard to the sphere in which the gospel is being announced. The assembly itself is first addressed, then we have the sphere in which the gospel is being announced and formally received. The book of Revelation announces the judgment of God on all that; but the One who announces it is the One who said, “I am ... the living one: and I became dead”, Revelation 1: 18. He became dead, that is the idea of the brazen altar. He is seen in Revelation 5 as the Lamb slain in the midst of the throne.
DMR Would you say that what is emphasised in this chapter is association as based on what you have just said?
JT Yes, and that the executors of the judgment came by way of the upper gate, that is to say, it is the judgment of God formally executed. Jude speaks [p. 220] specially of this. The mind of God had been foretold of these ungodly men, even as early as Enoch. It is not a late thing; the mind of God is fixed in regard to these conditions, and these six men are the executors of the judgment, coming down by way of the upper, or north gate; that is to say, the point of the compass which throughout Scripture denotes judgment.
WB-w And the glory is in accord with the brazen altar.
JT That is to say. God is here in the midst of all this, according to all that He is in Christ. He is still waiting, at the present time, so that it becomes a most interesting time; you have all these things grouped together at the present time. The announcement of coming judgment and its executors, and then discriminating holiness, taking careful account of every one who sighs and cries for the abominations, and withal, the glory of God in Christ is waiting upon man. These things appear in this ninth chapter.
AFM The glory lingers as if loath to go.
JT It is the patience of God at the present time; the glory is about to leave but it has not left just yet.
BTF Would you say that the remnant mentioned here would be the same as the remnant mentioned in the end of Malachi?
JT The same in character but earlier, in chapter 11, they are more distinctive, as we shall see, but here they begin to show themselves in sighing and crying; and God alone could tell who did this; sighing and crying would denote how they felt things.
ANW That is not a mark in the forehead.
JT I think that the Lord led the way in this. He sighed, and He cried, that is to say, He felt things; we too should feel things, and God takes account of this. The Lord wept over Jerusalem, and at the grave of Lazarus, He groaned; on another occasion He was angry, being distressed at the hardening of [p. 221] their heart. There was feeling in all that! The idea here is similar, we also are to feel things.
AJD Is that more for God than for man?
JT Yes. He reads the heart and hears the groans.
ARS The glory departing — would that correspond with the reproach in our day?
JT It corresponds with the Spirit ceasing to identity Himself with the public body of the profession; but the testimony remains, and is maintained by the remnant; it involves the presence of the Holy Spirit in the assembly; the glory will re-appear and be displayed when Christ and the saints return.
WB-w It has moved from the cherub, an indication that God has moved out.
DMR The display of the glory will be in accordance with the prophecy of Enoch.
JT Quite. You see how early the mind of God was disclosed in regard of evil. Enoch prophesied of these men of chapters 8 and 11; they were destined for this judgment. He saw the Lord coming with the holy myriads to execute judgment. We have here in these six men those who execute it; but then the patience of God is seen in the seventh, he had the ink-horn and was clothed with the linen.
AFM As well as sighing and crying for the abominations done, we find that Ezekiel was marked by intercession.
JT I think we may see in the saints that there is a right feeling; we do not wish the judgment hastened. We wish the coming of the Lord hastened, but we have no pleasure in the judgment. So Ezekiel says: “Ah, Lord Jehovah! wilt thou destroy all the remnant of Israel in thy pouring out of thy fury upon Jerusalem?” Now, here is a man with right feelings; he was immune from judgment, he had consideration and desire for the preservation of others. One cannot be with God unless one is sympathetic with those who are the objects [p. 222] of the judgment.
ARS I suppose Moses was an example of that, he said, “Blot me ... out of thy book”, Exodus 32: 32.
JM'D Would these feelings be seen in those that are gathered to the name of the Lord?
JT What you see is that God takes account of those who sigh and who cry, and then after Ezekiel intercedes, God graciously explains that judgment was imperative: the exigencies of the thing required that He should act thus; and so in chapter 10 we have the throne but God is not seen on it. The throne is there, and things must be in accordance with it; that is to say, I am attuned to the mind of God in the midst of all these things. In verse 2 it says, “He spoke unto the man clothed with linen, and said, Come in between the wheels”, not go in but come in; which means that God Himself has come down, and is in the midst of all these things, in His own consideration, even as He came down at the building of Babel. He would see the thing firsthand. In this instance he invites the man clothed with linen to come in between the wheels. What the prophet John saw in Revelation 1 was seven golden lamps, and in the midst of them, One like the Son of man. He is in the midst of them, so that He knows exactly and first-hand, what is going on.
Ques Would you kindly explain verse 6 of chapter 9? It says the ancient men were before the house.
JT It says, “Slay utterly the old man, the young man, and the maiden, and little children, and women”. That is to say, there is no discrimination, everybody is exposed; age is no barrier, and sex is no shelter; only one class was exempted, those “that sigh and that cry”.
AAT Jeremiah himself was characterised by sighing and crying.
JT He is called “the weeping prophet”, so that he represents the Lord in the depth of His feelings:
[p. 223] a great feature for the saints to be exercised about; what is needed is depth of feeling; we are so very superficial.
ARS The Lord Himself expressed it, when He said, “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets”, Matthew 23: 27. We find a depth of feeling on His part, there.
JT That is it.
AFM Your thought about chapter 10 is most striking, that God is not said to be on the throne, but down here in consideration of these operations. His interests are bound up in what we speak of as the wheels of His government; He Himself is operating them, and invites the man to come in between them.
JT That is, I think, a revelation, because the Lord, although in judicial garb, is down here with us; we have no throne in relation to the assembly, but He is in the midst of the seven golden lamps; it is a testimony to His condescension that He is amongst us. He is moving about in the sphere of profession, therefore nothing escapes His eye, and the evidence He has is first-hand.
D.M.R. Is that prophetic?
JT Yes. Revelation 1 contemplates the assembly on earth. In chapter 4 it is a new subject, and we have the throne, and One sitting on it. Not yet One from whom the earth and heavens flee away, for it is yet the day of grace. The throne is surrounded by a rainbow like an emerald, that is, green, meaning that it is God in His everlasting covenant with the creation, and that betokens blessing.
A.F.M. Life!
JT The colour of the rainbow is a suggestion of life; the throne in Revelation 4 is not the throne of judgment, but one pertaining to life. Life is brought into the creation; and then in chapter 5 we have the throne again, but the Lamb is in the midst of it as a slain one; so that the throne is favourable. If it [p. 224] has to act against sin, it is because there is no other remedy, but the meaning of the throne there is blessing.
AR So that the testimony in relation to the Seven Churches is not yet completed.
JT No. The Lord is still here moving in relation to them.
AFM Even when refused, as in Laodicea, He in grace, is on the outside knocking for entrance.
JT Yes, and the glory is still here. The point is to be in accordance with the glory, but at the same time we know that the judgment is imminent, it is about to be executed.
WLP Did you say that Christendom was still in the testimony?
JT The Lord is still here and walking in the midst of the seven golden lamps; that is. He is in the sphere of profession yet. That is what Revelation 3 teaches us.
JS In chapter 10 we have a sapphire stone, what do you say about that?
JT It says, “And I looked, and behold, in the expanse that was over the head of the cherubim there appeared above them as it were a sapphire stone”. What has come to me lately is that precious stones are seen in the creation, and are divinely in it, being intended for the reflection of the Creator; they have not light in themselves, but are designed to reflect light, so that it says of Satan, “Every precious stone was thy covering” (chapter 28: 13); meaning that he, being in such an exalted position, was to reflect completely the Creator. The blessed light of the Creator was to radiate from that being. Now, the same thing comes out in the heavenly city; the foundations of the wall were adorned with every precious stone; Revelation 21: 19.
AFM There is secured in the assembly that which fully reflects the light of God. Would you [p. 225] mind going back to the stones in the breastplate in Exodus? What do they represent?
JT Well, I think the Lord has the saints on His heart. It is like John 13, the light was in Him, it was a moment of wonderful light, as He moved at the supper table, and I think they were to reflect that: they were to reflect the light that shone there. Judas did not reflect it. It says, after the morsel Satan entered into him; there could be no reflection of the blessed light, that shone in Jesus, from him; but those that remained, in the measure in which they laid hold of what was there, reflected it. John leaned on His bosom, and correspondingly there was the radiating of the light of Christ in him. I think we have in the city of jasper, the assembly’s appearance as she comes down from heaven; whatever that may mean in itself, it is possibly the reflection of Christ, who came to do the will of God. As He came out, it was to do the will of God; “Behold, I come” (Psalm 40: 7); there would be in that Vessel One in whom every divine thought would appear; One who was entirely subject, and I have no doubt that the city corresponds, in the jasper, to that. Whatever the sapphire of our chapter may mean, it is distinctive, it is not judgment, but rather to reflect something of God.
Going on to verse 2, it is very touching that the Lord Himself is, as it were, in the midst of the wheels and He invites us into that position.
AJD What has He in mind in inviting us?
JT I think He meant that the wheels should influence us; they suggest movement.
ANW Paul told the Athenians, “He is not far from each one of us”, Acts 17: 27.
JT I think in 2 Timothy the believer is impressed with the power available as he is brought into things. You see in the wheels that which moves on to do the will of God; there is a power to effect the will of [p. 226] God; as you come into the midst of it, you understand it. In this tenth chapter the remnant is now in evidence, and the invitation follows to come into the midst of the wheels. You realise the power and that it is heavenly. The hand of the cherub dominates this chapter, there is nothing said about the ox in it. In the first chapter, we have the foot of a calf, because it has to do with the earth, whereas now we are in the presence of what is heavenly.
AFM As well as the face of a man, you have the face of a cherub.
JT It precedes the face of a man; and the face of the ox is not there. It is to bring out that the remnant is in evidence, and the power of God is moving, and in relation to what is heavenly.
ANW Still, they go straight.
JT The glory of Jehovah was gradually going up. In Stephen, it had gone up, meaning there is a heavenly order of things now. The glory had left Jerusalem and was in heaven.
AFM Is it an order of things in Christ Jesus?
JT Yes.
DMR A wheel in the midst of a wheel? What is the thought?
JT It means, I think, that various thoughts are worked out together, but all is in strict accord with the mind of God.
AM'N They all go straight forward.
JT Yes, they do. The whole of Christendom now is affected by the heavenly testimony. Chapter 11 brings out the heavenly. One sees the conditions in verses 1 - 13; a great thing to see, but in what follows the remnant comes to light; and what a heavenly touch there is to it.
AFM Would 2 Timothy 4 be suggestive of the wheels?
JT I think it would bring us into them, “Be urgent in season and out of season, convict, rebuke,
encourage, with all longsuffering and doctrine”. All that is to bring the servant into the system that God is using. Paul says, “I have finished the race”; he says later in that chapter, “The Lord stood with me, and gave me power, that through me the proclamation might be fully made”. Paul would preach, whatever the opposition; and was delivered from the lion’s mouth. You see there what God was doing.
AFM What does the fire in the man’s hands suggest?
JT Sympathy with God in His operations, I think.
AR Would that be brought to light in the remnant?
JT That is the thing. In the book of Revelation, the Lord, in speaking to Philadelphia, formally owns the remnant; He owns it too in Thyatira, but in Philadelphia it has taken on assembly character. In chapter 9 you have the sighing and the crying, but in chapter 11: 15. He says, “Son of man, it is thy brethren, thy brethren, the men of thy kindred, and all the house of Israel, the whole of it, unto whom the inhabitants of Jerusalem say, Get you far from Jehovah: unto us is this land given for a possession. Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord Jehovah: Although I have removed them far off from among the nations, and although I have scattered them among the countries, yet will I be to them as a little sanctuary in the countries whither they shall come”. Now, you see how the word ‘brethren’ comes in, and is repeated here: “Son of man, it is thy brethren, thy brethren”.
AAT How do you link that with the sanctuary?
JT You see, that is the idea, we are coming back to the beginning. The Lord says to Mary, in John 20, “Go to my brethren”; God desires, in the reviving of the truth, that we should lay hold of [p. 228] the family thought; so here, the word ‘brethren’ is repeated to emphasise it.
AR Does not it greatly add to our position that they come to light in this world in government?
JT Well, I think it is a most precious thought — that of “thy brethren”, which has come into evidence; the term has been connected with current principles in the world, but it directs the mind of the true believer back to John 20, and is of spiritual origin.
There are those, you see, in the end of that verse, that say, “Unto us is this land given for a possession”. There are those today who say that, the Hierarchy of Rome; they claim everything. But the Lord says, “Although I have removed them far off from among the nations, and although I have scattered them among the countries, yet will I be to them as a little sanctuary in the countries whither they are come”. That is most precious.
ANW ‘Little’ is another word in the letter to Philadelphia.
AFM “A little power”, Revelation 3: 8.
JT Yes, the word ‘little’ is called attention to; it suggests that there is no pretension at all. Those that claim power and rule are the ecclesiastical dignitaries; but God says, of the remnant here, “I will be to them as a little sanctuary”.
BTF Is it like, “Where two or three are gathered together”?
JT That would be a contrast to those who claim apostolic succession!
AFM One of them professes to personally represent Christ.
JT The pretension of these men! They claim everything.
AM'N There is not anything little about pretension.
JT No, indeed. Yet the Lord spoke of the disciples as a “little flock”, Luke 12: 32. Then He says, “Thus saith the Lord Jehovah: I will even gather you from the peoples, and assemble you out of the countries where ye are scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel”. Now we are coming into big thoughts, you see. “A little sanctuary” in the countries, is one thing; but it is another thing to be assembled. The light of the assembly takes us out of the little things of the public position, into the greatness of divine thoughts, so that while certain in Christendom claim everything now, God says, “Let no one boast in men; for all things are yours”, 1 Corinthians 3: 21.
AJD So that the activities and operations of God are set against these men?
JT Yes. He says, “I will even gather you from the peoples, and assemble you out of the countries where ye were scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel”; that is, typically we are coming into it all.
AFM That is Ephesians.
JT Yes.
Ques Is there any suggestion in connection with Ezekiel’s office or position about the invitation? He was invited to come in. In chapter 1 he is spoken of as priest; I suppose he is in sympathy with God’s operations, as such.
JT Quite.
BTF Would you say a word or so to help us on what the land of Israel represents for us now?
JT The epistle to the Ephesians, that is not little, but great.
ANW And that is coupled with a new heart.
JT What follows is, “And they shall come thither, and they shall take away from thence all its detestable things and all its abominations”. It is not separation, but taking things away. The Lord also says, “And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take [p. 230] away the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them a heart of flesh; that they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them; and they shall be my people, and I will be their God”. Can anything exceed that, as applied to our own position? We are changed inwardly and given a new heart.
JS That is the new covenant.
JT Quite so, and cannot be changed.
Ques Would you say a word in connection with the being in sympathy with God, and His relations towards us?
JT The prophet shows that he was in sympathy with God, but it is very beautiful to see how, whilst we accept the little things of God as scattered in the nations, we are gathered out of them in a spiritual way and assembled, and then brought into purpose.
ANW Were there not seven seals? I was thinking of the blessedness of these seven “I wills”.
JT It reminds you of the Lord; the leper says, “If thou wilt”, He says, “I will”, Luke 5: 12, 13.
AFM There is the “one heart”; what about that?
JT So that we are brought into the unity of the Spirit and the unity of affection. The unity of the Spirit, and of the faith are seen in Ephesians 4, these two things go together.
Ques I wanted to ask if the “little things” do not stand for unpretension.
JT God will not support us in any pretension at all, but we are led into Ephesians, and that is outside of this world, and the more we have part with Christ, the more we shall be in accord with these things.
AFM Do you think there is any reference in verse 18 to what we get in Ephesians 6 in regard to our struggle dealing with principalities and spiritual power of wickedness?
JT I think it emphasises that they are brought [p. 231] into accord with the testimony of God in regard to these abominations. He had spoken of what He would do, but now it is what they do; they shall come hither, and they shall take away all the detestable things thereof and all the abominations thereof from thence. It is a very fine tribute to the work of God, if we do it now.
WB-w The twenty-five men in the first verse, do they refer to the pretension of the present time?
JT Yes, just so.
WB-w They take a place at the east gate, the east being where the light comes from.
JT There are those who claim very great light now. Apostasy is making such rapid strides, that men are pretending to all kinds of things. I believe that what they call light is really the darkness of Asia creeping in.
AFM What about these two men in the midst of them?
JT They would be some notably wicked men.
ANW Why is the one heart and the unity given priority over the tender heart?
JT I think God works the thing from effect to cause, rather than from cause to effect.
ANW God’s object is unity.
JT Just so.